Emigrate to the US or Canada

December 13, 2005 5:41 AM

Im english and live in England. This county is f***ed i would like to emigrate to the US or Canada, can i? How can i do it? I have a good job working in TV so its not like im a bum or something.
posted by indio1919 to work & money (38 comments total)

That's a question only you can answer.

Have you googled for "immigration US process"
posted by bshort at 5:49 AM on December 13, 2005

If you want to immigrate to Canada, you'd most likely do so as a skilled worker. To qualify it's on a basis of points that reflect things like education, experience, etc. You can find out more about it here and you can do the point test online. I did it once for fun to see if I'd qualify to immigrate to my own country, I squeeked by with two points to spare! If I recall correctly you need more than 83 points to get in.
posted by furtive at 5:53 AM on December 13, 2005

Speaking as a USian, I ask (sincerely, not as a joke) what makes you think the US is any less fucked?

And do recall that having skills helps, but the immigration process to become a US citizen isn't as easy as it used to be. If you're dead set on moving, why not try looking for a job and acquiring a work visa first, prior to renouncing your current citizenship? Would give you a chance to see if things are really any better here or not.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:10 AM on December 13, 2005

what makes you think the US is any less fucked?

PLENTY. As bad as it is here, it's generally worse there. It's like they realized 1984 was 20 years ago and they're trying to catch up.
posted by knave at 6:19 AM on December 13, 2005

This was kind of answered here. Might help a bit.

Maybe if you let us know in what sense you think the UK is, er, "f***ed" we can help you figure out whether Canada or US would be a better fit? And how about Aus?
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:22 AM on December 13, 2005

If I recall correctly you need more than 83 points to get in.

Actually, the pass mark is 67 (noted on this page linked from your link). I don't think it's been as high as 83 for quite some time, but I recall it WAS dropped from 72 (or so) in the not-so-distant past. :)
posted by antifuse at 6:26 AM on December 13, 2005

I'm English and was desperate to leave, because that country was, in my opinion, f**ked. I came to New York on November 8 2000, the auspicious date of G.W. Bush's "election" so I think I've been here long enough to know what I'm talking about, and this country is even more f**ked. But in different ways, so it depends what kind of f**ked you're fleeing from. Explain what you don't like, and maybe others can tell you which countries won't be an improvement. Heh, thanks furtive - I can get into Canada even without a prearranged job! Maybe there next.

The easiest process is this:
1) find job or training programme or get into graduate school.
2) they'll get you a temporary visa.
3) marry an American or become good enough at our job to deserve a green card.

TV sounds like a difficult field to do this in; I'm led to believe that it's pretty competitive, but if you have good experience that'll qualify you for a specialist job then maybe the whole thing will be ridiculously easy. I'm a scientist, so it's very easy for me. I know a number of English tree surgeons ('arborists' in American) who came over on training programs and were in managerial positions within a couple of years.

You can, of course, emigrate to any country in the EU. Friends of mine have had little trouble picking up English-speaking jobs in Germany whilst learning the lingo.
posted by nowonmai at 6:29 AM on December 13, 2005

D'oh. At your job. I wasn't offering you employment. Sorry.
posted by nowonmai at 6:31 AM on December 13, 2005

I've been in the US since 96 and can assure you that things are just as f*ed up here as they are there. The grass is always greener.
posted by zeoslap at 6:34 AM on December 13, 2005

The grass is absolutely greener on the other side - check out the British Expats boards and you'll find plenty of Englishmen lamenting having moved (and plenty glad to have done it, mind you). You have to be moving to something rather than away from something to make the best of being an expat, in my (living in country number four) opinion.
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:44 AM on December 13, 2005

Anecodatalfilter: My parents recently moved back to England after 20 years abroad (in Canada) and now they can't wait to get out of England. Apparently the mindset of the country will wear one down until all hope is gone. The say that life just feels different in the UK, and not in a good way. So come to Canada, land of the brave, home of the hockey, bastion of freedom, socialism, and USA-envy.
posted by blue_beetle at 6:52 AM on December 13, 2005

why not try looking for a job and acquiring a work visa first, prior to renouncing your current citizenship?

Canadian immigration does not require any renunciation of current citizenship, as near as I can tell. There's an oath of loyalty or similar, but it doesn't have any renunciatory elements.

US immigration has an oath with renunciatory elements. That is, as you take US citizenship, the US will want to hear you say "Old country, phooey! USA, I choose you!" ---BUT--- the US does not require any formal or effective renunciation of prior citizenship. Since the UK does not view the renunciatory parts of the US oath as mattering worth a heap of fetid dingo's kidneys, you remain a UK citizen after taking US citizenship unless you go through the bother of actually renouncing your UK citizenship to the UK.

If that makes any sense at all.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:53 AM on December 13, 2005

Canadian immigration does not require any renunciation of current citizenship, as near as I can tell. There's an oath of loyalty or similar, but it doesn't have any renunciatory elements.

US immigration has an oath with renunciatory elements. That is, as you take US citizenship, the US will want to hear you say "Old country, phooey! USA, I choose you!"

Neither place will require any sort of oath for immigration. What you're talking about is citizenship, which is an entirely separate issue. You can immigrate and live your whole life in a place without any need to become a citizen of that place ever. Many people do. This talk of oaths and citizenship is irrelevant to the immigration question.
posted by duck at 7:11 AM on December 13, 2005

1. You'll need a visa for the US.
2. If you use English like that all the time, you're a bum
3. This country's not fucked. Certainly not as much as the states.
3b. Unless you have some special meaning of f***ed (like "the use these weird ' marks in some words")
4. British ads are better. Which do you work in -- advertising or TV?
5. There's more to the country than London.
posted by bonaldi at 7:29 AM on December 13, 2005

3b. "they" not "the"
posted by bonaldi at 7:31 AM on December 13, 2005

Neither place will require any sort of oath for immigration.

Sure, but taking citizenship is the only way to make sure that you can actually stay even if policy swings in anti-immigrant directions, and it gets the immigration people off your back forever. If you're a UK citizen living in the US or Canada, there's very little good objective reason not to take citizenship.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:40 AM on December 13, 2005

Here is information about becoming a US citizen.

Here is information about becoming a Lawful Permanent Resident.

The oath to become a naturalized USC is:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:40 AM on December 13, 2005

rou_xenophobe: you can get by pretty well with just being a permanent resident in Canada, if you don't want to bother with the hassle of citizenship (and you have to be in the country for 5 or 6 years before you can apply any way, I think). However, lots of people DO eventually get around to that whole citizenship thing, simply because they embrace their new home.

Note: if you're under 35, you can use Bunac to get a foot in the door to Canada without having to wait the (up to) 2 years to get permanent residency. I used a similar program to get over here to Ireland.
posted by antifuse at 7:51 AM on December 13, 2005

What about the Netherlands? They seem like the anti-facist, liberal utopia everyone wants to live in, and as an EU citizen you should be able to just go there and live, right?

Anyway, I can understand why someone might feel that the UK is fucked in ways the US Isn't, even with GW at the helm. There are lots of nice places and the government won't mess with you too much as long as you're not a drug user or have the same name as a suspected 'terrist'.
posted by delmoi at 8:03 AM on December 13, 2005

What about the Netherlands? They seem like the anti-facist, liberal utopia everyone wants to live in
I think that used to be true, but that was before Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh were murdered. With our current government, I do not think The Netherlands is an improvement over the UK.
posted by davar at 8:18 AM on December 13, 2005

nowonmai, can I get more info from you (maybe via e-mail about how your friends found english-speaking jobs in Germany?
posted by TunnelArmr at 9:08 AM on December 13, 2005

I think that used to be true, but that was before Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh were murdered.

Couple of murders don't change nothin'. I've lived a bunch of places, but the Netherlands was the only place I felt people had their heads screwed on properly.
posted by BorgLove at 9:23 AM on December 13, 2005

antifuse, it's three years. I know, I just took my Canadian citizenship test yesterday.
posted by scruss at 9:24 AM on December 13, 2005

To get to American as an English guy all you need to do is prove that 300m Americans can't do your job. Not too easy...
posted by A189Nut at 9:29 AM on December 13, 2005

TunnelArmr: I don't have a great lot of info, so I can put it here as it's not really that much of a derail.
Couple 1: She is a PhD. scientist, and got a programming job at a company where everybody else was highly educated and/or an immigrant, so everybody could speak English. Her boyfriend moved over with her and started taking German lessons; he found a job advertised in a local paper to be "the English speaking guy" at a customer hotline for a car manufacturer. He has now been promoted to a job more in accordance with his ability, and six years later they both speak German well and are happy.
Couple 2: Now I come to think of it, she is a nurse in the military so of course it was an English speaking job, but there was some problem with overstaffing and it didn't last long. Not such a success story after all.
Being single, I am a bit scared of moving to a country where I have poor language skills; as a scientist I can get by in English professionally but I worry how I'd do socially.
I'll add my email address to my profile, but I don't think I have any more to say.
posted by nowonmai at 10:15 AM on December 13, 2005

in my experience, changing country doesn't change the things you expect it to, but does change things you never thought to doubt. so i wouldn't recommend changing country as a solution to anything as vague as "This county is f***ed".
posted by andrew cooke at 10:57 AM on December 13, 2005

Information on coming to Saskatchewan, Canada under the Immigrant Nominee Program here.
posted by evilcolonel at 11:06 AM on December 13, 2005

I know an Englishman who recently spent quite a bit of time in this country (he was dating a friend of mine) but couldn't immigrate permanently. If he'd married my friend, of course, he'd have been in like flynn. But since that wasn't going to happen, his other option was to find a job here. But not just any job. He had to be able to show that the employer had tried to fill the job with an American and failed; that, basically, they had no choice but to import him from the UK. in order to fill the position. So if he'd had some really unique, rare skill, he probably could have found something. But he was an engineer.

My friend still contends that, had he been serious about the search or about the effort to immigrate (or is that emigrate?) in general, he'd have found a way. It's true that the guy is rather lackadaisical in most things, so maybe she's right. But I really don't know.

Oh, and while he was here temporarily, the rule was that he could only stay for a certain amount of time ( a few weeks, usually, I think), but he could return as quickly and as frequently as he wished. So if he'd had the cash to take a couple of transatlantic flights each month, jumping back and forth twixt the UK and here, he'd have been fine. (And yes, that's one of the silliest regulations I've ever heard).
posted by Clay201 at 12:29 PM on December 13, 2005

As a Brit who moved to the USA, I have to ask: What do you expect to be so different?

Sure, there are some cultural, legal and historical differences that get talked up all the time, and why not? But in everyday getting on with life I think there are many more similarities than differences. People generally want the same things. Both nations have similar job opportunities if you're reasonably educated or skilled. Both have their fair share of complete assholes and wonderful people. After taxes and expenses, both contries offer a fairly comparable standard of living to someone in an ok job (the lack of a civilized system of universal medical care in the US is probably the biggest difference that can affect everyday life, but that's probably a debate for somewhere else).

What are you looking for?
posted by normy at 2:01 PM on December 13, 2005

Lot of really crap answers from people to be honest. If i wanted a discussion on politics etc i would go find another message board.
posted by indio1919 at 3:02 AM on December 14, 2005

Lot of really crap answers from people to be honest.

To suit your crap question.

Anyway, for the US, you need either a job that's visa-worthy, a family member to sponsor you, or lots of money. For the fine print, you can spend some of your good job money on an immigration lawyer.
posted by holgate at 5:42 AM on December 14, 2005

Lot of really crap answers from people to be honest.

I specifically told you how you can get to Canada on a 1 year work visa. Someone else sent you a link to the Canadian government page on how to apply for permanent residency. Considering you didn't even offer us the kind of things you were looking for in a destination country ("less fucked up than the UK" is hardly descriptive) what were you expecting, exactly?
posted by antifuse at 7:14 AM on December 14, 2005

MeTa
posted by bonaldi at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2005

Without wishing to be flippant, why not move to Scotland? The cost of living here is lower, it feels like a different country, and I know for certain that there's plenty of work in the TV field.

After ten years here, there's no way I'd move back to England.
posted by jack_mo at 8:53 AM on December 14, 2005

i lived in scotland. i'm english. the way i was treated by some scots people seriously upset me. i can sympathise with their history - i actually chose scotland because i wanted to live in a more socialist environment (this was during the conservative period, but post-thatcher) - but i was amazed at the way some people treated me just for being english.

as one (scottish) friend noted, it's the only country she's every lived in where it's completely normal for people to dismiss others in casual, polite, "educated middle-class" conversation just because of where they were born (i have to admit, however, that i have since seen similar treatment in, for example, the way chileans refer to people with other skin colours, but they at least have the excuse that they live in an almost homogenous society from that pov).

so personally i would not suggest scotland for an english person.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:11 AM on December 14, 2005

Move to Scotland??

I'd rather move to Kabul or Baghdad. Derrrrrrrrrr.....
posted by indio1919 at 1:32 AM on December 15, 2005

Good luck indio. I think you need it.
posted by DrtyBlvd at 4:09 AM on December 15, 2005

Oh... I see you actually had a typo in your question, let me fix it:

I am a complete ass, and want to find the country where I don't get beat up every day for my anti-social behaviour. Anyone have any suggestions?

Sorry, no.
posted by antifuse at 5:14 AM on December 15, 2005