My aged father is not following Covid precautions

December 6, 2020 5:11 AM

My father lives in a different state, one with a very high COVID count. He is not an anti-masker nor did he vote for the orange guy. He understand the risks of COVID but simply does not apply the proper safeguards to himself.

For instance, he goes out to restaurants at least once a week, sits inside and eats and thinks its OK because he's sitting away from other people. But he wears gloves and washes his hands a lot. Afterwards, he and his wife go shopping.

Iv'e tried sending articles explaining the danger of aerosals but he can't somehow understand that this applies to him as well. He just says, "yeah, it's dangerous out there." He's a smarty guy otherwise so its not like him to be unable tosynthasize information.

Recently, he asked my sister to go with him to an open house.

I don't understand his behavior and he doesn't seem to listen or want to. I know he's an adult and ultimately do as he pleases but is there anything else I can try?

posted by captainscared to Human Relations (18 answers total)

I know he's an adult and ultimately do as he pleases but is there anything else I can try?

No, there isn’t. You draw your boundaries and limit your exposure, be it via him or others, and that’s all you can do.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:39 AM on December 6, 2020 [26 favorites]

I am dealing with this on a somewhat smaller scale with elderly parents. I have offered resources and personal help. Sometimes it’s accepted, sometimes not. They are adults and I can’t MAKE THEM do or not do anything. And I don’t play the guilt card because, personally, when someone tries to guilt me into doing something it just makes me dig my heels in harder.

So—I’ve had to work on myself and remind myself that I can only provide options and information and offers of help, and that’s all.

It sucks. I’m really sorry you’re going through this.
posted by bookmammal at 6:02 AM on December 6, 2020 [5 favorites]

Well, he can get covid. That'll adjust his attitude.

An older co-worker of mine who I'm friendly with had this same attitude. Wasn't a virus/science denier, just didn't think the advice was for him. Then he got sick and spread it to his wife.

Thankfully they both had very mild cases, but they were still down and miserable for a week and it absolutely shook him up. Now he's one of the biggest advocates for distancing behaviors we have in that colleague group.

Kind of the nuclear option but some people just have to learn by doing.
posted by phunniemee at 6:09 AM on December 6, 2020 [9 favorites]

I feel like a broken record but... all I’ve been able to do with grown adults is speak my truth, and then let it go:

“Dad, I don’t understand your behaviour and it scares me. It scares me because I love you and I don’t want to risk losing you to Covid in the several months to a year before a vaccine becomes available. When I think of you risking your long-term health by eating in a restaurant when you could get takeout, it bothers me, a lot. You raised me as a caring person so I have to tell you that I really wish you would stop.”
posted by warriorqueen at 6:10 AM on December 6, 2020 [28 favorites]

I have to say: in my part of the U.S., the northeast, so far I think I've only seen one person besides myself wearing gloves in public since the pandemic started (though a fair number of people in masks, and it just snowed for the last time last night so I'd imagine I'll see more with gloves next time I go out.)

So unless it's much more common where you are, I think you're actually already ahead of the game if your father is wearing gloves when he goes out. I can understand your apprehension, and I wouldn't stop urging him to do more, but the situation might already be at its optimum possible from your perspective.

Unless he's genuinely showing signs of cognitive impairment (its not like him to be unable tosynthasize information) maybe eating at a restaurant in public in a mask and gloves once a week is his equivalent of frequent wild swingin' orgies: worth it, even with the risks entailed by possible accidental exchange of bodily fluids.

You're the one in this discussion with in-person experience with the degree of risk he's taking, of course, but I'd observe that even Dr. Fauci doesn't make absolute dictates about what everyone should do in every situation, but rather talks about how, at a certain point, everyone needs to evaluate the level of acceptable risk for themselves.
posted by XMLicious at 6:34 AM on December 6, 2020 [4 favorites]

I've been dealing with something similar with my father, with the added complications that my father is recently widowed and that I am staying in his house for November and December so he doesn't have to do the holidays alone. Both these things matter: it matters that my father is emotionally fragile right now, and it matters that I see everything he does and have to walk a line between nagging/infantalizing him and being complicit in his selfish and self-destructive behavior. So here's what I've decided: COVID is a risk to older people like my father. Loneliness and social isolation are also risks to older people. My father is a grown man, and he gets to decide how he weighs those risks. I am trying to influence his behavior, mostly by moving in and taking over a lot of the functions that he was relying on his friends for. I am also doing some nagging, although I'm trying to minimize it, and I have advocated more forcefully a couple of times when I thought he was being especially reckless. (Specifically, the week before last he and I were both briefly exposed to someone who later tested positive, and I am going to the mat for us doing a two-week quarantine and a COVID test. That is a hill I will die on. He is sure that we're fine, but he's humoring me.) And that's all I can do. I have to make my peace with the fact that I can't control other adults.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:42 AM on December 6, 2020 [6 favorites]

I don't understand his behavior and he doesn't seem to listen or want to.

Do you in fact want to understand his behaviour? If so, to pursue that goal, the person who needs to listen is not him, it's you.

You can say "Dad, I'm confused. I think you understand the risks of Covid, but it looks to me like you do a lot of things that seem very risky. Can you help me understand how you're making those decisions?" Then listen. Then ask more questions (actual questions intended to understand, not rhetorical questions intended to persuade or criticize).

I agree with others that trying to change his behavior is a goal you may need to let go of. You may find it helps you feel better if you find other goals. I suspect that having a conversation where you get a better understanding of his motivations, it may help. As might, as others have pointed out, letting him know your point of view and then letting go.
posted by ManInSuit at 6:47 AM on December 6, 2020 [9 favorites]

I will also say: I agree with something suggested by others: The calculations for older people may be different than for younger people in ways we don't understand. Maybe the odds are that if your dad behaves this way, there's, say, a one in ten change that he will get very sick and maybe die.

To a young person, that sounds terrifying.

But if you are an old person, depending on your age and health, you may already live with odds of getting sick and dying that are comparable to that or even higher. In terms of your own risks (separate from your social responsibility to avoid spreading the disease), I can really see an old person thinking something like "The odds are pretty good I'm going to die in the next few years anyhow, or get too sick to enjoy my life. Do I really want to spend 18 months of that time being lonely and sad and avoiding all the things I want to do, just to marginally increase my uncertain chances of living a a little bit longer?"

I'm not sure I'd agree with that calculation, but it does not seem wildly irrational to me.
posted by ManInSuit at 6:53 AM on December 6, 2020 [34 favorites]

Loneliness and social isolation pose real, serious health risks, especially to older people. I'm not justifying irresponsible behavior, especially since this is a collective and not just individual risk, but older people have real reasons to value social connections and see them as vital to their health.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:57 AM on December 6, 2020 [7 favorites]

Ask him how he would handle it if he caught COVID, spread it to his wife, and he recovered and she died.
posted by heatherlogan at 7:28 AM on December 6, 2020 [3 favorites]

Your father's behaviors are completely in line with stated CDC guidelines for dining at a restaurant - "[m]aintain a social distance of 6 feet or more", "[w]ash your hands", and wearing gloves "limit[s] the use of shared serving utensils". You don't need to think those guidelines are sufficient (I don't, and I'm not particularly at risk of COVID). However, you should not go to him and say he's not applying "proper safeguards" - he is compliant with all government recommendations, and further, he's doing more than a very large part of the US population.

I would approach this by understanding his reasoning rather than berating him. People take educated risks all the time. For a typical person in the USA, their biggest risks for dying are heart disease, cancer, and car crashes. Those three causes cover the majority of deaths in the USA. If you would not criticize your dad for driving or for eating red meat, you should ask yourself why you're so concerned about COVID in particular.
posted by saeculorum at 7:57 AM on December 6, 2020 [13 favorites]

You could try risk/reward arguments. Like, maybe trade that dining/shopping trip for a picnic or a takeout meal? Is it really that important to pick out your own tomatoes? People tend to run on autopilot especially as they get older, and you have to find ways to make things seem normal while reducing risk.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:07 AM on December 6, 2020

I always use the cigarette smoke example, comparing aerosols to the smell of smoke or perfume.

Generally people have an "ah ha" moment when it's described to them like that.

Maybe some thing like THIS could help too?
posted by Max Power at 9:56 AM on December 6, 2020 [1 favorite]

Nothing you mentioned sounds super risky. Going to parties or gathering with friends in their houses would be high risk. Eating in a restaurant while not sitting close to other people or going shopping while wearing a mask are fairly low risk activities. Going to an open house is probably not a lot worse than going shopping. Obviously he could reduce his risk more by cutting out those activities, but if he thinks his current risk is low enough, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's unable to synthesize information.

If he's in his 80's or 90's there's an argument for being more cautious, since the consequences of getting COVID are more likely to be severe. But there's also an argument for being less cautious, if he feels like it's more important to enjoy the time he has left than to prolong his life as much as possible.

You could try to figure out how well he really understands the risk. You could ask him how likely he thinks it is that someone with COVID would be at the open house and use the COVID-19 Event Risk Assessment Planning Tool to see whether his estimate of the odds is too low. You could ask him how likely he thinks it is that he would die or have long-term health effects if he got COVID and compare that to stats for his age group. But if it turns out that he understands the risks as well as you do and is simply choosing not to go as far in minimizing risk as you want him to, there isn't much you can or should do about that.
posted by Redstart at 10:08 AM on December 6, 2020 [5 favorites]

We each have our own risk tolerance. I believe COVID is real and I believe it's dangerous. I spend almost my entire life cooped up here in my house. (To be fair, that was mostly normal before the pandemic. I work from home.) I wear a mask in public. I wash my hands. I'm careful.

That said, my girlfriend and I have no problem eating in restaurants. Sure, we'd prefer to eat outside if possible, but we have no qualms sitting inside either. That's a risk we're willing to take. It sounds as if your father is willing to take that risk too.

You cannot impose your beliefs and standards on your father. All you can do is state how you feel. If he's a smart, thoughtful guy (and it sounds like he is), then you've got to accept that he's weighed the information and made the decision that he's fine taking the risks that he's taking.
posted by jdroth at 10:40 AM on December 6, 2020 [3 favorites]

You could send him that recent study from a restaurant in South Korea where someone got it from someone sitting 21' feet away, or that NYT article where it asked epidemiologists what activities they do -- there was a breakout chart, and one of the top three activities that they don't do is eat in restaurants. (Sorry no time to grab the links for you; will try later.)
posted by slidell at 1:43 PM on December 6, 2020 [2 favorites]

My grandfather of 95 years has lately been going out to a coffee shop (masked) with a friend once a week, and has also had my cousin visit him in his home several times. He has invited me over and fully expects me to visit.

I don't argue with him on any of these points. He's 95 years old and fought in WWII. He's witnessed decades of life in the twentieth century and lived through grave public crises before. Now that his wife is deceased, he lives alone in their condo. Who am I to tell him what it is to live safely when he's lived through far more dangerous things? Also who am I to tell a very old man that he must stay at home isolated for months on end? If anything I feel that respecting his ability to make his own decisions about what risks he's willing to take is the only kind thing I can do here. Also I believe it's cruel to tell elderly people who live alone and want to be social that they shouldn't be taking that risk. Loneliness and isolation are just as serious health threats as covid, and if they choose to take some risks to alleviate those, I think that's a decision they have the right to make.
posted by winterportage at 5:35 PM on December 6, 2020 [4 favorites]

Seconding Max Power on the cigarette smoke analogy.
You can also send him some decent n95s if he is ok with wearing a mask. It won’t help when he takes it off to eat indoors, but might be useful if he does indoor shopping.

(If you are not sure where to get n95s / kf94s / legit kn95s, memail me. There are a number of ways you can purchase them affordably without impinging on healthcare worker supply.)
posted by aielen at 8:57 PM on December 6, 2020