How to trust my gut in a romantic relationship, with trauma background
July 12, 2023 6:45 AM Subscribe
My longterm relationship with my partner is triggering trauma responses. I can't tell if these are red flags for abuse, my fight/flight response going haywire, just us being incompatible etc, and whether I should leave the relationship. I'm having trouble thinking clearly given my wildly varying emotional response to the situation at different times. Additional complications due to possible undiagnosed neurodivergence.
I've recently realised that a family member I grew up with was emotionally abusive, and that the mental health issues I've struggled with (anxiety, depression, disassociation) are trauma responses. This is something I've been working on with a therapist for several years, but it feels like it's only reached the 'things sinking in' and accepting that the situation was actually traumatic stage in the last few months. I feel particularly raw, and I'm particularly aware of when I'm being triggered and how stressful that response is. I feel somewhere between hope of things finally getting better and exhaustion of my ability to cope with anything stressful ever again.
I've noticed that some things my partner does trigger a strong trauma response in me. These include behaviours like anger -- shouting and throwing things; and lack of reliability -- saying he would take care of a problem and then putting it off indefinitely, leaving me to scramble to do it. The trauma response itself is a feeling of fear and freezing up that feels almost unbearable, like I'm a trapped animal. The only thing I care about is getting away from the situation and the most comforting thought at that time is imagining living on my own, never being in a relationship again, and having complete control over my environment. I can't feel any empathy for my partner and feel disconnected from my memories of other times with him, seeing him only as a threat. I feel like a completely different person.
The way I think about the relationship also completely changes in those times. I feel like I'm being given a brief period of clarity to see that I'm in an abusive relationship and have to get out.
Other times I've noticed getting triggered include in response to things completely outside his control like him sleeping badly and disrupting our plans by sleeping most of the next day, I guess triggering the same fear of never being able to count on him. Because this brings up basically identical extreme feelings, including an irrational feeling of anger, it leads me to doubt everything my gut was telling me about the previous situations. Clearly my gut is misfiring at least some of the time.
When I'm not triggered, the way I think about the relationship feels very different. I notice the good things in the relationship -- times when he comforts me, enjoyable conversations, sharing the same sense of humour etc. I am certain he isn't acting maliciously and we've had several conversations about these issues where I can tell we're both acting in good faith and trying to understand each other. While he doesn't have any diagnosis, the circumstances around when he loses his temper make me think of autistic meltdown, and the procrastination seems like ADD. He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before and I am scared I'll inadvertently cause him to feel additional shame about them. I appreciate how much effort he puts into controlling his temper and how much less frequently he loses his temper in recent years. We've come up with some strategies for me to feel more supported dealing with the day to day tasks that come up, and me being able to ask for help in a way that doesn't trigger shame in him around procrastination. After each difficult conversation I feel a great sense of connection to him, like we're working together on something worthwhile.
Being reminded that I can survive not having perfect control of my environment and that I can't control other people also feels useful to me in a therapeutic sense, as is being reminded that things don't have to go perfectly in a relationship in order to be able to love each other, forgive each other, etc. It feels like it disrupts some of the control issues, black and white thinking and perfectionism that my anxious mind tends toward. The 'gut feeling' about being in an abusive relationship feels like an overreaction when I'm not triggered, and when I think about leaving the relationship I feel an immense sense of loss.
And yet, that triggered part of me is hurting so badly, and is so exhausted, and just wants to feel safe and not have to deal with difficult things. It wants me to leave the relationship.
A lot of the advice I've heard around abusive relationships and whether you should leave a relationship in general is not resonating well with me for this situation. Things like 'trust your gut', 'if you think you're in an abusive relationship then you are', and 'abusive relationships always escalate and get worse'. I feel like two parts of me feel completely different things about this relationship. What feelings should I trust? How should I decide whether to stay or go? Does it matter if the relationship is 'abusive' if we're just too incompatible to live together without stress? Will my partner's behaviour or my ability to cope with it improve? Is there anyone out there who stayed in a difficult relationship and didn't regret it?
Any more nuanced way to think about difficult relationships and whether or not to leave one would be very appreciated. In case it helps, the therapeutic model for dealing with trauma that has resonated the most with me is Internal Family Systems, so any advice within this framework would also be helpful. And I know you will be but please be gentle.. I'm tired and hurting.
I've recently realised that a family member I grew up with was emotionally abusive, and that the mental health issues I've struggled with (anxiety, depression, disassociation) are trauma responses. This is something I've been working on with a therapist for several years, but it feels like it's only reached the 'things sinking in' and accepting that the situation was actually traumatic stage in the last few months. I feel particularly raw, and I'm particularly aware of when I'm being triggered and how stressful that response is. I feel somewhere between hope of things finally getting better and exhaustion of my ability to cope with anything stressful ever again.
I've noticed that some things my partner does trigger a strong trauma response in me. These include behaviours like anger -- shouting and throwing things; and lack of reliability -- saying he would take care of a problem and then putting it off indefinitely, leaving me to scramble to do it. The trauma response itself is a feeling of fear and freezing up that feels almost unbearable, like I'm a trapped animal. The only thing I care about is getting away from the situation and the most comforting thought at that time is imagining living on my own, never being in a relationship again, and having complete control over my environment. I can't feel any empathy for my partner and feel disconnected from my memories of other times with him, seeing him only as a threat. I feel like a completely different person.
The way I think about the relationship also completely changes in those times. I feel like I'm being given a brief period of clarity to see that I'm in an abusive relationship and have to get out.
Other times I've noticed getting triggered include in response to things completely outside his control like him sleeping badly and disrupting our plans by sleeping most of the next day, I guess triggering the same fear of never being able to count on him. Because this brings up basically identical extreme feelings, including an irrational feeling of anger, it leads me to doubt everything my gut was telling me about the previous situations. Clearly my gut is misfiring at least some of the time.
When I'm not triggered, the way I think about the relationship feels very different. I notice the good things in the relationship -- times when he comforts me, enjoyable conversations, sharing the same sense of humour etc. I am certain he isn't acting maliciously and we've had several conversations about these issues where I can tell we're both acting in good faith and trying to understand each other. While he doesn't have any diagnosis, the circumstances around when he loses his temper make me think of autistic meltdown, and the procrastination seems like ADD. He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before and I am scared I'll inadvertently cause him to feel additional shame about them. I appreciate how much effort he puts into controlling his temper and how much less frequently he loses his temper in recent years. We've come up with some strategies for me to feel more supported dealing with the day to day tasks that come up, and me being able to ask for help in a way that doesn't trigger shame in him around procrastination. After each difficult conversation I feel a great sense of connection to him, like we're working together on something worthwhile.
Being reminded that I can survive not having perfect control of my environment and that I can't control other people also feels useful to me in a therapeutic sense, as is being reminded that things don't have to go perfectly in a relationship in order to be able to love each other, forgive each other, etc. It feels like it disrupts some of the control issues, black and white thinking and perfectionism that my anxious mind tends toward. The 'gut feeling' about being in an abusive relationship feels like an overreaction when I'm not triggered, and when I think about leaving the relationship I feel an immense sense of loss.
And yet, that triggered part of me is hurting so badly, and is so exhausted, and just wants to feel safe and not have to deal with difficult things. It wants me to leave the relationship.
A lot of the advice I've heard around abusive relationships and whether you should leave a relationship in general is not resonating well with me for this situation. Things like 'trust your gut', 'if you think you're in an abusive relationship then you are', and 'abusive relationships always escalate and get worse'. I feel like two parts of me feel completely different things about this relationship. What feelings should I trust? How should I decide whether to stay or go? Does it matter if the relationship is 'abusive' if we're just too incompatible to live together without stress? Will my partner's behaviour or my ability to cope with it improve? Is there anyone out there who stayed in a difficult relationship and didn't regret it?
Any more nuanced way to think about difficult relationships and whether or not to leave one would be very appreciated. In case it helps, the therapeutic model for dealing with trauma that has resonated the most with me is Internal Family Systems, so any advice within this framework would also be helpful. And I know you will be but please be gentle.. I'm tired and hurting.
I have not been in an abusive relationship and these are HUGE RED FLAGS to me:
These include behaviours like anger -- shouting and throwing things; and lack of reliability -- saying he would take care of a problem and then putting it off indefinitely, leaving me to scramble to do it.
These are deal breakers for me. Period. They will not improve because your partner has no incentive to change and is probably taking advantage of your previous history to gaslight you into thinking that you should take the bad with the good.
You deserve so much better.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 7:07 AM on July 12, 2023 [26 favorites]
These include behaviours like anger -- shouting and throwing things; and lack of reliability -- saying he would take care of a problem and then putting it off indefinitely, leaving me to scramble to do it.
These are deal breakers for me. Period. They will not improve because your partner has no incentive to change and is probably taking advantage of your previous history to gaslight you into thinking that you should take the bad with the good.
You deserve so much better.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 7:07 AM on July 12, 2023 [26 favorites]
A relationship doesn't have to be abusive for you to leave. All that's required is that you decide you don't want to be in that relationship anymore. Even if they're a good person, even if they treat you perfectly. If you're not happy, you are allowed to leave.
Unfortunately, it's hard for trauma survivors to 'trust their gut' because our nervous systems are wired to accept abusive and find it normal, or even (yikes) comforting to be in that familiar dynamic. So you have to go by other criteria and metrics. Anger management problems are one of my personal boundaries. They are too triggering for me, regardless of how much they are worked on and improved. I can't be in a relationship with someone who might default to that behavior under stress.
The behavior you are describing sounds incredibly unpleasant and crazy-making, if not downright abusive. (Throwing things and yelling? That's definitely abusive in my book). This person sounds like they need therapy and you need to not stick around while they sort out how to behave like a reasonable adult.
Every time I've been in a relationship like this, my only regret has been that I didn't leave sooner. If you've been doing IFS, spend some time sitting with those parts who are afraid of being alone and give them some support and love.
posted by ananci at 7:08 AM on July 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
Unfortunately, it's hard for trauma survivors to 'trust their gut' because our nervous systems are wired to accept abusive and find it normal, or even (yikes) comforting to be in that familiar dynamic. So you have to go by other criteria and metrics. Anger management problems are one of my personal boundaries. They are too triggering for me, regardless of how much they are worked on and improved. I can't be in a relationship with someone who might default to that behavior under stress.
The behavior you are describing sounds incredibly unpleasant and crazy-making, if not downright abusive. (Throwing things and yelling? That's definitely abusive in my book). This person sounds like they need therapy and you need to not stick around while they sort out how to behave like a reasonable adult.
Every time I've been in a relationship like this, my only regret has been that I didn't leave sooner. If you've been doing IFS, spend some time sitting with those parts who are afraid of being alone and give them some support and love.
posted by ananci at 7:08 AM on July 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
One of my favorite guides for navigating relationships is this - when they show you who they are, believe them. Basically, it means not to trust their words; instead, look at their actions because that is the real person. Another guide I use for navigating relationships (and life) is that emotions are not truth. So, just because you feel something does not make it true. This mostly comes into play when I am having PMS and want to kill EVERYONE.
So that is the perspective I have when reading your post. And, gently, I would say his actions look like, if not abuse, then like someone who does not make a good partner. It is okay to yell at the TV because his sports team is losing. It is not okay to yell at you. And it is NEVER okay to throw things. EVER! He has shown himself to be someone whose word cannot be trusted. He has shown himself to be someone who is unreliable. He has shown himself to be someone who is most focused on his own desires and ignores yours.
I would also suggest that the majority of your post is about how you feel in this relationship. Instead, maybe make a list of pros and cons about the relationship. And only list actions, not your feelings about those actions. Then take a good hard look at that list when deciding how to move forward.
posted by eleslie at 7:10 AM on July 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
So that is the perspective I have when reading your post. And, gently, I would say his actions look like, if not abuse, then like someone who does not make a good partner. It is okay to yell at the TV because his sports team is losing. It is not okay to yell at you. And it is NEVER okay to throw things. EVER! He has shown himself to be someone whose word cannot be trusted. He has shown himself to be someone who is unreliable. He has shown himself to be someone who is most focused on his own desires and ignores yours.
I would also suggest that the majority of your post is about how you feel in this relationship. Instead, maybe make a list of pros and cons about the relationship. And only list actions, not your feelings about those actions. Then take a good hard look at that list when deciding how to move forward.
posted by eleslie at 7:10 AM on July 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I read "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" and "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" after seeing them recommended here many times. I found them both very useful for an external perspective and clear guidelines to identify red (and a few green) flags. No "gut feelings" needed. I think you would really benefit from reading them too. Don't tell your partner that you're reading them.
I also don't believe that your reactions to his actions as described here are irrational at all and I wonder what's making you think they are. It's normal to feel afraid and freeze when someone is throwing things and shouting at you. It's completely rational too - physical abusers very commonly start with throwing and hitting objects near their partner before they escalate to actual hitting. Throwing things is intimidating and abusive even when the objects don't hit you. It's also normal to feel angry and disappointed if your partner disrupts your plans at the last minute, even if it's because they're tired. It's also normal for people in abusive relationships to feel all the feelings you're describing and want to leave while the abuse is happening, and then go back to feeling good about the relationship when their partner is being nice to them again (which even abusive partners are - if there were no good times, it wouldn't be so difficult to leave). I know this from experience unfortunately and if you want to chat more about it, please feel free to memail me.
If you haven't already discussed your relationship issues with your therapist, I would strongly suggest doing so, even if it's not the main goal of your therapy.
posted by randomnity at 7:13 AM on July 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I also don't believe that your reactions to his actions as described here are irrational at all and I wonder what's making you think they are. It's normal to feel afraid and freeze when someone is throwing things and shouting at you. It's completely rational too - physical abusers very commonly start with throwing and hitting objects near their partner before they escalate to actual hitting. Throwing things is intimidating and abusive even when the objects don't hit you. It's also normal to feel angry and disappointed if your partner disrupts your plans at the last minute, even if it's because they're tired. It's also normal for people in abusive relationships to feel all the feelings you're describing and want to leave while the abuse is happening, and then go back to feeling good about the relationship when their partner is being nice to them again (which even abusive partners are - if there were no good times, it wouldn't be so difficult to leave). I know this from experience unfortunately and if you want to chat more about it, please feel free to memail me.
If you haven't already discussed your relationship issues with your therapist, I would strongly suggest doing so, even if it's not the main goal of your therapy.
posted by randomnity at 7:13 AM on July 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
He doesn't have to be a certified monster for this to not be the right situation for you.
Some people are wired to not be particularly bothered by partners with anger issues, and lots of people are trained to put up with partners with responsibility issues even when they shouldn't*. But no individual is actually required to tolerate these things, and for you it would appear that this kind of person is actively unhealthy for you.
Relationships aren't actually supposed to be this kind of difficult. Yeah, sure, everybody's got quirks and hurts of every flavor and relationships need to have some elasticity for that, but the primary challenges in a relationship should be external ones you're confronting as a team, not opposition inside the relationship.
Is there anyone out there who stayed in a difficult relationship and didn't regret it?
I'm going to tell you something shocking: many people who leave relationships for any reason don't especially regret it once the dust settles. Part of being in an ongoing relationship is both participants making a good-faith effort to make it be good on an ongoing basis, and if that's not happening it's just a zombie relationship that keeps walking because it doesn't know to fall over. So when you ask this question, you're trying to get someone to tell you that your current regrets are better than a perceived future regret that is actually unlikely to happen.
People who don't regret staying in "difficult" relationships are not in the kind of relationship you describe. Their difficulties are significant external forces: devastating health issues, big parenting challenges, really bad economic/political situations, family scandals. For people in your situation, generally the best most people can muster up is "it kept me/my kids from being homeless" or "it got me out of my even worse family".
This isn't the right situation for you, and you are actively trying to override your gut here. It is okay for you to leave and go put on your own oxygen mask, and then eventually find someone who is already wearing their oxygen mask.
*I personally, as an insomniac, have a particularly short trigger for men who sleep all day with no regard for anything that needs to be done or commitments made, and no responsibility to very clearly communicate about it. Because I am crystal clear about my needs, and I carefully balance my responsibilities AND THE NEED FOR REALLY CLEAN SLEEP HYGIENE so things don't get worse. Because I give a shit about both those things. I can tell that you see that it's bullshit but you don't know how to call it bullshit, it's because there's no accountability OR effort to improve the situation.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:32 AM on July 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
Some people are wired to not be particularly bothered by partners with anger issues, and lots of people are trained to put up with partners with responsibility issues even when they shouldn't*. But no individual is actually required to tolerate these things, and for you it would appear that this kind of person is actively unhealthy for you.
Relationships aren't actually supposed to be this kind of difficult. Yeah, sure, everybody's got quirks and hurts of every flavor and relationships need to have some elasticity for that, but the primary challenges in a relationship should be external ones you're confronting as a team, not opposition inside the relationship.
Is there anyone out there who stayed in a difficult relationship and didn't regret it?
I'm going to tell you something shocking: many people who leave relationships for any reason don't especially regret it once the dust settles. Part of being in an ongoing relationship is both participants making a good-faith effort to make it be good on an ongoing basis, and if that's not happening it's just a zombie relationship that keeps walking because it doesn't know to fall over. So when you ask this question, you're trying to get someone to tell you that your current regrets are better than a perceived future regret that is actually unlikely to happen.
People who don't regret staying in "difficult" relationships are not in the kind of relationship you describe. Their difficulties are significant external forces: devastating health issues, big parenting challenges, really bad economic/political situations, family scandals. For people in your situation, generally the best most people can muster up is "it kept me/my kids from being homeless" or "it got me out of my even worse family".
This isn't the right situation for you, and you are actively trying to override your gut here. It is okay for you to leave and go put on your own oxygen mask, and then eventually find someone who is already wearing their oxygen mask.
*I personally, as an insomniac, have a particularly short trigger for men who sleep all day with no regard for anything that needs to be done or commitments made, and no responsibility to very clearly communicate about it. Because I am crystal clear about my needs, and I carefully balance my responsibilities AND THE NEED FOR REALLY CLEAN SLEEP HYGIENE so things don't get worse. Because I give a shit about both those things. I can tell that you see that it's bullshit but you don't know how to call it bullshit, it's because there's no accountability OR effort to improve the situation.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:32 AM on July 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
shouting and throwing things
This is awful, honestly, and you shouldn't have to put up with it. This by itself is reason to leave. A few years ago I decided that I was just absolutely too old and tired to let anyone yell at me (I certainly don't yell at other people!!), and I don't allow it anymore. You can do this too. You deserve better.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 7:36 AM on July 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
This is awful, honestly, and you shouldn't have to put up with it. This by itself is reason to leave. A few years ago I decided that I was just absolutely too old and tired to let anyone yell at me (I certainly don't yell at other people!!), and I don't allow it anymore. You can do this too. You deserve better.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 7:36 AM on July 12, 2023 [14 favorites]
Unfortunately, it's hard for trauma survivors to 'trust their gut' because our nervous systems are wired to accept abusive and find it normal
I'd just like to echo and emphasize this. My "gut" is broken and I needed the help of a therapist and books like the ones I mentioned to recognize how bad things really were in my relationship, even after knowing for years that there were many unhealthy patterns. I got stuck for years in endless lists of pros and cons where the pros were things like shared interests and the cons were things like shouting in my face and calling me horrible names. The cons didn't feel as serious as they should have because I grew up seeing one of my parents verbally tear apart the other, and even knowing that it was wrong and mean, and was very upsetting in the moment, it didn't really feel "wrong" in my gut so it was easy to forget and move on after the storm passed, until the next time - and there's always a next time. That's why external guidance is so important.
posted by randomnity at 7:41 AM on July 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'd just like to echo and emphasize this. My "gut" is broken and I needed the help of a therapist and books like the ones I mentioned to recognize how bad things really were in my relationship, even after knowing for years that there were many unhealthy patterns. I got stuck for years in endless lists of pros and cons where the pros were things like shared interests and the cons were things like shouting in my face and calling me horrible names. The cons didn't feel as serious as they should have because I grew up seeing one of my parents verbally tear apart the other, and even knowing that it was wrong and mean, and was very upsetting in the moment, it didn't really feel "wrong" in my gut so it was easy to forget and move on after the storm passed, until the next time - and there's always a next time. That's why external guidance is so important.
posted by randomnity at 7:41 AM on July 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
These include behaviours like anger -- shouting and throwing things; and lack of reliability -- saying he would take care of a problem and then putting it off indefinitely, leaving me to scramble to do it.
While the latter can be workable (it's possible for one person in a couple to be the planner/manager), shouting and throwing things is something that I'd say is a red flag and not something you should compromise on. Especially the throwing things part.
He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before and I am scared I'll inadvertently cause him to feel additional shame about them.
I'm not sure how someone can be bullied for being a bully (shouting at someone and throwing things is bullying!), and he should feel shame about it. When you break up with him, shame away, provided you feel safe doing so.
posted by coffeecat at 7:42 AM on July 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
While the latter can be workable (it's possible for one person in a couple to be the planner/manager), shouting and throwing things is something that I'd say is a red flag and not something you should compromise on. Especially the throwing things part.
He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before and I am scared I'll inadvertently cause him to feel additional shame about them.
I'm not sure how someone can be bullied for being a bully (shouting at someone and throwing things is bullying!), and he should feel shame about it. When you break up with him, shame away, provided you feel safe doing so.
posted by coffeecat at 7:42 AM on July 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before and I am scared I'll inadvertently cause him to feel additional shame about them.
It is 100% appropriate for him to feel shame about these behaviors he's been choosing to indulge in. Shame is a useful emotion when we listen to it and let it correct our behavior. He should feel it and listen to it and let it correct his behavior.
That said, his shame etc do not have to be your problem. You should not stay in a relationship with an unreliable, self-indulgent, scary baby-man who screams and throws things, even if he is capable of making pleasant conversation occasionally.
I feel like I'm being given a brief period of clarity to see that I'm in an abusive relationship and have to get out.
That's right. You know what to do.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:51 AM on July 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
It is 100% appropriate for him to feel shame about these behaviors he's been choosing to indulge in. Shame is a useful emotion when we listen to it and let it correct our behavior. He should feel it and listen to it and let it correct his behavior.
That said, his shame etc do not have to be your problem. You should not stay in a relationship with an unreliable, self-indulgent, scary baby-man who screams and throws things, even if he is capable of making pleasant conversation occasionally.
I feel like I'm being given a brief period of clarity to see that I'm in an abusive relationship and have to get out.
That's right. You know what to do.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:51 AM on July 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
I would leave anybody who shouted at me and threw things, and I would do so without a backward glance.
posted by flabdablet at 8:13 AM on July 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:13 AM on July 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
Punching walls and/or breaking things likewise.
posted by flabdablet at 8:18 AM on July 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:18 AM on July 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes, his behavior is abusive. I’m so glad you are questioning things and willing to leave if necessary. Yes, those of us who have experienced trauma often distrust our intuition. The good news is that we often still have flashes of insight and eventually can learn to trust our guts with the help of a trusted trauma-informed therapist. I did, which I never thought was possible. However, it also took me leaving a new but rapidly developing abusive relationship: after a few months of patience, once I also felt a flash of clarity, I expressed my doubts to my therapist. She said, “We can heal your past trauma but right now it’s impossible because you are in the middle of new trauma.” It’s so devastating to have something that seemed promising crumble so quickly but that was six years ago: I am happier than ever imagined, still single but dating and I feel 100% confident in my gut! I wish you luck as you choose to proceed. I hope you can leave but, if you’re not ready yet, I understand and we’ll be here and ready to support if and when you are!
posted by smorgasbord at 8:20 AM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 8:20 AM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don’t think it really matters if you call this relationship abusive or not. Triggered you is still you. You don’t like being yelled at and you don’t like it when someone gets angry and throws things. You should break up.
I will say he’s got you fooled. A person’s sleep schedule is not “completely out of his control”. An adult should be able to manage their sleep in a way they are not blowing off plans or commitments or suck it up and follow through in a tired state (I’d be curious to know if he take days off work to catch up on sleep.) That you have concocted a story line of this being different than the other way he disregards you is sad. You use an awful lot of therapy speak to excuse his bad behavior and discount your reality.
He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before ..... I appreciate how much effort he puts into controlling his temper and how much less frequently he loses his temper in recent years. We've come up with some strategies for me to feel more supported dealing with the day to day tasks that come up, and me being able to ask for help in a way that doesn't trigger shame in him around procrastination.
Sorry, but this reads like a report card for a child. The relationship seems joyless. Break up with this guy.
As far as your question about people staying in "difficult" relationships. If you want to, you could accept that he can only kind of control his temper, that he can only kind of be relied upon, and that you will experience distress and resentment. But why would you do that to yourself?
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 8:53 AM on July 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I will say he’s got you fooled. A person’s sleep schedule is not “completely out of his control”. An adult should be able to manage their sleep in a way they are not blowing off plans or commitments or suck it up and follow through in a tired state (I’d be curious to know if he take days off work to catch up on sleep.) That you have concocted a story line of this being different than the other way he disregards you is sad. You use an awful lot of therapy speak to excuse his bad behavior and discount your reality.
He's been bullied for both the temper and procrastination before ..... I appreciate how much effort he puts into controlling his temper and how much less frequently he loses his temper in recent years. We've come up with some strategies for me to feel more supported dealing with the day to day tasks that come up, and me being able to ask for help in a way that doesn't trigger shame in him around procrastination.
Sorry, but this reads like a report card for a child. The relationship seems joyless. Break up with this guy.
As far as your question about people staying in "difficult" relationships. If you want to, you could accept that he can only kind of control his temper, that he can only kind of be relied upon, and that you will experience distress and resentment. But why would you do that to yourself?
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 8:53 AM on July 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I really agree that you should look at his behaviour, not your feelings, to evaluate your deal-breakers.
I'm going to get really personal here and I hope that helps - that's my reason for going into things.
As someone with full-blown DID, as a group we can actually experience different feelings for the same event. So when my husband say, has a bad day and swears at the car, there can be people who find that comforting/familiar, people who find that just normal life and it's not about them, and people who feel like the world is about to end.
So for me, that almost daily lesson in feelings vs. facts (which used to, I have to say, operate quite differently for me, I had not very many facts and operated completely out of my feelings, because it was important to respond to threats as threats immediately) has over time caused me to really look at a) behaviour and b) non-reactive "feelings" but more intuition.
So to unpack your situation:
"shouting and throwing things" - for me, unless this is a twice-a-year occurrence not directed at a person, this is a deal breaker. We could not possibly live a grounded and calm life in a home with someone who did that. Ditto a lot of things like drunkenness. This is simply one of those things we need in order to have a collective good life.
If this is a regular occurrence in your home, I personally think that would be the answer for me.
You could give him a timeline to work this out (given that it sounds like he is working with you, although I note some of your changes are about your approach and not his reaction) that is under one year and see if he can change it. But I personally probably wouldn't, because my past and that pattern would be wholly toxic.
"lack of reliability" - my husband has a paperwork disorder, I swear. However, if he says he will pick up my child or fix a toilet, it will be done. He is generally a good partner and a hard worker. Because his unreliability is reliable, this is something I'm okay with. YMMV. I am pretty ok with picking up pieces, so this works ok.
"sleeping badly and disrupting our plans by sleeping most of the next day, I guess triggering the same fear of never being able to count on him." I've had this reaction and it was usually because I was overwhelmed in my life. I agree with a comment above that generally adults should be able to manage their sleep...but I sometimes also have sleepless nights. I think if this is a rare thing, it's worth working on your feelings on your end - just because someone is sick or needs sleep or fails the odd time doesn't mean you are abandoned. And as an adult you can develop the tools to ride out those times.
But to focus on this:
And yet, that triggered part of me is hurting so badly, and is so exhausted, and just wants to feel safe and not have to deal with difficult things. It wants me to leave the relationship.
I think the need and the exhaustion is real. It's worth taking a bit of time to explore whether that's a momentary feeling or a true understanding, but reading your post it really sounds like that's where you're actually landing.
Regardless of whether the relationship is the fix, or whether you can work with your partner, I think you have to honour that voice.
If you cannot feel safe at home, like not just for the 24 hrs after an argument that happens once every few years, but if you continually cannot feel safe, then something has to change and really - pretty quickly. If you can't turn to your partner and say "I need a safe home," and your partner provide that pretty quickly then it just isn't sustainable. Definitely talk to your therapist about it, but that seems very obvious to me.
For my collective group, that has always been a bottom line for us. No one's relationship can be one that makes other people feel terrible. No one's job can. No one's hobbies (or 'hobbies' like...I dunno researching serial killers) can. Everyone has to treat those around us ethically as well. Everyone has to treat everyone inside ethically too.
This is important not just to be decent human beings in a decent life, but because we/I/our brain exist because we created capacities to handle incredibly unethical, evil behaviour that was being done to us. In therapy, we collectively agreed that we would not use those capacities as a way of letting shit go on.*
If you were living with a young teenager who was exhausted and desperate saying that your partner's behaviour made her feel the way you've described feeling, what solution would you seek for her, knowing that she was not ever able to move out unless you did? What would you expect from your partner? What steps would you take if your partner couldn't address it?
*Obviously we are not perfect in this and commit lots of mistakes.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:43 AM on July 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm going to get really personal here and I hope that helps - that's my reason for going into things.
As someone with full-blown DID, as a group we can actually experience different feelings for the same event. So when my husband say, has a bad day and swears at the car, there can be people who find that comforting/familiar, people who find that just normal life and it's not about them, and people who feel like the world is about to end.
So for me, that almost daily lesson in feelings vs. facts (which used to, I have to say, operate quite differently for me, I had not very many facts and operated completely out of my feelings, because it was important to respond to threats as threats immediately) has over time caused me to really look at a) behaviour and b) non-reactive "feelings" but more intuition.
So to unpack your situation:
"shouting and throwing things" - for me, unless this is a twice-a-year occurrence not directed at a person, this is a deal breaker. We could not possibly live a grounded and calm life in a home with someone who did that. Ditto a lot of things like drunkenness. This is simply one of those things we need in order to have a collective good life.
If this is a regular occurrence in your home, I personally think that would be the answer for me.
You could give him a timeline to work this out (given that it sounds like he is working with you, although I note some of your changes are about your approach and not his reaction) that is under one year and see if he can change it. But I personally probably wouldn't, because my past and that pattern would be wholly toxic.
"lack of reliability" - my husband has a paperwork disorder, I swear. However, if he says he will pick up my child or fix a toilet, it will be done. He is generally a good partner and a hard worker. Because his unreliability is reliable, this is something I'm okay with. YMMV. I am pretty ok with picking up pieces, so this works ok.
"sleeping badly and disrupting our plans by sleeping most of the next day, I guess triggering the same fear of never being able to count on him." I've had this reaction and it was usually because I was overwhelmed in my life. I agree with a comment above that generally adults should be able to manage their sleep...but I sometimes also have sleepless nights. I think if this is a rare thing, it's worth working on your feelings on your end - just because someone is sick or needs sleep or fails the odd time doesn't mean you are abandoned. And as an adult you can develop the tools to ride out those times.
But to focus on this:
And yet, that triggered part of me is hurting so badly, and is so exhausted, and just wants to feel safe and not have to deal with difficult things. It wants me to leave the relationship.
I think the need and the exhaustion is real. It's worth taking a bit of time to explore whether that's a momentary feeling or a true understanding, but reading your post it really sounds like that's where you're actually landing.
Regardless of whether the relationship is the fix, or whether you can work with your partner, I think you have to honour that voice.
If you cannot feel safe at home, like not just for the 24 hrs after an argument that happens once every few years, but if you continually cannot feel safe, then something has to change and really - pretty quickly. If you can't turn to your partner and say "I need a safe home," and your partner provide that pretty quickly then it just isn't sustainable. Definitely talk to your therapist about it, but that seems very obvious to me.
For my collective group, that has always been a bottom line for us. No one's relationship can be one that makes other people feel terrible. No one's job can. No one's hobbies (or 'hobbies' like...I dunno researching serial killers) can. Everyone has to treat those around us ethically as well. Everyone has to treat everyone inside ethically too.
This is important not just to be decent human beings in a decent life, but because we/I/our brain exist because we created capacities to handle incredibly unethical, evil behaviour that was being done to us. In therapy, we collectively agreed that we would not use those capacities as a way of letting shit go on.*
If you were living with a young teenager who was exhausted and desperate saying that your partner's behaviour made her feel the way you've described feeling, what solution would you seek for her, knowing that she was not ever able to move out unless you did? What would you expect from your partner? What steps would you take if your partner couldn't address it?
*Obviously we are not perfect in this and commit lots of mistakes.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:43 AM on July 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Hey there. The younger you that was abused by a family member (and still lives within you) completely and totally deserved to feel safe and protected. Please consider, as an adult, that this is an opportunity to give Young You want they deserved. Swoop in and protect Young You! Get them out of the current situation where they feel scared and like a trapped animal. Think about ways that you can comfort and support yourself through the entire process.
posted by mcduff at 9:43 AM on July 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by mcduff at 9:43 AM on July 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I can't tell if these are red flags for abuse,
I'm sorry to say that yes, they are. A pattern of shouting and throwing things is abuse. And while it doesn't have to be abuse in order for you to decide to do something about it (you could still leave if it were only incompatibility, or even if you were just unhappy and couldn't put your finger on why), his behavior is, in fact, abusive.
My personal line for what counts as abuse is: Do you feel like you can talk to him about the problem? If I'm afraid to talk to my partner about something, if it feels like I'm walking on eggshells and silence is safer, that is a very clear sign that there is an abusive dynamic at hand and that my partner does not have my best interests at heart.
And what happens when you do talk to him about it? Does he take responsibility and find a clear solution, even if it takes a few tries? Or does he blame-shift and say that you're the problem for bringing it up, that you're not thinking about his feelings enough, that he can't control what his body needs, that if you're upset that's on you? Do you leave the conflict feeling disoriented and confused, even if you can't put your finger on why? Is that feeling increasing over time? Intense confusion is also a very clear indicator of an abusive dynamic.
my fight/flight response going haywire, just us being incompatible etc,
It would make sense that you feel unsafe, because your partner's behavior is not healthy or safe for you -- or for anyone else, regardless of past history of trauma. In a healthy relationship, both people's needs matter.
and whether I should leave the relationship.
Only you can decide what is right for you. The sense of immense loss that you describe is absolutely real. But I can tell you that you are strong, and you deserve better, and there are many people who love you and want you to thrive and have healthy love in your life.
I'm having trouble thinking clearly given my wildly varying emotional response to the situation at different times.
Abuse is an absolute mindfuck. It is so, so hard to hold in one's heart that the person you go to for comfort is also the one who is hurting you. It comes in cycles that both addict you to the good times and make you think the bad times are your fault, and that if only you could fix this one thing, everything would be better. It's not your fault. Your triggers are not what is causing your partner to behave badly.
I found this list of specific behaviors extremely helpful in identifying problematic relationship patterns. When you can name what's happening, it's easier to figure out what to do about it.
Additional complications due to possible undiagnosed neurodivergence.
There are plenty of neurodivergent people who don't use their neurodivergence as a weapon to shirk responsibility in their relationship. Some of them use it as a superpower to make sure they know what their partner needs and to hold up their end of the relationship.
Sending you gentle hugs, OP. Feel free to MeMail me if you'd like to talk in private.
posted by Questolicious at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry to say that yes, they are. A pattern of shouting and throwing things is abuse. And while it doesn't have to be abuse in order for you to decide to do something about it (you could still leave if it were only incompatibility, or even if you were just unhappy and couldn't put your finger on why), his behavior is, in fact, abusive.
My personal line for what counts as abuse is: Do you feel like you can talk to him about the problem? If I'm afraid to talk to my partner about something, if it feels like I'm walking on eggshells and silence is safer, that is a very clear sign that there is an abusive dynamic at hand and that my partner does not have my best interests at heart.
And what happens when you do talk to him about it? Does he take responsibility and find a clear solution, even if it takes a few tries? Or does he blame-shift and say that you're the problem for bringing it up, that you're not thinking about his feelings enough, that he can't control what his body needs, that if you're upset that's on you? Do you leave the conflict feeling disoriented and confused, even if you can't put your finger on why? Is that feeling increasing over time? Intense confusion is also a very clear indicator of an abusive dynamic.
my fight/flight response going haywire, just us being incompatible etc,
It would make sense that you feel unsafe, because your partner's behavior is not healthy or safe for you -- or for anyone else, regardless of past history of trauma. In a healthy relationship, both people's needs matter.
and whether I should leave the relationship.
Only you can decide what is right for you. The sense of immense loss that you describe is absolutely real. But I can tell you that you are strong, and you deserve better, and there are many people who love you and want you to thrive and have healthy love in your life.
I'm having trouble thinking clearly given my wildly varying emotional response to the situation at different times.
Abuse is an absolute mindfuck. It is so, so hard to hold in one's heart that the person you go to for comfort is also the one who is hurting you. It comes in cycles that both addict you to the good times and make you think the bad times are your fault, and that if only you could fix this one thing, everything would be better. It's not your fault. Your triggers are not what is causing your partner to behave badly.
I found this list of specific behaviors extremely helpful in identifying problematic relationship patterns. When you can name what's happening, it's easier to figure out what to do about it.
Additional complications due to possible undiagnosed neurodivergence.
There are plenty of neurodivergent people who don't use their neurodivergence as a weapon to shirk responsibility in their relationship. Some of them use it as a superpower to make sure they know what their partner needs and to hold up their end of the relationship.
Sending you gentle hugs, OP. Feel free to MeMail me if you'd like to talk in private.
posted by Questolicious at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
From what I am reading, you have a boyfriend who is sometimes a good boyfriend (supportive, good conversations, etc), sometimes kind of a drag (procrastinating and cancelling plans due to tiredness), and also sometimes yells at you and throws things (!!!!). That third bit is the deal breaker in my opinion. Nobody's perfect but you deserve a relationship where you always feel safe. Or to be single, it's fine! What would you say to a friend who had a boyfriend like yours and asked for advice? Wouldn't you advise her to break up, and tell her that she deserves better? Be that friend to yourself.
posted by emd3737 at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by emd3737 at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have been in a relationship where I could not make up my mind about staying or leaving for a really long time. It all felt so muddled and fuzzy and uncertain and I was afraid of making the wrong choice. Like, what if I break up and it turns out to have been a mistake?
It has now been several years since we broke up. And looking back I find it almost unbelievable how muddled by mind was while I was in the thick of things. We are wired for connection, and letting go of a relationship can be hard regardless of the quality of that relationship. The uncertainty and fear of making the wrong choice is, for some of us, just part of being attached to someone.
Just as an experiment, what if you were to look at this person in a cold, detached way?
If you were single right now, would you look for someone like him?
Is he a good partner, someone you can count on to have your back?
Is he the person you want to have by your side when things go wrong?
Is he someone you would trust to take care of a vulnerable loved one - a young child, an elderly relative?
If it were possible to leave without hurting his feelings, would you?
If he found someone else to be with, would part of you be secretly relieved?
If things are great (or just good) right now, is part of you waiting for the other shoe to drop?
Are you walking on eggshells around him at times?
Have the things ever been great between you for a sustained amount of time? Several months? Years? Or are things better for a few days to weeks?
Are you your best self around this person? Is he bringing out the best in you?
Can you fully relax around him? Do you feel carefree around him?
All the best.
posted by M. at 11:45 AM on July 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
It has now been several years since we broke up. And looking back I find it almost unbelievable how muddled by mind was while I was in the thick of things. We are wired for connection, and letting go of a relationship can be hard regardless of the quality of that relationship. The uncertainty and fear of making the wrong choice is, for some of us, just part of being attached to someone.
Just as an experiment, what if you were to look at this person in a cold, detached way?
If you were single right now, would you look for someone like him?
Is he a good partner, someone you can count on to have your back?
Is he the person you want to have by your side when things go wrong?
Is he someone you would trust to take care of a vulnerable loved one - a young child, an elderly relative?
If it were possible to leave without hurting his feelings, would you?
If he found someone else to be with, would part of you be secretly relieved?
If things are great (or just good) right now, is part of you waiting for the other shoe to drop?
Are you walking on eggshells around him at times?
Have the things ever been great between you for a sustained amount of time? Several months? Years? Or are things better for a few days to weeks?
Are you your best self around this person? Is he bringing out the best in you?
Can you fully relax around him? Do you feel carefree around him?
All the best.
posted by M. at 11:45 AM on July 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
Because this brings up basically identical extreme feelings, including an irrational feeling of anger, it leads me to doubt everything my gut was telling me about the previous situations. Clearly my gut is misfiring at least some of the time.
So I think it's better to think of your gut as an alert system that something might be amiss. Think of a smoke detector: sometimes it goes off and it's because you're cooking, and sometimes it goes off because there's a fire and you need to scram. You won't always know right away which one it is, so you evaluate the situation. You've done a good job here of delineating between when he's dropped the ball (fire) and when it's out of his control (cooking).
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:28 PM on July 12, 2023
So I think it's better to think of your gut as an alert system that something might be amiss. Think of a smoke detector: sometimes it goes off and it's because you're cooking, and sometimes it goes off because there's a fire and you need to scram. You won't always know right away which one it is, so you evaluate the situation. You've done a good job here of delineating between when he's dropped the ball (fire) and when it's out of his control (cooking).
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:28 PM on July 12, 2023
You deserve to be with someone who can manage and express their anger without causing you harm.
posted by CMcG at 12:29 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by CMcG at 12:29 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
you are right that an instinct can be wrong, and instincts can tell you incompatible things at different times. though I would remind you that privately feeling crazy or untrustworthy is a common effect of abuse, and that all abusers are nice some of the time; it is in their interest for you to believe that the nice parts are the 'real them'.
if he is not capable of controlling the physical manifestations of his temper, you should leave because it has the effect of abuse on you. it may be the case that he does not want to hurt you or your feelings, but he does do it. if it's involuntary and he can't help it, that makes it worse for you because he'll never stop.
whether it is "objectively" abuse depends on things like: is he throwing things that belong to you? throwing them at you? is he shouting slurs or insults at you, or just saying regular argument things very loudly? This matters to things like god's ultimate disposition of his soul on judgment day. It does not matter at all to things like: Is this good for you. It's not good for you.
it is all right to have personal standards for acceptable treatment that don't line up with the various legal definitions of abuse. I would say it is imperative. Yours don't have to be the same as other people's. Mine aren't. for example, I don't care if a man shouts in exasperation near me, it doesn't scare me. but if he ever once, no matter how calmly and quietly, whispered "bitch" at me, I would throw him out, never speak to him again, and tell the truth about him to everyone I knew. some people would think this is an over-reaction, and I pity them. to the point, what is intolerable to you is intolerable to you. you are the one who decides. you can't make him stop, but you can get out.
you do not have to find out what's really in his heart in order to make the right decision.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:51 PM on July 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
if he is not capable of controlling the physical manifestations of his temper, you should leave because it has the effect of abuse on you. it may be the case that he does not want to hurt you or your feelings, but he does do it. if it's involuntary and he can't help it, that makes it worse for you because he'll never stop.
whether it is "objectively" abuse depends on things like: is he throwing things that belong to you? throwing them at you? is he shouting slurs or insults at you, or just saying regular argument things very loudly? This matters to things like god's ultimate disposition of his soul on judgment day. It does not matter at all to things like: Is this good for you. It's not good for you.
it is all right to have personal standards for acceptable treatment that don't line up with the various legal definitions of abuse. I would say it is imperative. Yours don't have to be the same as other people's. Mine aren't. for example, I don't care if a man shouts in exasperation near me, it doesn't scare me. but if he ever once, no matter how calmly and quietly, whispered "bitch" at me, I would throw him out, never speak to him again, and tell the truth about him to everyone I knew. some people would think this is an over-reaction, and I pity them. to the point, what is intolerable to you is intolerable to you. you are the one who decides. you can't make him stop, but you can get out.
you do not have to find out what's really in his heart in order to make the right decision.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:51 PM on July 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
I was in a relationship where I felt very much like you are describing now. I was so confused and uncertain about all of my feelings I even remember thinking, "I wish he would just hit me so I would be 100% sure this is an abusive relationship and then I would know for sure I need to leave." I kept looking for "proof" that the relationship was bad and that leaving was the right thing to do.
But here's the thing I didn't realize, the proof I needed wasn't in his behavior it was in my feelings. My fear, my anxiety, my looking for a reason to leave.
Yes, I grew up with lots of trauma, and yes, I was very reactive to some of his behaviors. Overreactive even.
My needs were minimized and ignored all through childhood, so I learned to ignore my own needs.
I think knowing there was some fault in my self led me to constantly being unsure if I was the problem. I thought I just needed to fix my reactivateness and learn to be okay with him as an imperfect person. No one is perfect and sometime he is great, and l know he means well, etc. Bacically I made excuses, ignored my needs and cycled between times of wanting to runaway and times of feeling very close.
Here's what I wish I knew at the time.
A relationship doesn't have to be abusive to be a bad relationship that you should leave.
Non-physical abuse (throwing things and yelling) is still abuse. Even if he is sorry after.
A relationship that cycles though emotional highs and lows regularly is not a good relationship.
A good relationship and a good partner don't leave you feeling unbalance and uncertain and unable to trust your own feelings.
You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to avoide upsetting your partner. You should be able to ask for anything you need. You mention several times you try to avoid making him feel shame for his yelling and throwing things and procrastination. While yes, you shouldn't try to shame him, you also shouldn't need to avoid the topic to spare his feelings. A healthy relationship can handle hard conversations.
Looking back now I can see 100% that my previous relationship was abusive, and eventually did turn physically abusive, but really, I wish I had a better understanding that a relationship doesn't need to be abusive for it to be not right for me.
I'm an a great relationship now. It's night and day. The most triggering thing my partner has ever done is sneeze too loud, lol. Now i look back and wonder why I ever put up with a reltionship that was regularly making me feel bad.
A relationship should not make you feel bad.
You can and should have a relationship where you feel safe, comfortable, and sure of your own feelings.
From this internet stranger who has felt exactly the way you feel now, please know those bad feelings you are experiencing are not because you are broken. They are happening because you are in a bad situation. Your trauma is telling you as much. You just need to learn that your feelings are valid and important. Even if they come from trauma, they are important, they are valid, they are telling you you are not happy and not feeling safe.
If you are like me, and it sounds like you are, the problem comes in not knowing this isn't the way things should be because it's the way they've always been, right? Living in anxiety, fear, reactivity your whole life means you don't know how things should be. Even though your brain is screaming to run away and live peacefully alone, you keep convincing yourself to stay.
I promise you, this is not the way relationship should feel and life is better when you get distance from it.
posted by CleverClover at 4:08 PM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
But here's the thing I didn't realize, the proof I needed wasn't in his behavior it was in my feelings. My fear, my anxiety, my looking for a reason to leave.
Yes, I grew up with lots of trauma, and yes, I was very reactive to some of his behaviors. Overreactive even.
My needs were minimized and ignored all through childhood, so I learned to ignore my own needs.
I think knowing there was some fault in my self led me to constantly being unsure if I was the problem. I thought I just needed to fix my reactivateness and learn to be okay with him as an imperfect person. No one is perfect and sometime he is great, and l know he means well, etc. Bacically I made excuses, ignored my needs and cycled between times of wanting to runaway and times of feeling very close.
Here's what I wish I knew at the time.
A relationship doesn't have to be abusive to be a bad relationship that you should leave.
Non-physical abuse (throwing things and yelling) is still abuse. Even if he is sorry after.
A relationship that cycles though emotional highs and lows regularly is not a good relationship.
A good relationship and a good partner don't leave you feeling unbalance and uncertain and unable to trust your own feelings.
You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to avoide upsetting your partner. You should be able to ask for anything you need. You mention several times you try to avoid making him feel shame for his yelling and throwing things and procrastination. While yes, you shouldn't try to shame him, you also shouldn't need to avoid the topic to spare his feelings. A healthy relationship can handle hard conversations.
Looking back now I can see 100% that my previous relationship was abusive, and eventually did turn physically abusive, but really, I wish I had a better understanding that a relationship doesn't need to be abusive for it to be not right for me.
I'm an a great relationship now. It's night and day. The most triggering thing my partner has ever done is sneeze too loud, lol. Now i look back and wonder why I ever put up with a reltionship that was regularly making me feel bad.
A relationship should not make you feel bad.
You can and should have a relationship where you feel safe, comfortable, and sure of your own feelings.
From this internet stranger who has felt exactly the way you feel now, please know those bad feelings you are experiencing are not because you are broken. They are happening because you are in a bad situation. Your trauma is telling you as much. You just need to learn that your feelings are valid and important. Even if they come from trauma, they are important, they are valid, they are telling you you are not happy and not feeling safe.
If you are like me, and it sounds like you are, the problem comes in not knowing this isn't the way things should be because it's the way they've always been, right? Living in anxiety, fear, reactivity your whole life means you don't know how things should be. Even though your brain is screaming to run away and live peacefully alone, you keep convincing yourself to stay.
I promise you, this is not the way relationship should feel and life is better when you get distance from it.
posted by CleverClover at 4:08 PM on July 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
shouting and throwing things;
Forget your trauma response, the situation that caused the trauma in the first place has left you feeling that this behavior is within the range of "normal" or "acceptable."
Also, no trauma is necessary for someone to have strong fight, freeze, or flight reflexes with those going on. That's built right into our lizard brain.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:31 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Forget your trauma response, the situation that caused the trauma in the first place has left you feeling that this behavior is within the range of "normal" or "acceptable."
Also, no trauma is necessary for someone to have strong fight, freeze, or flight reflexes with those going on. That's built right into our lizard brain.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:31 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
It seems to me like you think past trauma makes you overreact to his yelling and throwing things.
But it also happens that past abuse makes us on some level under-react and doubt ourselves to the tune of Isn't that just how relationships are sometimes? Nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect either. I was angry too.
Thing is, the guy yelling at you and throwing things is just as much who he IS as the part where he is nice after. "How he really is underneath" includes the yelling.
posted by M. at 7:35 PM on July 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
But it also happens that past abuse makes us on some level under-react and doubt ourselves to the tune of Isn't that just how relationships are sometimes? Nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect either. I was angry too.
Thing is, the guy yelling at you and throwing things is just as much who he IS as the part where he is nice after. "How he really is underneath" includes the yelling.
posted by M. at 7:35 PM on July 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
There’s more I can say privately if you care to send me a message. A helpful idea presented to me when I was struggling with making a decision in the same (is this abusive or am I just too triggered?) dilemma was a sort of “rule of threes.” The first time something happens that hits wrong, you bring it up. Do you get an apology, a commitment that it won’t happen again? The second time something happens, you bring it up again. How is it received? Is there apology plus a recognition that maybe there’s need to work on preventing this at a deeper level? Is there a plan to move forward that makes you feel heard and respected and safe? Each of these encounters is giving you material to try to understand if these triggers are possible for your partner to change, because it doesn’t take long to understand that a pattern of behaviour is not going to change, no matter what apologies or promises are given. Your experience matters more than the promises. The third time something happens, you have a lot of evidence that you are indeed experiencing a red flag that is not a growth opportunity in your presence. I suggest that you count how many times beyond three you’re gone already before making any decisions. For many of us, we’ve given far, far more than three tries and it’s worth considering an exit plan.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:38 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:38 PM on July 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Everyone else has already given amazing responses. I just want to flag, in case this is what you're thinking: just because you suspect he may have undiagnosed mental health issues, that does NOT justify his behaviour. There are plenty of people with undiagnosed mental health issues who do not use that as an excuse to be a bad partner. Instead they work harder than neurotypical people to continue being a nice person to be around. You deserve that kind of love, not what you're currently getting.
posted by guessthis at 2:42 AM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by guessthis at 2:42 AM on July 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thank you so much for the kind and helpful responses! The concrete resources for deciding whether to stay/leave a relationship without relying on gut feeling and the confirmation that other people have also experienced similar things and that I am not alone or crazy were particularly helpful. I feel a bit numb and overwhelmed so I don't know if the sentiment will come across as strongly as I'd like it to, but I'm really grateful.posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:50 AM on July 13, 2023
I think where I'm getting to with your help is that even if this is not a textbook abusive situation, and maybe a different person could be happy in it, it will still not change enough for me personally to be ok in it. For instance, "for me, unless [throwing things] is a twice-a-year occurrence not directed at a person, this is a deal breaker" -- it was never directed and a person, and he hasn't thrown anything in at least a couple of years after conversations about how that needed to change so yes he is acknowledging the problem and working with me. The shouting never involved slurs or personal attacks, just being loud, and is happening maybe a few times a year. Unfortunately this was scary enough that now if I sense the hint of a raised voice, or a tone that sounds frustrated from him, which happens several times a week, I still get triggered. Which might be me being too reactive or not, but I guess it's not going to change.
I don't know if it matters, but to link guessthis and Lyn Never's responses, I had been thinking about undiagnosed mental health problems as being an external force type of difficult relationship, ie a health issue, and it feels bad to want to leave due to a reason like that. It doesn't change the point above, though.
One small point I wanted to clear up that came out wrong in my initial post. Re bullying about anger issues, this was something that happened as a child, with other children noticing he could get easily frustrated and engaging in repetitive name calling/antagonisation etc until he shouted, then using that to get him in trouble without consequence to themselves. I just wanted to acknowledge separate from everything else that that kind of bullying happens and I feel for anyone that experienced it.
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posted by seanmpuckett at 7:06 AM on July 12, 2023 [20 favorites]