How do I withdraw my empathy to be hurt less by people?
February 25, 2019 2:08 AM Subscribe
The world is overwhelming and I just want to hide.
For the last ten years, I've had a variety of recurrent, negative experiences with humans, including physical and emotional abuse from my family, that have led me to have a Voltaire-esque, "humans are naturally evil" view of mankind.
Additionally, with most people, when I have tried to make simple, calm attempts to stand up for myself, after a long time enduring their inappropriate behavior, my attempt is shot down. I instead am often told, in one way or another, my feelings don't matter, and sometimes even presented a list of all the things I have done wrong to them, things I was never previously made aware of. As a result, I feel as though even simple attempts in showing decency towards others is never reciprocated.
My personal experience, combined with the state of the world (climate change, starvation, wars, etc.) have left me feeling completely overwhelmed and inclined to finding a way to ultimately live in reclusion from society all together.
Several years and three therapists later, I've been unable to find understanding with the American mental healthcare system, as my experience has been they care more about medicating and suicide and self-harm prevention than real discussion. As a person of color, I feel this quite deeply.
Resorting to Google has presented lots of articles about being a people pleaser, but I don't believe this fits my personality.
I would like to find a way to be less empathetic so I can be hurt less when people disappoint in the ways described above. I'm resigned to believe that my life will continue to be an "everyone I meet is untrustworthy" scenario no matter how much I try to avoid that belief, since toxic people seem attracted to me like maggots to meat.
But besides either social reclusion (which feels like the best option, but that I believe will end in sadness) or a 100% withdrawal of all compassion and consideration for others (which I feel will lead to anxiety and is probably not possible for me anyway), I'm not sure what to do.
For the last ten years, I've had a variety of recurrent, negative experiences with humans, including physical and emotional abuse from my family, that have led me to have a Voltaire-esque, "humans are naturally evil" view of mankind.
Additionally, with most people, when I have tried to make simple, calm attempts to stand up for myself, after a long time enduring their inappropriate behavior, my attempt is shot down. I instead am often told, in one way or another, my feelings don't matter, and sometimes even presented a list of all the things I have done wrong to them, things I was never previously made aware of. As a result, I feel as though even simple attempts in showing decency towards others is never reciprocated.
My personal experience, combined with the state of the world (climate change, starvation, wars, etc.) have left me feeling completely overwhelmed and inclined to finding a way to ultimately live in reclusion from society all together.
Several years and three therapists later, I've been unable to find understanding with the American mental healthcare system, as my experience has been they care more about medicating and suicide and self-harm prevention than real discussion. As a person of color, I feel this quite deeply.
Resorting to Google has presented lots of articles about being a people pleaser, but I don't believe this fits my personality.
I would like to find a way to be less empathetic so I can be hurt less when people disappoint in the ways described above. I'm resigned to believe that my life will continue to be an "everyone I meet is untrustworthy" scenario no matter how much I try to avoid that belief, since toxic people seem attracted to me like maggots to meat.
But besides either social reclusion (which feels like the best option, but that I believe will end in sadness) or a 100% withdrawal of all compassion and consideration for others (which I feel will lead to anxiety and is probably not possible for me anyway), I'm not sure what to do.
I think that defining your problem as empathy and the behaviors that result in you being taken advantage of as doing any kind of favor or kindness is working against you. It's not the speaking up for yourself that's a problem, it's the long time of enduring unacceptable behavior before that.
It seems like what you need is to slow down the process of getting close to people, spend time as you're getting to know them assessing whether you want them in your life. You could speak up when someone behaves unacceptably, but if you can't--because it's uncomfortable or unsafe, or because you can't bring yourself to for whatever reason--then you can back off of the relationship. You can not put yourself in the position where they can treat you like that again.
This works even with people you are stuck with (coworkers). I mean, you can't prevent a coworker from, say, being late or slacking, but you can take steps to protect yourself from the results if you know it's coming, and you can protect yourself emotionally by having lowered expectations.
I have had occasional people who treat me poorly and whom I put up with for a long time, because they're close to me in other ways. I have also found that knowing who they are, that they are this way, and what kind of behavior I will tolerate in the moment (at what point I will walk away for today) has made it easier to deal with. I'm no longer just in an uncomfortable situation; I'm being patient with someone who's poorly socialized.
I don't know if this will resonate, but I hope it helps.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:38 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
It seems like what you need is to slow down the process of getting close to people, spend time as you're getting to know them assessing whether you want them in your life. You could speak up when someone behaves unacceptably, but if you can't--because it's uncomfortable or unsafe, or because you can't bring yourself to for whatever reason--then you can back off of the relationship. You can not put yourself in the position where they can treat you like that again.
This works even with people you are stuck with (coworkers). I mean, you can't prevent a coworker from, say, being late or slacking, but you can take steps to protect yourself from the results if you know it's coming, and you can protect yourself emotionally by having lowered expectations.
I have had occasional people who treat me poorly and whom I put up with for a long time, because they're close to me in other ways. I have also found that knowing who they are, that they are this way, and what kind of behavior I will tolerate in the moment (at what point I will walk away for today) has made it easier to deal with. I'm no longer just in an uncomfortable situation; I'm being patient with someone who's poorly socialized.
I don't know if this will resonate, but I hope it helps.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:38 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
May I suggest something extremely difficult, but if you can pull it off, astonishingly rewarding?
Keep your empathy, but build a new social network of people who don't treat you like shit.
It will take years, and be very hard, and there will be people who trick you, but you can really find a group of people who are not terrible and will care about you and are similarly empathic and hold each other and support each other against the horrors of the world.
You are not broken. You are a beautiful, living, feeling creature. Don't cut off your nerves, find people that nurtures them.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:42 AM on February 25, 2019 [38 favorites]
Keep your empathy, but build a new social network of people who don't treat you like shit.
It will take years, and be very hard, and there will be people who trick you, but you can really find a group of people who are not terrible and will care about you and are similarly empathic and hold each other and support each other against the horrors of the world.
You are not broken. You are a beautiful, living, feeling creature. Don't cut off your nerves, find people that nurtures them.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:42 AM on February 25, 2019 [38 favorites]
I'm resigned to believe that my life will continue to be an "everyone I meet is untrustworthy" scenario no matter how much I try to avoid that belief, since toxic people seem attracted to me like maggots to meat.
Hey, I’m glad you posted, because I can expand a wee bit on what I answered in what I think was a previous iteration of your question.
I’d suggested volunteering, at a place with a wide demographic of volunteers from different walks of life. I think I was getting at something that other people are touching on here - the fact that there are, genuinely, good people out there but you sound like you’re stuck in a lot of situations that mean you don’t get to meet them. The biggest probably being shared housing - oh lord, I know how exhausting it is to share your home with people who push your buttons, and to not have a great deal of choice about where you live. Or to be in a job where you don’t have a lot of seniority or ‘personal credit’ in the bank, so your ability to push back at assholes is limited. So yeah, trying to find a way you CAN restructure your life a bit to track down some nice people is important.
So volunteering has the following advantages -
*It’s voluntary, so you could try a few places in search of the right fit, you’re not stuck there like a paid job.
*There is, probably, a higher hit rate for decent people. Won’t be 100%, there are idiots everywhere, but in my experience there will always be a sprinkling of people who make you sit back and think “Holy crap, you’re a good person.”
*You’ll get to meet a wide spread of people, shoulder to shoulder as equals. Packing boxes of aid (or whatever) next to... I dunno, a widow, or an asylum seeker, who still gets up every day and finds it in themselves to help others, despite what they’ve lost, can really adjust your sense of what humanity is.
*You just get to feel good about yourself, which is nice.
All that said, I’m not a POC and I’m aware that my experience of the world is probably very different from yours, so if this sounds like privileged nonsense, please just accept my compassion for your situation. Please don’t withdraw from the world if you can find a way not to. God knows, we need as many empathetic people out in the wild as we can get right now.
posted by penguin pie at 5:16 AM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
Hey, I’m glad you posted, because I can expand a wee bit on what I answered in what I think was a previous iteration of your question.
I’d suggested volunteering, at a place with a wide demographic of volunteers from different walks of life. I think I was getting at something that other people are touching on here - the fact that there are, genuinely, good people out there but you sound like you’re stuck in a lot of situations that mean you don’t get to meet them. The biggest probably being shared housing - oh lord, I know how exhausting it is to share your home with people who push your buttons, and to not have a great deal of choice about where you live. Or to be in a job where you don’t have a lot of seniority or ‘personal credit’ in the bank, so your ability to push back at assholes is limited. So yeah, trying to find a way you CAN restructure your life a bit to track down some nice people is important.
So volunteering has the following advantages -
*It’s voluntary, so you could try a few places in search of the right fit, you’re not stuck there like a paid job.
*There is, probably, a higher hit rate for decent people. Won’t be 100%, there are idiots everywhere, but in my experience there will always be a sprinkling of people who make you sit back and think “Holy crap, you’re a good person.”
*You’ll get to meet a wide spread of people, shoulder to shoulder as equals. Packing boxes of aid (or whatever) next to... I dunno, a widow, or an asylum seeker, who still gets up every day and finds it in themselves to help others, despite what they’ve lost, can really adjust your sense of what humanity is.
*You just get to feel good about yourself, which is nice.
All that said, I’m not a POC and I’m aware that my experience of the world is probably very different from yours, so if this sounds like privileged nonsense, please just accept my compassion for your situation. Please don’t withdraw from the world if you can find a way not to. God knows, we need as many empathetic people out in the wild as we can get right now.
posted by penguin pie at 5:16 AM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
The answer to this question lies in your past, really. When we grow up in dysfunctional and abusive families, we often recreate that dynamic by choosing as friends people who will repeat the dance with us - and you also repeat it by accepting their treatment of you long enough that they feel entitled to it.
So, what to do? I agree that changing locales like volunteering somewhere new helps. Look for people who are kind and don’t ignite that little spark in you that feels like attraction but is actually recognition of people who will behave like your family. For me, when I looked for “boring” friends, the quality of my friends improved.
I also agree with asserting your boundaries earlier so if people won’t respect them, they get selected out early. Toxic people will sense the change.
Don’t take the worst people say about you when you confront them as gospel. They are reacting badly, not truth-telling.
In brief - don’t cut off parts of yourself, cut off the jerks.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:31 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
So, what to do? I agree that changing locales like volunteering somewhere new helps. Look for people who are kind and don’t ignite that little spark in you that feels like attraction but is actually recognition of people who will behave like your family. For me, when I looked for “boring” friends, the quality of my friends improved.
I also agree with asserting your boundaries earlier so if people won’t respect them, they get selected out early. Toxic people will sense the change.
Don’t take the worst people say about you when you confront them as gospel. They are reacting badly, not truth-telling.
In brief - don’t cut off parts of yourself, cut off the jerks.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:31 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
I am right there with you, my friend. I was definitely worse a year ago, after a series of betrayals, infidelities, and work related woes, where I became a full-fledged misanthrope and was, quite literally, hiding from the world. The solution, as seanmpuckett said, was to cut out toxic people from my life, 100%. And, honestly, just to hide for a while and become once again in tune with my inner thoughts and feelings. To allow myself to feel all the negative feelings I was outwardly projecting onto some general sense of "the world" and "humanity." I'm now in a better place where I feel safe to be kind and sweet and honest with my emotions and where people aren't constantly pushing the limits of how much abuse I can take regardless of how well I treat them. But holy hell it was a fight. If you're anything like me you probably don't understand WHY people act this way to you and your torment is to not only make it stop but to be given a reason for it. You won't find one, you can only find people who don't treat you like garbage, and they do exist.
As for the world, I'm not a POC so I know I don't experience first hand many of the injustices that come with the current state of the world (and I know that direct, institutional abuse must add on to your interpersonal trauma in ways that feel as though the world ultimately wants you to suffer and disappear), but I tell myself that despite the fact that for every self-motivated person who are destroying the world there is a person who is fighting for it, tooth and nail, in ways I don't see. I tell myself that the 2016 election, along with advances in technology that have made the extent of institutional abuses and corruption salient to the masses, in the US was really just the veil being lifted on all the true evils of the country that we otherwise haven't seen or been avoiding to acknowledge or accept. We've stepped out of that great trauma only to now face it head on. It's difficult for people of a gentle, intelligent nature to accept that others won't do the right thing, but many are trying to do just that. Perhaps try to find solidarity with them? It may not matter in the long run, or we may see great change happening soon, but there are other people like you who aren't giving up.
If you can, go out into nature and really focus on all the minute wonders and beauties of the world. Try to focus on things that ultimately bring YOU joy and are free of the influence and input of others and the world. When you're ready (and only when you're ready), try to place yourself into new social groups, even if it is online, and the moment you feel even a hint of negativity, bolt. Eventually you'll find yourself back to seeing humans as worthy of your time. Maybe not inherently "good" but at least good to you. Humanity may not be ultimately good or evil, but we really are a complicated mess, and we have to navigate it the best we can for ourselves. It's unfortunate and honestly not fair that we have to basically engineer the world around us to keep us safe and happy, rather than the world and people just being that way because they SHOULD be for the common good, but that's the state of things it seems.
posted by Young Kullervo at 5:48 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
As for the world, I'm not a POC so I know I don't experience first hand many of the injustices that come with the current state of the world (and I know that direct, institutional abuse must add on to your interpersonal trauma in ways that feel as though the world ultimately wants you to suffer and disappear), but I tell myself that despite the fact that for every self-motivated person who are destroying the world there is a person who is fighting for it, tooth and nail, in ways I don't see. I tell myself that the 2016 election, along with advances in technology that have made the extent of institutional abuses and corruption salient to the masses, in the US was really just the veil being lifted on all the true evils of the country that we otherwise haven't seen or been avoiding to acknowledge or accept. We've stepped out of that great trauma only to now face it head on. It's difficult for people of a gentle, intelligent nature to accept that others won't do the right thing, but many are trying to do just that. Perhaps try to find solidarity with them? It may not matter in the long run, or we may see great change happening soon, but there are other people like you who aren't giving up.
If you can, go out into nature and really focus on all the minute wonders and beauties of the world. Try to focus on things that ultimately bring YOU joy and are free of the influence and input of others and the world. When you're ready (and only when you're ready), try to place yourself into new social groups, even if it is online, and the moment you feel even a hint of negativity, bolt. Eventually you'll find yourself back to seeing humans as worthy of your time. Maybe not inherently "good" but at least good to you. Humanity may not be ultimately good or evil, but we really are a complicated mess, and we have to navigate it the best we can for ourselves. It's unfortunate and honestly not fair that we have to basically engineer the world around us to keep us safe and happy, rather than the world and people just being that way because they SHOULD be for the common good, but that's the state of things it seems.
posted by Young Kullervo at 5:48 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
result, I feel as though even simple attempts in showing decency towards others is never reciprocated.
I hear you on that. But I don't understand what it has to do with empathy. I'm not empathic so I am probably missing a step, apologies for that.
Do you require reciprocation, or a particular outcome, from other people in order to make your actions worthwhile? That sounds like it could be really disappointing, really often. There's no surefire way to get people to reciprocate much of anything. It's hard to get them to send back Christmas cards, let alone this type of self-sacrifice.
So my thought is, keep in mind who doesn't show up for you, and then stop sacrificing yourself for them. You now know they are not furnishing what you need out of the interaction. It seems like self-sacrifice is important to you, so I'm not going to tell you to stop doing it. And I'm sure you know you don't HAVE to stick around toxic and ungrateful family, so you have chosen to stay with them. Ditto boundaries; if you do not believe in them, I am not here to make you do so.
But hey, that person, and that one, and that one over there, they don't get your 100% effort anymore. That's what they've earned. You can't make them reciprocate, but you can dial down your effort to meet theirs, and then you're mirrored/in sync again.
posted by cage and aquarium at 6:27 AM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
I hear you on that. But I don't understand what it has to do with empathy. I'm not empathic so I am probably missing a step, apologies for that.
Do you require reciprocation, or a particular outcome, from other people in order to make your actions worthwhile? That sounds like it could be really disappointing, really often. There's no surefire way to get people to reciprocate much of anything. It's hard to get them to send back Christmas cards, let alone this type of self-sacrifice.
So my thought is, keep in mind who doesn't show up for you, and then stop sacrificing yourself for them. You now know they are not furnishing what you need out of the interaction. It seems like self-sacrifice is important to you, so I'm not going to tell you to stop doing it. And I'm sure you know you don't HAVE to stick around toxic and ungrateful family, so you have chosen to stay with them. Ditto boundaries; if you do not believe in them, I am not here to make you do so.
But hey, that person, and that one, and that one over there, they don't get your 100% effort anymore. That's what they've earned. You can't make them reciprocate, but you can dial down your effort to meet theirs, and then you're mirrored/in sync again.
posted by cage and aquarium at 6:27 AM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
I could have written this question a decade ago. Then I read Feeling Good. It worked pretty well by itself, and it got my hiney into CBT therapy, which did the rest of the job. It’s like $8. (And it’s not hokey or psycho babble). I’d start there and see if it helps.
posted by suncages at 6:56 AM on February 25, 2019
posted by suncages at 6:56 AM on February 25, 2019
I would like to find a way to be less empathetic so I can be hurt less when people disappoint in the ways described above.
I try to remember to also have empathy for myself. When I recently found a variety of wellness resources posted at the PEN America Online Harassment Field Manual, I liked this quote posted at the top:
posted by Little Dawn at 8:51 AM on February 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
I try to remember to also have empathy for myself. When I recently found a variety of wellness resources posted at the PEN America Online Harassment Field Manual, I liked this quote posted at the top:
Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare.The Field Manual's guide to Radical Self-Care says it channels "Audre Lorde’s acts of self-preservation" and includes a link to advice from a psychologist - it is written for survivors, and it has a lot of generally applicable ideas about self-care that may be helpful to consider.
– Audre Lorde
posted by Little Dawn at 8:51 AM on February 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
This may be totally out of line, since I have been in book recommendation mode here on Ask, but have you read Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower?
I hadn't read Butler until recently and I find her authorial voice so strong. Not exactly lacking empathy, but there is this kind of flat affect - things happen, and the narrator responds to them, without apology and with this sense of mission, compulsion, that is so uncommon in my other reads of first person female narrators.
She's also writing about a world that is on fire (sometimes literally) and which contains people who are empathic to a degree that hurts them. It wouldn't exactly be a comfort read, I imagine. But she was a woman of color writing speculative fiction about a world very much like our present moment, and her narrator never doubts her ability to survive (and in fact plans to lead her world to a new kind of human existence.)
I wish you luck in finding your way through this terrible world we share.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 8:52 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
I hadn't read Butler until recently and I find her authorial voice so strong. Not exactly lacking empathy, but there is this kind of flat affect - things happen, and the narrator responds to them, without apology and with this sense of mission, compulsion, that is so uncommon in my other reads of first person female narrators.
She's also writing about a world that is on fire (sometimes literally) and which contains people who are empathic to a degree that hurts them. It wouldn't exactly be a comfort read, I imagine. But she was a woman of color writing speculative fiction about a world very much like our present moment, and her narrator never doubts her ability to survive (and in fact plans to lead her world to a new kind of human existence.)
I wish you luck in finding your way through this terrible world we share.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 8:52 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Jumping in to clarify some things:
Part of the issue is the lack of belief that there truly are good people in the world. I'm getting the suggestions to go find experiences and people other than those I've been around, but I am honestly of the belief that there aren't any good people out there. I don't know how--or if it's worth risking any more of my emotional health--to put myself out there anymore than I have. After all, how could I expect others to be compassionate and decent if my own family wasn't? Why should I believe anyone will care about me at all?
Also the negative people I have encountered outside of my family have not been relationships I sought out, exactly, but by chance. Coworkers. Someone I meet in dire straights and reminds me of myself, so I take a chance and try to help, and they end up being someone manipulative. Someone I hire to do a job for me who steals my stuff. Nearly all of the roommates I have had over the years, who despite screening still ended up pushing me to tears, criticizing me for not doing things they don't do themselves. Things like that.
I hear you all, but I'm struggling to find that hope and faith. It doesn't feel like it's worth the risk or even possible to trust. I don't know.
And @penguin pie, yes, thank you for expanding and your thoughts. This is in fact a reworded version of the other post.
@Lawn Beaver I have actually ready Parable of the Sower. It was too much for me. I couldn't finish it.
posted by adelaide at 9:44 AM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Part of the issue is the lack of belief that there truly are good people in the world. I'm getting the suggestions to go find experiences and people other than those I've been around, but I am honestly of the belief that there aren't any good people out there. I don't know how--or if it's worth risking any more of my emotional health--to put myself out there anymore than I have. After all, how could I expect others to be compassionate and decent if my own family wasn't? Why should I believe anyone will care about me at all?
Also the negative people I have encountered outside of my family have not been relationships I sought out, exactly, but by chance. Coworkers. Someone I meet in dire straights and reminds me of myself, so I take a chance and try to help, and they end up being someone manipulative. Someone I hire to do a job for me who steals my stuff. Nearly all of the roommates I have had over the years, who despite screening still ended up pushing me to tears, criticizing me for not doing things they don't do themselves. Things like that.
I hear you all, but I'm struggling to find that hope and faith. It doesn't feel like it's worth the risk or even possible to trust. I don't know.
And @penguin pie, yes, thank you for expanding and your thoughts. This is in fact a reworded version of the other post.
@Lawn Beaver I have actually ready Parable of the Sower. It was too much for me. I couldn't finish it.
posted by adelaide at 9:44 AM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Part of the issue is the lack of belief that there truly are good people in the world. I'm getting the suggestions to go find experiences and people other than those I've been around, but I am honestly of the belief that there aren't any good people out there. I don't know how--or if it's worth risking any more of my emotional health--to put myself out there anymore than I have. After all, how could I expect others to be compassionate and decent if my own family wasn't? Why should I believe anyone will care about me at all?
Truly gently...this is child-like thinking. When you were small your family necessarily defined your world. But now you are an adult and you are free to both define what a good person is, and go and find some.
There is a difference, for example, between a good person and a person who will never ever hurt you. Good people sometimes make mistakes. Bad people can be very detached and charming and not hurt specific people. I don't think this distinction between "good people" and "bad people" is serving you well right now.
Maybe you could make a list of traits you want in someone you allow into your middle/inner circle. These could include:
- respects me when I say no
- doesn't ask for more time or energy than I am comfortable giving
- is supportive in words and actions
- if they disagree or challenge me it is done in a respectful way, time, and place
- treats others kindly or well
I also would challenge what you mean by risk your mental health. In this all I can say is slow down. Try finding someone who is "safe" to get coffee with - don't invite them into your deepest thoughts or inner sanctum yet. Go slow on risking what you don't want to lose...but cutting off completely will probably not help your mental wellbeing either.
Don't try to help people out. I used to have a lot of friendships based on me being the 'hero' and they sucked. I now look for relationships where we enjoy spending time together (help does flow, but as a secondary thing.)
Coworkers sometimes suck; read Ask A Manager about this. Hiring people sometimes results in theft but think of all the honest transactions you've had in your life. Roommates, I'll let others comment on but I don't think criticism has to equal "horrendous mental wound" (although it CAN, I am not denying your experience.)
If you don't want to, that's okay, too. It will mean you will have to structure your life either with paid/professional supports or without supports. It will mean you will have to love and enjoy your own company. I love the suggestion above to try nature, or a pet, for that.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:48 AM on February 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
Truly gently...this is child-like thinking. When you were small your family necessarily defined your world. But now you are an adult and you are free to both define what a good person is, and go and find some.
There is a difference, for example, between a good person and a person who will never ever hurt you. Good people sometimes make mistakes. Bad people can be very detached and charming and not hurt specific people. I don't think this distinction between "good people" and "bad people" is serving you well right now.
Maybe you could make a list of traits you want in someone you allow into your middle/inner circle. These could include:
- respects me when I say no
- doesn't ask for more time or energy than I am comfortable giving
- is supportive in words and actions
- if they disagree or challenge me it is done in a respectful way, time, and place
- treats others kindly or well
I also would challenge what you mean by risk your mental health. In this all I can say is slow down. Try finding someone who is "safe" to get coffee with - don't invite them into your deepest thoughts or inner sanctum yet. Go slow on risking what you don't want to lose...but cutting off completely will probably not help your mental wellbeing either.
Don't try to help people out. I used to have a lot of friendships based on me being the 'hero' and they sucked. I now look for relationships where we enjoy spending time together (help does flow, but as a secondary thing.)
Coworkers sometimes suck; read Ask A Manager about this. Hiring people sometimes results in theft but think of all the honest transactions you've had in your life. Roommates, I'll let others comment on but I don't think criticism has to equal "horrendous mental wound" (although it CAN, I am not denying your experience.)
If you don't want to, that's okay, too. It will mean you will have to structure your life either with paid/professional supports or without supports. It will mean you will have to love and enjoy your own company. I love the suggestion above to try nature, or a pet, for that.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:48 AM on February 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
Part of the issue is the lack of belief that there truly are good people in the world.
From a purely navel-gazing philosophical standpoint that statement carries a number of fairly difficult ontological questions.
Luckily we don't have to get into questions of belief or whether "good" and "evil" exist outside human society, and can go straight for the assertion that yes, indeed there are plenty of people who, whatever their motivations for doing so, act in ways that most of us have come to agree are nice or good or what-have-you. Can random internet strangers convince you of that? I dunno.
This thread is full of good advice.
I came from a background where a stranger's (usually unvoiced and often completely assumed or imagined) judgments, opinions, etc. mattered more than those of my intimate family, and it took half my life to really get over it. Perhaps counterintuitively, I only stopped being disappointed by others when I realized that I was being disappointed in myself for not looking out for my own interests first.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:59 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
From a purely navel-gazing philosophical standpoint that statement carries a number of fairly difficult ontological questions.
Luckily we don't have to get into questions of belief or whether "good" and "evil" exist outside human society, and can go straight for the assertion that yes, indeed there are plenty of people who, whatever their motivations for doing so, act in ways that most of us have come to agree are nice or good or what-have-you. Can random internet strangers convince you of that? I dunno.
This thread is full of good advice.
I came from a background where a stranger's (usually unvoiced and often completely assumed or imagined) judgments, opinions, etc. mattered more than those of my intimate family, and it took half my life to really get over it. Perhaps counterintuitively, I only stopped being disappointed by others when I realized that I was being disappointed in myself for not looking out for my own interests first.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:59 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Not a therapist, not even close, but it sounds to me like you have something resembling PTSD. Maybe CPTSD. I used to lurk on r/cptsd and found people there expressing that sort of global hopelessness and sense of futility I felt (still feel sometimes!) about humans. I recommend that site if only for the hit of validation.
You don't have to let anyone in if you don't want to. Obviously you still have to deal with coworkers, bosses, etc. That sucks. But maybe just do the bare minimum of socializing for a while. I would definitely not volunteer for a while. I had a housemate one time who referred to this kind of seclusion as her "anti-people phase." Although if you feel just as bad when you're alone, then something else is going on. DBT and basic distress tolerance skills might help there but I don't really know.
But yeah, this definitely sounds like trauma in some form or another. I know you don't want to go to therapy but this is... what therapy is for. Have you tried seeing a POC therapist? They might be willing and able to dive deeper than white therapists. There's also books, etc., if you don't want to meet with a therapist or can't afford it.
posted by coffeeand at 11:27 AM on February 25, 2019 [8 favorites]
You don't have to let anyone in if you don't want to. Obviously you still have to deal with coworkers, bosses, etc. That sucks. But maybe just do the bare minimum of socializing for a while. I would definitely not volunteer for a while. I had a housemate one time who referred to this kind of seclusion as her "anti-people phase." Although if you feel just as bad when you're alone, then something else is going on. DBT and basic distress tolerance skills might help there but I don't really know.
But yeah, this definitely sounds like trauma in some form or another. I know you don't want to go to therapy but this is... what therapy is for. Have you tried seeing a POC therapist? They might be willing and able to dive deeper than white therapists. There's also books, etc., if you don't want to meet with a therapist or can't afford it.
posted by coffeeand at 11:27 AM on February 25, 2019 [8 favorites]
I have some thoughts on this because I have gone through something similar.
"Additionally, with most people, when I have tried to make simple, calm attempts to stand up for myself, after a long time enduring their inappropriate behavior, my attempt is shot down. I instead am often told, in one way or another, my feelings don't matter, and sometimes even presented a list of all the things I have done wrong to them, things I was never previously made aware of. As a result, I feel as though even simple attempts in showing decency towards others is never reciprocated."
The issue is that people become used to treating you a certain way and once that happens there is automatic reflexive pushback to change the dynamic. I am by habit an overly talkative person and others can find that grating. All my life I have been told this. So when I made a conscious effort to talk less and listen more, imagine my surprise when all of my friends told me it was creepy and weird and I seemed standoffish and they missed the old me. New friends I had just met however and had never known the chatterbox me often told me they appreciated my listening skills and that I didn't dominate the conversation. Likewise when i got schooled on assertiveness and gave it ago with my existing friends, it didn't work. They were used to the dynamic that I am the one who gives in and that they can step on me a bit. Even my nicer friends who would otherwise not be tempted to treat other friends who were assertive that way gave me pushback on my assertiveness because it changed the dynamic. If you want to be able to pull off the assertive personality, you have to roll it out fresh with new people.
Finally, I don't want anything anyone says in this thread to cover the truth that everyone in your life will disappoint you or hurt you at some point in one way or another. We are all humans and we make mistakes and commit sins. That is the risk and cost of being in relationship. There is no magic or calculated way to sidestep that.
posted by TestamentToGrace at 11:38 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
"Additionally, with most people, when I have tried to make simple, calm attempts to stand up for myself, after a long time enduring their inappropriate behavior, my attempt is shot down. I instead am often told, in one way or another, my feelings don't matter, and sometimes even presented a list of all the things I have done wrong to them, things I was never previously made aware of. As a result, I feel as though even simple attempts in showing decency towards others is never reciprocated."
The issue is that people become used to treating you a certain way and once that happens there is automatic reflexive pushback to change the dynamic. I am by habit an overly talkative person and others can find that grating. All my life I have been told this. So when I made a conscious effort to talk less and listen more, imagine my surprise when all of my friends told me it was creepy and weird and I seemed standoffish and they missed the old me. New friends I had just met however and had never known the chatterbox me often told me they appreciated my listening skills and that I didn't dominate the conversation. Likewise when i got schooled on assertiveness and gave it ago with my existing friends, it didn't work. They were used to the dynamic that I am the one who gives in and that they can step on me a bit. Even my nicer friends who would otherwise not be tempted to treat other friends who were assertive that way gave me pushback on my assertiveness because it changed the dynamic. If you want to be able to pull off the assertive personality, you have to roll it out fresh with new people.
Finally, I don't want anything anyone says in this thread to cover the truth that everyone in your life will disappoint you or hurt you at some point in one way or another. We are all humans and we make mistakes and commit sins. That is the risk and cost of being in relationship. There is no magic or calculated way to sidestep that.
posted by TestamentToGrace at 11:38 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
At risk of pointing out the obvious, there are 14 people (so far) in this thread who have responded to your pain with kindness and a desire to help. So, allowing for the fact that everyone contains multitudes and all 14 of us have probably been assholes to someone at some point in our lives, you have 14 people right here (and possibly more to come) who are not totally evil. But I guess your issue is taking the odd observation like that and turning it into a fundamental change in your expectations of the world? CBT, as suggested above, can be useful for that, and you could give it a serious go with Feeling Good without having to go to a counsellor.
posted by penguin pie at 11:55 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by penguin pie at 11:55 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
You mention ill treatment by your family. Are you familiar with the Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) Study? Here's a brief interactive quiz at NPR.
Knowing your ACE score can help when you're working with a therapist well-versed in trauma, as you're unlearning less-than-useful thought processes and responses. It's a matter of building your resilience as an adult, because you didn't get the greatest foundation early on.
Part of the problem is that there are some terrible people in this world. (I firmly believe that good, decent folks predominate; it's just that the bad characters eat up a lot of bandwidth and require monitoring.) Unfortunately, another part of the problem is that you appear as prey to these people. You cannot change them, but you can learn to recognize their awfulness sooner, react appropriately, and protect yourself.
Please try therapy again. In your question, you read as a sensitive, thoughtful, absolutely bone-weary person. You have more options than emotionally numbing yourself for social interaction or becoming a type of recluse. Best wishes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:05 PM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Knowing your ACE score can help when you're working with a therapist well-versed in trauma, as you're unlearning less-than-useful thought processes and responses. It's a matter of building your resilience as an adult, because you didn't get the greatest foundation early on.
Part of the problem is that there are some terrible people in this world. (I firmly believe that good, decent folks predominate; it's just that the bad characters eat up a lot of bandwidth and require monitoring.) Unfortunately, another part of the problem is that you appear as prey to these people. You cannot change them, but you can learn to recognize their awfulness sooner, react appropriately, and protect yourself.
Please try therapy again. In your question, you read as a sensitive, thoughtful, absolutely bone-weary person. You have more options than emotionally numbing yourself for social interaction or becoming a type of recluse. Best wishes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:05 PM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
When you start to feel sorry for someone's situation, and think you should rush in to save them or give them advice, repeat to yourself "This is not my problem. This adult can find her own solution. This is not my problem" At most, tell them 'gee, I hope things get better'. Empathizing too much is exhausting and not truly appreciated by those who have a problem or are complainers in general. Walk away. You don't have to be nice to everybody. You need to make yourself happy first, and then don't give that happiness away.
posted by Enid Lareg at 7:30 AM on February 26, 2019
posted by Enid Lareg at 7:30 AM on February 26, 2019
« Older War and Peace: The subject of history is the life... | Any pointers of a good, economical place to study... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
In terms of a strategy for finding who is safe to talk to about what, I'm really sorry not to be able to offer advice that's more specific. I know what it's like to be so full of urgent unmet social needs and needing to keep things light in order to build rapport and self-confidence rather than to dive in with someone you don't trust. It's really hard and a long slog, and it's something I'm doing at the moment, too.
It's possible that some very lightweight counselling would lighten the load of improving your social connections without being as draining or oriented on fixing you as therapy would be.
But mainly I just wanted to acknowledge that your problem is real, and difficult, and that there are a lot of us in your situation, slowly clawing our way to safety.
posted by ambrosen at 4:18 AM on February 25, 2019 [11 favorites]