When do you finally let go of a friend?

March 14, 2022 10:15 AM

I'm questioning my relationship with a long-time friend and unsure of how to handle things from here. I've tried to include a lot of examples here to paint an accurate picture of the situation so it's a long one.

I have a long-term friend, let's call her B, that I've known since college (we're both in our late 20s now). It's always been a challenging friendship at times. B knows how to make me feel judged. She's been critical of me for using dating apps over the years to find a partner, even though she's also compulsively used dating apps herself and only stopped once she found a long-term partner, who so happens to be a married man who's cheating on his wife with her. He swears he's gonna leave; they've had their own bad fights and he can be an asshole at times, so her judgment of me and my dating choices confounds me. Regardless, B has made it clear that she thinks I have a bad taste in men. She's quick to suggest I break up with people as soon as we have any conflict, even though her boyfriend has his own severe flaws and she continues to stay with him. In addition to being married, he drinks heavily, drives drunk, and has made racist comments in the past--of course he can be sweet and caring too and the situation is nuanced in ways I won't get into, but he's far from perfect and the hypocrisy frustrates me to no end. She frequently suggests I need to stop dating in general, that I shouldn't need a relationship to be happy and that I should be happy single before even attempting to date. She's told me I have a "broken picker" and attract the wrong types, etc.

She's also made comments when I've gone through hard breakups--she's told me in so many words that she was right about him and that she saw the flags all along and that next time something like this happens I'll have to say that she was right (in so many words). These comments aren't just reserved for relationships--a few months after getting my heart broken by some dude a couple of years ago, I saw the scene of a really terrible car wreck where a child I knew died and understandably felt shaken up and traumatized by the whole thing. She told me a few weeks after that happened that I was reacting more to it (I don't remember the exact wording but that was the implication) because I still wasn't over my ex. To this day that was very much the worst thing I've ever seen and my reaction is in no way connected to my prior breakup. It's gotten to the point where I just no longer tell her things related to dating or otherwise because I can't handle the critical comments. She's also hard to disagree with and will argue with me if I disagree at all, even over something small (say--the best kind of shampoo for my hair) so I try to placate her by pretending to agree with things at times because I don't feel like arguing.

Of course that sounds very bad but the flip side is that she can be wonderfully supportive and make me feel validated in a way no one else can. At one point I felt I was drinking too much and wanted to cut back but didn't even know where to begin doing so. I talked to some other friends who were frankly kind of dismissive and didn't seem to get the problem--I have a master's and a good job and support myself, so they didn't seem to think it was possible that I had a drinking problem on top of all that. But B got it and took the time to talk to me and game plan a way to cut back. She was the only person to make me really feel seen and validated when that was going on. I also went through a long-distance move and while my other friends offered more superficial supportive comments ("you'll love it! It'll be great!" etc) B actually acknowledged that I may not love it and that's ok which really made me feel heard in a way no one else did. It's hard to balance that with her--at times she's wonderfully supportive and at others she makes me feel like shit.

But something happened recently that really has me questioning my friendship with her. I have these two other good friends, A and C, who have been dating for 8 years. B does not know them--they live hundreds of miles apart and have never met. These are entirely separate friendships. Basically, C confessed having feelings for me recently and came onto me, which of course made me feel very uncomfortable and unsure of how to proceed. I just moved away from these friends (A and C), so I've kind of accepted that I may need to cut my losses with them because wtf not trying to get involved with that, but of course we were close and C has been nothing but a kind, good friend so having this come out of no where with him was strange and disorienting and hard.

I confided this all in B, hoping for support, and she asked if I was going to tell A. I am not. Maybe that's wrong but I have my reasons--A and C aren't the most mature people, especially when it comes to their relationship. We have a lot of mutual friends (we were basically in a small friend group together) and if I say anything it will BLOW UP with C blowing up my phone absolutely livid at me and A contacting me understandably upset and our mutual friends would undoubtedly find out and start contacting me as well trying to figure out what happened and I just CAN'T, you guys. I'm starting over here and I just can't take that on. This is all a red herring--this question is about B--but my point is I made up my mind on cutting my losses here instead of telling A. I have valid reasons and I wasn't asking for her advice or opinion on it.

B immediately started pressuring me to tell A, and when I told her I had made up my mind (I had not asked for advice or her opinion on that) she pushed and eventually told me that she would stop being friends with me if she were A. She never once asked why I'm not going to say anything right now or really offered any support at all. She just pushed me to tell A and when I shut that down for the fifth time she changed the subject.

And I just... snapped a bit, I guess. I've really worked hard to create a nonjudgmental space in this relationship for her, to listen and offer support even when I think she's making questionable choices, and she is just incapable of doing that for me. The one I tried to talked to her about it she got defensive and said that this is just who she is, that she can't sugarcoat things and she's not going to change herself, which felt really manipulative to me. I was asking her to be less judgmental, not change who she is as a person, and it felt like she twisted it in a way that made me look bad.

So I don't know what to do. I don't feel like I can talk to her. I don't want to argue about it or be manipulated. I suppose I could just pull back, but I've tried that and somehow always end up back here. In spite of flaws, I care about her and really enjoy parts of the friendship and hate to give up the good because of the bad. When I pull back I just end up missing her after a while. I guess I'm just looking for outside perspectives on all of this--does it sound like an unhealthy friendship, or am I tired and stressed and overreacting? Is pulling back from her really the best way to handle this? What would you do?

Thanks in advance.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (24 answers total)

Of course that sounds very bad but the flip side is that she can be wonderfully supportive and make me feel validated in a way no one else can.

I'll be very honest I only skimmed whatever friend trio interpersonal mess is currently going on but this is my takeaway:

This friend sounds like a poop milkshake, and it's time to move on.
posted by phunniemee at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2022 [29 favorites]

There is a huge difference between having friends who are honest and call you out on your shit, and friends who make you feel like shit.

The decades-long friendships are always the hardest to let go of. Leaving aside all of B's own mess that you reference, what matters is the way she makes you feel -- which is very clear to this reader.

You have this internet stranger's permission to be kinder to yourself in who you let in your life.
posted by archimago at 10:28 AM on March 14, 2022 [7 favorites]

I'll note that the examples you cite of her being perceptive and supportive still rely on her being judgmental and negative—they just happen to be cases where you find that accurate and validating. Being the only one to think you had a drinking problem and the only one to think you might hate your move is not functionally different from being the only one to think you have bad taste in men or the only one to think you're not over your ex, they just align better with your self-concept. In all cases she sees the worst in you, and she may be right twice a day, but that doesn't make it healthy.
posted by babelfish at 10:36 AM on March 14, 2022 [50 favorites]

we're both in our late 20s now

Yeah, this happens a lot in your late 20s. Keep in mind that brain development doesn't really finish until 25ish, and frankly a lot of people still have childish personality habits that will persist until they mature emotionally - it sounds like you're further down that road than your friend is. Or friends are, actually, considering the other ones.

Contrary to most childhood hype, friends aren't actually forever for the most part. A lot of friends are going to be critical to a certain season of your life and then your paths will diverge. I strongly suggest not throwing a big breakup over this, though, because you'll be surprised how paths sometimes re-merge later with both of you in very different places. Slow fade, try to find some stuff for you to do where you can foment some new friendships.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:44 AM on March 14, 2022 [15 favorites]

I have had a friendship somewhat like this. it was wonderful in many ways, but so much judgement!! we grew apart and reached an impasse after several years of friendship, and ultimately stopped having any interaction (we tried to 'process' and figure things out but didn't make any headway). I have 0 regrets about this friendship ending, even though 20+ years later I still think about her more often than you might imagine.

its a poop milkshake, for sure.
posted by supermedusa at 10:59 AM on March 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

Just as a romantic relationship doesn't need to be constant shrieking misery in order to warrant breaking up, a friendship doesn't need to be devoid of good qualities to warrant ending, or at least creating some significant distance. You don't need to justify anything here, or be "unhappy enough" for it to be ok to conclude this friendship isn't good for you.
posted by theotherdurassister at 10:59 AM on March 14, 2022

If you're writing this much about whether to remain friends with someone, the odds are "no" is the best answer. At least, "no" unless you and said friend are willing to put some real work into the relationship.

But I also read the specifics which also point to "no." You're putting up boundaries, they're not respected. It seems like you're describing a lot of conflict for what should be fairly conflict-free. Of course people might have fights in long-term friendships, but this seems like a lot.
posted by jzb at 11:03 AM on March 14, 2022

This friendship sounds exhausting, even before you got to the turning point. I would let it go.
posted by Ragged Richard at 11:05 AM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

I saw the same pattern babelfish notes. Somehow she seems to always want to interact with you from a position of superiority- which can take the form of being compassionate when you’re having a hard time (e.g. the move and drinking, which is beneficial to you!) or trying to convince you you have a problem that doesn’t exist or are doing things wrong when you aren’t (e.g. your dating history). Either way, she needs to be Right and you’re Wrong. Whatever is driving this in her (long-standing patterns in your friendship, insecurity in herself, doesn’t really matter!) it’s not good for you.
posted by MadamM at 11:06 AM on March 14, 2022 [10 favorites]

Err... what? This person
* makes lifestyle choices you ethically disagree with
* argues with you over the smallest choices you make for yourself, even what type of shampoo you use
* belittles your trauma
* only shows interest in helping you when it's something that makes her feel more "together" than you, i.e. helping you cut down on drinking

Sounds more like an enemy than a friend.

When I pull back I just end up missing her after a while. If you're going to put less energy into this friendship you need to put more energy into other friendships and/or pastimes. Or, if you miss her, remember the crappy things too. In that way it's like quitting a habit - hard because of the loneliness and need for comfort/familiarity but there are rewards to pushing past the discomfort. I'll do the MeFi thing and also recommend therapy for both your friendship with B *and* to move past the other friendship, which doesn't seem healthy for you either.
posted by rogerroger at 11:06 AM on March 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

This is the time of life, I think, when you start to realize that you don’t have to keep being friends with people just because you’ve known them for a long time. Adulthood is hard enough without having constant drama in your friendships. I’m 45 now and can’t even imagine voluntarily keeping someone in my life who talked to me the way this woman talks to you.
posted by something something at 11:13 AM on March 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

You could compartmentalize a LOT to keep this friendship. I.e. never, ever talking about dating, relationships, other friendships, issues that you're having with other friends, mundane stuff like shampoo and whatever else. Only talk to her when you need help and no one else is getting it. i.e. with stopping drinking and moving. But even then it's a shot in the dark about whether she'll be helpful or judgemental. Would she help you if you were going through a stressful time at work, were fired, had trouble getting another job for example? Do you feel like you can trust her with something like that?

Anyway, you're in your late 20s - this is a big transition period for a lot of people. If you think about the life changes in your 30s that are going to happen to you soon - career stuff, maybe buying a house/travelling/getting a long-term partner/committing to singledom/maybe having a baby/committing to a child-free life/parents getting older/becoming an auntie (to siblings' or friends' kids; maybe you are one already) - do you want her with you on this journey? Maybe in principle yes, but realistically speaking?

Late 20s is also a time for a lot of people to reevaluate where their life is going, what's working and not, and where they need to cut out people who aren't supportive. FWIW, I think you should drop her.
posted by foxjacket at 11:14 AM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

The relationship you're describing looks an awful lot more like you're being used as some sort of emotional punching bag than anything I'd recognize as friendship.

I don't feel like I can talk to her.

Then you're not friends.

I'm sorry to be this blunt about it, but you're not friends.
posted by mhoye at 11:23 AM on March 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

If you'd stripped all relationship signifiers from this question, I’d guess she was your bossy and horribly over-identified older sister.

Because she's acting like the relationship is unbreakable, and like she can’t really grasp that you are a separate human being and not an extension of her.

But I also think she loves you and is not likely to abandon you when times are hard, and I see those two things as extremely valuable, and very, very difficult to replace when they’re gone.

If I were you I would try to muddle on, accept her love and accept her for who she is, and reject her judgements of the way you are living your life, which is what little sisters so often have to do.
posted by jamjam at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

To me—an older outsider—this sounds like a really toxic relationship. Let it go.

This is generalizing and everyone is different, but: In late teens to early 20s, people often form sort of para-family relationships with other people their age. It's a natural part of getting older, leaving home. A replacement for the childhood family structure. A lot of these friendships amount to hanging out because these are "your" people, your tribe. It works for a while. As you reach late 20s, you become more different and drift apart—usually, not always.

Go ahead and drift apart. Find new people. This might sound condescending coming from a 51 year old cis man, but I'm answering your question based on my experience. I experienced several of these situations around your age. I drifted away from old friends because we just weren't compatible anymore. It happens, and this is no judgement on you at all. Best of luck.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:22 PM on March 14, 2022 [7 favorites]

Ooof, so much here. Your post reminds me of a certain genre of relationship AskMe's where someone lays out a laundry list of problems they have with their partner and then pivots to "But...they are nice to me!" as though that should be enough to absolve everything. And like, okay, it's normal to like it when people are nice to you, but that's a low bar - you want to be intimate (whether platonically or romantically) with people who are nice to you *and* who are generally good people aligned with your values. There is so much here that isn't working for you to make this friendship not worth it- being subjected to her racist and deceitful boyfriend is bad enough. If making a hard break is hard, I would at least restrict yourself to seeing her no more than once a month - I think you'll find if you invest your time elsewhere that in time you'll make new friends and will stop missing her.

As others have said, don't feel too bad if you find yourself ending friendships in your late 20s- pretty much everyone goes through a period around this time when it becomes apparent that some of the people they found "fun" in their early 20s are not actually people they want in their lives forever.
posted by coffeecat at 1:36 PM on March 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

I normally don't "tldr" things, but I hit "tldr" very quickly on the list of awful things B does, halfway through the first paragraph of how she is about dating apps and her shitty boyfriend. Do you really want to keep her?
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:44 PM on March 14, 2022

Is pulling back from her really the best way to handle this?

yeah, because she's not wrong now but she's been wrong and mean so many times that even when she's handing out good advice and not abuse, it's no good to you. there is nothing she can offer you, even if she changed. the friendship well is poisoned, the friendship tree is barren, etc. etc.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:54 PM on March 14, 2022

Some amount of this negative stuff (being judgmental about like ONE thing about your life and not great at hiding it, or being too pushy about advice) would be okay, but the problems are: (1) it's happening to a degree that it's disrespectful, like she doesn't see you two as equals, (2) you don't feel you can talk about it with her to improve your relationship with her, and (3) you can't predict it. In your last example, you thought you'd be getting the good side of her, but you got the judgmental side of her. To me, this would be enough to really try for a slow fade. The best way for that to happen is to bring in a lot of new energy and then really question myself when I want to reach out. (Am I *sure* I want to risk the judgment and criticism now? Do I really think I'll get her supportive side?)

One theme I notice is that she's critical. She's supportive about efforts to improve or change your life, but when you want validation about your current life or the fact that you're imperfect or not going to take on a certain battle, she's not really there for you. It depends on your value system, but I don't want a friend whose view of me is that I need to improve / change / take the hard road and who argues with me when I'm willing to accept things as they are. But this is just my take after reading 1000 words about her, so it may be off-base.

You could try asking for what you want, maybe even presenting a request for change in the relationship as a self-improvement thing (e.g., that you're trying to practice more complete acceptance of yourself or trying to really bring positive energy into your life and keep out criticism -- and so you want to ask her to support you by being positive and supportive and keeping criticism to herself). Doubt it'd work and it's a little manipulative / codependent to think "oh maybe if I just ask for what I want in exactly the perfect way, she'll hear it and stop being over-critical." But maybe it's worth a try if you can do it in a way that is fundamentally truthful and honest.

I think there are two schools of thought here. One is, if someone is being mean to you, it's really not your job to teach them how to stop. It takes too long, is unlikely to work, and you can walk away and find people who treat you more nicely with far less effort. But if this relationship is really important, maybe it's worth a try. The fact that you don't think you could just ask her for this and have your feelings be heard and cared about is pretty significant, but if you think the relationship is worth fighting for, you could just try asking for what you want respectfully but more and more boldly. Maybe it'll destroy the relationship, but so will giving up without asking for it. Maybe she'll surprise you. More likely she'll try, feel fake, burst out with her real critical feelings again. But either way, you might learn something in the process -- this feels like a turning point in your life when you are wanting to better define what you want out of friendship, and this could be a way to learn about it.
posted by slidell at 3:03 PM on March 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

B loves the Dra-mah and causes you to suffer for their entrainment; C shouldn't have tried it on with you, what a dick (unless you can both consent and enjoy being adults, they're over-reaching). B loves the dra-mah so much that they want to see what happens when you blow it up with A.

C is going to destroy their relationship with A because C's a dick, and you don't need to be involved. Many early-life relationships don't persist as we all change and keep growing.

Letting this go? Find good people. Look out for the helpers around the things you do in your new setting. Breathe. They're all their own adults, it's not your circus and they're not your monkeys.
posted by k3ninho at 4:24 PM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

I agree with the people saying it's better to gradually change the tone of the friendship than just dump it. People seem to advise the nuclear option a lot on here but if there is a way to take steps to improve this friendship, why not try those first?

She sounds like the type of friend who has a negative outlook on life and struggles and suffers a lot on things that other people find easy. But for that reason she seems like someone who really will be there for you in hard times, and who will be real with you when you need her to be.

From the outside she does seem to have some distasteful habits and a difficult personality and probably is not the most popular person in the world. Not that this is a reason to stay friends in itself, but for your own conscience's sake, do consider in advance how heartbreaking it will probably be for her if you do end the friendship, and how guilty and awful you may (or may not) feel.

Honestly it does seem like she projects a lot of her own insecurities onto you, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the worst offence in the world. For me, I do have a friend that does this at times (and like yours, she does feel a bit like a big sister to me). At times it used to bother me a bit, but in the overal picture of our friendship, I know she does respect me and value me, I don't really feel hurt or threatened by what she says, and I know it's done more out of habit and familiarity rather than real judgement. I know this because of her actions and behavior over the years. In your case, would you say the friend's behavior matches the rude words? Or is the behaviour fine and it's only the words that are annoying?

If it's the latter then it's probably worth it to try and develop equanimity towards her when she says these things, because she's being really real with you and telling you the honest truth about what she feels. That leads me to think that she might be a true friend disguised as an annoying or socially awkward person. In my experience the best way to develop that equanimity is to not see each other too often and to spend time with lots of other friends. This lets you appreciate what she brings to your life but not get overwhelmed by her annoying aspects. Also finding a handful of people to depend on for advice, so that you can easily shrug off the weird advice she tends to give you. One other thing you can try to do is when you do see her, keep it light and fun. Plan fun activities and explore new restaurants and experiences so you have something to focus on besides inner turmoil, and you can create new and positive memories together.
posted by winterportage at 6:40 PM on March 14, 2022

I mean, yes, this doesn't sound functional and she's constantly critical.
She's also much better at being critical of you than you are at defending yourself, so I don't see that changing, buuuut, sometimes I have seen people manage to back off a bit when you manage to turn it round every, single, time.
Which is exhausting BTW.

But yeah, you do realise she's not *just* being a hypocrite, she's actually sooo far past that that she's displacing all her own relationship issues onto you?

So *sometimes* you can shut that down by just turning it around every, single, time.
Whenever she says anything critical about you and relationships, don't defend or go into it, just point out in a weirdly bright and chirpy way, that she's actually talking about her own relationship issues, not yours. Refuse to engage, just repeat that she's talking about her own relationship issues, and yes it may drive her nuts.
She thinks you have a broken picker? Yes, she does, but that's about her relationships, not about you.
Missing red flags? Yes, she is doing that in her relationship, but that's not about you.
She insists that you need to tell A? Well you're not actually having an affair with C, and are not going to keep up communication with them, but it's interesting to hear that that's what she thinks she should be doing with her boyfriend's wife, because again, this is clearly about her relationship and not about you.
Presented with as bright and chirpy a manner as possible, even if that's disconcerting. Especially so. No anger, nothing to get a hold on, just a turn around.


The thing is, I might be able to pull this off. But your friend is very good at being critical of you and keeps managing to judo turn things around on you.
This will only work if you can go into it with the idea that you're just letting what she says roll off like water off a duck's back because it's really, truly, *not about you* and turn it back to her.
Don't address individual points or defences, just repeat that you've realised everything she's saying sounds more like its about her own relationship issues and you're tired of her taking out her own issues on you.
If you don't think you can do that, then yeah, just back off from the friendship.

It's also OK for her to get upset. She's been making you upset. You need her to back off one way or another, and the reason this can work is that given how deeply in denial she is and how she keeps taking it out on you, she won't *want* you to hold up a mirror to her every single time she does this, because she doesn't want to look at herself this way.

Hold the mirror up. Either she'll back off from this type of criticism, or she'll back off from the friendship, and honestly either outcome is better for you.


This tactic has been tragically effective for me with a relative who would criticise me in similar ways, and I just started brightly and cheerily pointing out that maybe I got 'whatever the criticism was' from them. Which was understating the case honestly because all the criticisms were more true for them, but oddly it actually caused them to pause, be more introspective, and back off. Or even acknowledge that that was true (because it was).


And most importantly, you value this woman's friendship so you've clearly been taking these things she's been saying to heart - but she's not being valid or true or accurate! She's being *ridiculous* because none of these things are about you! They are about *her*.
These are not accurate criticisms for you, and they are not *about* you.
Return To Sender.
You don't need to take them on board.
posted by Elysum at 8:30 PM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

This is too much drama. A friend is like a shoe. They should be comfortable and help you feel shielded from the shit of the world. A friend isn't meant to be a constant source of problems. Protect your energy and level up your friends.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:52 PM on March 14, 2022 [2 favorites]

I haven’t read all the comments, but I encourage you to re-read everything B is saying to you about your relationship and read them as if B is talking to herself. Her judgment of you is her deflected judgment of herself. Her focus on C’s attempted infidelity is because she’s currently dating a C!

Let this friendship go. It sounds exhausting.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:42 AM on March 15, 2022 [1 favorite]