At Least He's Only Displaying ONE Aspect of the MacDonald Triad...
July 28, 2010 6:20 AM Subscribe
EnuresisFilter: has anyone successfully used a bedwetting alarm with their kindergarten-aged kid? We need some tips before our household grows even more tired, crabby and stinky!
Lil' Thumbscrew is five years old. He still wears pull-ups to bed every night; they're still wet every morning. Our attempts at nighttime potty training have been abject failures (he's been daytime potty-trained for ages). Therefore, we decided to purchase a bedwetting alarm (the non-fancy WetStop, FWIW). He's been using it for about two weeks. If we wake him up to pee an hour into his sleep cycle, the alarm goes off once a night. If we let him sleep, it goes off THREE times a night (at no point is he waking HIMSELF up for a nice nocturnal whiz). By the third "BZZZZZZZZ!", Lil' Thumbscrew and I are both exhausted and frustrated enough to burst into tears. My questions for you, hive mind:
- Is this actually going to work, or are we just torturing ourselves?
- WHEN can we expect to see some sort of change?
- Are there any magic tips for making this more effective? We're already limiting fluids after 6 PM, having him pee twice before bed and waking him up to pee after he's been asleep for an hour. I read something helping one's child develop their PCG muscle by basically training them how to Kegel (whoa, that was NOT PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION when I popped out a kid)?
Oh, a brief addendum: I don't think there are any deep-seated psychological factors involved in Lil' Thumbscrew's midnight micturition problem. He's a happy, healthy, well-adjusted kid. He can count by tens, name the continents and sing along with Wilco. He is awesome.
Lil' Thumbscrew is five years old. He still wears pull-ups to bed every night; they're still wet every morning. Our attempts at nighttime potty training have been abject failures (he's been daytime potty-trained for ages). Therefore, we decided to purchase a bedwetting alarm (the non-fancy WetStop, FWIW). He's been using it for about two weeks. If we wake him up to pee an hour into his sleep cycle, the alarm goes off once a night. If we let him sleep, it goes off THREE times a night (at no point is he waking HIMSELF up for a nice nocturnal whiz). By the third "BZZZZZZZZ!", Lil' Thumbscrew and I are both exhausted and frustrated enough to burst into tears. My questions for you, hive mind:
- Is this actually going to work, or are we just torturing ourselves?
- WHEN can we expect to see some sort of change?
- Are there any magic tips for making this more effective? We're already limiting fluids after 6 PM, having him pee twice before bed and waking him up to pee after he's been asleep for an hour. I read something helping one's child develop their PCG muscle by basically training them how to Kegel (whoa, that was NOT PART OF THE JOB DESCRIPTION when I popped out a kid)?
Oh, a brief addendum: I don't think there are any deep-seated psychological factors involved in Lil' Thumbscrew's midnight micturition problem. He's a happy, healthy, well-adjusted kid. He can count by tens, name the continents and sing along with Wilco. He is awesome.
My nephews used something similar for a while, and it just seemed like it made things worse for the one that was a bit worse with it (fraternal twins). It seemed more like a shaming device than something that was supposed to help, and it seemed as if they viewed it that way as well.
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:39 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:39 AM on July 28, 2010
I know a kid that was well into elementary school and still having this problem every night. Her mom took her to a doctor (this was in Norway) who prescribed some medication that REALLY helped - unfortunately I can't remember the name of the medication now, though it may have been desmopressin. She didn't have to take it for very long - likely not over 6 months, I can't really remember anymore - and then went off it without any trouble with bed-wetting after that.
So - I agree - talk to your pediatrician.
posted by Theresa at 6:43 AM on July 28, 2010
So - I agree - talk to your pediatrician.
posted by Theresa at 6:43 AM on July 28, 2010
Response by poster: Medieval Maven: we're trying to totally avoid any suggestion of shame with Lil' Thumbscrew - don't want to warp the kid for life, naturally. I don't THINK he views it as shameful, but we have been too exhausted to have a talk about it yet.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:47 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:47 AM on July 28, 2010
Studies show that kids who are in the deepest of sleep do not respond to their parents' calling them, alarm clocks going off, or blaring smoke detectors. It's really no wonder he's not waking himself up. It sounds like he's a pretty heavy sleeper. The alarm hasn't worked for the parents I know who have tried it. The kids end up feeling ashamed and singled out (the alarm wakes the whole household who then all know what's up) and it never seemed to stop the bedwetting anyway.
I'm going to assume you've eliminated beverages at nighttime. Perhaps roll back that time another hour (unless you're getting into dinnertime territory with that time). What does his pediatrician say about the enuresis? There's medication, like Theresa said, but it sounds like what's going on now isn't working for any of you.
posted by cooker girl at 6:55 AM on July 28, 2010
I'm going to assume you've eliminated beverages at nighttime. Perhaps roll back that time another hour (unless you're getting into dinnertime territory with that time). What does his pediatrician say about the enuresis? There's medication, like Theresa said, but it sounds like what's going on now isn't working for any of you.
posted by cooker girl at 6:55 AM on July 28, 2010
Best answer: This does work but it can take months. I recall something about it taking longer for very young children; don't know if I'm remembering that correctly.
One of the things that can exacerbate bedwetting is anxiety. A bit of a catch-22 since this treatment initially ramps up the tension levels for both bedwetter and parents. Do your best to not let frustration get to you as it just adds more anxiety to the mix. Try to impart a calm determination to your son - "we're getting the hang of this; it's coming along fine; we'll stick with it a little longer" etc. The more it becomes a calm routine, the less anxiety there is.
Another tip: Encourage him to do more of the 'waking up' steps as this goes on. If you're doing the waking up AND the getting out of bed AND the walking to the bathroom, have him take on more of these steps in a gradual way. It builds a routine that he can take ownership of, and creates a mental checklist for him to associate with the need to pee.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 6:57 AM on July 28, 2010
One of the things that can exacerbate bedwetting is anxiety. A bit of a catch-22 since this treatment initially ramps up the tension levels for both bedwetter and parents. Do your best to not let frustration get to you as it just adds more anxiety to the mix. Try to impart a calm determination to your son - "we're getting the hang of this; it's coming along fine; we'll stick with it a little longer" etc. The more it becomes a calm routine, the less anxiety there is.
Another tip: Encourage him to do more of the 'waking up' steps as this goes on. If you're doing the waking up AND the getting out of bed AND the walking to the bathroom, have him take on more of these steps in a gradual way. It builds a routine that he can take ownership of, and creates a mental checklist for him to associate with the need to pee.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 6:57 AM on July 28, 2010
Speaking as someone who wet the bed until about age 9, just get a plastic mattress cover and let it be. My parents tried everything to get me to stop... rewarding nights when I didn't, making me do my laundry when I did it, talking to me about it. It was really stressful. I'm sure your kid knows there is something wrong. No one wants to wake up in a wet, cold bed. None of these worked, but one day it.. just... stopped. It's possible that I wasn't producing enough ADH, but I think it's more likely that I had a run-of-the-mill developmental delay.
In short, your kid can't control it, and when he can, he'll stop.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 7:03 AM on July 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
In short, your kid can't control it, and when he can, he'll stop.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 7:03 AM on July 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I just noticed the comments about it being viewed as a 'shaming device'. This was definitely true in my case, but I was older than your child and thus more sensitive about anything to do with my problem. If I were you I would avoid directly asking a question like 'does this make you feel ashamed;' it would be best framed as a 'how do you feel' question. Asking about shame tends to create shame (or at least doubt) in my opinion.
For me the embarrassment of having to use it was another motivator to stick with it and get the problem solved. That, combined with the bloody-minded determination to end the sound of that godawful buzzer, got me through.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 7:04 AM on July 28, 2010
For me the embarrassment of having to use it was another motivator to stick with it and get the problem solved. That, combined with the bloody-minded determination to end the sound of that godawful buzzer, got me through.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 7:04 AM on July 28, 2010
Response by poster: Note: as of this morning, Lil' Thumbscrew is more annoyed with the buzzer than anything. "Can we stop using it? I'm tiiiiiiiired!", "Mom, the alarm's cords are 'nnoying!", etc. We do have a reward chart (every dry night earns a star, five stars earn a Nerf gun) about which he is rather excited.
posted by julthumbscrew at 7:10 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by julthumbscrew at 7:10 AM on July 28, 2010
Definitely see a doctor. We had a similar situation and found out my daughter was having bladder spasms. We were referred to a specialist and she took medication for a while, and we worked on getting on a very regular peeing schedule (she would have accidents at school but much less frequently than at night). Even if it isn't a medical issue, the doctor will have advice on how to use the device, and other recommendations.
She outgrew it all in a couple of years, although she still does get herself up at night to pee a lot. We never used the device, but I doubt it would have worked - she's a very heavy sleeper. Instead we used pull-ups and a pad, and washed a lot of bedding. She was never ashamed about the whole thing - we tried to stay very factual about it and just handle each incident as an accident and not a big deal. This started when she was about 4 and I think she took the medication until she was 6 or so.
posted by Sukey Says at 7:27 AM on July 28, 2010
She outgrew it all in a couple of years, although she still does get herself up at night to pee a lot. We never used the device, but I doubt it would have worked - she's a very heavy sleeper. Instead we used pull-ups and a pad, and washed a lot of bedding. She was never ashamed about the whole thing - we tried to stay very factual about it and just handle each incident as an accident and not a big deal. This started when she was about 4 and I think she took the medication until she was 6 or so.
posted by Sukey Says at 7:27 AM on July 28, 2010
Best answer: I'd venture so far as to say a bed wetting five year old is normal. Developmentally and physically he isn't there yet. One day he will be and most parents attribute whatever "cure" they were using at the time as the reason. Thank goddess for pull ups and plastic sheets.
posted by saucysault at 7:34 AM on July 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 7:34 AM on July 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Edit - I meant to say a five year old BOY, girls are usually ahead developmentally on the bladder control but individuals vary greatly obviously.
posted by saucysault at 7:36 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by saucysault at 7:36 AM on July 28, 2010
Hi Jul!
(It's been neat to find you here!)
My niece wet the bed only at night until she was 7? Maybe longer (15 years ago). They ended up having the doc rx a nasal spray to shut down her kidneys at night.
And while Z was potty-trained a year ago, H has been potty-trained for 2 weeks now. We are very excited at the recent progress but they were born 3/24/05 . . . imagine STILL changing poopy diapers at 5.5.
posted by MeiraV at 7:50 AM on July 28, 2010
(It's been neat to find you here!)
My niece wet the bed only at night until she was 7? Maybe longer (15 years ago). They ended up having the doc rx a nasal spray to shut down her kidneys at night.
And while Z was potty-trained a year ago, H has been potty-trained for 2 weeks now. We are very excited at the recent progress but they were born 3/24/05 . . . imagine STILL changing poopy diapers at 5.5.
posted by MeiraV at 7:50 AM on July 28, 2010
Also -- my aunt had the trick of layering the bed --flannel waterproof pad, sheet, flannel waterproof pad, sheet, flannel waterproof pad, sheet -- so middle-of the night accidents just involved taking off the top layer . . . if/when you get to that point . . .
posted by MeiraV at 7:53 AM on July 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by MeiraV at 7:53 AM on July 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Rewards, while good-intentioned and really exciting and fun for him, will not stop the bed-wetting. I worry that he will be disappointed in himself or frustrated if they don't work.
Me too. I had a problem with bed-wetting well past the normal age. Luckily, my mom knew that it was a physical problem and was very matter-of-fact about dealing with it, which minimized the trauma. I think the rewards chart would have reinforced the idea that it was something I could control, which would have made me feel frustrated and resentful.
At five he might not have a very developed sense of these things. I don't know. I don't really remember being five.
My best coping strategy was simply a large trash bag and a towel put over my sheets, so if it happened I could just throw away the trash bag, then rinse out the towel and throw it in the laundry. (I'm sure there are better devices that do the same work, made specifically for bed-wetters. But the shorter the took to deal with the bed-wetting consequences, the less frustrating for me and my mom, because we could go right back to sleep.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:18 AM on July 28, 2010
Me too. I had a problem with bed-wetting well past the normal age. Luckily, my mom knew that it was a physical problem and was very matter-of-fact about dealing with it, which minimized the trauma. I think the rewards chart would have reinforced the idea that it was something I could control, which would have made me feel frustrated and resentful.
At five he might not have a very developed sense of these things. I don't know. I don't really remember being five.
My best coping strategy was simply a large trash bag and a towel put over my sheets, so if it happened I could just throw away the trash bag, then rinse out the towel and throw it in the laundry. (I'm sure there are better devices that do the same work, made specifically for bed-wetters. But the shorter the took to deal with the bed-wetting consequences, the less frustrating for me and my mom, because we could go right back to sleep.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:18 AM on July 28, 2010
Rewards, while good-intentioned and really exciting and fun for him, will not stop the bed-wetting.
QFT
I'm not a parent but rewarding/punishing him for something that is completely out of his control seems wrong. Its not like he's just too lazy to get out of bed, if he doesn't wake up when he needs to pee, he doesn't wake up. He can't wake himself up.
You should probably take him to a doctor though, just to be sure, wetting the bed 3 times during the night, particularly if you're not giving him liquids after 6pm and making him pee twice before bed. How often does he go to the bathroom during the day?
posted by missmagenta at 8:23 AM on July 28, 2010
QFT
I'm not a parent but rewarding/punishing him for something that is completely out of his control seems wrong. Its not like he's just too lazy to get out of bed, if he doesn't wake up when he needs to pee, he doesn't wake up. He can't wake himself up.
You should probably take him to a doctor though, just to be sure, wetting the bed 3 times during the night, particularly if you're not giving him liquids after 6pm and making him pee twice before bed. How often does he go to the bathroom during the day?
posted by missmagenta at 8:23 AM on July 28, 2010
When my son was that age, he would wet the bed. Like you, the doctor ruled out any external source (UTI, etc.) and told me he would grow out of it.
Since stress can make it worse, I would try to de-stress it as much as possible. Use pullups, and a matress bag/liner, him showering in the morning, and just deal with making the bed as part of the morning routine.
We tried the alarm thing and found that it would not wake my (admittedly heavy sleeping) son most nights and was just frustrating him otherwise. It didn't work that great, and I quit after a few weeks.
He eventually grew out of it by around age 6 or so. Given the cost of pullups, it was like I had gotten a pay raise :-)
So, I would say that it's worth a try, but you're probably better off just waiting for him to outgrow it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:58 AM on July 28, 2010
Since stress can make it worse, I would try to de-stress it as much as possible. Use pullups, and a matress bag/liner, him showering in the morning, and just deal with making the bed as part of the morning routine.
We tried the alarm thing and found that it would not wake my (admittedly heavy sleeping) son most nights and was just frustrating him otherwise. It didn't work that great, and I quit after a few weeks.
He eventually grew out of it by around age 6 or so. Given the cost of pullups, it was like I had gotten a pay raise :-)
So, I would say that it's worth a try, but you're probably better off just waiting for him to outgrow it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:58 AM on July 28, 2010
I had the alarm when I was a kid. It didn't work. It would go off and I would just unplug it (the buzzer thing was connected to the sensor with a cord) and then I would go back to sleep and...well...
I think Tofranil worked.
Even now I sleep through pretty much anything. But I don't wet the bed anymore. Eventually it just stops. Some of the pills might help but don't bother with the alarm.
posted by massysett at 9:35 AM on July 28, 2010
I think Tofranil worked.
Even now I sleep through pretty much anything. But I don't wet the bed anymore. Eventually it just stops. Some of the pills might help but don't bother with the alarm.
posted by massysett at 9:35 AM on July 28, 2010
A urologist strongly recommended removing dyes and artificial flavorings from the child's diet. I'd also add vitamin c and cranberry juice to the diet, as they seem to promote bladder health. Bladder control is one of many unconscious muscle controls. Try a sticker chart on which you put a sticker for every dry car ride, dry nap, and work up to dry nights. No big fuss, just a reward. Maybe a matchbox car for dry nights, or something. The reward has a subconscious effect.
posted by theora55 at 9:49 AM on July 28, 2010
posted by theora55 at 9:49 AM on July 28, 2010
Former bedwetter here- my parents tried everything including the alarm. The alarm was one of the most traumatic methods for me. It was loud and scary and eventually made me afraid to fall asleep.
I have a small bladder AND I sleep very deeply so I think getting me to wake up on my own was a big challenge.
I know it's frustrating (my son wet until he was about 8) but he'll grow out of it evenually. Usually around the time they are old enough to go on sleepovers.
posted by Ochre,Hugh at 11:16 AM on July 28, 2010
I have a small bladder AND I sleep very deeply so I think getting me to wake up on my own was a big challenge.
I know it's frustrating (my son wet until he was about 8) but he'll grow out of it evenually. Usually around the time they are old enough to go on sleepovers.
posted by Ochre,Hugh at 11:16 AM on July 28, 2010
As others are suggesting, research indicates that having a small bladder and being unable to wake up to the alarm are the strongest predictors of the alarm system not working for a kid. Nthing talking to your pediatrician.
posted by synchronia at 12:24 PM on July 28, 2010
posted by synchronia at 12:24 PM on July 28, 2010
Best answer: Some kids just wet the bed; that is the way it is. If you go to bed a couple of hours later than he does, you might find it easier just to wake him up and walk him to the toilet and, as we say, "pee him" every night. (I cringe at this, because of course "pee" is *not* a transitive verb.) We found that ours grew out of it. An hour after bedtime might be too soon; try 90 minutes or 2 hours. I don't see where he is going to get new fluid from during the night if you can get him to pee once during the night.
posted by Mr. Justice at 12:30 PM on July 28, 2010
posted by Mr. Justice at 12:30 PM on July 28, 2010
My seven and a half year old just used one of those alarms last month and had his night time pee accidents taken care of in about a week. I am positive that if we had tried it much earlier we would have failed. I have other kids older and younger than he is and they were both out of the night pee accident stage well before him. It is different for everyone.
If the alarm doesn't work for him after a week or two, I'd go back to pullups for several more months and then try again.
Good luck!
posted by thatone at 4:39 PM on July 28, 2010
If the alarm doesn't work for him after a week or two, I'd go back to pullups for several more months and then try again.
Good luck!
posted by thatone at 4:39 PM on July 28, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone, for all your help (and HI, Meira! Fancy seeing you here!). I believe we're going to continue trying the alarm but SOLELY as a classical conditioning device (i.e. "good/bad" will NOT be involved in any way - not that "bad" was before, but you get the drift). If it doesn't work after another week or two, we will accept that his lil' body just isn't ready and revert to buying pull-ups by the pallet until he's a bit older.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:27 AM on July 29, 2010
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:27 AM on July 29, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Turns out? I have a really small bladder!
Guess what else! My dad and all his siblings were bed wetters!
Talk to your pediatrician, because this may only resolve with time, rather than training.
(I am not a parent, I have never heard of this alarm.)
posted by bilabial at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2010