Why do I sign up for stuff and never follow through properly?
November 17, 2021 6:35 AM Subscribe
I find that I keep signing up for courses and seminars related to my interests like language courses, art history and literature courses - essentially short courses offered at various universities. I am always so excited about the courses but when they actually start I find I do minimal work (I barely keep with readings/homework) and find myself getting really stressed. What I am doing wrong? Is there something wrong with me? Just to add that I do learn a lot from these courses and enjoy the intellectual stimulation - but I feel like I am not doing enough (which of course is true).
Response by poster: Huh, I never thought of it this way. It was an issue sometimes for in-person activities pre-Covid but it has actually been a major issue post-Covid because everything I have signed up for is virtual and/or asynchronous.
posted by bigyellowtaxi at 6:43 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bigyellowtaxi at 6:43 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
What I would do is try to schedule an hour for doing the work or however much you need in addition to setting aside to watch the videos and then stick to it. If you can't do that then you don't really have the time for the course.
posted by bleep at 6:50 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 6:50 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Depression and / or ADHD are my guesses. Even low grade depression where you know you want to do these things, but it’s just too much to actually follow through. ADHD would be similar, but it’s more about the mental load to follow through. Also just general burnout and exhaustion could be pushing you this way.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 6:59 AM on November 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by [insert clever name here] at 6:59 AM on November 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
Can you audit so that you don’t have to do the homework? Could take a lot of the pressure and stress off.
posted by imalaowai at 7:00 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by imalaowai at 7:00 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Could it be the same reason that people have lots of edifying documentaries in their Netflix queues, but tend to watch easier, fluffier programs? Or why we sign up for diet plans and gym memberships but end up on the couch eating Cheetos?
Basically, we think our future self will be really into the long-term rewards studying/kale/marathons but when the time comes, short-term rewards are much more appealing.
posted by Frenchy67 at 7:05 AM on November 17, 2021 [13 favorites]
Basically, we think our future self will be really into the long-term rewards studying/kale/marathons but when the time comes, short-term rewards are much more appealing.
posted by Frenchy67 at 7:05 AM on November 17, 2021 [13 favorites]
Ah, yep, for me I suspect my ADHD is part of it, but also apparently I need more accountability to do something that I am choosing vs something that is required of me. I am spending a couple grand on a certification that is usually not offered virtually, but bc of COVID I can do it virtually. And I feel like I am wasting my money because I have not followed through - even putting money in it was not enough of a motivator to dig into things the way I do if something is meeting in person. I'm doing just barely enough to really earn the cert, but it's a topic I really love and I'm frustrated with myself for not sinking into it more.
So one thing I've found that helps me, is to increase the accountability. Is there a way you can present part of the material? I do better at following through if I have to teach or lead some discussion. Can you volunteer to lead a study group/practice group?
I also have considered the body doubling thing to have a sense of more accountability. I think I would feel a bit more embarrassed or guilty or something if I have committed to a block of time for a virtual thing and then goof off or do other things on my screen the whole time while I am intentionally holding space with someone else who is trying to be focused/productive. Focusmate is free for up to three sessions per week.
posted by crunchy potato at 7:09 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
So one thing I've found that helps me, is to increase the accountability. Is there a way you can present part of the material? I do better at following through if I have to teach or lead some discussion. Can you volunteer to lead a study group/practice group?
I also have considered the body doubling thing to have a sense of more accountability. I think I would feel a bit more embarrassed or guilty or something if I have committed to a block of time for a virtual thing and then goof off or do other things on my screen the whole time while I am intentionally holding space with someone else who is trying to be focused/productive. Focusmate is free for up to three sessions per week.
posted by crunchy potato at 7:09 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Could you be holding yourself to some kind of productivity myth? Meaning you feel like you have to "work" on your interests as hard as you would in a job, or in school? I immediately thought of the book Laziness Does Not Exist, which IIRC, suggests that we can enjoy things without "working" on them. I can enjoy cooking without striving to be a master chef. You can enjoy language, art and literature without taking courses on them.
posted by jennypower at 7:41 AM on November 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by jennypower at 7:41 AM on November 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
Just to add that I do learn a lot from these courses and enjoy the intellectual stimulation - but I feel like I am not doing enough.
Enough for what? You're learning and enjoying. Literally what more are you trying to achieve in your very precious leisure time?
posted by DarlingBri at 7:44 AM on November 17, 2021 [14 favorites]
Enough for what? You're learning and enjoying. Literally what more are you trying to achieve in your very precious leisure time?
posted by DarlingBri at 7:44 AM on November 17, 2021 [14 favorites]
> I find myself getting really stressed. What I am doing wrong?
The only thing I see you're doing wrong is letting yourself get stressed regarding your expectations.
> Is there something wrong with me?
Not at all, I think we all have high aspirations for our "ideal selves", which causes this stress.
> I do learn a lot from these courses and enjoy the intellectual stimulation
Great! You should continue doing them.
> I feel like I am not doing enough (which of course is true).
Perhaps you are doing enough, even if it isn't as much as is possible.
posted by Gomez_in_the_South at 7:47 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
The only thing I see you're doing wrong is letting yourself get stressed regarding your expectations.
> Is there something wrong with me?
Not at all, I think we all have high aspirations for our "ideal selves", which causes this stress.
> I do learn a lot from these courses and enjoy the intellectual stimulation
Great! You should continue doing them.
> I feel like I am not doing enough (which of course is true).
Perhaps you are doing enough, even if it isn't as much as is possible.
posted by Gomez_in_the_South at 7:47 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: One way to approach this may be to reframe your definition of adequacy/success/enough. It sounds like these are enrichment courses and activities - things you have interest in and want to learn more about, but it isn't necessarily required for your day to day life. Your definition of enough could simply be that you signed up and listened in, and learned X number of things from the course. Whether you do the assignments or projects or whatever only matters because you think it matters - and you have the luxury of being able to change your mind about that. Embrace the fact that these are not critical to your survival - you are in a position to choose your own amount of effort, and that's awesome. Don't beat yourself up for not being at peak performance in these types of things. If you have a history of being an overachiever, sometimes it can be hard to let go of excellence and just do the minimum, but finding peace with that may bring you some comfort.
posted by _DB_ at 7:51 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by _DB_ at 7:51 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: As far as I can tell this is just incredibly normal (I've never taken a continuing/community ed course that didn't have several people just completely drop out, and I'm sure an even higher percentage of us were slacking off), and unless you are not getting something you *need* out of these courses, or maybe if you feel like you're paying too much for them or something, all you need to do is lower your expectations of what you're going to get out of these courses and your problem is solved.
Or if you do really want to take a deep dive into something, maybe 1) be more selective about choosing your class and 2) and block off some real time (like, not an hour a day, but like take a week's vacation or something) to do it.
posted by mskyle at 8:11 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Or if you do really want to take a deep dive into something, maybe 1) be more selective about choosing your class and 2) and block off some real time (like, not an hour a day, but like take a week's vacation or something) to do it.
posted by mskyle at 8:11 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Hard same here, thanks to ADHD. I am fascinated by all sorts of subjects and there are things I'd love to do, like learn to speak another language, but I am incapable of remaining fascinated enough by things that I must put consistent, difficult work into to actually learn them. I never learned to study because of the combo of ADHD and being quick enough to pick up the bare minimum enough to get by. And because of that, my brain has learned that I can "study" as hard or as long as I possibly can, and the effort expended does not match the results, so why bother?
posted by telophase at 8:12 AM on November 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by telophase at 8:12 AM on November 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Realized I hit post too soon: but this hasn't stopped me from thinking that this time it will be different, so I have tons of 3D and art tutorials purchased and awaiting me, every few years I forget that I'll never actually do any of the homework and sign up for a language course, and my bookshelves are full of books on subjects I'm interested in but never get around to reading more than the first chapter of. SIgh.
posted by telophase at 8:15 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by telophase at 8:15 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm going to take a page out of the cognitive behavioral therapy I did for my ADHD (which, at least in my case and for some things, helped me quite a bit):
Is it that YOU are failing to follow through on the courses -- or is that the courses are failing to meet your actual needs? For instance, if you wanted to gain a skill, is the course providing the incremental achievement on that skill path that is needed to keep anyone interested? Or if you're taking the course for pleasure, is the reading or work they've chosen too dry and uninteresting?
A somewhat tiresome but often helpful thing you can try: Write down what you intend and expect to get out of the class. Now block off sufficient time in your calendar going forward to cover the time you'll need to spend on the class (if you've never done timeblocking before, you might want to block off time for all the other things you need to get done in a day for a realistic picture). Is the amount of time the course requires worth giving up for the benefit you've written down?
You might have ADHD -- we do several things that could possibly be at play here:
- We get VERY enthusiastic about things, and then after a couple of weeks or months that enthusiasm evaporates, and we can't even make ourselves work on the thing anymore.
- We have time blindness in that we have a messed up or missing sense of the passage of time, so we chronically underestimate the amount of time it takes to do things and overestimate the time in a day
- We require more than just a simple "I want to do this" or "I'm required to do this" to be at play. There also needs to be something in the class or activity that provides dopamine hits such as novel ideas and stimuli, a gamification element, regular periodic hard deadlines or other accountability, or the thing has to be something that for some reason puts us in hyperfocus (for me that's 3D modeling, don't know why)
Anyway, if all of that sounds like you, it might be something to consider, if for no other reason than that if you do have ADHD, conventional advice around this sort of thing won't work at all for you, but ADHD-targeted strategies will (at least have a chance of helping).
posted by antinomia at 8:20 AM on November 17, 2021 [15 favorites]
Is it that YOU are failing to follow through on the courses -- or is that the courses are failing to meet your actual needs? For instance, if you wanted to gain a skill, is the course providing the incremental achievement on that skill path that is needed to keep anyone interested? Or if you're taking the course for pleasure, is the reading or work they've chosen too dry and uninteresting?
A somewhat tiresome but often helpful thing you can try: Write down what you intend and expect to get out of the class. Now block off sufficient time in your calendar going forward to cover the time you'll need to spend on the class (if you've never done timeblocking before, you might want to block off time for all the other things you need to get done in a day for a realistic picture). Is the amount of time the course requires worth giving up for the benefit you've written down?
You might have ADHD -- we do several things that could possibly be at play here:
- We get VERY enthusiastic about things, and then after a couple of weeks or months that enthusiasm evaporates, and we can't even make ourselves work on the thing anymore.
- We have time blindness in that we have a messed up or missing sense of the passage of time, so we chronically underestimate the amount of time it takes to do things and overestimate the time in a day
- We require more than just a simple "I want to do this" or "I'm required to do this" to be at play. There also needs to be something in the class or activity that provides dopamine hits such as novel ideas and stimuli, a gamification element, regular periodic hard deadlines or other accountability, or the thing has to be something that for some reason puts us in hyperfocus (for me that's 3D modeling, don't know why)
Anyway, if all of that sounds like you, it might be something to consider, if for no other reason than that if you do have ADHD, conventional advice around this sort of thing won't work at all for you, but ADHD-targeted strategies will (at least have a chance of helping).
posted by antinomia at 8:20 AM on November 17, 2021 [15 favorites]
Celebrating the Ordinary :
About 30 years ago I enrolled in a book-binding course to put some spine into the rough-handled collection of second-hand books I’d picked up at yard-sales during our American years. My teachers, fine craftsmen and enthusiasts, were frequently at me to go beyond the workaday robust library style bindings that I was making week after week. And, to please them, I did create a couple of rather good leather and gold bindings with marbled end-papers. But my real happiness was, over 3 or 4 years of Tuesday evenings, putting a few dozen old books back into a usable state.
I’ve also devoted a lot of time (10one,000 hours?) to samba drumming. One evening at class, the biggest of the samba teachers gave us an earful about how beginners must realise that even the best drummers in the group need to achieve their own goals; that tyros shouldn’t pester the “effectives” too much with requests for help when we were all in the process of becoming better Sambistas; that even the best percussionists needed space to apply themselves to achieve excellence. Naaah, I said to myself; I don’t want to become an excellent sambista, I just want to hang out and do a bit of samba.
That was very liberating. And you know, I did get better. My bindings got more symmetrical, my drumming got less ragged without me striving for excellence. It’s okay not to be centre-forward and I like to see my scientific career as having provided the infrastructure to help others make their great leaps forward.
posted by BobTheScientist at 8:40 AM on November 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
About 30 years ago I enrolled in a book-binding course to put some spine into the rough-handled collection of second-hand books I’d picked up at yard-sales during our American years. My teachers, fine craftsmen and enthusiasts, were frequently at me to go beyond the workaday robust library style bindings that I was making week after week. And, to please them, I did create a couple of rather good leather and gold bindings with marbled end-papers. But my real happiness was, over 3 or 4 years of Tuesday evenings, putting a few dozen old books back into a usable state.
I’ve also devoted a lot of time (
That was very liberating. And you know, I did get better. My bindings got more symmetrical, my drumming got less ragged without me striving for excellence. It’s okay not to be centre-forward and I like to see my scientific career as having provided the infrastructure to help others make their great leaps forward.
posted by BobTheScientist at 8:40 AM on November 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
Overall exhaustion, stress, and just general business can also be a factor. Studying thoroughly demands a lot of attention and intense focus, and that's not always possible or realistic given all the other things going on in life.
I do think the best thing is to actively teach yourself to make peace with it and just enjoy and appreciate the value you do get out of these courses, without stressing out about how much more you hypothetically could be getting. Easier said than done, I know (I have the same issue). But at some point I've started coming to accept that I actually am doing the most I'm capable of given my particular circumstances, and that it's not actually the case that I could sustainably be trying harder or doing more. It seems like it should be - but I've got too many years of empirical evidence pointing to the contrary, and I've finally decided to believe the evidence rather than optimistic ideas about what should be true.
posted by trig at 8:56 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I do think the best thing is to actively teach yourself to make peace with it and just enjoy and appreciate the value you do get out of these courses, without stressing out about how much more you hypothetically could be getting. Easier said than done, I know (I have the same issue). But at some point I've started coming to accept that I actually am doing the most I'm capable of given my particular circumstances, and that it's not actually the case that I could sustainably be trying harder or doing more. It seems like it should be - but I've got too many years of empirical evidence pointing to the contrary, and I've finally decided to believe the evidence rather than optimistic ideas about what should be true.
posted by trig at 8:56 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I struggle with this too and really need deadlines from actual people to keep me accountable.
I've tried doing an indigenous studies course I'm incredibly interested in several times and stalled out in the first few modules. This time I'm doing it with a few coworkers and we meet for a SCHEDULED coffee once a week to discuss the previous week's work. It's working SO well. I have a deadline, I get some social dopamine from it, and I have a tiny bit of fear of feeling shame if I get behind.
posted by Sweetchrysanthemum at 9:03 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've tried doing an indigenous studies course I'm incredibly interested in several times and stalled out in the first few modules. This time I'm doing it with a few coworkers and we meet for a SCHEDULED coffee once a week to discuss the previous week's work. It's working SO well. I have a deadline, I get some social dopamine from it, and I have a tiny bit of fear of feeling shame if I get behind.
posted by Sweetchrysanthemum at 9:03 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Are these Coursera courses? I'd think of that more like reading a book than taking a college course--you're not getting the outside reinforcement to keep to a schedule (a professor that you actually see, classmates, a grade, outside recognition in terms of prestige or money). Totally normal to not finish these things.
posted by kingdead at 9:16 AM on November 17, 2021
posted by kingdead at 9:16 AM on November 17, 2021
Response by poster: Mods, don't want to be seen as thread sitting so please feel free to delete this. Just to clarify (in case it helps anyone else) these aren't Coursera courses but mostly live courses (a couple I have taken have been asynchronous) run by various universities on zoom. Also: these responses have been very helpful, made me understand the situation a lot better.
posted by bigyellowtaxi at 9:23 AM on November 17, 2021
posted by bigyellowtaxi at 9:23 AM on November 17, 2021
What would doing enough look like for you?
You say you enjoy your classes and you are learning things about your chosen topics. So what is missing? If the class is to help you develop a practical skill, are you developing that skill? If the class is to allow you to learn more about a specific topic, are you learning about the topic?
When we grow up education has a clear purpose - get results that signal to potential employers that they should employ you. And then there are specific professions that place explicit burdens on entry by requiring specific professional qualifications. So we go and do the things to get the jobs.
In addition, things like maths, physical skills, practical skills, including playing an instrument simply require you to practice and learn the skill. So you have to practice to get better, to a level where you can do the thing.
But other than that, there is no need to put in effort for the sake of effort. You can learn a lot by just listening and if you manage to do the reading or some of the homework that's a bonus.
Unless learning something is literally your job, the main objective here should be that you enjoy what you do and learn. After finishing my BA, I never tried to do anything other than pass exams be it for my MSc or professional exams or random exams I had to do to keep my job/get licensed in other jurisdictions. If I sign up for things I count it as win if I actually manage to do the sessions. If I managed to do the reading I feel like I'm on the verge of overachieving.
You're an adult with a range of other commitments. Do what you can fit in without getting stressed and enjoy it. Give yourself a pass on whatever would be nice or theoretically possible to do if the day had 48 hrs and you didn't have to eat and sleep. It's all good.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:01 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
You say you enjoy your classes and you are learning things about your chosen topics. So what is missing? If the class is to help you develop a practical skill, are you developing that skill? If the class is to allow you to learn more about a specific topic, are you learning about the topic?
When we grow up education has a clear purpose - get results that signal to potential employers that they should employ you. And then there are specific professions that place explicit burdens on entry by requiring specific professional qualifications. So we go and do the things to get the jobs.
In addition, things like maths, physical skills, practical skills, including playing an instrument simply require you to practice and learn the skill. So you have to practice to get better, to a level where you can do the thing.
But other than that, there is no need to put in effort for the sake of effort. You can learn a lot by just listening and if you manage to do the reading or some of the homework that's a bonus.
Unless learning something is literally your job, the main objective here should be that you enjoy what you do and learn. After finishing my BA, I never tried to do anything other than pass exams be it for my MSc or professional exams or random exams I had to do to keep my job/get licensed in other jurisdictions. If I sign up for things I count it as win if I actually manage to do the sessions. If I managed to do the reading I feel like I'm on the verge of overachieving.
You're an adult with a range of other commitments. Do what you can fit in without getting stressed and enjoy it. Give yourself a pass on whatever would be nice or theoretically possible to do if the day had 48 hrs and you didn't have to eat and sleep. It's all good.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:01 AM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Sometimes for me I like the idea of something more that the reality.
Idea: neuroscience omg!
Reality: sodium ions cause a cellular potential difference such that zzzzzzzzz
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:01 AM on November 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Idea: neuroscience omg!
Reality: sodium ions cause a cellular potential difference such that zzzzzzzzz
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:01 AM on November 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I wonder if there's a mismatch between the kind of casual learning it sounds like you're looking for, and the more formal courses you're signing up for.
What I mean is; there are a ton of photography courses that are around me that I'm tempted to sign up for. And there are also a couple of low-stress and chill monthly "photo walks" in the city that I end up signing up for instead. And in the long run, I think that's the better approach - because I know that I do better with a lower-pressure, lower-stress method of learning this particular skill - there's no grade, there's no homework, it's just a no-pressure chance to get me out and practicing, and if I have a quick question about something it's a matter of just taking someone aside and "Hey, looks like you have the same camera I do - how do you reset the aperture? I've never been able to figure out how to do that." I still get the same information, but more important I get the hands-on practice that I know works better for me.
Similarly, there's a program in New York called Brooklyn Brainery where they do sort of chill, one-and-done courses - where there isn't any homework, you just learn random stuff. I've been to lectures on stuff like the history of ice cream or the history of the Brooklyn Waterfront, I've dipped my toe into a storytelling class and a shibori tie-dye class, and if I screw up there's no grade so it's okay.
This is the kind of learning I want to do these days and the kind of learning I do better at - I hear about cool shit, but I don't have to sweat it about a grade. If I really want to pursue something I just have to get out and do it, and that's what the photo walk meetup helps me do. And I'm not stressing about homework, so it's all fun.
Maybe that would work better?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
What I mean is; there are a ton of photography courses that are around me that I'm tempted to sign up for. And there are also a couple of low-stress and chill monthly "photo walks" in the city that I end up signing up for instead. And in the long run, I think that's the better approach - because I know that I do better with a lower-pressure, lower-stress method of learning this particular skill - there's no grade, there's no homework, it's just a no-pressure chance to get me out and practicing, and if I have a quick question about something it's a matter of just taking someone aside and "Hey, looks like you have the same camera I do - how do you reset the aperture? I've never been able to figure out how to do that." I still get the same information, but more important I get the hands-on practice that I know works better for me.
Similarly, there's a program in New York called Brooklyn Brainery where they do sort of chill, one-and-done courses - where there isn't any homework, you just learn random stuff. I've been to lectures on stuff like the history of ice cream or the history of the Brooklyn Waterfront, I've dipped my toe into a storytelling class and a shibori tie-dye class, and if I screw up there's no grade so it's okay.
This is the kind of learning I want to do these days and the kind of learning I do better at - I hear about cool shit, but I don't have to sweat it about a grade. If I really want to pursue something I just have to get out and do it, and that's what the photo walk meetup helps me do. And I'm not stressing about homework, so it's all fun.
Maybe that would work better?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: > language courses, art history and literature courses
You know, it’s totally fine to relax and just watch some documentaries and read some books to get that same knowledge. You haven’t mentioned any direct career benefit to a certification in anything technical, so I don’t see a reason to put yourself through having to write papers on the stuff. Or yeah audit the courses.
Language courses = different - but honestly, I think for that better to do some kind of immersion experience (like go somewhere on a holiday, and take classes there).
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:20 PM on November 17, 2021
You know, it’s totally fine to relax and just watch some documentaries and read some books to get that same knowledge. You haven’t mentioned any direct career benefit to a certification in anything technical, so I don’t see a reason to put yourself through having to write papers on the stuff. Or yeah audit the courses.
Language courses = different - but honestly, I think for that better to do some kind of immersion experience (like go somewhere on a holiday, and take classes there).
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:20 PM on November 17, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by crunchy potato at 6:37 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]