How bad is it to buy a car with catalytic converter issues? Please help.
August 3, 2020 3:41 PM Subscribe
We're thinking of buying a car with catalytic converter issues (check engine light). A product called "seafoam" was used and now the check engine light is only sometimes/rarely on. Is this a car that we should buy or pass on?
Our friend M has offered to sell us an old and high-mileage vehicle for below market value that has some issues (including needed replacement of the engine mount, sway bar links, etc.). M is getting rid of the vehicle because she is buying the same car but a much newer model. She has also spent a lot on maintenance of this vehicle over the last few years and wants a newer model that is less expensive to maintain. From what I can tell, we would be getting the vehicle about $700-800 below the Kelley Blue Book value. From looking at the maintenance records and her mechanic's recommendations, the car needs repairs that total about $700 not including one issue - the issue with the catalytic converters. When M purchased this vehicle used 4 years ago, the "check engine" light was on, and someone (the mechanic?) determined that the catalytic converters were bad. Her mechanic estimated a cost of $1700 to replace these. Because of the cost, M did not do this replacement: rather, a product called "seafoam" was used instead (possibly repeatedly?). M reports that this has largely stopped the "check engine" light from being on - it is now on sometimes/rarely. It seems unclear to me from online research the extent to which this fixed the problem or disguised it (some people online raved about seafoam, some said it was snake oil).
From what I can determine, this vehicle would be a good deal, even with its other problems, at the price we are being offered it - except for the catalytic converter issue, which I'm finding hard to assess the magnitude of. Otherwise, I'm very inclined to buy it. The particulars of the vehicle make it a good fit for our needs right now. And being able to get it at the Kelley Blue Book value with known problems already fixed is attractive. However this catalytic converter issue makes me unsure, because if we had to pay an additional $1700 in repair costs, the vehicle would quickly go to being a very bad deal. The fact that this issue was present four years ago and maybe hasn't been fixed is a bit scary. And I can't figure out whether the fact that M has spent a lot on maintenance over the last few years indicates that everything has already been done and the costs will be low to maintain it, or whether that means that the car will be expensive for us to maintain. Help? Is the catalytic converter thing a big issue, and how do I figure out what to do here?
Our friend M has offered to sell us an old and high-mileage vehicle for below market value that has some issues (including needed replacement of the engine mount, sway bar links, etc.). M is getting rid of the vehicle because she is buying the same car but a much newer model. She has also spent a lot on maintenance of this vehicle over the last few years and wants a newer model that is less expensive to maintain. From what I can tell, we would be getting the vehicle about $700-800 below the Kelley Blue Book value. From looking at the maintenance records and her mechanic's recommendations, the car needs repairs that total about $700 not including one issue - the issue with the catalytic converters. When M purchased this vehicle used 4 years ago, the "check engine" light was on, and someone (the mechanic?) determined that the catalytic converters were bad. Her mechanic estimated a cost of $1700 to replace these. Because of the cost, M did not do this replacement: rather, a product called "seafoam" was used instead (possibly repeatedly?). M reports that this has largely stopped the "check engine" light from being on - it is now on sometimes/rarely. It seems unclear to me from online research the extent to which this fixed the problem or disguised it (some people online raved about seafoam, some said it was snake oil).
From what I can determine, this vehicle would be a good deal, even with its other problems, at the price we are being offered it - except for the catalytic converter issue, which I'm finding hard to assess the magnitude of. Otherwise, I'm very inclined to buy it. The particulars of the vehicle make it a good fit for our needs right now. And being able to get it at the Kelley Blue Book value with known problems already fixed is attractive. However this catalytic converter issue makes me unsure, because if we had to pay an additional $1700 in repair costs, the vehicle would quickly go to being a very bad deal. The fact that this issue was present four years ago and maybe hasn't been fixed is a bit scary. And I can't figure out whether the fact that M has spent a lot on maintenance over the last few years indicates that everything has already been done and the costs will be low to maintain it, or whether that means that the car will be expensive for us to maintain. Help? Is the catalytic converter thing a big issue, and how do I figure out what to do here?
No emissions checks necessary in our area, so that's not a concern. But I spoke with my mechanic earlier today, who said that it's not just about emissions/fuel efficiency - that if a catalytic converter is bad, eventually it will stop the car from running and seemed to think it's a serious issue. Unfortunately I don't know much about cars.
posted by ClaireBear at 3:53 PM on August 3, 2020
posted by ClaireBear at 3:53 PM on August 3, 2020
Old...high-mileage...needs repairs...seems like a disaster in waiting. Will it still seem like a good deal if you have to put thousands of dollars into this car? I’d advise putting your money towards a more reliable ride.
posted by gnutron at 4:10 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by gnutron at 4:10 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Whats is the make/model/year of the vehicle? If its a Honda or Toyota you may be OK, if it's a VW run like hell.
Plan to fix it. Cat's don't last forever, they are ultimately a wear part. A bad cat won't stop yr car from running unless it is clogged up, which may indeed be the case here. In any case, having the CEL on all the time from a bad cat is not a great practice because it will prevent you from seeing other, more important error codes, (since you will just be blanking out the CEL in your mind). On a older car, you really need all the diagnostic info you can get.
If the cat is really bad then the seafoam didn't do shit. It may be the case that an O2 sensor was gunked up and maybe the seafoam knocked off some carbon deposits. O2 sensors and cats often throw the same error codes when they get messed up.
posted by dudemanlives at 4:11 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
Plan to fix it. Cat's don't last forever, they are ultimately a wear part. A bad cat won't stop yr car from running unless it is clogged up, which may indeed be the case here. In any case, having the CEL on all the time from a bad cat is not a great practice because it will prevent you from seeing other, more important error codes, (since you will just be blanking out the CEL in your mind). On a older car, you really need all the diagnostic info you can get.
If the cat is really bad then the seafoam didn't do shit. It may be the case that an O2 sensor was gunked up and maybe the seafoam knocked off some carbon deposits. O2 sensors and cats often throw the same error codes when they get messed up.
posted by dudemanlives at 4:11 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
On one hand, if Seafoam cleared it up, I wouldn't imagine the problem was too bad. And depending on the car and the cause, dead cats may not be a big deal. On the other, if they're plugging up that can stop the car. On some engines they'll fall apart and bits can get sucked back into the engine and damage it badly (I've heard). And they're expensive parts with unpleasant labor to replace.
If it's $1000, or $2000 then a well maintained devil you know probably makes sense. But if the price is much higher I don't know if I'd want any part of that.
posted by wotsac at 4:11 PM on August 3, 2020
If it's $1000, or $2000 then a well maintained devil you know probably makes sense. But if the price is much higher I don't know if I'd want any part of that.
posted by wotsac at 4:11 PM on August 3, 2020
The right thing to tell you is to get a quote for a replacement catalytic converter and add it to the price of the car before you make a decision.
Your mechanic is correct that a defective (plugged) catalytic converter will keep the car from running. There’s other ways around this, but of course then your car would be polluting more than it should (and the CEL will definitely be on.) Your mechanic isn’t allowed to discuss, and I will only say that I would recommend against this approach as well in the interest of the community around you.
posted by doomsey at 4:13 PM on August 3, 2020
Your mechanic is correct that a defective (plugged) catalytic converter will keep the car from running. There’s other ways around this, but of course then your car would be polluting more than it should (and the CEL will definitely be on.) Your mechanic isn’t allowed to discuss, and I will only say that I would recommend against this approach as well in the interest of the community around you.
posted by doomsey at 4:13 PM on August 3, 2020
I use seafoam as a fuel line cleaner and actually your CEL behavior fits an engine problem that's fixed by the seafoam, not the opposite.
I'd question the diagnosis of the CEL to the CC. There are other symptoms of a failed catalytic convertor. See what the OBD codes say.
posted by achrise at 4:14 PM on August 3, 2020
I'd question the diagnosis of the CEL to the CC. There are other symptoms of a failed catalytic convertor. See what the OBD codes say.
posted by achrise at 4:14 PM on August 3, 2020
Your mechanic is not necessarily right... most cases of "catalytic converter" issues are when the car throws a low catalyst efficiency code, which is strictly an emissions issue. Cars can and do run fine like this for years. (I owned one!) There are a couple of exceptions to this- a bad converter can cause harm is if it melts internally (this is usually a symptom of another major engine issue like a misfire and you would notice the car running poorly) and plugs up. In some very unusual cases a pre-converter can disintegrate and wind up sending fragments back in to the engine, but this is limited to specific cars, like certain years of the V6 version of the Mazda 6, some turbo cars, etc.
+1It would be helpful if you could let us know what kind of car you're talking about. Also, I'm not so sure you're getting as good a deal on this car as you think you are. Book value minus the cost of needed repairs is not a deal at all. You're the one who has to deal with getting the car fixed and assumes all the risk of the repairs going right or wrong. There should be a big added discount to account for the risk and hassle of getting the car up to shape. "While we were in there we found X is bad too" "The rusted bolts in the X snapped when we tried to remove them and we had to..." etc.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:17 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
+1It would be helpful if you could let us know what kind of car you're talking about. Also, I'm not so sure you're getting as good a deal on this car as you think you are. Book value minus the cost of needed repairs is not a deal at all. You're the one who has to deal with getting the car fixed and assumes all the risk of the repairs going right or wrong. There should be a big added discount to account for the risk and hassle of getting the car up to shape. "While we were in there we found X is bad too" "The rusted bolts in the X snapped when we tried to remove them and we had to..." etc.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:17 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
If are hearing about the product of Seafoam for the first time and you consider $1.7k in parts let alone repairs to be a deal breaker, you should run far away.
posted by sideshow at 4:18 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by sideshow at 4:18 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I also suggest running away from this one, BUT...
If you're willing to do a little homework, take the car to an Autozone (or other chain auto parts store). They will usually plug into the OBDII port for free and read the CEL codes. Don't ask them to reset it (though most usually won't). BUT, they'll give you a printout of WHY the CEL is on, and you'll be able to make a more-educated decision. It might be something as simple and easy as plugs (~$400), an O2 sensor (~$300), Catalytic Converter (~$1,400-$1,700), emissions valve (~$150), Mass Airflow Sensor (~$350), or even an injector (~$450). Some of this stuff is really easy to do yourself, potentially saving quite a bit of money. Other stuff isn't (like the catalytic converter). If it throws a code for a bad cat, yeah, it's not worth it in the long run, and potentially dangerous. I had a friend with an older Jeep Cherokee that had a bad cat, and it got scary glowing hot.
Back to the codes. We just bought a 15 year-old Audi TT with 40k miles on it. We got a almost "too good to be true" deal on it, because some guy who didn't know JACK about cars was freaked out that the CEL warning was on. I asked to take it on a test drive, pulled into Autozone, and they read the code for me. It was a MAF sensor. I ended up getting a really sweet candy apple red German Roadster for $5k under KBB because the dude was too lazy to just figure out what was wrong.
posted by Master Gunner at 4:33 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
If you're willing to do a little homework, take the car to an Autozone (or other chain auto parts store). They will usually plug into the OBDII port for free and read the CEL codes. Don't ask them to reset it (though most usually won't). BUT, they'll give you a printout of WHY the CEL is on, and you'll be able to make a more-educated decision. It might be something as simple and easy as plugs (~$400), an O2 sensor (~$300), Catalytic Converter (~$1,400-$1,700), emissions valve (~$150), Mass Airflow Sensor (~$350), or even an injector (~$450). Some of this stuff is really easy to do yourself, potentially saving quite a bit of money. Other stuff isn't (like the catalytic converter). If it throws a code for a bad cat, yeah, it's not worth it in the long run, and potentially dangerous. I had a friend with an older Jeep Cherokee that had a bad cat, and it got scary glowing hot.
Back to the codes. We just bought a 15 year-old Audi TT with 40k miles on it. We got a almost "too good to be true" deal on it, because some guy who didn't know JACK about cars was freaked out that the CEL warning was on. I asked to take it on a test drive, pulled into Autozone, and they read the code for me. It was a MAF sensor. I ended up getting a really sweet candy apple red German Roadster for $5k under KBB because the dude was too lazy to just figure out what was wrong.
posted by Master Gunner at 4:33 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I would not buy a car with cat problems, but I am in a state that checks omissions. If I were in a state that did not check as a condition of inspection, I would buy the car and put a straight pipe in it and get rid of the cat converter all together.
My guess is that this car will only be a headache for you. A money pit.
posted by AugustWest at 4:40 PM on August 3, 2020
My guess is that this car will only be a headache for you. A money pit.
posted by AugustWest at 4:40 PM on August 3, 2020
She has also spent a lot on maintenance of this vehicle over the last few years and wants a newer model that is less expensive to maintain
...
And I can't figure out whether the fact that M has spent a lot on maintenance over the last few years indicates that everything has already been done and the costs will be low to maintain it, or whether that means that the car will be expensive for us to maintain..
Why is she getting rid of this car if the issues are already fixed, especially after she has spent so much money fixing it? If if were my car, if everything was fixed and the car was running well then I would be inclined to keep it just to recoup my costs.
I would not buy this car - instead, I would look for a newer model of the car, if the particular model fits your car needs well.
posted by needled at 5:01 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
...
And I can't figure out whether the fact that M has spent a lot on maintenance over the last few years indicates that everything has already been done and the costs will be low to maintain it, or whether that means that the car will be expensive for us to maintain..
Why is she getting rid of this car if the issues are already fixed, especially after she has spent so much money fixing it? If if were my car, if everything was fixed and the car was running well then I would be inclined to keep it just to recoup my costs.
I would not buy this car - instead, I would look for a newer model of the car, if the particular model fits your car needs well.
posted by needled at 5:01 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
In answer to questions: this is a mid-2000s Honda Odyssey, $250,000 miles, for $2000. Rear brakes have just been replaced.
posted by ClaireBear at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2020
posted by ClaireBear at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2020
Mid 2000s Honda Odyssey? 250,000 miles? I'd imagine it's at least on its second transmission. No.
posted by wotsac at 5:29 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by wotsac at 5:29 PM on August 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
This might help you. About halfway down, the OBDII codes, what they mean, and how to troubleshoot.
Apparently, on a Honda, if the CEL is flashing, it's a cat issue, if it isn't, it's something else.
https://www.youcanic.com/guide/honda-check-engine-light
posted by Master Gunner at 5:36 PM on August 3, 2020
Apparently, on a Honda, if the CEL is flashing, it's a cat issue, if it isn't, it's something else.
https://www.youcanic.com/guide/honda-check-engine-light
posted by Master Gunner at 5:36 PM on August 3, 2020
Lots of people have chimed in with specific advice re: the catalytic converter. I second the suggestion that it can be super handy to take a car to Autozone and have them give you a free reading of the specific OBD codes. You can often Google the codes and get helpful tips on repair or find some pretty good step-by-step videos, too, to save money.
I want to make another suggestion or observation, which is that I never put myself in a situation where I am considering buying one specific car. If I decided that I wanted a mid-2000s Honda Odyssey, I would set a budget and then use Cars.com and SearchTempest to look for all of the used examples I could find for a specific model year within a certain geographic range. I want to see what all of the possible ones are on offer, what I can buy at certain price levels vis-a-vis mileage and condition. I've used that process in car buying multiple times, and have bought cars ranging from $1,500 to $10,000 using that method. I am a price sensitive, frugal car buyer, but I also want something that will last and be reliable.
I want to second another poster who mentioned your community. A catalytic converter should function correctly on a car. When it doesn't function correctly, it means your car is making more of a contribution to climate change than if the catalytic converter was working - the converter catalyzes particles that otherwise would pollute the atmosphere. Yes, one car is a nearly infinitesimally tiny drop, but too many people hand wave the value of emissions equipment away.
I was told never to sell a car to friends or family, and I think not buying from friends or family is a decent corollary. The point is that you never know what will happen once you buy a car, and you'd hate to have that interfere with your relationship. Your friend may not know that the AC is about to go out on the Honda, but then maybe it does and you could feel frustrated with them, for instance.
I'd just try to look for something similar somewhere else. Good luck!
posted by Slothrop at 5:50 PM on August 3, 2020 [6 favorites]
I want to make another suggestion or observation, which is that I never put myself in a situation where I am considering buying one specific car. If I decided that I wanted a mid-2000s Honda Odyssey, I would set a budget and then use Cars.com and SearchTempest to look for all of the used examples I could find for a specific model year within a certain geographic range. I want to see what all of the possible ones are on offer, what I can buy at certain price levels vis-a-vis mileage and condition. I've used that process in car buying multiple times, and have bought cars ranging from $1,500 to $10,000 using that method. I am a price sensitive, frugal car buyer, but I also want something that will last and be reliable.
I want to second another poster who mentioned your community. A catalytic converter should function correctly on a car. When it doesn't function correctly, it means your car is making more of a contribution to climate change than if the catalytic converter was working - the converter catalyzes particles that otherwise would pollute the atmosphere. Yes, one car is a nearly infinitesimally tiny drop, but too many people hand wave the value of emissions equipment away.
I was told never to sell a car to friends or family, and I think not buying from friends or family is a decent corollary. The point is that you never know what will happen once you buy a car, and you'd hate to have that interfere with your relationship. Your friend may not know that the AC is about to go out on the Honda, but then maybe it does and you could feel frustrated with them, for instance.
I'd just try to look for something similar somewhere else. Good luck!
posted by Slothrop at 5:50 PM on August 3, 2020 [6 favorites]
Back to the codes. We just bought a 15 year-old Audi TT with 40k miles on it. We got a almost "too good to be true" deal on it, because some guy who didn't know JACK about cars was freaked out that the CEL warning was on.
Not to be the (potential) bringer of bad news, but some of the Audi engines that year (not sure about what's in TT, which is why I say "potential") had plastic timing chain tensioners that were practically guaranteed to fail before 130k miles. Getting to the chain in the TT is easier than the S4, but changing the tensioners in that car can easily be a $12k service. Which is why an S4 without the service, a 350HP luxury German rocket, is practically free on the used market.
Soooo, I wouldn't be so smug with the "too lazy" part. In fact, decent chance he put in the extra effort to find someone who might not know about the plastic chain tensioners.
Anyway, to reemphasize my earlier point: If you aren't the kind of person who buys a car half expecting the spend the entire purchase price on maintenance in first couple years, I'd steer clear of anything that's already getting SeaFoam.
For example: I'm restoring a 1970 Porsche 914 with a motor of a 3.0L out of a '79 911SC. I've already had to track down a half dozen dudes/companies that are each the only people in the entire US who can rebuild certain parts. I'd feel like I'd dodged a bullet if the next decent sized problem I run into only costs $1.7k to fix. And after I'm done, I could probably sell the car for a third of the time and money I put into it. But, it's a hobby and getting the Fuel Distributor and Warm Up Regulator (the Bosch CIS components that would be the most impacted by anything that required the previous owner to put SeaFoam into the fuel system) is part of the fun, and that fun the reason I didn't just buy a new Porsche 718 S for what I'm going to put into this thing.
On preview: Yeah, no way in hell you want a $2000 Odyssey. If you had $2k and wanted to gamble that you could get $2k worth of driving out of it before you had it hauled away, then fine. But if you want a decent car, that's not the one.
posted by sideshow at 5:51 PM on August 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not to be the (potential) bringer of bad news, but some of the Audi engines that year (not sure about what's in TT, which is why I say "potential") had plastic timing chain tensioners that were practically guaranteed to fail before 130k miles. Getting to the chain in the TT is easier than the S4, but changing the tensioners in that car can easily be a $12k service. Which is why an S4 without the service, a 350HP luxury German rocket, is practically free on the used market.
Soooo, I wouldn't be so smug with the "too lazy" part. In fact, decent chance he put in the extra effort to find someone who might not know about the plastic chain tensioners.
Anyway, to reemphasize my earlier point: If you aren't the kind of person who buys a car half expecting the spend the entire purchase price on maintenance in first couple years, I'd steer clear of anything that's already getting SeaFoam.
For example: I'm restoring a 1970 Porsche 914 with a motor of a 3.0L out of a '79 911SC. I've already had to track down a half dozen dudes/companies that are each the only people in the entire US who can rebuild certain parts. I'd feel like I'd dodged a bullet if the next decent sized problem I run into only costs $1.7k to fix. And after I'm done, I could probably sell the car for a third of the time and money I put into it. But, it's a hobby and getting the Fuel Distributor and Warm Up Regulator (the Bosch CIS components that would be the most impacted by anything that required the previous owner to put SeaFoam into the fuel system) is part of the fun, and that fun the reason I didn't just buy a new Porsche 718 S for what I'm going to put into this thing.
On preview: Yeah, no way in hell you want a $2000 Odyssey. If you had $2k and wanted to gamble that you could get $2k worth of driving out of it before you had it hauled away, then fine. But if you want a decent car, that's not the one.
posted by sideshow at 5:51 PM on August 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
From what I can tell, we would be getting the vehicle about $700-800 below the Kelley Blue Book value. From looking at the maintenance records and her mechanic's recommendations, the car needs repairs that total about $700 not including one issue - the issue with the catalytic converters.
A good deal would be getting the vehicle for market value minus the cost of the known repairs minus a factor for "uh oh, something else turns out to be wrong also." This seems like someone offloading an expensive vehicle that is going to continue to be expensive.
That said, if your mechanic thinks this is a good deal, and you trust the mechanic, then jump on this and ignore what people here are saying.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:09 PM on August 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
A good deal would be getting the vehicle for market value minus the cost of the known repairs minus a factor for "uh oh, something else turns out to be wrong also." This seems like someone offloading an expensive vehicle that is going to continue to be expensive.
That said, if your mechanic thinks this is a good deal, and you trust the mechanic, then jump on this and ignore what people here are saying.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:09 PM on August 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not to be the (potential) bringer of bad news...
On the TT: I was already tracking the timing chain issue. Thankfully, my model year wasn't affected, but the same year A4 and A6 are notorious for it. In any event, we took it to our local German Car enthusiast/car care center and she checked out good to go. We bought it for my kid's first car, so we only planned on him getting a couple of years out of it before he goes off to college.
In answer to questions: this is a mid-2000s Honda Odyssey, $250,000 miles, for $2000. Rear brakes have just been replaced.
Yeah, I'd hard pass. I know Hondas are known for being decent high mileage vehicles, but a quarter of a million miles is serious yikes territory. Even at $2k.
posted by Master Gunner at 6:40 PM on August 3, 2020
On the TT: I was already tracking the timing chain issue. Thankfully, my model year wasn't affected, but the same year A4 and A6 are notorious for it. In any event, we took it to our local German Car enthusiast/car care center and she checked out good to go. We bought it for my kid's first car, so we only planned on him getting a couple of years out of it before he goes off to college.
In answer to questions: this is a mid-2000s Honda Odyssey, $250,000 miles, for $2000. Rear brakes have just been replaced.
Yeah, I'd hard pass. I know Hondas are known for being decent high mileage vehicles, but a quarter of a million miles is serious yikes territory. Even at $2k.
posted by Master Gunner at 6:40 PM on August 3, 2020
For a car that worn, there is no relevant price guide. Kelly Blue Book is irrelevant. The only question is does it run long enough to be worth the beater car money before it needs an expensive repair. A beater car is a cheap as dirt car with problems that still gets you to work. As soon as it can’t proceed without a major repair, you toss it and buy the next one. If you can limp it along for a year, you got a great deal for $1000-$2000. If not, you gambled and lost. There is no point at all to doing expensive repairs on a car that is that beat to shit and isn’t special enough to restore. The alternative is do the repairs yourself.
posted by spitbull at 7:04 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 7:04 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
I feel like this deal is only +ev if you get it for around 500 bucks and drive it until it fails the first time, hopefully not within the first 5000 miles or so. Even then this assumes that you can call the local scrapper to come get it and pay you maybe $100 for the carcass. Otherwise it is a losing bet with a side bet of lose. This is also assuming no safety inspection required to transfer ownership in your country.
posted by some loser at 8:02 PM on August 3, 2020
posted by some loser at 8:02 PM on August 3, 2020
I’m just going to add that unless you have this kind of money to burn, it may not be good for your friendship to buy this car.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:24 PM on August 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 8:24 PM on August 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
No opinion on the car itself. But, cars can run without catalytic converters altogether if there’s no regulator mandating them (not saying this is a good idea, just that it works), so financially speaking seems like you might be able to write off the cost of repairs.
I also did have a car with a failed catalytic converter I had to replace and it cost more like $300, not $1700, in the Boston área about 7 years ago. 1997 Oldsmobile.
posted by exutima at 9:10 PM on August 3, 2020
I also did have a car with a failed catalytic converter I had to replace and it cost more like $300, not $1700, in the Boston área about 7 years ago. 1997 Oldsmobile.
posted by exutima at 9:10 PM on August 3, 2020
Things got more complicated very shortly thereafter exutima
posted by wotsac at 9:21 PM on August 3, 2020
posted by wotsac at 9:21 PM on August 3, 2020
Yeah, I'd hard pass. I know Hondas are known for being decent high mileage vehicles, but a quarter of a million miles is serious yikes territory. Even at $2k.
I have a 2012 Honda Odyssey and I'd be surprised if it makes it to 250k miles. I don't find mine to be particularly reliable or inexpensive to repair (which makes sense - they are BIG cars).
Hard pass for me too. If you can get it for $1000, or if it's going to be just a sometimes driver and not your daily driver, (ie: your family has another car), then maybe. But it's a gamble.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:07 AM on August 4, 2020
I have a 2012 Honda Odyssey and I'd be surprised if it makes it to 250k miles. I don't find mine to be particularly reliable or inexpensive to repair (which makes sense - they are BIG cars).
Hard pass for me too. If you can get it for $1000, or if it's going to be just a sometimes driver and not your daily driver, (ie: your family has another car), then maybe. But it's a gamble.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:07 AM on August 4, 2020
Hard pass unless you're getting it for a screaming deal ($700 under KBB is not a screaming deal). Generally, the value of a high mileage vehicle is value that the original owner enjoys, having made a large investment and now wringing out every last bit of value from their car. It's not a great value to buy a high mileage vehicle for an inflated price, only to be met with more and more repairs. There are exceptions to this, but they're generally things like you're also a person who can work on cars and do maintenance and repair yourself and that doesn't sound like you either.
posted by quince at 12:47 PM on August 5, 2020
posted by quince at 12:47 PM on August 5, 2020
I wouldn't take this car if it was given to me. And I love the Odyssey.
posted by wpgr at 1:40 PM on August 5, 2020
posted by wpgr at 1:40 PM on August 5, 2020
There are exceptions to this, but they're generally things like you're also a person who can work on cars and do maintenance and repair yourself and that doesn't sound like you either.
Having just crawled out from under the rusty underside of a 1998 pickup truck with ca. 200k on it, purchased last week from a fellow Mefite who was about to give it away for charity, let me double down on that part. You should not own an old very high mileage car *unless* you know enough about cars to decide what this or that concerning noise is — minor or major? — or whether this or that part really needs fixing or can be ignored, or how to get it going when it breaks down randomly. Or you have maintained it yourself for all those years and know its weaknesses.
Otherwise you’re going to need a mechanic you trust *implicitly*, which is hard to find, or you’ll be buying a boat for one who isn’t trustworthy. So much will be wrong, in need of repair, not inspection-passing spec, that you have to triage an old vehicle, learn to live with some of its issues, and yet know for sure when a problem is a safety issue or could become one.
If you don’t know cars, even an averagely honest shop will recommend things be done that quickly add up to more that the beater car is worth, and you won’t have a basis for triaging the recommendations to safety-critical fixes only.
I just had to find a short in a wiring harness that was keeping the camper brake light from coming on. I can’t pass inspection and it isn’t safe if it isn’t working. It took 45 minutes under the truck with a multimeter, swallowing rust flakes the whole time, to find it. A mechanic would have charged $150 at a minimum. I used duct tape. That is the reality of beater ownership at reasonable expense.
posted by spitbull at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Having just crawled out from under the rusty underside of a 1998 pickup truck with ca. 200k on it, purchased last week from a fellow Mefite who was about to give it away for charity, let me double down on that part. You should not own an old very high mileage car *unless* you know enough about cars to decide what this or that concerning noise is — minor or major? — or whether this or that part really needs fixing or can be ignored, or how to get it going when it breaks down randomly. Or you have maintained it yourself for all those years and know its weaknesses.
Otherwise you’re going to need a mechanic you trust *implicitly*, which is hard to find, or you’ll be buying a boat for one who isn’t trustworthy. So much will be wrong, in need of repair, not inspection-passing spec, that you have to triage an old vehicle, learn to live with some of its issues, and yet know for sure when a problem is a safety issue or could become one.
If you don’t know cars, even an averagely honest shop will recommend things be done that quickly add up to more that the beater car is worth, and you won’t have a basis for triaging the recommendations to safety-critical fixes only.
I just had to find a short in a wiring harness that was keeping the camper brake light from coming on. I can’t pass inspection and it isn’t safe if it isn’t working. It took 45 minutes under the truck with a multimeter, swallowing rust flakes the whole time, to find it. A mechanic would have charged $150 at a minimum. I used duct tape. That is the reality of beater ownership at reasonable expense.
posted by spitbull at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh and I will guarantee that if the cat is failing in an old Honda, you’re gonna need a whole new exhaust system put in, doubling the cost at least. EGR to muffler. And whatever fouled the cat could be an engine problem.
posted by spitbull at 12:10 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by spitbull at 12:10 PM on August 6, 2020
And hell no on the catalytic converter delete. That’s an environmental sin.
posted by spitbull at 6:01 AM on August 7, 2020
posted by spitbull at 6:01 AM on August 7, 2020
Just because I see it on Mefi all the time, there’s nothing accurate or meaningful about the “Kelly blue book” value, which is basically a marketing tool for car dealers. It’s almost always easy to get well below KBB and you shouldn’t feel too proud about doing it. Used car prices are basically “what is someone willing to pay for this?” and not “what is this worth?” It’s worth what it’s worth to you. That’s all.
With everyone else here, I wouldn’t touch a $2000 Odyssey with unknown problems, and I work on my own vehicles and don’t mind living dangerously (I currently drive a rusty 20 year old truck with 200,000 miles as a daily beater lol.)
As someone above said, if you don’t own your own OBDII scanner and don’t know what Seafoam is, you’re not the right person to be gambling on a $2000 Odyssey.
A working safe car costs $2500-5000 a year to own. One way or another you pay that much, whether as a new car payment on a rapidly depreciating asset that will never be worth close to what you paid for it after you drive it off the lot, plus higher insurance, or getting repairs made to an old car that is cheap to buy and insure.
Your choice.
posted by spitbull at 8:13 AM on September 25, 2020
With everyone else here, I wouldn’t touch a $2000 Odyssey with unknown problems, and I work on my own vehicles and don’t mind living dangerously (I currently drive a rusty 20 year old truck with 200,000 miles as a daily beater lol.)
As someone above said, if you don’t own your own OBDII scanner and don’t know what Seafoam is, you’re not the right person to be gambling on a $2000 Odyssey.
A working safe car costs $2500-5000 a year to own. One way or another you pay that much, whether as a new car payment on a rapidly depreciating asset that will never be worth close to what you paid for it after you drive it off the lot, plus higher insurance, or getting repairs made to an old car that is cheap to buy and insure.
Your choice.
posted by spitbull at 8:13 AM on September 25, 2020
By the way, there’s also nothing useful or meaningful about a “CarFax” report, which is also a marketing scam, and that’s why used car dealers are so eager to show you the carfax. It’s total BS. Many wrecks are never reported to the database. And of course a CarFax shows you nothing about the maintenance history, which is the single biggest variable in the future reliability of any vehicle.
posted by spitbull at 8:16 AM on September 25, 2020
posted by spitbull at 8:16 AM on September 25, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
It’s been a few years since I went car shopping, but when I did, KBB prices were significantly higher than Edmunds location-specific pricing for the same vehicles.
posted by jon1270 at 3:51 PM on August 3, 2020