Explain attending New York City public schools to me
August 31, 2020 12:20 PM Subscribe
My family spent some time last year trying to parse how Los Angeles Unified School District works: how elementary schools are assigned, magnets, gifted programs, charter enrolement, etc. We struggled! We felt dirty! And now we're trying to do it all over again for NYC. Please help!
This is a very open ended question, so I think the most useful thing anyone could do is point me in the direction of a resource like this website, but for NYC schools rather than LAUSD. Any pointers? Happy to pay for a book, but would probably not go as far as hiring someone for advice?
Otherwise, here are some examples of the kind of things. The DOE website makes quite difficult to figure this stuff out from the perspective of someone who doesn't (yet) live in NYC. Whether we move depends somewhat on the answers to these questions, so we have kind of a chicken and egg problem.
And this question is not about COVID. We're a couple of years away from dealing with this.
This is a very open ended question, so I think the most useful thing anyone could do is point me in the direction of a resource like this website, but for NYC schools rather than LAUSD. Any pointers? Happy to pay for a book, but would probably not go as far as hiring someone for advice?
Otherwise, here are some examples of the kind of things. The DOE website makes quite difficult to figure this stuff out from the perspective of someone who doesn't (yet) live in NYC. Whether we move depends somewhat on the answers to these questions, so we have kind of a chicken and egg problem.
- How does default school assignment work? Is each home in exactly one school's area, and you go to that school? Is that true at all levels K-12? Or am I right in thinking you can basically go wherever (or wherever you can test into) for high school?
- Are there selective public schools, magnet schools, gifted programs, language schools, etc.? At all grade levels? How do you go to those instead of your local school(s)?
- Are there public statistics on acceptance rates for non-community (selective, lottery, etc.) schools?
- Do charter and public schools share real estate?
- Do/can people transfer out of NYC DOE schools to neigboring suburban school districts, while continuing to live in NYC? Do they need both NYC and destination district cooperation to do this? In what circumstances is that cooperation offered?
- LAUSD has an "official" school rating that claims to directly measure "Academic Growth" in a way that, e.g. Great Schools or Niche do not. Does NYC have a similar system
- For anyone who's familiar with both LAUSD and NYC, how would you compare them? My impression is that NYC is significantly better funded and better run. Is that fair?
- Are their places where people talk about this stuff where I could go to see how other people are handling it, maybe ask questions? Not Facebook!
- What was your NYC school journey? Any general comments, lessons learned, etc. you'd share with someone about to do it?
And this question is not about COVID. We're a couple of years away from dealing with this.
No. 4: “regular” and charter schools share real estate often.
posted by sandmanwv at 2:37 PM on August 31, 2020
posted by sandmanwv at 2:37 PM on August 31, 2020
There are more g&t schools in Manhattan than that. There are two varieties, city wide and district wide ( there is a third, Hunter with a different process and is k-12). You take the same test for both. Broadly speaking the citywide ones offer something special. I'm not sure the district wide ones have better outcomes than better zoned schools. Realistically most people are cramming their kids for the exam and the stated thresholds won't get you in unless you are a sibling (97th for city wide but I think the two in Manhattan, Anderson and Nest were 99 and then some selection within that.)
1. Zones really matter at the elementary level only. While being in zone does not guarantee you get a seat in your zoned school broadly speaking you'd have to be some degree of unlucky to not get one. Pre-K is a different story. Siblings always get in to K. Zones do occasionally change so broadly speaking if you have an infant don't buy a place because it's in a good zone. "Good Zones" are fraught with all of the race and class stuff just like anywhere. My kids old school had way less diversity on any axis than friends private schools did and we where in one of the best Zones in the city. Once you are in middle school there are many degrees of freedom with your zoned IS as your fall back. The zoned ISs (by reputation) are weaker.
High School you are expected to travel for and there is lots of choice. Some is tested, some is interviews, and there is always some fall back choice.
2. I think addressed, but broadly yes.
3.yes. Maybe from the BoE? Very controversial especially for Stuy, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech.
4. Very much so. Also not uncommon for there to be multiple public schools in the same building. My kids PS had a selective IS in the same building. Tho they did a nice job of keeping everyone separate.
5.hard no.
6. Yes. The data exists. It is problematic, but it exists.
7&8 n/a
9. Once we got past the horrific physical plant our kids school was great. We left because my wife works in the burbs. The received wisdom is that it's at the middle school level where the system starts to break. A lot of the families in our school planned on leaving for the burbs at that point as they couldn't make private school work. I have no idea if that was right. Bluntly I knew we'd be gone before then.
posted by JPD at 3:47 PM on August 31, 2020
1. Zones really matter at the elementary level only. While being in zone does not guarantee you get a seat in your zoned school broadly speaking you'd have to be some degree of unlucky to not get one. Pre-K is a different story. Siblings always get in to K. Zones do occasionally change so broadly speaking if you have an infant don't buy a place because it's in a good zone. "Good Zones" are fraught with all of the race and class stuff just like anywhere. My kids old school had way less diversity on any axis than friends private schools did and we where in one of the best Zones in the city. Once you are in middle school there are many degrees of freedom with your zoned IS as your fall back. The zoned ISs (by reputation) are weaker.
High School you are expected to travel for and there is lots of choice. Some is tested, some is interviews, and there is always some fall back choice.
2. I think addressed, but broadly yes.
3.yes. Maybe from the BoE? Very controversial especially for Stuy, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech.
4. Very much so. Also not uncommon for there to be multiple public schools in the same building. My kids PS had a selective IS in the same building. Tho they did a nice job of keeping everyone separate.
5.hard no.
6. Yes. The data exists. It is problematic, but it exists.
7&8 n/a
9. Once we got past the horrific physical plant our kids school was great. We left because my wife works in the burbs. The received wisdom is that it's at the middle school level where the system starts to break. A lot of the families in our school planned on leaving for the burbs at that point as they couldn't make private school work. I have no idea if that was right. Bluntly I knew we'd be gone before then.
posted by JPD at 3:47 PM on August 31, 2020
You didn't ask about this, but it's worth knowing that we have universal public pre-K for 4 year-olds and in certain districts for 3 year-olds. In my immediate area, at least, the options include pre-K classes inside elementary schools, private preschools that have been contracted to provide DOE pre-K, and in one case, a huge pre-K-only school. I am very much looking forward to not paying for a year of preschool!
posted by the_blizz at 4:04 PM on August 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by the_blizz at 4:04 PM on August 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
Background: I have a 7th grader who has been in the NYC public school system for the entirety of her schooling career. We live in Queens.
1. You have a zoned school at every level. This is most important in elementary. You are guaranteed a spot in your zoned school (it's very rare that this does not work out).
2. There are all sorts of selective, magnet, dual language programs. I can only speak to my school district, but they seem to more of a thing in elementary than middle schools. (For example, elementary Spanish-English dual language programs are rampant in my district, but there appears to be only one or two middle school programs and most of the kids I know who were in DL for elementary dropped it in middle.)
You apply for these in different ways, e.g. testing for gifted programs, a brief meeting for DL programs. Sometimes you just check them off on your online kindergarten application and don't have to do anything extra.
3. yep. The DOE has an admissions handbook that has that info.
4. In my district, yes, and it's problematic.
5. no
6. I think so, but it's not something I look into much
7. not familiar
8. I talk about it on facebook, so that's not helpful (My school district has an exceptional parent-run facebook page that doesn't seem to have its equal throughout the city, per parents who have kids in other districts/boroughs)
9. One kid, she went to non-zoned school in their district gifted program. (City wide gifteds are essentially a lottery - they are officially for kids who score 97 and up, but so many kids do, plus sibling preference, means that even if your kid scores a 99 - mine did - they are not guaranteed a spot in a city-wide gifted program.) Our elementary school was fantastic. Cannot say enough good things about it. Wonderful extra programs, caring, stable teacher population and an accessible, hardworking principal.
Admissions in general are as stressful as you want to make them. Some parents freak the hell out, but it's really not that much. you go to some open houses, you pick your schools, you wait to get told where your kid is going.
Middle school has been great for my daughter as well. Although of course, it got interrupted. But we were very happy with it.
posted by gaspode at 7:20 AM on September 1, 2020
1. You have a zoned school at every level. This is most important in elementary. You are guaranteed a spot in your zoned school (it's very rare that this does not work out).
2. There are all sorts of selective, magnet, dual language programs. I can only speak to my school district, but they seem to more of a thing in elementary than middle schools. (For example, elementary Spanish-English dual language programs are rampant in my district, but there appears to be only one or two middle school programs and most of the kids I know who were in DL for elementary dropped it in middle.)
You apply for these in different ways, e.g. testing for gifted programs, a brief meeting for DL programs. Sometimes you just check them off on your online kindergarten application and don't have to do anything extra.
3. yep. The DOE has an admissions handbook that has that info.
4. In my district, yes, and it's problematic.
5. no
6. I think so, but it's not something I look into much
7. not familiar
8. I talk about it on facebook, so that's not helpful (My school district has an exceptional parent-run facebook page that doesn't seem to have its equal throughout the city, per parents who have kids in other districts/boroughs)
9. One kid, she went to non-zoned school in their district gifted program. (City wide gifteds are essentially a lottery - they are officially for kids who score 97 and up, but so many kids do, plus sibling preference, means that even if your kid scores a 99 - mine did - they are not guaranteed a spot in a city-wide gifted program.) Our elementary school was fantastic. Cannot say enough good things about it. Wonderful extra programs, caring, stable teacher population and an accessible, hardworking principal.
Admissions in general are as stressful as you want to make them. Some parents freak the hell out, but it's really not that much. you go to some open houses, you pick your schools, you wait to get told where your kid is going.
Middle school has been great for my daughter as well. Although of course, it got interrupted. But we were very happy with it.
posted by gaspode at 7:20 AM on September 1, 2020
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The advice to move to a school district where you're going to be happy to send your child is the right advice.
The DOE recommends that you find housing in the zone of a school you like and to which you would be willing to send your child, because it is highly unlikely that your child will be placed in a grades K-5 Gifted and Talented (G&T) classroom upon entering the New York City public school system. The Anderson School has only G&T classrooms in grades K-5 and admission to those classes is run by the DOE.
My sister teaches in this school. Her daughter did not get in and goes to the public school local to their home, which is in their affluent Upper West Side neighbourhood and is very good.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2020