Oh no thank you, I dont want to play Roblox.
August 22, 2023 1:08 PM Subscribe
My good friend takes care of her grandchild— a lot. She has repeatedly invited me to her house for dinner and drinks but the grandchild will be there. I have turned her down twice now and she is angry.
My friend loves her grandkid and loves taking care of them (of course!!) and does so often to help out her own kid. My friend also has a very active social life—she is scheduled out for months, takes trips and weekends, dinners, etc. I don’t think that she is a caregiver who doesn’t get out on her own. I know many other caregivers might not be in the same position.
She has asked me a couple of different times to come and have dinner (she lives ~ half hour to and hour away depending on traffic). What happens is she plans that we’ll go out somewhere, then it’s going to her house and having dinner with her grandkid there. They are about nine years old. While they are a very nice kid, they are the the only grandchild. Understandably and developmentally, this child wants to be the center of attention all the time. It’s just how it happens at that age, and the fact that this child is the only grandkid. I’ve gone to dinner at her house at least twice under these circumstances, where I think I’m going somewhere with her and her partner, then it’s moved to her house and the grandchild is present. I know why she’s doing this: she’s helping out her own kid. Awesome!
I do not have children, and I don’t have any nieces or nephews. I don’t hang out with children. And I don’t really like to. I never have. It’s not that this child is badly behaved or that this child is impossible to be around, but I don’t like being in a situation where it’s mixed age company—adults and children—and it’s supposed to be an adult night. Without being too specific, this might be a cultural difference between me and my friend.
So, I emailed her the first time she offered this recently and said why don’t we reschedule at a time when you’re free. This time you can enjoy your evening with your grandchild. We rescheduled, and she just let me know that the grandchild was going to be there again. I was a little more direct in my email to her and said let’s get together when you can have an adult night. I suggested some alternate plans around where I live and around where she lives. She did not respond well.
She’s clearly angry with me and thinks that I hate her grandchild. She also made it clear to me that she never knows when she’s going to be having the grandchild so making these plans is really difficult. While I understand that, she does book out for months for plans on weekends. I’m willing to wait, I really just don’t want to hang out with her grandkid. And to be honest, I feel a little shoehorned in. I completely understand not having time to yourself because you have to watch a child or a grandchild in the sense that while I don’t do it, I have sympathy for those who do. I think the issue here is that I’m confused that she can schedule out for other events, but this is sort of how I get put into her calendar.
Am I the jerk? Any other friends that she tends to schedule in like this don’t seem to mind because they themselves have children or grandchildren.
What can I do to help support this relationship? I don’t want her to think I hate her grandkid, but I also just don’t hang out with children.
I am especially interested in answers from parents or grandparents who may have been in the situation with one of their friends.
My friend loves her grandkid and loves taking care of them (of course!!) and does so often to help out her own kid. My friend also has a very active social life—she is scheduled out for months, takes trips and weekends, dinners, etc. I don’t think that she is a caregiver who doesn’t get out on her own. I know many other caregivers might not be in the same position.
She has asked me a couple of different times to come and have dinner (she lives ~ half hour to and hour away depending on traffic). What happens is she plans that we’ll go out somewhere, then it’s going to her house and having dinner with her grandkid there. They are about nine years old. While they are a very nice kid, they are the the only grandchild. Understandably and developmentally, this child wants to be the center of attention all the time. It’s just how it happens at that age, and the fact that this child is the only grandkid. I’ve gone to dinner at her house at least twice under these circumstances, where I think I’m going somewhere with her and her partner, then it’s moved to her house and the grandchild is present. I know why she’s doing this: she’s helping out her own kid. Awesome!
I do not have children, and I don’t have any nieces or nephews. I don’t hang out with children. And I don’t really like to. I never have. It’s not that this child is badly behaved or that this child is impossible to be around, but I don’t like being in a situation where it’s mixed age company—adults and children—and it’s supposed to be an adult night. Without being too specific, this might be a cultural difference between me and my friend.
So, I emailed her the first time she offered this recently and said why don’t we reschedule at a time when you’re free. This time you can enjoy your evening with your grandchild. We rescheduled, and she just let me know that the grandchild was going to be there again. I was a little more direct in my email to her and said let’s get together when you can have an adult night. I suggested some alternate plans around where I live and around where she lives. She did not respond well.
She’s clearly angry with me and thinks that I hate her grandchild. She also made it clear to me that she never knows when she’s going to be having the grandchild so making these plans is really difficult. While I understand that, she does book out for months for plans on weekends. I’m willing to wait, I really just don’t want to hang out with her grandkid. And to be honest, I feel a little shoehorned in. I completely understand not having time to yourself because you have to watch a child or a grandchild in the sense that while I don’t do it, I have sympathy for those who do. I think the issue here is that I’m confused that she can schedule out for other events, but this is sort of how I get put into her calendar.
Am I the jerk? Any other friends that she tends to schedule in like this don’t seem to mind because they themselves have children or grandchildren.
What can I do to help support this relationship? I don’t want her to think I hate her grandkid, but I also just don’t hang out with children.
I am especially interested in answers from parents or grandparents who may have been in the situation with one of their friends.
I'm a parent who does not assume that everyone wants to hang out with my child just because they're hanging out with me. I always give people the option (which means that I don't initiate a lot because I need to arrange things with my husband or a babysitter to make this happen because I do not have the luxury of a grandmother nearby!)
You're not the jerk. When you have a grandkid over, and a dinner guest, the dinner guest is also sort of on childcare duty, which is not what most people want! It's not about hating the grandchild. Wanting adult time with your friend and not sort-of childcaring with your friend is not unreasonable.
posted by *s at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
You're not the jerk. When you have a grandkid over, and a dinner guest, the dinner guest is also sort of on childcare duty, which is not what most people want! It's not about hating the grandchild. Wanting adult time with your friend and not sort-of childcaring with your friend is not unreasonable.
posted by *s at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Gently, and as someone who has never had kids, does not want kids, and, while having nothing against kids, generally would not choose spending a whole evening with random unrelated kids over other options: this inflexibility will not serve you well in this relationship. I feel like my managing to maintain any friendships at all with my female friends around my age who've had kids has hinged on being willing to be flexible in this regard. Your friend is in a situation right now where sometimes (twice? you don't really clarify how often this has happened in the past) she finds herself stuck on short notice with childcare duties. She's still trying to fit you in, which means she still likes you and wants to spend time with you (and trusts you around her grandkid!). If you insist on adult-only evenings, you may see her rarely or at all. The choice may be that straightforward. And it is your choice, but you can't make her not be angry or sad about that.
Anyway, this is a nine-year-old. What time are they going to bed, like 8:30 pm? It seems like there'd still be a healthy amount of time afterwards for adult conversation (and beverages).
(You may or may not care about this, but: as you get older, failing to have and maintain good relationships with younger generations will very likely cost you, in terms of vitality and connections and even assistance.)
posted by praemunire at 1:20 PM on August 22, 2023 [36 favorites]
Anyway, this is a nine-year-old. What time are they going to bed, like 8:30 pm? It seems like there'd still be a healthy amount of time afterwards for adult conversation (and beverages).
(You may or may not care about this, but: as you get older, failing to have and maintain good relationships with younger generations will very likely cost you, in terms of vitality and connections and even assistance.)
posted by praemunire at 1:20 PM on August 22, 2023 [36 favorites]
(If you want a specific "am I the jerk" ruling: neither of you are jerks, but your needs may be incompatible. I am just inviting you to consider whether what you yourself perceive are your needs are really so strong.)
posted by praemunire at 1:22 PM on August 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 1:22 PM on August 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
She wants her grandson around; you don't want to be around her grandson. Neither of you is wrong. She loves the child and is hurt that you don't. if you want to continue the relationship, you could choose to get together at a park or museum the child might enjoy.
posted by theora55 at 1:23 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 1:23 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I guess I don't quite see why the nine year-old being there makes it impossible to have adult time. As already mentioned, presumably they go to bed earlier than the adults. But also, nine is old enough to be somewhat independent - why can't the kid watch a movie while you converse in another room?
Basically, I think your desire to hang out as adults is reasonable, but it seems like there should be a solution you can find that can still allow the kid to be in the house.
posted by coffeecat at 1:24 PM on August 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
Basically, I think your desire to hang out as adults is reasonable, but it seems like there should be a solution you can find that can still allow the kid to be in the house.
posted by coffeecat at 1:24 PM on August 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
I really like (some) kids and will happily hang out with them. I don't enjoy hanging out with them and their parents at the same time, because I can't switch my brain between Adult Mode and Kid Mode quickly enough. I end up ignoring one or other of them and feeling bad about it.
I do think it's reasonable, though, for folks with kids in their lives to pull back a bit from those of their friends who aren't adaptable enough to fit in around kid life. It's nobody's fault, but ultimately the kids come first and sometimes that means the friendships have to come second. I'm also not surprised that she's grumpy about that (it's sad for her to see her life rearranged like this, even if the childcare situation is her choice).
When my best friend had a kid, the friendship was important enough to me to want to adapt myself to her new reality, so some things I did were
- not planning things in advance, but moving to texting "is now a good time?" and doing something else if not
- being friends with the kid
- being available to help with the kid
- bringing food over for everyone sometimes
- ditching many of our previous activities in favour of more kid compatible ones, sometimes including things like going doing supermarket shopping together.
- spending more time interacting with her asynchronously via chat
- just accepting that a lot of our time together would in fact be centered around this small person
Not all of these things are applicable to your situation necessarily, but you can see that it required some lateral thinking and flexibility to make it work.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:36 PM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I do think it's reasonable, though, for folks with kids in their lives to pull back a bit from those of their friends who aren't adaptable enough to fit in around kid life. It's nobody's fault, but ultimately the kids come first and sometimes that means the friendships have to come second. I'm also not surprised that she's grumpy about that (it's sad for her to see her life rearranged like this, even if the childcare situation is her choice).
When my best friend had a kid, the friendship was important enough to me to want to adapt myself to her new reality, so some things I did were
- not planning things in advance, but moving to texting "is now a good time?" and doing something else if not
- being friends with the kid
- being available to help with the kid
- bringing food over for everyone sometimes
- ditching many of our previous activities in favour of more kid compatible ones, sometimes including things like going doing supermarket shopping together.
- spending more time interacting with her asynchronously via chat
- just accepting that a lot of our time together would in fact be centered around this small person
Not all of these things are applicable to your situation necessarily, but you can see that it required some lateral thinking and flexibility to make it work.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:36 PM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
It seems like this is a situation where you could compromise and hang out with your friend's grandchild occasionally to preserve the friendship. The grandchild is not going to want to be the center of your friend's attention forever; pretty soon they're going to want to go off and play on their phone and watch a movie or read a book or whatever, or they're going to be on a travel soccer team or something that means they don't even have time to hang out with her. (Honestly even at nine most of the kids I know would not want to hang out with grandma and an uninterested adult.)
I also think rather than emphasizing to your friend that you want adult-catch-up time with her you should just come right out and tell her that you're uncomfortable around kids in general, and make it clear that it's a you thing, not a Grandkid thing.
Also I do wonder if there are smaller tweaks you could make to the way you spend the evening at your friend's house that would make time with Grandkid more palatable to you. I feel like the two ways to go for it are to either show up later so that Grandkid is likely to be going to sleep soon (although I know bedtime can vary a lot culturally and family-to-family), or doubling down and doing a kid-friendly activity like watching a family-friendly movie together or playing an all-ages board game (basically make something other than Grandkid the center of attention).
posted by mskyle at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I also think rather than emphasizing to your friend that you want adult-catch-up time with her you should just come right out and tell her that you're uncomfortable around kids in general, and make it clear that it's a you thing, not a Grandkid thing.
Also I do wonder if there are smaller tweaks you could make to the way you spend the evening at your friend's house that would make time with Grandkid more palatable to you. I feel like the two ways to go for it are to either show up later so that Grandkid is likely to be going to sleep soon (although I know bedtime can vary a lot culturally and family-to-family), or doubling down and doing a kid-friendly activity like watching a family-friendly movie together or playing an all-ages board game (basically make something other than Grandkid the center of attention).
posted by mskyle at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
How diplomatic do you want to be?
Sorta diplomatic: I don't deal with children well, not just yours, all children. I am not ready to be a co-sitter along your side. As you clearly enjoy your grandchild's presence, that you'd make time any day or night, I would not trouble you with my presence.
posted by kschang at 1:47 PM on August 22, 2023
Sorta diplomatic: I don't deal with children well, not just yours, all children. I am not ready to be a co-sitter along your side. As you clearly enjoy your grandchild's presence, that you'd make time any day or night, I would not trouble you with my presence.
posted by kschang at 1:47 PM on August 22, 2023
I don't think you're in the wrong, but it sounds like dinner with grandkid will be necessary at least sometimes to preserve the relationship.
Is the problem mainly that the kid WON'T STOP TALKING about Roblox or their other Interests and wants to involve you in it? Or are there other behaviors that are unpleasant for you?
There might be some ways of making the kid bearable but is that work you really want to do?
posted by Baethan at 1:49 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is the problem mainly that the kid WON'T STOP TALKING about Roblox or their other Interests and wants to involve you in it? Or are there other behaviors that are unpleasant for you?
There might be some ways of making the kid bearable but is that work you really want to do?
posted by Baethan at 1:49 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
So, a couple of things. First:
I 10000% feel you on this. I happen to be a parent, but do not want to hang out with other people's children socially (except in specific all-family contexts -- and even then it's not my favorite thing.) They're generally not good or interesting company. So no, I mean, there's nothing unreasonable in not wanting your friend time to become hang out with 9 year old time. And I don't blame you for being annoyed that she manages to schedule other stuff for times when she's out, but hasn't managed to prioritize scheduling you in the same way, although I suspect there's more to those choices than you know about.
HOWEVER
As someone else mentioned above, this is a very temporary situation (in two years the kid won't want anything to do with you or her, believe me) and the way you handle this now is going to affect the future of your friendship for years to come. It is HARD to make new adult friends, and old friends become even more precious as we age. If you want to keep this one, you're going to have to be flexible now; and I think that's going to mean having to both back down on this and assure your friend that you don't dislike the kid (regardless of how true it is. It's fine with me if you do dislike the kid, just make sure she never has reason to know it.)
So I'd call her -- this is important, don't do it with email -- and say "Phyllis, of course I don't dislike Benedictus. It's just that I've always felt kind of awkward around kids and I'm not used to having one around when I'm with my adult friends. But I want to learn! So by all means let's get together this Sunday. It'll be great to see you." And just roll with it for now. Think of it as an investment of patience into the fund of your FUTURE friendship.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:56 PM on August 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
I 10000% feel you on this. I happen to be a parent, but do not want to hang out with other people's children socially (except in specific all-family contexts -- and even then it's not my favorite thing.) They're generally not good or interesting company. So no, I mean, there's nothing unreasonable in not wanting your friend time to become hang out with 9 year old time. And I don't blame you for being annoyed that she manages to schedule other stuff for times when she's out, but hasn't managed to prioritize scheduling you in the same way, although I suspect there's more to those choices than you know about.
HOWEVER
As someone else mentioned above, this is a very temporary situation (in two years the kid won't want anything to do with you or her, believe me) and the way you handle this now is going to affect the future of your friendship for years to come. It is HARD to make new adult friends, and old friends become even more precious as we age. If you want to keep this one, you're going to have to be flexible now; and I think that's going to mean having to both back down on this and assure your friend that you don't dislike the kid (regardless of how true it is. It's fine with me if you do dislike the kid, just make sure she never has reason to know it.)
So I'd call her -- this is important, don't do it with email -- and say "Phyllis, of course I don't dislike Benedictus. It's just that I've always felt kind of awkward around kids and I'm not used to having one around when I'm with my adult friends. But I want to learn! So by all means let's get together this Sunday. It'll be great to see you." And just roll with it for now. Think of it as an investment of patience into the fund of your FUTURE friendship.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:56 PM on August 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
I think the issue here is that I’m confused that she can schedule out for other events, but this is sort of how I get put into her calendar.
I think you're getting great advice. For some insight on this scheduling piece, when my kids were too young to be left alone (and we had two adults in the house) I did some math where I figured out that I had at best three child-free "prime time" periods a week, or average 12 a month (for ease let's call them evenings; I was working) where I had to fit in:
- adult-only appointments (hair/optometrist/dental cleaning/etc.)
- exercise and any other child-unfriendly hobbies
- group friend activities (adult birthday celebrations, etc.)
- seeing any of my child-unfriendly friends
So if I did adult exercise (yoga) twice a week = 4 slots left, appointments average one a month = 3 slots left, adult group activities, was at that time running about 1 month = 2
So that's two child-free periods a month to hang out with adults, and given I had about 6 childfree friends that worked out to seeing them once a quarter. This is not counting time with my spouse etc.
Since Before Kids I had basically 5 nights a week plus weekends...big difference.
I'd suggest that if she's getting dumped with a school-age child, and you can manage it, the best solution would be to meet her during the school day. But if you're both working and you can't manage that, maybe it's working with her when she's not likely to be watching the grandchild - breakfast on Saturday?
I don't think anyone is a jerk here, but I do think that it will take negotiating, not just a simple "no" to work it out. I will admit that over the years, mostly my friends who were willing to meet me at things my kids could be at ended up closer because we just had more options, but that doesn't describe all my friends.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:57 PM on August 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think you're getting great advice. For some insight on this scheduling piece, when my kids were too young to be left alone (and we had two adults in the house) I did some math where I figured out that I had at best three child-free "prime time" periods a week, or average 12 a month (for ease let's call them evenings; I was working) where I had to fit in:
- adult-only appointments (hair/optometrist/dental cleaning/etc.)
- exercise and any other child-unfriendly hobbies
- group friend activities (adult birthday celebrations, etc.)
- seeing any of my child-unfriendly friends
So if I did adult exercise (yoga) twice a week = 4 slots left, appointments average one a month = 3 slots left, adult group activities, was at that time running about 1 month = 2
So that's two child-free periods a month to hang out with adults, and given I had about 6 childfree friends that worked out to seeing them once a quarter. This is not counting time with my spouse etc.
Since Before Kids I had basically 5 nights a week plus weekends...big difference.
I'd suggest that if she's getting dumped with a school-age child, and you can manage it, the best solution would be to meet her during the school day. But if you're both working and you can't manage that, maybe it's working with her when she's not likely to be watching the grandchild - breakfast on Saturday?
I don't think anyone is a jerk here, but I do think that it will take negotiating, not just a simple "no" to work it out. I will admit that over the years, mostly my friends who were willing to meet me at things my kids could be at ended up closer because we just had more options, but that doesn't describe all my friends.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:57 PM on August 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
If I were on the caregiver end of this situation, this exchange would probably have me reevaluating our friendship. It's just not practical to maintain a close relationship with someone who needs me not to have a kid. I wouldn't hate them forever or anything, but I would probably push them down the priority queue for my time rather than closer to the top. My two cents.
posted by eirias at 2:17 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by eirias at 2:17 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Neither of you is a jerk, but it sounds as if child-free time is not something your friend has to offer you at this moment in her life. If this is someone you hope to have as a lifelong or at least long-term friend, personally, I would suggest taking a deep breath and sitting through a dinner with the grandkid every once in a while. It won’t always be this way, and one day your friend will have more kid-free time again to spend with you. If you want to be able to enjoy that time with your friend then, it sounds like you need to be able to roll with some time with her grandchild now.
posted by Stacey at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
As a parent of a lovely nine year old and a lovely 12 year old who have doting grandarents, I just want to validate that YES, hanging with kid is totally different and way less relaxed than hanging sans kid.
That is why parents brag about having a child free evening.
Especially when grandparents like these are involved, the kids can take up a lion share of the oxygen in the room.
You're not wrong.
Maybe you can formulate it more positively, though. "It's not that I don't want to hang out with Kid sometimes - I do, he's smart and fun. But I miss our one-on-one time. I miss really conncting with YOU. That's why I've been pushing so hard for it. I'm sorry I sounded like I dislike him. It's not true."
posted by Omnomnom at 2:55 PM on August 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
That is why parents brag about having a child free evening.
Especially when grandparents like these are involved, the kids can take up a lion share of the oxygen in the room.
You're not wrong.
Maybe you can formulate it more positively, though. "It's not that I don't want to hang out with Kid sometimes - I do, he's smart and fun. But I miss our one-on-one time. I miss really conncting with YOU. That's why I've been pushing so hard for it. I'm sorry I sounded like I dislike him. It's not true."
posted by Omnomnom at 2:55 PM on August 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I am a parent, my son will soon be 15 and is an only child.
When he was 9, i really really struggled to go anywhere just with friends, however a year later it was possible. And now i can go off with a friend, not all night but certainly dinner.
So i think patience might pay off. Also, perhaps it is easier to meet her for brunch or lunch when the child is at school? That was something that often worked for me, provided the meeting place was not too far from school, for pick-up.
Another thing that struck me reading your question is that it sounds like you wait for her to invite you/ask you over?
Personally i would try find out what happens when you initate eg. invite her for a lunch or whatever.
You say she is angry, so it might be an opportunity to initate meeting and talk about it?
posted by 15L06 at 3:01 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
When he was 9, i really really struggled to go anywhere just with friends, however a year later it was possible. And now i can go off with a friend, not all night but certainly dinner.
So i think patience might pay off. Also, perhaps it is easier to meet her for brunch or lunch when the child is at school? That was something that often worked for me, provided the meeting place was not too far from school, for pick-up.
Another thing that struck me reading your question is that it sounds like you wait for her to invite you/ask you over?
Personally i would try find out what happens when you initate eg. invite her for a lunch or whatever.
You say she is angry, so it might be an opportunity to initate meeting and talk about it?
posted by 15L06 at 3:01 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sounds like she's said "love me, love my grandchild, we come as a package deal." She does not want to schedule adult only time with you, even though it sounds like she could.
Either you suck it up and deal with the kid periodically, or you two don't hang out. She's made her side of it clear and while you're not in the wrong to want adult time, she's said no to that (and taken offense). If you want to be friends with the childed, you have to suck it up and spend some time with them even as the parent friend constantly spends her time telling Bartholemew not to raid the candy machine. Or just...don't hang out with her. Those are the options since "politely asking for adult time" has been turned down with great force.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:13 PM on August 22, 2023
Either you suck it up and deal with the kid periodically, or you two don't hang out. She's made her side of it clear and while you're not in the wrong to want adult time, she's said no to that (and taken offense). If you want to be friends with the childed, you have to suck it up and spend some time with them even as the parent friend constantly spends her time telling Bartholemew not to raid the candy machine. Or just...don't hang out with her. Those are the options since "politely asking for adult time" has been turned down with great force.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:13 PM on August 22, 2023
I am also not into kids, but have friends with kids. I don't think you're at all a jerk.
It sounds like a big part of the frustration is something being planned as an adult evening turning into The Kid Show. That would bug me too. It makes a huge difference if kids are used to being around adult groups compared to those who are only in kid spaces as the center of attention. Could you try an activity that gives the kid something to do? Then they are with you but they also have something else to do so you can talk with your friend. You might get more friend time at the kid's soccer game while they play, or at a restaurant with a playground.
posted by sepviva at 4:15 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
It sounds like a big part of the frustration is something being planned as an adult evening turning into The Kid Show. That would bug me too. It makes a huge difference if kids are used to being around adult groups compared to those who are only in kid spaces as the center of attention. Could you try an activity that gives the kid something to do? Then they are with you but they also have something else to do so you can talk with your friend. You might get more friend time at the kid's soccer game while they play, or at a restaurant with a playground.
posted by sepviva at 4:15 PM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think the issue here is that I’m confused that she can schedule out for other events, but this is sort of how I get put into her calendar.
Yes, I think you will have to stress missing the one-on-one time, and go to your friend's house for dinner even when she is unexpectedly taking care of her grandchild.
Separately, get tickets to an 18-and-over event months in advance -- though your friend may cancel, at least your planned outing (as she doesn't see having you over for dinner at home as reserved time) exists on her calendar when she's talking with her own kid about the childcare schedule.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:22 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, I think you will have to stress missing the one-on-one time, and go to your friend's house for dinner even when she is unexpectedly taking care of her grandchild.
Separately, get tickets to an 18-and-over event months in advance -- though your friend may cancel, at least your planned outing (as she doesn't see having you over for dinner at home as reserved time) exists on her calendar when she's talking with her own kid about the childcare schedule.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:22 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ugh, I don’t think you are in the wrong at all. I have dealt with this situation a few times and it is not fun. I don’t dislike children at all but I do dislike the bait-and-switch element of this kind of thing.
I wonder if some of your friend’s frustration comes from difficulty in saying no to the child’s parents? It could be that she is dealing with a situation where certain types of commitments are seen as valid reasons to refuse babysitting and others are not, and she feels manipulated and pressured even before your reaction. If she adores the grandkid, that might make it feel worse rather than better.
In your shoes, if this was a friendship I really wanted to keep, I might apologize and then try to minimize time entertaining the kid. Your dinner has now been subsumed by babysitting? “Oh gee, that actually works out quite well because I have been delayed by XYZ, would it be okay if I just joined you for dessert?” Suggesting activities while the kid is in school, or that involve something that will keep them occupied, are also good ideas. And if you really want to bail, I would go the “diplomatic flu” route rather than saying it’s because of the kid.
But, at the end of the day, it might just be that your needs are incompatible right now. Still, I think it would be worth apologizing and explaining that this is due to your discomfort rather than dislike of this particular child. The kid will not be 9 forever and you might be able to connect again.
posted by rpfields at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wonder if some of your friend’s frustration comes from difficulty in saying no to the child’s parents? It could be that she is dealing with a situation where certain types of commitments are seen as valid reasons to refuse babysitting and others are not, and she feels manipulated and pressured even before your reaction. If she adores the grandkid, that might make it feel worse rather than better.
In your shoes, if this was a friendship I really wanted to keep, I might apologize and then try to minimize time entertaining the kid. Your dinner has now been subsumed by babysitting? “Oh gee, that actually works out quite well because I have been delayed by XYZ, would it be okay if I just joined you for dessert?” Suggesting activities while the kid is in school, or that involve something that will keep them occupied, are also good ideas. And if you really want to bail, I would go the “diplomatic flu” route rather than saying it’s because of the kid.
But, at the end of the day, it might just be that your needs are incompatible right now. Still, I think it would be worth apologizing and explaining that this is due to your discomfort rather than dislike of this particular child. The kid will not be 9 forever and you might be able to connect again.
posted by rpfields at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's rude to you that she's repeatedly agreeing to look after the child when she's made plans with you and expecting you to adapt. You're not unexpectedly bringing your own guests to dinner.
Having a kid there absolutely changes the dynamic.
She's having feelings about your feedback but frankly that's her problem not yours. Honestly, people say it's hard finding friends as an adult but I don't think it's true. Lots of people are saddled with friends that they used to like and would prefer new friends.
posted by Chrysalis at 8:30 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having a kid there absolutely changes the dynamic.
She's having feelings about your feedback but frankly that's her problem not yours. Honestly, people say it's hard finding friends as an adult but I don't think it's true. Lots of people are saddled with friends that they used to like and would prefer new friends.
posted by Chrysalis at 8:30 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Keep in mind that she may be scheduling her other child free activities... but not actually always getting to do them. She may be not getting to see the play she bought tickets for, and be missing the weekly Bridge Tournament more often than she gets to make it, but doggedly still scheduling those things instead of just giving up on having friends and a social life to ensure she's available when the grandkid needs her yet again. But at the same time she's not going to complain "Ugh, broke THREE commitments this week because kid's mother had to work late or get groceries...I have no life!"
Try use the same manners and mindset you would have if your friend had a spouse who was a nice person but not at all compatible with you. For example. picture if their spouse was heavily into sports, so going to dinner at the friend's house ended up with you listening to a rehash of the Western League Volleyball rankings all through dinner, or if their spouse was a recovering alcoholic and you had been asked to not only drink in front of them, but also not to even discuss wine.
This could help you decide how many evenings that include the grandkid would be tolerable for you. Tolerating boring spouses, or grand kids that have no common ground with you due to their age is something that we do when we want to continue to support and cultivate our friends, but at the same time you are definitely entitled to decide that you'd rather not ever go to their dinner parties if you'll just spend the whole evening glazing while someone you have no positive feelings for goes on at length about setters and liberos and middle blockers.
There is a good chance that your friend needs you to cut their kid some slack so THEY don't go buggy from boredom, but at the same time you can't phrase it that way when you discuss it with them; you can hardly tell them that you expect they loathe getting stuck the babysitting. So instead of saying that the kid's conversation is boring, phrase it in terms of you not having any common conversational ground with the grandkid.
It's worth acknowledging to your friend that she is being a better than average caretaker, giving the kid a chance to practice their social skills with adults, rather than having a seen-and-not-heard policy or fobbing the kid off with electronic media.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:53 PM on August 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Try use the same manners and mindset you would have if your friend had a spouse who was a nice person but not at all compatible with you. For example. picture if their spouse was heavily into sports, so going to dinner at the friend's house ended up with you listening to a rehash of the Western League Volleyball rankings all through dinner, or if their spouse was a recovering alcoholic and you had been asked to not only drink in front of them, but also not to even discuss wine.
This could help you decide how many evenings that include the grandkid would be tolerable for you. Tolerating boring spouses, or grand kids that have no common ground with you due to their age is something that we do when we want to continue to support and cultivate our friends, but at the same time you are definitely entitled to decide that you'd rather not ever go to their dinner parties if you'll just spend the whole evening glazing while someone you have no positive feelings for goes on at length about setters and liberos and middle blockers.
There is a good chance that your friend needs you to cut their kid some slack so THEY don't go buggy from boredom, but at the same time you can't phrase it that way when you discuss it with them; you can hardly tell them that you expect they loathe getting stuck the babysitting. So instead of saying that the kid's conversation is boring, phrase it in terms of you not having any common conversational ground with the grandkid.
It's worth acknowledging to your friend that she is being a better than average caretaker, giving the kid a chance to practice their social skills with adults, rather than having a seen-and-not-heard policy or fobbing the kid off with electronic media.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:53 PM on August 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
You mention a cultural difference here. I can tell you that in my original culture (Indian) there is a certain attitude of “if you’re my friend, you’re also my family’s friend” that makes situations like this difficult. If your friend’s culture is similar, I don’t think it’s possible to both reject spending any time with the grandchild and continue to keep your friendship. Your friend will likely just see it as rude.
posted by peacheater at 11:20 PM on August 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 11:20 PM on August 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's rude to you that she's repeatedly agreeing to look after the child when she's made plans with you and expecting you to adapt. You're not unexpectedly bringing your own guests to dinner.
I think @Chrysalis brings up a really good point here. You agreed to a plan (out to dinner, one on one) and she keeps changing it to at home, with kid, and then making you feel bad when you dont want to do that plan. If she was more direct "this is the plan, at home, with kid" then at least you would know what you were signing up for (or decline). But the way she is doing it is consistently pulling the rug out from under you and making you feel/be the bad guy.
Im not sure what the solution is, and I am also puzzled that a 9 year old wants to be involved heavily in these situations and doesnt just want to eat and then do their own thing. Is she part of a larger social group? I would maybe try to only make plans with her in group settings (3 or more) where it would be harder for her to do this to everyone.
A phone call might be in order to clear the air, but she sounds like she wants to be offended and isnt willing to see it from your perspective and isnt valuing the friendship. There might be something else at play (children having a hard time and she is stressed) but really, she should have just said that upfront. Im sorry.
posted by zara at 5:28 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think @Chrysalis brings up a really good point here. You agreed to a plan (out to dinner, one on one) and she keeps changing it to at home, with kid, and then making you feel bad when you dont want to do that plan. If she was more direct "this is the plan, at home, with kid" then at least you would know what you were signing up for (or decline). But the way she is doing it is consistently pulling the rug out from under you and making you feel/be the bad guy.
Im not sure what the solution is, and I am also puzzled that a 9 year old wants to be involved heavily in these situations and doesnt just want to eat and then do their own thing. Is she part of a larger social group? I would maybe try to only make plans with her in group settings (3 or more) where it would be harder for her to do this to everyone.
A phone call might be in order to clear the air, but she sounds like she wants to be offended and isnt willing to see it from your perspective and isnt valuing the friendship. There might be something else at play (children having a hard time and she is stressed) but really, she should have just said that upfront. Im sorry.
posted by zara at 5:28 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
YES, hanging with kid is totally different and way less relaxed than hanging sans kid.
That is why parents brag about having a child free evening.
I just realised that possibly she also finds it stressful to be the the solo kid entertainer and a little refreshing/relaxing to also have another adult in the room to share the attention. "And it's great, OP also loves the Kid! Win-win!" Then you pop her bubble and, well.
This can be true even if, especially if, she adores the kid and allows him to be the center of attention.
You know her best, it's just a possibility.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:42 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
That is why parents brag about having a child free evening.
I just realised that possibly she also finds it stressful to be the the solo kid entertainer and a little refreshing/relaxing to also have another adult in the room to share the attention. "And it's great, OP also loves the Kid! Win-win!" Then you pop her bubble and, well.
This can be true even if, especially if, she adores the kid and allows him to be the center of attention.
You know her best, it's just a possibility.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:42 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you do decide to spend some time with your friend and the grandkid, here's a little hack for dealing with children (uh, or adults) who, it seems, just have to be the center of attention.
Give them attention.
If you do you best to ignore them, they will keep pinging you for attention, forever.
Instead, when they make their first bid for attention, give them your full focus. Listen to what they say, pay attention, ask questions. Be yourself, whether you're usually serious or silly, whether you like to listen or like to talk. Just fill up their cup of connection. In my experience, since kids have short attention spans, they will wander off in ten minutes or so.
If they do come back and want attention from you, repeat the above.
But once they have learned that when they ask for attention, you will give it, they will tend to reduce the constant pinging.
If/when you know their interests, them a little (non-food) treat, possibly a small toy or coloring/activity book. You can pick something that they can go off and play with quietly and alone, not something they need your help with. Or, if you think it would be nice to spend that filling-up-their-cup-time working together on a shared activity, you can go that way, too. (I have taught so many kids how to knit. So many. Two knitting needles + a skein of yarn is less than 10 bucks.)
In the end, yeah, maybe you spend more focused-on-kid time when you would rather have focused-on-your-friend time, but, also, you will make your friend happy, and, like, you get a new little friend. Kids are interesting people when you get to know them.
posted by BrashTech at 9:47 AM on August 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
Give them attention.
If you do you best to ignore them, they will keep pinging you for attention, forever.
Instead, when they make their first bid for attention, give them your full focus. Listen to what they say, pay attention, ask questions. Be yourself, whether you're usually serious or silly, whether you like to listen or like to talk. Just fill up their cup of connection. In my experience, since kids have short attention spans, they will wander off in ten minutes or so.
If they do come back and want attention from you, repeat the above.
But once they have learned that when they ask for attention, you will give it, they will tend to reduce the constant pinging.
If/when you know their interests, them a little (non-food) treat, possibly a small toy or coloring/activity book. You can pick something that they can go off and play with quietly and alone, not something they need your help with. Or, if you think it would be nice to spend that filling-up-their-cup-time working together on a shared activity, you can go that way, too. (I have taught so many kids how to knit. So many. Two knitting needles + a skein of yarn is less than 10 bucks.)
In the end, yeah, maybe you spend more focused-on-kid time when you would rather have focused-on-your-friend time, but, also, you will make your friend happy, and, like, you get a new little friend. Kids are interesting people when you get to know them.
posted by BrashTech at 9:47 AM on August 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
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It seems more like you feel like your priority has fallen below whatever else it is she does, and that wouldn't feel good if it were me. If it is "have dinner at my house with a child you aren't related to and don't enjoy the company of or nothing" eventually...I would be choosing nothing.
posted by 41swans at 1:14 PM on August 22, 2023 [9 favorites]