New roomate friend is easily irritated, not sure if they are right?
September 21, 2023 12:40 PM Subscribe
I have a new roommate who is a friend of a friend, and they just moved into my condo unit building. Lately, the roommate got easily upset because I did not put back the entertainment key in the exact spot and they needed, it but I forgot and they got upset and said can you please put it back in the same spot and got a bit cross.
And they also got upset because for the long pantry hall all of my food was on one side and theirs is further in the back and they were complaining that theirs was too far in the back and a chore to go get it. I said I could move my stuff in the back it’s not a problem but they said it’s fine I’ll move it all in the kitchen cupboard instead (sorry, but people in Africa and worldwide are dying in poverty and you are complaining about how too far and a chore it is to grab your food?). They also complained that the air conditioner is too loud since it is next to their bedroom but not much can be done. They also got upset that I forgot to clean my dishes (got sidetracked and forgot to wash them off properly). They seem sweet and cool, but she seems easily to get irritated. Am I wrong here? And since we are allowed only one mail key to share for one unit, she said to keep the mail key on the wall key hook, like she didn't even ask, she just said put it on there, like it was a demand. I said you don't have to get upset about all of this, and she said please don't tell me how I feel. Maybe I’m just a difficult person to live with it? Besides that, we get along but I never had someone get upset easily over things like this before? Maybe I was a bit clumsy with the key thing and maybe I am being a bit self-absorbed? I am not sure, I haven't had a roommate in a long time, not used to someone pointing all of these things out? Except my ex-boyfriend of course.
And they also got upset because for the long pantry hall all of my food was on one side and theirs is further in the back and they were complaining that theirs was too far in the back and a chore to go get it. I said I could move my stuff in the back it’s not a problem but they said it’s fine I’ll move it all in the kitchen cupboard instead (sorry, but people in Africa and worldwide are dying in poverty and you are complaining about how too far and a chore it is to grab your food?). They also complained that the air conditioner is too loud since it is next to their bedroom but not much can be done. They also got upset that I forgot to clean my dishes (got sidetracked and forgot to wash them off properly). They seem sweet and cool, but she seems easily to get irritated. Am I wrong here? And since we are allowed only one mail key to share for one unit, she said to keep the mail key on the wall key hook, like she didn't even ask, she just said put it on there, like it was a demand. I said you don't have to get upset about all of this, and she said please don't tell me how I feel. Maybe I’m just a difficult person to live with it? Besides that, we get along but I never had someone get upset easily over things like this before? Maybe I was a bit clumsy with the key thing and maybe I am being a bit self-absorbed? I am not sure, I haven't had a roommate in a long time, not used to someone pointing all of these things out? Except my ex-boyfriend of course.
I don’t think either of you is wrong. Some of the things that annoy your roommate would annoy me as well but I recognize that as a matter of preference. Long-term, I think the two of you won’t enjoy living together so you should probably think through how you can get out of this arrangement as soon as possible.
posted by scantee at 12:51 PM on September 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by scantee at 12:51 PM on September 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
Best answer: I am easily annoyed by things that disrupt my living space. I am aware of this and work on it.
This person sounds way over the top. Way over. Some of their preferences seem reasonable -- if there's only one mail key, then yes, it should be where any of y'all can get it. And it is annoying if people move shared things and don't put them back.
But the pantry things seems a bit much. And I'm not sure what their complaint entails (did they "complain" by commenting on the loud AC or did they complain to you about it when it's out of your control?) so hard to say there.
But. It sounds like they've gone from "here are entirely reasonable things to ask a roommate" to outright snippy and snappy. Where's the honeymoon period of best behavior and being nice to ease into living together?
From your description they sound easily irritated. And their "don't tell me how to feel" thing sounds unpromising if you're hoping it'll get better.
posted by jzb at 12:55 PM on September 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
This person sounds way over the top. Way over. Some of their preferences seem reasonable -- if there's only one mail key, then yes, it should be where any of y'all can get it. And it is annoying if people move shared things and don't put them back.
But the pantry things seems a bit much. And I'm not sure what their complaint entails (did they "complain" by commenting on the loud AC or did they complain to you about it when it's out of your control?) so hard to say there.
But. It sounds like they've gone from "here are entirely reasonable things to ask a roommate" to outright snippy and snappy. Where's the honeymoon period of best behavior and being nice to ease into living together?
From your description they sound easily irritated. And their "don't tell me how to feel" thing sounds unpromising if you're hoping it'll get better.
posted by jzb at 12:55 PM on September 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: @ MillyMath It is to access the indoor pool and other gaming/sports rooms in the building.
posted by RearWindow at 12:57 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by RearWindow at 12:57 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just make a copy of the mail key (and any other single keys) so you can each have your own?
I wonder if New Roommate is feeling like they are moving into someone else's space, but they want to feel like it's just as much their space too?
posted by esker at 12:57 PM on September 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
I wonder if New Roommate is feeling like they are moving into someone else's space, but they want to feel like it's just as much their space too?
posted by esker at 12:57 PM on September 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
It seems like you both should have had a conversation before agreeing to be roommates about living style and preferences. Some people are neat freaks and others are fine leaving a dish in a sink or some clothes on the floor. Neither of those approaches to living are right or wrong, just a matter of preference.
It does seem like you two are not compatible as roommates. I don't know who is the primary lease holder (or maybe you're the owner of the condo and have a spare room you rent out?), but since you've been in the condo longer, I think it would be fine for you to say that this person would be better off looking for a living situation that would suit them better and then give them time to find a place.
Now if both of you are willing to adjust expectations and styles, you could try to have a conversation to figure some of these compatibility issues out, but based on the limited information you've shared it doesn't seem like your new roommate is that adaptable. She's easily annoyed, is not handling her annoyance in a constructive way, and has already driven you to AskMe to figure out what is wrong with this situation. Those are not promising indicators that things can improve, but we're just internet strangers, so maybe there is something worth working on.
Make sure any agreements you have, especially about move out dates, are in writing and that there's a paper trail of what you've discussed just in case things go badly.
posted by brookeb at 12:59 PM on September 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
It does seem like you two are not compatible as roommates. I don't know who is the primary lease holder (or maybe you're the owner of the condo and have a spare room you rent out?), but since you've been in the condo longer, I think it would be fine for you to say that this person would be better off looking for a living situation that would suit them better and then give them time to find a place.
Now if both of you are willing to adjust expectations and styles, you could try to have a conversation to figure some of these compatibility issues out, but based on the limited information you've shared it doesn't seem like your new roommate is that adaptable. She's easily annoyed, is not handling her annoyance in a constructive way, and has already driven you to AskMe to figure out what is wrong with this situation. Those are not promising indicators that things can improve, but we're just internet strangers, so maybe there is something worth working on.
Make sure any agreements you have, especially about move out dates, are in writing and that there's a paper trail of what you've discussed just in case things go badly.
posted by brookeb at 12:59 PM on September 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I agree that neither of your is wrong per se - my read is that your roommate is maybe not doing great at communicating their needs in a friendly manner, but their meets are not unreasonable.
Like esker says, can you not duplicate the two keys you share? Given that you both need these keys and currently share them, it's reasonable that she wants them stored in an agreed location that you can both easily access.
And since we are allowed only one mail key to share for one unit, she said to keep the mail key on the wall key hook, like she didn't even ask, she just said put it on there, like it was a demand. I said you don't have to get upset about all of this, and she said please don't tell me how I feel.
I mean, if I set up an easy place to keep a shared mail key, and then my roommate responded "you don't have to get upset" I'd be irritated too. I mean, why are you getting upset about her essentially solving a problem you both have? Why does she have to ask?
But yeah, in short, I think you should propose a meeting to figure out some house rules so that you can have less conflict. Try to go into with an open mind - they may be unreasonable about some things (like the A/C noise) but that doesn't mean they are entirely in the wrong.
posted by coffeecat at 1:11 PM on September 21, 2023 [19 favorites]
Like esker says, can you not duplicate the two keys you share? Given that you both need these keys and currently share them, it's reasonable that she wants them stored in an agreed location that you can both easily access.
And since we are allowed only one mail key to share for one unit, she said to keep the mail key on the wall key hook, like she didn't even ask, she just said put it on there, like it was a demand. I said you don't have to get upset about all of this, and she said please don't tell me how I feel.
I mean, if I set up an easy place to keep a shared mail key, and then my roommate responded "you don't have to get upset" I'd be irritated too. I mean, why are you getting upset about her essentially solving a problem you both have? Why does she have to ask?
But yeah, in short, I think you should propose a meeting to figure out some house rules so that you can have less conflict. Try to go into with an open mind - they may be unreasonable about some things (like the A/C noise) but that doesn't mean they are entirely in the wrong.
posted by coffeecat at 1:11 PM on September 21, 2023 [19 favorites]
I don't have any feedback about the actual issues your roommate was upset about, but I will say that "you don't have to get upset about all this" is probably not the most productive or accurate way to address your concerns. Because, rightly or wrongly they are upset, and they probably can't really help it -- that's how feelings usually work. So I can actually totally understand them responding with "please don't tell me how I feel." Like, it's perfectly fine for them to feel however they feel, everyone has a right to their feelings! It's just how they act on and deal with those feelings that is hurting you, because they're not being very kind or tactful when they talk to you about it. So, I'd suggest focusing on that, rather on asking them not to get upset.
posted by peperomia at 1:17 PM on September 21, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by peperomia at 1:17 PM on September 21, 2023 [19 favorites]
How long has she been living there? How long have you been living on your own?
I could see how these things would be annoying to her -- say she wanted to go for a swim but the key was missing. She was waiting for an important piece of mail but you had the key. Maybe she feels like you stuck her with the less desirable room (although if you own the condo, that's your right) and didn't make room for her food. Maybe she's feeling less than welcome in a place that's supposed to be her home.
I don't know. I'm not there. She could be wildly overreacting to things that aren't at all a big deal and just all around a cranky person. But from your post -- the Africa comment, telling her "you don't have to get upset" (which will make anyone upset) -- you also seem a bit dismissive of her feelings.
I'm not saying to go far out of your way to make her feel like it's her home too, but she's not a guest. It's not unreasonable for her to want things that make her feel like she can be settled there. She does seem to be reacting badly, though, and not expressing herself well. That is absolutely on her.
It could just be you're not suited to living together even if you like each other otherwise (there are plenty of people I love that I know I could never live with). But from my perspective, you're both still figuring this out and I think you both have reason to be annoyed with each other. That's OK. I agree you should probably sit and talk about it.
posted by edencosmic at 1:25 PM on September 21, 2023 [17 favorites]
I could see how these things would be annoying to her -- say she wanted to go for a swim but the key was missing. She was waiting for an important piece of mail but you had the key. Maybe she feels like you stuck her with the less desirable room (although if you own the condo, that's your right) and didn't make room for her food. Maybe she's feeling less than welcome in a place that's supposed to be her home.
I don't know. I'm not there. She could be wildly overreacting to things that aren't at all a big deal and just all around a cranky person. But from your post -- the Africa comment, telling her "you don't have to get upset" (which will make anyone upset) -- you also seem a bit dismissive of her feelings.
I'm not saying to go far out of your way to make her feel like it's her home too, but she's not a guest. It's not unreasonable for her to want things that make her feel like she can be settled there. She does seem to be reacting badly, though, and not expressing herself well. That is absolutely on her.
It could just be you're not suited to living together even if you like each other otherwise (there are plenty of people I love that I know I could never live with). But from my perspective, you're both still figuring this out and I think you both have reason to be annoyed with each other. That's OK. I agree you should probably sit and talk about it.
posted by edencosmic at 1:25 PM on September 21, 2023 [17 favorites]
Mostly this all sounds like new roommate friction that should resolve once you start actually reliably keeping shared things where shared things should be andd she gets her stuff organized and figures out earplugs for the A/C. I’d just hang in there for a couple of weeks and see if this all resolves itself.
But I’m stuck on one thing: “you don’t need to get upset” is a line pretty much guaranteed to induce fury in anyone not actually upset already, and it’s certainly not going to calm someone down. She was right on that one. It’s time to take both “assuming I know what she feels” and “telling her whether her feelings seem appropriate to me” out of your repertoire. If she’s doing some *action* like yelling or slamming doors, you can ask her not to do that. But consider her feelings off limits for discussion, effective immediately.
(I would also take “people are living in poverty” out of your vocabulary. It’s condescending and dismissive. And if you really have to go there, your roommate complaints are probably about the same level of petty here.)
posted by Stacey at 1:30 PM on September 21, 2023 [67 favorites]
But I’m stuck on one thing: “you don’t need to get upset” is a line pretty much guaranteed to induce fury in anyone not actually upset already, and it’s certainly not going to calm someone down. She was right on that one. It’s time to take both “assuming I know what she feels” and “telling her whether her feelings seem appropriate to me” out of your repertoire. If she’s doing some *action* like yelling or slamming doors, you can ask her not to do that. But consider her feelings off limits for discussion, effective immediately.
(I would also take “people are living in poverty” out of your vocabulary. It’s condescending and dismissive. And if you really have to go there, your roommate complaints are probably about the same level of petty here.)
posted by Stacey at 1:30 PM on September 21, 2023 [67 favorites]
FWIW I was once a crappy intolerant flatmate and snapped a few times when I shouldn’t have done. But a friend of mine had just died and I just wasn’t dealing with stuff well generally. Unfortunately for that flatmate, she was only staying for a month so she only saw crap flatmate me. AFAIK I’m generally pretty good. Certainly am still good friends with one of my flatmates of 4 years, many years after we stopped living together.
Just to say it might not be you, and it might not be permanent. Even just moving to a new place is stressful and might not be showing them at their best.
posted by penguin pie at 1:34 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just to say it might not be you, and it might not be permanent. Even just moving to a new place is stressful and might not be showing them at their best.
posted by penguin pie at 1:34 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
It might be helpful to know that some people have a strong need for things they use regularly to be in the same, easy-to-access place, and for their environment to be clean and free of obstacles, because it helps them keep from losing important things, too, or because it removes barriers to access, or because it brings them comfort and security. This could be because of some sort of neurodivergency, or past experiences/trauma, or just who they are for whatever reason*. And if this doesn't happen, it can be very agitating and cause irritability.
I am one such person, because of my ADHD. If there's a very important object, especially one that someone besides me relies on, I am constantly anxious that I will lose it and screw both of us over, and I know for myself the best way to prevent that is to keep it in the exact same place at all times when it's not in use. If I have food shoved in the back of a cabinet, I will forget it exists and it will likely be wasted when it expires and I have to throw it away -- which is distressing to me precisely because it's wasting food when others have none (also it's wasted money). And no, none of the obvious simple solutions everyone always suggests for these things help. Except for keeping my important keys in the same place all the time!
Because I know these things about myself, and have learned coping skills, and have learned how to communicate my needs, I can share space with people who understand them and are willing to discuss compromises. But there are some people I could never live with or even travel with because our needs are fundamentally incompatible and we'd drive each other crazy.
So your roommate isn't being particularly unreasonable, but you might not be compatible as roommates unless you can both communicate clearly what your respective needs are, and come to a reasonable compromise -- and it doesn't sound like communication is going well on either end right now.
* To be very clear, I'm not trying to diagnose your roommate and neither should you, in your head or out loud to them -- that would likely backfire, and anyway shouldn't matter, either you can find a compatible way to live together or you can't.
posted by rhiannonstone at 1:37 PM on September 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
I am one such person, because of my ADHD. If there's a very important object, especially one that someone besides me relies on, I am constantly anxious that I will lose it and screw both of us over, and I know for myself the best way to prevent that is to keep it in the exact same place at all times when it's not in use. If I have food shoved in the back of a cabinet, I will forget it exists and it will likely be wasted when it expires and I have to throw it away -- which is distressing to me precisely because it's wasting food when others have none (also it's wasted money). And no, none of the obvious simple solutions everyone always suggests for these things help. Except for keeping my important keys in the same place all the time!
Because I know these things about myself, and have learned coping skills, and have learned how to communicate my needs, I can share space with people who understand them and are willing to discuss compromises. But there are some people I could never live with or even travel with because our needs are fundamentally incompatible and we'd drive each other crazy.
So your roommate isn't being particularly unreasonable, but you might not be compatible as roommates unless you can both communicate clearly what your respective needs are, and come to a reasonable compromise -- and it doesn't sound like communication is going well on either end right now.
* To be very clear, I'm not trying to diagnose your roommate and neither should you, in your head or out loud to them -- that would likely backfire, and anyway shouldn't matter, either you can find a compatible way to live together or you can't.
posted by rhiannonstone at 1:37 PM on September 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
(sorry, but people in Africa and worldwide are dying in poverty and you are complaining about how too far and a chore it is to grab your food?)
I mean, you're complaining about... being asked to hang a key on a hook.
Sounds like they wanted to use the building's facilities and couldn't, because you were inconsiderate and put the key somewhere where they couldn't find it? And then you did the same thing with your mail key and they couldn't check their mail. If so, the right response on your part would be "oh shit I'm sorry, I'll make sure to hang it on the hook from now on."
What with the entertainment key and the mail key and the dishes it sounds like you've got a bit (hopefully not more than a bit) of a pattern of living like your roommate doesn't exist and you don't need to take their needs into consideration. That's kind of lousy for the roommate to live with. You asked if you sound self-absorbed; I think you do.
The pantry thing might also be because they're getting a sense of lack of consideration on your part. I mean it's always tricky when you move into a space where someone else is already living: they've usually set it up according to their preferences, given themselves the best room and best shelves and whatever, and the newcomer usually has to just accept it. A considerate incumbent shows some awareness of that and, if they're really thoughtful, makes some gestures towards evening out the situation.
We don't have enough details about anything to know if that's what's going on or not, or what their getting "upset" and "a bit cross" actually entailed, or what your responses have actually been like. Maybe this roommate is getting progressively less nice because they're showing their true colors or something. Or maybe they're losing good will towards you because they feel your behavior has been inconsiderate or rude and they're trying to take a stand, or tell you that it bothers them.
posted by trig at 1:38 PM on September 21, 2023 [85 favorites]
I mean, you're complaining about... being asked to hang a key on a hook.
Sounds like they wanted to use the building's facilities and couldn't, because you were inconsiderate and put the key somewhere where they couldn't find it? And then you did the same thing with your mail key and they couldn't check their mail. If so, the right response on your part would be "oh shit I'm sorry, I'll make sure to hang it on the hook from now on."
What with the entertainment key and the mail key and the dishes it sounds like you've got a bit (hopefully not more than a bit) of a pattern of living like your roommate doesn't exist and you don't need to take their needs into consideration. That's kind of lousy for the roommate to live with. You asked if you sound self-absorbed; I think you do.
The pantry thing might also be because they're getting a sense of lack of consideration on your part. I mean it's always tricky when you move into a space where someone else is already living: they've usually set it up according to their preferences, given themselves the best room and best shelves and whatever, and the newcomer usually has to just accept it. A considerate incumbent shows some awareness of that and, if they're really thoughtful, makes some gestures towards evening out the situation.
We don't have enough details about anything to know if that's what's going on or not, or what their getting "upset" and "a bit cross" actually entailed, or what your responses have actually been like. Maybe this roommate is getting progressively less nice because they're showing their true colors or something. Or maybe they're losing good will towards you because they feel your behavior has been inconsiderate or rude and they're trying to take a stand, or tell you that it bothers them.
posted by trig at 1:38 PM on September 21, 2023 [85 favorites]
It sounds like this person is moving into YOUR space, and I believe that means she should mostly defer to your preferences. That is always how I have treated roommate situations and how others have treated them with me (in large cities in the US and allll over Europe and the Middle East). I think this person sounds very entitled about the space, and I personally would be miserable in that situation. If you like them and want to ride it out, go for it, but I’d be hating life. You have the full validation of this stranger.
posted by asimplemouse at 2:08 PM on September 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by asimplemouse at 2:08 PM on September 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've had a lot of nightmare housemates over the years (now blissfully finally living alone) and a lot of this behaviour sounds very familiar. I think often people are stressed just by the very fact of having to live with other people, who were often previously strangers, out of financial necessity, which is understandable! Sometimes people can take this stress and insecurity and make it your problem by picking at and trying to control every little thing and having outsize emotional reactions when that doesn't work, which is not okay.
It might be worth trying to talk about it in a house meeting to establish some fairly reasonable, agreed upon rules that you both follow, and asking her to agree that she doesn't get to add new rules outside of what's been agreed on in that meeting. Think about the kinds of things you'd want to have as rules (possibly one could be 'all discussions about dishes etc to take place during house meetings').
For me though, the only thing that really helped was to mentally designate this person 'my nightmare housemate' and trying to think of every unreasonable they say and do as 'something my nightmare housemate did' that was totally in keeping with their status as a total nightmare, rather than trying to expect them to behave reasonably and getting upset when they don't. It helps to have friends who don't live with you and are willing to take your side about the nightmare housemate. This approach also means trying to get out of the living situation as soon as you can, while de-escalating as much as possible while you're still there. Especially as it's a new living situation, you want to try to keep things calm while recognising that you're not going to be a good fit for living together in the longer term.
posted by chives at 2:25 PM on September 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
It might be worth trying to talk about it in a house meeting to establish some fairly reasonable, agreed upon rules that you both follow, and asking her to agree that she doesn't get to add new rules outside of what's been agreed on in that meeting. Think about the kinds of things you'd want to have as rules (possibly one could be 'all discussions about dishes etc to take place during house meetings').
For me though, the only thing that really helped was to mentally designate this person 'my nightmare housemate' and trying to think of every unreasonable they say and do as 'something my nightmare housemate did' that was totally in keeping with their status as a total nightmare, rather than trying to expect them to behave reasonably and getting upset when they don't. It helps to have friends who don't live with you and are willing to take your side about the nightmare housemate. This approach also means trying to get out of the living situation as soon as you can, while de-escalating as much as possible while you're still there. Especially as it's a new living situation, you want to try to keep things calm while recognising that you're not going to be a good fit for living together in the longer term.
posted by chives at 2:25 PM on September 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes, you sound like a difficult person to live with, and their irritation is justified.
posted by brainwane at 2:40 PM on September 21, 2023 [33 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 2:40 PM on September 21, 2023 [33 favorites]
I think her annoyance is reasonable (especially about the keys! that would drive me nuts) but I also agree with asimplemouse that she seems to be taking a fairly aggressive approach to addressing it when she's just moved into your space.
In general, the "new" person tends to be more deferential to the original resident, and ideally the original resident recognizes the power imbalance and goes at least a little bit out of their way to accommodate the newcomer. Since this isn't happening (on either end), you're seeing friction.
posted by mskyle at 2:49 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
In general, the "new" person tends to be more deferential to the original resident, and ideally the original resident recognizes the power imbalance and goes at least a little bit out of their way to accommodate the newcomer. Since this isn't happening (on either end), you're seeing friction.
posted by mskyle at 2:49 PM on September 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think it'd be pretty tough to transition to living with a roommate, and I think you are feeling a bit defensive about some reasonable requests, like a key to shared amenities being kept in a consistent spot available to you both. She might be a bit exasperated at needing to communicate that.
In general, I can't think of many situations where this is a good or healthy way to communicate: "you don't have to get upset about all of this."
You seem to be reacting to her tone and way of asking for things, calling them demands rather than requests. It sounds to me like she's asking for some more consideration of her as a housemate. If you can take a few deep breaths, and mean it sincerely, I might suggestion a conversation in person that goes something like this: "Hey, roomie, I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot. It's been a long time since I've have a roommate, and I'm still figuring it out and feeling a bit defensive at times when the real story is that it's been ages since I've had to worry about someone else in the apartment. Can we have a conversation about getting things set up in a way that works for both of us?"
Can you do that? In coming here rather than talking to her, it looks like you're doing that thing of trying to find the bad guy and desperately needing to to be her, rather than at looking at this is a relationship and communication issue to be resolved where no one is fully right or wrong.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:42 PM on September 21, 2023 [22 favorites]
In general, I can't think of many situations where this is a good or healthy way to communicate: "you don't have to get upset about all of this."
You seem to be reacting to her tone and way of asking for things, calling them demands rather than requests. It sounds to me like she's asking for some more consideration of her as a housemate. If you can take a few deep breaths, and mean it sincerely, I might suggestion a conversation in person that goes something like this: "Hey, roomie, I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot. It's been a long time since I've have a roommate, and I'm still figuring it out and feeling a bit defensive at times when the real story is that it's been ages since I've had to worry about someone else in the apartment. Can we have a conversation about getting things set up in a way that works for both of us?"
Can you do that? In coming here rather than talking to her, it looks like you're doing that thing of trying to find the bad guy and desperately needing to to be her, rather than at looking at this is a relationship and communication issue to be resolved where no one is fully right or wrong.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:42 PM on September 21, 2023 [22 favorites]
Her requests sound fairly reasonable to me, but her rude and aggressive way of phrasing them is not, unless you are leaving out previous, politer or more neutral attempts. She might just be a rude person who likes to dominate, in which case you are probably not compatible over the longer term. Having a plan for that eventuality is a good idea. In the meantime, reducing areas of friction by getting duplicate keys to shared amenities, agreeing in kitchen procedures, etc. might help.
posted by rpfields at 4:00 PM on September 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 4:00 PM on September 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
As a sidebar, the (sorry, but people in Africa and worldwide are dying in poverty and you are complaining about how too far and a chore it is to grab your food?) comment is irrelevant and pretty patronizing. If we are to hold that as a standard, then virtually nothing that is written about on Metafilter or for that matter almost nothing that is discussed in general is justifiable. I would ditch that line.
posted by jcworth at 4:19 PM on September 21, 2023 [29 favorites]
posted by jcworth at 4:19 PM on September 21, 2023 [29 favorites]
Response by poster: @jcworth It feels like a first world problem.
posted by RearWindow at 4:27 PM on September 21, 2023
posted by RearWindow at 4:27 PM on September 21, 2023
Response by poster: @sm1tten The roommate is correct, but their tone is aggressive and rude to me overall.
posted by RearWindow at 4:41 PM on September 21, 2023
posted by RearWindow at 4:41 PM on September 21, 2023
I have lived in a few different countries in Africa and plenty of folks there have difficult times living with housemates as well. It's pretty universal! Truly, you are not helping your case with these assertions.
If your roommate is correct and you don't like her tone, then perhaps you might try to take the high road and say, "Gosh, you're right, and I'm sorry about that. I'll get the key onto the hook where we agreed." And then, at another point, have a check-in about how things are going in the house.
It still sounds like you are wanting her to be WRONG so you can be RIGHT, and now you are saying she is wrong because of her tone. Maybe she's a totally rude bitch, or maybe she's a bit frustrated. Do you want to be right, or do you want to figure out how to get along better?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2023 [26 favorites]
If your roommate is correct and you don't like her tone, then perhaps you might try to take the high road and say, "Gosh, you're right, and I'm sorry about that. I'll get the key onto the hook where we agreed." And then, at another point, have a check-in about how things are going in the house.
It still sounds like you are wanting her to be WRONG so you can be RIGHT, and now you are saying she is wrong because of her tone. Maybe she's a totally rude bitch, or maybe she's a bit frustrated. Do you want to be right, or do you want to figure out how to get along better?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2023 [26 favorites]
Maybe I was a bit clumsy with the key thing and maybe I am being a bit self-absorbed?
Maybe consider the possibility that your roommate’s reaction has been justified? You not putting a shared resource back where it belongs so everyone can access it isn’t clumsy, it’s inconsiderate. It really sounds like you’re demanding a high level of grace from your new roommate while refusing to extend the same to her.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 5:46 PM on September 21, 2023 [21 favorites]
Maybe consider the possibility that your roommate’s reaction has been justified? You not putting a shared resource back where it belongs so everyone can access it isn’t clumsy, it’s inconsiderate. It really sounds like you’re demanding a high level of grace from your new roommate while refusing to extend the same to her.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 5:46 PM on September 21, 2023 [21 favorites]
Is this the first time you’re living with a roommate? And how old are you? I feel like a lot of the things the roommate is asking for are pretty normal things for people living together. Shared keys go on the key hook. Shared cabinets being divided fairly is normal. Cleaning dishes as soon as you use them is normal for having roommates even if you wouldn’t do it if you lived by yourself. The roommate sounds frustrated at having to explain basic roommate stuff.
I think it sounds like you were expecting her to be somewhat deferent to you and your way of living because you were there first, whereas she is treating it more like a relationship of equals, where she is allowed to be annoyed when things aren’t accessible, common areas aren’t clean, etc.
You guys don’t really sound like very compatible roommates though honestly. I would also consider trying to find a different one as soon as the term is up.
posted by corb at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2023 [20 favorites]
I think it sounds like you were expecting her to be somewhat deferent to you and your way of living because you were there first, whereas she is treating it more like a relationship of equals, where she is allowed to be annoyed when things aren’t accessible, common areas aren’t clean, etc.
You guys don’t really sound like very compatible roommates though honestly. I would also consider trying to find a different one as soon as the term is up.
posted by corb at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2023 [20 favorites]
You sound well beyond self-absorbed and well into deeply inconsiderate and snotty, based on what you've written here.
Her complaint about you not doing the bare minimum to share the house's amenities (i.e. hang the shared keys on a hook) is about the house's shared amenities. Neither of you have been asked to solve "people dying in Africa" (which by the way, does not make it sound like you know or care much about Africa, not that it's relevant at all to the issue at hand.) Her request was reasonable. Telling her "not to get upset" about it was, if not deliberate goading, then at least foolish and rude.
If these are the examples you're sharing to show how reasonable you are, then... my advice to her would be to move out.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:42 PM on September 21, 2023 [29 favorites]
Her complaint about you not doing the bare minimum to share the house's amenities (i.e. hang the shared keys on a hook) is about the house's shared amenities. Neither of you have been asked to solve "people dying in Africa" (which by the way, does not make it sound like you know or care much about Africa, not that it's relevant at all to the issue at hand.) Her request was reasonable. Telling her "not to get upset" about it was, if not deliberate goading, then at least foolish and rude.
If these are the examples you're sharing to show how reasonable you are, then... my advice to her would be to move out.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:42 PM on September 21, 2023 [29 favorites]
New roommate friend is easily irritated, not sure if they are right?
Yes, yes they are right.
posted by nanook at 7:03 PM on September 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes, yes they are right.
posted by nanook at 7:03 PM on September 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
I know it's stressful to get a roommate, but I feel like the things this person is asking are reasonable. You say their tone is aggressive- but saying "can you please put it back in the same spot" doesn't seem particularly aggressive to me. It does seem like there's a big mismatch in communication styles and expectations here that needs to be sorted out.
I said you don't have to get upset about all of this, and she said please don't tell me how I feel.
Maybe she isn't actually upset? Or didn't start out upset? It's not unreasonable to want shared amenities to truly be shared in a way that everyone has equal access. And you're not being unreasonable by not wanting to be treated rudely, but none of what you've quoted from her so far seems rude.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:11 PM on September 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
I said you don't have to get upset about all of this, and she said please don't tell me how I feel.
Maybe she isn't actually upset? Or didn't start out upset? It's not unreasonable to want shared amenities to truly be shared in a way that everyone has equal access. And you're not being unreasonable by not wanting to be treated rudely, but none of what you've quoted from her so far seems rude.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:11 PM on September 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
In my cultural context (not US) her behaviour would be considered rude and unpleasant. The standard way to ask for things that are reasonable e.g. the key thing would be “would you mind TERRIBLY putting it in X place, thanks, so sorry, ahahaha!” and the appropriate response from you would be “of COURSE, I am so so SO sorry, [lots of it apologising about leaving the key in an inconvenient place]” and she would go “no that’s fine, ha ha ha” and you would go “ahaha ha ha!” and thus, the moment would pass and everyone would feel fine about it. The way she seems to be phrasing her requests (with the caveat, as always, that this assumes you are painting a fairly accurate view of the interactions) sounds hostile, and I read your “you don’t have to get upset about these things” as a not unreasonable response to someone coming at you with anger over minor annoyances, in your own living space.
The best response, in the short term, if you are misreading the situation and are more annoying than you think you are, or she is less aggressive than you think she is, is to be super super nice, kind and considerate to her. And the best response, in the short term, if you are not misreading the situation and she is in fact inappropriately angry over minor things, is also to be super super nice and kind and considerate to her. That may calm her nervous system down enough that she responds in kind and you get back into a benevolent dynamic. While you are trying this strategy you can make plans as how to exit this situation as quickly as possible, should it not work.
posted by snipsnapsnoop at 10:47 PM on September 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
The best response, in the short term, if you are misreading the situation and are more annoying than you think you are, or she is less aggressive than you think she is, is to be super super nice, kind and considerate to her. And the best response, in the short term, if you are not misreading the situation and she is in fact inappropriately angry over minor things, is also to be super super nice and kind and considerate to her. That may calm her nervous system down enough that she responds in kind and you get back into a benevolent dynamic. While you are trying this strategy you can make plans as how to exit this situation as quickly as possible, should it not work.
posted by snipsnapsnoop at 10:47 PM on September 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
Some people just complain. Practice letting people complain without proactively making it your problem.
Set up a time for housemate talk. The feeling of aggression can be in the approach not the content. In other words, if someone comes up to you and jumps right into making a complaint, that can feel super harsh. Set up a weekly meeting, try to have some pleasant snack or chitchat to soften the message for each other. Surely you have requests too.
posted by dum spiro spero at 12:51 AM on September 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Set up a time for housemate talk. The feeling of aggression can be in the approach not the content. In other words, if someone comes up to you and jumps right into making a complaint, that can feel super harsh. Set up a weekly meeting, try to have some pleasant snack or chitchat to soften the message for each other. Surely you have requests too.
posted by dum spiro spero at 12:51 AM on September 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yes, some of this depends on cultural context. I suspect snipsnapsnoop is from the same passive-agressive (or face-saving overly polite) culture that I'm from as I entirely recognise the exchange described. In that context I'd find the conversations you've described overly aggressive. But if you're living in a more direct culture then they probably are within a normal range. Setting that aside, if you want to claim the moral high ground (and who doesn't), you do need to adjust what you do.
posted by plonkee at 1:51 AM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 1:51 AM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
In a Canadian urban context, both roommates could be any cultural background. Socioeconomic background counts too, in Toronto anyway, like, Agincourt is like “hey don’t park there,” and the Beach/es is like “I will sigh as I pass you and go post on Facebook about your car.” In both neighbourhoods though, if someone were obviously struggling to get groceries out of the car, a neighbour would stop and help. In Ottawa it’s a bit more WASPy or was when I was in an apartment there, but with super direct francophone people thrown in. (Is your roommate francophone? She sounds like my Acadian roommate, who is still a great friend but also suuuuuper direct. My Québecois one was too.)
Anyways, I think really if “this is a first world problem” is your attitude, you should drop the roommate idea, or at least this roommate. Judging your roommate’s need for access to mail, building facilities, quiet, and cupboard space as frivolous, and that it’s bothering enough for you to post, and knowing that you are pursuing an overseas grad program plus art history courses here (that you are self-funding, which is about as first world as we get here in the middle class) so you’ll be mostly in the condo a lot thinking academic thoughts about the world from the sort of ivory tower including, if I remember, food cooperatives, I don’t see this as a good situation for your roommate.
It’s not the communication issue, but the way you’re approaching it. You’re criticizing both her approach (which could be abrasive) and her needs. Don’t do the latter.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:48 AM on September 22, 2023 [32 favorites]
Anyways, I think really if “this is a first world problem” is your attitude, you should drop the roommate idea, or at least this roommate. Judging your roommate’s need for access to mail, building facilities, quiet, and cupboard space as frivolous, and that it’s bothering enough for you to post, and knowing that you are pursuing an overseas grad program plus art history courses here (that you are self-funding, which is about as first world as we get here in the middle class) so you’ll be mostly in the condo a lot thinking academic thoughts about the world from the sort of ivory tower including, if I remember, food cooperatives, I don’t see this as a good situation for your roommate.
It’s not the communication issue, but the way you’re approaching it. You’re criticizing both her approach (which could be abrasive) and her needs. Don’t do the latter.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:48 AM on September 22, 2023 [32 favorites]
Some people have said she’s being unreasonable about the A/C, but I don’t think so. Excessive noise is a serious health issue. There are things you can do about it. I’ll leave it to the two of you to figure out exactly what, but your assertion that “not much can be done” is clearly false.
posted by wheatlets at 4:02 AM on September 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wheatlets at 4:02 AM on September 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wait, you kept possession or misplaced the keys to the gym, pool and mailbox so that she was unable to use them when she wanted to? And you left your dishes dirty the first week you had a new roommate?
You’ve framed your question as if you’re super innocent and she’s uptight… but reading between the lines, I actually think you’re being outrageously inconsiderate and the fault lies with you.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 5:57 AM on September 22, 2023 [30 favorites]
You’ve framed your question as if you’re super innocent and she’s uptight… but reading between the lines, I actually think you’re being outrageously inconsiderate and the fault lies with you.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 5:57 AM on September 22, 2023 [30 favorites]
I think it’s relevant that you are not neurotypical (per a previous Ask). Is she?
I think this is a communication style mismatch. And maybe a cultural difference.
posted by quiet wanderer at 7:06 AM on September 22, 2023
I think this is a communication style mismatch. And maybe a cultural difference.
posted by quiet wanderer at 7:06 AM on September 22, 2023
So let's reframe this a bit and pretend your roommate is writing the question.
Your roommate sometimes doesn't have access to the entertainment area and their mail. They may spend time looking for the keys but can't find them as a result. You get the priority space in the cupboard due to seniority, similarly your bedroom is not affected by the AC noise due to having first choice of room. They're told they don't have to get upset about anything.
And the whole first world problem thing... yeah, if this is your best presented version of the situation, you are the bad roommate. I'd say you have a lot of introspection to do, but I don't think you're going to do that given your responses.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:27 AM on September 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Your roommate sometimes doesn't have access to the entertainment area and their mail. They may spend time looking for the keys but can't find them as a result. You get the priority space in the cupboard due to seniority, similarly your bedroom is not affected by the AC noise due to having first choice of room. They're told they don't have to get upset about anything.
And the whole first world problem thing... yeah, if this is your best presented version of the situation, you are the bad roommate. I'd say you have a lot of introspection to do, but I don't think you're going to do that given your responses.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:27 AM on September 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
kind of surprised by some of the answers you're getting, so offering this as a data point. for the record, i am the person in the pair who gets upset about small things, albeit usually not small things that have happened once or twice.
i feel like the person moving in to the other person's apartment is the one who should adapt more, if anyone should. ideally, though, i think it's more like the old saying about marriage -- it's 60/40, and both sides should be giving the 60. so just saying that it seems to be a bit chesty to move in to someone else's apartment and get huffy about stuff this minor this early on, but maybe your 60 includes being more accommodating and stopping and thinking things like 'ok, that actually is a better spot for the mail key,' if in fact it is.
all of the things you say she wanted seem reasonable to me. but we start teaching kids at, like, 2 that you say please and thank you, and i'd say requests instead of demands is at minimum a corollary of that. none of the things she asked (or even mandated) are outrageous to bring up, but the way she broached them is way off, for me. i'm assuming here that the dishes thing was one time, based on how you wrote it; if you forget much more often than that, might side with her on that one.
and no, You don't have to get upset about all of this is not the best way to phrase how you were feeling. but that doesn't mean you should have to live with someone if they're frequently upset with you over things you don't think merit it. i approve of advocating for yourself, but make it about yourself; instead of telling her what she should or shouldn't feel, just say that when she's talked to you about the mail key and whatever else, she's seemed upset with you, and you'd like things to be more amiable. so maybe she can hold off on talking to you until a thing is less something that's pissing her off and more a small problem to be solved. starting at pissed off isn't typical, and people who don't have problems getting along with other people usually at least keep from showing it the first time something doesn't go their way. you'd be within your rights to frame it as your not being interested in being talked to like that, but it likely will be more effective to instead say something like I find i respond better to this sort of approach, and that i don't get defensive, so it works out better for both of us.
if your issue here is with what she said as much as it is with how she said it, that's different. i'm also reading most of your examples as one-time things, where others above seem to just be assuming you're a habitual offender. and either way, most people above are at least right that this isn't a great match.
posted by troywestfield at 11:49 AM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
i feel like the person moving in to the other person's apartment is the one who should adapt more, if anyone should. ideally, though, i think it's more like the old saying about marriage -- it's 60/40, and both sides should be giving the 60. so just saying that it seems to be a bit chesty to move in to someone else's apartment and get huffy about stuff this minor this early on, but maybe your 60 includes being more accommodating and stopping and thinking things like 'ok, that actually is a better spot for the mail key,' if in fact it is.
all of the things you say she wanted seem reasonable to me. but we start teaching kids at, like, 2 that you say please and thank you, and i'd say requests instead of demands is at minimum a corollary of that. none of the things she asked (or even mandated) are outrageous to bring up, but the way she broached them is way off, for me. i'm assuming here that the dishes thing was one time, based on how you wrote it; if you forget much more often than that, might side with her on that one.
and no, You don't have to get upset about all of this is not the best way to phrase how you were feeling. but that doesn't mean you should have to live with someone if they're frequently upset with you over things you don't think merit it. i approve of advocating for yourself, but make it about yourself; instead of telling her what she should or shouldn't feel, just say that when she's talked to you about the mail key and whatever else, she's seemed upset with you, and you'd like things to be more amiable. so maybe she can hold off on talking to you until a thing is less something that's pissing her off and more a small problem to be solved. starting at pissed off isn't typical, and people who don't have problems getting along with other people usually at least keep from showing it the first time something doesn't go their way. you'd be within your rights to frame it as your not being interested in being talked to like that, but it likely will be more effective to instead say something like I find i respond better to this sort of approach, and that i don't get defensive, so it works out better for both of us.
if your issue here is with what she said as much as it is with how she said it, that's different. i'm also reading most of your examples as one-time things, where others above seem to just be assuming you're a habitual offender. and either way, most people above are at least right that this isn't a great match.
posted by troywestfield at 11:49 AM on September 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
By the way, are you the owner of the condo - i.e., your roommate's landlord - or are you both renting?
posted by trig at 1:55 PM on September 22, 2023
posted by trig at 1:55 PM on September 22, 2023
In Ontario if you share a kitchen that’s a boarder, not a tenant, and doesn’t fall under the Landlord and Tenant act. Then it depends on any contracts.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:17 PM on September 22, 2023
posted by warriorqueen at 2:17 PM on September 22, 2023
When you live alone, it's easy to get into habits that should be re-evaluated if you begin sharing your space with someone else. You are doing things that feel normal to you but are inconsiderate of your new roommate, and then you're blaming them for getting upset about it.
Put the shared keys back in their proper place as soon as you're done with them, wash your dirty dishes in a timely fashion, and see if things get any better.
posted by wondermouse at 4:08 PM on September 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Put the shared keys back in their proper place as soon as you're done with them, wash your dirty dishes in a timely fashion, and see if things get any better.
posted by wondermouse at 4:08 PM on September 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I mean, I have ADHD and I am a terrible housekeeper. I ROUTINELY do all of those things you mentioned: misplacing keys, leaving dishes dirty, forgetting to put things away, etc. So I know what it's like to be a scatterbrain, I know how silly and automatic and unintentional my messiness and disorganization is. But I'm not in denial about the impact it has on other people. I would not expect anyone else to suck it up and be fine with my mistakes.
Your roommate wasn't able to use the entertainment facilities. Your roommate couldn't get her mail. Your roommate found dirty dishes put away in the clean dishes spot. She does not have to tolerate any of this.
When I'm living with others, I not only make a hell of an effort to check, double check, triple check all shared items and spaces, I am also always ready to make abject apologies and amends whenever I fail. As I've grown older and acquired better coping skills for ADHD, I troubleshoot this stuff in advance, too, with fail-safes and backup plans. The one time I shared a non-duplicable lab access key with a partner, I spent HOURS on the very first day finding out and then printing out a detailed protocol for what to do if the key was lost, then I laminated it and stuck it on our shared magnetic board, so that whoever needed the key could easily see the exact number to call and the exact magic words to say to gain temporary visitor-permit access to the lab, plus I could easily follow the steps to pay fines/fill forms to get a new one. <--- This is what you need to be doing. Take responsibility for your proclivities and lax habits. Apologize. Make amends. Make a plan to stop this happening. Make another plan for when fuckups happen.
posted by MiraK at 10:08 PM on September 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Your roommate wasn't able to use the entertainment facilities. Your roommate couldn't get her mail. Your roommate found dirty dishes put away in the clean dishes spot. She does not have to tolerate any of this.
When I'm living with others, I not only make a hell of an effort to check, double check, triple check all shared items and spaces, I am also always ready to make abject apologies and amends whenever I fail. As I've grown older and acquired better coping skills for ADHD, I troubleshoot this stuff in advance, too, with fail-safes and backup plans. The one time I shared a non-duplicable lab access key with a partner, I spent HOURS on the very first day finding out and then printing out a detailed protocol for what to do if the key was lost, then I laminated it and stuck it on our shared magnetic board, so that whoever needed the key could easily see the exact number to call and the exact magic words to say to gain temporary visitor-permit access to the lab, plus I could easily follow the steps to pay fines/fill forms to get a new one. <--- This is what you need to be doing. Take responsibility for your proclivities and lax habits. Apologize. Make amends. Make a plan to stop this happening. Make another plan for when fuckups happen.
posted by MiraK at 10:08 PM on September 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Oh and get tracking tags for the keys!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:35 PM on September 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:35 PM on September 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by MillyMath at 12:50 PM on September 21, 2023 [22 favorites]