How to help someone learn about relationships?

January 30, 2020 5:07 AM

Following a situation with a foreign man, I seek online resources to share with him about interacting with and respecting women...

I recently couchsurfed in a Middle Eastern country. My host was a single Indian man in his 30s. I have significant experience with Couchsurfing, traveling in general, and also specific experience traveling in the Middle East and India. Couchsurfing is about connection and time for me, so I use it sparingly as an introvert. I'm well aware of how I am perceived as a White Western woman, and do my best to respect local cultures through clothing, actions, and language.

My host was enamored with me. He greeted me with a poem, sat too closely on the couch, kissed my neck inappropriately as a goodbye, etc. Since, he has sent messages suggesting a romantic interest. Throughout, I made it clear I was not interested.

I do not want to spend my time teaching him what is okay and what is not okay. He appears to genuinely not know. I don't see him as a predator (I will reflect the situation objectively in my review on Couchsurfing). Everything I am finding online is based on seduction tactics for budding or new romantic relationships.

My question: What online resources (in English) may I suggest as a primer for non-romantic basic/beginner interactions with women? Topics could include personal space, text messaging, how to take cues, etc.

Thank you very much.

posted by maya to Human Relations (17 answers total)

He appears to genuinely not know.

I recommend starting by not assuming that.
posted by Miko at 7:04 AM on January 30, 2020 [56 favorites]

This person violated the Couchsurfing policies. Specifically,

"2. Don’t Look for a Date: Our members join Couchsurfing to create friendships. Don’t contact other members for dating, or use the site to find sexual partners. We take reports of unwanted sexual advances, both online and offline, seriously and they may be considered violations of our Conduct policy. This may include, but is not limited to, systematic attempts to contact other members about non-hosting/surfing related matters and sexually suggestive behavior. Respect others’ boundaries. If another Couchsurfer lets you know they are uncomfortable, respect their feelings and take a step back."

He agreed to this policy when he agreed to be a host, it spelled out exactly what he was not to do, and he did it anyway. You need to report him to remove him from the site to protect other women. It is not your job to teach him about relationships or help him be a better person or any number of things you see yourself as responsible for as a global citizen, a woman, or otherwise. You may not see him as a predator but his behavior was predatory and other women will and probably already have been victimized by him.

You are not responsible for teaching him how to interact with women or giving him educational materials meant to teach him how to interact with women. You are responsible for protecting other women, by reporting him and getting him off the site.
posted by juniperesque at 7:07 AM on January 30, 2020 [134 favorites]

Presumably he is able to understand non-romantic basic/beginner interactions with men?
posted by corvine at 7:27 AM on January 30, 2020 [18 favorites]

A guy who won't take no for an answer is not going to be interested in reading material. He doesn't want to know. You can't make him read what he doesn't want to.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:19 AM on January 30, 2020 [15 favorites]

Yeah, I appreciate the spirit of this question, but I have a hunch this guy does know it's poor behavior but he thinks he can get away with it with a foreigner. I would be surprised if he acted like this with a Middle Eastern woman from the country he is currently living in. I have lots of close male family members from the Middle East, living there, etc., and they would NEVER treat a woman this way because they aren't bad people. But I also went to college there for a while and often saw male Arab acquaintances try this garbage with Western women (and try it with me, as I was raised in the states) because they thought Western women were "easy," whatever the hell that means to them.

If anything, I'd report to couch-surfing to try to have him removed because he's certainly doing this to other women. (And that is also maybe why he's hosting.)

This guy is not clueless, he's dangerous.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 8:23 AM on January 30, 2020 [34 favorites]

He appears to genuinely not know. I don't see him as a predator

are you kidding, he knows more than you. he knows so much about what is "okay" to do to women that he can put his mouth on a woman's neck as she tries to leave his home and still get her to write him off as a non-predator who needs instruction.

if you want to teach him what is "okay" and "not okay," start by acting like this is not okay. further personal engagement and assistance is not compatible with this.

Further to this: to even think of this in terms of "cues" is deeply alarming. When a stranger is in your home as a substitute for a hotel, the only "cues" you watch for are ones that suggest she might be about to rob and murder you. If you are watching for receptivity and romantic interest in a business situation where your guest is physically vulnerable, you are already dangerous. It doesn't matter how good you are at spotting them. it matters that you don't act on them at this time and in this place, no matter what you see or think you see.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:57 AM on January 30, 2020 [32 favorites]

This is a systematic not individual issue, to broadly generalize western woman are seen as more promiscuous and sexually available than their southeast Asian counterparts thus leading many guys to misunderstand platonic situations. This doesn’t excuse this individual but don’t waste you time trying to fix it.
posted by genmonster at 9:23 AM on January 30, 2020 [6 favorites]

> My host was enamored with me. He greeted me with a poem

If he had a poem ready to go, he wasn't enamored with you at all. He probably greets every female guest -- and I do wonder if he has any male guests -- with this same poem. Report him.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:25 AM on January 30, 2020 [30 favorites]

I'm not familiar with Couchsurfing but I gather that you will never have to see or interact with this person again? I commend you for trying to make things better for the next person down the line but it's probably best to leave your review or whatever and move on. People like that usually aren't open to change.
posted by Justin Case at 9:59 AM on January 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

The very premise and framing of this question smacks of "white Westernized woman who wants to 'do good!' by instructing a brown man how to behave in social settings" and "look at what a nice white lady I am, I have compassion and I'm teaching morals to these uncivilized brown people!"

Whether you like it or care to admit it or not, that's how this question comes across. Period. It's patronizing and it's also ethnocentric.

Don't assume he does or doesn't know how to behave appropriately. You don't know that. Regardless of whether he does or doesn't know, he still chose to behave the way he did. It is up to this man, his culture, his family and/or friends to discuss and work toward making changes to how he perceives and behaves around other women and his friends. It is *not* your job. He did not ask you to make it your job, either. It also goes without saying that people don't change unless they decide on their own that they want to change; trying to push a new or different moral perspective on someone, who didn't ask for that, rarely goes well.

Having said that: what he did still made you uncomfortable and your feelings are absolutely valid. He also violated the terms of agreement on a site where you are both members and both agreed to those terms.

The way to deal with that is to (1) report his behavior to Couch Surfing; (2) Leave a review that signals to other people how he behaved toward you, without being accusatory or ethnocentric. For example, something roughly along the lines of "I personally found myself uncomfortable with this host's approach to social interaction, his choice to approach me with unsolicited physical touching and unsolicited expressions of affection. It was not for me, however I am not everyone and your mileage may vary."

The above allows you to make sure other people understand that this host has been known to engage in behavior that made you uncomfortable and may make other people uncomfortable. I would want to know this about him before I chose him as a host. You somehow feel obligated to "fix" this man's morals but are afraid to do the right thing and notify other people about what they may be walking into. Redirect your focus to where it can actually have an impact. Maybe having fewer visitors will make him reconsider his behavior, maybe not, but it's not for you to decide in this situation. If you're going to do anything, give other people enough Information to make their own decision about whether or not they want to use him as a host.
posted by nightrecordings at 12:17 PM on January 30, 2020 [20 favorites]

This whole thing sounds vaguely Stockholm syndrome-y. You were a guest in his house, ie in a vulnerable position with respect to him, and he made repeated sexual overtures to you and didn’t want to take no for an answer. That’s pretty predatory and it’s way beyond fixing with a web link. Are you trying to “solve” this in this way because confronting what happened is too uncomfortable?
posted by eirias at 2:15 PM on January 30, 2020 [7 favorites]

Rejecting outright the “its not for me but YMMV” language. It was not a matter of taste: it was non-consensual. And outside the bounds of the contract. Don’t soften please.
posted by Miko at 2:21 PM on January 30, 2020 [29 favorites]

Wow. Yeah, please don't suggest to anyone that breaching the very clear "no sexual advances" rules on the site is a thing that you just happened not to appreciate, but other people might be just fine with if they're less finicky.

Your job is not to educate this man, your job is to report his behavior to the site. Arrangements like Couchsurfing only work if the rules are enforced, and they can only be enforced if breaches are reported. Failing to report it = participating in his game.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:25 PM on January 30, 2020 [17 favorites]

I know people do hook up on couchsurfing but it’s meant to be consensual sparks flew, not aggressive solicitation which is what happened to you. The western women are promiscuous stereotype may have contributed but all around everyone above is correct: this was harassment going on molestation.

I agree you are probably processing it by trying to frame it as something you can fix or help rather than as an awful and dehumanizing experience you suffered. It sounds awful, and I am sorry this happened to you. Report him to the website when you have the energy, talk to a hotline or a therapist or just friends.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:31 PM on January 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I understand you are trying to come at this from a place of giving him the benefit of the doubt (often the response of someone who's been sexually harassed!) but ask yourself:

Would you be taking this approach towards him if he was a white dude you couchsurfed with in the US? If he was named Chad and lived in Ohio and did all of these things (very much a real possibility!) would you send him "a primer for non-romantic basic/beginner interactions with women? Topics could include personal space, text messaging, how to take cues, etc."?

I don't think you would.

He knows what he's doing, no matter how clueless he acts. He probably thinks white girls are easy. No matter how much you try to "respect local cultures through clothing, actions, and language" you aren't going to change his expectations. You're working towards being not-an-asshole-tourist, that's awesome. But men will still make assumptions that they want to make, because it's not about you as an individual.

Just report him and move on.
posted by 100kb at 6:28 PM on January 30, 2020 [8 favorites]

Chiming in to say, NOPE, please do not be "understanding" of this man's violation of your body. He has no excuse for not seeking your consent. His cultural background is not an excuse. And his cultural background is no excuse for you to treat him differently from any white, western guy who acts in the same way.
posted by MiraK at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2020 [5 favorites]

Look at his profile on Couch Surfing - does he seem to only host women? I always feel suspect of men who seem to have a million reviews on CS, all from women. Many of them may be ok people but the gender balance of the comments suggests they have ulterior motives.

You seem maybe young and wanting to be nice and give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes people don't deserve the benefit of the doubt though. And even if he was so ignorant about that being appropriate behavior, it sounds like he made you feel pretty uncomfortable and one way to clearly communicate to him that his behavior was not appropriate is to say as much in the comments or to a site administrator.
posted by knownfossils at 8:37 PM on January 30, 2020 [3 favorites]