What are the ethics of PHEVs using scarce public chargers?
October 22, 2022 9:39 PM Subscribe
Assume I move my PHEV as soon as it's finished charging. What are the ethical considerations surrounding my decision to take up a charger or not?
I drive a PHEV (plug-in hybrid vehicle) which goes about 50 miles on battery alone, then switches to hybrid mode. I live in a city where publicly-accessible chargers are scarce but available. I never have to charge my battery, but have a strong preferrence to drive in EV mode.
I would like to have a decision framework for this question that is ethical and considerate of other EV drivers. Am I less entitled to a charger because I don't need it in the same sense a pure-EV driver does?
I drive a PHEV (plug-in hybrid vehicle) which goes about 50 miles on battery alone, then switches to hybrid mode. I live in a city where publicly-accessible chargers are scarce but available. I never have to charge my battery, but have a strong preferrence to drive in EV mode.
I would like to have a decision framework for this question that is ethical and considerate of other EV drivers. Am I less entitled to a charger because I don't need it in the same sense a pure-EV driver does?
Most EV owners bought, at least in part, for environmental reasons. You not using gas advances that goal, so please avail yourself of chargers whenever useful. It is kind of you to move when charging completes.
posted by flimflam at 11:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by flimflam at 11:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Best answer: This seems similar to the debate we have about abled people using a disabled toilet if all others are occupied.
Building codes dictate number of toilets - say with 60 workers, the building code mandates 4 toilet pans. At least one toilet in the building must be disabled friendly with features like wider access, its own private washbasin.
So if there are 2 abled persons queueing for a toilet, and the three regular toilets are occupied, would it be ethical for one of them to use the empty disabled friendly toilet? I would say yes, because the disabled toilet is part of the 4 toilet requirement for 60 workers, even if there might be no disabled workers currently working there - you have no way of knowing, and indeed, an abled person might become temporarily disabled at any point. The correct thing to do is to use the abled toilets first, and then at last resort use the disabled friendly ones.
I see this as being the same as the EV / PHEV priority for chargers. If you see a queue of EVs lining up for the charger, you wouldn't join the queue yourself with a PHEV, because it indicates there's high demand for the charger and you're probably taking away resources from an EV who might need it more. However if there's no queue for usage, then it's optimal to use the charger (to reduce CO2 emissions) because "not" using the charger in case a hypothetical EV shows up doesn't really make sense.
posted by xdvesper at 11:32 PM on October 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
Building codes dictate number of toilets - say with 60 workers, the building code mandates 4 toilet pans. At least one toilet in the building must be disabled friendly with features like wider access, its own private washbasin.
So if there are 2 abled persons queueing for a toilet, and the three regular toilets are occupied, would it be ethical for one of them to use the empty disabled friendly toilet? I would say yes, because the disabled toilet is part of the 4 toilet requirement for 60 workers, even if there might be no disabled workers currently working there - you have no way of knowing, and indeed, an abled person might become temporarily disabled at any point. The correct thing to do is to use the abled toilets first, and then at last resort use the disabled friendly ones.
I see this as being the same as the EV / PHEV priority for chargers. If you see a queue of EVs lining up for the charger, you wouldn't join the queue yourself with a PHEV, because it indicates there's high demand for the charger and you're probably taking away resources from an EV who might need it more. However if there's no queue for usage, then it's optimal to use the charger (to reduce CO2 emissions) because "not" using the charger in case a hypothetical EV shows up doesn't really make sense.
posted by xdvesper at 11:32 PM on October 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think that maybe if you are currently charging, and by or in your car, and an EV pulls up - then it would be polite to talk to them and maybe offer them to charge in your place. Sometimes the EV driver might be desperate, in a hurry and have no other practical choices: your charger is their lifeline . Other times they might just be wanting to top up their battery a little given the opportunity - while shopping for example , or they might have other (faster, DC) options locally they could use instead
posted by rongorongo at 2:40 AM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 2:40 AM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
You have an electric vehicles. Chargers are provided for your PHEV as well as fully electric vehicles. I don’t see any ethical issue.
posted by theora55 at 4:52 AM on October 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 4:52 AM on October 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
A couple years ago at my work, a large entity with many public visitors, we had zero chargers. Then there were four and it was tricky but possible to get one, and now there are seven and 80%+ of the time I can have one if I want it. Presumably they'll never install enough for everyone to always access one, but thus far, increased demand has improved availability. I've seen the same pattern at stores and other parking garages. I believe this is in large part a local utility company lobbying to require a certain quantity per number of stalls based on their data, and PHEV kWh add up just as well as EV as far as I'm concerned. As long as everyone's actively charging, I bear no grudges, and indeed rarely even notice that something's a hybrid versus truly "needing" the charge.
posted by teremala at 4:58 AM on October 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by teremala at 4:58 AM on October 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Given the range of your battery, charging it likely takes almost no time at a public charger. And every mile you drive on battery is one fewer with gas. Don't think twice about it.
posted by redondo77 at 5:05 AM on October 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by redondo77 at 5:05 AM on October 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
If building owners and/or local government see that chargers are regularly in use, they may be more likely to add additional chargers.
posted by box at 5:25 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 5:25 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
You can reframe this the other way. Is it ethical for you to fill up at a gas station while there are gas-only cars waiting for a pump? Should you offer to give up your pump if a gas-only vehicle pulls in while you’re filling up? The ethical issues are the same, but these scenarios sound a bit silly. Your question too will sound a bit silly in time. Fill yourself up, whichever way.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:42 AM on October 23, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 5:42 AM on October 23, 2022 [8 favorites]
As a fellow EV driver, I don't think there's an ethical issue here at all. That said, you can also use something like NeedToCharge so other EV drivers can contact you if they need your charger.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:52 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:52 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
kevinbelt: Is it ethical for you to fill up at a gas station while there are gas-only cars waiting for a pump?
False comparison, sorry. Filling one's petrol tank rarely takes more than a few minutes, and if there is a queue it would be polite to move to a parking spot as soon as that's done, then go pay. Even with a small PHEV battery and a quick-charge option, putting in a non-trivial charge takes several times that; when (for comparison purposes) you'd be limiting your charge time to those few minutes you might as well not bother.
And a PHEV can be considered equally dependent on petrol as an IC-only car; the next petrol station can easily be out of its remaining EV range.
posted by Stoneshop at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
False comparison, sorry. Filling one's petrol tank rarely takes more than a few minutes, and if there is a queue it would be polite to move to a parking spot as soon as that's done, then go pay. Even with a small PHEV battery and a quick-charge option, putting in a non-trivial charge takes several times that; when (for comparison purposes) you'd be limiting your charge time to those few minutes you might as well not bother.
And a PHEV can be considered equally dependent on petrol as an IC-only car; the next petrol station can easily be out of its remaining EV range.
posted by Stoneshop at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I would like to have a decision framework for this question that is ethical and considerate of other EV drivers.
The more chargers are used, the more chargers will be installed by your local municipalities, business, etc.
Maximizing use of chargers is mutually beneficial for you and EV drivers. You are not being inconsiderate of EV drivers by putting them in a long-term better position. It is a generally useful societal goal to increase use of electric vehicles (PHEV and EV). The way to get to that goal is not by being short term "considerate", it's by deliberate action to move to electric power. You are actually being inconsiderate of EV owners by not using the chargers. Your version of "considerate" is something akin to avoiding buying organic food at a grocery store because the section is small, and you can easily subsist on burgers from McDonalds instead. That is not the way to get more organic food in grocery stores - in fact, it is exactly the opposite.
If you see a charger, and you need a charge, use it.
posted by saeculorum at 8:38 AM on October 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
The more chargers are used, the more chargers will be installed by your local municipalities, business, etc.
Maximizing use of chargers is mutually beneficial for you and EV drivers. You are not being inconsiderate of EV drivers by putting them in a long-term better position. It is a generally useful societal goal to increase use of electric vehicles (PHEV and EV). The way to get to that goal is not by being short term "considerate", it's by deliberate action to move to electric power. You are actually being inconsiderate of EV owners by not using the chargers. Your version of "considerate" is something akin to avoiding buying organic food at a grocery store because the section is small, and you can easily subsist on burgers from McDonalds instead. That is not the way to get more organic food in grocery stores - in fact, it is exactly the opposite.
If you see a charger, and you need a charge, use it.
posted by saeculorum at 8:38 AM on October 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
EV driver here, with a little less range anxiety now that we've gone from an i3 to a Bolt (even if we're still at limited range because battery-go-boom): If you're actively charging, actively charge away.
As others have noted using electricity is the better option, and demonstrating demand for more charging infrastructure is also good. We're getting better about being able to trust that a charger will be where the Charge Point app says it is, and that someone won't have stolen the charge cable for copper, but when there's a gas station on every corner and we're carefully planning backups for "away" chargers, I wanna see demand demonstrated.
Still trying to sort out whether we're ethically required to key internal combustion only vehicles blocking the charger spaces, though.
posted by straw at 10:08 AM on October 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
As others have noted using electricity is the better option, and demonstrating demand for more charging infrastructure is also good. We're getting better about being able to trust that a charger will be where the Charge Point app says it is, and that someone won't have stolen the charge cable for copper, but when there's a gas station on every corner and we're carefully planning backups for "away" chargers, I wanna see demand demonstrated.
Still trying to sort out whether we're ethically required to key internal combustion only vehicles blocking the charger spaces, though.
posted by straw at 10:08 AM on October 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Volt (PHEV) owner here. I would never pay for a public charger when I can charge more cheaply at home, and use gas when needed but rarely. If there's an open charger and it's free to charge, I say charge your PHEV but move when done or if asked. (I gave up a free charger at the shopping mall last week to a Tesla who needed it to get home. Either he was lying or a poor planner, but no problem for me.)
posted by Joleta at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2022
posted by Joleta at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2022
I have a plug-in hybrid and I typically don't plug in at a public plug if I'd be taking the last charger at that location. Otherwise, I usually go ahead and take it if I'm low.
posted by potrzebie at 10:59 PM on October 23, 2022
posted by potrzebie at 10:59 PM on October 23, 2022
straw: internal combustion only vehicles blocking the charger spaces
Here in the Netherlands IC vehicles can get fined if they're in a public EV parking spot; there has also been a case where an EV had stopped charging and got similarly fined, but the driver contested and TTBOMK the fine was dismissed.
AFAIK these would be municipal ordinances, but they've been widely put in place.
posted by Stoneshop at 11:11 PM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here in the Netherlands IC vehicles can get fined if they're in a public EV parking spot; there has also been a case where an EV had stopped charging and got similarly fined, but the driver contested and TTBOMK the fine was dismissed.
AFAIK these would be municipal ordinances, but they've been widely put in place.
posted by Stoneshop at 11:11 PM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think it really depends on where you live and also depends on the place the charger is located. My work has a probably a dozen chargers, and far more than that who drive electric cars, so some musical chairs is necessary. There's not a 'process' yet, but I'd bet in the next year there will be.
The movie theater, rec center, and some stores only have a few, but also they are more rare to be full. So keep a watch on how full they get, and then start giving it more thought.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on October 24, 2022
The movie theater, rec center, and some stores only have a few, but also they are more rare to be full. So keep a watch on how full they get, and then start giving it more thought.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on October 24, 2022
I am an EV owner who works at a building that has two free chargers. Several of the EV/PHEV owners have created a text community and we prioritize/share the plugs. In general, the presumption at our building is that PHEV owners get priority, because if they can fill up at work then they can get home on battery power only. And that serves our common interest in using electrons rather than gasoline. Also, as others have noted above PHEVs charge way faster because of the limited battery size and so you can get two or three or even four on one plug through the day.
Occasionally a pure EV car might say "I am way low today and need the juice" and we will let them jump the line.
The cardinal sin in our building is if you plug in and go to full and then let your car sit there. As long as you are considerate of others and move your car when it's done, at least in this EV owner's mind I am thrilled that you are plugged in and prioritizing battery power.
posted by AgentRocket at 7:56 AM on October 24, 2022
Occasionally a pure EV car might say "I am way low today and need the juice" and we will let them jump the line.
The cardinal sin in our building is if you plug in and go to full and then let your car sit there. As long as you are considerate of others and move your car when it's done, at least in this EV owner's mind I am thrilled that you are plugged in and prioritizing battery power.
posted by AgentRocket at 7:56 AM on October 24, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 10:05 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]