Empathy failure?
July 31, 2021 3:02 PM Subscribe
I have a hard time putting myself into someone else's shoes when it comes to physical feelings. When I'm full, I can't imagine being hungry. When I'm hot, I can't imagine feeling cold. When I'm feeling okay, I have to force myself to register intellectually that because the other person has a headache they might not want to do XYZ.
This empathy failure extends to relating to future me. I have a hard time picking out clothes for tomorrow when the temperature's going to drop. And after 20+ years, I am still full of disbelief when my husband says we need to pack sandwiches for a hike that extends past lunchtime. I literally cannot imagine being hungry.
But I just really feel guilty when one of my kids hurts her knee and I have to...pretend to empathize because I'm not feeling it. And sort of intellectually consider what that means and how I should be reacting.
Luckily, this isn't the case with non-physical issues. I mean, I'm fairly good at relating to people's complex feelings of all kinds, and it all seems to come naturally.
Am I borked? Is this a thing?
This empathy failure extends to relating to future me. I have a hard time picking out clothes for tomorrow when the temperature's going to drop. And after 20+ years, I am still full of disbelief when my husband says we need to pack sandwiches for a hike that extends past lunchtime. I literally cannot imagine being hungry.
But I just really feel guilty when one of my kids hurts her knee and I have to...pretend to empathize because I'm not feeling it. And sort of intellectually consider what that means and how I should be reacting.
Luckily, this isn't the case with non-physical issues. I mean, I'm fairly good at relating to people's complex feelings of all kinds, and it all seems to come naturally.
Am I borked? Is this a thing?
Well, I never heard of it and I think it's fascinating. Does it work the other way, too? Like, if you have a headache do you on some mysterious level believe the world has a headache?
I don't think you're borked. I think you're fine if you're good with complex feelings and will just have to remind yourself constantly that your current state is not your always state and is not the state of everybody else in the various kingdoms of living things. Kind of the same way that I have to tell myself that "future me doesn't want to deal with that mess tomorrow when it is twice as nasty, so I'd better do it now," as if I were a two-year-old child but usually then, again as if I were a two-year-old child, I ignore myself and wander away from the mess. (But you won't ignore it when it counts, because it's other people.)
It's got to be a thing, right? It always turns out to be a thing, and if you have it, so must some number of other somebodies. I hope someone chimes in with a name for it.
posted by Don Pepino at 4:49 PM on July 31, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't think you're borked. I think you're fine if you're good with complex feelings and will just have to remind yourself constantly that your current state is not your always state and is not the state of everybody else in the various kingdoms of living things. Kind of the same way that I have to tell myself that "future me doesn't want to deal with that mess tomorrow when it is twice as nasty, so I'd better do it now," as if I were a two-year-old child but usually then, again as if I were a two-year-old child, I ignore myself and wander away from the mess. (But you won't ignore it when it counts, because it's other people.)
It's got to be a thing, right? It always turns out to be a thing, and if you have it, so must some number of other somebodies. I hope someone chimes in with a name for it.
posted by Don Pepino at 4:49 PM on July 31, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe several different things? I don’t think most people imagine the physical sensation of hunger to know that they will become hungry after a few hours…they just know it, the same way they know the sun will set at approximately 8 pm(or whatever).
When my child hurts himself, what hurts me is not imagining the way his injury feels, but imagining what it’s like to be so new to the world that pain is inexplicable and confusing and unpredictable; and also viscerally seeing the hurt expression on his face.
I’m not sure if that is helpful, just wondering if the disconnect is something different than empathy.
posted by acantha at 4:52 PM on July 31, 2021 [3 favorites]
When my child hurts himself, what hurts me is not imagining the way his injury feels, but imagining what it’s like to be so new to the world that pain is inexplicable and confusing and unpredictable; and also viscerally seeing the hurt expression on his face.
I’m not sure if that is helpful, just wondering if the disconnect is something different than empathy.
posted by acantha at 4:52 PM on July 31, 2021 [3 favorites]
This empathy failure extends to relating to future me. I have a hard time picking out clothes for tomorrow when the temperature's going to drop.
What about past you?
A failure of self-compassion is a very common feature of PTSD, and I think that may be what you're experiencing.
posted by jamjam at 4:53 PM on July 31, 2021 [4 favorites]
What about past you?
A failure of self-compassion is a very common feature of PTSD, and I think that may be what you're experiencing.
posted by jamjam at 4:53 PM on July 31, 2021 [4 favorites]
In behavioral science, this is a well-known thing called the hot-cold empathy gap.
posted by unannihilated at 6:25 PM on July 31, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by unannihilated at 6:25 PM on July 31, 2021 [8 favorites]
No bork,
aside other recommendations, some people need to program certain responses or emotions into their behavior. It doesn't mean they're autistic, or a narcissist, or absent of emotion, or borked.
It may mean the person never learned typical responses for certain circumstances, or the development/imprint from parenting/environment was delayed - they placed an atypical response (lack of emotion/response) in place.
The counter to this is conceptualizing the response and practicing the response in real time or alone.
posted by firstdaffodils at 6:37 PM on July 31, 2021 [8 favorites]
aside other recommendations, some people need to program certain responses or emotions into their behavior. It doesn't mean they're autistic, or a narcissist, or absent of emotion, or borked.
It may mean the person never learned typical responses for certain circumstances, or the development/imprint from parenting/environment was delayed - they placed an atypical response (lack of emotion/response) in place.
The counter to this is conceptualizing the response and practicing the response in real time or alone.
posted by firstdaffodils at 6:37 PM on July 31, 2021 [8 favorites]
I’m curious - do you mean that you don’t remember the feelings you felt in the past of being hungry or hurting emotionally or hurting physically? You don’t remember how bad you felt? Or you remember what it felt like but it doesn’t seem like a big deal in the present?
posted by gt2 at 8:00 PM on July 31, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gt2 at 8:00 PM on July 31, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just a stab in the dark, but might it be avoidance? Have you had bad experiences, esp in childhood, of being in a lot of physical pain or discomfort? If you've had any type of trauma related to physical pain, avoidance of thinking about/feeling it more than necessary could be developed coping mechanism.
posted by bearette at 8:10 PM on July 31, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by bearette at 8:10 PM on July 31, 2021 [4 favorites]
We must all have this to some degree; if I’m cold I want to chase my kids and stuff them into sweaters, even if they’re running around like crazies, and while it took me years to figure out future me feels hunger, my husband still forgets to feed the kids if he has a snack out of sync with everyone.
The hack here is to feel your own feelings deeply and then say in the moment “just as I feel this X, so does everyone else”
So for eg, in the middle of a miserable headache “ugh such pain! This is how others feel when they have headaches.” Or “ugh! Stubbed toe! This is the pain my kid feels when they hurt themselves”. Like deeply feel your own pain and imagine somewhere in the world right now someone else has also just stubbed their toe. There’s 7bn of us so it’s very likely. That trains the mind lickety split how to care.
(Also don’t beat yourself up; some kids have HUGE pain responses so you’re empathetic to the overall experience of distress even if you feel little by the way of actual pain empathy)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:52 PM on July 31, 2021 [7 favorites]
The hack here is to feel your own feelings deeply and then say in the moment “just as I feel this X, so does everyone else”
So for eg, in the middle of a miserable headache “ugh such pain! This is how others feel when they have headaches.” Or “ugh! Stubbed toe! This is the pain my kid feels when they hurt themselves”. Like deeply feel your own pain and imagine somewhere in the world right now someone else has also just stubbed their toe. There’s 7bn of us so it’s very likely. That trains the mind lickety split how to care.
(Also don’t beat yourself up; some kids have HUGE pain responses so you’re empathetic to the overall experience of distress even if you feel little by the way of actual pain empathy)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:52 PM on July 31, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't know if this is a thing (I will say it's def not aphantasia because I have that but don't have this). But just to maybe help you feel a bit less weird, my wife definitely has this! She doesn't intellectualize it like you do (which honestly can make it frustrating at times!), but she shares a lot in common with what you described. I should mention that I have a great relationship with her and while sometimes this can rear itself as an annoyance, it's ok! We all have our weird points.
Like others have said, the fact that you think about it and compensate is ready good! I think we all have gaps in empathy or understanding...some more than others. I'm an extremely empathic person and as such my wife definitely also looks to me at times to help calibrate the gaps her in empathy or awareness. Of course, not everyone would be ok with that, but it works for us!
So while I understand that it is unsettling, I just wanted to say that for me and my wife it's been totally ok. To me, the fact that you think about it and try to compensate and stuff is really important. This may feel more fundamental but imo this is something we all have to do. I am a white male -- I've had to consciously deprogram a lot of really fucked up shit! Yeah it's not "I can't conceptualize being hungry," but imo it's all on the same spectrum.
posted by wooh at 2:52 AM on August 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Like others have said, the fact that you think about it and compensate is ready good! I think we all have gaps in empathy or understanding...some more than others. I'm an extremely empathic person and as such my wife definitely also looks to me at times to help calibrate the gaps her in empathy or awareness. Of course, not everyone would be ok with that, but it works for us!
So while I understand that it is unsettling, I just wanted to say that for me and my wife it's been totally ok. To me, the fact that you think about it and try to compensate and stuff is really important. This may feel more fundamental but imo this is something we all have to do. I am a white male -- I've had to consciously deprogram a lot of really fucked up shit! Yeah it's not "I can't conceptualize being hungry," but imo it's all on the same spectrum.
posted by wooh at 2:52 AM on August 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think pretending to empathize and knowing that you need to pretend to empathize is actually really great for your kids because I know someone who reflexively laughs when people hurt themselves in front of them. Which is a nightmare when it is their child. For the child I mean. So it sucks that you need to work around how you feel but it’s also great that you recognize that part when it comes to parenting. In my completely uneducated opinion as a parent and grandparent. Thank you for asking this!
posted by Bella Donna at 6:32 AM on August 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 6:32 AM on August 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I think my first instinctive reaction is always "what's that person making a fuss for, I feel perfectly fine, and therefore their mortal head wound can't be that bad". I'm sorry, this is really embarassing and makes me sound like a two year old.
I always have to take a minute to rationally asses how bad it probably is, what that means and how I should be acting. It makes for a terrible bedside manner, but I'm probably better than most people I know in a crisis with calling ambulances and stuff.
Anyway, to answer some questions:
Yes, it totally works in the other direction as well. When I have a headache, it's hard for me to conceptualize that other people might want to play a board game. I know it rationally. It just doesn't seem fathomable emotionally. It's usually less an issue that way round, though.
It could be avoidance, thought I don't have any bad pain related experiences. I'm not a big fan of having a body in the first place, so there could be something in that.
Thank you very much!
posted by Omnomnom at 7:21 AM on August 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
I always have to take a minute to rationally asses how bad it probably is, what that means and how I should be acting. It makes for a terrible bedside manner, but I'm probably better than most people I know in a crisis with calling ambulances and stuff.
Anyway, to answer some questions:
Yes, it totally works in the other direction as well. When I have a headache, it's hard for me to conceptualize that other people might want to play a board game. I know it rationally. It just doesn't seem fathomable emotionally. It's usually less an issue that way round, though.
It could be avoidance, thought I don't have any bad pain related experiences. I'm not a big fan of having a body in the first place, so there could be something in that.
Thank you very much!
posted by Omnomnom at 7:21 AM on August 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Here’s a wildcard - were your feelings minimized / ignored as a kid? So now you’re like hyper attuned to how you feel, like it gets exaggerated in your mind and takes up all the space, as a way of taking care of and acknowledging yourself? (“Can’t you see I have a HEADACHE???? Why would I ever want a board game?”)
Or like type 4 RHETI personality, huge inner world and thus self preoccupation?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:11 AM on August 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Or like type 4 RHETI personality, huge inner world and thus self preoccupation?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:11 AM on August 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
I find I have a similar gut reaction of, “it can’t be that bad, can it?” when I’m comfortable and my needs are met. I think it has to do with my worry about what it would mean if the other person were suffering. I’m sure there are lots of layers (their pain reminds me I might experience pain, their pain means the world is an unjust and unpredictable place with unavoidable suffering, I’ve had my pain dismissed as over-dramatic so I’m turning that experience onto others, being with someone else who is in pain requires me to activate empathy which is uncomfortable). I don’t think empathy is supposed to be an easy, automatic thing all the time. I think it’s quite challenging to have empathy on purpose when your needs are met and you’re feeling comfortable, because having empathy in that moment requires you to be a little less comfortable. Having the first thought doesn’t make you a bad person. Choosing to be empathetic in response to that thought shows character.
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:09 PM on August 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:09 PM on August 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia
I don't think the lack of, mmm, predictive factual ability? Is very common, no.
posted by Jacen at 3:59 PM on July 31, 2021