Moving out and backlash from family (an update)

December 23, 2020 1:31 AM

Hi everyone, I hope you are all doing ok and staying safe. What a year this has been... I wrote a post earlier this year about me wanting to move out of my parents' home, and dealing with the emotional guilt of it since my family is very conservative/religious on some matters and does not want me to move out before marriage. I thought I would do an update on the situation, reading the comments and messages here is always so helpful.

So in a spur of the moment kind of thing, I got an apartment to rent. I didn't talk about it with my parents beforehand, I just did it. It was such a good deal (rent was down at the time in my city because of COVID) and it was just too good to pass up, so I jumped on it and signed the lease. I rarely ever do something like that and even now, I'm surprised at myself. But....that was several months ago, and I still haven't moved out yet (but have been paying rent). I brought it up with my parents, and their response to it was every bit as horrible as I thought it would be. Lots of screaming, yelling, name-calling (I'm selfish, immoral, etc.) and it hurt me really really deeply. I expected this, of course, but I guess I still had some hope that they would see things from my perspective because I tried to really rationalize it, explain to them why this was such an important step for my life, my career, my education, etc. But all they could see was that I'm betraying them by doing this (mind you, I hadn't told them yet that I actually got the apartment - I wanted to wait until things got better).

So I dropped the subject for a few weeks and then brought it up a second time, I thought maybe it would be less of a shock this time around, and they might see things my way. But it was the same response, rinse and repeat. This time, I spiraled into a very deep depression because of all the emotional turmoil, and from the words I had to hear from them. And I basically just kind of froze. I regretted my decision about getting the apartment, and even considered cancelling my lease - wondering how I had the audacity to even think to do this. On top of that, I'm working full-time, taking courses, trying to start an online business - and I just couldn't focus on any of that anymore. Everything was suffering because of my mental health so I dropped the subject and didn't bring it up again at all.

I didn't end up cancelling the lease. And they still don't know that I have the apartment. I've been going there on weekends and some evenings to bring things over, and spend time there. It's very nice when I'm there, I instantly feel better - but I know this is not a solution. And the guilt and the fact that I'm living a lie (by not telling them) is eating away at me. Plus, I'm paying rent for an empty apartment (on top of the rent I'm paying at my parents' home, which is ridiculous I know). But I just can't bring myself to bring it up again. I'm paralyzed with fear, now knowing how they'll respond. And I know that says a lot about me as well, and the co-dependent relationship here. Things at home have been good since I didn't bring it up, in fact they're better than ever. They've been so kind and great over the past little while, and I wish they were like this in support of my decision. Sucks because it feels like the only way they can be happy is if I'm miserable. And vice versa. I'm stuck. I know what I need to do, I just can't seem to do it. I have the keys, the place is (almost) ready for me to move in, I could do it...and yet, that guilt consumes me. And then I get mad at myself for being so...weak. It's a vicious cycle.

I know that if I stay here much longer, my mental health will continue to suffer very very badly. Even though things are ok right now between my family and me, I am not living the life I want, or could. I'm about to start therapy to help me navigate all this, but I 'm here because it would be great to hear your thoughts on what I could do to stop getting in my own way and just....doing what makes me happy.

Thanks for listening, as always.

posted by KTN to Human Relations (17 answers total)

I feel so sad for your predicament. Family ties and religious constraints have a way of deterring us from our independence. I'm assuming your heritage is not primarily western American . I've known friends who had to hold off on their assertion of freedom even after adulthood because of their parents religious objections to it. You may not feel your religion as deeply as your parents due to being raised and educated next to Americans which have less strict rules for the passing into adulthood. However your parents want what's best for you as well as your future and see the actions you've been pining for as a step away from their traditions and values. You may have to really think hard about your next move. The path they want for you is to keep with the culture and religion you were born into, and if you choose to remain close to them it will mean knowing more about the lessons it brings.
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 1:51 AM on December 23, 2020

I know the answer is in moving out. I know this. But I have internalized the guilt and actually believe I would be horrible/scum of the earth to leave my parents in this age. But I know I can't keep doing this to myself either. And it's just a constant battle I'm waging with myself. I'm exhausted. I love my parents in spite of it all, and I do want to be there for them as much as I can, but I think living with them for much longer will kill me.

You know what you need to do. You knew that in your earlier question. Your parents will never ever see your perspective. But if you move out and set boundaries and learn how to refuse to accept what you called abuse in your earlier question, you can have a better life.

My parents are not immigrants; I do not pretend to have experienced or understand the cultural complexities and nuances of the situation. But I do understand emotional abuse, which my dad dished out my entire life until I said no.

I am so happy that you are starting therapy soon and will have someone in your corner who can help you navigate this. Another really important resource is Captain Awkward, who has written extensively about coping with difficult relatives. Your mental health is important. You are important.

I am a mother and grandmother and I am here to say, choose yourself no matter how painful that may be for your parents. You did not ask to be born, you do not owe them your life even if they believe that you do. Their feelings are not facts; please choose what is best for you and remember that there is a future ahead of you that will fill you with joy rather than anxiety, anger, and resentment. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:09 AM on December 23, 2020 [34 favorites]

Hey there. I clicked your username and saw “masala chai” so yup, my feelings were confirmed - we are from the same culture. I’m a desi woman about a decade older than you and I understand a lot of what you write. Some years ago I was in a very similar situation. Here are some things:
1. Recognize that you’re all victims of a sick system. The parent-child dynamic in desi culture is one of obligation, obedience, guilt, and conditional love. Are there some good things about it? Sure. But overall, a culture which strips independence from adult children is sick and broken. Your parents don’t know any better because this is how they were raised. But is this how you’d raise your children? No? Then it’s up to you to break the cycle. This terrifies your parents of course, and feels terribly unfair. After all, they sacrificed for their parents! It’s unfortunate that they won’t see the payoff in their own child. But, well, it’s an abusive system! Someone has to find the courage to break out of it. That someone is you.
2. Things never turn out as bad as we expect them to. Desi parents are especially dramatic. You’re going to give your mom a heart attack or your dad a stroke, the whole community will shun them or speak badly about them, etc etc. It rarely happens. Six years after my “scandal”, my parents are still thriving and we are once again close (just now with new boundaries!). Think about all the families you know in your community where the kids did “awful” things. Everyone’s doing fine, aren’t they?
3. Ask yourself in a truly objective way: what value are you getting from your relationship with your parents? Would you keep other people in your life who treat you this way?
4. Breaking out of an abusive system takes courage. You did an amazing thing by securing and prepping an apartment. Now just find 30 minutes of courage to pack your final bag and leave. Don’t tell them, don’t wait for their approval (you’ll never get it). Just leave and let the chips fall. Keep your distance for awhile. Most likely, they’ll adjust. If they don’t, they aren’t worth keeping a close relationship with.
5. You can still care for your aging parents without letting yourself be abused by them. There are many ways to do that; theirs is just one of them.
6. Big hugs. Believe in yourself. Memail me if you’d like to chat.
posted by orange and yellow at 2:27 AM on December 23, 2020 [133 favorites]

A million times what orange and yellow said.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:40 AM on December 23, 2020 [5 favorites]

I have no answers for you, but I came here to say I am so impressed you have the financial smarts to handle paying for two rents, in the middle of a pandemic! And you have a genuine good spirit, the first sentence of your post is wishing others well, even though you are struggling. You personally have great value, and strengths to lean on, no matter how the future unfolds with your relationship to your parents.
posted by sdrawkcaSSAb at 2:57 AM on December 23, 2020 [30 favorites]

It sounds like you've already decided what you need to do (just move in to the apartment you've rented) so it might help to 'trick' yourself into doing it. Would saying to yourself that you're going to stay there temporarily help? Or writing a note you could leave for your parents, or drafting a script for a voicemail message? Or commit with a friend that you will move on X date?

I agree with orange and yellow that most likely outcome is that they will get over it and that in the long run your relationship will be fine (maybe not perfect, but not many parent-child relationships are). You hold all more cards than you think here, if you're managing to pay two sets of rent and it's only guilt that is keeping you at home then they need you more than you need them.

2021 is hopefully going to be a better year than 2020. I hope very much you get to enjoy the peace of your new apartment, and that it's the start of putting your relationship with your parents on the footing that you want it to be.
posted by plonkee at 3:33 AM on December 23, 2020 [2 favorites]

Moving out is a scary step for all sorts of reasons, but it sounds like the stress of what happens when you bring up the idea is the most obvious barrier right now. So just do it, without bringing it up. Move out, inform them by phone or text that you have done so, and end contact with them for the day when they start going off on you. Try again another day. Hopefully, when you're in your own space and have some distance from the drama, it will become easier.
posted by metasarah at 4:40 AM on December 23, 2020 [7 favorites]

Is there anyone else in your community that you could reach out to for support? Even if it’s someone you don’t know very well. I bet if there’s an orange and yellow somewhere close to you in real life, someone who is a little older and successfully made the same move, she’d be only to happy to hear from you out of the blue and support you in confidence. Maybe meet you at your apartment when you are visiting it and chat, help you plan, reassure you?

Best of luck, your courage is admirable, and I’m sure it will get you where you want to be eventually.
posted by penguin pie at 4:51 AM on December 23, 2020 [4 favorites]

As another Desi woman, want to second orange and yellow. Desi family dynamics can be SO toxic and you are absolutely NOT a horrible person. Please feel free to MeMail if you want to chat.
posted by Tamanna at 5:19 AM on December 23, 2020 [22 favorites]

When others react poorly to you setting a boundary, it doesn’t mean it was wrong to set that boundary. We are generally wired to avoid conflict. You were raised to be compliant. Just because this is hard and uncomfortable doesn’t mean it’s not the right and best thing for you at this point in your life. I’m impressed you’ve taken these steps and I agree that the thing to do is just go. With your actions, you enforce the boundary. Here’s a couple tips for setting boundaries (link).
posted by amanda at 5:20 AM on December 23, 2020 [8 favorites]

It's very nice when I'm there, I instantly feel better - but I know this is not a solution.

No, this really is the solution. I don't share your cultural background but I have plenty of experience of controlling, overbearing parenting. The only thing that made those behaviours stop was setting a physical boundary by moving out of their home (and, in my case, moving several hundred miles away).

It is much harder to control, demean etc. someone who no longer lives with you. It's also much, much harder for them to communicate their disappointment 24/7 if you live somewhere else, even if that disappointment ramps up in the face of you moving out. Your parents may be disappointed if you do this, but they will survive their disappointment and so will you.

Lean into the place that makes you instantly feel better. Lean away from the people who scream, yell and call you names for the crime of wanting to build a meaningful life for yourself on your own terms. I know this is so much easier said than done but only you can honour the part of yourself that feels better in your own space. Your parents have already demonstrated that they're never going to prioritise protecting and promoting that for you over having ready access to controlling and abusing you, so you have to be brave enough to do it for yourself.

If it helps, think of the part of yourself that feels better in your own space as a child or a pet that you're solely responsible for. No one else is going to look after that kid or that pet unless you do it, no one else has the same motivation to care for it that you do, so it's up to you to take steps to give that kid/pet the happier life it deserves.

(I used a similar analogy to break years of disordered eating by reframing my body as a dog that I absolutely had to feed regularly, whether I liked the dog or not; it was easier than getting to grips with the idea that I had to take care of myself, a person I definitely did not like at that time largely because of the stories my parents had told me about myself that I'd previously assumed must have been true or else why would they say things like that about me etc.; ymmv.)
posted by terretu at 6:21 AM on December 23, 2020 [18 favorites]

Guilt consumes you because your were trained to have guilt consume you, by operant conditioning. You were literally trained your whole life to subsume your own happiness to the wishes of your parents, and conditioning is really effective especially when started at a young age! So by moving out, you are not just breaking the cycle desi cultural systems designed to oppress you, you are also breaking operant conditioning which is genuinely hard to do. It's not just emotions and feelings, it's actual physical-psychological conditioning that causes you to get clammy hands, heart palpitations, etc. when you are trying to break free.

So what I'm saying is, I'm definitely glad you're starting therapy about this! But also, you shouldn't let those feelings of intense guilt, fear, etc. stop you from moving out. You literally can't help those feelings, they have been trained into you and will take a long time to separate from your behaviors. If you wait for those things to go away you will be waiting a long time. I promise you, when you are not being actively exposed to Skinner-style reinforcement of "desired" behaviors by your parents, the responses will be dulled and start to dissipate. Exposure matters. Cutting off exposure to conditioning will lessen it's effects over time.
posted by juniperesque at 7:53 AM on December 23, 2020 [3 favorites]

There are stories like this on r/AsianParentStories fairly regularly, here's one recent one.

As I was reading your post, I kept thinking, "please tell me you didn't cancel the lease!" I'm so relieved that you didn't! Please continue to keep the lease!

I think to shore yourself up mentally: realize that they are going to be super angry with you, call you all the names in the book, but that doesn't mean you're doing a wrong and bad thing. The way they're reacting says everything about them. Your parents aren't thinking about what's good for you and your well-being, what's important to them is controlling you (do they depend on you financially from you paying them rent?), perpetuating unhealthy parent-child dynamics and what the community thinks of them. So please don't feel guilty for doing a thing that is good for you. Ultimately you can't have it both ways - making yourself happy and healthy AND making them happy. Your parents being happy comes at the expense of you (so you're setting yourself on fire to keep them warm), and that's not YOUR fault, it's theirs, but of course they will blame it on you. Ex-Muslim or not, I hope this video I just found helps you.

What your parents say do not define you. In terms of telling them, in the context of someone marrying their same sex partner, Captain Awkward has suggested telling religious/conservative/disapproving parents as it were good news - tell them after it's happened and tell them as a simple update, and not something that you're ashamed about and something that they should be disappointed with you about. So maybe after you've done your final move, go to their house, tell them, "hey good news! I have my own apartment now. It's in [neighbourhood]. Would love to have you visit sometime. Anyway, I have to get going now" and exit stage left into a waiting Uber or something. Turn off your phone. Yes, they will be upset and hurl abuse, but that's on them. Please post an update if you feel like it - whether you moved or not. We're here for you!
posted by foxjacket at 8:32 AM on December 23, 2020 [7 favorites]

Right now your reptile brain has convinced you that you are a small child who is under your parents' control, that your parents' anger is a deadly threat you need to fear. But you are not a child. You have nothing to fear in your parents' anger. You actually have 100% of the power in your relationship with your parents because your parents need you far more than you need them. Reality is the exact opposite of what you currently feel it is. They are terrified of your power, and they are covering up their terror of your adult power by acting like you are still a small child.

It's up to you to break through their delusion, wake up to your adulthood, own your power, and use your agency to act.

Surprise yourself once again. Move out suddenly, without planning or forethought or preparation. You can then deal with the fallout from the safety and comfort of your new home. You can do this, you can survive this, you have literally nothing to lose.
posted by MiraK at 8:55 AM on December 23, 2020 [9 favorites]

Moving out doesn't have to be permanent. You can try it for a few months and decide whether you (and even your parents) are happier, healthier, etc. You can decide then whether to move back. But you deserve to try and see what it's like. I think you know it will be good for you and ultimately even good for them to have a happy, healthy child. But if you're wrong, that's ok...it's not a permanent decision, it's just something you need to explore for yourself.
posted by Ausamor at 12:10 PM on December 23, 2020

I hope the commenters who are trashing desi parenting as toxic, sick, and broken also recognize that there are aspects of modern western parenting that are toxic, sick, and broken. As a new parent myself, I'm regularly shocked at some of the things my American parent friends do, which seem like borderline abuse to me, but are standard parenting rituals done with love from their POV. Parents fuck you up no matter what the culture, as the saying goes. Or, you know, maybe this is about culture clashes rather than a billion people on the planet all being horrible parents?

Anyway, my advice to OP: just move out. Parents are more dramatic before the event happens than after. They're not going to physically force you home. It will probably take some time for them to come to terms with it, but they will. I haven't been in your situation, but I have friends who were (not desi, but Asian, with what were similar family dynamics), and tearing off the bandaid worked best for them. Your parents may continue to grumble at you, but they'll probably be fine as they get used to the new situation. The fact that you did sign and keep the lease means that you deep down know that they'll be ok too.
posted by redlines at 1:56 PM on December 23, 2020 [1 favorite]

Mom and Dad, I love you, and I know you want want what's best for me but you are not in my shoes. It really pains me to think that a decision that I truly feel is best for me is hurting you, but I am not a child anymore. I am an adult and I get to make my own decisions. I am moving out. I know things were different for you and this isn't a decision you would have made for yourselves but people are different and need different things. Please understand that this is not a rejection of all the amazing things I've learned from your or a rejection of your love, but this is happening. I know you don't like it but it is important to me to have my family in my life and I hope after some time you will come to accept it.

Have your stuff ready or gone. Maybe have a friend to walk you out of the maelstrom.
If this is going to prove to hard to say when being interrupted, screamed at etc., leave a note.
posted by mossy_george at 8:39 PM on December 26, 2020