Stay the f to sleep: 5 year old waking at 5am edition
October 8, 2020 7:19 AM Subscribe
Our five year old keeps waking up at 5am. He spends the morning (or all day) incredibly grouchy, tired, and miserable. It's affecting everyone in the house and he's really unhappy.
We are running out of ideas for what to try next. Any suggestions?
Where we are at:
Until about 6 months ago, his routine was: wake up around 6ish am, have an afternoon nap or 'quiet time' in bed after lunch, bedtime at 7pm, fall asleep anywhere between 8pm and 10pm but sometimes even later, with lots of aggravation and arguing going on in the meantime.
We eliminated the afternoon nap 6 months ago. Then we shifted his bedtime back an hour to 8pm, which almost guarantees he falls asleep right away after being put in bed.
Unfortunately, he wakes up at 5am most days now. Which means he is very, very tired, and either spends all day feeling crappy and/or he falls asleep at random times and places (in the car, on the sofa while watching cartoons, head down on the kitchen table half way through his online schooling...). It's making us all miserable.
Things we have tried:
- Consistency and clear expectations about bedtime.
- Moving his bedtime back an hour. Helped with falling asleep at night but didn't change the wake up time.
- Making sure he eats plenty at dinner time, and leaving him a snack by his bed for the morning.
- tinkering with the temperature of his room and bed.
- blackout curtains (even though it doesn't get light here till 7am).
- white noise.
- bribing him with sticker charts, toys, etc.
- About two months ago we changed time zone. Within a week he was right back into the routine of 5am wake ups.
- Plenty of outdoor time and exercise, especially in the late afternoon.
When he wakes up early, he is exhausted. Our sense is that he knows that he needs sleep, and he's motivated to try and sleep more (e.g., he's really into the bribery). So I get the feeling he is not doing anything willful. But he just wakes naturally at 5am and finds it impossible to get back to sleep. In case it's relevant, one of his parents has very sever sleep apnea.
He's always needed lots of sleep and when he wakes up early or goes to bed too late he is obviously physically and emotionally exhausted. This is why I'm not sure he just needs less sleep than we are letting him have... it's just he can't stay asleep in the mornings.
Any ideas? Is there some trick we haven't tried we should experiment with? Is this something we should bring up with his doctor (can kids have sleep disorders??).
Where we are at:
Until about 6 months ago, his routine was: wake up around 6ish am, have an afternoon nap or 'quiet time' in bed after lunch, bedtime at 7pm, fall asleep anywhere between 8pm and 10pm but sometimes even later, with lots of aggravation and arguing going on in the meantime.
We eliminated the afternoon nap 6 months ago. Then we shifted his bedtime back an hour to 8pm, which almost guarantees he falls asleep right away after being put in bed.
Unfortunately, he wakes up at 5am most days now. Which means he is very, very tired, and either spends all day feeling crappy and/or he falls asleep at random times and places (in the car, on the sofa while watching cartoons, head down on the kitchen table half way through his online schooling...). It's making us all miserable.
Things we have tried:
- Consistency and clear expectations about bedtime.
- Moving his bedtime back an hour. Helped with falling asleep at night but didn't change the wake up time.
- Making sure he eats plenty at dinner time, and leaving him a snack by his bed for the morning.
- tinkering with the temperature of his room and bed.
- blackout curtains (even though it doesn't get light here till 7am).
- white noise.
- bribing him with sticker charts, toys, etc.
- About two months ago we changed time zone. Within a week he was right back into the routine of 5am wake ups.
- Plenty of outdoor time and exercise, especially in the late afternoon.
When he wakes up early, he is exhausted. Our sense is that he knows that he needs sleep, and he's motivated to try and sleep more (e.g., he's really into the bribery). So I get the feeling he is not doing anything willful. But he just wakes naturally at 5am and finds it impossible to get back to sleep. In case it's relevant, one of his parents has very sever sleep apnea.
He's always needed lots of sleep and when he wakes up early or goes to bed too late he is obviously physically and emotionally exhausted. This is why I'm not sure he just needs less sleep than we are letting him have... it's just he can't stay asleep in the mornings.
Any ideas? Is there some trick we haven't tried we should experiment with? Is this something we should bring up with his doctor (can kids have sleep disorders??).
We found that an earlier bedtime actually meant they also slept later. That is, have him go to bed at 7.
posted by lab.beetle at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by lab.beetle at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I would definitely talk to your kid's doctor. My kid didn't consistently wake early but seemed exhausted, mentioned being tired often, and reported struggling to pay attention in kindergarten because she was so tired. That was enough to have a sleep study done and they determined she has restless legs - her leg discomfort was preventing her from getting enough deep sleep. They prescribed an iron supplement and it has really seemed to help, though that was right before the shut-down so she's had less demands on her attention for the last six months. A sleep study might be able to help pinpoint what exactly might be going on, especially with a parent with sleep apnea.
posted by SeedStitch at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by SeedStitch at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
sorry - see now you already did white noise and blackout curtains.
I'd consider his mattress. As kids get older their requirements can change. Try a foam pad topper or a new softer mattress - my kid turned out to need this. And agree that an earlier bedtime just might help, esp since you say he needs a lot of sleep. And yes, ask the doctor. Pediatricians cover a lot of ground that isn't just sickness.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'd consider his mattress. As kids get older their requirements can change. Try a foam pad topper or a new softer mattress - my kid turned out to need this. And agree that an earlier bedtime just might help, esp since you say he needs a lot of sleep. And yes, ask the doctor. Pediatricians cover a lot of ground that isn't just sickness.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think its hard to control waking up. You can incentivize not getting out of bed and disturbing you, but that won't help him get more sleep.
How about adding back the nap?
posted by bruinfan at 7:43 AM on October 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
How about adding back the nap?
posted by bruinfan at 7:43 AM on October 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Does he have a clock and know his numbers enough to see it's not time to get up? Maybe you can set an alarm on a clock in his room and teach him to stay in bed reading or playing until it goes off. Does he have a bedside light he can turn on and off to read in bed? Make sure the bulb is not very bright. Some music that he can turn on himself? Soft soothing music?
posted by mareli at 7:44 AM on October 8, 2020
posted by mareli at 7:44 AM on October 8, 2020
Response by poster: To clarify: we only changed from a 7pm bedtime to an 8pm bedtime 2 weeks ago. Up until then he was going to bed at 7pm, not falling asleep until 8 or 9pm (or later), but still waking up at 5am. Pushing the bedtime back an hour did solve the problem of not falling asleep, but didn't make any difference to the early wake up time. Similarly, afternoon naps make it harder for him to fall asleep, but also don't make a difference on the wake up time. So it seems like its the waking up very early that's the problem factor.
posted by EllaEm at 8:00 AM on October 8, 2020
posted by EllaEm at 8:00 AM on October 8, 2020
Are you still in bed at 5 am? And if so, would you be willing to let him come get into bed with you? I realize there are a lot of reasons you might not want to do this, but it's possible that snuggling with a warm, sleeping parent would put him back to sleep.
posted by Redstart at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
We have a grow clock and just made it really clear that until the sun came on the clock that it wasn’t time to get out of bed. There are little stars around the side and they disappear through the night, so if there is more than one star left then they should try to go back to sleep. Every night I tell my kids not to wake me up unless they need a blanket or some medicine. If they come downstairs while I am making coffee I send them back upstairs until the clock says it’s morning (if they are obviously ready to get up then I tinker with the clock so that they have to lay in bed only a few more minutes until the sun comes on) I have to admit, I had to be really tough about this and am probably a little more unfriendly about early or mid night wake ups. But there’s nothing wrong with having to say dream in bed for a while until the house wakes up.
posted by pairofshades at 8:07 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by pairofshades at 8:07 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Ps- a wake up at 5am is very normal... even we do it... but it doesn’t mean you need to get up. Five years old is old enough to have that conversation (I think, based on my own experience with my 4 and 5 year olds- obviously that’s not exhaustive!) we’ve talked a lot about how me and their dad also need sleep, and we can’t have fun if we’re tired. But I highly recommend the grow clock.
posted by pairofshades at 8:10 AM on October 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by pairofshades at 8:10 AM on October 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Seems to me it's doctor time if he's that tired and miserable. You could always try melatonin, assuming his doctor okays it. It's a hell of a drug. A sleep deprived, grouchy five-year-old is a terrifying creature so you have my sympathies.
posted by Amy93 at 8:16 AM on October 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Amy93 at 8:16 AM on October 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Have you tried melatonin? This is just a shot in the dark--I started giving it to my five year old and it solved her going-to-sleep problems, but I wonder if it messes with body chemistry just enough that your kid would sleep longer on it. You can find kid melatonin at the grocery store.
I had the same problem with my oldest and, honestly, he's just a terrible sleeper and it's still a thing. He doesn't wake up early now, but he still just doesn't sleep enough and it's easy to see it in his behavior. If I could go back in time to when he was five, I am not sure what I'd do except solidify his bedtime routine, get him taking melatonin, and maybe add a nightly bath to the ritual.
posted by hought20 at 8:18 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I had the same problem with my oldest and, honestly, he's just a terrible sleeper and it's still a thing. He doesn't wake up early now, but he still just doesn't sleep enough and it's easy to see it in his behavior. If I could go back in time to when he was five, I am not sure what I'd do except solidify his bedtime routine, get him taking melatonin, and maybe add a nightly bath to the ritual.
posted by hought20 at 8:18 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I, too, would suggest trying out melatonin since it seems like he's having trouble falling asleep and the overall lack of sleep seems to be a problem. Hopefully falling asleep peacefully a little earlier will help him be fresh when he's up at 5am (some kids are just naturally early risers, unfortunately).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:22 AM on October 8, 2020
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:22 AM on October 8, 2020
Your little probably needs 10 to 11 hours of sleep at night. His behavior seems like my little's when he is overtired.
I'd start the wind down early, by 6:30. No screens, no matter what after this, quiet bath and then reading with the goal of in bed by seven. Five may be his natural wakeup time and he's just super overtired because he needs to be starting bedtime at 6:30. Removing opportunities to find a screen, joke with additional grown ups, and consistent super early bedtime really help us. When my son was four, bedtime would sometimes start at 5:30, because he was obviously going to be overtired by 6:30.
posted by Kalmya at 8:23 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'd start the wind down early, by 6:30. No screens, no matter what after this, quiet bath and then reading with the goal of in bed by seven. Five may be his natural wakeup time and he's just super overtired because he needs to be starting bedtime at 6:30. Removing opportunities to find a screen, joke with additional grown ups, and consistent super early bedtime really help us. When my son was four, bedtime would sometimes start at 5:30, because he was obviously going to be overtired by 6:30.
posted by Kalmya at 8:23 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Change the location where he sleeps when he wakes up. When he wakes up at five am, have him get up to pee, then transfer to the couch where the light stay dim and he gets to listen to very quiet music, look at his books and continue to rest, if not sleep.
It may help if a sleeping parent joins him on the couch, but should be optional. An alternative would be to peek in at you sleeping before he clambers onto the couch. He's at the development age where he may start to be afraid of monsters and need to make sure he knows where the adults are and that he is safe. If there is a family dog or cat or another child having them sleep in his bedroom with him or join him on the couch to blear and doze could be very helpful in getting him sleepy, not just tired. You could also consider letting him slip into the adult bedroom and do something silent there without waking you, such as reading, colouring or drawing. Since you don't want him in the bed make a nest in the corner of your bedroom with a coffee table or a lap desk for him to work on while sitting or lying in a small heap of blankets.
If he can get into a shallow state of sleep, one where he is barely dozing and is still conscious it will still be good for his brain and reset his internal temperature. He shouldn't try for sleep but just for a cozy cuddle time.
Up his physical activity. Over the next months he will probably grow much taller and most of that growth will be the legs. He is likely at the transition age where his body is designed to keep up with walking adults or older kids who won't or can't pick him up and carry him anymore. He may be having an extra burst of energy that is designed for the survival of kids who now need to use their own resources to keep up. Try a daily two mile walk to see if that helps and if he can handle two miles see if he can cope with up to five.
Structure his awake alone time for his private study or devotional time. If your kid is going to be wide awake at five AM it is an excellent time for him to drill whatever skill he might want to be really good at in future - this is a good time for academics, or art, or practicing music, or doing his daily morning pages. When he is older it could be the daily time he spends on the rink practicing his shots, or doing endurance training for some sport. If he is going to be awake use the time optimally rather than let him mope and be crabby and at a loose end you have to be to be supervising him also moping, crabby and desperate for more sleep.
Check that he is not struggling with anxiety. If there are difficult transitions going on he may need extra security, so more quality time and few performance demands. Anxiety also calls for increased activity.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
It may help if a sleeping parent joins him on the couch, but should be optional. An alternative would be to peek in at you sleeping before he clambers onto the couch. He's at the development age where he may start to be afraid of monsters and need to make sure he knows where the adults are and that he is safe. If there is a family dog or cat or another child having them sleep in his bedroom with him or join him on the couch to blear and doze could be very helpful in getting him sleepy, not just tired. You could also consider letting him slip into the adult bedroom and do something silent there without waking you, such as reading, colouring or drawing. Since you don't want him in the bed make a nest in the corner of your bedroom with a coffee table or a lap desk for him to work on while sitting or lying in a small heap of blankets.
If he can get into a shallow state of sleep, one where he is barely dozing and is still conscious it will still be good for his brain and reset his internal temperature. He shouldn't try for sleep but just for a cozy cuddle time.
Up his physical activity. Over the next months he will probably grow much taller and most of that growth will be the legs. He is likely at the transition age where his body is designed to keep up with walking adults or older kids who won't or can't pick him up and carry him anymore. He may be having an extra burst of energy that is designed for the survival of kids who now need to use their own resources to keep up. Try a daily two mile walk to see if that helps and if he can handle two miles see if he can cope with up to five.
Structure his awake alone time for his private study or devotional time. If your kid is going to be wide awake at five AM it is an excellent time for him to drill whatever skill he might want to be really good at in future - this is a good time for academics, or art, or practicing music, or doing his daily morning pages. When he is older it could be the daily time he spends on the rink practicing his shots, or doing endurance training for some sport. If he is going to be awake use the time optimally rather than let him mope and be crabby and at a loose end you have to be to be supervising him also moping, crabby and desperate for more sleep.
Check that he is not struggling with anxiety. If there are difficult transitions going on he may need extra security, so more quality time and few performance demands. Anxiety also calls for increased activity.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Does he wake up needing to urinate? When my son was about that age, we were having the same problem and it was because he really needed to pee. We started getting him out of bed when we went to bed, usually around 11 or midnight, just to take him to the bathroom. He'd never fully wake up but he'd wake up enough to go to the toilet and then straight back to sleep. Worked like a charm.
posted by cooker girl at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Honestly, I’ve had this problem on and off. This might be a totally different kid thing (I am very much not a kid) but I think I finally figured out my issue.
I was going through a lot of life changes, things were weird at work and at home, and I was SO tired at night that I would fall asleep around 11 pm. But once my anxiety brain “overpowered” my sleep-deprived brain, it’s like the balance would shift so to speak, anxiety brain would win, and I would wake up around 4:30 or 5 am completely wired and exhausted and unable to sleep. This went on for months. I kind of fixed it by picturing consistent calm meditative scenarios while falling asleep.
Again, this probably isn’t his issue...? But kids get anxiety a lot too, especially now. Is there anything in his life that could be making him anxious? Even very small family drama and other minor issues can get to very small people. When I was a kid, if there was something going on in my house (even just making breakfast or a minor disagreement between my parents) I would drag myself out of bed totally exhausted to be included in it and make sure everything was ok.
Anyway. If you want and he wants, maybe talk him through a peaceful scenario in a quiet voice as he’s falling asleep (starlit forest with sleeping stuffed animals, etc.) ? Good luck. This is hard. :/
posted by leafmealone at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
I was going through a lot of life changes, things were weird at work and at home, and I was SO tired at night that I would fall asleep around 11 pm. But once my anxiety brain “overpowered” my sleep-deprived brain, it’s like the balance would shift so to speak, anxiety brain would win, and I would wake up around 4:30 or 5 am completely wired and exhausted and unable to sleep. This went on for months. I kind of fixed it by picturing consistent calm meditative scenarios while falling asleep.
Again, this probably isn’t his issue...? But kids get anxiety a lot too, especially now. Is there anything in his life that could be making him anxious? Even very small family drama and other minor issues can get to very small people. When I was a kid, if there was something going on in my house (even just making breakfast or a minor disagreement between my parents) I would drag myself out of bed totally exhausted to be included in it and make sure everything was ok.
Anyway. If you want and he wants, maybe talk him through a peaceful scenario in a quiet voice as he’s falling asleep (starlit forest with sleeping stuffed animals, etc.) ? Good luck. This is hard. :/
posted by leafmealone at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
4 or 5 a.m. tends to be when my house cools off enough that I require another blanket and I wake up to pull one over me, especially as the weather changes. Another blanket on the foot of the bed can’t hurt. Or depending on the temperature and how tech-y you want to be, maybe an electric blanket on a timer? Conversely, some kids wake up hot and need to shed some layers.
posted by corey flood at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2020
posted by corey flood at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2020
Do you take him for a midnight pee before you go to bed? The urge to pee could be waking him up too much to go back to sleep. If you gently wake him before you got to bed & steer him half asleep to the loo & tuck him back in that might help him sleep in longer.
When does the furnace kick on? My husband used to do something similar when the furnace would kick on in the morning & make our bedroom too warm as time to get up. Is the room getting too hot or too cold by that time?
posted by wwax at 9:02 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
When does the furnace kick on? My husband used to do something similar when the furnace would kick on in the morning & make our bedroom too warm as time to get up. Is the room getting too hot or too cold by that time?
posted by wwax at 9:02 AM on October 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
Sleep begats sleep.
If there is a lot of pressure on him to go back to sleep, remove that pressure. Just tell him that if he wakes up at 5:00am that is ok, but he has to stay in bed until 7:00am or whatever time you deem appropriate. He can read or play quietly in bed, not around his room, until it is time to get ready for the day. He will likely fall back to sleep on his own while waiting for the time.
posted by AugustWest at 9:33 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
If there is a lot of pressure on him to go back to sleep, remove that pressure. Just tell him that if he wakes up at 5:00am that is ok, but he has to stay in bed until 7:00am or whatever time you deem appropriate. He can read or play quietly in bed, not around his room, until it is time to get ready for the day. He will likely fall back to sleep on his own while waiting for the time.
posted by AugustWest at 9:33 AM on October 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I have had a very tricky sleeper despite very good sleep disciple and doing zillions of things to try to improve it- so I feel you. What does he do first thing? I know when my kid was allowed to get up and watch you tube or play on his tablet he got out of bed VERY early. Only books allowed in the morning changed that surprisingly fast.
posted by beccaj at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by beccaj at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
Consider moving his bedtime back another hour -- you got some improvement with the shift from 7 to 8 p.m., and you said he was sometimes staying up until 10. I know even less sleep seems totally counterintuitive when he's already so tired, but it might work. Also, yeah, no screens at all in the bedroom is as important for kids' sleep as grownups.
posted by shadygrove at 8:16 PM on October 8, 2020
posted by shadygrove at 8:16 PM on October 8, 2020
N-thing mattress check. My kid slept in her toddler bed until she was 6. We got her a big bed with a regular mattress and she magically went from waking between 5:30 and 6am to sleeping until 7 or 7:30am.
Couldn’t hurt to make a doctor appointment, too, but it could very well be something in his physical environment rather than something internal.
posted by Kriesa at 5:51 AM on October 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Couldn’t hurt to make a doctor appointment, too, but it could very well be something in his physical environment rather than something internal.
posted by Kriesa at 5:51 AM on October 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just a quick update to say THANK YOU to everyone who commented. We tried lots of these suggestions, and have seen a huge improvement.
A big one seems to have been getting him a new twin-sized bed with a really nice mattress. It felt weird buying such an expensive bed for the little guy... for context, the first time I purchased a brand new mattress for myself, he was already 2 years old... But it seems to have been worth it, for the family-wide improvement in sleep. We are lucky to be in a position to be able to spend the money.
posted by EllaEm at 7:49 AM on November 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
A big one seems to have been getting him a new twin-sized bed with a really nice mattress. It felt weird buying such an expensive bed for the little guy... for context, the first time I purchased a brand new mattress for myself, he was already 2 years old... But it seems to have been worth it, for the family-wide improvement in sleep. We are lucky to be in a position to be able to spend the money.
posted by EllaEm at 7:49 AM on November 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2020 [3 favorites]