I have one week to decide who to have a baby with – please help!

August 16, 2022 12:43 AM

I have to make the most important decision of my life and I am so confused. I have to decide in the next WEEK whether to have a baby with the man I love – or to have one alone, which would mean my child has no father and I lose my boyfriend.

This was me a year and a half ago

My boyfriend and I did break up, and I did do IVF to freeze embryos with a sperm bank donor. I then embarked on doing IVF with my gay friend who lives in another country. It would have been perfect – him as an uncle figure, and my child knowing who their father is. Covid held it up, and it took a year. When we finally did that IVF, it failed, just by a bit of bad luck, really. I was devastated.

My ex and I got closer during that year, and he made many moves towards having a baby with me during that time. But I felt ethically obliged to my gay friend, and also my ex always at the final moment got cold feet, which was exhausting. We even went to a fertility clinic to get started but it never progressed.

For my 3rd round of IVF a couple of months ago, my clinic advised me not to use my gay friend's sperm as, along with my old eggs, odds were against us. My (not so ex at that point) boyfriend couldn't decide whether to do it with me, even after we saw a therapist – and he was so indecisive that on the morning of my egg retrieval, before my general anaesthetic, my doctor ultimately made the decision for us. It was incredibly stressful. We used his sperm – I was amazed we got that far. But the round failed. Again. (And also due to bad luck rather than any fertility issues, beyond my age).

I've just turned 41, I still don't have a baby, and my ex and I are still basically together. Our love for each other has become profound. We want to see each other all the time, we're constantly affectionate and everything feel's right in the world when we're together, even if we're just watching TV. I've never met anyone who I've got on so easily with or who loves me more.

But I'm emotionally exhausted from the past 3 years of his fear and issues. He also has intimacy issues, I should add – sex was amazing when we hooked up as strangers, but once we were in a relationship he put up walls (he doesn't kiss me on the lips, just on my neck; he said he feels like I'm 'family' and doesn't feel 'chemistry' – though he has walked that back recently and said he's attracted to me, and initiated intimacy much more. But I am still ashamed to be my full sexual self around him). I know sex isn't the most important thing, but it matters. He makes up for it by being unbelievably affectionate, which is amazing.

We tried naturally to get pregnant last month and it failed. I'd said that was our last chance because of my age. In a week's time, my doctor will transfer the good embryo I made in my round of IVF with the sperm donor. If it works, my child will have no idea who their father is until they're 18, and then this man could choose to reject contact with them – with sperm bank donors, it's a lottery.

Meanwhile, my boyfriend wants us to do one last round of IVF together, which at my age could fail anyway.

I love him so much, I don't want to lose him and now he finally wants a baby with me. I deeply want to make him happy – AND I desperately want a father for my child (I should add that his family is great, and I love them).

But my fertility journey has been awful, my boyfriend has driven me beyond nuts with his indecision, and there's a part of me that fears a future with him. I've been patient with him for so long and I'm exhausted, even though he also gives me a billion times more than any other man has ever given me.

He has also made it clear that he wants to be genetically related to any child he brings up, and 'will not bring up another man's baby'. I think his view might evolve over time, but for now, that's not an option.

This feels like such a serious thing – given it's about whether or not my baby has a father. My transfer with the embryo I made with the sperm donor is scheduled for next Tuesday. I'm utterly at sea. I know my family and friends' opinions, but I would also be grateful for those of strangers on the internet as I try to do some panicked soul-searching - thank you!
Edit: Extra context here.

posted by Ella_Bella to Human Relations (47 answers total)

Good Lord, do not let your child have a father who blows hot and cold like this. He couldn't make up his mind even when you were literally about to undergo a surgical procedure in aid of having children? Yeesh.

It's been stressful enough for you, a fully fledged adult; for a kid to experience this level of emotional instability--from a parent, no less--can be devastating.

Actually scratch that, it's not emotional instability. It's the behavior of a man who wants one thing but pretends to go along with another because it gives him access to you. He "puts up walls" in your relationship because intermittent reinforcement makes things more desirable. (This is Addiction Neuroscience 101. Humans are literally wired to respond to this.)

He's told you, and shown you, that he doesn't want kids. You do. Y'all can be as limerent as you want, but that's a fundamental incompatibility.
posted by basalganglia at 1:31 AM on August 16, 2022 [130 favorites]

I think the factors are

(1) you really want to have a baby
(2) you are in love with this particular man
(3) your relationship is unstable and not guaranteed to last regardless of your choice to put it mildly
(4) your chances of success with any IVF cycle are less than 50% and probably quite a bit less

The brutal reality is that there is a good chance you will end up with neither this relationship nor an IVF baby from your own eggs. If you look at that outcome, which will you be most relieved you gave one last throw of the dice? I think it's probably the IVF, but it's entirely your choice.
posted by plonkee at 1:53 AM on August 16, 2022 [16 favorites]

Best answer: I feel like if you wanted to do this with him, you wouldn’t be asking us this question. But facing the fallout on it at the same time as doing IVF is a lot to cope with so totally understandable. And I am so curious what your family think, as they will presumably know him (and you) better than us. A good counsellor would be useful at this point to help you decide - we can all chip in but we don’t have to live with it.

I can feel ok watching tv with almost anyone, but what happens off the couch when life is tough? He’s dicking about as you head into surgery!! He can be fun and you can be in love in all sorts of ways but he can also not be the right person for being the father of your child, even if the alternative is unknown. When he is at his worst, would you want to coparent with him, as that is the side you may well have to deal with later…

Bet on yourself. You can be enough.
posted by AnnaRat at 2:12 AM on August 16, 2022 [25 favorites]

If you do have a child, is he going to waffle about parenting? Yes. He’s the guy who’s going to be like, “you’re the one who wanted this baby, you change her diapers and get up in the night and research the daycare options and do both pick-up and drop-off. It wasn’t my decision.” And maybe right now you think that’ll be ok because that’s how much you want a baby. But I predict you will grow to despise him.
posted by Kriesa at 3:29 AM on August 16, 2022 [69 favorites]

I just want to throw out there that sometimes it’s better to not know your father than to have a really horrendously terrible father in your life for a really long time.
posted by donut_princess at 3:50 AM on August 16, 2022 [85 favorites]

OMG the amount of red flags in your post! Do not have a baby with this man.

This man will be indecisive about everything to do with your life and the child. Eg. the following scenario: "Hey partner, kid is having some ear troubles, what do you think we should do?" - "Ehhh... I dunno, let's wait and see" is a recipe for a late-night ER visit after child has been screaming in pain for 2 days because that ear infection got going and your pedi's office was closed. And that is just ONE little detail, one single decision from a MYRIAD of decisions you have to make EVERY DAY that will affect your child, their future and your life. "Do you think the baby sorta crawls weird? Should we mention it to the doctor?" "Do we sign up kid for a different daycare, he/she doesn't seem to like this one?" "Do we move into a bigger house?" and on and on... You will be a single parent in this relationship.

On the other hand, the guy seems to have some weird things going on (no kissing in a relationship?!? will only care for a baby who has his genes???) that indicate to me (a parent of 2 kids in a failed relationship) some deeper issues which will definitely come to surface with a baby in his life. Ask yourself what other issues you'll bump into with time. "Men don't change diapers" or "It's mom's job to do everything with the baby" or "Women take care of the kids and the house, it's not my job" ? Do you really want to find out?

And let me tell you, once you have a kid with someone, you can never get them out of your life completely. They will always remain your child's parent. (Go watch "Maid" on Netflix!) There is no "that's it, we're done, goodbye". You AND YOUR CHILD will have to deal with this guy's indecisiveness and assholery for the rest of your lives.

This man will not be a good father to this (potential) child and don't make any decisions based on your hope that he will.
posted by gakiko at 3:51 AM on August 16, 2022 [27 favorites]

He’s going to abandon you with the baby, 100%. So either way, you raise a baby alone.

But if you try with him first, you at least get an intermittent source of child support before and maybe even after he vanishes, AND you still have one embryo left if the procedure doesn’t work with him…

He has made it clear that he will be an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to parent with and he has shown you that he will abandon you and the child. He has already tried to do that multiple times and the child doesn’t even exist yet. He doesn’t even kiss you. Which is actually heartbreaking.

But on the practical side, if you try with him first, it’s like getting a free round of donor sperm, and he might stick around and help for a few months before he inevitably leaves.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:52 AM on August 16, 2022 [13 favorites]

It seems to me that you are thinking of this choice as “child has boyfriend for a father” vs “child has no father for 18 years.” That’s not necessarily the case. If you do IVF with the donor sperm, you may still meet a partner in a few years who can fill the role. And your current relationship sounds unstable enough (through no fault of yours, let me be clear) that I would not count on it sustaining through the difficulties that parenting can bring.
posted by eirias at 3:56 AM on August 16, 2022 [46 favorites]

Best answer: Who is going to wake up in the middle of the night to feed your child?
Who will make doctor's appointments?
Who is going to deal with toddler tantrums?
Who will contribute to a college fund?
Who is going to do bedtime?
Who will make dinnerwho will pack school lunches?
Who is going to do homework with your child?
Who will take them school supply shopping?
When will provide sex education?
What are you going to teach the child about race, war, religion, other big issues?
Who will plan birthday parties?

Sit with yourself and imagine the real future of bringing up a human. There will be work ahead. Will your boyfriend actually partner with you or will he just be there for the "fun" stuff.

Because you could have a baby with him and still functionally be a single parent.
posted by brookeb at 3:56 AM on August 16, 2022 [21 favorites]

For a child, a dad who runs hot and cold can be devastating. What is a father really, ideally? He’s a rock. The guys whose chest soothes the baby. The guy who gently picks up the tantrumming toddler and takes him out of the restaurant to look at pigeons in the parking lot. The guy who teaches his sons and daughters what respect looks like in a relationship. The guy that drives at 3am to pick their drunk child up from the side of the road.

When a child has a dad in their life who is flaky and uses affection as a weapon, that child starts to feel like there is something wrong *with them.* Rather than putting their energy into becoming themselves, they try to find the magic way to dad’s heart. Sound familiar?

Do your child the favour of a clear runway…go for the sperm donor. A sperm donor means you, their mother, knew you were capable of forming a complete family and you did.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:07 AM on August 16, 2022 [95 favorites]

Everyone is kind of harsh on your emotionally immature BF, but what’s the urgency to use your remaining embryo? It won’t go “out of date” and your chances of success with that one embryo aren’t declining if you wait.

Neither you nor your partner have any fertility issues? Why not just see if you get pregnant (naturally) with your BF, over 6-12 months, and then do another round of IVF with him, if you both want that?
posted by roofus at 4:22 AM on August 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

Yeah, this is not a man you can rely on to be a good father. Maybe fatherhood will change him, but I wouldn’t bet on that outcome. I think you should assume you are going to be a single parent either way, and decide whether you would prefer to do that with an inconsistent and unreliable co-parent whose emotional failings you have to protect your child from, or to navigate the “anonymous sperm donor” explanation to your child instead.

I’m sorry this has been so hard, and I hope one way or another you get to have the parenting experience you want.
posted by Stacey at 4:30 AM on August 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

Some ambivalent fathers do rise to the occasion, but I don't think you should have a baby with this man. I know you said he finally wants to but, I wouldn't count on him being committed to you or the baby. If you did get pregnant, I wouldn't be surprised if that is when he decides for sure he doesn't want to raise a kid.

I don't understand why you were going forward with the gay friend doner when you were back with your current boyfriend--was he going to help raise that baby?

I know you love him, but someone saying they would not raise a non-biologically related child speaks volume about their character. Would he accept a disabled child? A boy child when he wanted a girl child? You feel exhausted now, having a kid with him won't solve any of his deficits.

I think you know this--either stay with him and don't be a mom or break up and keep trying.

Good Luck
posted by rhonzo at 5:15 AM on August 16, 2022 [10 favorites]

Best answer: It sounds like what you want, in this order is:
1) A healthy baby
2) A healthy relationship with this man
3) A child who has a father.

And I think you know, and what makes this situation so difficult, is that each of these is a long shot.

For 1, As others have mentioned, at your age and with your history, this IVF - regardless of the father - is already an uphill battle. But it’s also the most important. If you decide to cancel your Tuesday appointment, I’m assuming they won’t dispose of your healthy embryo without your permission. This isn’t a Tuesday or nothing choice.

For 2, again as others have mentioned, this boyfriend seems like an even longer long shot than having a baby. In fact, this sounds exactly like the controlling move of a controlling man who found out you’re about to go through IVF with someone else’s DNA, and is trying to flip the table just so you cancel it. I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if he stalled or changed his mind completely if you cancel on Tuesday.

As for 3, is the way this guy treats you the role model you want for your child as a father figure? Is it a risk you want to take that he might blow hot and cold with affection with your child - or with you in front of them? Do you genuinely believe that just because this man may be the last partner you can biologically have children with in your life, therefore he’s the last chance you have to be the love of your life? 41 is young and you can definitely do better.

My advice is to talk to your RE and see if you can postpone Tuesday and hold the embryo for another month or two without hampering your chance for a good outcome. If so, and you really believe that you want your boyfriend to be the father to your child, then have them hold the embryo and say you’ll go ahead with IVF with your boyfriend- and then see if he follows through in the next cycle.

If not, there’s your answer. And if your doctor tells you that it needs to be now, then honestly I would go ahead with it. If your boyfriend would genuinely break up with you because you attempted to become pregnant via IVF - something he knows you’ve always wanted - even before you find out whether the IVF is successful, then he isn’t someone who deserves your love.

A good spouse can love to raise someone else’s kid - especially one they’ve known from birth! If he says he can’t, and you believe him, then why would you want to be with someone who you wouldn’t even date if you met him as a single mom?

Best of luck to you. Just remember your priorities and I think you’ll figure out what you really want to do. But if you want this internet stranger’s opinion, your child doesn’t need this guy and neither do you.
posted by Mchelly at 5:25 AM on August 16, 2022 [18 favorites]

Another cynical perspective:

Not every woman cares all that much about conceiving a child with an ambivalent father, because not all see a father as having an inherently relevant role. In fact, some of us were raised to think of those concerns as somewhat precious. There are basically entire communities where this isn't treated as a salient concern. Children don't need fathers (particularly flaky ones), and you don't need a co-parent (or desire to be partnered ever again). Also, that role model thing mentioned earlier? Perhaps interrogate why exactly a child needs that. Allegedly, if they're sufficiently bright, your life decisions ought to have no impact on them whatsoever, or at least that's what I've been told.

And let me tell you, once you have a kid with someone, you can never get them out of your life completely. They will always remain your child's parent.

Yes, you can. Just ask my mother. To some extent, this may be contingent on shaming your child for ever mentioning the existence of their other parent. Get that memory hole as nice and wide as you can early on.

tl;dr - just decide to be a single parent not exactly by choice and dig your heels in about it. It'll make you feel better.
posted by blerghamot at 5:38 AM on August 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Sorry, I was lazy and only just read your prior question so I didn’t remember your age differences. Based on what you wrote in both posts, I don’t think this man wants to have a baby with you. It sounds like you have made it completely clear that because of your age and fertility issues, you would rather have a baby with an anonymous donor than no baby. That this is the highest priority for you. And he… has all the time in the world, so if he wants a baby at all, he wants “fatherhood”: his sperm, “his” baby, his decision.

It’s not fair that you met at different ages and at a fraught point in your fertility window. But it sounds like he’s probably still just not there yet, and only agreeing to IVF with you as a nuclear option to keep this other potential baby from getting in the way of the way he sees fatherhood happening. So I still think postponing Tuesday and giving your boyfriend the chance is worth a try if that’s what you really want - I’m willing to be more generous toward him in light of where he is in life compared to you - but it also reinforces my opinion that this guy isn’t the guy who will be there for you when you need him. Especially if he’s someone who suddenly realizes when he gets older that he always assumed that someday he’d have (plural) kids.
posted by Mchelly at 5:48 AM on August 16, 2022 [5 favorites]

It's been said and I'll say it again: a man who cannot kiss you because you are too familiar to him is not a man who is going to be anything other than bad for a child. At best he will be dead weight; at worst he will be emotionally abusive, and this child will suffer.

But there's something else. I'm your age, and I want to ask you: what are your energy levels like? Really like? From personal caretaking experience (although not childrearing) I can tell you that being up and giving affection, attention, cleaning, etc. at all hours is not what it was like in the 20s. It's possible to reach levels of exhaustion that are physically dangerous, especially when you are on your own. If you are an athlete or otherwise train for endurance, or if you're a five-hours-a-night type, this may not be so much of a concern. But consider your situation honestly in that regard.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:04 AM on August 16, 2022 [14 favorites]

Something else that just occurred to me. This framing (make a snap decision about something important NOW) was itself a red flag in reading the question. It’s the kind of trick that scammers use to get you to drop your guard and do something you wouldn’t do if you had a while to consider it soberly. Who is forcing you into this framing? Who thinks they are going to benefit by doing this? My hunch is that it is your boyfriend.
posted by eirias at 6:15 AM on August 16, 2022 [37 favorites]

Best answer: My advice, as someone who settled, had two lovely babies, then raised them alone while trying and failing to protect their psyches against their hot/cold/gone/back again/gone again/I never wanted kids anyway father:

1. Drop the bf and his intimacy issues.
2. Do some work with a counselor to understand why you'd not just settle but idealize and pine for someone who neither meets your needs nor shares your definition of family.
3. Get to know a few people who are already good fathers, are either widowed or have good coparenting relationships with their exes, share your worldview on important matters like what a family is.
4. Pick the one whose kisses make you melt.

Your bf says he refuses to raise a child not biologically related to him. (Which is just another excuse, but anyway.) Are you willing to raise a child not biologically related to you? You sound like a loving and nurturing person - I wonder if, once you get past this last fertility hump, you might find that caring for a child/children life brings to you is as rewarding as caring for one you birthed.

The embryo route has been heartrending for you already and is unlikely to succeed, but if you have the means and the emotional fortitude, it might be worth it to give it another go just so not giving it one last try won't haunt you. But after that, it's time to focus on you instead of the manbaby you've been taking care of up to now.
posted by headnsouth at 6:17 AM on August 16, 2022 [33 favorites]

gives me a billion times more than any other man has ever given me.

"Better than what I've had before" is not the same thing as "good."
posted by soundguy99 at 6:32 AM on August 16, 2022 [46 favorites]

Hi don't have a baby with someone who thinks specifically that once someone is "family" they don't need to get good treatment from him anymore??? What is a baby if not THE MOST family?

Guh so he can't kiss you on the mouth because you're "family" but a baby you, his beloved supposedly, carries in her body and then births in his presence and raises with him won't be "family" because his dick was not involved in the making of the baby...GROSS. It's just gross! He needs like 20 years of therapy before he should be anyone's husband or dad.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:34 AM on August 16, 2022 [26 favorites]

Please do not inflict this man on your child.
posted by Ragged Richard at 6:39 AM on August 16, 2022 [22 favorites]

From your previous thread:
Christ, if it were four years I'd have left ages ago.

Well, now it's been three and a half years, so...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:41 AM on August 16, 2022 [30 favorites]

But my fertility journey has been awful, my boyfriend has driven me beyond nuts with his indecision, and there's a part of me that fears a future with him.

and

He has also made it clear that he wants to be genetically related to any child he brings up, and 'will not bring up another man's baby'.

Do not have children with this man.
posted by zara at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2022 [12 favorites]

Ok, my response above was a quick response, and after reading all the other thoughtful responses would like to add- I grew up with just my mom, my father isnt even on my birth certificate. Growing up in a rather typical suburban 2 parent high achieving area, it was seen as different. But I would watch my friends deal with bad divorces, parents that wouldn't speak to their ex spouses even if it was as simple as "who is going to pick them up from baseball", or parents who hated each other but stayed together "for the kids" and was SO THANKFUL my mom just up and did her own thing and didnt try to force something to happen that might have made me feel worse in the end. One loving parent and a village is so much better than 2 parents and 1 of them never wanted to be there in the first place.

I'm sure most of those couples didn't see that would be where they would end up in 5/10/15 years. But this person is telling you exactly how its going to be trying to parent with them. Listen.
posted by zara at 6:58 AM on August 16, 2022 [14 favorites]

children can do just fine without a father as long as their mother is not miserable about it. children cannot do just fine with a mother who submits to being demeaned by a man, because he is a man, for the sole purpose of ensuring there is a man in the household.

He has also made it clear that he wants to be genetically related to any child he brings up, and 'will not bring up another man's baby'. I think his view might evolve over time,

your hypothetical baby isn't old enough to say to him "don't do me any any favors" so you will have to say it on their behalf.

you don't want him doing your kid any favors.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:01 AM on August 16, 2022 [20 favorites]

I just want to throw out there that sometimes it’s better to not know your father than to have a really horrendously terrible father in your life for a really long time.

This. Ask me how I know.
posted by nayantara at 7:19 AM on August 16, 2022 [11 favorites]

There are people out there who will love you for who you are — and love your kid for who they are — regardless of any kind of genetic relationship.

I promise. I promise I promise I promise. People like that exist.

I get it. You're in a relationship with this jerkass who's made you feel like all love, and all willingness to participate in a relationship, is conditional. But screw him. The world is full of people who don't operate like that. Have your own kid, ditch this guy, and find some.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:29 AM on August 16, 2022 [17 favorites]

I agree this guy is going to be a shit dad because he's a terrible partner. But if you can commit to dumping him if necessary to protect your baby from his potential fuckwittery at a future time (this is a very important condition you must meet before proceeding) you should try for a baby with him. That's because

(a) it is good to get some child support, your kid will need it, and

(b) there is zero risk that he will demand custody of the child after he inevitably abandons you or turns into the fuckwit whom you will dump, so there is no downside whatsoever to having him father the baby

If this sounds cold, so be it. Life is cold when it comes to survival, and money is survival. You're not tricking him into anything. If he steps up and turns into a good dad, everybody wins. That is totally something he could choose to do, entirely under his control. But if he behaves true to form, you will still be better off and more protected with a known father who is on the hook for child support than if the sperm came from someone anonymous.
posted by MiraK at 7:47 AM on August 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I think you should plan on having this kid alone, regardless of who donates the sperm (bf or donor). It sounds like bf isn't going to be around much longer anyway, though I suppose he could provide child support as the father, but that sounds like it would come with so much baggage.
posted by greta simone at 7:51 AM on August 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

Best answer: I had two kids willingly with a man who wasn't the best father in the way you might envision what a father should be. We divorced when the kids were 4 and 7. BUT he has financially provided for them for their whole lives, which, as a child of divorce who had little contact and very little financial support, is way more than my father ever did. I can tell you from experience that the financial piece of my kids lives has made all of the difference in terms of their lives and lifestyles. Yes, it had been hard co-parenting with him- I did all of the child rearing, and he had them two weekends a month. However, that meant that I made all the choices about schooling, camps etc and he paid the majority of the costs of those things and all the things that come along with raising two children. Now that one kid is out of college (which he also paid for mostly, including spending money and rent in the bay area), and one kid is a senior, they have a separate relationship with him, and he and I are finally in a spot where we are friendly to each other. I can't envision raising kids in another way, and honestly those two kid free weekends a month saved me as a mother.

My point is similar to others, and might seem cold, I agree that if your boyfriend could be a source of financial support, and you need that support, then you should have a kid with him. If you have the financial resources to raise your child on your own, then go with the sperm donor.

I think at 41 you need to be pragmatic and honest about the fact that anyone you choose to have a child with might end up being not being what you hoped for. That is the reality of life and anyone who suggests that you might eventually meet someone who will fulfill all of your wishes and dreams hasn't really lived a long life, or has been incredibly lucky. Good luck with what ever you decide.
posted by momochan at 8:45 AM on August 16, 2022 [12 favorites]

Best answer: the ideology in some of these supportive answers, boy

a father is neither a "role" nor a "rock". he's a particular guy who is the parent of a particular child. idealizing and romanticizing fatherhood is what has led you to wonder if maybe your particular guy is better than no guy, as if you're casting a play and casting a lousy actor's better than nobody to say the lines. his undesirability would be much clearer to you if you were measuring this guy against yourself.

and as to the dire warnings: I don't know your personal physical circumstances but women have been having babies into our forties for as long as we have existed in our current approximate biological state, often without meaning to. your need for IVF is not related to your general endurance or physical fitness. I'd worry about your potential exhaustion if this was going to be your fifth child, or your tenth. but it's not; it's going to be your first and perhaps your only. if you have thoroughly researched the practical and financial side, you want to do it, and you judge yourself capable of doing it, you will most likely be able to do it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:47 AM on August 16, 2022 [10 favorites]

Saying he won’t raise “another man's child” is fucking gross and I’m sorry, it makes him an asshole, I don’t care what his other qualities are. Christ, the guy may as well just run around wearing a T-shirt saying “I [HEART] toxic masculinity.” This is someone who will probably make a shitty father when he actually wants children, never mind when he doesn’t.
posted by holborne at 9:12 AM on August 16, 2022 [22 favorites]

This guy has gaslit you into a cage. Get away from him, find yourself again, and then work on having a child. Please don't bring a kid into a relationship you have to do this much mental gymnastics to make it sound like a good relationship. It's not.
posted by haplesschild at 9:32 AM on August 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

You’re addicted to the push-pull and that’s not love that’s neuro reward chemicals working overtime.

Have your own baby and build a stable life for yourself. Let this guy go. For good.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

There are a lot of ways in which your boyfriend could make life difficult for your child if he is their father:

blocking routine childhood immunisations;

blocking HPV vaccinations;

blocking COVID vaccinations;

making it difficult or impossible for her to get an abortion while she is underage (in many states this requires parental consent from both parents);

blocking your childs ability to take puberty blocking medications if they are trans (in many states this requires parental consent from both parents).

It is too high a risk.
posted by carriage pulled by cassowaries at 9:58 AM on August 16, 2022 [15 favorites]

Yeah, this guy may not have any interest in the child itself, but he will quickly realize that he can use the child to control and manipulate you if you spilt up. Use a donor or someone else if you want to have a child.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 10:25 AM on August 16, 2022 [22 favorites]

A possibility that occurs to me is that your boyfriend is going along with trying for a baby one last time because, given the failed IVF attempts, it's looking unlikely that you will succeed in getting pregnant. (I am not saying that you are actually unlikely to succeed, just that this might be his assumption.) Then, if you fail to have a baby, he can stay with you while claiming that he didn't hold you back from your goal.
posted by Comet Bug at 10:37 AM on August 16, 2022 [10 favorites]

Best answer: I am confused by some of the interpretations being offered, confused enough to wonder whether I am missing something seriously weird from your post history. Turns out, no. You don't have much of a post history, and what's there indicates you're a perfectly reasonable, responsible, level-headed person who very much wants a baby and who is in love with a man who jerks you around. Not, as some reads on this thread led me to believe, an unreasonable, pathetically clingy doormat of a person with severe self-esteem issues who only wants a baby in order to fulfill your own inappropriate needs for closeness and who is in love with a controlling, manipulative abuser.

FWIW I don't see anything in your post that says you're not ready to have a baby, or that you only want to have a baby for inappropriate reasons. And while you've chosen to stick with a partner who's treating you badly (definitely room for therapy here), I don't think anything you have written here gives us reason to think he is dangerous or diabolical or controlling or abusive or vindictive etc. and that you're ignoring it because of how damaged or delusional you are.

Your partner sounds very immature (I'm basing this judgment on the fact that he can't make up his mind, can't make an adult commitment) and he has serious intimacy issues (won't kiss you?!?! and all that push-pull stuff for three long years, yikes). He's not currently capable of being emotionally self-aware, responsible, honorably committed, and loving others without self-centeredness. That is why he's a terrible partner for you and why I think he won't stick around to be a proper father.

But that's not the same category as a controlling, manipulative psycho type of guy! Nothing in what you write leads me to think he will use a child to fuck with you just for the sake of fucking with you (or the kid). I'm guessing he isn't currently against vaccines and abortions for children and medical care for trans kids. So we necessarily need to assume he's a total psycho if we think there's a reasonable possibility that he will suddenly start asserting these objections at a later date just to control you, just to cause you harm, while actively harming his biological child. This is not a normal or reasonable assumption to make, it's hyperbolic and paranoid.

(Is it possible he might change his mind and come to have genuine objections? Sure. That's a risk anyone with a coparent takes on, though, and not enough of a risk to disqualify anyone from being a parent because otherwise it would disqualify everyone from being a parent.)
posted by MiraK at 11:29 AM on August 16, 2022 [5 favorites]

Response by poster: Also, as to the poster who said I wasn't equipped to raise a child, 'because you do not seem to have any emotional mooring beyond what feels barely okay right this second', I find this a bizarre claim.

Do I feel unmoored and discombobulated in my relationship (potentially due to damage, potentially due to being with someone emotionally immature, potentially due to my hopes and dreams – and certainly due to the time pressure)? Yes, I do.

Do I feel unmoored in my job? No.
In my vocation? No.
As the first port of call for my mother who lost her own mother (my grandmother) relatively recently? No.
As the first port of call for my best friend who lost her mother recently? No.
In my relationship with my parents? No.
In my relationship with my brothers? No.
In my role as an auntie to my niece and nephew? No.
As a godmother? No.
As a friend? No.
As a member of my community? No.
As a committed gardener? No.

You get the idea. It's entirely possible to feel unmoored in one area of your life and yet be able to feel stable emotions – and carry out your responsibilities – in other areas perfectly fine. And I intend to do that as best I can for my child.

Furthermore, as for: 'as you drift from man to man who is occasionally not unpleasant to you and is probably life-ruiningly bad to your children' – that makes no sense, either. I've had two relationships in my 30s, this one and another long-term one with a wonderful human being who is still a good friend to this day.

Anyway, sorry – that just got to me. I should rise above and not post this, but hey, I'm tired, it's the internet, and people have told me exactly what they think, too, so here we are.
posted by Ella_Bella at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2022 [13 favorites]

Response by poster: Weird, I wrote another post here that's been removed, I guess? I just wanted to say thank you to @MiraK for your excellently reasonable answer, and to others too, for your helpful thoughts.
posted by Ella_Bella at 1:15 PM on August 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Although I've only skimmed the answers here, I wanted to add: if you can't bear the thought of leaving him, and you can't bear his indecision while staying with him, then the first thing to do is to grow your support network so that he is not your only source of affection and that feeling that all is right with the world. Obviously this is not a thing you can do overnight or even in the next week, but increasing the overall level of support in your life will help with opening up your world of options so you can make the decision that is really right for you, rather than just playing along in his world because it seems like your only viable option.
posted by danceswithlight at 1:30 PM on August 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

I think you should sit down with a family lawyer. It seems to me as if you-- should you go the route of parenthood with your boyfriend-- are looking at a commitment on the level of marriage in terms of the possible consequences, but without even the protections marriage with a prenup would get you. I know there's an age difference, but not your respective levels of economic vulnerability, or anything else that could create problems. If you're going to have a kid and then break up, you can't do anything in advance to make it problem-free, but you can at least have an idea of what to avoid. If you have a lot of money and he has none, for instance, protect yourself and your kid.

Maybe it's coming from a family of lawyers, but I always find it bracing to talk to one when things are changing.

Good luck, whatever you decide!
posted by BibiRose at 2:29 PM on August 16, 2022 [5 favorites]

Best answer: If it were me, I would get the embryo implanted and see if it sticks. But I knew motherhood was something I wanted to experience and I wouldn't let a waffly non-committal guy who didn't feel chemistry with me get in my way of at least trying. Shoot your shot.

If it does implant and progress to successful pregnancy, rejoice -- you get to be a biological mom! Break up with this guy, get or continue individual therapy, and commit to being the best single mom you can be. You aren't going to regret having a beautiful baby. Or maybe don't break up and maybe his idea that he needs to be the biological father will actually shift due to his love for you? (I feel like I'm being incredibly generous here because girl I really want you to DTMFA.)

If it doesn't stick, and you two have the financial resources to do yet MORE IVF, sure, you could try together....I would want him to marry me first, which I bet this guy would balk at, but that's your call. I also think he needs to pay for 50% of the IVF as a show of commitment to creating a child together.

Separately, if you use this embryo, I think you really need to reframe your thinking on this part: "If it works, my child will have no idea who their father is until they're 18, and then this man could choose to reject contact with them – with sperm bank donors, it's a lottery." -- It sounds like you are thinking, "My kid will have a dad, who they could have a relationship with as an adult!" This is really unfair to men who donate sperm. Sperm donors aren't fathers, and you shouldn't have any expectation that after age 18 they will be in relationship with the child you create using their donated gametes. Apologies if I've mis-interpreted your comment.
posted by amaire at 4:16 PM on August 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

Moving forward....
Have you had several serious talks with your brothers (mentioned above) about who will be named as your child's guardians in case of emergencies? Are the spouses on board with this?
One issue with being an older parent is the possibility of sudden health issues. Get your ducks in a row about who will raise your child if you cannot.
Then go into parenting with all the love you can give.

Oh, yeah... when someone tells you who they are, believe them.
Parenting is the toughest job in the world. It changes people, and not always for the better.
If someone can't commit, then they shouldn't do it. And they shouldn't let someone talk them into it in hopes that it will work out eventually.
Children are too important.
posted by TrishaU at 4:33 PM on August 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Best answer: A few more thoughts. I really feel for you, OP. <3

An acquaintance of mine had a baby with sperm from a sperm bank about 18 months ago. Yes it is freaking HARD to be a single parent (she is lucky to live with her sister who is a good support though not a co-parent) -- but I know for sure she has ZERO regrets and is madly in love with her child. She still hopes for partnership someday. My aunt had a child as a single mom after years of presumed infertility, and then when my cousin was a toddler met an amazing man who she has been married to for, gosh, 45+ years? He adopted my cousin, too.

Secondly, lots of people grow up without a father, (or a mother), and are still happy and fulfilled and joyous and satisfied and thriving and well-adjusted. And lots of people with two parents are NOT those things. Even those of us in partnerships can't assume that that will remain the case -- my husband could die when our child is an infant or a toddler leaving me a single mom (or I could die and leave him a single dad) -- in fact in my IRL social circle alone I know 4 families to whom this has tragically happened (3 of them have since remarried, so life is long and you never know how things will evolve!).

All that's to say: if you want to bring a new life into this beautiful, tender, wild, chaotic, breathtaking world -- do it. Life is a gift and it's admirable that you want to give it. You can't know what the future will hold for that child or yourself, you can only do your best each day.
posted by amaire at 7:48 AM on August 17, 2022 [9 favorites]

Could you delay the sperm donor embryo implantation, and for how long? If you're able to delay, it would give you a chance to try IVF with your boyfriend first and see how that goes. I don't think he's so terrible for not wanting to raise a non-biological baby - lots of people only want bio kids. Raising a kid is a huge responsibility in every way and I think it is a reasonable choice to not want that responsibility if it's not your biological kid.

Also, if you have a baby with him and things don't work out between you two, having that child support $$$ will be valuable for your kid.

If, on the other hand, you cannot delay the embryo implantation and it needs to happen this week or never, I say go for the implantation because you have seem very clear about wanting a baby and it seems like this is your best chance to become a mom.

Best of luck to you - I hope things work out for you one way or the other. I'd love to hear what happens if you are willing to share with us.
posted by sunflower16 at 8:18 AM on August 21, 2022