Chicken broth
October 10, 2023 3:38 PM Subscribe
I've been making chicken broth for years.
Sometimes I simmer a whole fresh chicken in water with some herbs, carrots, and celery and onion...other times I use a cooked rotisserie chicken. I've never decided which is better, or more correct...The only difference is the rotisserie one has more color to the broth...Any thoughts as to which os more popular or correct?
Sometimes I simmer a whole fresh chicken in water with some herbs, carrots, and celery and onion...other times I use a cooked rotisserie chicken. I've never decided which is better, or more correct...The only difference is the rotisserie one has more color to the broth...Any thoughts as to which os more popular or correct?
While we're talking about it... do you crack the bones open? I've read that exposing the marrow like this adds to the flavor
posted by falsedmitri at 3:44 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by falsedmitri at 3:44 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I will try cracking the bones open , good tip.
posted by Czjewel at 3:52 PM on October 10, 2023
posted by Czjewel at 3:52 PM on October 10, 2023
Possibly of interest: https://www.metafilter.com/146038/Consider-the-chicken
posted by bq at 3:57 PM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by bq at 3:57 PM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Whatever got as much fat, marrow, collagen and gelatin as possible. If you get rotisserie then include the fat of the chicken at the bottom of the container if you can (but it may have already dripped off due to the nature of rotisserie). It takes a long time (hours, unless you have a pressure cooker) to break down gelatin / collagen so pre-cooked chicken still isn’t cooked enough to give up the flavor/nutrition. So personally I’d just take a raw chicken with skin and sear it myself. Don’t forget to sear your onion and add bay leaves too.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:18 PM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:18 PM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
And Italian flat leaf parsley. There. You have my family secrets internet stranger
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:20 PM on October 10, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 4:20 PM on October 10, 2023 [20 favorites]
I like both!
I think the raw option can give you a clearer broth, which can be aesthetically pleasing. Although to get really clear I think your supposed to do a short summer, then dump the water and rinse off the bones before getting the stock going.
I also think stock from raw is less chickeny. That's maybe not as great as for a hearty chicken noodle soup, but I like it better if you want something like ginger or lemongrass to really come through. I'm also willing to accept that may all be in my head.
I do more with cooked though, since I save carcasses when I roast my own or get a rotisserie.
Nthing breaking open the bones, which is easier when they're cooked.
posted by ghost phoneme at 4:37 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think the raw option can give you a clearer broth, which can be aesthetically pleasing. Although to get really clear I think your supposed to do a short summer, then dump the water and rinse off the bones before getting the stock going.
I also think stock from raw is less chickeny. That's maybe not as great as for a hearty chicken noodle soup, but I like it better if you want something like ginger or lemongrass to really come through. I'm also willing to accept that may all be in my head.
I do more with cooked though, since I save carcasses when I roast my own or get a rotisserie.
Nthing breaking open the bones, which is easier when they're cooked.
posted by ghost phoneme at 4:37 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
As with all foods, the correct one is the one you like the best. If both of them produce broth you like, stick with making both! No need to worry about which one is "right".
posted by pdb at 4:38 PM on October 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by pdb at 4:38 PM on October 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
I've made stock with both raw and cooked chicken. Both were fine.
Rather than simmer a whole chicken, ask your butcher counter if they have chicken carcasses (that is, the remains of the chicken after the breast, legs and wings are removed.) It will not include guts, just muscle and bones. This is a good basis for stock.
When you get it home, cut it up into bits using heavy-duty scissors. Brown the bits in the stock pot with a little salt, remove, soften your onion and celery in the grease. Now add your water, bay leaf and a carrot, plus any other herbs you're using (I like thyme). And there you go.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:42 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Rather than simmer a whole chicken, ask your butcher counter if they have chicken carcasses (that is, the remains of the chicken after the breast, legs and wings are removed.) It will not include guts, just muscle and bones. This is a good basis for stock.
When you get it home, cut it up into bits using heavy-duty scissors. Brown the bits in the stock pot with a little salt, remove, soften your onion and celery in the grease. Now add your water, bay leaf and a carrot, plus any other herbs you're using (I like thyme). And there you go.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:42 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh no, you have triggered a special interest. Allow me to pontificate.
I'm always a fan of keeping the carcasses of roast chicken (once you've carved the meat off) in the freezer and using a couple of those to make stock. I personally don't like using rotisserie chicken for stock because I think they're over-salted, and I want to control & keep the amount of salt in my stock low for reasons that will become apparent. If you can pick up some chicken wings on sale, they're great for adding body; feet are even better if you can track them down (Asian markets and farmer's markets are my usual sources).
Definitely cut up whatever chicken you're using rather than putting a whole bird into the pot, the more surface area is exposed, the more gelatin gets into the stock, and more gelatin is (among) your goals. I'm told that making stock in the pressure cooker (or equivalent) makes for a gelatin-rich stock; I don't have one and can't verify that claim but see no reason to disbelieve it. A crockpot makes a great, clear stock, cooked overnight.
But here is the thing. Make your stock, with your aromatics (halved or roughly diced onion, carrot, celery, a few sprigs of parsley, a pinch of whole peppercorns). Strain it to remove all the solids. (Optional, but nice: Chill it overnight so the fat solidifies on top, remove.) Put it back on the stove, and boil uncovered until it is significantly reduced in volume. Put this reduced stock into ice-cube trays, and freeze. You now have little cubes of super-dense chicken stock which you can throw into anything. It's essentially a demi-glace, and is incredibly flexible. Add seasonings, including salt, to suit the use you're putting it to (garlic and ginger for wonton soup, herbs and cream for a quick gravy, saffron and lemon to braise chicken and potatoes, etc.). Hell, melt a cube or two in a mug and sip.
posted by pollytropos at 4:49 PM on October 10, 2023 [26 favorites]
I'm always a fan of keeping the carcasses of roast chicken (once you've carved the meat off) in the freezer and using a couple of those to make stock. I personally don't like using rotisserie chicken for stock because I think they're over-salted, and I want to control & keep the amount of salt in my stock low for reasons that will become apparent. If you can pick up some chicken wings on sale, they're great for adding body; feet are even better if you can track them down (Asian markets and farmer's markets are my usual sources).
Definitely cut up whatever chicken you're using rather than putting a whole bird into the pot, the more surface area is exposed, the more gelatin gets into the stock, and more gelatin is (among) your goals. I'm told that making stock in the pressure cooker (or equivalent) makes for a gelatin-rich stock; I don't have one and can't verify that claim but see no reason to disbelieve it. A crockpot makes a great, clear stock, cooked overnight.
But here is the thing. Make your stock, with your aromatics (halved or roughly diced onion, carrot, celery, a few sprigs of parsley, a pinch of whole peppercorns). Strain it to remove all the solids. (Optional, but nice: Chill it overnight so the fat solidifies on top, remove.) Put it back on the stove, and boil uncovered until it is significantly reduced in volume. Put this reduced stock into ice-cube trays, and freeze. You now have little cubes of super-dense chicken stock which you can throw into anything. It's essentially a demi-glace, and is incredibly flexible. Add seasonings, including salt, to suit the use you're putting it to (garlic and ginger for wonton soup, herbs and cream for a quick gravy, saffron and lemon to braise chicken and potatoes, etc.). Hell, melt a cube or two in a mug and sip.
posted by pollytropos at 4:49 PM on October 10, 2023 [26 favorites]
We gather up bones from cooked thighs/drums and toss them in the freezer and when we've got a couple pounds put them in the instant pot for 4 hours at high pressure. Pour through a strainer into jars, keep in the fridge. Perfect soup base: the uberstock.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:55 PM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:55 PM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I roast a chicken almost once a week. After eating what we want off the carcass, I make stock from it. Sometimes I freeze them first until I have multiple carcasses, sometimes I make stock with just the one carcass (I usually roast 4+ pound (2 kg) birds). I'll simmer one carcass in about 1.5 quarts/l of water for two hours, then add a quartered onion for a final hour (all with the cover on). I don't like adding the onion earlier, or much more plant matter at all, because it makes the stock too vegetal for my tastes.
This generally results in a relatively gelatinous stock. I've cooked a whole raw chicken or raw chicken parts in water to produce a stock and meat for various recipes. The result is clear and clean tasting, but not that robust because you have to shorten the cooking time if you want to avoid overcooking the meat. I think using the carcass of a roasted chicken (and some wings or feet if you feel like it) and cooking it for longer results in a more robust and gelatinous stock. Using a roasted chicken carcass also adds flavor from the roasting.
posted by mollweide at 5:07 PM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
This generally results in a relatively gelatinous stock. I've cooked a whole raw chicken or raw chicken parts in water to produce a stock and meat for various recipes. The result is clear and clean tasting, but not that robust because you have to shorten the cooking time if you want to avoid overcooking the meat. I think using the carcass of a roasted chicken (and some wings or feet if you feel like it) and cooking it for longer results in a more robust and gelatinous stock. Using a roasted chicken carcass also adds flavor from the roasting.
posted by mollweide at 5:07 PM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I try to use up a fair bit of a rotisserie chicken 1st, as I think the meat doesn't improve with simmering. I add the skin and any miscellaneous bits. Roasted skin does add more robust flavor. With longer cooking time, the cartilage will disintegrate and become gelatinous, and the marrow will come out. Cracking the bones makes sense. I carefully remove the bones and use the mush of skin and bits on the dog's food, and she is really on board. I am lazy about adding aromatics, as I will be adding them to my soup or risotto. I get about 2 quarts from a rotisserie chicken carcass.
posted by theora55 at 5:07 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 5:07 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I like turnip, radish, swede, onion, celery and carrots as my vegetables with a fresh chicken and bayleaves, peppercorn and salt as spices.
I cube the vegetables and slow cook.
The soup is not very gelatinous but the stock is quite fresh and sweet and there is no better chicken meat for sandwiches or salads than the boiled chicken meat.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:02 PM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I cube the vegetables and slow cook.
The soup is not very gelatinous but the stock is quite fresh and sweet and there is no better chicken meat for sandwiches or salads than the boiled chicken meat.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:02 PM on October 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you remove the fat from the top, you have delicious schmaltz and you can spread it on bread or use it to sauté things. Making stock is a convenient way to collect the fat as well vs trying to render it from the skin separately. Keeps a long time in the fridge or approximately forever in the freezer.
I never even considered that people would use a whole chicken and not just the carcass for stock. Boiled chicken is fine, but I let stock cook for way too long for that to be palatable.
posted by momus_window at 6:40 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I never even considered that people would use a whole chicken and not just the carcass for stock. Boiled chicken is fine, but I let stock cook for way too long for that to be palatable.
posted by momus_window at 6:40 PM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
In addition to chicken approaches, a way to level up your stock (and level down your expenditures) is to save the odds and ends from your aromatics (carrots, onions, celery) in a freezer bag and use those in your stock instead of whole ones - the flavour from the ends and skins of onions, carrot peels, and celery leaves make your broth just as flavourful as ones you pull out specifically for the purpose, but don't cost anything extra because you've already used the rest for something else.
For similar reasons, we're carcass-based stock proponents in my household. Even if we don't have time to make a stock after we've had a roast chicken for dinner, the carcass goes in the stock bag in the freezer; that way the chicken gets used for something else and nothing goes to waste. We also do this with vegetable odds and ends for veg stock.
posted by urbanlenny at 7:51 PM on October 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
For similar reasons, we're carcass-based stock proponents in my household. Even if we don't have time to make a stock after we've had a roast chicken for dinner, the carcass goes in the stock bag in the freezer; that way the chicken gets used for something else and nothing goes to waste. We also do this with vegetable odds and ends for veg stock.
posted by urbanlenny at 7:51 PM on October 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Joshua Weissman on "Ultimate guide to making amazing chicken stock"
* do NOT salt or pepper the stock
* remove all the meat, then ROAST THE BONES for 40-45 minutes in an oven, for "brown stock", just put it all with the meat for white stock.
Chef Jean Pierre on classic chicken stock
Epicurious on "Liquid Gold" chicken stock
posted by kschang at 9:08 PM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
* do NOT salt or pepper the stock
* remove all the meat, then ROAST THE BONES for 40-45 minutes in an oven, for "brown stock", just put it all with the meat for white stock.
Chef Jean Pierre on classic chicken stock
Epicurious on "Liquid Gold" chicken stock
posted by kschang at 9:08 PM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I buy three chickens at a time, break them down, and put the chopped breasts, legs and wings in the freezer for future meals. Then I put the carcasses in the Instant Pot with a non huge amount of water.
This produces the most concentrated chickeniest and yummiest chicken stock I've ever encountered. I think it would be even better if I roasted the bones off first, although I haven't tried it. I always salt to taste when using it rather than salting when I make it.
I don't put extra veg in there because I think it would be a waste of good veg, this stock is perfect already.
posted by quacks like a duck at 12:57 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
This produces the most concentrated chickeniest and yummiest chicken stock I've ever encountered. I think it would be even better if I roasted the bones off first, although I haven't tried it. I always salt to taste when using it rather than salting when I make it.
I don't put extra veg in there because I think it would be a waste of good veg, this stock is perfect already.
posted by quacks like a duck at 12:57 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
The only difference is the rotisserie one has more color to the broth
Roasting meat creates new flavourful chemicals which your plain chicken lacks; so the rotisserie chicken will have both extra colour and extra flavour.
posted by vincebowdren at 3:53 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Roasting meat creates new flavourful chemicals which your plain chicken lacks; so the rotisserie chicken will have both extra colour and extra flavour.
posted by vincebowdren at 3:53 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
There are some dishes where slowly simmered chicken is preferable to roasted. In that case, I cook the whole chicken til ready, take it out of the water and cut off all all the meat, and then I throw the carcass and skin back into the pot an cook it till done (time varies, I have a pressure cooker and cook it 45 minutes). Then I strain it and cool it, so the fat rises to the top and I can spoon it off (easier after a night in the fridge, but I don't always have that time). Then reduce the stock further, maybe to 2/3 of the volume. Freeze in portions that are useful in your kitchen or use the next day for soup or risotto or something else delicious. In my case I will be using some for the sauce to go with the chicken meat, but there will still be enough for one more meal.
Otherwise, as everyone says, there is no right or wrong here.
posted by mumimor at 4:29 AM on October 11, 2023
Otherwise, as everyone says, there is no right or wrong here.
posted by mumimor at 4:29 AM on October 11, 2023
About the Italian parsley: good addition but just use the stems, save the leaves for something else.
posted by tmdonahue at 5:38 AM on October 11, 2023
posted by tmdonahue at 5:38 AM on October 11, 2023
The only wrong way is the way that does not lead to chicken broth. Anything else and you're golden.
My method:
Save scraps and snips and trimmings from veggies, fat and bones from meat in the freezer until I have about a gallon ziploc full. Carrots peels, onion tops and tails, parsley stems, mushroom stems, celery bits, pepper cores, sweet potato peels, leek tops. For a general meat broth I don't sort my types of meat fats/bones. Throw it all into the pressure cooker, add a couple of bay leaves and some peppercorns. If I have stew bones or chicken feet, a few of those are great. Any languishing vegetables can join in, or I might balance out the scraps with something if it seems lacking: too many carrots and I'll make sure to add an onion and celery. Mostly chicken: cook for 30 minutes on low pressure. Mixed meats: 45 minutes on high pressure (I have a stovetop pressure cooker with two settings, but really, throw in pot and pressure cook for 30-45 minutes. Maybe err on an hour in an electric cooker). Strain. Rejoice.
However, sometimes I want CHICKEN broth. Then, I don't mix it with other fat and bones. If I'm cooking a whole raw chicken, I will gently poach it until it's done, take off the meat, then cook the remaining bones and bits. Sometimes I can get chicken backs, necks, feet, and wings, and those (or any mixture of those) make a great chicken stock, rich and thick. I cook from raw and put in a tablespoon or so of white or cider vinegar (I've read it helps break things down and get more of the good stuff into the stock) a bit of salt, frozen veggie scraps or at least an onion, carrot, and celery stalk/leaves, bay leaves, peppercorns in the pressure cooker for 30 minutes. So good.
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:30 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
My method:
Save scraps and snips and trimmings from veggies, fat and bones from meat in the freezer until I have about a gallon ziploc full. Carrots peels, onion tops and tails, parsley stems, mushroom stems, celery bits, pepper cores, sweet potato peels, leek tops. For a general meat broth I don't sort my types of meat fats/bones. Throw it all into the pressure cooker, add a couple of bay leaves and some peppercorns. If I have stew bones or chicken feet, a few of those are great. Any languishing vegetables can join in, or I might balance out the scraps with something if it seems lacking: too many carrots and I'll make sure to add an onion and celery. Mostly chicken: cook for 30 minutes on low pressure. Mixed meats: 45 minutes on high pressure (I have a stovetop pressure cooker with two settings, but really, throw in pot and pressure cook for 30-45 minutes. Maybe err on an hour in an electric cooker). Strain. Rejoice.
However, sometimes I want CHICKEN broth. Then, I don't mix it with other fat and bones. If I'm cooking a whole raw chicken, I will gently poach it until it's done, take off the meat, then cook the remaining bones and bits. Sometimes I can get chicken backs, necks, feet, and wings, and those (or any mixture of those) make a great chicken stock, rich and thick. I cook from raw and put in a tablespoon or so of white or cider vinegar (I've read it helps break things down and get more of the good stuff into the stock) a bit of salt, frozen veggie scraps or at least an onion, carrot, and celery stalk/leaves, bay leaves, peppercorns in the pressure cooker for 30 minutes. So good.
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:30 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Someone(s) already mentioned cracking/breaking the bones once they get soft.
In addition, I put apple cider vinegar when cooking stock, as it helps the bones soften and helps draw out nutrients and minerals from the them. Once the stock is done, you can't taste the vinegar.
posted by interbeing at 6:43 AM on October 11, 2023
In addition, I put apple cider vinegar when cooking stock, as it helps the bones soften and helps draw out nutrients and minerals from the them. Once the stock is done, you can't taste the vinegar.
posted by interbeing at 6:43 AM on October 11, 2023
I have been looking for this in vain, but I swear I saw it once - there was a food blogger or food web site on which they did a comparison of chicken broth recipe techniques; I definitely remember they did one version using a rotisserie chicken and one using raw chicken (other methods involved changing up the aromatics, or changing what PARTS of the chicken you used, bones vs. meat, and other factors). Somewhere online there is a detailed analysis of this that may be of interest (if you can find the damn thing, I've tried doing a search and get a gabillion articles about comparison of storebought stock, gah).
At the end of the day, though, the difference between using a rotisserie chicken carcass and other raw chicken parts is only a matter of taste. There's no "more correct" version - there's only how things taste. The more meat on the bones you include the more flavor, and the more cartilage you include the more thickness/richness.
A lot of people use just the carcass from a chicken they roasted or a rotisserie chicken, but that's more a matter of frugality; it simply makes more economic sense to buy the chicken and eat it and then make broth from the bones than it does to buy a chicken and just make broth from it. That said - sometimes supermarkets package up the chicken feet and chicken backs they have leftover from carving up the various other chicken parts, and making broth just from that, or adding some of that to a rotisserie chicken carcass, can give your broth a little more body.
This may be a fun experiment for you to try on your part! Try a bunch of different ways, and make notes as you go.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:53 AM on October 11, 2023
At the end of the day, though, the difference between using a rotisserie chicken carcass and other raw chicken parts is only a matter of taste. There's no "more correct" version - there's only how things taste. The more meat on the bones you include the more flavor, and the more cartilage you include the more thickness/richness.
A lot of people use just the carcass from a chicken they roasted or a rotisserie chicken, but that's more a matter of frugality; it simply makes more economic sense to buy the chicken and eat it and then make broth from the bones than it does to buy a chicken and just make broth from it. That said - sometimes supermarkets package up the chicken feet and chicken backs they have leftover from carving up the various other chicken parts, and making broth just from that, or adding some of that to a rotisserie chicken carcass, can give your broth a little more body.
This may be a fun experiment for you to try on your part! Try a bunch of different ways, and make notes as you go.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:53 AM on October 11, 2023
This from Serious Eats is probably the chicken stock technique comparison that EmpressCallipygos is thinking of, and it is indeed a helpful read.
posted by telegraph at 6:59 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 6:59 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not chicken, but close... I am also the weird person who steals the carcass from the family's Thanksgiving dinner every year. If possible, I take it in the giant electric roaster that my mother-in-law cooked it in. Dump in veggies, herbs, and fill to the top with water = broth for ages!
posted by hessie at 8:00 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hessie at 8:00 AM on October 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mod note: This post has been added to the Best Of blog!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:12 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:12 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am also the weird person who steals the carcass from the family's Thanksgiving dinner every year. If possible, I take it in the giant electric roaster that my mother-in-law cooked it in. Dump in veggies, herbs, and fill to the top with water = broth for ages!
Seconding this - I insisted on doing this at my brother's place one Thanksgiving, and packing away all the leftovers. He thought it was sweet, if eccentric, and let me go ahead. ....then when we had a whole family of cousins drop by the following day who hadn't been able to make it to Thanksgiving proper, and my sister in law was wondering what to whip up for lunch, I pulled out the stock and the containers of turkey meat and veg and asked if she had some pasta. And about 15 minutes later we were serving up turkey noodle soup, as I gave my brother a couple "a-ha!" significant looks.
And to bring things around to the point - maybe that's one advantage of using a rotisserie chicken, is that you can save the meat to use in the soup you'd be making from the stock.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:50 AM on October 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Seconding this - I insisted on doing this at my brother's place one Thanksgiving, and packing away all the leftovers. He thought it was sweet, if eccentric, and let me go ahead. ....then when we had a whole family of cousins drop by the following day who hadn't been able to make it to Thanksgiving proper, and my sister in law was wondering what to whip up for lunch, I pulled out the stock and the containers of turkey meat and veg and asked if she had some pasta. And about 15 minutes later we were serving up turkey noodle soup, as I gave my brother a couple "a-ha!" significant looks.
And to bring things around to the point - maybe that's one advantage of using a rotisserie chicken, is that you can save the meat to use in the soup you'd be making from the stock.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:50 AM on October 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
I use both kinds of carcasses, rotisserie and fresh (technically frozen), and will mix them to create enough quantity in the stock pot. I save onion, carrot, and parsley trimmings in the freezer and use those, never whole onions or carrots. I add chicken necks and feet from the butcher shop, some peppercorns and a couple of bay leaves, and then simmer for as long as i am patient. I have not noted a difference between stock made from rotisserie vs. fresh carcasses, other than final salt level.
I used to chop up the carcasses, but found that it made no difference in final gelatinization, whereas allowing a solid boil to occur was directly connected to success. By the time i'm done simmering, the carcasses have collapsed into a jumble of bones. My stock is dark, not clear, and definitely needs salt, but it is solid and thick, with the consistency of jello. I usually get a lot of solid fat off the top when i skim it after 24 hours in the fridge.
posted by jindc at 9:16 AM on October 11, 2023
I used to chop up the carcasses, but found that it made no difference in final gelatinization, whereas allowing a solid boil to occur was directly connected to success. By the time i'm done simmering, the carcasses have collapsed into a jumble of bones. My stock is dark, not clear, and definitely needs salt, but it is solid and thick, with the consistency of jello. I usually get a lot of solid fat off the top when i skim it after 24 hours in the fridge.
posted by jindc at 9:16 AM on October 11, 2023
As pollytropos says, in many ways the most versatile stock is frozen demi-glace. I don't bother with the cubes, I just cut off what I need with a butter knife. Roughly 1 tsp to 1 tbsp per cup of liquid, depending on the intensity of the chicken flavor and texture desired.
The other thing I would note is that you're not looking to turn it into chicken soup. You're looking to make a base that can be augmented to turn it into soup. Adding trinity (carrots, onions, celery) is one thing because almost any French-style brothy dish is likely to have those things in it anyway. Ditto a stalk of celery or a bay leaf or two. But adding herbs/spices and a lot of other flavor components can decrease the versatility of your stock.
Finally, there are degrees of fussiness in the stock. You can go all-out to reduce color (making consomme), you can just boil it all together and drain. Personally I like something in the middle. Roasted bones for flavor despite the darker color, skimming all the fat so it doesn't go rancid, a bit of skimming from hour to hour for the bulk of the loose solids. Depends on what I'm going to do with it. If it's going straight into gravy, the boil it all approach is perfect!
posted by wnissen at 9:19 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
The other thing I would note is that you're not looking to turn it into chicken soup. You're looking to make a base that can be augmented to turn it into soup. Adding trinity (carrots, onions, celery) is one thing because almost any French-style brothy dish is likely to have those things in it anyway. Ditto a stalk of celery or a bay leaf or two. But adding herbs/spices and a lot of other flavor components can decrease the versatility of your stock.
Finally, there are degrees of fussiness in the stock. You can go all-out to reduce color (making consomme), you can just boil it all together and drain. Personally I like something in the middle. Roasted bones for flavor despite the darker color, skimming all the fat so it doesn't go rancid, a bit of skimming from hour to hour for the bulk of the loose solids. Depends on what I'm going to do with it. If it's going straight into gravy, the boil it all approach is perfect!
posted by wnissen at 9:19 AM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I just today saw ice-"cube" forms that made ice-sticks - ostensibly for cooling water in a bottle. But I thought they would be genius for stock-sticks, because they contain more liquid than traditional cubes. So keep an eye out for them!
posted by mumimor at 12:31 PM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 12:31 PM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't think there's a right or wrong in general. Some recipes may benefit from brown stock or white stock specifically, but they'll usually say when it's important. We mostly do brown stock, mostly with the carcass of roasted chicken, but we've done white stock when a recipe called for it. Most of the time when we're cooking with chicken stock, it's for something where those roasted flavors are desirable.
OTOH, if we want a classic chicken noodle soup we'll start from a raw bird and use this recipe from Bon Appétit instead of incorporating stock. We've made it that way at least a half dozen times.
posted by fedward at 12:40 PM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
OTOH, if we want a classic chicken noodle soup we'll start from a raw bird and use this recipe from Bon Appétit instead of incorporating stock. We've made it that way at least a half dozen times.
posted by fedward at 12:40 PM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
nthing there is no wrong way. But a point on terminology...Chicken stock will have been made with the bones. Chicken broth will not. The bones add gelatin which will give the final result a richer more unctuous mouthfeel.
posted by mmascolino at 1:14 PM on October 11, 2023
posted by mmascolino at 1:14 PM on October 11, 2023
The best part of the chicken for stock is the wingtip. Wingtips have great collagen and make sturdy broth! It pains me now to see chicken wings for sale at the grocery store without the wingtips. Maybe it's a time saver, but... (It also pains me to see roasted chicken/turkey with wingtips on. Chop 'em off, throw 'em in the freezer till you've got enough for broth. Right now if you spatchcock the bird. Add that bag of carrot peels and onion skins and scraps you've been saving back of the ice cube tray.)
posted by CCBC at 9:40 PM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by CCBC at 9:40 PM on October 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I prefer using cooked meat for broth primarily because it eliminates the scum problem. The additional flavour and colour are a bonus.
I used to roast whole chickens just so that I would have carcasses later, but I currently order all my meat online from a butcher with a wider selection than a supermarket, and something that they have is inexpensive chicken soup bones -- the bones, skin and cartilage left over from filleted chicken breasts. Perfect. So now I cut out the middleman.
I get eight of these at a time (usually semi-frozen when they get to me). I put them on a big oven tray, salt them, roast them on one side until they're brown, flip them over and roast them on the other side. Then I put them in a slow cooker (crock pot), just cover them with water (making sure to pour in the pan drippings), add some (optional) vegetables and aromatics (carrot, leek, halved and blackened onion, celery, parsley, garlic, ginger, a few leaves of white cabbage, dried mushrooms, black peppercorns, other spices), and cook everything on the higher setting until the chicken is falling apart. Then I fish out the solids, strain the broth into small tupperwares, refrigerate it overnight, and freeze it. Soup base ready to go whenever I want it!
You get scum when liquid proteins are washed out of the meat and dispersed in the water, and then set. If you roast the meat, those proteins set before the meat goes in the water. If the meat is wet (I often have to rinse the chicken because it's packaged in styrofoam which really takes a beating before it gets to me, and I have to wash off little styrofoam flecks) you may see a lot of protein oozing out of the meat and pooling in the pan, but it still solidifies in big blobs that you can shake off the meat and strain out of the drippings, so it's much easier to get rid of.
Because there's so little agitation in the slow cooker, and no scum all over everything, I find that the vegetables end up in a relatively appealing state at the end of the cooking process. I carefully remove them before dealing with the chicken bits, and freeze them for later -- I puree them and add them to various kinds of fillings (pies, pierogi, meatballs, meatloaf, etc.). If I made the broth out of actual chicken pieces (like wings or drumsticks) I would combine the meat and vegetables into some kind of leftover meal, but there's so little meat on the soup bones that I just throw them out without guilt.
posted by confluency at 7:07 AM on October 12, 2023
I used to roast whole chickens just so that I would have carcasses later, but I currently order all my meat online from a butcher with a wider selection than a supermarket, and something that they have is inexpensive chicken soup bones -- the bones, skin and cartilage left over from filleted chicken breasts. Perfect. So now I cut out the middleman.
I get eight of these at a time (usually semi-frozen when they get to me). I put them on a big oven tray, salt them, roast them on one side until they're brown, flip them over and roast them on the other side. Then I put them in a slow cooker (crock pot), just cover them with water (making sure to pour in the pan drippings), add some (optional) vegetables and aromatics (carrot, leek, halved and blackened onion, celery, parsley, garlic, ginger, a few leaves of white cabbage, dried mushrooms, black peppercorns, other spices), and cook everything on the higher setting until the chicken is falling apart. Then I fish out the solids, strain the broth into small tupperwares, refrigerate it overnight, and freeze it. Soup base ready to go whenever I want it!
You get scum when liquid proteins are washed out of the meat and dispersed in the water, and then set. If you roast the meat, those proteins set before the meat goes in the water. If the meat is wet (I often have to rinse the chicken because it's packaged in styrofoam which really takes a beating before it gets to me, and I have to wash off little styrofoam flecks) you may see a lot of protein oozing out of the meat and pooling in the pan, but it still solidifies in big blobs that you can shake off the meat and strain out of the drippings, so it's much easier to get rid of.
Because there's so little agitation in the slow cooker, and no scum all over everything, I find that the vegetables end up in a relatively appealing state at the end of the cooking process. I carefully remove them before dealing with the chicken bits, and freeze them for later -- I puree them and add them to various kinds of fillings (pies, pierogi, meatballs, meatloaf, etc.). If I made the broth out of actual chicken pieces (like wings or drumsticks) I would combine the meat and vegetables into some kind of leftover meal, but there's so little meat on the soup bones that I just throw them out without guilt.
posted by confluency at 7:07 AM on October 12, 2023
For those who bring home the turkey carcass, read about Presidential candidate and former Mass. Gov. Mike Dukakis, who scavenges Turkey carcasses from family and fiends to make soup. I love homemade turkey stock and Mike Dukakis. I don't fuss much about how I make stock, I just always make it, because it's such a great resource.
posted by theora55 at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2023
posted by theora55 at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2023
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When I use raw chicken I sometimes brown the parts/bones first, I've been told that makes a richer broth. So the rotisserie might accomplish that.
posted by bondcliff at 3:42 PM on October 10, 2023 [17 favorites]