Considering taking a 14yo dog to a flat - is it too late?
April 28, 2023 10:02 AM   Subscribe

Family dog struggling with teeth, hips and cyst; I offered giving him home and vet treatment, especially as I work from home, my parents are extremely upset and offended.

Hi, when I was a teenager, my parents finally answered my pleads and let me buy a havanese dog. He was healthy most of the time, he became more of a grandfather's dog - however, to everyone except me and my brother, he was just a dog. I was the one taking him to trips, longer walks, that was concerned about his well being for instance when he got injured and felt awfully guilty for not being able to do anything about his aggression as the training was pointless, the dog changed as soon as he was near grandpa, he snapped at multiple family members when we were around him and grandpa - probably some sort of resource guarding.

A few years later I went to study abroad for 4 years and I naively agreed that the rest of my family members will take decent care of dog, meaning quality food, at least minimum walks and healthcare. They walked and fed him but when I came back, I discovered dog has teeth missing; he was around 9 at the time. They guaranteed that every time they had vaccine, vet said he was okay and he was just old. I did not know better, sadly. In any case my gut was telling me something is not cool here. But every time I asked for taking him for checkups regarding teeth, they thought it was pointless to spend money on "just a dog".

As soon as I got a job I offered to take him to my flat. They disagreed because he "was old and too attached to grandpa". I even begged my brother, offered to pay him monthly plus the vet bills to take care of a dog; he said there is no need to pay him, he will do it, but he also somehow relied on mother. I offered finding them a dog sitter, but my parents were offended, because it would give the impression as if they cant take care of their dog. I discovered that the dog was not vaccinated several years during my absence although this has improved when i started pressuring it. Mom was guaranteeing that the vet check showed that dog is in perfect condition, he did not seem in pain, only his teeth were missing.

About year and a half ago I got my own puppy and they were happily playing when I visited. Since then though, the old dog's health started severely declining; next time I saw him, he was obese, he could not chase my dog anymore etc. He lost weight eventually, but I was shocked seeing that a dog can barely walk on his hind legs, he is struggling severely and the stench from his mouth is unbearable. His stool is also soft. I asked once again nicely if I can take him, the answer is of course no and that there is not much to do because he is 14 and it would be too big of a shock to him. I asked grandpa about his permission, he said "eh, why would you waste money on a dog, his health will get better!" My parents are also on and on how that this dog is grandpa's friend and they will both die of sadness if I take him. Right now the dog is happy to see me and gladly cuddles with me, he is still attached; although he still spends most of the time with grandpa and follows him.

I faced quite a bit of a backlash because of how I "turned my blind eye" on him and that I am trying to torture the dog only to soothe my guilty conscious. But I feel stupid and full of regrets already and would only like to give the best to an old guy and to give him nice last years. It is not ideal as I am struggle with finances lately and am actively trying to fix it; I have my own dog and 2 rescue cats, but I am ready to go into debt/borrow and do my best.

When my mom found out I took a dog to the vet for vaccine - which she was already 8 months late for - and general checkup, she snapped at me of being mean and backstabbing to do this without her presence, yelled at me that the dog will stay here til he dies, he is just old and how dare I accuse them of neglecting him when she did everything that was needed. That she was taking care of the dog for 10 years and now I just started nagging like I give a damn about him. I clearly remember often asking about him, and plenty of times parents said: "all you care about is this dog, you don't even ask US first how we are doing".

I admit I did not preoccupy myself with it because he wanted to spend most of his time around granpa and thought he was doing okay and sadly does not miss me as much. However I still cared about him even though everyone said I abandoned him, I am very upset about struggling and slowly dying in pain. He is chipped to my name and I started thinking it might be worth burning the bridges just to take him behind their back and give him a nice last few years, even though they clearly see me as an impostor.

Any advice appreciated!
posted by Salicornia to Human Relations (15 answers total)
 
Your parents are fiends.

I would remind your parents that YOU are the one who bought the dog in the first place, so YOU should have final say on how to care for him. So you can present them with a choice:

a) The dog can stay with them, BUT they need to allow you to bring the dog to the vet for all vaccinations and regular checkups, or

b) the dog comes to live with you, so you can bring the dog to the vet for all vaccinations and regular checkups.

Make it about what's best for the dog- and what's best for the dog is regular health care. If they want to keep the dog with them so badly, then they no longer get to shame you for "spending money on him". If they continue to shame you for "spending money on him" then they clearly don't really care about the dog, so it's wouldn't be a problem for you to take him, right?

But phrase it that way - state that you are going to be bringing the dog for vet visits and vaccinations from now on, and they are NOT ALLOWED to say boo about that. Their only choice would be: are you getting the dog from their apartment each time, or are you going to bring the dog over to your place from now on?

And if they violate that rule about not hassling you for takign care of the dog, they have invalidated the agreement and you get the dog. Period. Because, again, you bought the dog in the first place with your own money and therefore it is your dog.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on April 28, 2023 [4 favorites]


People are not rational creatures. They do what they think is right, and that's based on how they were brought up and what they've done in the past. If they think you're seeing their actions as unethical they'll get angry to avoid facing that. This is human nature.
I've known a lot of people who think animals are not worth taking care of. People who were brought up with them take care of them. People who weren't very often think of them as furniture.
I've let other people care for my animals. Very often they did the absolute minimum and couldn't understand why someone would be upset about a pet.
You have the additional complication that your grandfather is attached to the dog, and will probably be unhappy without him.
That of course means it's in everyone's interest to keep the dog healthy.
There's probably not a good way to deal with this. I think the best you can do is visit your grandfather and take him and the dog for walks. If you can sneak the dog away to see a vet, do so and don't tell anyone.
Bear in mind that fourteen is very old for some dogs, so not all of this is probably your parents fault. A friend's chihuahua just died and seventeen, my brother's dog lasted to be nine.
This is not an uncommon situation. I'm sorry I don't have better advice.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 11:11 AM on April 28, 2023


FIRST of all. Thank you for caring about this dog, and making some efforts to do right by him. I have a Havanese and they are bright, intelligent and playful little critters. I am horrified and disgusted and angry about the uncaring treatment by your family.

That much said, if I think about all the dogs being horribly mistreated or neglected RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, I would never get out of bed. It's a fact of life. Some people don't think dogs have feelings or suffer. You could argue that there are plenty of human children being horribly mistreated and neglected right at this moment, and this is also true. People are fucking terrible.

I say stop asking permission and take this dog and bring him to the vet. Call around to your local vets, explain the situation of long neglect, tell them you don't have a lot of money to spend but want to make him comfortable, and ask what they can offer. Warning - teeth procedures for dogs can be very expensive.

but my parents were offended, because it would give the impression as if they cant take care of their dog
IT'S BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY CAN'T TAKE CARE OF THEIR DOG.

And yet. This is your family. Are you willing to risk their wrath? Only you can decide. He has had a difficult, painful life. That life may mercifully be over soon, and your relationship with these people will not. Please make sure these family members do not get more pets.

...I started thinking it might be worth burning the bridges just to take him behind their back and give him a nice last few years, even though they clearly see me as an impostor.

I vote for this option, if you can do it. Take him to the vet. And if your family treats you poorly as a result, just re-read your question here and know you did right by this suffering creature they neglected.

If by some miracle the vet says his teeth are not causing him pain, and he is doing about as well as expected for his age, then you might consider returning him to your grandpa. But that seems doubtful.
I will Zelle you $50 toward the vet bill if you send me the info.
posted by Glinn at 11:22 AM on April 28, 2023 [1 favorite]


I briefly worked at a vets office in like a secretarial role, so this is my perspective...


1. 14 is old for a dog. Breeds and individual dogs can be fairly variable in life expectancy and what that looks like, but no matter what he's not going to have a dramatic improvement even with very expensive care. He's still going to be an old dog with teeth problems and poop problems and mobility problems. Even with the best care his baseline likely won't improve much more than what you currently see.

2. A vets philosophy may be playing a role in this. Some vets are very aware of cost benefit analysis of what it means to do certain things and tend to be health care providing conservative because of it, other vets lean towards doing everything possible and offering out very expensive options for smaller chances of benefit, some push more invasive procedures some less. Some may have profit margin things to think about as well. So the vet can very well be telling your family that he is fine for his age. People really vary in how much care they give dogs especially towards end of life. This is an ethical perspective and there is no right or wrong answer here.

3. Vaccinations in dogs. Vaccinations are important, but sometimes city/state ordinances are influenal to recommended standards as opposed to actual medical need. I worked in a city that added a fee for the rabies vaccine and mandated it yearly, even though the effacy for the vaccine is longer than that. Most ordinances can vary anywhere between one and three years for the SAME vaccine.The vet felt it was a blatant cash grab and not actually beneficial to the dogs. So depending on the vaccine, and also your dogs risk ( is he socializing with other dogs at this point in his life? Visiting dog parks ect) the vaccine thing may not actually be that much of a health risk or any at all.

Now on to some other things. I think your going to have to approach this differently with your family. First from the perspective that even if they have a different philosophy of care from you that your family loves this dog and that's why they don't want him to leave. When you start from a common ground, we all love this dog, you can start to negotiate better care for him. You might also consider taking about philosophy of care for dogs. You seem like a person who really values dental health in dogs which is totally fine! Lots of people don't. Also, see the US not seeing dental care as regular medical care. It's a whole frame of reference that may be easier to talk about and create action plans for than the message of you are doing bad with this dog you love and only I can fix it.

There sounds like emotions are running really high in your family right now. There is talk about the dog and suddenly all kinds of stuff is coming up. I think you will really need to try an approach that deescalates some of these really high emotional points and focuses on what's realistic now.

Good luck! I know you only want the best for this dog. I hope you get the chance to give him the care you think he deserves.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:26 AM on April 28, 2023 [11 favorites]


Havanese are small dogs and, while this little guy is definitely a senior, he might still have a few good years ahead of him, if his health is attended to. Dental pain can have a serious impact on a dog's quality of life. Getting teeth fixed can be scary (often requiring anesthesia), but it can also be a great investment in their well-being. Obviously, though, talk to the vet about whether the risk is worth it and whether there are other issues that might mean it's not worth subjecting him to the dental work.
posted by praemunire at 11:29 AM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]


I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

A quick Google suggests that this dog's current age is pretty close to the average life expectancy for his breed. At minimum, I think this means he needs to be monitored (professionally or just by you) for signs of new/worsening health issues.

Give some thought to end-of-life scenarios. If you take him to the vet someday and the vet says he's suffering and it's time to consider euthanasia, I suspect that opens up yet more conflict with your family ("you kidnapped our dog and killed him!"). While they've neglected this dog, it will still be painful to lose him, which makes it all the more complex for you. Maybe it would help if they hear from a vet about his health status now rather than when he's declined further, just so they appreciate that (as others have said above) he's unlikely to "get better" compared to how he's doing now.

I don't know what part of the world you live in, but it's possible there are vets who make home visits there. I have friends here (USA) who have a vet that comes to their house for all their veterinary care. I wonder if seeing a vet examine the dog and talk to them about what health concerns they should watch out for would help them take his health more seriously. That could also go very badly, of course, but I wanted to suggest that option in case you think it could work.
posted by katieinshoes at 11:44 AM on April 28, 2023


Response by poster: I think in a hurry I forgot to mention that I took a dog to the vet personally just today and the vet said that the condition of his mouth is absolutely atrocious, he would definitely need to have teeth pulled out as they are rotting in his mouth; he has a cyst on his neck and hips issues, likely arthritis but it can't be determined without x-ray. He has almost no muscle tone on his hind legs and this is causing him issues.
I live in Europe and I live abroad. The vet said if I have home office, it would be a decent idea to take him with me, although she can't guarantee anything as he was used to another environment.
posted by Salicornia at 12:04 PM on April 28, 2023


Hi, I'm going to give a somewhat contrary opinion. I am a lifelong dog lover and dog owner. With all due respect, this is not your dog anymore. The dog belongs to your grandfather. Taking the dog away would not be kind to either of them right now, particularly since the dog probably does not have long to live. Not everything can be fixed even with all the veterinary care and love and good meaning in the world - and arthritis and hip issues in a 14 year old dog are sadly on that list. If he has no muscle tone in his hind legs it is not going to come back. That is a sign that he is old and his life is ending. He might have a year left, although two is unlikely, but long walks are over for him and there is very little that can be done. I just went through this with my 14 year old dog: she lost muscle tone and then more muscle tone and eventually we knew it was time. I have also been through the same cycle before, with other dogs. It is heartbreaking, I know, but you can't turn back time and change the past for new outcomes. All you really have at this point is making sure he has a good quality of life, which in my opinion would not entail moving him from the family he knows and putting him in a home with a much younger dog and other animals.

What can you do? Well, you could take him to the vet (with or without your family's permission) request painkillers and talk about end of life options for the future. If your family will give him the painkillers, that will honestly do the most to improve his life right now. I would not subject a 14 year old dog to dental surgery. Just give him soft food and a soft bed to lie on, let him snooze in the sun and take some little short walks to smell things and that's a good last year for an old dog.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:56 PM on April 28, 2023 [12 favorites]


If it were my childhood pet, I'd very have a hard time leaving them behind.

But I'm also sympathetic to mygothlaundry's perspective. Relocating an elderly, infirm dog away from the people and places he knows will be very hard on him. I adopted a cat with serious health issues -- including needing all her teeth pulled -- a few years ago, and she was absolutely devastated. It took almost a year before she seemed to really feel safe in our home. Being around an energetic younger dog every day all day can also be really stressful for older pets. And his care will be very, very expensive if you address all of it (just the dental work could be thousands).

I think the suggestion of focusing on palliative care might be appropriate. I'm hoping there's a compromise option where you help equip your family figure out painkillers, softer food, etc., to make your dog's life gentler in his remaining years while allowing him to stay at home.
posted by katieinshoes at 1:16 PM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: I understand this is not my dog anymore, I am just uncomfortable seeing him suffer. Also I tried getting him back years before that when he was still healthy and I only faced resentment and false promises. I regret my entire decision to pursue studies in the first place, I admit, it was a big mistake and I should have focused on making life comfortable for the dog, finding an employment and a pet friendly flat - and I will never be able to forgive myself, for not doing that, even if at the age of 18. (our country gives away no student loans and there is a narrow timeframe when you can study for free). But it angers me, being lied to even about grandpa's attachment. When I presented the vet facts to him, he downright laughed at his state, saying "what, are you crazy, the dog will need a dentist?" and "that's what he gets for sitting on the cold floor". And THIS is the "attached" person and mentality I sacrificed my dog to.

I will at least provide some quality food to him in that case and give a vet a call if there is anything that can be done, at all.

Update is also that my mother was threatening with suicide because of that situation today, escaped from the house and went offline and father went to seek her and comfort her. Because I dared saying the dog is neglected, suffers and it has not started yesterday but was going on for several months.
posted by Salicornia at 3:47 PM on April 28, 2023


Given your additional comments and other responses, I think this is a more complicated situation than I realized when I wrote my first angry answer. Not just because it sounds like your family may be dealing with significant mental health issues, but it’s true that it may be very hard on the dog to remove him from the people he knows. They are his family, even if he is not treated as he should be. (It’s also possible he is very unhappy and taking him would be best, but I don’t think internet strangers can tell.) Also, if he is as near to his end as others suggest then the added stress of a new home and family could be too much. (I think of smaller dogs as living closer to 16-17 years, but health problems can shorten that of course) What a terrible situation! Painkillers is a great idea, is there any chance he would get them there?

That much said, don’t beat yourself up for what you did or didn’t do at 18. If you feel you must make amends, then try to provide a good home for an unwanted dog when you are able to in your life. It’s not your fault that your family is so troubled. It sounds very hard and you can only do the best you can. Thank you for trying.
posted by Glinn at 4:42 PM on April 28, 2023 [2 favorites]


Looking at your update, I don't see a reason to think you're being "lied to" about your grandpa's attachment. What we owe to dogs in our care is going to be seen differently due to generational and cultural differences. Many of my older relatives cared for animals, but wouldn't have even considered letting them in the house. They were raised with the idea that all animals belong outside no matter what the weather (animals were sheltered in bad weather, but in a barn or garage or unheated dog house). A man I knew who grew up in a small village in Nigeria was appalled and dismayed by American pet stores. He could not understand how Americans could spend that much money on pets. When my older relatives were growing up, a dog in pain would have been "put out of its misery" and not in a warm, friendly vet's office. (See the movie "Old Yeller." Or don't. It's very upsetting.)

I could totally see some of my older relatives finding the idea of taking a dog to the dentist absurd. How long has that even existed as a possibility? That doesn't mean they would be lying if they said they cared about a dog.
posted by FencingGal at 4:19 AM on April 29, 2023 [2 favorites]


Stop negotiating. Make a vet appt., go visit, take the dog for a walk - to a different vet, so no one will know. Get his teeth cleaned, nails trimmed. Take him to a groomer for a bath. When you get home, tell the family you had the grooming done as a treat for grandpa. Keep doing this. At this pup's age, a dog walker would mostly provide a short walk and affection, but you can offer a weekly dog walker to save them the trouble.

This has turned in to a control issue and a defense against accusations issue, and Mom, at least, is dramatic and manipulative. You won't win these battles, even if you should. Make it about how you miss your old dog and see if you can get some visitation to provide secret health care.
posted by theora55 at 9:56 AM on April 29, 2023 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: After a long discussion, sadly this really was the battle I am not able to win. I live abroad and bringing dog with me is illegal at the moment as the dog was not vaccinated on time, 3 weeks need to pass until he can travel. The other vet said as well that the dental surgery would be needed and very few things can be done to improve his situation significantly. I ordered the dog painkillers and senior dog food, he is now groomed and vaccinated. I am looking into other options to possibly get him at least partial dental treatment. Brother promised to help although he made it clear he is not taking it as a priority in his life. I guess it really is not my place anymore and the sooner I realize it, the less awful I will feel, even though it hurts.
Secondly, my cat started struggling with UTIs, I am trying to discover whether it was stress induced or something else (since neighbor's cat has similar issues, both indoor cats and not in touch with each other). We started having some infected pigeons problematics and until at least this gets fully healed, I will leave the dog as he is.

In addition, I significantly reduced the contact with my family. It was when we got this dog that I gradually started realizing how long years of their narcissism and manipulative nature started affecting me. I am NC for 2 weeks and started noticing slight improvements in my mental health. Thank you for your constructive feedback!
posted by Salicornia at 10:29 AM on May 18, 2023


Response by poster: Another update to the story. Even after promises to ease the dog's life, nothing has changed, the dog has not been checked not one single time, no painkillers were provided, even brother did not take initiation. 2 months went by and I decided I can rely to no one but myself. I took off at 5am, several hours later I arrived, took the dog from their property and left. I had vet scheduled in advance in my country so we went there immediately; the smell of a poor pup was unbearable and the car did get rid of it for a week.
Anyway bloodwork showed that he might have a few good years ahead of him if he is not neglected. We underwent the surgery, all the teeth needed to be taken out and neutering was also performed; it turned out perfectly. Vet aid, healing process, food supplements, 2 proper baths and haircuts later, he is a brand new dog without a hint of stench. The only difficulty is his arthritis, X ray showed it affected his hips and especially knees severely. He will never again be a running dog I used to know but he has great appetite and even tries to run sometimes, although most of the time he sleeps or cuddles up next to any human he can find. It has been a month of peaceful life.

As for the family members - grandfather, who had the dog by his side mostly, said he does not care that much that he is gone and is happy that he is feeling better. For him it was almost a "burden" as he needed to prepare food to adjust his teeth. Parents are no longer talking to me, only saying that I was a sick individual and I am the one who needs treatment, not the dog.
I am happy with my decision.
posted by Salicornia at 2:47 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]


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