'The Bear' and professions that demand excellence and perfection
August 6, 2023 12:36 PM Subscribe
I just watched the episode of "The Bear" where Richie stages (interns, essentially) for a week at a three-star Michelin restaurant. I was riveted by the portrayal of the fanatical devotion to excellence and perfection needed to run such an establishment, particularly the scene centered around the expeditor. I'm curious to know what other sorts of jobs/careers/industries demand similar qualities at that level.
While obviously the show is a work of fiction, experienced chefs (including the hospitality director of the restaurant where the episode was shot) have said that the portrayal of this aspect of the episode—which I might call the "every day is the freaking Super Bowl"/"drink the Kool-Aid" aspect—is accurate.
While obviously the show is a work of fiction, experienced chefs (including the hospitality director of the restaurant where the episode was shot) have said that the portrayal of this aspect of the episode—which I might call the "every day is the freaking Super Bowl"/"drink the Kool-Aid" aspect—is accurate.
Really any service consumed by the super wealthy. So, high-end event/wedding planners, high-end PR agencies, art dealers/consultants, high-end real estate agents, etc. When people are shelling out a lot of money, that have equally high expectations, generally.
posted by coffeecat at 1:42 PM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 1:42 PM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
By the way, if you liked that aspect of The Bear, you'd probably find the movie The Menu...interesting.
posted by praemunire at 2:06 PM on August 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 2:06 PM on August 6, 2023 [11 favorites]
Superyacht crew, also. The to-do list I shared with the eight other crew members included tweezing fried chicken crumbs off the teak flooring, acting as a human clothes rack on seven-figure shopping sprees, and ferrying to the middle of nowhere to pick up caviar.
posted by credulous at 2:06 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by credulous at 2:06 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Surgeons
posted by crocomancer at 2:07 PM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by crocomancer at 2:07 PM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Very-high-end handbags are stitched by hand. They've got to be perfect but juuust imperfect enough that the person shelling out for a Birkin actually believes they're made by a live craftsperson and not a machine.
posted by potrzebie at 2:08 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by potrzebie at 2:08 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Was going to post surgeons...
Having had may too many interactions with them in the past year. I was talking to my main surgeon about diagnosis and such, and he said, "well surgeons aren't always the best doctors".
Because they do what they do, and they'd better be damned good at it, but then tend to focus a bit much on what they do. Not what might be the underlying cause.
posted by Windopaene at 2:27 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Having had may too many interactions with them in the past year. I was talking to my main surgeon about diagnosis and such, and he said, "well surgeons aren't always the best doctors".
Because they do what they do, and they'd better be damned good at it, but then tend to focus a bit much on what they do. Not what might be the underlying cause.
posted by Windopaene at 2:27 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Biglaw attorney
Funny you should say this. I used to be one, myself, and it was a pure shitshow. I was gobsmacked at how disorganized everything always was, and at the utter lack of commitment to excellence I saw around me. I'm sure every firm is different, but this was a major, supposedly prestigious firm. I'd have been pissed if I were a client and actually knew how my cases were being handled.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Funny you should say this. I used to be one, myself, and it was a pure shitshow. I was gobsmacked at how disorganized everything always was, and at the utter lack of commitment to excellence I saw around me. I'm sure every firm is different, but this was a major, supposedly prestigious firm. I'd have been pissed if I were a client and actually knew how my cases were being handled.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Most of on-the-ground academia is like this. At least the good parts are.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:24 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 3:24 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
this was a major, supposedly prestigious firm
I don't know if it was always like this, but having worked at two and sat across the table from a wide range, I think there's a big dropoff in quality between the top seven or eight and...everybody else. It's partially based on how much they can bill their clients, because achieving that level of organization and precision is hugely time-consuming. Honestly astonished at some of the shoddiness I've seen from the Everybody Else in the past few years, things I would've been flayed alive for at my first firm.
posted by praemunire at 3:24 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't know if it was always like this, but having worked at two and sat across the table from a wide range, I think there's a big dropoff in quality between the top seven or eight and...everybody else. It's partially based on how much they can bill their clients, because achieving that level of organization and precision is hugely time-consuming. Honestly astonished at some of the shoddiness I've seen from the Everybody Else in the past few years, things I would've been flayed alive for at my first firm.
posted by praemunire at 3:24 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cinematographers and editors for big-budget feature films.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:45 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 3:45 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Saturation divers. There are only three or four hundred of them in the USA. It involves a lot of expensive equipment and a lot of training, so the companies doing it are disincentivized from doing it cheap and lethal. Even with state of the art equipment and lots of experience, trivial mistakes can lead to death in a hundred different ways.
And astronauts, for similar reasons.
posted by cubeb at 3:49 PM on August 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
And astronauts, for similar reasons.
posted by cubeb at 3:49 PM on August 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
Classical music performance at the highest levels.
posted by minervous at 4:07 PM on August 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by minervous at 4:07 PM on August 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Maybe a somewhat similar kind of obsession with the accoutrements of ballet: the shoes, the breaking in of the shoes and so on.
posted by BibiRose at 4:18 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 4:18 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Am high end attorney and can confirm that I absolutely care about whether a period is italicized.
I also cannot watch shows like The Bear because it's too stressful and I need to unwind!
posted by dazedandconfused at 4:53 PM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I also cannot watch shows like The Bear because it's too stressful and I need to unwind!
posted by dazedandconfused at 4:53 PM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Reading over some of these answers....
I'd say there are two factors that can contribute to this:
1. Lots of money involved (makes things high stakes).
2. A 'passion career' where the sky is the limit to how much an individual might accomplish, and many people within it are internally motivated to prove themselves as one of the greats.
Just having one of these factors will enable perfectionism, but make it somewhat less in degree. Lots of people in careers just for the money will cut corners where they can - sure, some people really are trying to be a famous lawyer, but plenty are happy to settle for a being known as a reliable/respectable lawyer. On the other side, people in passion careers that are poorly paid often burnout - certainly, I've seen this a lot in academia - it's even a trope that academics become depressed once they get tenure because for many its anti-climatic.
Anyway, being a high-end chef manages to combine both - lots of money on the line and it's a passion career - so the perfect condition for perfectionism.
posted by coffeecat at 5:18 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'd say there are two factors that can contribute to this:
1. Lots of money involved (makes things high stakes).
2. A 'passion career' where the sky is the limit to how much an individual might accomplish, and many people within it are internally motivated to prove themselves as one of the greats.
Just having one of these factors will enable perfectionism, but make it somewhat less in degree. Lots of people in careers just for the money will cut corners where they can - sure, some people really are trying to be a famous lawyer, but plenty are happy to settle for a being known as a reliable/respectable lawyer. On the other side, people in passion careers that are poorly paid often burnout - certainly, I've seen this a lot in academia - it's even a trope that academics become depressed once they get tenure because for many its anti-climatic.
Anyway, being a high-end chef manages to combine both - lots of money on the line and it's a passion career - so the perfect condition for perfectionism.
posted by coffeecat at 5:18 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Some stage productions like Cirque de Solei require precision work from multiple people or performers die.
posted by Candleman at 5:31 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Candleman at 5:31 PM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anything involving spaceflight.
posted by credulous at 5:35 PM on August 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by credulous at 5:35 PM on August 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
A friend of mine was an expediter at Newport news Shipbuilding and Drydock. He was assigned to huge naval and commercial ship projects, and his job was to bring parts in on schedule and on spec. I imagine him negotiating with old-school machine shops and metal casting establishments, with Dickensian proprietors, who are the last living practictioners of their craft. Trying to arrange an 18-wheeler tractor trailer for a propeller rod the size of a blue whale. Finding a crack in a mission critical tooled piece.
Lots of institutional knowledge, Ability to turn on a dime. Prioritize. Wheedle and cajole. Work minor miracles on a daily basis.
posted by ohshenandoah at 5:37 PM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Lots of institutional knowledge, Ability to turn on a dime. Prioritize. Wheedle and cajole. Work minor miracles on a daily basis.
posted by ohshenandoah at 5:37 PM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm curious about how many of the examples here involve most of the staff getting paid as little as cooks do. Even at a 3-michelin-star place you're working either for free (stageing can sometimes last for months at the most famous restaurants) or for a few dollars above minimum wage, because you're supposed to do it "for the dedication to the craft".
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:45 PM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:45 PM on August 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Art conservators. The attention to detail and the concern for the very, very long term consequences of what they do is amazing to watch.
posted by spindle at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by spindle at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
Any job that includes live performance is like this. If you’re in a job where if you make a mistake, everyone will see it right when it happens, you really need to be “up” and “on” every moment of every day. I work in television control rooms. You can be good without going to these extremes, but to be great, you need to go all in. On a live show. If you mess up, there’s no redos, no edits, and often times a lot of money on the line for the producers. I have always assumed that professional athletes experience similar things.
posted by soy_renfield at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by soy_renfield at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I feel like there is a big differnece here between professions which "purport" and perhaps "advertise" having these standards vs. jobs that actually do (and may not advertise this at all). Could the OP clarify which they are more interested in? There's a lot of bullshit out there.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 7:45 PM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by soylent00FF00 at 7:45 PM on August 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
Professional magicians.
posted by Tsuga at 11:30 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Tsuga at 11:30 PM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cycling, particularly for everyone involed in a grand tour team; or for the athletes in world-class track cycling. Formula 1 is often described as operating like this although I don't know whether it does.
I think it's the 'everyday perfectionism' behind the scenes that's comparatively rare. I would say that while classical orchestras are often incredibly disciplined and individuals are perfectionist players, because you see every moment of the actual performance it has a very different feel to what I've seen of Michelin-starred restaurants.
posted by plonkee at 4:28 AM on August 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think it's the 'everyday perfectionism' behind the scenes that's comparatively rare. I would say that while classical orchestras are often incredibly disciplined and individuals are perfectionist players, because you see every moment of the actual performance it has a very different feel to what I've seen of Michelin-starred restaurants.
posted by plonkee at 4:28 AM on August 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I work for a Fortune 50 company in a role that causes me to interact with the c-suite executive admin staff. All of them are extraordinarily detailed oriented and deeply care about ever facet of every piece of information that crosses the path of their principal.
posted by mmascolino at 5:55 AM on August 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by mmascolino at 5:55 AM on August 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Similar to live TV, the job in which I worked adjacent to people doing live radio (for a major UK radio network) gave me the same impression. The people doing the organising and live running of everything were formidably impressive. Sure, a DJ might occasionally slip up on air, but you would expect zero technical or organisational mistakes. Nothing left to chance.
posted by fabius at 6:03 AM on August 7, 2023
posted by fabius at 6:03 AM on August 7, 2023
Stage Managers, and in general, technical crew for professional (and non-professional) theater productions. They speak to many of the same "live, no mistakes" noted above, as well as the "if you screw up, people get hurt" role. Extremely detail oriented, having to deal with insane levels of demand from directors, actors, and others in the space. Tons of technical knowledge and domain-specific needs.
posted by griffey at 6:27 AM on August 7, 2023
posted by griffey at 6:27 AM on August 7, 2023
Trying to arrange an 18-wheeler tractor trailer for a propeller rod the size of a blue whale.
Oh wow, you just reminded me of that clip from last year of a truck carrying a single wind turbine propeller blade that spectacularly failed to get off a railroad crossing in time. So many people’s time and effort and expertise wasted in a moment because a driver couldn’t figure out how to get off a trestle in time.
Posting link here because embedding the link is failing for me on mobile:
https://youtu.be/W75cvVMFzRo
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:00 AM on August 7, 2023
Oh wow, you just reminded me of that clip from last year of a truck carrying a single wind turbine propeller blade that spectacularly failed to get off a railroad crossing in time. So many people’s time and effort and expertise wasted in a moment because a driver couldn’t figure out how to get off a trestle in time.
Posting link here because embedding the link is failing for me on mobile:
https://youtu.be/W75cvVMFzRo
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:00 AM on August 7, 2023
I feel like there is a big difference here between professions which "purport" and perhaps "advertise" having these standards vs. jobs that actually do (and may not advertise this at all). Could the OP clarify which they are more interested in? There's a lot of bullshit out there.
This. Half the professions listed are definitely not like that at all. Also, just because people can die doesn't mean it's done by 'detail oriented professionals'. Those jobs are often done by poorly paid people. And 'no mistakes' has to be compared to laymen vs field professionals.
Athletes and musicians mess up all the time - often roll in and out of interest of their jobs, but that doesn't mean a layman can tell the difference.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:22 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
This. Half the professions listed are definitely not like that at all. Also, just because people can die doesn't mean it's done by 'detail oriented professionals'. Those jobs are often done by poorly paid people. And 'no mistakes' has to be compared to laymen vs field professionals.
Athletes and musicians mess up all the time - often roll in and out of interest of their jobs, but that doesn't mean a layman can tell the difference.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:22 AM on August 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Trying to arrange an 18-wheeler tractor trailer for a propeller rod the size of a blue whale.
These things make up a solid 5% of truck traffic on I40 around Amarillo TX. I'm sure it's kind of detail oriented, but mostly just involves straight roads and a bunch of straps.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:23 AM on August 7, 2023
These things make up a solid 5% of truck traffic on I40 around Amarillo TX. I'm sure it's kind of detail oriented, but mostly just involves straight roads and a bunch of straps.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:23 AM on August 7, 2023
Live TV direction, for sure. Watch Emmy award winner Glen Weiss at work during the 2013 Tony Awards.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:37 AM on August 7, 2023
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:37 AM on August 7, 2023
Live TV direction, for sure. Watch Emmy award winner Glen Weiss at work yt during the 2013 Tony Awards.
That guy watched way too many Joel Schumacher movies and music videos. Just because you can cut every 3 seconds doesn't mean you should. Any NFL live broadcast director would have done a better job. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:52 AM on August 7, 2023
That guy watched way too many Joel Schumacher movies and music videos. Just because you can cut every 3 seconds doesn't mean you should. Any NFL live broadcast director would have done a better job. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:52 AM on August 7, 2023
Half the professions listed are definitely not like that at all.
I suspect the real figure is some percentage of teams in each profession work at this level and a larger percentage do not. Definitely some percentage fine dining is also a complete shitshow, and factors other than quality of service affect whether that establishment attains or retains its high-status perceptions.
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:21 AM on August 7, 2023
I suspect the real figure is some percentage of teams in each profession work at this level and a larger percentage do not. Definitely some percentage fine dining is also a complete shitshow, and factors other than quality of service affect whether that establishment attains or retains its high-status perceptions.
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:21 AM on August 7, 2023
Definitely some percentage fine dining is also a complete shitshow
I've been at "kitchen counters" where everyone is so prepared and it it so so well staffed that there is zero drama and it almost looks like people are moving in slow motion....and I have observed kitchens where the owner is loudly and aggressively dressing down the line staff for messing up.
posted by mmascolino at 9:46 AM on August 7, 2023
I've been at "kitchen counters" where everyone is so prepared and it it so so well staffed that there is zero drama and it almost looks like people are moving in slow motion....and I have observed kitchens where the owner is loudly and aggressively dressing down the line staff for messing up.
posted by mmascolino at 9:46 AM on August 7, 2023
Response by poster: Could the OP clarify which they are more interested in? There's a lot of bullshit out there.
I mean, the episode was so fascinating precisely because it portrayed an environment where these standards are in fact lived up to. My question asked about other jobs that demand similar qualities, not just purported to.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:50 AM on August 7, 2023
I mean, the episode was so fascinating precisely because it portrayed an environment where these standards are in fact lived up to. My question asked about other jobs that demand similar qualities, not just purported to.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:50 AM on August 7, 2023
the episode was so fascinating precisely because it portrayed an environment where these standards are in fact lived up to.
They are... until they're not. There's a dark underside to this superbowl-level of perfection. The scene about the smudge kind of gives that away.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:33 AM on August 8, 2023
They are... until they're not. There's a dark underside to this superbowl-level of perfection. The scene about the smudge kind of gives that away.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:33 AM on August 8, 2023
I notice a lot of theatre/live performance come up in the replies. As someone who's worked both on stage and backstage (including, interestingly, stage magic and circus): it's not really AS do-or-die precise as people are making it sound like.
Super high level stuff like Cirque du Soleil? Perhaps, sure. (The Rockettes come to mind). But one of the biggest skills for a performer is to roll with the punches. If you mess up, instead of freaking out and breaking character, just roll with it and improv as though you meant it all along.
My stage magic show is largely an autobiographical story about impostor syndrome and fear of failure, stemming from a botched childhood magic show and the anxiety of putting on my first full magic show as an adult since that childhood incident. On one night of the performance, things did actually legitimately go wrong (misplaced props mainly). However, the audience didn't think things were amiss. They kinda figured the mistakes were part of the show's main thesis!
There's an adage amongst professional stage magicians of "stage magicians are actors that play the part of stage magicians". This is an adaptation of some writing from Jean Eugene Robert-Houdin, the Father of Modern Magic, and his larger point was that stage magic is more than just technical skill: it's primarily about performance and building a relationship with the audience. Robert-Houdin was big on precision, but personally I've gotten way more enjoyment out of watching magic shows (or any other show really) where I might have spotted a wire or something but where the performance was STUNNING and moved me to tears, compared to other shows that were technically perfect but boring as all hell.
As for stage management: the job is essentially herding cats plus firefighting. There is a lot of chaos that needs to be managed, and sometimes precision just isn't possible because you're working with a lot of different people and circumstances. Just like in performing, the bigger job here is to adapt and adjust to circumstances as needed. Prop missing? Improvise with something that can be used in its place. Performer suddenly unavailable? talk to the rest of the crew about what to do in the meantime (most of my work is variety, so this could look like rearranging the lineup or having the MCs add more to their spiel). You want to make it look like everything is as it should be - the audience isn't going to know any different.
posted by creatrixtiara at 3:36 AM on August 13, 2023
Super high level stuff like Cirque du Soleil? Perhaps, sure. (The Rockettes come to mind). But one of the biggest skills for a performer is to roll with the punches. If you mess up, instead of freaking out and breaking character, just roll with it and improv as though you meant it all along.
My stage magic show is largely an autobiographical story about impostor syndrome and fear of failure, stemming from a botched childhood magic show and the anxiety of putting on my first full magic show as an adult since that childhood incident. On one night of the performance, things did actually legitimately go wrong (misplaced props mainly). However, the audience didn't think things were amiss. They kinda figured the mistakes were part of the show's main thesis!
There's an adage amongst professional stage magicians of "stage magicians are actors that play the part of stage magicians". This is an adaptation of some writing from Jean Eugene Robert-Houdin, the Father of Modern Magic, and his larger point was that stage magic is more than just technical skill: it's primarily about performance and building a relationship with the audience. Robert-Houdin was big on precision, but personally I've gotten way more enjoyment out of watching magic shows (or any other show really) where I might have spotted a wire or something but where the performance was STUNNING and moved me to tears, compared to other shows that were technically perfect but boring as all hell.
As for stage management: the job is essentially herding cats plus firefighting. There is a lot of chaos that needs to be managed, and sometimes precision just isn't possible because you're working with a lot of different people and circumstances. Just like in performing, the bigger job here is to adapt and adjust to circumstances as needed. Prop missing? Improvise with something that can be used in its place. Performer suddenly unavailable? talk to the rest of the crew about what to do in the meantime (most of my work is variety, so this could look like rearranging the lineup or having the MCs add more to their spiel). You want to make it look like everything is as it should be - the audience isn't going to know any different.
posted by creatrixtiara at 3:36 AM on August 13, 2023
As for an actual answer: butlering.
posted by creatrixtiara at 3:36 AM on August 13, 2023
posted by creatrixtiara at 3:36 AM on August 13, 2023
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posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:00 PM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]