Looking for alcoholism resources in Los Angeles CA
January 5, 2021 6:21 PM Subscribe
TL;DR: I am in San Antonio and cannot go to LA. My brother in LA is drinking himself to death. I can't find any local resources to help break the cycle he's in and I'm getting desperate.
Longer version: My brother, call him P, is in a cycle of drinking until he blackout, getting just barely sober enough to find a bottle he's hidden or steal or buy a bottle, then guzzling cheap vodka until he's right back to blackout. It's been going on for at least five days now.
His partner called 911, he spent a bit of time in the ER, and was released (still drunk) back to his home where he immediately drank to blackout the instant she turned her back. She has her own addiction problems and is also pretty much done with him and I can't blame her.
Two days ago he tried to leave and get more vodka, his partner tried to physically stop him and he hit her. He was taken to jail and released on a $50,000 bond. I've urged her to leave, or to send him to a hotel, she refuses and says it wasn't "really" domestic violence. She wants to help him, but I think her own alcoholism is preventing her from doing anything really effective. And he hit her. So she's both done with him and trying to ineffectually help him.
He says he will kill himself if he goes back to jail, and he did have an unsuccessful attempt at suicide eight years ago so I'm really damn worried that he may be telling the truth about that.
He has Kaiser insurance and I have found absolutely no resources at all that can help break this cycle before he dies of alcohol poisoning. The ER is overloaded due to COVID, isn't set up to deal with drunks, and was correct in sending him home, but I don't know what else to call.
I've tried talking to his insurance and they say that if he comes in, and makes an appointment, they have a outpatient group on Zoom he could join. Which might be great later but is no good now.
I found one dry out facility, but it's geared towards homeless people and they only accept people the police refer to them.
The only other option I've found is very expensive rehab places that start at $7,000 and are entirely out of our price range.
Every attempt to get him to stop has failed. He is going to continue drinking until he is stopped, he dies, or he is no longer able to find, steal, or buy more alcohol. And I think he'll die of alcohol poisoning before he runs out.
Is there a resource I can reach out to, or is this a problem that does not have resources other than friends and family?
Longer version: My brother, call him P, is in a cycle of drinking until he blackout, getting just barely sober enough to find a bottle he's hidden or steal or buy a bottle, then guzzling cheap vodka until he's right back to blackout. It's been going on for at least five days now.
His partner called 911, he spent a bit of time in the ER, and was released (still drunk) back to his home where he immediately drank to blackout the instant she turned her back. She has her own addiction problems and is also pretty much done with him and I can't blame her.
Two days ago he tried to leave and get more vodka, his partner tried to physically stop him and he hit her. He was taken to jail and released on a $50,000 bond. I've urged her to leave, or to send him to a hotel, she refuses and says it wasn't "really" domestic violence. She wants to help him, but I think her own alcoholism is preventing her from doing anything really effective. And he hit her. So she's both done with him and trying to ineffectually help him.
He says he will kill himself if he goes back to jail, and he did have an unsuccessful attempt at suicide eight years ago so I'm really damn worried that he may be telling the truth about that.
He has Kaiser insurance and I have found absolutely no resources at all that can help break this cycle before he dies of alcohol poisoning. The ER is overloaded due to COVID, isn't set up to deal with drunks, and was correct in sending him home, but I don't know what else to call.
I've tried talking to his insurance and they say that if he comes in, and makes an appointment, they have a outpatient group on Zoom he could join. Which might be great later but is no good now.
I found one dry out facility, but it's geared towards homeless people and they only accept people the police refer to them.
The only other option I've found is very expensive rehab places that start at $7,000 and are entirely out of our price range.
Every attempt to get him to stop has failed. He is going to continue drinking until he is stopped, he dies, or he is no longer able to find, steal, or buy more alcohol. And I think he'll die of alcohol poisoning before he runs out.
Is there a resource I can reach out to, or is this a problem that does not have resources other than friends and family?
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I watched my stepdad go through something similar. It was beyond brutal. He went to inpatient rehab in Colorado, and his insurance did cover part of it, but he worked for the military as a civilian and his insurance was certainly not Kaiser.
He will need a referral from his primary care physician to get it covered, I believe, but it depends on his insurance policy. If you're not an authorized contact I'm not sure how much information they will give you if you try and set things up for him. Here's some resources about that.
Honestly, I think Al Anon is your best bet for a first step. You certainly wont be the only one in your position there, and they will be able to not only direct you to additional resources but also help you deal with your own emotions surrounding the situation and your relationship with him.
Sincerely, my heart goes out to you. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.
posted by ananci at 6:51 PM on January 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
He will need a referral from his primary care physician to get it covered, I believe, but it depends on his insurance policy. If you're not an authorized contact I'm not sure how much information they will give you if you try and set things up for him. Here's some resources about that.
Honestly, I think Al Anon is your best bet for a first step. You certainly wont be the only one in your position there, and they will be able to not only direct you to additional resources but also help you deal with your own emotions surrounding the situation and your relationship with him.
Sincerely, my heart goes out to you. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.
posted by ananci at 6:51 PM on January 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I know it's absolutely gut-wrenching.
Does your brother have a mental illness (perhaps depression, if he's talking suicide)? If so, perhaps he might consider the Dual Diagnosis program at Harbor UCLA Medical Center in Torrance. It is led by Dr. John Tsuang, a psychiatrist, who also sees patients in private practice -- an option to consider, if there's a waiting list or something. My daughter is an alcoholic who also has mental illness, and is a patient in that program. Until her mental illness was dealt with, she couldn't ever stay on the wagon, but now... well, now we're hopeful. I can attest that Dr. Tsuang is caring and kind, involves the family, and holds the patient accountable.
But my daughter doesn't have insurance, and your brother does, the same kind I have as it happens. Have you tried calling the Kaiser Behavioral Health Helpline (open 24/7) at 1-800-900-3277? They will ask for your brother's medical record number (It's on his Kaiser card, or they can look it up for him). Their job is to give you resources, to let you know what Kaiser can do for you, and going through them fast-tracks that other help, in my experience.
Also, and I should have said this first, if you think your brother is suicidal, he needs to be hospitalized. They will keep him for three days, against his will if necessary, and until a doctor decides he is no longer a threat to himself. The Kaiser psych unit is in Chinatown, downtown LA, but they contract with other hospitals too. It's relatively nice, not horrible. I was an inpatient there and can tell you more about it if you like.
Please feel free to MeMail me if you want more info. My heart goes out to you.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 6:59 PM on January 5, 2021 [11 favorites]
Does your brother have a mental illness (perhaps depression, if he's talking suicide)? If so, perhaps he might consider the Dual Diagnosis program at Harbor UCLA Medical Center in Torrance. It is led by Dr. John Tsuang, a psychiatrist, who also sees patients in private practice -- an option to consider, if there's a waiting list or something. My daughter is an alcoholic who also has mental illness, and is a patient in that program. Until her mental illness was dealt with, she couldn't ever stay on the wagon, but now... well, now we're hopeful. I can attest that Dr. Tsuang is caring and kind, involves the family, and holds the patient accountable.
But my daughter doesn't have insurance, and your brother does, the same kind I have as it happens. Have you tried calling the Kaiser Behavioral Health Helpline (open 24/7) at 1-800-900-3277? They will ask for your brother's medical record number (It's on his Kaiser card, or they can look it up for him). Their job is to give you resources, to let you know what Kaiser can do for you, and going through them fast-tracks that other help, in my experience.
Also, and I should have said this first, if you think your brother is suicidal, he needs to be hospitalized. They will keep him for three days, against his will if necessary, and until a doctor decides he is no longer a threat to himself. The Kaiser psych unit is in Chinatown, downtown LA, but they contract with other hospitals too. It's relatively nice, not horrible. I was an inpatient there and can tell you more about it if you like.
Please feel free to MeMail me if you want more info. My heart goes out to you.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 6:59 PM on January 5, 2021 [11 favorites]
Buddy runs intake for a hospital that include mental health beds, and he gave me:
Los Angles Department of Mental Health
Suicide Prevention and Psych Evaluation Team
800-854-7771
The problem is, he says, getting incredibly drunk is not illegal, so the patient has to pretty much say out loud they are committing suicide with a plan, or they have to voluntarily submit to help. Otherwise a court order is involved.
However, seems like much of the mental health side of his ER is slowing and patiently convincing the person in distress to get to the point where they can be helped somewhat against their will (we're talking convincing them to walk 30 feet into the ER instead of jumping in front of that bus that's literally driving up the street), so this hotline might have some tips on how to get to the "against his will" part.
He also just messaged me that anything on social media/texts/emails/etc that even gives a hint of "I'm trying to drink myself to death" can help with this.
posted by sideshow at 7:04 PM on January 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Los Angles Department of Mental Health
Suicide Prevention and Psych Evaluation Team
800-854-7771
The problem is, he says, getting incredibly drunk is not illegal, so the patient has to pretty much say out loud they are committing suicide with a plan, or they have to voluntarily submit to help. Otherwise a court order is involved.
However, seems like much of the mental health side of his ER is slowing and patiently convincing the person in distress to get to the point where they can be helped somewhat against their will (we're talking convincing them to walk 30 feet into the ER instead of jumping in front of that bus that's literally driving up the street), so this hotline might have some tips on how to get to the "against his will" part.
He also just messaged me that anything on social media/texts/emails/etc that even gives a hint of "I'm trying to drink myself to death" can help with this.
posted by sideshow at 7:04 PM on January 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Actually, he says even words said out loud to a witness can help.
posted by sideshow at 7:05 PM on January 5, 2021
posted by sideshow at 7:05 PM on January 5, 2021
Response by poster: un petit cadeau I called them, they said they'd need to talk to him. And he's mostly incoherent. I'll try again tomorrow. And I don't know how to get him there if he's not capable of walking to an Uber.
pH Indicating Socks and sideshow There's nothing that outright says he's suicidal, so it seems involuntary commitment is out.
The only suicidal thing he's said out loud to me was that if he went back to jail he'd hang himself. I don't think that'd count?
ananci Thanks, I tried AA but (as I about halfway expected) they were pretty useless, they said to take him to a meeting and that was the beginning and end of their help. Hadn't thought to try Al-Anon, I'll check with them, thanks again.
posted by sotonohito at 7:09 PM on January 5, 2021
pH Indicating Socks and sideshow There's nothing that outright says he's suicidal, so it seems involuntary commitment is out.
The only suicidal thing he's said out loud to me was that if he went back to jail he'd hang himself. I don't think that'd count?
ananci Thanks, I tried AA but (as I about halfway expected) they were pretty useless, they said to take him to a meeting and that was the beginning and end of their help. Hadn't thought to try Al-Anon, I'll check with them, thanks again.
posted by sotonohito at 7:09 PM on January 5, 2021
I don't think that'd count?
My main point earlier was that mental health professionals operate every day in the gray area of California law, and they know the tricks of the trade. Let the experts tell you how to make this work. Call the hotline and tell them everything. Let them decide what "counts".
posted by sideshow at 7:23 PM on January 5, 2021 [18 favorites]
My main point earlier was that mental health professionals operate every day in the gray area of California law, and they know the tricks of the trade. Let the experts tell you how to make this work. Call the hotline and tell them everything. Let them decide what "counts".
posted by sideshow at 7:23 PM on January 5, 2021 [18 favorites]
To flesh out my earlier comment about the bus:
My buddy had a patient in extreme distress, so he sent a shuttle to his house to pick him up. The patient got on the shuttle via a family member (somewhat forcibly if I remember correctly), and shuttle pulled within 3 feet of the ER door. Because of CA law, the patient had to go from the shuttle and passed the threshold of the ER door in order for a doctor to put him under care. However, the patient got off the shuttle and went to the middle island of the extremely busy street in front of the hospital, waiting for a bus or trunk to come along so he could jump in front.
Cops showed up, but since the guy was standing there and not screaming "I'm going to kill myself!", their hands were tied. They couldn't just drag him to the ER, and he couldn't get arrested for blocking traffic because he was on the island.
So, psych nurses trained in dealing with suicidal patients went out and convinced the man waiting to jump in front of a bus to come in to rest his legs (or something, I don't remember the details, but some white lies were involved), and the instant he crossed the threshold a doctor appeared and immediately admitted him to the psych ER.
So, call the number and see if LADMH can be the "nurses" in my story convincing your brother to move from the traffic island to the ER to "rest his legs".
posted by sideshow at 7:35 PM on January 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
My buddy had a patient in extreme distress, so he sent a shuttle to his house to pick him up. The patient got on the shuttle via a family member (somewhat forcibly if I remember correctly), and shuttle pulled within 3 feet of the ER door. Because of CA law, the patient had to go from the shuttle and passed the threshold of the ER door in order for a doctor to put him under care. However, the patient got off the shuttle and went to the middle island of the extremely busy street in front of the hospital, waiting for a bus or trunk to come along so he could jump in front.
Cops showed up, but since the guy was standing there and not screaming "I'm going to kill myself!", their hands were tied. They couldn't just drag him to the ER, and he couldn't get arrested for blocking traffic because he was on the island.
So, psych nurses trained in dealing with suicidal patients went out and convinced the man waiting to jump in front of a bus to come in to rest his legs (or something, I don't remember the details, but some white lies were involved), and the instant he crossed the threshold a doctor appeared and immediately admitted him to the psych ER.
So, call the number and see if LADMH can be the "nurses" in my story convincing your brother to move from the traffic island to the ER to "rest his legs".
posted by sideshow at 7:35 PM on January 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
Personally I'd worry less about the alcohol issues than the suicide and it sounds like there's excellent help here. If the amount you think he's drinking is real I find it hard they checked him out of the ER without some sort of medical detox.
1. The girlfriend is an enabler, probably has the same or worse addictions. She's definitely a victim of this fight but I would not believe for a second she was preventing him from drinking. More likely it was a stupid drunken argument or they were on their last $20 and arguing how to spend it. Trying to help him stop drinking is a better narrative. Hopefully him being away seeking mental health will cut her out and she'll find another enabler, you can't control this but depending on medical advice it might be best to separate them.
2. Let doctors and therapists recommend rehab, do not seek this out on your own. It sounds like there's a lot more than just alcohol addiction here and in my opinion punitive rehab doesn't work. Year long, long term managed residences are what I've been told are the best, hardest to find and don't sit well with a lot of well meaning friends and family. There will be relapses but he's monitored and not locked away, this helps him deal with relapses in constructive environments.
3. Don't feel guilty in not being able to pay for expensive rehab, make him pay for it and work with insurance if this is recommended course of action.
4. Seek therapy for yourself. At a certain point it might not get better, don't let it drag you down.
posted by geoff. at 9:59 PM on January 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
1. The girlfriend is an enabler, probably has the same or worse addictions. She's definitely a victim of this fight but I would not believe for a second she was preventing him from drinking. More likely it was a stupid drunken argument or they were on their last $20 and arguing how to spend it. Trying to help him stop drinking is a better narrative. Hopefully him being away seeking mental health will cut her out and she'll find another enabler, you can't control this but depending on medical advice it might be best to separate them.
2. Let doctors and therapists recommend rehab, do not seek this out on your own. It sounds like there's a lot more than just alcohol addiction here and in my opinion punitive rehab doesn't work. Year long, long term managed residences are what I've been told are the best, hardest to find and don't sit well with a lot of well meaning friends and family. There will be relapses but he's monitored and not locked away, this helps him deal with relapses in constructive environments.
3. Don't feel guilty in not being able to pay for expensive rehab, make him pay for it and work with insurance if this is recommended course of action.
4. Seek therapy for yourself. At a certain point it might not get better, don't let it drag you down.
posted by geoff. at 9:59 PM on January 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sorry, reading your post closer it sounds ikea he needs hospitalization/detox. I second calling Kaiser's BH helpline and getting support for navigating their system there. Not going to lie, sometimes in big cities like LA or SF with relatively well developed social systems it almost feels like NOT having insurance makes it much easier to enter substance use treatment (typically you just call a county run BH Access line and they take it from there) but with insurance and Kaiser specifically things can be less straightforward.
posted by flamk at 11:46 PM on January 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by flamk at 11:46 PM on January 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm really sorry you're going through this. But the truth - unpalatable as it may be - is that unless your brother actually wants to stop drinking, nothing you can do, and no amount of money you can spend, is going to achieve this.
I second the recommendation of Al-Anon, which will help you to deal with the effect of your brother's alcoholism on you and your family, and will help you to understand that the only way to help him is to let go.
posted by essexjan at 5:41 AM on January 6, 2021 [19 favorites]
I second the recommendation of Al-Anon, which will help you to deal with the effect of your brother's alcoholism on you and your family, and will help you to understand that the only way to help him is to let go.
posted by essexjan at 5:41 AM on January 6, 2021 [19 favorites]
Response by poster: And update, and thanks:
I managed to talk his partner, and sort of him, through getting with Kaiser's BT group. And then they somehow messed up and he went to a regular Kaiser ER and I lost track of him for most of the afternoon and evening.
Finally I got through. He's at the ER, I contacted him, and then his phone died.
My sister, who is a nurse, managed somehow to get to the staff there and was told that he had been heard by medical professionals at the ER saying his partner and son were gone and he would kill himself. So he's on a hold there until their emergency psych evaluator can get with him. And they can't do a psych eval on him until he's sober.
As of 8:04PM today he's got an IV pumping water into him, a banana bag pumping various vitamin B compounds and potassium into him, and he's probably more sober right this second than he has been for days.
With any luck they will hold him for the 72 hour max and get him truly sober.
And then I have to deal with what essexjan says, which is 100% true. He has to want to stop, he has to do the actual stopping. I can worry, but I can't actually make him stop.
I'll get with Al-Anon and see if they can help me, and the rest of the family, make peace with that.
Thank you all for your help and advice. I greatly appreciate it. Y'all have been exactly what I expected from my fellow MeFites. Thank you.
posted by sotonohito at 6:07 PM on January 6, 2021 [15 favorites]
I managed to talk his partner, and sort of him, through getting with Kaiser's BT group. And then they somehow messed up and he went to a regular Kaiser ER and I lost track of him for most of the afternoon and evening.
Finally I got through. He's at the ER, I contacted him, and then his phone died.
My sister, who is a nurse, managed somehow to get to the staff there and was told that he had been heard by medical professionals at the ER saying his partner and son were gone and he would kill himself. So he's on a hold there until their emergency psych evaluator can get with him. And they can't do a psych eval on him until he's sober.
As of 8:04PM today he's got an IV pumping water into him, a banana bag pumping various vitamin B compounds and potassium into him, and he's probably more sober right this second than he has been for days.
With any luck they will hold him for the 72 hour max and get him truly sober.
And then I have to deal with what essexjan says, which is 100% true. He has to want to stop, he has to do the actual stopping. I can worry, but I can't actually make him stop.
I'll get with Al-Anon and see if they can help me, and the rest of the family, make peace with that.
Thank you all for your help and advice. I greatly appreciate it. Y'all have been exactly what I expected from my fellow MeFites. Thank you.
posted by sotonohito at 6:07 PM on January 6, 2021 [15 favorites]
« Older Adventures with a formerly distant but now quite... | What are the current social problems and social... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by un petit cadeau at 6:49 PM on January 5, 2021