I Chose to Reconcile with Ex while Dating Someone. What Would You Do?
May 8, 2023 12:06 PM Subscribe
Above all else, this was honestly communicated with all parties. I notified the person I was dating that I wanted to talk with my ex for closure, and I notified my ex that I was seeing someone but was willing to see him to try reconciling. So, everyone was fully aware of the situation.
I (34/F) started seeing someone (34/M) last week, and really liked him. A lot. I dated someone (26/M) for about 4 weeks from mid-February to mid-March, and he left in a blindsiding way when he was supposedly deported. I thought he was more invested than he was, and I ignored the pile of red flags. I grieved the relationship and accepted I'd never hear from him again. Despite dating this new person wherein we were equally invested, when my ex reached out saying he was back in California, I wanted closure. I made a poor decision by doing this, and now I don't know what to do (if anything) for the person I was dating to give me another chance.
This was such an out-of-character decision for me to make. I'm not the type of person to entertain the thought of rekindling with an ex, let alone leaving someone I'm seeing for that ex. I'm kicking myself over it, and am filled with regret and remorse. I feel like a terrible person. Why did I do this?
When my ex and I were together, I ignored the red flags. Our first date was wonderful, and he seemed like exactly the type of partner I would want. So, I invested myself in him, and thought he did the same. It was all just love-bombing, and after we were physically intimate on our second date, he became a completely different person. Long story short, he was only using me for sex and companionship because he didn't want to do things by himself. He didn't tell his family about me for awhile out of fear of disapproval (he's Indian, I'm White). It turned out he was lying about so much more than I was aware of. When he broke up with me, he said it was because he was being deported (error on work visa), and that he couldn't do an LDR because he needs to physically be around a partner all of the time. I don't even think this was true; I'm fairly certain he was just on vacation to visit family since he was only there for 2.5 weeks. Now that I've seen his true colors, I believe he's a narcissist. He doesn't know how to take another person into account as an actual, whole human with needs. He was selfish, especially in the bedroom. There were so many ways he mistreated me, but I wanted so badly to believe it was because he was hurt from his past relationship (his only other one), etc.
When I matched with the person I started seeing last week (dating app), our connection was genuine. Our fundamental values aligned well, we had many common interests, and we're both in therapy and find it crucial to do so. He seems like a truly good person. I was already planning a road trip by myself to another part of the state, and invited him to join after we had two wonderful dates before that. We had an incredible weekend together, and bonded emotionally, mentally, and physically. He said he wanted to take things slow, and that he previously would invest himself in someone too quickly, so wanted to be sure to be more cautious. I told him the same. I really, truly liked (and still do) this person.
When my ex reached back out, his messages were already full of excuses, but I let my selfish need for closure cloud my judgment. He was too "tired" (lazy) to do a video call, but he invited me over to sit beside him and talk. It was late, so I told him he could come to me the next day. Another long story short: he came over, we cried and held each other, he told me he'll never let me go again, I'm his sweetheart, etc. It felt like I couldn't stop him from taking off my clothes, literally. He wouldn't stop even when I said I wasn't ready for this. I think I did it so that I could know for certain that that's all he wanted me for. It felt like my body wasn't entirely mine. Even though he already demonstrated that beforehand. We ended up being intimate, and afterwards he was making every excuse to get out of there. He wouldn't even touch me as I walked him to his car. He didn't message me when he returned home as he said he would, and didn't speak to me again. I broke things off with him, stating it was an unhealthy relationship for me.
The person I was dating said he understood why I wanted to talk things out with my ex, and said that he really liked me and still wanted to get to know me. I told him the same, and even said, "I think this may be toxic, and I'll be speaking with my therapist tomorrow to learn how to best get out" when I told him about trying to reconcile with my ex. He still wanted to keep in touch, though, and communicated this. I expressed mutual feelings. I'd expressed beforehand that if it didn't work out, I still wanted to get to know him, but realized that could make a person feel like an option, which is the last thing I'd ever want to make someone feel like. But he still consented and reciprocated wanting to get to know me better. Ever since I told him that it didn't work with my ex, he hasn't responded. I completely understand why, but why would someone say they still wanted to get to know me if they aren't responding?
My main question here is: What (if anything) can I do for a second chance with this person? I wasn't used to being treated so well by someone, and on an impulse I let something precious go. I've apologized many times, saying this is not at all who I am, and that I hope our dates and weekend together have demonstrated this more than my foolish decision has. I told him I made a terrible mistake. I left him a voice note stating that it would never happen again, and that I truly valued our connection and who he is as a person, and want to get to know him better the right way. There's nothing I can do to undo what I've done. The worst part is that he's only seeing this snapshot of me; it's not a true reflection of my character. I promised him this. What would you do? If you were the one who was hurt, is there anything that would implore you to want to give the other person one more chance? He hasn't unmatched me on the dating app where we met, nor has he blocked me. Not sure if this holds any significance, but I'm holding out hope for this person.
This was such an out-of-character decision for me to make. I'm not the type of person to entertain the thought of rekindling with an ex, let alone leaving someone I'm seeing for that ex. I'm kicking myself over it, and am filled with regret and remorse. I feel like a terrible person. Why did I do this?
When my ex and I were together, I ignored the red flags. Our first date was wonderful, and he seemed like exactly the type of partner I would want. So, I invested myself in him, and thought he did the same. It was all just love-bombing, and after we were physically intimate on our second date, he became a completely different person. Long story short, he was only using me for sex and companionship because he didn't want to do things by himself. He didn't tell his family about me for awhile out of fear of disapproval (he's Indian, I'm White). It turned out he was lying about so much more than I was aware of. When he broke up with me, he said it was because he was being deported (error on work visa), and that he couldn't do an LDR because he needs to physically be around a partner all of the time. I don't even think this was true; I'm fairly certain he was just on vacation to visit family since he was only there for 2.5 weeks. Now that I've seen his true colors, I believe he's a narcissist. He doesn't know how to take another person into account as an actual, whole human with needs. He was selfish, especially in the bedroom. There were so many ways he mistreated me, but I wanted so badly to believe it was because he was hurt from his past relationship (his only other one), etc.
When I matched with the person I started seeing last week (dating app), our connection was genuine. Our fundamental values aligned well, we had many common interests, and we're both in therapy and find it crucial to do so. He seems like a truly good person. I was already planning a road trip by myself to another part of the state, and invited him to join after we had two wonderful dates before that. We had an incredible weekend together, and bonded emotionally, mentally, and physically. He said he wanted to take things slow, and that he previously would invest himself in someone too quickly, so wanted to be sure to be more cautious. I told him the same. I really, truly liked (and still do) this person.
When my ex reached back out, his messages were already full of excuses, but I let my selfish need for closure cloud my judgment. He was too "tired" (lazy) to do a video call, but he invited me over to sit beside him and talk. It was late, so I told him he could come to me the next day. Another long story short: he came over, we cried and held each other, he told me he'll never let me go again, I'm his sweetheart, etc. It felt like I couldn't stop him from taking off my clothes, literally. He wouldn't stop even when I said I wasn't ready for this. I think I did it so that I could know for certain that that's all he wanted me for. It felt like my body wasn't entirely mine. Even though he already demonstrated that beforehand. We ended up being intimate, and afterwards he was making every excuse to get out of there. He wouldn't even touch me as I walked him to his car. He didn't message me when he returned home as he said he would, and didn't speak to me again. I broke things off with him, stating it was an unhealthy relationship for me.
The person I was dating said he understood why I wanted to talk things out with my ex, and said that he really liked me and still wanted to get to know me. I told him the same, and even said, "I think this may be toxic, and I'll be speaking with my therapist tomorrow to learn how to best get out" when I told him about trying to reconcile with my ex. He still wanted to keep in touch, though, and communicated this. I expressed mutual feelings. I'd expressed beforehand that if it didn't work out, I still wanted to get to know him, but realized that could make a person feel like an option, which is the last thing I'd ever want to make someone feel like. But he still consented and reciprocated wanting to get to know me better. Ever since I told him that it didn't work with my ex, he hasn't responded. I completely understand why, but why would someone say they still wanted to get to know me if they aren't responding?
My main question here is: What (if anything) can I do for a second chance with this person? I wasn't used to being treated so well by someone, and on an impulse I let something precious go. I've apologized many times, saying this is not at all who I am, and that I hope our dates and weekend together have demonstrated this more than my foolish decision has. I told him I made a terrible mistake. I left him a voice note stating that it would never happen again, and that I truly valued our connection and who he is as a person, and want to get to know him better the right way. There's nothing I can do to undo what I've done. The worst part is that he's only seeing this snapshot of me; it's not a true reflection of my character. I promised him this. What would you do? If you were the one who was hurt, is there anything that would implore you to want to give the other person one more chance? He hasn't unmatched me on the dating app where we met, nor has he blocked me. Not sure if this holds any significance, but I'm holding out hope for this person.
You met him literally a week ago??? You are not in a relationship.
You are not in a relationship with someone you met a week ago.
I need to reiterate this because you are an adult who is dating adults. Meeting someone a week ago doesn't confer any relationship obligations in either direction. You are not in a relationship with this new person.
If they believe, after one week and no defining conversation, that they are in a relationship with you, or have exclusive relationship expectations of you, this is a red flag.
If you believe, after one week and no defining conversation, that you are in a relationship with someone and have exclusive relationship expectations of that person, you need to discuss this with your therapist. I might even say you should not date anyone at all until you're able to work through some healthy relationship boundaries with a mental health professional.
The good news is that because you are not in a relationship with someone you met a week ago, there isn't anything to ruin.
posted by phunniemee at 12:17 PM on May 8, 2023 [129 favorites]
You are not in a relationship with someone you met a week ago.
I need to reiterate this because you are an adult who is dating adults. Meeting someone a week ago doesn't confer any relationship obligations in either direction. You are not in a relationship with this new person.
If they believe, after one week and no defining conversation, that they are in a relationship with you, or have exclusive relationship expectations of you, this is a red flag.
If you believe, after one week and no defining conversation, that you are in a relationship with someone and have exclusive relationship expectations of that person, you need to discuss this with your therapist. I might even say you should not date anyone at all until you're able to work through some healthy relationship boundaries with a mental health professional.
The good news is that because you are not in a relationship with someone you met a week ago, there isn't anything to ruin.
posted by phunniemee at 12:17 PM on May 8, 2023 [129 favorites]
“Closure” isn’t a real thing. When your brain tells you it’s looking for closure, take a closer look at what it’s really wanting.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:18 PM on May 8, 2023 [30 favorites]
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:18 PM on May 8, 2023 [30 favorites]
Hey, it sounds like you're being really hard on yourself here, and maybe are interpreting silence from someone in a way that makes it your fault, when it could be that he got sick, is busy, is trying to prioritize working on himself and his feelings before responding. I think giving it some time and talking with your therapist is the way to go to try to process some really difficult stuff.
I also wanted to point out that you had a non-consensual sexual encounter with an ex, where you say he wouldn't stop and you couldn't stop him from taking off your clothes and you felt like your body wasn't yours. That is a description that reads to me as extremely typical of someone describing sexual assault. If that had happened to me, I would be messed up, and it's totally normal to displace that discomfort and trauma onto obsessively thinking about something else, like a one-week relationship that seemed super promising. I don't think tough love in responses here is the way to go: you are describing your ex sexually assaulting you and that is NOT YOUR FAULT and you didn't mess anything up. Take care.
posted by lizard music at 12:20 PM on May 8, 2023 [68 favorites]
I also wanted to point out that you had a non-consensual sexual encounter with an ex, where you say he wouldn't stop and you couldn't stop him from taking off your clothes and you felt like your body wasn't yours. That is a description that reads to me as extremely typical of someone describing sexual assault. If that had happened to me, I would be messed up, and it's totally normal to displace that discomfort and trauma onto obsessively thinking about something else, like a one-week relationship that seemed super promising. I don't think tough love in responses here is the way to go: you are describing your ex sexually assaulting you and that is NOT YOUR FAULT and you didn't mess anything up. Take care.
posted by lizard music at 12:20 PM on May 8, 2023 [68 favorites]
I agree with lizard music. This sounds to me like sexual assault.
I also think that you are implicitly attaching some very high emotional stakes to some very short relationships. That probably does merit thinking about. But assault can have its own gravity and maybe that is part of the skew I see. I’m really sorry this happened to you.
posted by eirias at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2023 [34 favorites]
I also think that you are implicitly attaching some very high emotional stakes to some very short relationships. That probably does merit thinking about. But assault can have its own gravity and maybe that is part of the skew I see. I’m really sorry this happened to you.
posted by eirias at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2023 [34 favorites]
Agreeing with lizard music that you definitely experienced sexual assault, and wtih that I think you should definitely work with your therapist to process.
But you also made a poor choice regarding the potential to lose out on a good relationship by going back to the old guy. Yes, new thing could have worked out if new guy felt okay with your choice, but he doesn't, so that's where you are.
Both of these things can be true.
I read over your posting history and it seems that you are jumping from relationship to relationship (4 in the last six months or so?), with a lot of intense emotions in each one. I think it might benefit you to take some time away from dating and work on yourself and healing with your therapist.
Good luck with everything.
posted by greta simone at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2023 [20 favorites]
But you also made a poor choice regarding the potential to lose out on a good relationship by going back to the old guy. Yes, new thing could have worked out if new guy felt okay with your choice, but he doesn't, so that's where you are.
Both of these things can be true.
I read over your posting history and it seems that you are jumping from relationship to relationship (4 in the last six months or so?), with a lot of intense emotions in each one. I think it might benefit you to take some time away from dating and work on yourself and healing with your therapist.
Good luck with everything.
posted by greta simone at 12:33 PM on May 8, 2023 [20 favorites]
I want to second that it sounds like you were sexually assaulted, and it could be good to spend some time thinking about that and exploring your feelings about it.
It's good that it helped you get clarity about your ex and the need to be away from him.
On starting to read, I thought you made a mistake in initially telling the new person you were seeing your ex "for closure" but telling your ex you were interested in reconciling. But your full story makes it clear you didn't intend to have sex with your ex, and didn't consent when it happened.
Kudos to you for being honest with yourself and with the new guy. He may be gone from your life, but this willingness to be honest in hard situations will serve you well in the future. Also, if you're like me, this experience with your ex will help you avoid getting into bad situations in the future, because you'll have learned from this and you may well develop from it an intuition about people.
If you do what you need to do in therapy and in your life to process what's happened to you, you'll find a lovely person to be with. It's OK to be sad about New Guy, because an awesome week with lots of promise is not nothing, and there was potential there, and it's ok to grieve that. Maybe you two will be in touch again when you're on better footing, and maybe it will be someone else you connect with, but I feel sure you'll have other opportunities to have the kind of relationship you want.
I'm rooting for you.
posted by Well I never at 12:35 PM on May 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's good that it helped you get clarity about your ex and the need to be away from him.
On starting to read, I thought you made a mistake in initially telling the new person you were seeing your ex "for closure" but telling your ex you were interested in reconciling. But your full story makes it clear you didn't intend to have sex with your ex, and didn't consent when it happened.
Kudos to you for being honest with yourself and with the new guy. He may be gone from your life, but this willingness to be honest in hard situations will serve you well in the future. Also, if you're like me, this experience with your ex will help you avoid getting into bad situations in the future, because you'll have learned from this and you may well develop from it an intuition about people.
If you do what you need to do in therapy and in your life to process what's happened to you, you'll find a lovely person to be with. It's OK to be sad about New Guy, because an awesome week with lots of promise is not nothing, and there was potential there, and it's ok to grieve that. Maybe you two will be in touch again when you're on better footing, and maybe it will be someone else you connect with, but I feel sure you'll have other opportunities to have the kind of relationship you want.
I'm rooting for you.
posted by Well I never at 12:35 PM on May 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't want to sound unkind, but I would suggest that you cease dating anyone and stop communicating with either of the men you mentioned. As others have said, 1 week is not a relationship and you seem to have gotten much too invested in someone you just met and do not know. It also strikes me that you don't seem to have learned much about managing emotions and expectations from the very short (and poor) relationship you had with the prior individual. I'd suggest taking a significant dating break and and working with your therapist.
posted by fies at 12:40 PM on May 8, 2023 [53 favorites]
posted by fies at 12:40 PM on May 8, 2023 [53 favorites]
When lovebombing works, it's because the recipient prefers a fairy-tale & fireworks level of praise and pursuit, rather than a calm, quiet, functional relationship.
When your ex came back to hoover you, it sounds like you ignored the red flags because he gave you a hyberbolic amount of praise. He said he'll never let you go, that you're his sweetheart, etc. When you chose between extreme praise (with red flags) versus a calm, pleasant getting-to-know-you date with one-week-guy, you chose the extreme option.
Now that one-week-guy is less responsive, you're turning him into a more extreme option too. You're casting him as the fairy-tale guy who loved you so much that he was willing to take you back after you dumped him for your ex. You're sending him dramatic messages about forgiveness and character and intense feelings.
You've told him that this is not your true character, but it seems like you've consistently chosen the more dramatic, chase-heavy path. It seems difficult to convince him that you've changed that preference in a single week. Perhaps you could suggest having a casual date (e.g. lunch) and show him over a period of weeks that you're excited about non-dramatic getting-to-know-you dates.
posted by cheesecake at 12:58 PM on May 8, 2023 [28 favorites]
When your ex came back to hoover you, it sounds like you ignored the red flags because he gave you a hyberbolic amount of praise. He said he'll never let you go, that you're his sweetheart, etc. When you chose between extreme praise (with red flags) versus a calm, pleasant getting-to-know-you date with one-week-guy, you chose the extreme option.
Now that one-week-guy is less responsive, you're turning him into a more extreme option too. You're casting him as the fairy-tale guy who loved you so much that he was willing to take you back after you dumped him for your ex. You're sending him dramatic messages about forgiveness and character and intense feelings.
You've told him that this is not your true character, but it seems like you've consistently chosen the more dramatic, chase-heavy path. It seems difficult to convince him that you've changed that preference in a single week. Perhaps you could suggest having a casual date (e.g. lunch) and show him over a period of weeks that you're excited about non-dramatic getting-to-know-you dates.
posted by cheesecake at 12:58 PM on May 8, 2023 [28 favorites]
I consider myself a skeptic, not a cynic, but I have doubts (more like red flags) about your ex. I think you already saw them, but you may be suffering from sunk cost fallacy, which you term as "closure". One doesn't get "deported" for work visa problems. That's not how USCIS works. The whole thing really feels like an concocted excuse to end the relationship, then keep you "on the hook" as a booty call on his terms, not yours.
I concur that you probably need a relationship break and talk with your therapist about these choices and why are you making them.
posted by kschang at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
I concur that you probably need a relationship break and talk with your therapist about these choices and why are you making them.
posted by kschang at 1:01 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
I agree you were sexually assaulted, and also that you are putting too much weight on a couple of dates. You also didn't have to tell the new guy anything about your ex - personally, if I've just had just a couple of dates with someone I assume they are potentially seeing other people and that's OK - but if they were to start give me the play-by-play of their entanglements with an ex, that (the communicating it all to me) would strike me as bad judgement, and I'd be less inclined to see them again.
Again, I am very sorry you were sexually assaulted. The only thing you can do right now is wait to see if this new guy reaches out again, and process this with the help of your therapist.
posted by coffeecat at 1:30 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Again, I am very sorry you were sexually assaulted. The only thing you can do right now is wait to see if this new guy reaches out again, and process this with the help of your therapist.
posted by coffeecat at 1:30 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Please do talk with your therapist about all of this - the sexual assault, why you felt compelled to seek closure with someone who was repeatedly awful to you, why you’re so invested in a new person you’ve barely met, how you reconcile “let’s take it slow” with “let’s go on a road trip together”, etc. There’s a lot going on here that could use more support than Metafilter can give you.
But to focus in on your specific question: give him whatever space he needs to consider. Stop with the messages. If I were in his shoes the best thing you could do is take a step back and give me space.
You need this time to focus on yourself, anyway. Please take care of yourself right now and try to stop spiraling about what someone you don’t know in any meaningful way thinks about you.
posted by Stacey at 1:46 PM on May 8, 2023 [8 favorites]
But to focus in on your specific question: give him whatever space he needs to consider. Stop with the messages. If I were in his shoes the best thing you could do is take a step back and give me space.
You need this time to focus on yourself, anyway. Please take care of yourself right now and try to stop spiraling about what someone you don’t know in any meaningful way thinks about you.
posted by Stacey at 1:46 PM on May 8, 2023 [8 favorites]
I remember your previous questions without even looking back in your Ask history. The best advice anyone can give you is to get off the dating apps, stop dating entirely for an indefinite time, and do a lot of hard work with your therapist to find out why you keep repeating the same pattern of getting very quickly and deeply attached to men you don’t know well, having things end badly, and then tormenting yourself with self-recrimination. You should not be dating anyone, full stop, until you do some digging into these questions.
posted by holborne at 1:51 PM on May 8, 2023 [53 favorites]
posted by holborne at 1:51 PM on May 8, 2023 [53 favorites]
Best answer: I'm gonna be real with you, if I was the new guy, there's not really anything you could do to "fix" things at this point. It's been a week. That much drama after a week--which, honestly, does not even count as "dating", that is still getting to know each other and feeling things out territory--tells me the whole relationship is going to be full of drama. The guy literally said he wants to take it slow and yet you are going zero-to-months'-worth-of-relationship drama stuffed into, like, a week. It's for the best for both of you if no second chance happens and you never contact each other again.
The sexual encounter you describe with the ex sounds like sexual assault, and I'm so sorry about that. You said no, and your desires weren't respected. That is not your fault and never will be. However, until you figure out why you consistently do this: When my ex and I were together, I ignored the red flags, you need to stop dating. This seems to be a consistent pattern for you, based on your prior questions. You need to resolve these unhealthy attachment patterns before you can start dating again.
You were with the ex for four weeks, and you say He didn't tell his family about me for awhile. What?? It was four weeks. That's not "telling the family" territory. That's barely even telling anyone "oh, I'm seeing someone" territory. Please, please, please figure out why you invest so heavily and so quickly into these relationships when the timespan involved does not merit it. Please learn to set more moderate expectations of new relationships. You say the other guy had red flags, that you thought he was more invested than he was, but you being so quickly invested so often is an enormous red flag of your own. The way you intensify these relationships so quickly is the red flag you yourself are waving, and you've been waving it with the new guy too, after only a week. He's right to take a step back and to worry about toxicity, and the best thing you can do is respect that and not contact him for your own closure.
Again, you cannot keep dating until you figure out why you replicate this pattern over and over and over again. You're investing heavily in these men you don't know, after mere days together. This isn't sustainable. It's not kind to you, and as you've just found out with this new guy, it's not kind to the guy involved either. In this case, he specifically said he wanted to take things slow. That doesn't seem like something you are able/willing to do. So let him go and don't contact him. He's already expressed the concern that your nascent relationship could be toxic, so don't prove him right.
posted by yasaman at 2:16 PM on May 8, 2023 [72 favorites]
The sexual encounter you describe with the ex sounds like sexual assault, and I'm so sorry about that. You said no, and your desires weren't respected. That is not your fault and never will be. However, until you figure out why you consistently do this: When my ex and I were together, I ignored the red flags, you need to stop dating. This seems to be a consistent pattern for you, based on your prior questions. You need to resolve these unhealthy attachment patterns before you can start dating again.
You were with the ex for four weeks, and you say He didn't tell his family about me for awhile. What?? It was four weeks. That's not "telling the family" territory. That's barely even telling anyone "oh, I'm seeing someone" territory. Please, please, please figure out why you invest so heavily and so quickly into these relationships when the timespan involved does not merit it. Please learn to set more moderate expectations of new relationships. You say the other guy had red flags, that you thought he was more invested than he was, but you being so quickly invested so often is an enormous red flag of your own. The way you intensify these relationships so quickly is the red flag you yourself are waving, and you've been waving it with the new guy too, after only a week. He's right to take a step back and to worry about toxicity, and the best thing you can do is respect that and not contact him for your own closure.
Again, you cannot keep dating until you figure out why you replicate this pattern over and over and over again. You're investing heavily in these men you don't know, after mere days together. This isn't sustainable. It's not kind to you, and as you've just found out with this new guy, it's not kind to the guy involved either. In this case, he specifically said he wanted to take things slow. That doesn't seem like something you are able/willing to do. So let him go and don't contact him. He's already expressed the concern that your nascent relationship could be toxic, so don't prove him right.
posted by yasaman at 2:16 PM on May 8, 2023 [72 favorites]
If a person told me they needed to engage with an ex who had told them they were being deported, went dark, and reappeared two weeks later the only thing that would make me dare to try to connect with them would be a year's worth of therapy on their part. I need solid boundaries in my relationships and it takes two people to make those.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:39 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:39 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm really sorry for what you went through and agree that it sounds like sexual assault. It's unclear to me in what you wrote if you met up intending to just get closure or to try for a reconciliation, but regardless you didn't ask for or deserve to be assaulted. It was a mistake to meet up with the ex, but what happened next wasn't your fault.
But at this point, with the other person, I don't think there's anything you can or should do aside from giving them space and seeing if they reach out at some point down the road. And meanwhile, regardless of if they ever reach out or not, you should continue with your therapy and self-work.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:58 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
But at this point, with the other person, I don't think there's anything you can or should do aside from giving them space and seeing if they reach out at some point down the road. And meanwhile, regardless of if they ever reach out or not, you should continue with your therapy and self-work.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:58 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's OK to be a romantic; I am too, and "having intense feelings" and "being very serious" was step one of a relationship for me. There are people who will not only tolerate, but accept that part of you while keeping your best interests at heart. Your romanticism is not to blame for the situation at hand, and definitely not for your ex's assault.
From your previous questions I can tell you experience a lot of anxiety, which leads you to ask existential questions ("are we forever? what does forever mean?"). Look into medication if you haven't already, and consider a therapy that specifically targets anxiety, like CBT. It makes a big difference to be able to manage those thoughts.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:35 PM on May 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
From your previous questions I can tell you experience a lot of anxiety, which leads you to ask existential questions ("are we forever? what does forever mean?"). Look into medication if you haven't already, and consider a therapy that specifically targets anxiety, like CBT. It makes a big difference to be able to manage those thoughts.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:35 PM on May 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Hello Friend. I feel people have covered therapy as a great avenue to explore. I want to bring up another avenue: do you have healthy friendships? A healthy friendship is a reciprocal relationship where you feel safe with another person and they feel safe with you. You trust them to respect your boundaries and you respect theirs. You have fun together and also want what’s best for one another, even if that sometimes means having less fun (like supporting a friend non-judgmental through stopping drinking if that’s what they want, for example). Do you have five people in your life like that? Some can be family, but not all. If you don’t, focus on friendships for the next few years. It’s an old saying that you can only love someone else when you love yourself. I think building stable friendships is a path towards loving yourself.
posted by CMcG at 3:38 PM on May 8, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by CMcG at 3:38 PM on May 8, 2023 [11 favorites]
You asked what would we do and also if there is anything else you can do for a second chance with this new person. You already left a voice note and I assume you sent texts before that. That's all you can do. The ball is in their court. You have to wait.
Also, if you texted them about your ex, that is showing that you aren't truly ready to move on.
Have you discussed attachment styles with your therapist? With an anxious attachment you think you can control how the other person responds by saying the exact correct thing. That's not how it works. You can't beat yourself up over it.
Also yeah your ex sexually assaulted you. Please talk with your therapist. I'm sorry that happened to you. You deserve love and care.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 3:41 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, if you texted them about your ex, that is showing that you aren't truly ready to move on.
Have you discussed attachment styles with your therapist? With an anxious attachment you think you can control how the other person responds by saying the exact correct thing. That's not how it works. You can't beat yourself up over it.
Also yeah your ex sexually assaulted you. Please talk with your therapist. I'm sorry that happened to you. You deserve love and care.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 3:41 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
You chose two different words to describe your meet-up with the ex:
closure - a final talk/meeting so that you can leave the past in the past and move on with your life
reconcile - to at least become friends again, maybe even more
I noticed, too, that to one-week-guy you said you needed "closure," but to your ex you said you wanted to "reconcile." After you met up, you started using other terms like "broke it off" and "didn't work out" to make it seem like you were still trying to have a romantic relationship with the ex.
So which is it? Did you want to get closure and move on, or did you want to get back together?
And by the way, setting aside the question of whether the ex was good for you or not, if you did want to get back together with him, then you can and should own that decision. Be honest with the one-week-guy and yourself that that's what you were hoping for.
And on the flip side, let's say all you really wanted was closure, no intention to get back together when you organized the meet-up. Being intimate post-breakup, whether consensual or not, does not automatically put you back into a relationship with that person. The only thing that can restart the relationship is if you both agree to do so, and I don't think you ever did! So there was nothing to break off there, and no "it didn't work out" either as there was no relationship to work out.
Maybe this is me just being pedantic, but I thought it curious that both terms were used in your Ask. Therapy, and dealing with the assault have already been covered. As for what would I do, I would try to get straight with my intentions before moving forward with my personal relationships.
posted by tinydancer at 3:51 PM on May 8, 2023 [8 favorites]
closure - a final talk/meeting so that you can leave the past in the past and move on with your life
reconcile - to at least become friends again, maybe even more
I noticed, too, that to one-week-guy you said you needed "closure," but to your ex you said you wanted to "reconcile." After you met up, you started using other terms like "broke it off" and "didn't work out" to make it seem like you were still trying to have a romantic relationship with the ex.
So which is it? Did you want to get closure and move on, or did you want to get back together?
And by the way, setting aside the question of whether the ex was good for you or not, if you did want to get back together with him, then you can and should own that decision. Be honest with the one-week-guy and yourself that that's what you were hoping for.
And on the flip side, let's say all you really wanted was closure, no intention to get back together when you organized the meet-up. Being intimate post-breakup, whether consensual or not, does not automatically put you back into a relationship with that person. The only thing that can restart the relationship is if you both agree to do so, and I don't think you ever did! So there was nothing to break off there, and no "it didn't work out" either as there was no relationship to work out.
Maybe this is me just being pedantic, but I thought it curious that both terms were used in your Ask. Therapy, and dealing with the assault have already been covered. As for what would I do, I would try to get straight with my intentions before moving forward with my personal relationships.
posted by tinydancer at 3:51 PM on May 8, 2023 [8 favorites]
Yes, your ex took advantage of you and assaulted you and that’s entirely not ok. Forgive yourself for meeting up with him in the hopes of reconciliation—it may have been wiser to just move on but we are all human and sometimes messy and we crave closure when we have been hurt. What I can’t fathom reading your question is why on earth you dumped all of this on a guy you’ve been dating one week. He has nothing to do with it. You are not exclusive and you owe him nothing at this point. If you want to meet up with an ex or fuck a guy in a bar or make out with a girl or do whatever your heart desires you are free to do so without saying a word to him.
This man is a stranger, and rushing into it in this manner is only going to cause you to repeat this pattern you have of rushing into relationships with people who are toxic. The fact that the feelings are so intense already raises concerns for me that he may be moving way too fast as well or even love bombing you. Apologizing profusely and sending voice memos and everything else you’ve been doing with this man is incredibly over the top and wildly unnecessary.
Take a huge step back and forgive yourself and cut off the ex and and go to therapy. Life isn’t supposed to be this hard.
posted by Amy93 at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
This man is a stranger, and rushing into it in this manner is only going to cause you to repeat this pattern you have of rushing into relationships with people who are toxic. The fact that the feelings are so intense already raises concerns for me that he may be moving way too fast as well or even love bombing you. Apologizing profusely and sending voice memos and everything else you’ve been doing with this man is incredibly over the top and wildly unnecessary.
Take a huge step back and forgive yourself and cut off the ex and and go to therapy. Life isn’t supposed to be this hard.
posted by Amy93 at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the honest responses. It was difficult to decide whether to post this question, based on my Ask history. I'm embarrassed by some of those questions, and that made me feel vulnerable in posting this one. Yes, I do have a support system of friends and family. My attachment style is Secure based on assessments (though Anxious is a close second).
I've learned and accepted that I'm a hopeless romantic. Thank you, wandering zinnia, for the assurance that it's possible to be one, and still receive love the way you want to be loved. That truly helps. I have a lot of love to give; it's just unfortunate that I've been meeting people who want to take more than give. This new person was different. It felt like we were mutually investing. We both wanted to let things progress naturally and at a slower pace. He accepted my invitation for the road trip. He could have chosen not to, but it was clear we were both connecting with each other in the same way.
I don't see the dating situation with the new person as a relationship. We were seeing each other. I just don't seem to identify with Western modern dating expectations. If I've gone on a date with someone and we both decide to see each other again, I will only be dating that person. I love sex, but I would feel wrong having sex with other people on the side at the same time (unless we've both agreed on that for whatever reason). If I like someone enough to go on a second date, then for me, that's where the investment begins. Having sex with others while doing this doesn't seem committed to getting to know that one person. It makes them seem like just an option. I did ask him on our second date- out of curiosity- if he was talking to anyone else (he wasn't); it wouldn't have bothered me if he was, but I do think it's respectful to let the other person know if this is the case.
I want to ask, though, because in my previous questions, some people were suggesting to continue dating, but to date multiple people and not seriously. They suggested this as a way to continue figuring out my tolerances and enforcing positive boundaries while in therapy. But here, people are suggesting to stick strictly to therapy, and not date at all. Isn't this a case where dating other people is literally the only way to work on dating people?
posted by Jangatroo at 4:39 PM on May 8, 2023
I've learned and accepted that I'm a hopeless romantic. Thank you, wandering zinnia, for the assurance that it's possible to be one, and still receive love the way you want to be loved. That truly helps. I have a lot of love to give; it's just unfortunate that I've been meeting people who want to take more than give. This new person was different. It felt like we were mutually investing. We both wanted to let things progress naturally and at a slower pace. He accepted my invitation for the road trip. He could have chosen not to, but it was clear we were both connecting with each other in the same way.
I don't see the dating situation with the new person as a relationship. We were seeing each other. I just don't seem to identify with Western modern dating expectations. If I've gone on a date with someone and we both decide to see each other again, I will only be dating that person. I love sex, but I would feel wrong having sex with other people on the side at the same time (unless we've both agreed on that for whatever reason). If I like someone enough to go on a second date, then for me, that's where the investment begins. Having sex with others while doing this doesn't seem committed to getting to know that one person. It makes them seem like just an option. I did ask him on our second date- out of curiosity- if he was talking to anyone else (he wasn't); it wouldn't have bothered me if he was, but I do think it's respectful to let the other person know if this is the case.
I want to ask, though, because in my previous questions, some people were suggesting to continue dating, but to date multiple people and not seriously. They suggested this as a way to continue figuring out my tolerances and enforcing positive boundaries while in therapy. But here, people are suggesting to stick strictly to therapy, and not date at all. Isn't this a case where dating other people is literally the only way to work on dating people?
posted by Jangatroo at 4:39 PM on May 8, 2023
Best answer: First of all, it sounds like you've broken things off with the mid-50s guy, and that's fantastic. Well done, seriously.
About this current situation: one week, and one weekend, isn't enough time to know someone. Honestly, one month isn't enough time to know someone either. It's okay to sleep with someone on a second date, or a first date, or whenever you want -- but only if you're okay with it not working out at that point, if you're okay with casual sex.
Also...
He said he wanted to take things slow, and that he previously would invest himself in someone too quickly, so wanted to be sure to be more cautious. I told him the same.
If you want to go slow, then you need to go slow. This is not slow:
I was already planning a road trip by myself to another part of the state, and invited him to join after we had two wonderful dates before that. We had an incredible weekend together, and bonded emotionally, mentally, and physically.
Two dates and then a weekend away together is pretty fast! I'm not saying it's objectively bad, but it does seem like you have the same tendency as him, to invest in someone too quickly. Maybe this mini-rupture gave him some time to stop and reflect and realize he was repeating the pattern.
If you truly want to take it slow, then continue dating other people while you get to know someone. Don't make a lot of big decisions and escalate so quickly. Fill your time with friends and activities and don't spend quite so much time with them right away.
For right now, here's what to do: block the ex and remove him from all your contact info. You have no reason to be in touch with him again. For the new guy: give him some time. It sounds like you've made your interest clear. The ball is in his court.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:44 PM on May 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
About this current situation: one week, and one weekend, isn't enough time to know someone. Honestly, one month isn't enough time to know someone either. It's okay to sleep with someone on a second date, or a first date, or whenever you want -- but only if you're okay with it not working out at that point, if you're okay with casual sex.
Also...
He said he wanted to take things slow, and that he previously would invest himself in someone too quickly, so wanted to be sure to be more cautious. I told him the same.
If you want to go slow, then you need to go slow. This is not slow:
I was already planning a road trip by myself to another part of the state, and invited him to join after we had two wonderful dates before that. We had an incredible weekend together, and bonded emotionally, mentally, and physically.
Two dates and then a weekend away together is pretty fast! I'm not saying it's objectively bad, but it does seem like you have the same tendency as him, to invest in someone too quickly. Maybe this mini-rupture gave him some time to stop and reflect and realize he was repeating the pattern.
If you truly want to take it slow, then continue dating other people while you get to know someone. Don't make a lot of big decisions and escalate so quickly. Fill your time with friends and activities and don't spend quite so much time with them right away.
For right now, here's what to do: block the ex and remove him from all your contact info. You have no reason to be in touch with him again. For the new guy: give him some time. It sounds like you've made your interest clear. The ball is in his court.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:44 PM on May 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
We both wanted to let things progress naturally and at a slower pace.
But...from your account you had two dates + a road trip in the first week, and then you basically put a whack of your ex drama (need your therapist's help because it's toxic) on him as if he were a boyfriend - after a week!!! - and you've referred to a bond you forged, again, in one. week. And now you are obsessing about whether he is going to answer you. That is not romantic, that is obsessive.
When I met my now-husband, I had some of those feelings right away. But I did not act on them and I did not expect him to be responsive and I did not tell him my ex was trying to date my sister (although he was.) We've been married a long long time, but there was no rush because it was solid. Not only that but - I was ready to be just fine if it wasn't.
The way you treated this encounter (from what you've posted) is the opposite of solid. Where are you in all this? When are you okay just being by yourself for a few days or weeks or months while you go slow?
Isn't this a case where dating other people is literally the only way to work on dating people?
From this post, my takeaway is that you met someone who was nice and decent and wanted you to go slow and you pushed the boundaries of that to the point that he's had to throw up some barriers. So...I don't think you should keep doing that. Wait on him. Don't go rushing into some other date. Don't go looking for closures with exes. Get comfortable with yourself.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:46 PM on May 8, 2023 [17 favorites]
But...from your account you had two dates + a road trip in the first week, and then you basically put a whack of your ex drama (need your therapist's help because it's toxic) on him as if he were a boyfriend - after a week!!! - and you've referred to a bond you forged, again, in one. week. And now you are obsessing about whether he is going to answer you. That is not romantic, that is obsessive.
When I met my now-husband, I had some of those feelings right away. But I did not act on them and I did not expect him to be responsive and I did not tell him my ex was trying to date my sister (although he was.) We've been married a long long time, but there was no rush because it was solid. Not only that but - I was ready to be just fine if it wasn't.
The way you treated this encounter (from what you've posted) is the opposite of solid. Where are you in all this? When are you okay just being by yourself for a few days or weeks or months while you go slow?
Isn't this a case where dating other people is literally the only way to work on dating people?
From this post, my takeaway is that you met someone who was nice and decent and wanted you to go slow and you pushed the boundaries of that to the point that he's had to throw up some barriers. So...I don't think you should keep doing that. Wait on him. Don't go rushing into some other date. Don't go looking for closures with exes. Get comfortable with yourself.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:46 PM on May 8, 2023 [17 favorites]
I wrote my previous response before I saw your follow-up. There are a lot of people who think that you have to take a break from dating to "work on yourself." I think it's okay to date while you are working on yourself, but if you find yourself getting too caught up in things too quickly, then you also have to be honest with yourself and maybe not date if you always fall hard and fast.
Also, it's okay not to have sex with multiple people, and it's good to communicate that. But it does sound like you're asking for a pretty big commitment on date number two, and again, that's not moving slow.
Not every "western" person dates multiple people at the same time. Some people date as it seems like you would like to. But the advice to keep going on dates with new people while you are getting to know someone is pretty common for folks who get attached quickly, which is what seems like is happening with you.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:48 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, it's okay not to have sex with multiple people, and it's good to communicate that. But it does sound like you're asking for a pretty big commitment on date number two, and again, that's not moving slow.
Not every "western" person dates multiple people at the same time. Some people date as it seems like you would like to. But the advice to keep going on dates with new people while you are getting to know someone is pretty common for folks who get attached quickly, which is what seems like is happening with you.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:48 PM on May 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
It might be worth thinking through this: what does going slow look like? Literally, how often would you see the person, text the person, talk on the phone? How would you feel while this is happening? How are you spending the rest of your time? Do you really want to take it slow, or do you feel like you are supposed to want to take it slow? Did you want to take it slow with the new person, or did you say that because he wanted to take it slow, and you wanted to spend time with him?
This is something I've thought about a lot, and I know what going slow looks like for me. It might be worth spending some time thinking about and visualizing how that might go, if it would or could feel good.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:02 PM on May 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is something I've thought about a lot, and I know what going slow looks like for me. It might be worth spending some time thinking about and visualizing how that might go, if it would or could feel good.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:02 PM on May 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Sorry, I completely forgot to add this bit earlier. I dropped off the new person at his house on Sunday evening when we got back into town. He asked me to text him when I got home, and I did. He said it was a wonderful weekend because of me, and can't wait to see me again. Clear interest. The next day (Monday), I asked him if he wanted to talk on the phone that day just to say hello. He said he'd call me after work. Never did. I messaged him in the evening to ask if he was going to call, and he said he was just wrapping up at the gym. Then he still didn't call, and the next morning (Tuesday), he apologized and said some family friends were over late. He said he would definitely call me that day after work. Again, he didn't. But I didn't follow-up that time and ask if he was going to.
On Monday night (same night that the new person didn't call when he first said he would), I saw that my ex had reached out to me. On Tuesday when the new person still hadn't called me, I had made plans with my ex to meet and talk. I figured, "Well, obviously this new person isn't as interested as I thought, so maybe I should just meet and talk with the ex and get that closure I was seeking."
When I messaged the new person on Wednesday morning saying that I wanted to try reconciling with my ex, but that I was fairly certain he was toxic and I needed my therapist's advice on how to get out, I did mention that "when you didn't call me twice when you said you would, I felt unimportant and confused." I told him I thought he was no longer interested in getting to know me, and because of that, agreed to meet with the ex. In other words, I wouldn't have met with the ex if the new person had shown more interest, because it would've been clear and there would've been no question. He sincerely apologized and said that committing to the things he says he's going to do, is something he needs to work on in himself. He said he still wants to get to know me, though, and to let him know if I want the same. I told him I did, and no response since.
posted by Jangatroo at 5:04 PM on May 8, 2023
On Monday night (same night that the new person didn't call when he first said he would), I saw that my ex had reached out to me. On Tuesday when the new person still hadn't called me, I had made plans with my ex to meet and talk. I figured, "Well, obviously this new person isn't as interested as I thought, so maybe I should just meet and talk with the ex and get that closure I was seeking."
When I messaged the new person on Wednesday morning saying that I wanted to try reconciling with my ex, but that I was fairly certain he was toxic and I needed my therapist's advice on how to get out, I did mention that "when you didn't call me twice when you said you would, I felt unimportant and confused." I told him I thought he was no longer interested in getting to know me, and because of that, agreed to meet with the ex. In other words, I wouldn't have met with the ex if the new person had shown more interest, because it would've been clear and there would've been no question. He sincerely apologized and said that committing to the things he says he's going to do, is something he needs to work on in himself. He said he still wants to get to know me, though, and to let him know if I want the same. I told him I did, and no response since.
posted by Jangatroo at 5:04 PM on May 8, 2023
"when you didn't call me twice when you said you would, I felt unimportant and confused."
This is a great way to openly and plainly state your communication needs. Good job.
But:
I told him I thought he was no longer interested in getting to know me, and because of that, agreed to meet with the ex.
You may not have meant it as such, but this sounds extremely manipulative to me. If I heard this from anyone in the early stages of dating, it would be a non negotiable red flag and I would never speak to that person again.
posted by phunniemee at 5:13 PM on May 8, 2023 [49 favorites]
This is a great way to openly and plainly state your communication needs. Good job.
But:
I told him I thought he was no longer interested in getting to know me, and because of that, agreed to meet with the ex.
You may not have meant it as such, but this sounds extremely manipulative to me. If I heard this from anyone in the early stages of dating, it would be a non negotiable red flag and I would never speak to that person again.
posted by phunniemee at 5:13 PM on May 8, 2023 [49 favorites]
We had an incredible weekend together, and bonded emotionally, mentally, and physically. He said he wanted to take things slow, and that he previously would invest himself in someone too quickly, so wanted to be sure to be more cautious.
I am sorry if I am misinterpreting you, but what I think this means is the two dates you had with him are the only dates you were ever going to have. You didn't ruin anything by seeing the other guy you briefly dated; you didn't even ruin anything by telling this new near-stranger that you were seeing that other guy. it was undoubtedly weird for him, but I don't think it made much difference.
when someone "bonds physically" to you right after meeting you, which I take to mean the two of you slept together? or nearly? and then says they want to take things slow, right after moving so fast? and says they'll call you when you ask them to, but then doesn't? that is them backing out. vaguely and ungracefully, but unmistakably.
you barely met this new guy but you already established a pattern with him. you say "will you" & "do you" & he says Yeah yeah, sure sure, and then he won't, because he doesn't. that's clear.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:27 PM on May 8, 2023 [17 favorites]
I am sorry if I am misinterpreting you, but what I think this means is the two dates you had with him are the only dates you were ever going to have. You didn't ruin anything by seeing the other guy you briefly dated; you didn't even ruin anything by telling this new near-stranger that you were seeing that other guy. it was undoubtedly weird for him, but I don't think it made much difference.
when someone "bonds physically" to you right after meeting you, which I take to mean the two of you slept together? or nearly? and then says they want to take things slow, right after moving so fast? and says they'll call you when you ask them to, but then doesn't? that is them backing out. vaguely and ungracefully, but unmistakably.
you barely met this new guy but you already established a pattern with him. you say "will you" & "do you" & he says Yeah yeah, sure sure, and then he won't, because he doesn't. that's clear.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:27 PM on May 8, 2023 [17 favorites]
Multiple dates and a road trip followed by daily requests for phone calls in the span of a week or so sounds like way too much for two people that are purportedly taking it slow! And while it's not uncommon to want to focus on dating one person at a time, going all in on someone who is essentially a stranger to you is outside the norm of many cultures. You wouldn't invest your life savings in a company without doing some research, right? The reason why you're getting so much advice to take a break from dating is that you just went through a traumatic event but instead of asking about that you're trying to figure out how to get a different person back. This isn't a problem you can solve with more dating. Be kind to yourself and take the time to focus on healing and reflection.
As to your original question, you can't make someone give you a second chance because you can't control other people. In many cases the more you do to win them over the more you push them away. Maybe he's busy, maybe he just said he wanted to keep talking just to be polite, maybe he meant it but changed his mind. At the end of the day it's out of your hands.
posted by fox problems at 7:26 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
As to your original question, you can't make someone give you a second chance because you can't control other people. In many cases the more you do to win them over the more you push them away. Maybe he's busy, maybe he just said he wanted to keep talking just to be polite, maybe he meant it but changed his mind. At the end of the day it's out of your hands.
posted by fox problems at 7:26 PM on May 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all so much. I really appreciate everyone's insight, and it's giving me a lot to reflect on.
phunniemee, can you please explain why it would sound manipulative and be such a strong red flag if someone you were dating early on said that to you? I didn't intend for it to be this way, and to me it just seemed honest and openly communicative. I obviously need to hear others' perspectives on these types of statements, because I seem to be missing the boat repeatedly when it comes to saying (or doing/investing) too much early on.
posted by Jangatroo at 7:41 PM on May 8, 2023
phunniemee, can you please explain why it would sound manipulative and be such a strong red flag if someone you were dating early on said that to you? I didn't intend for it to be this way, and to me it just seemed honest and openly communicative. I obviously need to hear others' perspectives on these types of statements, because I seem to be missing the boat repeatedly when it comes to saying (or doing/investing) too much early on.
posted by Jangatroo at 7:41 PM on May 8, 2023
At best, I don't have the time or interest to be party to someone's competitive ex games.
At worst, I won't entertain a relationship with someone who says "if you don't ____ then I'll [self destructive behavior]" when they don't get their way.
posted by phunniemee at 7:56 PM on May 8, 2023 [37 favorites]
At worst, I won't entertain a relationship with someone who says "if you don't ____ then I'll [self destructive behavior]" when they don't get their way.
posted by phunniemee at 7:56 PM on May 8, 2023 [37 favorites]
The last two updates make it seem like whom you are dating is not so important to you, so long as you are dating someone right now, in this moment.
This statement: "Well, obviously this new person isn't as interested as I thought, so maybe I should just meet and talk with the ex and get that closure I was seeking."
Why is New Guy's interest level the driving force in the decision to talk to the Ex or not? In my mind those are two totally separate things. If you need closure then you need closure for your own peace of mind and emotional well-being, regardless if you are dating someone or not.
And then this statement: I told him I thought he was no longer interested in getting to know me, and because of that, agreed to meet with the ex. In other words, I wouldn't have met with the ex if the new person had shown more interest, because it would've been clear and there would've been no question.
First of all, this sounds like a version of "You made me hit you." It's New Guy's (in)action that drove you to do something that you didn't really want to do, and it resulted in something bad, and so now it's New Guy's fault. Why, though? Why is meeting up with the ex a reaction to New Guy's flakiness, rather than a decision that you made and you can fully own? (The assault though... That is all on your Ex!)
Secondly, it also seems like some weird power move trying to prove your worth/attractiveness to New Guy... And/or maybe even to yourself?! "Oh, you think you can string me along for two days without calling? Hah! I'll show you! I have other options, I'm a hot commodity, I can get my Ex back in a snap! And you'll be so sorry when you could have been dating me but now it's your loss, because you wouldn't even give me a simple phone call."
If I were New Guy, I may even wonder if there is truly an Ex in the picture, or are you just cooking up some form of competition in order to push me into committing more and committing faster than I'm comfortable with. Because the above sounds like you snooze, you lose style of dating.
posted by tinydancer at 8:02 PM on May 8, 2023 [21 favorites]
This statement: "Well, obviously this new person isn't as interested as I thought, so maybe I should just meet and talk with the ex and get that closure I was seeking."
Why is New Guy's interest level the driving force in the decision to talk to the Ex or not? In my mind those are two totally separate things. If you need closure then you need closure for your own peace of mind and emotional well-being, regardless if you are dating someone or not.
And then this statement: I told him I thought he was no longer interested in getting to know me, and because of that, agreed to meet with the ex. In other words, I wouldn't have met with the ex if the new person had shown more interest, because it would've been clear and there would've been no question.
First of all, this sounds like a version of "You made me hit you." It's New Guy's (in)action that drove you to do something that you didn't really want to do, and it resulted in something bad, and so now it's New Guy's fault. Why, though? Why is meeting up with the ex a reaction to New Guy's flakiness, rather than a decision that you made and you can fully own? (The assault though... That is all on your Ex!)
Secondly, it also seems like some weird power move trying to prove your worth/attractiveness to New Guy... And/or maybe even to yourself?! "Oh, you think you can string me along for two days without calling? Hah! I'll show you! I have other options, I'm a hot commodity, I can get my Ex back in a snap! And you'll be so sorry when you could have been dating me but now it's your loss, because you wouldn't even give me a simple phone call."
If I were New Guy, I may even wonder if there is truly an Ex in the picture, or are you just cooking up some form of competition in order to push me into committing more and committing faster than I'm comfortable with. Because the above sounds like you snooze, you lose style of dating.
posted by tinydancer at 8:02 PM on May 8, 2023 [21 favorites]
How many hours were your two dates? One of the issues with obsessing and falling quickly for someone is the fantasy of them. Predicting how things would be just with the little positive interaction you had on two dates. You can't know someone on two dates. You don't see them when they get mad or how they deal with hard things. So the fact that you say you're already missing "him" is a red flag. Sure you can feel chemistry but if you want to work on having secure relationships, you need to think in your mind about casually meeting with someone a lot of times before you start obsessing about a future with them. That's why people suggest going on dates with multiple people so that you don't obsess about any one person. It helps give space to truly get to know new people. And pace your topics. The first few dates are seeing if you even enjoy each other's company or not and have some chemistry or not.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 8:35 PM on May 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 8:35 PM on May 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
I agree with Queen of Bythnia and Tiny Dancer.
One, that both men were interested in you sexually and when they didn’t feel like having sex with you, they fell out of contact. This is so damn usual for dating - from both men and women - that it’s just part of deal of dating people you don’t otherwise know in other contexts. I’ve written on here before somewhere that most people don’t know how to extricate themselves gently or maturely. Most people don’t know how to be extricated from gently or maturely. That is why ghosting happens, and it’s also why some people go to great lengths not to look like an asshole. In one case you’ve experienced, a guy who wanted sex with you and not much more, or who felt so suffocated by the few weeks you dated, he feigned deportation to get some space or to end the relationship. He shouldn’t have come back and pawed you into sex.
And two, I don’t think you’re acting honestly with either person you briefly dated. I mean honest as in being actually honest with yourself about why you are in contact with either person. You wanted attention from the guy you met a week ago after your previous bloke was a pawing, assaulty, booty-calling asshole. New Guy had a good time, but he was also clearly tiptoeing away from dating [what QoB said] in the gentlest way in his evasive texts. There was absolutely no need to text or call about your previous boyfriend. It was manipulative and my guess is you won’t hear from him again. No one wants to workshop someone’s ‘ex’ in the first few days of meeting someone new.
Sharing all that information about your ‘ex’ when you didn’t get a phone call is intense. People see intense like that and they try to tiptoe away, or they ghost or they come up with scenarios to get themselves away from the intensity.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:36 PM on May 8, 2023 [9 favorites]
One, that both men were interested in you sexually and when they didn’t feel like having sex with you, they fell out of contact. This is so damn usual for dating - from both men and women - that it’s just part of deal of dating people you don’t otherwise know in other contexts. I’ve written on here before somewhere that most people don’t know how to extricate themselves gently or maturely. Most people don’t know how to be extricated from gently or maturely. That is why ghosting happens, and it’s also why some people go to great lengths not to look like an asshole. In one case you’ve experienced, a guy who wanted sex with you and not much more, or who felt so suffocated by the few weeks you dated, he feigned deportation to get some space or to end the relationship. He shouldn’t have come back and pawed you into sex.
And two, I don’t think you’re acting honestly with either person you briefly dated. I mean honest as in being actually honest with yourself about why you are in contact with either person. You wanted attention from the guy you met a week ago after your previous bloke was a pawing, assaulty, booty-calling asshole. New Guy had a good time, but he was also clearly tiptoeing away from dating [what QoB said] in the gentlest way in his evasive texts. There was absolutely no need to text or call about your previous boyfriend. It was manipulative and my guess is you won’t hear from him again. No one wants to workshop someone’s ‘ex’ in the first few days of meeting someone new.
Sharing all that information about your ‘ex’ when you didn’t get a phone call is intense. People see intense like that and they try to tiptoe away, or they ghost or they come up with scenarios to get themselves away from the intensity.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:36 PM on May 8, 2023 [9 favorites]
One of the reasons I suggest you take a break from dating is that you seem to be engaging in some unsafe/risky behaviors around dating. Going on a road trip with someone you've known for a few days is potentially dangerous. If one of my friends told me she was going on a road trip with some random guy she met a few days ago, I would be very concerned, and I'm absolutely not the kind of person who sees serial killers everywhere or anything.
You set yourself up for being in an enclosed space, far away from both of your homes, for a prolonged period of time, with someone you barely know, and not even in a structured rideshare kind of situation. If you had a shared or overlapping social circle, it'd be one thing, but you met this guy on an app, and after two dates you were inviting him along on a multi-day road trip. That's the kind of impulsive behavior I'd expect out of college students, not a 30-something.
Even if he's an okay guy, there are so many mundane ways that road trip could have gone wrong for both of you, and it put you both in an uncomfortable position at best and an actively unsafe one at worst. What if you found out some deal breaker thing about him during the road trip? Would you have just left him on the side of the road in a random town? What if he'd made you feel unsafe? Did you have an exit strategy or safety plan here at all? If you didn't, think very hard about why you're letting your desire to be in a relationship so regularly override all your common sense (i.e., ignoring red flags with the ex, this road trip with a near-stranger).
There's nothing wrong with being a romantic, and there's not even anything wrong with falling for someone quickly. But just because you fall for someone quickly doesn't mean that you need to dial things up to 11 on the relationship scale ASAP, and it doesn't mean you should abandon keeping yourself both emotionally and physically safe. You can still take things slow, you can still get to know them and not demand and expect Big Serious Relationship stuff after a few weeks.
posted by yasaman at 9:05 PM on May 8, 2023 [20 favorites]
You set yourself up for being in an enclosed space, far away from both of your homes, for a prolonged period of time, with someone you barely know, and not even in a structured rideshare kind of situation. If you had a shared or overlapping social circle, it'd be one thing, but you met this guy on an app, and after two dates you were inviting him along on a multi-day road trip. That's the kind of impulsive behavior I'd expect out of college students, not a 30-something.
Even if he's an okay guy, there are so many mundane ways that road trip could have gone wrong for both of you, and it put you both in an uncomfortable position at best and an actively unsafe one at worst. What if you found out some deal breaker thing about him during the road trip? Would you have just left him on the side of the road in a random town? What if he'd made you feel unsafe? Did you have an exit strategy or safety plan here at all? If you didn't, think very hard about why you're letting your desire to be in a relationship so regularly override all your common sense (i.e., ignoring red flags with the ex, this road trip with a near-stranger).
There's nothing wrong with being a romantic, and there's not even anything wrong with falling for someone quickly. But just because you fall for someone quickly doesn't mean that you need to dial things up to 11 on the relationship scale ASAP, and it doesn't mean you should abandon keeping yourself both emotionally and physically safe. You can still take things slow, you can still get to know them and not demand and expect Big Serious Relationship stuff after a few weeks.
posted by yasaman at 9:05 PM on May 8, 2023 [20 favorites]
Best answer: Thank you, wandering zinnia, for the assurance that it's possible to be one, and still receive love the way you want to be loved. That truly helps. I have a lot of love to give; it's just unfortunate that I've been meeting people who want to take more than give. This new person was different.
There is something more I want to add - you really, really need to learn to self-soothe. What stands out to me about your previous questions is how much you fret about unimportant/philosophical details and keep yourself in situations that are terrible for you. You need to be able to separate your emotions from reality, to tell yourself "I'll wait for one-week guy to respond; I'll be OK whether or not he does".
Regardless of whether casual relationships or serious/romantic relationships are your thing, self-soothing is a key skill for healthy connections. You may feel one-week guy is different and he's going to be The One, but you've got to be able to keep that in check and understand he needs to prove his trustworthiness in actions before being invited on a road trip.
It sounds like there's a lot of trauma in your past (abusive relationships) and you would benefit from addressing that directly through therapy, because it's the root of the anxiety you struggle with as well as the reason you gravitate towards people who abuse you, like the ex who assaulted you. (PS. Block him!) Take time to stabilise yourself before dating more people or the same cycle is only going to repeat.
I'm really sorry about everything you've gone through, I really am, and wish you the best of luck in healing.
posted by wandering zinnia at 5:44 AM on May 9, 2023 [13 favorites]
There is something more I want to add - you really, really need to learn to self-soothe. What stands out to me about your previous questions is how much you fret about unimportant/philosophical details and keep yourself in situations that are terrible for you. You need to be able to separate your emotions from reality, to tell yourself "I'll wait for one-week guy to respond; I'll be OK whether or not he does".
Regardless of whether casual relationships or serious/romantic relationships are your thing, self-soothing is a key skill for healthy connections. You may feel one-week guy is different and he's going to be The One, but you've got to be able to keep that in check and understand he needs to prove his trustworthiness in actions before being invited on a road trip.
It sounds like there's a lot of trauma in your past (abusive relationships) and you would benefit from addressing that directly through therapy, because it's the root of the anxiety you struggle with as well as the reason you gravitate towards people who abuse you, like the ex who assaulted you. (PS. Block him!) Take time to stabilise yourself before dating more people or the same cycle is only going to repeat.
I'm really sorry about everything you've gone through, I really am, and wish you the best of luck in healing.
posted by wandering zinnia at 5:44 AM on May 9, 2023 [13 favorites]
Mod note: Comment removed. OP, Ask Metafilter is for solving specific questions and not so much for back and forth conversation, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:22 AM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:22 AM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: On Monday night (same night that the new person didn't call when he first said he would), I saw that my ex had reached out to me. On Tuesday when the new person still hadn't called me, I had made plans with my ex to meet and talk. I figured, "Well, obviously this new person isn't as interested as I thought, so maybe I should just meet and talk with the ex and get that closure I was seeking."
It's very honest of you to share your thinking here. I've definitely been in that situation -- I'm not getting the attention I want from someone, and someone else offers it up, or I seek it out from someone else, and that seems to temporarily make me forget what I'm not getting from the other person. But this isn't great relationship or emotional behavior. In cases where you are wanting attention from someone and not getting it, a different and (I think) healthier response might be something like this:
1. Sitting with this discomfort - it's such an important thing to learn that feeling bad doesn't require you to take action.
2. Doing some self-soothing - related to the above. Acknowledge to yourself that you don't feel great, and think about how you might feel even a tiny bit better, like through exercise or journaling or watching a funny movie. Or even just leave your phone at home and go for a walk. Journaling can be a great way to be honest with yourself, like acknowledging that you are tempted to reach out to the ex, or how sad you are feeling.
3. Reaching out to a friend or family member, not necessarily to talk about it all, but for some connection and emotional affection. They key thing is that you are seeking human connection with someone where it's an established, secure relationship. (I know some people who have a deal with friends that goes something like, "Whenever you want to text your ex, text me instead.")
You said you ignored some red flags with the one-month ex. I also want to say you have some misalignments with the new guy, too. You all had two dates in a week and then a weekend away, and he expressed a desire to take it slow. Then he wasn't available for phone calls two days in a row when he said he would be, and he didn't communicate well about that. I'm guessing two things are going on:
1. He has a tendency to move too fast and realized you all were escalating quickly in terms of the amount of contact you were having, and he was taking a tiny bit of space to think through it all and be with his friends. When you continued to ask for contact, he pulled back a bit and didn't communicate well about that. He may be concerned he's repeating the same pattern as before.
2. You want to move pretty quickly, and when he pulled back a bit, you felt rejected and had an attachment crisis. You reconnected with your ex in a bid for attention from the new guy.
One date is way too soon to make an evaluation of someone's character and compatibility. That zing of connection doesn't always mean your values are well-aligned, that you want the same thing. Sometimes, when someone is exciting, it's not because they're a good match, but because they're pinging our attachment system. And sometimes when we reach out to an ex, it's to avoid self-soothing, and it's a play for attention from someone else.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:58 AM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's very honest of you to share your thinking here. I've definitely been in that situation -- I'm not getting the attention I want from someone, and someone else offers it up, or I seek it out from someone else, and that seems to temporarily make me forget what I'm not getting from the other person. But this isn't great relationship or emotional behavior. In cases where you are wanting attention from someone and not getting it, a different and (I think) healthier response might be something like this:
1. Sitting with this discomfort - it's such an important thing to learn that feeling bad doesn't require you to take action.
2. Doing some self-soothing - related to the above. Acknowledge to yourself that you don't feel great, and think about how you might feel even a tiny bit better, like through exercise or journaling or watching a funny movie. Or even just leave your phone at home and go for a walk. Journaling can be a great way to be honest with yourself, like acknowledging that you are tempted to reach out to the ex, or how sad you are feeling.
3. Reaching out to a friend or family member, not necessarily to talk about it all, but for some connection and emotional affection. They key thing is that you are seeking human connection with someone where it's an established, secure relationship. (I know some people who have a deal with friends that goes something like, "Whenever you want to text your ex, text me instead.")
You said you ignored some red flags with the one-month ex. I also want to say you have some misalignments with the new guy, too. You all had two dates in a week and then a weekend away, and he expressed a desire to take it slow. Then he wasn't available for phone calls two days in a row when he said he would be, and he didn't communicate well about that. I'm guessing two things are going on:
1. He has a tendency to move too fast and realized you all were escalating quickly in terms of the amount of contact you were having, and he was taking a tiny bit of space to think through it all and be with his friends. When you continued to ask for contact, he pulled back a bit and didn't communicate well about that. He may be concerned he's repeating the same pattern as before.
2. You want to move pretty quickly, and when he pulled back a bit, you felt rejected and had an attachment crisis. You reconnected with your ex in a bid for attention from the new guy.
One date is way too soon to make an evaluation of someone's character and compatibility. That zing of connection doesn't always mean your values are well-aligned, that you want the same thing. Sometimes, when someone is exciting, it's not because they're a good match, but because they're pinging our attachment system. And sometimes when we reach out to an ex, it's to avoid self-soothing, and it's a play for attention from someone else.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:58 AM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
on a Tuesday, saying, "I already have plans tonight, but perhaps on Friday?" seems far enough out to indicate lack of interest
In the nicest way possible, YES, this is an unreasonable expectation when dating someone, ESPECIALLY if you’re dating someone new. Not everyone can clear their schedule to make time to see you on a whim, and frankly they shouldn’t have to. It is so normal and healthy to continue to value your family and friends and hobbies when dating. A new relationship should not take priority over any of that, especially after one date. Frankly, I would argue that it’s unreasonable to be upset about this in an established relationship. This mindset will scare away the healthy men with secure attachments. The ones who are left are not ones you want to date.
You know that someone is still interested when they say this because they have you an alternate date, full stop. I think it’s healthy and normal to only see someone once or twice a week while you’re still getting to know each other, without constant communication in between. I like daily contact, but BRIEF.
Everyone has their own preferences. You may need more contact than me, and that’s okay, but you’re not going to constantly talk and be together with someone after just a couple of dates in a healthy new relationship, and you have to learn to be comfortable with that if you really want to find someone.
I feel for you. Being single is hard and online dating is trash. I know you have a therapist—I wonder if you would benefit from a dating coach as well, to help learn about established norms in dating and catch flags early on? You may also consider exploring more hobbies or volunteer work to stay busy and prevent yourself from fixating on the men you’re dating.
Good luck!
posted by Amy93 at 1:26 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
In the nicest way possible, YES, this is an unreasonable expectation when dating someone, ESPECIALLY if you’re dating someone new. Not everyone can clear their schedule to make time to see you on a whim, and frankly they shouldn’t have to. It is so normal and healthy to continue to value your family and friends and hobbies when dating. A new relationship should not take priority over any of that, especially after one date. Frankly, I would argue that it’s unreasonable to be upset about this in an established relationship. This mindset will scare away the healthy men with secure attachments. The ones who are left are not ones you want to date.
You know that someone is still interested when they say this because they have you an alternate date, full stop. I think it’s healthy and normal to only see someone once or twice a week while you’re still getting to know each other, without constant communication in between. I like daily contact, but BRIEF.
Everyone has their own preferences. You may need more contact than me, and that’s okay, but you’re not going to constantly talk and be together with someone after just a couple of dates in a healthy new relationship, and you have to learn to be comfortable with that if you really want to find someone.
I feel for you. Being single is hard and online dating is trash. I know you have a therapist—I wonder if you would benefit from a dating coach as well, to help learn about established norms in dating and catch flags early on? You may also consider exploring more hobbies or volunteer work to stay busy and prevent yourself from fixating on the men you’re dating.
Good luck!
posted by Amy93 at 1:26 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
I’m sorry — am I understanding you right? You think that if someone asks you out on a Tuesday and you counteroffer with Friday, that suggests to them that you have a lack of interest because it’s four days later?
I don’t mean to be unkind, but you have a very, very unrealistic view of how healthy relationships generally proceed.
I’ll say it again: stop dating for now. Seriously, stop. Your questions aren’t relevant because you don’t need to figure out how to navigate any delicate balances in dating; what you need to figure out is why you don’t feel like you can be whole person by yourself without being attached to a man. Focus on your other interests, find ways to spend your time other than dating, and commit to working hard in therapy to learn that you’re worthy of existing without a man’s validation.
posted by holborne at 1:28 PM on May 9, 2023 [20 favorites]
I don’t mean to be unkind, but you have a very, very unrealistic view of how healthy relationships generally proceed.
I’ll say it again: stop dating for now. Seriously, stop. Your questions aren’t relevant because you don’t need to figure out how to navigate any delicate balances in dating; what you need to figure out is why you don’t feel like you can be whole person by yourself without being attached to a man. Focus on your other interests, find ways to spend your time other than dating, and commit to working hard in therapy to learn that you’re worthy of existing without a man’s validation.
posted by holborne at 1:28 PM on May 9, 2023 [20 favorites]
Best answer: Yes - your expectation about an appropriate timeline for two adults with full lives to begin getting to know each other is wildly off, and is going to lead you away from relationships with other adults who *do* know how to take things slowly and balance the elements of their lives appropriately. This would be be a great thing to explore in therapy, or talk through with your friends for a reality check, but not to explore by dating.
posted by Stacey at 1:31 PM on May 9, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 1:31 PM on May 9, 2023 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I’m really glad you came here for this reality check. I agree with the others that your expectations of availability are not in line with the schedule constraints of most adults, and that you may be unwittingly weeding out the most suitable people, the ones who make and keep commitments to others.
posted by eirias at 1:50 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by eirias at 1:50 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I want to continue encouraging them, and consistently make it clear in the early stages that I'm choosing them to spend time with.
but are you? choosing them, specifically and personally and individually, I mean? or do you feel the need to communicate that to them because being chosen is such a good and flattering feeling, and people often respond well to those who make them feel good and flattered?
this is difficult to explain because I am not suggesting game-playing or pretending not to like someone as much as you really do, when you're honestly sure that you do. but I think you would benefit from not trying so hard to make people feel so special to you so fast. don't work at it. to insightful men, it will ring false and they will pull away in discomfort at behavior that, however nice, cannot really be about them.
and the men who respond in kind to your sudden and interest interest are going to be either very pleased with themselves, at best, or predatory at worst. in between those extremes are probably a lot of guys who have trouble distinguishing performance and communication of emotions from feeling those actual emotions. these guys are no good for anybody. they are especially no good for you if you think you have some of that same difficulty.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:27 PM on May 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
but are you? choosing them, specifically and personally and individually, I mean? or do you feel the need to communicate that to them because being chosen is such a good and flattering feeling, and people often respond well to those who make them feel good and flattered?
this is difficult to explain because I am not suggesting game-playing or pretending not to like someone as much as you really do, when you're honestly sure that you do. but I think you would benefit from not trying so hard to make people feel so special to you so fast. don't work at it. to insightful men, it will ring false and they will pull away in discomfort at behavior that, however nice, cannot really be about them.
and the men who respond in kind to your sudden and interest interest are going to be either very pleased with themselves, at best, or predatory at worst. in between those extremes are probably a lot of guys who have trouble distinguishing performance and communication of emotions from feeling those actual emotions. these guys are no good for anybody. they are especially no good for you if you think you have some of that same difficulty.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:27 PM on May 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I have typed this out and deleted it a few times, but here goes: maybe what you need are some hard and fast rules. Here are some. Print them out and carry them with you, maybe. If these don't work, try brainstorming some that do work for you, then memorize them and stick to them.
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:33 PM on May 9, 2023 [22 favorites]
1) No sex until the third date. That means, third date on a different day, not one weekend where you never part.You are in your thirties but you seem to be holding on to expectations that, frankly, are better suited to someone in their teens or very early twenties. You need to get over this crazy fast OMG I am so in love with this person I just met yesterday stuff. It's not healthy on any level. The main thing to remember here is, you are moving way way WAY too fast and you need to slow it down. Also, yes, "I already have plans tonight, but perhaps on Friday?" seems far enough out to indicate lack of interest is straight up loony tunes. That's perfectly normal. In fact, it's sane. Don't go on same day dates with people you barely know. That indicates you have no life and no respect for yourself.
1A) If you went on one of those weekend long dates? That's a fling, not a relationship. A FLING. Maybe it can turn into a relationship later but it isn't one yet.
2) No, you don't go on same day "what are you doing tonight?" dates. That's not a date, that's a booty call.
3) You're not actually dating / in a relationship until you have been together for THREE MONTHS.
3A) Stop counting in weeks. Adults don't count in weeks. On a week you might go on ONE date. That would be normal. More than one date a week is not normal.
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:33 PM on May 9, 2023 [22 favorites]
Hello, I'm going to give you a helpful prompt that helps people who get lost in the "why" and the spiral of tortured overthinking:
Forget about the "why" (or what, or how, etc). The "why" doesn't matter. Searching for the "why" is what is keeping you going in circles. What really matters is: do you like how things are going for you right now? If not, what will you do next? In actions, not analysis.
posted by orbit-3 at 5:11 PM on May 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
Forget about the "why" (or what, or how, etc). The "why" doesn't matter. Searching for the "why" is what is keeping you going in circles. What really matters is: do you like how things are going for you right now? If not, what will you do next? In actions, not analysis.
posted by orbit-3 at 5:11 PM on May 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I obviously don't know you, and I am not trying to speculate on the reasons for this, but your reactions aren't a simple matter of being too young for your calendar age. they don't make sense to me for a teenager, either. when you summarize relationships there's this abyss of hidden reasoning between one sentence of yours and the next and I can't make it out at all. the why of it is totally obscured for me. I have more of a self-protective offense threshold than most people, I think, which carries its own problems, but you have none at all, it sounds like. which is dangerous.
for example, you say: a boyfriend of a few months who nearly abandoned me the next day after seeing how physically painful my first time was, and he didn't want to face that. and I expect the next line to be something along the lines of, "So I screamed at him that he was a selfish prick" -- immature, but appropriately immature, right? that's my idea of a 19-year-old's reaction. but instead, you say: I had to confront him to get him to stay. What? What?? why did you want him to stay after being awful in bed and awful after? why were you willing to stoop to that, how could it have felt good to be around him after that, wasn't it all spoiled? And this is the same bewilderment that your present-day relationship questions all raise in me.
I am not asking the above as real questions, the answers aren't really my business. and I'm not denying that this specific experience was a traumatic one that left a mark. but it didn't create in you this reflex where in response to a man being awful, you pull him close by any means possible instead of shoving him away, it sounds like you already had that. immaturity is sort of beside the point; you can be immature and date younger people and have fun drama-filled relationships, no big deal. this reflex to submit and be martyred and be close close close at all costs is the real problem, it is something different, and I think you are not having fun.
there doesn't have to be a concrete answer to why these reactions make sense to you, sometimes it's a trauma reaction but some people are just like that as a matter of temperament. I don't think you are setting out to hurt yourself. but it isn't good for you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:21 PM on May 9, 2023 [14 favorites]
for example, you say: a boyfriend of a few months who nearly abandoned me the next day after seeing how physically painful my first time was, and he didn't want to face that. and I expect the next line to be something along the lines of, "So I screamed at him that he was a selfish prick" -- immature, but appropriately immature, right? that's my idea of a 19-year-old's reaction. but instead, you say: I had to confront him to get him to stay. What? What?? why did you want him to stay after being awful in bed and awful after? why were you willing to stoop to that, how could it have felt good to be around him after that, wasn't it all spoiled? And this is the same bewilderment that your present-day relationship questions all raise in me.
I am not asking the above as real questions, the answers aren't really my business. and I'm not denying that this specific experience was a traumatic one that left a mark. but it didn't create in you this reflex where in response to a man being awful, you pull him close by any means possible instead of shoving him away, it sounds like you already had that. immaturity is sort of beside the point; you can be immature and date younger people and have fun drama-filled relationships, no big deal. this reflex to submit and be martyred and be close close close at all costs is the real problem, it is something different, and I think you are not having fun.
there doesn't have to be a concrete answer to why these reactions make sense to you, sometimes it's a trauma reaction but some people are just like that as a matter of temperament. I don't think you are setting out to hurt yourself. but it isn't good for you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:21 PM on May 9, 2023 [14 favorites]
Jangatroo, Mods have already deleted one of your comments and clearly re-stated the rules here that askMeFi is not for back and forth conversation. I am sure you saw that. Yet you have posted two sets of additional ’well yeah but what abouts’ and questions since then. You have a lot of relevant, kind, and actionable feedback here. What you’re doing here seems to be a pattern of disregarding clear communication to an objective of keeping others engaged. I think you should follow the site rules. If you cannot, take a step away from the keyboard and figure out why.
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:29 PM on May 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:29 PM on May 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I would also consider that perhaps you have a hard time reading social situations and understanding social norms. You also seem to have never actually dated--your first experiences were full-fledged relationships and now you need to navigate the scary and unfamiliar world of online dating, with all of its assumptions and unspoken rules. Of course you feel a little lost. There are all kinds of reason that some people struggle with reading and navigating certain situations, and I may be totally off base here, but if that does sound like something you've struggled with, learning explicit rules to follow instead of relying on yourself to get an accurate read of the situation and know how to proceed may make this all easier and safer for you. I say this all in the kindest way possible--I am neurodivergent and work with neurodivergent children and young adults, which means that myself and the kids I work with all need things to be a bit more, um, explicit, to say the least. There is nothing wrong with it. And I am not trying to diagnose you either or say you're neurodivergent--there are all kinds of reasons that people may have trouble understanding social norms, with neurodivergence being just one of them. Good luck either way.
posted by Amy93 at 5:31 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Amy93 at 5:31 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just another data point to possibly help you recalibrate your thinking: if I dated someone for four weeks, I would never call them an "ex". Ex what? They would be "oh that person I had a few dates with".
posted by donnagirl at 6:03 PM on May 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by donnagirl at 6:03 PM on May 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
Just another data point to possibly help you recalibrate your thinking: if I dated someone for four weeks, I would never call them an "ex". Ex what? They would be "oh that person I had a few dates with".
Even if it was an intense fling, where you spend those four weeks 24./7 together, they still aren't an "ex" -- that was a (hopefully very nice and fun) fling (or encounter, or whatever synonym you prefer).
posted by Dip Flash at 6:57 AM on May 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Even if it was an intense fling, where you spend those four weeks 24./7 together, they still aren't an "ex" -- that was a (hopefully very nice and fun) fling (or encounter, or whatever synonym you prefer).
posted by Dip Flash at 6:57 AM on May 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Mod note: More comments removed. Jangatroo, you were asked to stop using Ask Metafilter as a back and forth question/discussion. You've ignore that request in this thread. Continuing to do so may result in the loss of your posting privileges.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:19 AM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:19 AM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Juniper Toast at 12:12 PM on May 8, 2023 [9 favorites]