Is there any point to my coming out?
November 24, 2022 12:53 PM Subscribe
I've finally admitted to myself that I'm queer in approaching middle age, but I may well end up in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Should I say anything, or not, or ... ?
To make a long story short, I didn't feel like I deserved to "take up space" by coming out. I am attracted to women as well as men and to other people of all genders. I knew this all my life, but I thought: if I didn't definitely know I wasn't going to marry a man or have a baby, why should I talk about it? People think that bisexual women are either desperate or they're human carnival rides. I am neither, and I know that's bullshit but I also don't want to deal with it.
My sexuality is very private and monogamous. I don't mean to be phobic here! It is okay that other people are different! I just feel like I don't share a lot of the same desires or concerns that I see in online queer spaces. Again, I don't want to condemn those things. I'm just not somebody I see reflected there.
I always used to tell myself that I could come out if and when I had a girlfriend, and I know that my closest loved ones would accept that gladly. Without that, it would just be TMI at best and family shit-stirring at worst. But as right-wingers try to push the Overton window back towards anti-gay violence, I feel like it's important for "non-political" people to understand that they know queer people, and my coming out could be part of that.
Then, too, I could, you know, just meet people, and meet people that they know, and something could happen, and it would be great. What do you do, in this day and age?
To make a long story short, I didn't feel like I deserved to "take up space" by coming out. I am attracted to women as well as men and to other people of all genders. I knew this all my life, but I thought: if I didn't definitely know I wasn't going to marry a man or have a baby, why should I talk about it? People think that bisexual women are either desperate or they're human carnival rides. I am neither, and I know that's bullshit but I also don't want to deal with it.
My sexuality is very private and monogamous. I don't mean to be phobic here! It is okay that other people are different! I just feel like I don't share a lot of the same desires or concerns that I see in online queer spaces. Again, I don't want to condemn those things. I'm just not somebody I see reflected there.
I always used to tell myself that I could come out if and when I had a girlfriend, and I know that my closest loved ones would accept that gladly. Without that, it would just be TMI at best and family shit-stirring at worst. But as right-wingers try to push the Overton window back towards anti-gay violence, I feel like it's important for "non-political" people to understand that they know queer people, and my coming out could be part of that.
Then, too, I could, you know, just meet people, and meet people that they know, and something could happen, and it would be great. What do you do, in this day and age?
You are welcome in queer spaces ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Whether you decide to come out publicly or not, you are not taking up space by being in a community in which you belong. Even if you eventually end up in a straight appearing relationship, you will still be welcome and still belong. And a LOT of people in queer community are both private and monogamous. It’s one of the reasons for the umbrella of “queer” - you don’t have to tell anyone anything about your sex life that you don’t want to.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:35 PM on November 24, 2022 [21 favorites]
Whether you decide to come out publicly or not, you are not taking up space by being in a community in which you belong. Even if you eventually end up in a straight appearing relationship, you will still be welcome and still belong. And a LOT of people in queer community are both private and monogamous. It’s one of the reasons for the umbrella of “queer” - you don’t have to tell anyone anything about your sex life that you don’t want to.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:35 PM on November 24, 2022 [21 favorites]
The wonderful queer journalist V Spehar in the wake of the events this past week said something to the effect of, regardless of your disclosure status in the community, please remember that you are loved and worthy of love. I thought that was pretty terrific. (If you're not yet following V Spehar, please consider doing so.)
posted by mochapickle at 1:46 PM on November 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 1:46 PM on November 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
It’s not clear from the question if you are in a long term relationship with a man, or just expect to be. If you’re single and interested in dating women, this seems like a no-brainer. If you are in a monogamous het relationship, then it really is a question of what you hope to achieve.
Like you, I am bi and monogamous and private. I dated some women but mostly men and ended up with a man. Personally my close friends know, and a lot of them are queer themselves, but I don’t make a big deal of letting everyone know because it just doesn’t feel like important information at this point. Like, I have to acknowledge that I am living a life functionally the same as a straight woman, and I really don’t speak for the queer community. I never told my family either because I never had a serious girlfriend and it just didn’t feel necessary to me.
That’s just me, though. There is no rulebook around this! You can tell or not tell whoever you want.
posted by vanitas at 1:46 PM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
Like you, I am bi and monogamous and private. I dated some women but mostly men and ended up with a man. Personally my close friends know, and a lot of them are queer themselves, but I don’t make a big deal of letting everyone know because it just doesn’t feel like important information at this point. Like, I have to acknowledge that I am living a life functionally the same as a straight woman, and I really don’t speak for the queer community. I never told my family either because I never had a serious girlfriend and it just didn’t feel necessary to me.
That’s just me, though. There is no rulebook around this! You can tell or not tell whoever you want.
posted by vanitas at 1:46 PM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
For me, it was really meaningful to go through the process of embracing the label of queer even though I am in a het-looking monogamous marriage, because it's about my perspective and values. The specific identity of who you might past/present/future/imagine fucking/being romantic with/partnering with is one (optional!) facet of queerness, but there is a lot more to it than that.
You are not taking up a spot that should go to someone more deserving; there is room for all of us. I do personally consider that because of my various privileges my position in questions of security should be on the outer edges, using my privilege as a shield - there are times when one's perceived right to demand to speak to a manager can be used for good, or at least good trouble.
Coming out isn't a one-and-done for most people, and you get to decide in what ways you do or don't wish to make a point of it, and all decisions are valid. I don't lead with it, but I also correct people if they mistake me for something I'm not - especially if they think I share their shitty values because of what they've mistaken me to be.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:18 PM on November 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
You are not taking up a spot that should go to someone more deserving; there is room for all of us. I do personally consider that because of my various privileges my position in questions of security should be on the outer edges, using my privilege as a shield - there are times when one's perceived right to demand to speak to a manager can be used for good, or at least good trouble.
Coming out isn't a one-and-done for most people, and you get to decide in what ways you do or don't wish to make a point of it, and all decisions are valid. I don't lead with it, but I also correct people if they mistake me for something I'm not - especially if they think I share their shitty values because of what they've mistaken me to be.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:18 PM on November 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
I will say, I think it's important for your actual partners to be validating and accepting, and I do think you should be clear about your identity - and those perspectives and values - with them because having a non-understanding or homophobic partner, or living like you have to stuff one part of your identity down into a dark drawer to make them comfortable, is a shitty way to live. Don't date awful people of any gender or orientation.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:22 PM on November 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 2:22 PM on November 24, 2022 [14 favorites]
Theres is so many different ways to be queer and none of them are the correct way. Some people make it very clear and some people never say a word, but both area okay and do not change who you are.
At least from where I sit, I feel like people have broken down bi stereotypes alot, but only you know your social network, friends and family and what that means to you.
As for coming out as a message to others, if you want to, that's okay. I find that my out queer existence hasn't really impacted my day to day interaction with people . I do find people can be weirdly centering if parts of my identity in strange ways, but not in a way in which those people have found my experience thought provoking.
I think though one of the things being open to dating queer is that it really helps other people to know you are interested if you are. Honestly I wouldn't spend my time flirting with a cis looking woman who said she was straight, that's not my type. If that's the impression you are giving, you may be unintentionally limiting your dating circle because potential partners don't know.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:24 PM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
At least from where I sit, I feel like people have broken down bi stereotypes alot, but only you know your social network, friends and family and what that means to you.
As for coming out as a message to others, if you want to, that's okay. I find that my out queer existence hasn't really impacted my day to day interaction with people . I do find people can be weirdly centering if parts of my identity in strange ways, but not in a way in which those people have found my experience thought provoking.
I think though one of the things being open to dating queer is that it really helps other people to know you are interested if you are. Honestly I wouldn't spend my time flirting with a cis looking woman who said she was straight, that's not my type. If that's the impression you are giving, you may be unintentionally limiting your dating circle because potential partners don't know.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:24 PM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I (cis woman in her 40s) chose the middle ground -- not making any grand pronouncement of anything but also not hiding it if/when it comes up. I've been in a loving, stable relationship with a man for a while now and it's been that relationship that has made me more comfortable embracing all sides of my sexuality, including my attraction to women and other genders (this has always been present in my life but I've always kind of fought it/denied it/handwaved it away).
(Not for nothing, though, I've always felt accepted and comfortable in queer spaces -- I was the "straight girl" among my high school friends, for instance, and formally coming out to the people I tend to socialize with would mostly be met with a shrug.)
This may or may work for you (or be something you wanted to do) but I started wearing a few pins with the bisexual flag colors (which is prominently how I identify) because it was a way to celebrate my journey but I also didn't have to have a verbal conversation about it. I found it to be a good compromise when it came to not hiding who I was but also maintaining a certain level of privacy.
As others have said, there's not a right or wrong answer here. Good luck to you and just know you're not alone.
posted by edencosmic at 2:29 PM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Not for nothing, though, I've always felt accepted and comfortable in queer spaces -- I was the "straight girl" among my high school friends, for instance, and formally coming out to the people I tend to socialize with would mostly be met with a shrug.)
This may or may work for you (or be something you wanted to do) but I started wearing a few pins with the bisexual flag colors (which is prominently how I identify) because it was a way to celebrate my journey but I also didn't have to have a verbal conversation about it. I found it to be a good compromise when it came to not hiding who I was but also maintaining a certain level of privacy.
As others have said, there's not a right or wrong answer here. Good luck to you and just know you're not alone.
posted by edencosmic at 2:29 PM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am a bi/pan woman in a hetero marriage and I feel your concerns SO.MUCH. I also worry about taking up space that is somehow reserved for "queerer" people and that somehow my claims might be performative. But I do believe that in fact our presence on the queer spectrum is necessary and we can be strong allies. So I guess I'm saying don't let someone else put you in a box. You're here you're queer welcome and we love you.
posted by supermedusa at 2:32 PM on November 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 2:32 PM on November 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
You don’t owe anything to anyone when it comes to being out or public about your sexuality. That said, your question reads as really sad. Diminished, unloving of yourself, reticent. Nobody deserves to feel that way about something like the kinds of people they are or are not attracted to. I think that, as you move through life, choosing to share this part of yourself with people in a way that centers on your happiness and personal fulfillment is a good goal, even if the actual sharing is somewhat stressful.
For what it’s worth I am also a lowkey bisexual who identifies most with the label queer. I literally thought my family knew for years until I was in my early thirties, mentioned a woman I had a crush on during a phone call with my mom, and she replied after a pause with “so you’re being a lesbian now?” and I was like “ummmmm??.??? I’ve never used gendered pronouns when talking about hypothetical partners, like, ever???” In retrospect, hilarious. But I knew my family would be accepting because we’re all very weird people on many axes. If I had a homophobic nuclear family I would have made very different choices.
Just because we are autonomous adults doesn’t mean our families can’t hurt us, and you have no obligation to anyone but yourself when it comes to sharing things you’re feeling vulnerable about. I never told either of my grandmothers I was queer, for example. And I femme it up like crazy when I’m visiting my extended family in Texas. But I was fine with my parents talking about my queerness with my extended family, because it isn’t a secret for me. If it’s a secret for you, that’s okay too, just like it’s fine if you decide to share that secret in the future.
Start small. Read up on queer history, check the non discrimination policies of your workplace. Look for events during pride month that are chill, like gallery art shows, library events, family friendly pride charity events. Look for rainbow stickers and different pride flags hung up in shop windows and patronize them, be around other people in places that are welcoming to queer folks. If you’re on dating apps, label yourself in a way that opens you up to the people you want to be with, even if you don’t specify in your profile. Follow queer artists and creators. Maybe put a little bisexual flag sticker on a water bottle or your laptop, get a fridge magnet. Normalize it for yourself.
Coming out isn’t a thing that you do once and you’re done. It’s a series of interactions over your whole life, especially if you’re like us, a stealth queer ;) so you get to practice a bunch of times. Start with yourself. Come out to someone you know is accepting but isn’t very close to you so it’s no huge deal if the interaction goes poorly. Come out to a friend. Mention queer issues to your family. Come out to the family member who is most understanding of these issues. And so on and so on, until it’s just another thing about you, like your favorite pie flavor and your taste in films.
posted by Mizu at 3:35 PM on November 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
For what it’s worth I am also a lowkey bisexual who identifies most with the label queer. I literally thought my family knew for years until I was in my early thirties, mentioned a woman I had a crush on during a phone call with my mom, and she replied after a pause with “so you’re being a lesbian now?” and I was like “ummmmm??.??? I’ve never used gendered pronouns when talking about hypothetical partners, like, ever???” In retrospect, hilarious. But I knew my family would be accepting because we’re all very weird people on many axes. If I had a homophobic nuclear family I would have made very different choices.
Just because we are autonomous adults doesn’t mean our families can’t hurt us, and you have no obligation to anyone but yourself when it comes to sharing things you’re feeling vulnerable about. I never told either of my grandmothers I was queer, for example. And I femme it up like crazy when I’m visiting my extended family in Texas. But I was fine with my parents talking about my queerness with my extended family, because it isn’t a secret for me. If it’s a secret for you, that’s okay too, just like it’s fine if you decide to share that secret in the future.
Start small. Read up on queer history, check the non discrimination policies of your workplace. Look for events during pride month that are chill, like gallery art shows, library events, family friendly pride charity events. Look for rainbow stickers and different pride flags hung up in shop windows and patronize them, be around other people in places that are welcoming to queer folks. If you’re on dating apps, label yourself in a way that opens you up to the people you want to be with, even if you don’t specify in your profile. Follow queer artists and creators. Maybe put a little bisexual flag sticker on a water bottle or your laptop, get a fridge magnet. Normalize it for yourself.
Coming out isn’t a thing that you do once and you’re done. It’s a series of interactions over your whole life, especially if you’re like us, a stealth queer ;) so you get to practice a bunch of times. Start with yourself. Come out to someone you know is accepting but isn’t very close to you so it’s no huge deal if the interaction goes poorly. Come out to a friend. Mention queer issues to your family. Come out to the family member who is most understanding of these issues. And so on and so on, until it’s just another thing about you, like your favorite pie flavor and your taste in films.
posted by Mizu at 3:35 PM on November 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
It's a funny thing about bisexuality - when a bi person wonders if they count, or feels a bit confused about how to handle their orientation, or is somewhat concerned about potential reactions from other people - that is a queer experience. We also tend to realize our orientation later in life than gay and lesbian people, and we tend to come out later in life. Your question is shared by many of us at various points in our lives.
Here's a relevant answer I wrote for a similar question a few months ago.
posted by dreamyshade at 5:11 PM on November 24, 2022 [20 favorites]
Here's a relevant answer I wrote for a similar question a few months ago.
posted by dreamyshade at 5:11 PM on November 24, 2022 [20 favorites]
It's a funny thing about bisexuality - when a bi person wonders if they count, or feels a bit confused about how to handle their orientation, or is somewhat concerned about potential reactions from other people - that is a queer experience.
Oh.
OH.
Holy shit.
That was so eye-opening that I literally opened my eyes wider when I read it. Thank you.
posted by jesourie at 7:22 PM on November 24, 2022 [19 favorites]
Oh.
OH.
Holy shit.
That was so eye-opening that I literally opened my eyes wider when I read it. Thank you.
posted by jesourie at 7:22 PM on November 24, 2022 [19 favorites]
A benefit of coming out, if you are actively interested in dating people other than men, is to signal your potential availability to those people. It also may make you more appealing to those partners; a lot of people don't want to deal with the potential drama surrounding someone's coming out and prefer to date people who seem more comfortable and open about their orientation.
posted by metasarah at 7:33 PM on November 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 7:33 PM on November 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I love the label queer because to me it means looking critically at the relationship and gender patterns we’re told to adhere to, and rewriting them, in lots of different ways. I don’t “seem queer” to many people’s eye - I’m in a monogamous hetero partnership and I look like I fit the gender binary to many people’s guess. But I know who I am, who I’ve dated, and how I see my own sexuality and gender, and queer is the right label for me. (I wrote more about it here)
Because I “look straight” I benefit from quite a bit of straight privilege and I’m not frequently targeted with homophobia and not at all for transphobia. So I have a less oppressed queer existence than many people, and with that in mind, I’m very cautious about taking up space in queer spaces - for instance I don’t think I should usually be the one doing the most talking. But, at the same time, it’s ok for me to take space in queer spaces, because I am queer and the way I’m queer is valid and acceptable. Maybe that distinction is helpful for you too?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 7:44 PM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
Because I “look straight” I benefit from quite a bit of straight privilege and I’m not frequently targeted with homophobia and not at all for transphobia. So I have a less oppressed queer existence than many people, and with that in mind, I’m very cautious about taking up space in queer spaces - for instance I don’t think I should usually be the one doing the most talking. But, at the same time, it’s ok for me to take space in queer spaces, because I am queer and the way I’m queer is valid and acceptable. Maybe that distinction is helpful for you too?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 7:44 PM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
I wish I said more about my own queerness! I am fairly certain (as of a year and a half ago) that I am a binary trans woman and have chosen not to transition for a variety of reasons. I know that my friends would be accepting and I have not said anything. While my identity is important to me, I don’t want to rock the boat or really be a representative of anything because in the end I still look like a cis white guy and I feel like I’m doing some kind of appropriative cosplay. It’s lonely and while I logically know that coming out would be helpful to me personally and probably a net positive for my friends (they get to know me better and it shows more queer representation!) it’s still so scary. I am wishing for you to have the strength to come out (if you want) that I do not have!
posted by Brassica oleracea at 10:37 PM on November 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Brassica oleracea at 10:37 PM on November 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’ve been where you are, it’s really weirdly common and hi! Welcome, things get much much better on the other side. Definitely come out BEFORE you get a girlfriend, in the sense that the very very first person you tell that you’re queer should ***not*** be a person you’re interested in dating. That puts you in way too vulnerable of a position and is a recipe for disaster. Practice telling people you trust: a therapist if you have one, then a handful of close friends. After you’ve done that, go to a couple of meetups or activist spaces or whatever and practice introducing yourself as queer to people for whom it’s no big deal. Once you’ve done that, I’d say you’re out enough to date, should the opportunity present itself. Go slow, and resist the temptation to process all your evolving feelings about identity with your partner: that’s a job for you and your inner circle. That first relationship probably won’t work out—most relationships don’t!—and having too much of your queerness bound up in a relationship with a single person isn’t healthy.
Or, you know, just go wild and make out with a stranger and see what happens! That’s what most people do and we generally survive it— I can’t really recommend it but it’d be silly to pretend that isn’t mostly how it goes down.
If by “coming out” you mean making a post on social media announcing that you’re queer to everyone you know: no, don’t do that. Protect your heart! You are vulnerable and precious and this is information that should be shared first with people that you trust. You don’t owe this to anyone, it’s something you do for you, to make your life vibrant and joyful and true. Good luck! I am excited for you.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 5:47 AM on November 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Or, you know, just go wild and make out with a stranger and see what happens! That’s what most people do and we generally survive it— I can’t really recommend it but it’d be silly to pretend that isn’t mostly how it goes down.
If by “coming out” you mean making a post on social media announcing that you’re queer to everyone you know: no, don’t do that. Protect your heart! You are vulnerable and precious and this is information that should be shared first with people that you trust. You don’t owe this to anyone, it’s something you do for you, to make your life vibrant and joyful and true. Good luck! I am excited for you.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 5:47 AM on November 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am an oldster, a cis woman who realized late in life, after a long marriage to a man, that I am bi or pansexual or some related thing. For many reasons, I do not expect to date anymore. Even so, when I am leading one particular unorthodox, faux 12-step meeting, I mention that I am a bisexual, kinky, solo-poly person. I do that to make the idea of kink, the idea of poly, and the idea of bisexuality or pansexuality obvious. I announce this stuff as a way of making it seen and to make it super clear that I am these things, which means that other people who may not be in the room are also one or more of these things.
Naturally, nobody in that meeting needs to know this stuff. But I share the info while explaining that everyone is welcome to the meeting exactly as they are. (I was shocked by the number of people who reached out to me privately to say that they were some flavour of poly.) My coming out, specially in this way and in this meeting, has been warmly welcomed by the group and I appreciate it.
Anyway, my kid and my closest friends know how I identify and so do the members of the big city lesbian book group, with whom I meet up periodically. Somehow, telling a few people feels like showing up for myself. It feels like allowing myself to be known in a more authentic way, a way that feels nourishing to me. I have never formally come out in any way apart telling my dad before he died because I just wanted him to know. (He was somewhat skeptical.)
Mind you, I don't have a sex life to speak of but this is not about sex. As a former straight person, this part was unclear to me for a long time. I thought it was about sex, but it is actually just about who I am rather than about any partner(s). I somehow did not realize until my 50s that I was attracted to women. I grew up in a fundamentalist church that pretty much ruined my sex life as a straight gal. For the longest time, it never occurred to me that being anything but straight was an option. Until I realized that I am not straight.
Because I live in a small town with virtually no public or easily accessible queer culture for adults, I don't have any queer friends nearby. But I have had queer friends my entire adult life, and I am not like my lesbian pals nor my gay pals. Virtually all of them knew they were not straight from a young age. I met another bisexual woman a couple of times, quite a bit younger than me. She also figured out her identity early on.
That was not me. I am my own thing, and I am finally (finally) mostly cool with that. So come out or don't come out or do it gradually. Whatever you choose, strive to stop comparing yourself with other queer people or other people just generally because that path leads to misery.
Finally, quoted for truth: "I’m very cautious about taking up space in queer spaces - for instance I don’t think I should usually be the one doing the most talking. But, at the same time, it’s ok for me to take space in queer spaces, because I am queer and the way I’m queer is valid and acceptable."
posted by Bella Donna at 6:22 AM on November 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
Naturally, nobody in that meeting needs to know this stuff. But I share the info while explaining that everyone is welcome to the meeting exactly as they are. (I was shocked by the number of people who reached out to me privately to say that they were some flavour of poly.) My coming out, specially in this way and in this meeting, has been warmly welcomed by the group and I appreciate it.
Anyway, my kid and my closest friends know how I identify and so do the members of the big city lesbian book group, with whom I meet up periodically. Somehow, telling a few people feels like showing up for myself. It feels like allowing myself to be known in a more authentic way, a way that feels nourishing to me. I have never formally come out in any way apart telling my dad before he died because I just wanted him to know. (He was somewhat skeptical.)
Mind you, I don't have a sex life to speak of but this is not about sex. As a former straight person, this part was unclear to me for a long time. I thought it was about sex, but it is actually just about who I am rather than about any partner(s). I somehow did not realize until my 50s that I was attracted to women. I grew up in a fundamentalist church that pretty much ruined my sex life as a straight gal. For the longest time, it never occurred to me that being anything but straight was an option. Until I realized that I am not straight.
Because I live in a small town with virtually no public or easily accessible queer culture for adults, I don't have any queer friends nearby. But I have had queer friends my entire adult life, and I am not like my lesbian pals nor my gay pals. Virtually all of them knew they were not straight from a young age. I met another bisexual woman a couple of times, quite a bit younger than me. She also figured out her identity early on.
That was not me. I am my own thing, and I am finally (finally) mostly cool with that. So come out or don't come out or do it gradually. Whatever you choose, strive to stop comparing yourself with other queer people or other people just generally because that path leads to misery.
Finally, quoted for truth: "I’m very cautious about taking up space in queer spaces - for instance I don’t think I should usually be the one doing the most talking. But, at the same time, it’s ok for me to take space in queer spaces, because I am queer and the way I’m queer is valid and acceptable."
posted by Bella Donna at 6:22 AM on November 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm just not somebody I see reflected there.
Oh man, I feel you. That is partly why I speak up on the few occasions when I do. So that folks who maybe feel alone at least know there are other outliers around, too. Thanks for your question!
posted by Bella Donna at 7:22 AM on November 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh man, I feel you. That is partly why I speak up on the few occasions when I do. So that folks who maybe feel alone at least know there are other outliers around, too. Thanks for your question!
posted by Bella Donna at 7:22 AM on November 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
People think that bisexual women are either desperate or they're human carnival rides.
If there are specific people in your real actual life who think this, you will be happier distancing yourself from those people, whether or not you ever come out. People who would look down on you if they knew you better are not good friends to have.
If there aren't specific people in your life who think this, you will be happier if you stop agonizing over hypothetical strangers, whether or not you ever come out. Speculating about people who might look down on you if you ever met them is not a good use of your time.
Focus your time and energy on real people who deserve to know you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:24 AM on November 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
If there are specific people in your real actual life who think this, you will be happier distancing yourself from those people, whether or not you ever come out. People who would look down on you if they knew you better are not good friends to have.
If there aren't specific people in your life who think this, you will be happier if you stop agonizing over hypothetical strangers, whether or not you ever come out. Speculating about people who might look down on you if you ever met them is not a good use of your time.
Focus your time and energy on real people who deserve to know you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:24 AM on November 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
So, you can actually just "be" out instead of "coming" out. (Even though there is no real detour around having a hundred little coming-out moments if you have previously identified as, or people have perceived you as, straight.)
But, I would really recommend some self-work around the idea of being too private a person to be out, wanting a meaningful relationship to "earn" being out, etc. I thought those things about myself too, but it turned out underneath that I was also just scared of all the same normal things that scare anyone about becoming an out queer person.
Also, it can be hard to truly suss out who you are without giving yourself permission to be out as a queer person. Without casting *any* aspersions on the many many people who actually shake out to be bi, there are also a lot of people that first identify as bi to themselves who become less and less opposite-sex-attracted the more comfortable they get being out (ask me how I know). I'm not saying that's you! But it's hard to know from within the subtly suffocating binds of closetude. Good luck with whatever you do next! <3
posted by dusty potato at 7:51 AM on November 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
But, I would really recommend some self-work around the idea of being too private a person to be out, wanting a meaningful relationship to "earn" being out, etc. I thought those things about myself too, but it turned out underneath that I was also just scared of all the same normal things that scare anyone about becoming an out queer person.
Also, it can be hard to truly suss out who you are without giving yourself permission to be out as a queer person. Without casting *any* aspersions on the many many people who actually shake out to be bi, there are also a lot of people that first identify as bi to themselves who become less and less opposite-sex-attracted the more comfortable they get being out (ask me how I know). I'm not saying that's you! But it's hard to know from within the subtly suffocating binds of closetude. Good luck with whatever you do next! <3
posted by dusty potato at 7:51 AM on November 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
So, I’m cis, in my forties, in a long term relationship with my now-husband. But I’m bi, have known this for over two decades, and am mostly not out (though as for others above, I doubt it would be much of a surprise). I’ve also long felt that I shouldn’t take up space others may have more need of.
Recently though I’ve had a couple experiences that may have changed my mind. First, I got married. Being a cis woman marrying a man meant that everyone made *so many* stupid assumptions about gender roles, even for little things like which one of us walked down the aisle first. So much gendered bullshit. Yeah, I am cis, but my idea of being a woman (marrying a man) definitely doesn’t quite match up with that of the wedding industrial complex. We did things in our own way, matching tradition when it suited and not when it didn’t, but I was very surprised by all the little times I had to stand up for what I wanted, what my husband wanted, when it didn’t match some stupid gendered assumption. And I was even more surprised by how much this process was emotional, I didn’t expect to find such strong feelings when someone else made a wrong assumption based on my gender and perceived heterosexuality.
So, the second, much more recent experience. Post-pandemic, I wanted to cut my hair short again. But my prior hairstylist was no longer working so I had to find someone new. After a strikeout or two, I finally used the links in th comments of this metafilter post. I found a place that markets itself as explicitly queer friendly. I got a great haircut, which is nice, but nicer was the fact that the stylist was so welcoming. They understood the haircut I wanted, understood that I was just done with overly feminized salons, and told me about some other queer spaces I might be welcome in. It was just pleasant.
I haven’t felt that at home getting a haircut since the hairstylist I had fifteen years ago who eventually quit to go back to college for astronomy (I’m a physicist, we bonded over black holes).
Anyhow upshot is I think you might try something similar for yourself. Find a service you need where the usual cis-hetero assumptions don’t fit right, and look for a version that fits. You’re supporting queer community with your dollars, and supporting the whole of yourself.
posted by nat at 8:06 AM on November 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
Recently though I’ve had a couple experiences that may have changed my mind. First, I got married. Being a cis woman marrying a man meant that everyone made *so many* stupid assumptions about gender roles, even for little things like which one of us walked down the aisle first. So much gendered bullshit. Yeah, I am cis, but my idea of being a woman (marrying a man) definitely doesn’t quite match up with that of the wedding industrial complex. We did things in our own way, matching tradition when it suited and not when it didn’t, but I was very surprised by all the little times I had to stand up for what I wanted, what my husband wanted, when it didn’t match some stupid gendered assumption. And I was even more surprised by how much this process was emotional, I didn’t expect to find such strong feelings when someone else made a wrong assumption based on my gender and perceived heterosexuality.
So, the second, much more recent experience. Post-pandemic, I wanted to cut my hair short again. But my prior hairstylist was no longer working so I had to find someone new. After a strikeout or two, I finally used the links in th comments of this metafilter post. I found a place that markets itself as explicitly queer friendly. I got a great haircut, which is nice, but nicer was the fact that the stylist was so welcoming. They understood the haircut I wanted, understood that I was just done with overly feminized salons, and told me about some other queer spaces I might be welcome in. It was just pleasant.
I haven’t felt that at home getting a haircut since the hairstylist I had fifteen years ago who eventually quit to go back to college for astronomy (I’m a physicist, we bonded over black holes).
Anyhow upshot is I think you might try something similar for yourself. Find a service you need where the usual cis-hetero assumptions don’t fit right, and look for a version that fits. You’re supporting queer community with your dollars, and supporting the whole of yourself.
posted by nat at 8:06 AM on November 25, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'm a middle-aged bi/pan woman who came out later in life. I was married to a man in my 20s, and now I'm verey happily married to a woman.
First, I'll reiterate what everyone has said about you having a place in queer communities. People in online communities (looking at you, reddit) can be odd sometimes, but real world queer folks are very unlikely to ask or care about your specific identity (as long as you don't try to center conversations on opposite-sex relationships). You have a place with us! Finding local queers to hang out with (I'm in a queer boardgaming group) will make a big difference in getting comfortable with your own identity.
No one should ever have to come out if they don't want to, but I would argue that if you safely can you should, for a couple reasons:
It helps the community. As you said, visibility is important. The main way we have made progress in LGBT+ rights is by showing the straight cis community that we are already here in their lives and we are not scary strangers. People are much , much more likely t support our community when they know that they are related to or friends with queer people. That said, be prepared for some people to just nod and then pretend you never said it until they see a girlfriend appear. It's frustrating but common.
It's also really the only way you will meet a queer partner. If you are interested in folks who aren't men, you are very, very unlikely to just fall into such a relationship while going about your closeted life. You need to be more proactive. And I really recommend this; I feel like it is good for bi/pan people to at least experience alternatives to straight cis relationships. It can be very different. Queer people tend not to flirt with people who are by all appearances straight. In addition to coming out, if you want to meet women to date, you need signal that you are queer (pins, haircuts, personal ads) and hang out in queer spaces. If you wait to fall into a relationship, it will probably be with a man, because of sheer numbers and because women often wait for someone else to make the first move.
And frankly, the vast majority of people don't want to try dating someone who is closeted. And a lot of people are nervous about bi folks experimenting with queerness while clinging to the safe feeling of heteronormativity. If you are open about who you are, other queer people will take you seriously.
posted by quiet wanderer at 9:50 AM on November 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
First, I'll reiterate what everyone has said about you having a place in queer communities. People in online communities (looking at you, reddit) can be odd sometimes, but real world queer folks are very unlikely to ask or care about your specific identity (as long as you don't try to center conversations on opposite-sex relationships). You have a place with us! Finding local queers to hang out with (I'm in a queer boardgaming group) will make a big difference in getting comfortable with your own identity.
No one should ever have to come out if they don't want to, but I would argue that if you safely can you should, for a couple reasons:
It helps the community. As you said, visibility is important. The main way we have made progress in LGBT+ rights is by showing the straight cis community that we are already here in their lives and we are not scary strangers. People are much , much more likely t support our community when they know that they are related to or friends with queer people. That said, be prepared for some people to just nod and then pretend you never said it until they see a girlfriend appear. It's frustrating but common.
It's also really the only way you will meet a queer partner. If you are interested in folks who aren't men, you are very, very unlikely to just fall into such a relationship while going about your closeted life. You need to be more proactive. And I really recommend this; I feel like it is good for bi/pan people to at least experience alternatives to straight cis relationships. It can be very different. Queer people tend not to flirt with people who are by all appearances straight. In addition to coming out, if you want to meet women to date, you need signal that you are queer (pins, haircuts, personal ads) and hang out in queer spaces. If you wait to fall into a relationship, it will probably be with a man, because of sheer numbers and because women often wait for someone else to make the first move.
And frankly, the vast majority of people don't want to try dating someone who is closeted. And a lot of people are nervous about bi folks experimenting with queerness while clinging to the safe feeling of heteronormativity. If you are open about who you are, other queer people will take you seriously.
posted by quiet wanderer at 9:50 AM on November 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes, I do want to second that being out - however that looks for you - will widen your dating pool. I will not date anyone closeted again, it was very emotionally painful, and I know I’m not alone in that. Having practice being out takes an emotional load off your future partner. It’s a kind and good thing to do.
I don’t think you need to make. A big pronouncement - being out is a series of small coming outs no matter what. Just start speaking up for yourself and incorporating some signaling into your life. Pins are a good way, joining bisexual groups is a good way, casually mentioning your same sex celebrity crushes, sharing autostraddle articles … I can think of a lot of ways to just say “hey I’m bi” without making an announcement. You are totally allowed to quietly live your life - just give yourself permission to live your WHOLE life instead of only the normative parts of it. Why should being bi be any more private than liking guys? That’s the same amount of information about you.
posted by Bottlecap at 12:15 PM on November 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don’t think you need to make. A big pronouncement - being out is a series of small coming outs no matter what. Just start speaking up for yourself and incorporating some signaling into your life. Pins are a good way, joining bisexual groups is a good way, casually mentioning your same sex celebrity crushes, sharing autostraddle articles … I can think of a lot of ways to just say “hey I’m bi” without making an announcement. You are totally allowed to quietly live your life - just give yourself permission to live your WHOLE life instead of only the normative parts of it. Why should being bi be any more private than liking guys? That’s the same amount of information about you.
posted by Bottlecap at 12:15 PM on November 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Coming out is always worthwhile and always important.
posted by less-of-course at 1:20 PM on November 25, 2022
posted by less-of-course at 1:20 PM on November 25, 2022
>Coming out is always worthwhile and always important.
I'm bisexual, gender-queer, and into queer theory.
To me, queerness is about embracing ambiguity, complexity, and breaking down binaries. "In" and "Out" is one of those binaries. Do we need it? Arguably it is the supposed necessity of "Coming out" that constructs (or at least reinforces) the "In".
You can live your authentic self without having to label yourself, or without making a public declaration to the world at large about what your identity is. Lots of "coming out" doesn't work like that anyway - it is a tactical thing, contextual disclosure, which is an effective way to navigate society. Yes, we should work to make the world a more welcoming place for people of all sexualities and genders - but that doesn't entail any one individual being totally 100% "out" or not.
posted by iivix at 1:32 AM on November 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm bisexual, gender-queer, and into queer theory.
To me, queerness is about embracing ambiguity, complexity, and breaking down binaries. "In" and "Out" is one of those binaries. Do we need it? Arguably it is the supposed necessity of "Coming out" that constructs (or at least reinforces) the "In".
You can live your authentic self without having to label yourself, or without making a public declaration to the world at large about what your identity is. Lots of "coming out" doesn't work like that anyway - it is a tactical thing, contextual disclosure, which is an effective way to navigate society. Yes, we should work to make the world a more welcoming place for people of all sexualities and genders - but that doesn't entail any one individual being totally 100% "out" or not.
posted by iivix at 1:32 AM on November 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I found a bisexuality discussion group at my local LGBTQ center and suddenly had a dozen new friends to talk about exactly these topics over tea and lemon bars. You're not alone in your experiences and feelings.
posted by Arctic Circle at 8:48 AM on November 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Arctic Circle at 8:48 AM on November 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel like part of the point of me being out as pansexual, though I'm in a monogamous marriage, is to make spaces safer for other people to be out. There are plenty of people who have much less choice about being out and it helps to stand together against the right wing. So yeah, you don't have to be out. But it could be a gift you give. Saying, I'm family and I welcome you.
We're not going to run out of space for people who want to be here. There's room.
posted by blueberry monster at 8:04 PM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
We're not going to run out of space for people who want to be here. There's room.
posted by blueberry monster at 8:04 PM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
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