Is There A Path Forward to Moving Out of the US for Me?
August 6, 2020 10:07 AM Subscribe
I would love to leave the U.S. and be an ex-pat in some other country that has a minimum basic quality of life that feels unachievable here. I just don't know how that would be possible for me - if you have info on a way forward, I'd love to hear as much as you can give. Details inside.
I know everything is different right now because of Coronavirus, but I'm open to longer term plans as well. Everything I've researched about emigrating, though, indicates that you need to be either independently wealthy, be able to work remotely, or have a career that would be transferable/desirable to another country in order to get a visa/permission to live there.
I'm 35 years old and my careers so far have been in mental health and currently in ASL interpreting. Obviously the American Sign Language doesn't really transfer to many other countries, so that seems like a non-starter. I'd be open to another change in jobs but with degrees in psychology and interpreting, don't know what else I'd be qualified for.
When I look into teaching-english-abroad programs, most of them geared toward younger college age adults, living cheaply and nomading through Europe or Asia while doing that. I'm looking for stability: a full-time job, a permanent residence, etc. If I'm way off, then I'd love to hear more about the details of that potential path.
I don't have any dual-citizenship options that I know of since both of my sets of grandparents were born in the U.S. I'm willing to learn another language if that would be helpful. I also don't know how student loans/taxes would work for an ex-pat, so those are two potential barriers to making this viable.
So I guess my questions are... what countries are easiest/most possible to emigrate to? How does an extremely average person do that sort of thing, or is it even possible? Once someone emigrates, are they able to achieve that basic quality of life, like getting healthcare coverage and employment?
I'm sorry that this question is so meandering - it's pretty reflective of how I'm feeling in general right now. I'm happy to answer follow up questions as needed. But I am just. so. tired. of living in this country. Everything feels like a struggle here.
I know everything is different right now because of Coronavirus, but I'm open to longer term plans as well. Everything I've researched about emigrating, though, indicates that you need to be either independently wealthy, be able to work remotely, or have a career that would be transferable/desirable to another country in order to get a visa/permission to live there.
I'm 35 years old and my careers so far have been in mental health and currently in ASL interpreting. Obviously the American Sign Language doesn't really transfer to many other countries, so that seems like a non-starter. I'd be open to another change in jobs but with degrees in psychology and interpreting, don't know what else I'd be qualified for.
When I look into teaching-english-abroad programs, most of them geared toward younger college age adults, living cheaply and nomading through Europe or Asia while doing that. I'm looking for stability: a full-time job, a permanent residence, etc. If I'm way off, then I'd love to hear more about the details of that potential path.
I don't have any dual-citizenship options that I know of since both of my sets of grandparents were born in the U.S. I'm willing to learn another language if that would be helpful. I also don't know how student loans/taxes would work for an ex-pat, so those are two potential barriers to making this viable.
So I guess my questions are... what countries are easiest/most possible to emigrate to? How does an extremely average person do that sort of thing, or is it even possible? Once someone emigrates, are they able to achieve that basic quality of life, like getting healthcare coverage and employment?
I'm sorry that this question is so meandering - it's pretty reflective of how I'm feeling in general right now. I'm happy to answer follow up questions as needed. But I am just. so. tired. of living in this country. Everything feels like a struggle here.
There is a really good thread on Reddit's r/IWantOut about Americans that would like to move to Europe.
Fair warning: it's going to contain some tough love, but it's worth reading.
posted by vitout at 10:23 AM on August 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
Fair warning: it's going to contain some tough love, but it's worth reading.
posted by vitout at 10:23 AM on August 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
A quick google search says that ASL is primary sign language used in Canada. Perhaps that will provide an avenue for you? You could likely find a masters program related to that and go from there?
posted by raccoon409 at 10:25 AM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by raccoon409 at 10:25 AM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Teaching English abroad is stereotypically the preserve of younger people doing it for a year or two, but I have a relative who has made a career and permanent home out of it (in Germany). So don't rule out TESOL on that basis, but do investigate the more reputable certification programs (CELTA is one, there are others).
posted by altolinguistic at 10:39 AM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by altolinguistic at 10:39 AM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is going to be difficult, but not undoable. The main thing is to be organized -- you are going to need to set up a personal spreadsheet or database outlining each country you're conceptually interested in, and then organizing all of the information about them so that you can subsequently rank your options.
I'm serious. You will need to be organizing information about skill point systems, how many points you think you have in each, what points you may be able to reasonably acquire in the near term, and so on. You will also want to keep track of the various fees associated with each immigration system; they can be pretty substantial in some cases and you may need to start saving up to make sure you have money for the move, for getting settled, and still have enough for the fees.
Then create a separate spreadsheet/database for the various educational institutions you are potentially interested in as well, rank them, and think about starting to apply.
You could also try the Dutch/American Friendship Treaty visa, if you think you can qualify. If you were able to get up to speed on other sign languages (at least dutch, anyway) I think you'd stand a pretty fair shot as a translation entrepreneur.
posted by aramaic at 10:50 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm serious. You will need to be organizing information about skill point systems, how many points you think you have in each, what points you may be able to reasonably acquire in the near term, and so on. You will also want to keep track of the various fees associated with each immigration system; they can be pretty substantial in some cases and you may need to start saving up to make sure you have money for the move, for getting settled, and still have enough for the fees.
Then create a separate spreadsheet/database for the various educational institutions you are potentially interested in as well, rank them, and think about starting to apply.
You could also try the Dutch/American Friendship Treaty visa, if you think you can qualify. If you were able to get up to speed on other sign languages (at least dutch, anyway) I think you'd stand a pretty fair shot as a translation entrepreneur.
posted by aramaic at 10:50 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
New Zealand has a useful website laying out some options.
posted by pinochiette at 10:51 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by pinochiette at 10:51 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you can afford to go back to school in Canada, you can get an international study permit easily, which leads to a post-graduate work permit & the possibility of permanent residence. Under the study permit you can work up to 20 hours a week during the school year and full time in the summer/during breaks from school. You would have to have some proof of funds to support yourself and pay for school in order to get the permit (I think it can be proceeds of a loan, you just send them bank statements).
Study permits are for all types of training not just four year or graduate degrees so you could get one to do technical training in a year or two as well. Schools are generally cheaper in Canada than the US. The cheapest schools for international students are in places where folks don't want to live, like Newfoundland, the Maritimes, or rural Manitoba. The most expensive international student schools are in places where everyone wants to live, like Vancouver/Vancouver Island and Toronto.
Also look into the Federal Skilled Worker Express Entry program since you have skilled work experience and an education. That's what my significant other and I are doing.
posted by zdravo at 11:18 AM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Study permits are for all types of training not just four year or graduate degrees so you could get one to do technical training in a year or two as well. Schools are generally cheaper in Canada than the US. The cheapest schools for international students are in places where folks don't want to live, like Newfoundland, the Maritimes, or rural Manitoba. The most expensive international student schools are in places where everyone wants to live, like Vancouver/Vancouver Island and Toronto.
Also look into the Federal Skilled Worker Express Entry program since you have skilled work experience and an education. That's what my significant other and I are doing.
posted by zdravo at 11:18 AM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Every country’s criteria is different. First you need to work out where you want to live, then what they require to move there and go through the list and see what you need to do to satisfy their requirements, whether it’s getting a different degree etc. I know you’re only 35 but also keep in mind that for some countries there might be age limits, just in case you were thinking about starting down this track in five years or so and taking another five or ten years to get a degree part time.
Also keep in mind that requirements change! For example, in Australia one of the main ways to get in (if you don’t have family to sponsor you) is to have a skill that is in demand to satisfy the points criteria. The thing is though, a skill that is in demand at one stage not be in five or ten years - for example mining. So I’d start by figuring out where you’d like to live and go from there or see if there are countries who need the skills you already have.
posted by Jubey at 11:26 AM on August 6, 2020
Also keep in mind that requirements change! For example, in Australia one of the main ways to get in (if you don’t have family to sponsor you) is to have a skill that is in demand to satisfy the points criteria. The thing is though, a skill that is in demand at one stage not be in five or ten years - for example mining. So I’d start by figuring out where you’d like to live and go from there or see if there are countries who need the skills you already have.
posted by Jubey at 11:26 AM on August 6, 2020
Excellent link, vitout. I approve of its embedded (and way more realistic) suggestion to relocate to somewhere else in the US.
Exception, maybe: You have some passport-acquiring relationship with the Old Country.
posted by Rash at 11:37 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Exception, maybe: You have some passport-acquiring relationship with the Old Country.
posted by Rash at 11:37 AM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I would be open to going to school again in theory, but I have six figures of student loan debt already from a 2-year Master's degree here in the US (I was young and naive, and will regret it forever, but it is what it is).
As for where I would want to live, my issue is "I guess it depends on who would have me." There are some personal dealbreakers (like super freezing super long winters would make me depressed), but otherwise I'm at the end of my rope here and willing to consider any options.
Thanks for all the info so far, I may have to research some of these options more closely. Keep any info/opinions coming, I appreciate it!
posted by carlypennylane at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2020
As for where I would want to live, my issue is "I guess it depends on who would have me." There are some personal dealbreakers (like super freezing super long winters would make me depressed), but otherwise I'm at the end of my rope here and willing to consider any options.
Thanks for all the info so far, I may have to research some of these options more closely. Keep any info/opinions coming, I appreciate it!
posted by carlypennylane at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2020
Maybe look at Nordic countries for a graduate degree and then find ways to learn the language and stay on.
posted by tarvuz at 12:32 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by tarvuz at 12:32 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Hungary can grant citizenship for great-grandparents having been citizens there, if one also learns Hungarian. Italy can grant citizenship via descent with no upper limit to how many generations back the citizens were, if you can prove it.
posted by xo at 2:27 PM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by xo at 2:27 PM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
You could take a crash course in web development - about 4 months - intern somewhere for a year - move on to a real job paying $50K a year and then do the digital nomad thing for a while until you decide where to settle down at.
posted by COD at 3:41 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by COD at 3:41 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
You mentioned work in the Mental Health field, if you are a psychologist or social worker you can work in Canada with a TN Visa (known also as the NAFTA visa). It is issued automatically at the border with proof of a valid job offer. Once you have the visa you are covered by the universal health care immediately (at some point it will go back to a three month waiting period). Getting the job offer might be the difficult part. I know of two Deaf schools - one in Milton and one in Kingston, so you might want to see if either school requires someone with your qualifications. (Here is a recent job posting for Milton - it doesn’t say but I would ballpark the salary around $70,000, a psychologist job, the Milton Hilton (Women’s prision), a well-know agency looking for SW or Pysch), psychology etc) Southern Ontario and Victoria/Vancouver have the mildest winters, they are also the most expensive. Once you are in with the NAFTA visa you can start the path to permanent residency. Good luck.
posted by saucysault at 3:52 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 3:52 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
If you want to permanently leave your home country the USA, it’s important to realize that you want to be an immigrant, not an ex-pat. It’s good to be an immigrant! But calling yourself an “ex-pat” will do you no favors in any country you’d like to immigrate to. It just makes you sound like you think you’re better than everyone else, your native countryfolk included.
posted by weed donkey at 4:40 PM on August 6, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by weed donkey at 4:40 PM on August 6, 2020 [10 favorites]
Not emigrating per se but US corporations have divisions in other countries, the US government has civilian jobs on US military bases abroad which could be a stepping stone to resettling elsewhere.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:53 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:53 PM on August 6, 2020
Response by poster: (weed donkey, thanks! I didn't know there was a difference. Thinking I'm better than everyone else is exactly opposite to the reason I want to leave.)
posted by carlypennylane at 4:54 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by carlypennylane at 4:54 PM on August 6, 2020
My mother lived outside the U.S. and taught English for five years when she was in her 60's. She lived first in China teaching at a University, then in Costa Rica and then Colombia teaching for private English schools. She lived off of her income. She had an especially good experience in Medellin, Colombia, which is quite affordable and a very nice place to live (friendly, great transit system, lively culture, fairly cosmopolitan).
She moved there without hardly any Spanish and made friends with some ex-pats, some Colombians who spoke English, and some who didn't, though she's a uniquely outgoing person.
She got a work visa sponsored by her workplace in each case. Obviously COVID has probably changed the equation in terms of who is being allowed in and whether those visas are being granted right now.
posted by mai at 5:27 PM on August 6, 2020
She moved there without hardly any Spanish and made friends with some ex-pats, some Colombians who spoke English, and some who didn't, though she's a uniquely outgoing person.
She got a work visa sponsored by her workplace in each case. Obviously COVID has probably changed the equation in terms of who is being allowed in and whether those visas are being granted right now.
posted by mai at 5:27 PM on August 6, 2020
I cannot think of a country worth moving to that would want someone who is massively in debt. Unless you offerr something super duper amazing that they cannot get in country. Sorry to be a downer. And since the majority of those countries have dark freezing winters I am struggling to think of where you might go.
posted by tarvuz at 11:44 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by tarvuz at 11:44 PM on August 6, 2020
carlpennylane, I have been an expat now for 25+ years. I've been moving around, not looking to root myself anywhere specifically, although as oldness looms I am starting to think about that.
What you want to do is absolutely possible.
This is going to be difficult, but not undoable. The main thing is to be organized -- you are going to need to set up a personal spreadsheet or database outlining each country you're conceptually interested in, and then organizing all of the information about them so that you can subsequently rank your options.
This is one approach, geared towards find a place, choose it, and work to be there forever. It seems to me like a sensible thing to do! As an alternative, I would suggest that you'd benefit from first selecting a place and trying it out... a year down the road it might not be the place you want to be.
I feel like I might be a useful resource for you but in a more general / big picture sense than in answering your "where should I go now?" main question. Feel free to hit me up off-page - skype thomas.edward.topham or email thomas.topham (gmail).
All the best, I hope you can make this work!
posted by Meatbomb at 12:03 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
What you want to do is absolutely possible.
This is going to be difficult, but not undoable. The main thing is to be organized -- you are going to need to set up a personal spreadsheet or database outlining each country you're conceptually interested in, and then organizing all of the information about them so that you can subsequently rank your options.
This is one approach, geared towards find a place, choose it, and work to be there forever. It seems to me like a sensible thing to do! As an alternative, I would suggest that you'd benefit from first selecting a place and trying it out... a year down the road it might not be the place you want to be.
I feel like I might be a useful resource for you but in a more general / big picture sense than in answering your "where should I go now?" main question. Feel free to hit me up off-page - skype thomas.edward.topham or email thomas.topham (gmail).
All the best, I hope you can make this work!
posted by Meatbomb at 12:03 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Coming to Canada with a TN Visa may seem like the easiest path to permanent residency, but it's a bit of a trap... It is designed for professionals who don't intend to stay permanently, which is why it has to be renewed every year. I know from experience that the border agents who get to approve TN visas can be very capricious and will deny you with no appeal if there's even a little gleam in your eye that hints you might want to stay long-term. I had a TN visa 20 years ago that was denied/approved/denied again, and it's still causing me trouble every time I cross the border because they're so scared I might want to stay in the US.
posted by Freyja at 8:48 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Freyja at 8:48 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread from last year might interest you, though some of the practical aspects covered in the responses you seem already to be aware of.
The suggestion in the r/Iwantout thread to consider relocating within the US is interesting too. I'm not sure where you are or how you're measuring quality of life (overall affordability? access to art and culture? health regulations?), but it may be worth considering whether changing cities/regions within the US could help you find what you're looking for, if you haven't already.
To be brief, I agree that finding a way to get your foot in the door via a master's or doctoral program or a TEFL scheme may be your best bet, if for no other purpose than to get a feel for life in the country in question. Coronavirus may indeed make this more complicated for the foreseeable future. Best of luck.
posted by peakes at 10:57 AM on August 7, 2020
The suggestion in the r/Iwantout thread to consider relocating within the US is interesting too. I'm not sure where you are or how you're measuring quality of life (overall affordability? access to art and culture? health regulations?), but it may be worth considering whether changing cities/regions within the US could help you find what you're looking for, if you haven't already.
To be brief, I agree that finding a way to get your foot in the door via a master's or doctoral program or a TEFL scheme may be your best bet, if for no other purpose than to get a feel for life in the country in question. Coronavirus may indeed make this more complicated for the foreseeable future. Best of luck.
posted by peakes at 10:57 AM on August 7, 2020
I can speak to New Zealand (in generalities, as its illegal for anyone who isn't a licensed advisor to provide immigration advice):
First up, our borders are closed at the moment. Only citizens and PRs can get in (minor exceptions for *very* specialist workers). This will last a while (my guess is 1-2 years), as there's a hard limit on how many people we can quarantine at any one time, and we prioritise citizens [everyone who comes in must enter managed quarantine for 14 days]. At the moment, you can only apply for a visa if you're already in NZ (this page used to have a link for 'I am outside NZ').
On the upside: we have a points-based system, as well as a skills shortlist that includes a number of mental health jobs. The skilled migrant work visa is described here (there's a link bottom right to the points calculator). So that might be an option in the future, once the borders open. I certainly know plenty of Americans who are here on a similar visa.
Australia operates a similar system AFAIK, and I believe the UK is talking about moving to one after Brexit, but can't speak to those in detail.
tarvuz: I cannot think of a country worth moving to that would want someone who is massively in debt.
That hasn't been my experience - I was never asked about debt levels when I got UK visas, and I have friends with significant (high five figures) student debts who obtained visas in the UK and Australia.
posted by Pink Frost at 1:54 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
First up, our borders are closed at the moment. Only citizens and PRs can get in (minor exceptions for *very* specialist workers). This will last a while (my guess is 1-2 years), as there's a hard limit on how many people we can quarantine at any one time, and we prioritise citizens [everyone who comes in must enter managed quarantine for 14 days]. At the moment, you can only apply for a visa if you're already in NZ (this page used to have a link for 'I am outside NZ').
On the upside: we have a points-based system, as well as a skills shortlist that includes a number of mental health jobs. The skilled migrant work visa is described here (there's a link bottom right to the points calculator). So that might be an option in the future, once the borders open. I certainly know plenty of Americans who are here on a similar visa.
Australia operates a similar system AFAIK, and I believe the UK is talking about moving to one after Brexit, but can't speak to those in detail.
tarvuz: I cannot think of a country worth moving to that would want someone who is massively in debt.
That hasn't been my experience - I was never asked about debt levels when I got UK visas, and I have friends with significant (high five figures) student debts who obtained visas in the UK and Australia.
posted by Pink Frost at 1:54 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Freya: I had a TN visa 20 years ago that was denied/approved/denied again, and it's still causing me trouble every time I cross the border because they're so scared I might want to stay in the US.
I agree the US Border Agents looks down on the TN Visa issued to Canadian citizens, but the OP is an American Citizen wanting to come to Canada and the US Border agents opinions are irrelevant.
posted by saucysault at 5:13 PM on August 7, 2020
I agree the US Border Agents looks down on the TN Visa issued to Canadian citizens, but the OP is an American Citizen wanting to come to Canada and the US Border agents opinions are irrelevant.
posted by saucysault at 5:13 PM on August 7, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
Beyond that, it's definitely possible, but it really depends on the country. Canadian immigration is notoriously difficult, however they do have a relatively straightforward points system for the skilled worker program in many provinces which you can look up online to see whether you would meet the threshold.
posted by mekily at 10:22 AM on August 6, 2020