Wants to date casually, worried I should "keep working on myself first"
May 8, 2018 11:04 AM Subscribe
I'm a 32 year old sensitive/slightly awkward/nerdy guy with very little experience with dating and romance who is interested in "putting myself out there" after a long dry spell (keeping in mind a history of depression and anxiety, currently under control but not completely absent). I'm more or less together when it comes to most aspects of my life, but I haven't been on any sort of date in years-I've deliberately avoided trying to date because I felt like I needed to focus on self improvement. Unfortunately, I've made a lot of progress, but I don't know if it's enough to look for dates again. Any advice? Should I go for and set up an online profile, see what happens, despite not having my life completely "together" or being super-confident?
I don't like the whole “marketing” aspect of dating sites, but I don't meet a lot of people in my day-to-day life who I'm interested in (and are single, and interested in me...), and I'd be more comfortable initiating something in writing than in person. The problem is still feeling like I'm not confident or impressive enough-like I need to reach some sort of vague "milestone" until I feel like I can give it a shot (and, yes, I have been in therapy. Many times. It's been very helpful, but has not made my anxieties completely go away, just made it easier to handle them).
In my head, in order to be "dateable", I "should" be a successful, financially secure adult who is also incredibly adventurous and outgoing-I "ought" to be more assertive”smooth”/charismatic, have a close-knit friend group (and be someone who makes friends easily), work at my dream job, and have several exciting skill-based hobbies. Maybe this sounds ridiculous-like I know that people aren't really looking for perfection, and most people deviate from the norm (let alone the ideal, which, obviously, no one lives up to)...but these are the thoughts I have. In terms of how I "measure up" to this imaginary ideal: well, I have many passions and interests, but I'm not sure how impressive they are, or if I'm serious enough about them to consider them "hobbies", and many of the things I enjoy are solitary. Most of my friends have moved away; I'm much more proactive about reaching out to friends and socializing than I used to be, but it is more difficult (not impossible-it just seems to take more time and patience) to maintain friendships than when I was younger. As for work, I work and make enough to live alone, but I'm not where I want to be, career-wise, and it could be a while before I am. I feel like a late bloomer who is still in the blooming process.
Therapists and family members consistently tell me I'm too hard on myself, but a lot of self help advice seems to suggest that people need to be HARDER on themselves-like if I'm not exactly where I want to be in life, than I must not be working hard enough (hard for me to not see hints of American-style extreme individualism at play here). Additionally, much of the dating advice I've read online (not pick up artist stuff-give me a little credit!) suggests that I shouldn't be looking for someone if I feel lonely or have insecurities-if I'm lonely, I just need to “work on myself” more, and once I have this amazing life that I feel someone else would enjoy being part of, then and only then is it okay for me to put myself out there. The thing is...I've been "working on myself" for years, but a lot of my accomplishments aren't things that would necessarily impress other people, and I still feel like I may not measure up to others' standards when it comes to being relationship material. I mean, I DO love myself (like loving a family member, or a close friend, in the sense that I love myself while recognizing I have flaws) and I have a lot of great qualities, but I don't know how I could possibly be someone's “first choice”. I get that dating is not supposed to be like applying for jobs, and this is not how most people experience attraction, but telling myself that hasn't made the fear go away.
Anyway, I've been sort of "stuck" for a while-I get that I have more work to do, but making no progress on this front is getting really frustrating. I should add that I would never talk about feeling insecure on a dating profile. I also think if I actually tried to date, I'd get a better idea of which aspects of dating are the biggest struggles for me, so I can focus on those.
I don't like the whole “marketing” aspect of dating sites, but I don't meet a lot of people in my day-to-day life who I'm interested in (and are single, and interested in me...), and I'd be more comfortable initiating something in writing than in person. The problem is still feeling like I'm not confident or impressive enough-like I need to reach some sort of vague "milestone" until I feel like I can give it a shot (and, yes, I have been in therapy. Many times. It's been very helpful, but has not made my anxieties completely go away, just made it easier to handle them).
In my head, in order to be "dateable", I "should" be a successful, financially secure adult who is also incredibly adventurous and outgoing-I "ought" to be more assertive”smooth”/charismatic, have a close-knit friend group (and be someone who makes friends easily), work at my dream job, and have several exciting skill-based hobbies. Maybe this sounds ridiculous-like I know that people aren't really looking for perfection, and most people deviate from the norm (let alone the ideal, which, obviously, no one lives up to)...but these are the thoughts I have. In terms of how I "measure up" to this imaginary ideal: well, I have many passions and interests, but I'm not sure how impressive they are, or if I'm serious enough about them to consider them "hobbies", and many of the things I enjoy are solitary. Most of my friends have moved away; I'm much more proactive about reaching out to friends and socializing than I used to be, but it is more difficult (not impossible-it just seems to take more time and patience) to maintain friendships than when I was younger. As for work, I work and make enough to live alone, but I'm not where I want to be, career-wise, and it could be a while before I am. I feel like a late bloomer who is still in the blooming process.
Therapists and family members consistently tell me I'm too hard on myself, but a lot of self help advice seems to suggest that people need to be HARDER on themselves-like if I'm not exactly where I want to be in life, than I must not be working hard enough (hard for me to not see hints of American-style extreme individualism at play here). Additionally, much of the dating advice I've read online (not pick up artist stuff-give me a little credit!) suggests that I shouldn't be looking for someone if I feel lonely or have insecurities-if I'm lonely, I just need to “work on myself” more, and once I have this amazing life that I feel someone else would enjoy being part of, then and only then is it okay for me to put myself out there. The thing is...I've been "working on myself" for years, but a lot of my accomplishments aren't things that would necessarily impress other people, and I still feel like I may not measure up to others' standards when it comes to being relationship material. I mean, I DO love myself (like loving a family member, or a close friend, in the sense that I love myself while recognizing I have flaws) and I have a lot of great qualities, but I don't know how I could possibly be someone's “first choice”. I get that dating is not supposed to be like applying for jobs, and this is not how most people experience attraction, but telling myself that hasn't made the fear go away.
Anyway, I've been sort of "stuck" for a while-I get that I have more work to do, but making no progress on this front is getting really frustrating. I should add that I would never talk about feeling insecure on a dating profile. I also think if I actually tried to date, I'd get a better idea of which aspects of dating are the biggest struggles for me, so I can focus on those.
I mean, all kinds of goofy people date. If you can manage to treat the people around you well, that's pretty much... it? There are some people looking for wealthy extroverted type-A people, but there are lots of people looking for someone with whom they can watch a movie on the couch and eat some cheese.
If you're capable of treating the people around you in a respectful and non-transactional way, you'll be a pleasant person to go out with. There's zero harm to be done by trying it.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:21 AM on May 8, 2018 [10 favorites]
If you're capable of treating the people around you in a respectful and non-transactional way, you'll be a pleasant person to go out with. There's zero harm to be done by trying it.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:21 AM on May 8, 2018 [10 favorites]
I feel like a late bloomer who is still in the blooming process.
Nice work. That is fine. The internet is full of hypercritical people and people trying to attract eyeballs to sell ads and what attracts eyeballs is conflict. So this is just to say, ignore a lot of the advice that makes you alarmed and focus on something a little more personal.
Anxiety specifically wants you to stay afraid and timid. Yours may not go away but you can learn to live with it and not have it run your life. And lots of people live with anxiety and understand where you are and how it may not be where you want to be.
Just from reading this I am getting
- that you have a job and support yourself
- that you have a sense of humor
- that you are reflective
- that you have your own place
- that you are good with words
So hey those are some things! And as tchemgrrl astutely puts, there are a lot of different ways to be human and a lot of different ways to date. Think about what you're looking for and what you think you could offer to someone else and try to aim for something that works for you, not some platonic ideal of the ideal person (there isn't one, it's all about "good fit"). Be honest about where you're at, try to aim for people that are in the general ballpark with you, try some things. It can be hard because your depressive mind can be like "Well THAT date didn't go amazing so i guess I'll be alone forever...." but part of managing your emotional balance should mean trying some things and learning how to roll with them. Good luck. I think this is something you can do.
posted by jessamyn at 11:28 AM on May 8, 2018 [22 favorites]
Nice work. That is fine. The internet is full of hypercritical people and people trying to attract eyeballs to sell ads and what attracts eyeballs is conflict. So this is just to say, ignore a lot of the advice that makes you alarmed and focus on something a little more personal.
Anxiety specifically wants you to stay afraid and timid. Yours may not go away but you can learn to live with it and not have it run your life. And lots of people live with anxiety and understand where you are and how it may not be where you want to be.
Just from reading this I am getting
- that you have a job and support yourself
- that you have a sense of humor
- that you are reflective
- that you have your own place
- that you are good with words
So hey those are some things! And as tchemgrrl astutely puts, there are a lot of different ways to be human and a lot of different ways to date. Think about what you're looking for and what you think you could offer to someone else and try to aim for something that works for you, not some platonic ideal of the ideal person (there isn't one, it's all about "good fit"). Be honest about where you're at, try to aim for people that are in the general ballpark with you, try some things. It can be hard because your depressive mind can be like "Well THAT date didn't go amazing so i guess I'll be alone forever...." but part of managing your emotional balance should mean trying some things and learning how to roll with them. Good luck. I think this is something you can do.
posted by jessamyn at 11:28 AM on May 8, 2018 [22 favorites]
I mean, wouldn't you date a flawed, nerdy, slightly insecure person who wasn't necessarily at their dream job or engaging in super impressive hobbies? Like if you liked having a coffee with them and talking to them? Wouldn't that be okay, or like a little miracle?
posted by kapers at 11:30 AM on May 8, 2018 [38 favorites]
posted by kapers at 11:30 AM on May 8, 2018 [38 favorites]
1. You do not have to be perfect or perfectly happy with yourself in order to date. You don't have to be 100% secure or never lonely in order to date. You don't have to have a glowing personality or complete lack of cellulite in order to date. The ONLY rule of dating is mutual enthusiastic consent (in sexual contexts, yes, but try to apply it outward to other interactions also). Everything else is learn-as-you-go.
2. The advice to "work on yourself" if you have insecurities or if you feel lonely is not (generally) intended as wait until you are no longer lonely or insecure before you date, but as do not look to whoever you are dating as the solution to your loneliness or insecurity. There is a difference, yes? But again, see #1, you do not have to be able to do this perfectly in order to date, because messing up in this area will be a learning experience for you. You might end up hurt because you thought you weren't going to be lonely anymore but you got dumped. You might end up hurting someone because your insecurities cause you to withhold trust from them even when they deserve trust. This is dating. This is life. It will happen, and you'll learn by doing, and you'll grow and get better.
Go on and date! Good luck!
posted by MiraK at 11:35 AM on May 8, 2018 [10 favorites]
2. The advice to "work on yourself" if you have insecurities or if you feel lonely is not (generally) intended as wait until you are no longer lonely or insecure before you date, but as do not look to whoever you are dating as the solution to your loneliness or insecurity. There is a difference, yes? But again, see #1, you do not have to be able to do this perfectly in order to date, because messing up in this area will be a learning experience for you. You might end up hurt because you thought you weren't going to be lonely anymore but you got dumped. You might end up hurting someone because your insecurities cause you to withhold trust from them even when they deserve trust. This is dating. This is life. It will happen, and you'll learn by doing, and you'll grow and get better.
Go on and date! Good luck!
posted by MiraK at 11:35 AM on May 8, 2018 [10 favorites]
I almost could have written this question except that I'm a woman. I think that if you wait until you are free from all insecurities and have your life completely together, you will be waiting a long, long time. Not because you're a mess, but because no one is free from insecurities and has their stuff together all the time. Everyone is doing the best they can.
Also, I *do* have an online dating profile right now and can tell you there is wide range of people out there shooting their shot, all with different ideas of what it means to be dateable or having their life together (and thank goodness--a lid for every pot and all that). From what I can glean here, you fall within the range of "normal" and "dateable" people.
I encourage you to make a profile (and yes-don't talk about feeling insecure; it can be true, but don't advertise it at the outset).
Also, I saw I Feel Pretty and while it's a silly movie, it did really illustrate how attractive confidence can be. I didn't magically leave all my insecurities in the theater, but it was a nice reminder that insecurities/imperfections are generally more what you make of them than what other people do. The movie did change the narrative I have about myself in my own head a little. YMMV.
posted by kochenta at 11:44 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also, I *do* have an online dating profile right now and can tell you there is wide range of people out there shooting their shot, all with different ideas of what it means to be dateable or having their life together (and thank goodness--a lid for every pot and all that). From what I can glean here, you fall within the range of "normal" and "dateable" people.
I encourage you to make a profile (and yes-don't talk about feeling insecure; it can be true, but don't advertise it at the outset).
Also, I saw I Feel Pretty and while it's a silly movie, it did really illustrate how attractive confidence can be. I didn't magically leave all my insecurities in the theater, but it was a nice reminder that insecurities/imperfections are generally more what you make of them than what other people do. The movie did change the narrative I have about myself in my own head a little. YMMV.
posted by kochenta at 11:44 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Photos are easily what will make or break your "marketing" profile, not your job, your anxiety/depression, etc. People decide in about 2 seconds if they like you or not from your photo alone. Any site that doesn't put photos front and center takes a lot more time to do anything.
Research the photos that reflect your sense of humor and your style. Get a friend that knows how to pose you. Don't use group pictures or pictures with female friends.
posted by bbqturtle at 11:46 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Research the photos that reflect your sense of humor and your style. Get a friend that knows how to pose you. Don't use group pictures or pictures with female friends.
posted by bbqturtle at 11:46 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think the only people who have the right to say that shouldn't date if you're lonely because it means you need to work on yourself are people who have spent their lives voluntarily single.
From what I've seen seen of the dating pool, if you're staying on top of your bills, have your own place, and are not a misogynist, you're pretty much the cream of the crop. Give it a try and see how it feels.
posted by metasarah at 11:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
From what I've seen seen of the dating pool, if you're staying on top of your bills, have your own place, and are not a misogynist, you're pretty much the cream of the crop. Give it a try and see how it feels.
posted by metasarah at 11:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I feel like you might be misinterpreting that "work on yourself first" advice a little bit - my understanding is that it's not about making yourself more impressive to potential partners, but instead about getting to a place where you're looking for someone to share your life with rather than someone to fix your problems. It's about becoming a mature, competent realization of yourself. Some of the goals you're listing - being adventurous and outgoing, charismatic, someone who makes friends easily - some of these are certainly skills you can practice, but to a large extent they're also just personality traits. You are who you are and that's great. Your goal with dating shouldn't be to become someone you aren't, it should be to find someone who will love the authentic person that you are. And I think you should go for it.
Also, your hobbies don't have to be impressive to anyone else. I don't think I know anyone who holds their hobbies to that standard (ok, maybe high schoolers thinking about their college applications). Hobbies are just things that *you* enjoy doing, there's nothing wrong with that.
posted by omnie at 11:51 AM on May 8, 2018 [9 favorites]
Also, your hobbies don't have to be impressive to anyone else. I don't think I know anyone who holds their hobbies to that standard (ok, maybe high schoolers thinking about their college applications). Hobbies are just things that *you* enjoy doing, there's nothing wrong with that.
posted by omnie at 11:51 AM on May 8, 2018 [9 favorites]
You sound lovely and self aware and I totally think you should date.
I also think you should read "Quiet" so you can understand why our society assumes extroverted and gregarious = better and why that's a false belief.
posted by yawper at 11:53 AM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
I also think you should read "Quiet" so you can understand why our society assumes extroverted and gregarious = better and why that's a false belief.
posted by yawper at 11:53 AM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Get out there and date.
I think you're just trying to find excuses not to, and the excuses you're coming up with are the kind of trivial, irrelevant "personal flaws" that you're only "facing" as a method of NOT engaging with the actual important, relevant personal flaws/challenges that you need to face in order to grow.
Not having serious, skills-based hobbies is not going to be a genuine issue in romantic relationships, for example. But other things might. Lack of passion for your life or the people in it might. Lack of social skills and willingness to take social risks might. If those things are genuine issues then you'll have to deal with them and may very well fail at relationships/happiness/whatever until you do. Distracting yourself with silly things like your lack of hobby investment/etc is counterproductive (albeit it's easier on your ego -- which is probably why you're paying attention to it instead of whatever actually ails you).
But anyway, for now, before you know what is actually a problem (for a specific relationship that you want to nurture) and what's just an excuse to keep yourself complacent and "safe," you've just got to put yourself out there, take the leap of faith, and see what happens.
posted by rue72 at 11:57 AM on May 8, 2018 [8 favorites]
I think you're just trying to find excuses not to, and the excuses you're coming up with are the kind of trivial, irrelevant "personal flaws" that you're only "facing" as a method of NOT engaging with the actual important, relevant personal flaws/challenges that you need to face in order to grow.
Not having serious, skills-based hobbies is not going to be a genuine issue in romantic relationships, for example. But other things might. Lack of passion for your life or the people in it might. Lack of social skills and willingness to take social risks might. If those things are genuine issues then you'll have to deal with them and may very well fail at relationships/happiness/whatever until you do. Distracting yourself with silly things like your lack of hobby investment/etc is counterproductive (albeit it's easier on your ego -- which is probably why you're paying attention to it instead of whatever actually ails you).
But anyway, for now, before you know what is actually a problem (for a specific relationship that you want to nurture) and what's just an excuse to keep yourself complacent and "safe," you've just got to put yourself out there, take the leap of faith, and see what happens.
posted by rue72 at 11:57 AM on May 8, 2018 [8 favorites]
If I waited until I was "done" working on myself before dating I'd still be alone. I am currently in a long-distance relationship and we both have our things we are dealing with (guess what - everyone does!), but we're honest and open about them.
For me the biggest pitfall of dating as a person who felt broken (particularly after my divorce) was that I secretly wanted to be rescued. Don't put this on someone else.
Also if a date doesn't lead to another date, don't be hard on yourself. It will be very tempting to pile on all the negative self-talk.
posted by O9scar at 12:32 PM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
For me the biggest pitfall of dating as a person who felt broken (particularly after my divorce) was that I secretly wanted to be rescued. Don't put this on someone else.
Also if a date doesn't lead to another date, don't be hard on yourself. It will be very tempting to pile on all the negative self-talk.
posted by O9scar at 12:32 PM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Don't count yourself out! Not everyone is attracted to the same type of man.
I am genuinely and honestly repulsed by these traits in men:
-successful
-adventurous
-assertive
-smooth
-exciting
-super-confident
And I love and seek out these traits in men:
-sensitive
-awkward
-nerdy
-focus on self-improvement
-enjoys solitary pursuits
posted by cranberrymonger at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
I am genuinely and honestly repulsed by these traits in men:
-successful
-adventurous
-assertive
-smooth
-exciting
-super-confident
And I love and seek out these traits in men:
-sensitive
-awkward
-nerdy
-focus on self-improvement
-enjoys solitary pursuits
posted by cranberrymonger at 1:02 PM on May 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
work at my dream job, and have several exciting skill-based hobbies.
people in the casual dating stage want someone they can talk to and do things with. that by itself is plenty hard enough to find. they do not want you to be better at everything than they are; they do not need to be shown off to. A social hobby is helpful if your date shares it, but a few interests you can talk about without being a bore are just as good or better. not sure you're looking to date women/only women, but if you are, a man who is open to being impressed - sincerely, not flattering or groveling - is worth a hundred men who need to be impressive. remember that only half of dating is being interesting, the other half is being interested.
it is completely fine to date while insecure. completely. don't make it a talking point and don't solicit reassurance or apologize for yourself, but you don't have to be confident in yourself, just act like you sort of are.
this kind of resume-based dating prep is only worthwhile if you're looking to date people who want someone marriage-ready within the year, which doesn't sound like what you're after. and you can date without being anyone's initial first choice. that is fine. you can go out with someone just because they think you seem pleasant, and practice having dinner and conversation with a stranger. do not fool yourself into thinking you're in love with a profile and don't get depressed if nobody falls in love with yours. you can always delete everything and try again later. maybe it won't go too well at first, it's fine.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:38 PM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
people in the casual dating stage want someone they can talk to and do things with. that by itself is plenty hard enough to find. they do not want you to be better at everything than they are; they do not need to be shown off to. A social hobby is helpful if your date shares it, but a few interests you can talk about without being a bore are just as good or better. not sure you're looking to date women/only women, but if you are, a man who is open to being impressed - sincerely, not flattering or groveling - is worth a hundred men who need to be impressive. remember that only half of dating is being interesting, the other half is being interested.
it is completely fine to date while insecure. completely. don't make it a talking point and don't solicit reassurance or apologize for yourself, but you don't have to be confident in yourself, just act like you sort of are.
this kind of resume-based dating prep is only worthwhile if you're looking to date people who want someone marriage-ready within the year, which doesn't sound like what you're after. and you can date without being anyone's initial first choice. that is fine. you can go out with someone just because they think you seem pleasant, and practice having dinner and conversation with a stranger. do not fool yourself into thinking you're in love with a profile and don't get depressed if nobody falls in love with yours. you can always delete everything and try again later. maybe it won't go too well at first, it's fine.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:38 PM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think in order to date a person has to be able to be honest with themselves and others. Not desperate oversharing of every little part of our interior lives or anything, but to be able to say:
* I am interested in you romantically, would you like to get to know me that way?
* I like you, and I want to be more committed to you, and I say this even though it is scary because it could mean you don't feel the same way and that could have consequences
* No, I don't want to do that
* This isn't working for me and we should break up
* You have broken up with me, and though I might be sad and upset, I will take you at your word and accept it
* This best self I am putting forward for you is a version of my real self, not a facade (example: I will say things I don't believe so you will think better of me) or a deception (example: I'm actually married and cheating on my wife).
Nothing you describe makes me feel like you're not capable of striving for that kind of honesty, and I think trying to date would be a good thing for you to work on, and that dating WOULD be working on yourself. Anxiety is very good at hearing something like "work on yourself before dating others" and pegging it to an impossible standard so that we are caged in soothing inaction.
posted by foxfirefey at 2:58 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
* I am interested in you romantically, would you like to get to know me that way?
* I like you, and I want to be more committed to you, and I say this even though it is scary because it could mean you don't feel the same way and that could have consequences
* No, I don't want to do that
* This isn't working for me and we should break up
* You have broken up with me, and though I might be sad and upset, I will take you at your word and accept it
* This best self I am putting forward for you is a version of my real self, not a facade (example: I will say things I don't believe so you will think better of me) or a deception (example: I'm actually married and cheating on my wife).
Nothing you describe makes me feel like you're not capable of striving for that kind of honesty, and I think trying to date would be a good thing for you to work on, and that dating WOULD be working on yourself. Anxiety is very good at hearing something like "work on yourself before dating others" and pegging it to an impossible standard so that we are caged in soothing inaction.
posted by foxfirefey at 2:58 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
As long as you're not deliberately deluding anybody about yourself, there's no reason not to try dating. You might be surprised at the number of people who are looking to date someone like you are right now. There are probably others who will admire the fact that you're working on self-improvement, which is really something we all should probably be doing to one extent or another.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:53 PM on May 8, 2018
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:53 PM on May 8, 2018
From what I've seen seen of the dating pool, if you're staying on top of your bills, have your own place, and are not a misogynist, you're pretty much the cream of the crop.
So much this. Okay, so you're not as together as you'd like to be, but that's everyone. Actually, scratch that -- it's just self-aware people who feel that way, while egotistical/narcissistic people think they're superior beings and it's everyone else who is their problem. So your attitude makes you one of the self-aware portion of the world's population. This is a good thing! Heaven knows I've had my fill of men who preen themselves on how great they think they are while talking shit about women.
The thing to remember when dating is that no one (neither you nor anyone else) is really "special". We're all just flawed human beings trying to get through life as best we can. You mention three separate times that you think you're not impressive, that your accomplishments aren't of the kind to impress anyone, etc., but the thing is, you shouldn't be trying to impress anyone, and you should be looking past the polished surface the people you date initially present to you. What you should be doing is trying to connect with others by being genuine and honest with them in order to get to know them so that the two of you can find out whether you're a good fit or not.
So I'd say, go ahead and start dating again. You might find a girlfriend, or you might only go on a string of interesting beverage dates, which will leave you with lots of time to work on the things you want to work on while greatly increasing the odds that you'll eventually meet someone. That's a win-win situation.
posted by orange swan at 4:03 PM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
So much this. Okay, so you're not as together as you'd like to be, but that's everyone. Actually, scratch that -- it's just self-aware people who feel that way, while egotistical/narcissistic people think they're superior beings and it's everyone else who is their problem. So your attitude makes you one of the self-aware portion of the world's population. This is a good thing! Heaven knows I've had my fill of men who preen themselves on how great they think they are while talking shit about women.
The thing to remember when dating is that no one (neither you nor anyone else) is really "special". We're all just flawed human beings trying to get through life as best we can. You mention three separate times that you think you're not impressive, that your accomplishments aren't of the kind to impress anyone, etc., but the thing is, you shouldn't be trying to impress anyone, and you should be looking past the polished surface the people you date initially present to you. What you should be doing is trying to connect with others by being genuine and honest with them in order to get to know them so that the two of you can find out whether you're a good fit or not.
So I'd say, go ahead and start dating again. You might find a girlfriend, or you might only go on a string of interesting beverage dates, which will leave you with lots of time to work on the things you want to work on while greatly increasing the odds that you'll eventually meet someone. That's a win-win situation.
posted by orange swan at 4:03 PM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was like you when I was 32 (I'm about to turn 37 now and just started dating someone I like a lot. I didn't meet her online, but the dating I did online helped prepare me to approach her with confidence.) I had one big relationship that lasted through my mid-20s and when it ended, kind of traumatically, I just removed myself from romance entirely for years. I've been exploring it in earnest for the past couple of years and I wish I had been doing it with this regularity sooner. I made some forays into it when I was in my early 30s but would get scared away (read: too much in my own head) for long periods of time. I've had some great and not-great experiences, but if anything, the act of doing it was really helpful for making me feel better about myself, as well as teaching me about the dynamics of it all, about what I like and what I don't, and what I should accept and what I shouldn't.
Get out there; be kind to yourself in whatever fear you're feeling, but get out there. I personally found OkCupid a bit better than the swipe apps because you're able to write more of substance about yourself there (if you're interested in communicating that way, as it sounds like you may be), but they've since redesigned to background a lot of that info (even though it's still there) and make it more like the swipe apps, so, maybe there's a better choice out there. But, try a few, see what you feel like, experiment, and just keep the wits and sensitivity, which you display in your post here, about you, and you'll do fine.
One note about the "just have good grammar and be decent and you're already way better than most guys on these sites" sentiment, just to manage your expectations: while you're almost certainly way above the horrible behavior that a lot of men on dating sites display, being a decent person doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be easy, or that the people you like will like you back just because you can write a good, thoughtful message. "Matching" with someone on any of these sites means almost nothing. The miss rate is high and you need to be prepared for that. The nature of online dating is really ephemeral and that can be hard. But if you go in with the right expectations, it's manageable.
And you're good enough now. I promise you that.
posted by Kosh at 4:51 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Get out there; be kind to yourself in whatever fear you're feeling, but get out there. I personally found OkCupid a bit better than the swipe apps because you're able to write more of substance about yourself there (if you're interested in communicating that way, as it sounds like you may be), but they've since redesigned to background a lot of that info (even though it's still there) and make it more like the swipe apps, so, maybe there's a better choice out there. But, try a few, see what you feel like, experiment, and just keep the wits and sensitivity, which you display in your post here, about you, and you'll do fine.
One note about the "just have good grammar and be decent and you're already way better than most guys on these sites" sentiment, just to manage your expectations: while you're almost certainly way above the horrible behavior that a lot of men on dating sites display, being a decent person doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be easy, or that the people you like will like you back just because you can write a good, thoughtful message. "Matching" with someone on any of these sites means almost nothing. The miss rate is high and you need to be prepared for that. The nature of online dating is really ephemeral and that can be hard. But if you go in with the right expectations, it's manageable.
And you're good enough now. I promise you that.
posted by Kosh at 4:51 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Are you able to financially support yourself and have a place to live and take care of yourself in general? If so, congratulations, you are hitting the bare minimum you need to date as an adult. Don't worry about being "perfect" with all the other stuff. Everyone knows tons of people who weren't all self -actualized before finding love.
Also, you might want to read Doctor Nerdlove, as he talks about this sort of thing and is very encouraging.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:36 PM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, you might want to read Doctor Nerdlove, as he talks about this sort of thing and is very encouraging.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:36 PM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
As a sensitive (maybe) nerdy (definitely) guy myself.... I find focusing on the process is always more helpful than the outcome. To give a video game analogy, say in a random popular game, League of Legends, or something, you want to learn how to play a new champion. If you're hyper focused on the outcome - the desire to win - right from the start - I think that's really the wrong attitude. You don't expect to start a huge winning streak right away. In fact, you don't know what to expect. All you can do is enter the game, treat other people with respect, do your best, have fun, learn from it, and slowly become a better player. This is a much better idea than, say, deliberately "not" playing the game for a year in order to study all the strategy guides until you feel you're prepared enough to play this new champion.
And like League... the world is so large, even if you are in the top 1%, there are still going to be many situations where you are the worst player out of 10 in the game. And if you're in the worst 1%, there are equally as many situations where you are going to be the best player out of 10 in the game. And no matter whether you're in the top 1% or bottom 1%, I guarantee you it's possible to have a great time playing the game with your teammates, it's just about finding the right people. So don't let where you are right now be something holding you back.
And don't discount the many people you say you meet who you think aren't interested in you. I'm sure you don't go outwardly telling people you would like to date them, and I'm also sure many of them have rich inner lives you may not suspect under the surface. Before you discount the people you already know, it can be worth the time investing in your friendships and relationships with them so you can get to know them better. Everything is a form of learning by doing: emotional intimacy in our friendships, for example, is not so radically different to the kind of intimacy we practice in our relationship with our partners - it is based on trust, support, a need to be witnessed, to feel like our lives are meaningful, to know that we are good people, to feel like we are making a difference in another person's life.
posted by xdvesper at 12:42 AM on May 9, 2018
And like League... the world is so large, even if you are in the top 1%, there are still going to be many situations where you are the worst player out of 10 in the game. And if you're in the worst 1%, there are equally as many situations where you are going to be the best player out of 10 in the game. And no matter whether you're in the top 1% or bottom 1%, I guarantee you it's possible to have a great time playing the game with your teammates, it's just about finding the right people. So don't let where you are right now be something holding you back.
And don't discount the many people you say you meet who you think aren't interested in you. I'm sure you don't go outwardly telling people you would like to date them, and I'm also sure many of them have rich inner lives you may not suspect under the surface. Before you discount the people you already know, it can be worth the time investing in your friendships and relationships with them so you can get to know them better. Everything is a form of learning by doing: emotional intimacy in our friendships, for example, is not so radically different to the kind of intimacy we practice in our relationship with our partners - it is based on trust, support, a need to be witnessed, to feel like our lives are meaningful, to know that we are good people, to feel like we are making a difference in another person's life.
posted by xdvesper at 12:42 AM on May 9, 2018
I mean... everyone's a work in progress. If everyone waited till they were a complete, flawless human being before they started dating the human race would quickly die out. Even the fact that you're thinking about focusing on yourself makes you more self-aware than many, and that's what lots of people are looking for in a partner. Even if you have flaws, you're still worthy of love and affection; and a lot of what you characterise as flaws really don't read like that to many. And as pointed out above, not every woman goes for the charming, self-confident, swaggering type - I certainly don't, as a data point, and am much more likely to gravitate to nerdy introspective types.
AskMe is a really good resource for dating and relationship advice so definitely go through the archives!
I should add that I would never talk about feeling insecure on a dating profile.
This already shows me your instincts are good. :)
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:35 AM on May 9, 2018
AskMe is a really good resource for dating and relationship advice so definitely go through the archives!
I should add that I would never talk about feeling insecure on a dating profile.
This already shows me your instincts are good. :)
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:35 AM on May 9, 2018
I mean, wouldn't you date a flawed, nerdy, slightly insecure person who wasn't necessarily at their dream job or engaging in super impressive hobbies?
Would you, though? Something I've noticed with guys who are in their 30s and relatively inexperienced is that they often have unrealistic expectations of what their partners' lives should look like. There are parts of the internet where you'll find video game-addicted guys who have an issue with their girlfriends having sedentary hobbies. You seem okay, but the reality is that poor self-awareness around this kind of stuff can interfere with your partner's sense of self.
(If you're not comfortable with being a member of a club that'll accept you...just read my post history to understand the damage that partners like that can do.)
It might be a bit different because I'm a woman, but I do find that having oneself more "together" when you start dating means that it's easier to find someone who'll have more respect for your priorities and boundaries. You also don't want to end up with someone who prefers you as a work-in-progress and will resent or tear you down once you begin to achieve your goals. This doesn't mean you shouldn't date, but you should be very attuned to how your dates react to you wanting to invest in your life, and you shouldn't give them a hard time for wanting to invest in theirs.
posted by blerghamot at 3:49 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Would you, though? Something I've noticed with guys who are in their 30s and relatively inexperienced is that they often have unrealistic expectations of what their partners' lives should look like. There are parts of the internet where you'll find video game-addicted guys who have an issue with their girlfriends having sedentary hobbies. You seem okay, but the reality is that poor self-awareness around this kind of stuff can interfere with your partner's sense of self.
(If you're not comfortable with being a member of a club that'll accept you...just read my post history to understand the damage that partners like that can do.)
It might be a bit different because I'm a woman, but I do find that having oneself more "together" when you start dating means that it's easier to find someone who'll have more respect for your priorities and boundaries. You also don't want to end up with someone who prefers you as a work-in-progress and will resent or tear you down once you begin to achieve your goals. This doesn't mean you shouldn't date, but you should be very attuned to how your dates react to you wanting to invest in your life, and you shouldn't give them a hard time for wanting to invest in theirs.
posted by blerghamot at 3:49 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, wouldn't you date a flawed, nerdy, slightly insecure person who wasn't necessarily at their dream job or engaging in super impressive hobbies?
Yep. I'm bi and I've dated a few men and women who fit that description, and I married one of them.
I'd known my now-wife for years as an acquaintance, general member of my peer social group, and then at a party we got talking and then snuggling and then started making out a bit and then things went from there. I was 34 at the time. So, late blooming happens.
I'd had a couple of short relationships in my 20's, but after that I used to not date but occasionally have some 'friends with benefits'. When I was 32, having come out the other side of a big personal crisis, I decided that I wanted to date more (which is to say, at all) and started putting the word out to close friends, and tried to look at what I might be doing that kept me looking at people who were unavailable to me as dating partners. I had some good conversations with friends about this - both to see what I looked like from the outside and to have them talking about who they knew that might be single and looking. Therapy helped a lot, too, with untangling the big knot of issues in my brain.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:34 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yep. I'm bi and I've dated a few men and women who fit that description, and I married one of them.
I'd known my now-wife for years as an acquaintance, general member of my peer social group, and then at a party we got talking and then snuggling and then started making out a bit and then things went from there. I was 34 at the time. So, late blooming happens.
I'd had a couple of short relationships in my 20's, but after that I used to not date but occasionally have some 'friends with benefits'. When I was 32, having come out the other side of a big personal crisis, I decided that I wanted to date more (which is to say, at all) and started putting the word out to close friends, and tried to look at what I might be doing that kept me looking at people who were unavailable to me as dating partners. I had some good conversations with friends about this - both to see what I looked like from the outside and to have them talking about who they knew that might be single and looking. Therapy helped a lot, too, with untangling the big knot of issues in my brain.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:34 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
In my head, in order to be "dateable", I "should" be a successful, financially secure adult who is also incredibly adventurous and outgoing-I "ought" to be more assertive”smooth”/charismatic, have a close-knit friend group (and be someone who makes friends easily), work at my dream job, and have several exciting skill-based hobbies.
Why are you holding yourself to this standard when plenty of women aren't like this either. In effect, you are pedestalizing them by saying they are entitled to something they are not.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:51 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Why are you holding yourself to this standard when plenty of women aren't like this either. In effect, you are pedestalizing them by saying they are entitled to something they are not.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:51 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
It’s in your head, mate!
Your entire post screams ANXIETY and INSECURITY which aren’t exactly appealing traits (no matter what people tell you). However, since by your own admission you’re taking steps to mitigate that, I suggest the following:
Start going on dates with women, irrespective of your initial attraction to them, and start building your confidence. With time, your path will cross that of that special woman with whom you’ll want to share more than just a pint of beer.
By then, you will have built the sense of confidence that is required to go out in the world: not that you’re perfect but the understanding that perfection isn’t a pre-requisite to live a full live.
It really is in your head.
posted by Kwadeng at 3:37 AM on May 10, 2018
Your entire post screams ANXIETY and INSECURITY which aren’t exactly appealing traits (no matter what people tell you). However, since by your own admission you’re taking steps to mitigate that, I suggest the following:
Start going on dates with women, irrespective of your initial attraction to them, and start building your confidence. With time, your path will cross that of that special woman with whom you’ll want to share more than just a pint of beer.
By then, you will have built the sense of confidence that is required to go out in the world: not that you’re perfect but the understanding that perfection isn’t a pre-requisite to live a full live.
It really is in your head.
posted by Kwadeng at 3:37 AM on May 10, 2018
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Instead of focusing on all of the 'milestones' you haven't met yet, which can constantly shift as you reappraise your personal unreadiness, just focus on the most likely 'bad' outcome - you have an awkward dinner for a couple hours, or whatever activity serves as the date hub. The worst case scenarios are incredibly low stakes, and as soon as you get past the first one or two, it starts to become much easier. And getting to that point will become a confidence booster, which will make it even easier in the future - it's a positive feedback loop. You say there's already people with whom you have mutual interest, and that's 90% of the work done already.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:17 AM on May 8, 2018 [13 favorites]