Young adult wants to move internationally for a long distance love
January 4, 2023 9:05 PM   Subscribe

My daughter is a young adult (18) who met another young woman online. They love each other and have zoomed every day for a year but never met in person. Now she plans to take a one way flight to the literal other side of the world as a permanent move to start a life together in a small, cold, dark town even further away. I don’t know what to do. How can I make this safer or stop it happening or persuade her to at least visit first?

Both young people are neurodivergent and they have lots of plans and spreadsheets and no real world experience. (Both living with parents currently) My daughter is limited by her need to get a job in order to pay for this plan, so it will take longer than she thinks. She is not receptive to my recommendations that she plan a trip to visit and meet her person and see if they even click in real life, or visit the area she’s thinking of living. (Assuming visa requirements are applied) To me it feels most likely to end unhappily.

We are not going to financially support this trip! But would be able to find funds to bring her home if it all falls apart. I have thought perhaps I should travel with her just in case and call it a holiday for myself? But this would be my probably once in a lifetime trip to this country and I would rather travel with the rest of my family and not on this stressful plan.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (45 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it doesn’t sound like she has the money or the wherewithal to actually carry out a move of this magnitude, are you sure this is something you have to seriously worry about?
posted by cakelite at 9:11 PM on January 4, 2023 [10 favorites]


What do the other parents think of this? Are they willing to temporarily host your daughter while they figure things out? You'll do what you can, of course.
posted by kschang at 9:13 PM on January 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


she plans to take a one way flight to the literal other side of the world as a permanent move
A lot depends on which country this actually is, and what passport she has, because many/most countries will greet her at the passport desk, hear this plan, and deport her straight back on a return flight at her own cost, and with a no-entry record (at best)! Presumably she has no in-demand professional skills, or potential to invest. Ask her: is there actually a migration pathway at all?
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:15 PM on January 4, 2023 [54 favorites]


Can the other person come visit and you host her, accepting that you will have two lovestruck young adults canoodling around the house for a month or so? Talk with her parents and see if that's possible.

Two of my sweetest friends met online as teens/young adults and I hosted one as she went on a trip that eventually became her moving halfway around the world to marry her now wife and they've been together happily for a decade. I have had other people get surprise plane tickets as teens and move overseas to their partners definitely less happily but there were significant age/power gaps in those.

Honestly, she sounds in love and making plans which is totally age appropriate and nice.

Unless either side has a lot of money, encourage them to dream and be friendly and hospitable to what could be your in-laws. Get your daughter to slowly deal with the practical stuff which is a great incentive for her to get a job, work out paperwork and phone calls and so on. Helping her with job applications and filling out visa paperwork is not enabling her - paying for the ticket would be.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:15 PM on January 4, 2023 [29 favorites]


What is it that you think might go wrong here? It seems like this trip, or the attempt at it, might be a not so bad way to gain life experience? It does sound as though the hard reality of visas and money will probably be one thing she'll learn about. Breaking up with someone is also not the end of the world? I know she's young but many many of my peers and I went travelling around the world at that age. We of course made many mistakes but also learnt a lot. Are you worried about safety? I would try to clarify the specifics of your concerns and talk with her about how to manage those.
posted by jojobobo at 9:17 PM on January 4, 2023 [19 favorites]


You have to let your grown kids fuck up sometimes. It's ok to fuck up.

There are about 10000 steps between today and being able to put her plan into motion, so just try to let it go. In the meantime, while making this plan, your kid will be learning valuable life skills like being gainfully employed, dealing with disappointment, delayed gratification, and negotiating a long distance relationship. She's at the right age to be learning coping mechanisms to deal with these problems and the many many others she'll meet in her adult life. It doesn't matter if you support her ultimate goals, but you do need to support her as a growing person in this world developing life skills and coping tools. This may all fall apart or she'll get interested in something/someone else in all the time it takes to actually be ready to go.

And then like. Even so. It could all be fine and she and her girlfriend could have a super happy and functional life together. It's unlikely, but I think you can also prepare yourself for what if your kid is totally ok.
posted by phunniemee at 9:19 PM on January 4, 2023 [52 favorites]


Assuming she's proposing to move somewhere with the rule of law, the big risk to your daughter's safety is if the girlfriend is untrustworthy in some way. I.e., either a catfisher/scammer or a perfectly nice young person who is nonetheless under the thumb of someone nasty. How often have you spoken to this girl? What tangible evidence do you have that what she says about her identity is true? I would really try to get to know her. You can't preempt every scam, but your intuition will be a lot more alert than your daughter's to red flags. It sounds like you have time; starting without any money, it will take your daughter months, if not more, to get from point A to point B. At 18, assuming she's not actually intellectually disabled, she's old enough to start learning the limitations of spreadsheets and to break her own heart.

Helping her with job applications and filling out visa paperwork is not enabling her - paying for the ticket would be.

I don't know about enabling, but no young person should be moving off to the other side of the world if she can't do her own paperwork. She'll probably make some mistakes, but better that she make them--and get some idea of the likely harrowing bureaucratic processes awaiting her further down the road--while still at home.
posted by praemunire at 9:33 PM on January 4, 2023 [20 favorites]


You have to let your grown kids fuck up sometimes. It's ok to fuck up. This part is so important.

When I was young in the pre-internet era, a principal once told my dad that I was going to be ok, no matter what. I cannot describe to you how grateful I am to that principal for instilling that confidence in my father.

Your daughter doesn't need to worry about you worrying about her. She doesn't need you traveling there with her to see her off. She will be ok. You will be ok. Let your daughter live and learn and grow.
posted by aniola at 10:15 PM on January 4, 2023 [8 favorites]


Teenage love is one of the strongest life forces there is. Literally. Like can you think of anything as strong?

So you are going to have to give strong guidance I think, but teenagers will risk their lives for love. I don't mean to be overdramatic. I just mean to say that your hands are tied a bit in terms of what you can do.

You can provide some opinions when asked. You can caution. You can be a good mum, which I think you have been. I think the biggest factors here are going to be money and distance and the bureaucracies of borders. None of which you can do much about (other than money, but I agree, this is not something for parents to be spending money on).

I know this is super scary as a parent to observe.

When I was around that age I fell hard for a woman across the continent. It was exciting and ended the way most of these things do - distance, growing up, lots of emotion. But I wouldn't change it happening for a second. It was a valuable life experience that I cherish.
posted by miles1972 at 10:17 PM on January 4, 2023 [2 favorites]


why not let her give it a go?
posted by PinkMoose at 10:19 PM on January 4, 2023 [4 favorites]


I have thought perhaps I should travel with her just in case and call it a holiday for myself? But this would be my probably once in a lifetime trip to this country and I would rather travel with the rest of my family and not on this stressful plan.

I mean, either this is a seriously worrying situation worth making a less-than-ideal trip for, or it isn't?

Do you know your daughter's girlfriend at all? Do you know her parents? Does your daughter know the language of the other country, or is it a place where English is widely spoken? Are they planning to live in a place large enough for your daughter to have lots of options if this relationship doesn't work out? Would her visa enable her to work? What about higher education? Is the government there one that cares about human rights? Is this a country with social supports and support networks she could access if necessary?

How can I make this safer or stop it happening or persuade her to at least visit first?
Both young people are neurodivergent and they have lots of plans and spreadsheets and no real world experience.


Given that you say it'll take your daughter time to come up with the funds, you could use this time to make sure she gets some real-world experience and the life skills necessary for taking care of herself. She should have experience getting by in a workplace, arranging routine and emergency medical care (well hopefully not personal experience arranging emergency care, but she should know how to do it), budgeting and maintaining a bank account and credit card and phone, opening accounts by herself, dealing with taxes and the other paperwork of life, and so on. She should know at least a little about how local systems work (utilities, transportation, government, etc.) both where she lives now and in the new place. She should know at least a little about the ins and outs of renting a home - how to do it, what to watch out for, how to investigate what legal protections there are for tenants, how to sign a contract (or not sign it), etc. How to do basic home repairs, feed herself, clean. And so on. How to find and access help if she needs it.

And she needs to know how to stand up for herself in a relationship and not put up with abusive behavior. Which hopefully won't be the case, and it's not clear how much you can teach that.

But if she knows how to do all or most of those things, and she's planning to move someplace like Helsinki, and in the worst case you can afford to help her come home... is that really so bad? (Or so different than planning a long trip there?)

(It is different in the sense that if she does stay there you will see her much less often than you would if she stayed nearer to home and that's probably a sad thing to think about. But that's a different matter than worrying that it'll end badly.)
posted by trig at 10:28 PM on January 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


This is the life stage where you and your daughter are going to be transitioning to an adult-adult relationship. You can't shelter your daughter forever. How you respond to this international relationship may set your relationship on a trajectory. What do you want your future relationship to look like?
posted by aniola at 10:33 PM on January 4, 2023 [9 favorites]


Having been in a somewhat similar position (but only on the other side of the US) I did about what you did - recognized that she was a legal adult and had the power to make her own decisions. Knowing you aren't in control here is important - the priority is to not blow up your relationship with your daughter so she can turn to you for help when she needs it.

In my case relationship drama made the whole thing blow up before it became reality. So try to calm down and give it time to unfold. This might never happen. And by the time the move happens, if it ever does, both you and she will know more about what it going on.

So, I think you want to take the stance that if she has a good safe plan for how to do this, you won't stop her and you will wish her well. Out loud at least, I try to take the positive perspective that no matter what happens, she will learn a lot of things she never would have learned if she stayed home. (You want to create the possibility that she goes, it is a disaster but she can home and feel proud of having done something hard and learned a lot.)

Also, have you met the parents on the other side? How do they feel about it? Do they seem to be people that you can trust to keep on eye on things? In my case, the parents of the other girl were reasonable people and I felt like they were important allies if the move had actually happened.

As one parent to another, I hope this finds its way to some kind of happy ending.
posted by metahawk at 10:41 PM on January 4, 2023 [5 favorites]


18 is young, but many 18 year olds can absolutely take care of themselves. I moved out when I was 18, my parents thought I'd be moving back in as soon as I got into trouble, but I did fine. And it was a crazy fun adventure! Your daughter is showing an amazing personality trait - fearlessness. Let her know that you'll love her no matter what, and if she needs to come back, the door is open. Trying to stop her is just a recipe for unhappiness. If her plan means that she's going to have to get a job and save money? Excellent. She is going to be motivated to get organized in a way that may teenagers aren't. Maybe see if you can sit in on a friendly zoom call to get to know her girlfriend a little?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:57 PM on January 4, 2023 [6 favorites]


I know a young adult (19-US) that had a similar experience, it seems with the covid lockdowns teens got more creative. Anyway, said young adult has now visited the cold dark place (UK) twice and returned both times. It's a little different because their grandma paid for a trip to London where they would meet up on neutral ground vs. the UK hometown.

They are still dating but visas are difficult so it continues to be long distance. Said young adult was not excited for college before this and had been begrudgingly attending a local community college, but is now looking at student visas to the UK and transferring credits. Turns out it's much easier to get a student visa than a working or permanent immigration visa, especially in your teens.

Were I you, I might focus your discussion on the practicalities. What type of visa is your child getting for the move? Will they live together or apart? What type of skills do they need to build now? You will either be more confident in your kid's great plan or have an opportunity to gently direct the plan so some of your worries can be reduced. As someone who isn't your child's parent this does sound like a grand adventure, and I wish I would have had a chance to live abroad in my youth. Perhaps framing it as a more broad international experience will help you get past the hopeless young love angle.
posted by Narrow Harbor at 10:59 PM on January 4, 2023 [9 favorites]


I am not dorothyisunderwood's (specific) friend, and the cold, dark, country I moved to was only a quarter way round the world, buuuuut, lesbians gonna lesbian. By 19 I had moved to live with the woman who has been my wife for the last 25 years or so. I didn't see my mother for years after the fact, partly but not only due to her handling of *throws hands in the air*. My wife's mother however, invited us to join her on holidays the summer after our intense couple of months of long-distance (pre internet, so international phone calls every night, ya dig?) even going so far as to rent a separate apartment for us to stay in. I got to know her family, they got to know me, and were a huge support to me in my new country. You mention ND status, but tbh, that says nothing other than that you think it's relevant. If you have reason to believe your adult child is not capable of independent living going forward into adulthood that is a different statement. I am also ND fwiw and if anything I would say it contributes to me knowing my own mind and not being overly steered by others or by convention.

Long story short, share their enthusiasm, don't do the work for them but don't gatekeep the knowledge they need to plan towards, and even excecute this thing. Ideally you offer, honestly, to host the girlfriend for a fortnight, and even support your child working towards funding half the ticket if that's something she decides to do. Don't contribute financially to any of this until the girlfriend is in your house if you do this. Make sure your daughter knows that NZ authorities will make damned sure she has a return ticket, just in case they have any clever ideas there. But yeah, your daughter is in love, whatever way this goes all you can do is decide if she does it with your love and investment in her life or not.
posted by Iteki at 11:00 PM on January 4, 2023 [37 favorites]


Do you know what you’re worried about specifically? Like…what would being there for a week really accomplish?

I think giving her the confidence that she can handle things would be a gift. My parents did all kinds of weird things but they also let me do a lot of solo travel (pre-Internet!) and it was really great for me.

While she’s working, you might want to see if you can have her take first aid (it’s a crash course in evaluating situations in a crisis) and maybe a self-defence class.

I’d personally put the money you want to put into a ticket into a super cell phone plan and an emergency fund. Make sure she can reach you, but also Uber/Lyft/AirBnB/Expedia or whatever makes sense for that region. If it’s a tiny remote town, learn the exit routes. And definitely see if you can connect with the other parents.

If you’re worried about heartbreak…sometimes that is actually easier if by coming home you put half a planet between you.

Another idea you could plant with them is if they both attended a school together either at one location or in-between, that would give them supports for visas and a bit of a safety net as well as an education. But it would make a relationship failure potentially a lot more expensive!
posted by warriorqueen at 11:40 PM on January 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


Hi, I'm in your country. I think the visa issue is going to be more important than you (or she?) seem to think. If she turns up at the airport with a one-way ticket, she runs the risk that the airline won't even let her board, never mind being turned away at the destination as Fiasco de Gama rightly mentioned. Assuming I'm thinking of the right country, what right does she have to live there? (citizenship, ancestry visa, working holiday visa...?). She's going to need something.

(Feel free to MeMail me if you have questions and don't want to discuss publicly).

I just looked up your location and so now in my head I'm imagining, like, Cleveland.


As a pedant, this is setting my teeth on edge ;-)
posted by Pink Frost at 1:10 AM on January 5, 2023 [5 favorites]


I mean, what are your actual fears here?

- She gets her heart broken. (This happens to us all.)
- She gets deported. (She comes home, which is what you want anyway.)
- She gets sex trafficked. (That sounds unlikely.)
- She hates it and is miserable. (She comes home, which is what you want anyway.)
- She loves it but needs financial support. (You can force her to come home, which is what you want anyway.)

Maybe just step back a bit and let her propel herself forward? This whole thing may run out of steam anyway.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:05 AM on January 5, 2023 [7 favorites]


Given that you could afford to fly her home, I would try not to worry too much.

She can save up for a plane ticket. If that takes longer than she thinks it will, that's not really a problem. Having a job will probably be at least marginally helpful to her regardless of what she spends the money on.

Getting an appropriate visa is likely to be a bigger challenge. This would worry me a lot if I was your daughter, but other people are more relaxed about it. The worst that seems to happen is you have to come home and then you rail against the injustices of the world.

If they have had actual video conversations over an extended period of time this is unlikely to be a romance scam. It also sounds like your daughter doesn't have enough cash to really lose to a scam in any case. The worst that can happen is that she comes to the cold dark town and is miserable for one reason or another - but you can afford to fly her home. Just make sure to maintain a decent relationship with her such that she knows that she can always call you if she gets into difficulties and you will love her without judgement and help her as much as you can.
posted by plonkee at 3:10 AM on January 5, 2023 [4 favorites]


I’ve made some fairly hare brained (trans continental) moves for love and other reasons, mostly in my 20’s. I have to say, there is a lot of power in knowing that even if you did fuck it all up, your parents are ready and willing to buy you a plane ticket home or welcome you back into their house. Your kid is going to make mistake in life, hopefully not really awful or serious ones, but they’ll make mistakes and knowing you’ll be there to help them pick up any broken pieces will make all the difference.
posted by raccoon409 at 3:40 AM on January 5, 2023 [12 favorites]


People move internationally for long distance love all the time, including neurodivergent people. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it doesn’t. In either case it’s pretty unlikely to be a terrible tragedy.

Unless there are factors you didn’t include about why this specific trip is so dangerous, I’d counsel just proceeding under the assumption this is happening. Use the time while she saves to step back from whatever you are doing for her, to scaffold her ability to take care of herself - if she doesn’t cook, clean, pay her own bills, do her own laundry, it’s time to learn while you’re still around for advice if she asks for it. Talk about whatever practical skills you think she’s lacking to live alone, talk about visas, make sure she knows she can always come home.
posted by Stacey at 4:24 AM on January 5, 2023 [4 favorites]


Oh, one other thing, LDR gaybies can and will see marriage as a “solution” to visa issues. A girl I knew married a woman she met on IRC the first (and only) time they visited and then spent five years trying to divorce her (less of an issue now when ssm exists in more countries). I can’t think of a way of dissuading against this without putting the idea in her head though, but wanted to offer the heads-up.
But yeah, let her roll with her plan, worst thing that happens is she ends up with a job and an understanding of immigration law.
posted by Iteki at 4:25 AM on January 5, 2023 [5 favorites]


A lot depends on which country this actually is, and what passport she has, because many/most countries will greet her at the passport desk, hear this plan, and deport her straight back on a return flight at her own cost, and with a no-entry record (at best)! Presumably she has no in-demand professional skills, or potential to invest. Ask her: is there actually a migration pathway at all?

It's also worth keeping in mind that getting denied entry/deported at the border for attempting to migrate permanently without the right visa/paperwork could substantially complicate any later efforts to visit or migrate to that country permanently.

I'm not a parent so can't speak to the wisdom (or not) of letting children make their own mistakes, but getting on the wrong side of immigration law is not something to be trifled with and can have consequences much longer-lasting than one might like.
posted by andrewesque at 4:59 AM on January 5, 2023 [5 favorites]


Honestly this kind of long distance relationship sounds quite common among neurodivergent queer people. It could be based on fantasy and projection but it could also be based on a kind of mutual recognition that is actually relatively rare/ specific to that person? It's possible that your daughter is somewhat unique with a relatively smaller dating pool and naturally communicates well online = relationship based in something real, whereas for neurotypical straight people, this kind of internet relationship would set off more red flags like the distance was a plus sustaining a fantasy that would come crushing down in reality/ getting someone to move is setting them up for an uneven power differential.
Perhaps even think about this now, ways to recognise how much of the relationship is based in reality- talk to your daughter about how her girlfriend responds to conflict and boundary setting? What kinds of values and interests do they share? And give her a framework for recognising abuse.
A potential obstacle I see is there being a lot of pressure on the relationship to work as it is such a big move. so (perhaps nearer the time if the move is looking more likely) identify ways to have some independence in the new place as well.
Honestly another obstacle I see is that they are in love, get along really well, but the practicalities of the legal/visa system and working as a neurodivergent person put too much stress on them. And in that case recognising that that is what has happened, rather than seeing that kind of long distance connection as something that inherently is untrustworthy if that makes sense.
I feel like an attitude that your daughter is taking an exciting risk that may or may not work, and that coming home if she needs to doesn't mean she made a mistake but that she tried something that didn't work would help her not feel stuck in a situation that is unhealthy.
posted by mosswinter at 5:00 AM on January 5, 2023 [6 favorites]


Yeah, I meant to note that as far as the visa goes, part of the conversation about saving can include a discussion about saving to meet with an immigration expert before she goes anywhere. She'll want to know exactly what the visa process is where she's going, it may involve a series of interim visas, and if there are marriage plans it might be better for several reasons to have the girlfriend come for a visit and get married in your home country. It's complex stuff, better navigated with an expert so she doesn't inadvertently screw herself over, and it sounds as if from your perspective it would be a bonus that it would slow this down further. So, a win all around.

I should perhaps also note that my thoughts on this are informed by knowing multiple queer neurodivergent couples who have done exactly this and are very happily partnered and together in one country or the other now. So this seems very normal to me, it's just something to be done carefully because visas are messy.
posted by Stacey at 5:21 AM on January 5, 2023 [6 favorites]


I have a friend who left an abusive marriage in her early 30s and almost immediately moved from the US to a country in South America to live with a guy she had known online for a few years via an MMO guild. I thought it was a setup for a horrible scam or that she was immediately jumping into another dysfunctional relationship. But it’s been a few years and even with the part where she unexpectedly got stuck there instead of coming home after 6 months because of Covid border closures, everything seems fine? She’s supporting herself by teaching English online, the guy doesn’t seem to be using her for any sort of scam, she’s now close to fluent in Spanish, and she seems happy and on better terms with her parents than she’s been in a long time. Maybe I should have been less skeptical.
posted by A Blue Moon at 5:30 AM on January 5, 2023


If this plan somehow sets in motion, make sure she understands the healthcare system in the new country, as well as costs and availability of doctors or meds for anything she might need, especially if she sees any doctors now for her neurodivergent needs.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 5:35 AM on January 5, 2023 [5 favorites]


Also, discuss the "best" case scenario, where she goes, likes the town and new lifestyle, and the relationship works out (or even if it doesn't but she can somehow stay visa-wise), is it realistic for her to make enough money and have vacation days to visit home at least once a year? Or would that burden be on you and the rest of the family to visit her, plus potential hotel rooms? This is something that adults think about as they move cross-country, when/how they'll be able to visit and how much to budget for that.

Also, ask to meet the parents, it's totally reasonable to meet a long term partner's parents when the person is still young and making a huge move like this.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 5:46 AM on January 5, 2023


I can't speak to the LTR/immigration part, but when I was in my 20s and traveling to meet internet people, one thing that helped me safety-wise was just knowing how I could bail if/when things seemed sketchy. It was just along the lines of 'if things feel weird to me, I will go to the nearest available hotel and put it on a credit card and that will be fine'. I didn't need it; the internet people were great. But I'm glad I had that plan in my back pocket.

(YMMV and I hope it does, but I would have put up with a lot before asking my parents for that kind of help - they would bail me out, but I would never hear the end of it. So I needed a pretty low-barrier self-rescue option.)
posted by mersen at 6:01 AM on January 5, 2023 [3 favorites]


Having made one particularly hairbrained move for passion in my mid / late 20s my main suggestion would be to encourage your kid to pay attention to the city / region they would be visiting / moving to.

The outcomes of both successful love or turning a failed romantic journey into an adventure of its own are going to be shaped by place as much as person. Big city with public transport versus a regional village where they need girlfriend / girlfriend's parents to drive as well as work and education possibilities.

what do the need to make being there work for them independent of the young love? Can they potentially study and work there? If they are in higher education can they organise this as a semester abroad? Do they need to learn another language, eat different foods / drive on the other side of the road? Are there cultural experiences in destination place that they could explore while there?

Most importantly, i recommend that they book a temporary stay eg 48 hours at a hostel or Air BNB either in girlfriend's city or closest city nearby. Maybe this is something you give to them as a token of support. This provides kid with a place to deal with jetlag, learn how to navigate new place on their own terms and if relationship does go awry they have at least a backup place to stay or down the line a potential place to book a room if things fall apart. Being in a new place and sticking with a relationship just because you can think of no no other place to stay is the a horrible circumstance. Best case scenario the young couple have a place to meet each other which is not family home of new girlfriend.
posted by pipstar at 6:07 AM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]


When I was 17 I left my college dorm room in the middle of the night to move across the country (by bus) to be with a guy (21M) I met on IRC. I continued to let my parents think I was safely tucked away in college until the semester was over and my dorm room had to be cleaned out. My parents had a huge fight about how they were going to handle this situation--my mom threatened to divorce my dad if he continued to speak with me and financially support me, and my dad said he wasn't going to wreck his relationship with his child over stupid teen shit. He kept the lines of communication open, even offering small amounts financial support from time to time, and it ended up working out fine. The relationship didn't last, but I lived out west for about 10 years before moving back. If my father had just disowned me or let me wither on the vine I doubt we would have much of a relationship now. And not to be dramatic, but it's also very likely I would be dead. Shortly after I moved back east I was diagnosed with cancer and had inadequate health insurance, and my dad came through for me again, using his connections in health care to help me get surgery and radiation. If he'd cut me off until I behaved back when I was 17, there's a chance I wouldn't have even thought to contact him for support.

Anyway. I'm 47 now. I survived my manic (literally) move across the country, and I still have a relationship with my dad because he didn't try to make me suffer or control me because I was young and stupid.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 6:46 AM on January 5, 2023 [21 favorites]


I can't emphasize enough the need to get the visa / immigration issues handled properly. If she is deported, depending on the regulations of the country she is deported from, she could even get a lifetime ban from entering the country. Even if she makes it into the country, it sounds like she will need some kind of legal status that allows her to stay in the country indefinitely as well as work there. Visitor visas typically are only for a limited term and do not allow one to work in the country. In the U.S., overstaying your visa or working when the visa does not allow you to do so is grounds for deportation.
posted by needled at 7:37 AM on January 5, 2023


I suggest let her/them build toward this goal. You mention she has to get a job to save for this trip... which is going to be an instructive experience. As long as you don't give in to provding support, let your young adult daughter experience the exercise of her young adult agency and deal with the inevitable young adult difficulties. You can make it extremely clear to her what the extent of your support can be—flying her home in case of urgency—and let her handle the rest. THere's a lot for her to do, and it might be nice for her to experience that process if she's spreadsheeting it out in anticipation. I mean, the passport and visa situation is pretty central here, because depending on where she's planning to go arriving with a one way ticket and no working clearance is going to raise eyebrows at the border. I would do my due diligence to understand what the visa requirements are so that you can raise this line of questioning with her, but that's the level of engagement I think you should limit yourself to—asking questions, being a voice of reason and calm, and making sure she knows you're judging from your personal experience and not judging her.

I moved out of the country when I was 18. It was to go to a university on a scholarship, sure, but it was also a daring move for a very socially isolated, inexperienced rural gay kid. My mom was shitting bricks before I left, but I couldn't wait. It was a life changing experience, and a period that I still look back on as a sort of personal awakening.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:37 AM on January 5, 2023


I agree with everyone saying that the visa bit is likely going to be a huge obstacle for an 18 year-old with (presumably) no special work skills. Even fiancée/spousal visas aren't easy - I know a fair number of international people who have dealt with this in the US, and there is so much work involved with taking photos together, saving joint-bills, etc. To give just one example, two of my friends who are married, have had two weddings in two different countries, and can prove they've lived together for years, recently had to go through another round of visa applications and asked that I take a few photos of them together - just to be safe. I realize not all countries are quite as zany as the US, but I was also recently looking into what would happen in terms of my long-time partner if I got a job on a specialized worker visa to the UK, and while it seems like it would probably eventually work out there were numerous people online explaining that everything had gotten worse post-Brexit, and then even worse post-Covid.

So I would support the relationship by encouraging an intermediary step of some sort - so "Oh daughter, I'm so excited that you've maybe found your person! I've been looking into the visa requirements too, and it seems like it will be much, much, easier for you to either start as a university student or as a tourist visa. That will then help you document your relationship, which will make future visas easier..."
posted by coffeecat at 9:16 AM on January 5, 2023 [6 favorites]


Just to reiterate the visa issue: I personally know two separate people that received multi-year entry bans for what they perceived to be minor hiccups in their immigration process. Both had already started to build their lives in the US before one day arriving at the border and being told they’re not being allowed in, will be deported immediately, will be barred for years, and no we don’t care what this means for your career, lease, personal relationships, family, or possessions. You can call people once you’re back in Belarus, enjoy your flight, goodbye. This is a real thing that can happen.

It was bad. Like, life-wrecking. One managed to recover, the other is basically still fucked lo these years later (the recent war definitely hasn’t helped of course; he pretty much just sits in his apartment terrified to go out lest squatters move in and take this one last thing from him).
posted by aramaic at 9:37 AM on January 5, 2023 [10 favorites]


Expense is clearly a significant issue here. One thing you can do is start some savings for a bailout trip home if that becomes necessary, or for a trip to visit if they are wildly happy, or for her loved one to visit your country.

If you could let the mods post the 2 countries, that would help people give better advice. If someone wants to visit a country, they may be asked about their return ticket, need a visa that will have an end point. Lots of countries do not recognize same-sex marriage, so that may not be a pathway to visit and potentially stay. The US has complicated visa requirements and is pissy about people visiting because they fell in love, and this is based on anecdata. I have no expertise in this matter.

Help her find a job, especially one that might give her skills desirable in the new country. They probably have a website that talks about how to immigrate, or discourages such behavior. Help her finish the basic level of education where you are, and encourage her to continue getting educated; for most countries, education is an aid to immigration. Help her set up a savings account for her project. Help her research the legal and visa requirements. Research the culture, economics, geography, politics of the new country; that can be a good way to maintain your bond despite your concerns, as well as address some of your concerns.

In my country, the US, she's a legal adult, able to make her own decisions. The part that helps her stay safer is learning as much as possible and having a healthy relationship with you in case she needs you in any circumstance. Model an open and curious mind. Reassure her that you love her and will support her, but that, as a parent, you're being cautious.
posted by theora55 at 9:41 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


I was your daughter once. I did move across the world to be with my love. About six months in, the day came when I wanted to leave the relationship. My partner and I had got into a really stupid fight about how I was wasting too much milk by making my coffee so light. I couldn't believe I was getting yelled at for putting milk in my coffee but that's exactly what was happening. I wanted to laugh and nope out of the relationship right that second. I wanted to yell "fuck off" and storm out. I wanted to never say a word and just pack up and leave, because that's how much disdain I had for my partner's behavior. But I had no way to leave. I didn't have a work visa in the country I had moved to, nor did I know anyone at all, I had no help and no community, and I was 100% financially dependent on my partner.

When I had first started chatting online with my partner, my parents had flown into a rage and threatened to kick me out of their home if I continued to keep in touch with this person. I just hid my relationship from them and continued. Later, when I let the secret slip, my parents had blown their top, called me names, thrown me out of their house, and told me I was dead to the whole extended family too, not just to them. So when I wanted to leave my partner, moving back home was never an option. Actually my parents had started talking to me again by the time I wanted to leave my partner, but I did not trust my parents AT ALL. They had become the last people on earth I would turn to for help.

So I didn't leave. I stayed in a relationship that steadily became more and more and more abusive, slowly but surely, over the next eleven years. By the time I left, my parents had completely chilled out and calmed down and become supportive of me and my life choices, and yet, I never told them I was leaving. Never turned to them for help or counsel. I announced to them that my marriage was over only after I had moved out and set up my new apartment, after I had already got a lawyer to negotiate a custody sharing agreement and a separation agreement. In other words, my parents were literally the last people to find out that my marriage was over, and they were the only people I never asked for help doing the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. To this day, even though my parents were stunningly supportive of my divorce decision after I told them, even though my parents have proven to me again and again that they have changed, I cannot imagine ever turning to them for help. The day they threw me out of their house "for my own good" twenty years ago was the day they stopped counting as real family to me.

Do not be my parents. The most important thing you can do for your daughter is to strengthen your relationship with her, in the sense that SHE feels close with you and supported by you and trusts you completely. It's not your job to stop her from making her own mistakes. It's your job to ensure that she is able to ask you for help after making those mistakes. Don't lose her trust.
posted by MiraK at 9:47 AM on January 5, 2023 [52 favorites]


Put together a communication plan with her, with the understanding you're going to make it awkward for everyone if she misses a check-in. Tell her to be exceptionally careful about violating any laws in the place she is going to, even if her girlfriend says it's okay. Tell her that if anything feels wrong or she feels like she needs to get out, you'll help her figure that out. Wish her luck. Try to mean it.

You can ask her, once, if she's got everything she needs to do the legal work to stay longer than an allowed vacation. If her reply isn't to ask for your help, you just have to leave it. You can tell her that you're really worried about the logistics of the situation but you support her right to give it a shot

Start setting aside money to fly her home. Some countries won't even let you in with a one-way ticket, so she may be home a whole lot sooner than you think, after a somewhat harrowing experience.

This is almost certainly going to be at least a partially unpleasant life experience. I am from the generation that invented internet romances (and wrote about it online) and the results are a mixed bag - some still together, some divorces, some failed attempts, some that were over pretty much instantly. The international ones were largely painstakingly careful about not fucking up immigration, but that meant it was incredibly difficult overall to proceed through the various stages of the relationship.

The chances of this being more physically dangerous than a two-week vacation are fairly slim. The chances of this being an unpleasant meeting with the real world and the complexity of relationships is pretty high. It's hard to watch your kid run at full speed toward a brick wall, knowing the chance they're going to jump it is slim. But you just have to, as hard as it is.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:45 AM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


People who have recently fallen in love are not rational. And teenagers are barely rational on a good day. She's almost certainly going to go through with her plan whether you like it or not.

My advice is to stop arguing and lecturing her about it. You want her to feel like she can call you for help if/when it doesn't work out, instead of staying in a bad situation just to avoid you gloating about how you told her so

Don't do anything to enable her move. She has to figure out passports, work visas, etc. on her own. If she can't then she may not even get admitted into the country.

Set aside the money to buy her an emergency plane ticket home should it become necessary but don't tell her about that money in advance. Just tell her that you hope it works out but if it doesn't that she can always come home.

If/when things go badly, hold firm to the position that you will pay for her to come home but you won't send her money to stay there.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:35 PM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


You might also consider doing some networking and long-distance friend-making of your own so that if/when your daughter actually pulls it off, you have a few responsible older adult acquaintances near where your daughter will be. Just whatever your hobbies and interests already are, get involved in online groups for those and get in the habit of asking where people are from and then making extra effort to interact with the ones in the area your daughter wants to move to.

Like I'm acquainted with a guy via a national campaign we both worked on in 2020 and we're still Facebook friends but that's the extent of our relationship. His daughter happens to be going to college in my hometown, which I recently moved back to. If he told me that his daughter was in an abusive relationship and asked me to go get her while he arranged for a plane ticket home then I would do it no problem even though he's just an online acquaintance. I'm not even a particularly outgoing person who likes doing favors for people, that's just what any decent person would do in that situation.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:14 PM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]


Why (and how?) do that when this is posted anonymous?

Mods can anonymize posts after they are posted or delete details from them if the OP requests it.

My guess is that OP was not comfortable with people discussing their location, so we should drop it.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:39 PM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]


OP may not want people to know their location, but at bare minimum, knowing the country her kid wants to emigrate to would be a great help here so people can look up the legalities, how LGBTQ-friendly the country is, is it even possible for an 18-year-old girl to emigrate for love of another 18-year-old girl there, etc.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:32 PM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


Pondering on visas and less all-in options and all that, many countries have youth visas for work with Europe being flooded each year with antpodeans and the us and Australia being swarmed by the Irish on J1 visas and what have you.

They could spend a summer/year living in the same third-party country with the aim of making moving in money. Or save up and go inter-railing together, see some of Europe before all their money goes to visits home for the one or other.
posted by Iteki at 4:42 PM on January 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


It's not clear to me exactly what kind of advice or feedback you're looking for, so I'll just share a few thoughts and hope you find them helpful.

I left home and moved across the country when I was 17 to go to college, and (many years later) moved to a different country because of the woman who later became my wife. And like your daughter, I love a good spreadsheet. So that probably gives me both experience and a certain bias here.

When you say your daughter is neurodivergent I'm assuming she is still able to live independently as an adult (to the standard of a student living in the dorms or with housemates, not like super-organized housekeeping and cooking gourmet meals every day). If that is not the case I think you have a different level of responsibility to intervene here. Otherwise, well, she has a start on basic adulting and plenty of neurodivergent people visit countries and meet people from the internet.

I don't think you need to fund this trip, and I definitely don't think you should accompany her on it yourself. If she is able to earn the money for her plane fare, consider (only if it's financially comfortable for you) upgrading the ticket to a fully flexible/refundable fare and funding a travel health insurance policy, as a gift and for everyone's peace of mind.

I think you should discuss with her how she would plan to handle some common travel glitches and emergency scenarios, as well as her ideas for how she might stay legally in Other Country more permanently. If her plan is just to show up with a suitcase and drop off the grid, feel free to flag that as a terrible idea. Definitely push back on getting only a one-way ticket. I also suggest you review visa and travel document requirements with her, especially if she has limited international travel experience. Other replies have noted how complicated visa policies can be and plenty of adults with more life experience screw this stuff up all the time.

But otherwise... If your fear is really about your daughter leaving home and moving far away, I hope you can find it in yourself to be open to her exploring and growing as an independent young adult.

One of the things I appreciate most about my parents was how they supported me in exploring new things and new places. By "support" I don't mean that they paid for everything or went over every detail with me in advance. It was largely on me to figure logistics out for myself. I mean that they were open to me moving away, traveling, forming relationships and breaking them off, and generally finding my own way. I also knew that I could trust them to help me if I ever got into really serious trouble. That in turn meant that I tended to respect their advice on the (rare) occasions they strongly objected to something. And in the end, I don't regret moving far from home for a while or any of the places I traveled to. I took some risks, I didn't love every place I found myself in and some of the relationships sure were better than others, but that's life. It gave me experience and confidence. I moved back home later. I found my life partner even later than that. It worked out okay.
posted by 4rtemis at 5:19 PM on January 5, 2023 [2 favorites]


« Older Grant Writing School Wanted   |   Where do I buy Deemint Certs Menta in/shipped to... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.