Micromanaged, act 2: Ready, set, action.
October 20, 2019 11:33 AM Subscribe
This is a follow up to my previous question about a micromanaging contractor I'm working with closely; this time, I'm meeting with my boss to discuss the situation and see what can be done. Advice needed.
Since my last Ask, about two weeks ago, not much had improved. Debbie has continued to be micromanage-y, and the work has been piling up. It's really became overwhelming and harder for me to manage. My fellow co-workers has been great, though, so far. Earlier this week, Debbie yelled at me and another co-worker, and I realized that was the last straw. I have emailed my boss to ask for an one-on-one meeting, and it should take place tomorrow or this week sometime. What I need help and advice on is:
a) How do I express clearly and nicely to my boss that I would like to revert back to my previous job duties before I became the support person for Teamwork/other team roles? Originally, I was a writer for the organization, and was given a big, important project to rewrite a component of the organization's foundation. However, this project seemingly was dropped in favor for me to offer support to Debbie. I'd like to go back to that. How do I articulate this, while standing firm? My boss said that my support to Debbie/Teamwork was critical for our unit's success, but it's not working out for me.
b) Problem: I shared with my boss a few months ago (before I was given the new responsibilities) that I preferred not to work with a contractor, different person (I asked about this contractor last year here), who was also toxic to work with. I'd prefer, if not possible, to share that Debbie is toxic, because I don't want to come across as this person who "cried wolf". However, I may need to do that as a "last resort" if my boss does not seem to understand that Teamwork/the support role I'm in now with Debbie, isn't working out for me, mainly because of how Debbie is. How would you recommend I explain this?
c) How should I navigate this if my boss decides she needs to talk to Debbie first about taking me off the support role? How would you recommend I explain to Debbie that what I'm doing isn't working out?
d) Bonus: I'm also trying to push for a pay raise, as I am woefully underpaid for all that I do. My concern is that if I talk to my boss and renege from the role I've been in for the last ~2 months, she will think I'm a poor employee and decide I'm not worthy a payraise. I recognize the pay is a separate issue, but I'm really trying to advocate for myself here.
I'd love shared expertise and experiences with similar work environments, and advice on how to best proceed.
One more thing: based on conversations with other co-workers, it really seems like our boss is "blind" to what Debbie is doing, and that she might not be knowledgeable that Debbie is coming across as strong in her approach. In other words, it might not be that our boss is intentionally letting this happen; she is just caught up in her own affairs and work stuff to really pay attention to our team and what is happening. She also seems to trust Debbie heavily, and has taken a "hands off" approach of sorta, kind of. They worked together at a previous organization, so there's that, too.
Thanks for your thoughts, advice, and if you have any follow-up questions, feel free to ask.
Since my last Ask, about two weeks ago, not much had improved. Debbie has continued to be micromanage-y, and the work has been piling up. It's really became overwhelming and harder for me to manage. My fellow co-workers has been great, though, so far. Earlier this week, Debbie yelled at me and another co-worker, and I realized that was the last straw. I have emailed my boss to ask for an one-on-one meeting, and it should take place tomorrow or this week sometime. What I need help and advice on is:
a) How do I express clearly and nicely to my boss that I would like to revert back to my previous job duties before I became the support person for Teamwork/other team roles? Originally, I was a writer for the organization, and was given a big, important project to rewrite a component of the organization's foundation. However, this project seemingly was dropped in favor for me to offer support to Debbie. I'd like to go back to that. How do I articulate this, while standing firm? My boss said that my support to Debbie/Teamwork was critical for our unit's success, but it's not working out for me.
b) Problem: I shared with my boss a few months ago (before I was given the new responsibilities) that I preferred not to work with a contractor, different person (I asked about this contractor last year here), who was also toxic to work with. I'd prefer, if not possible, to share that Debbie is toxic, because I don't want to come across as this person who "cried wolf". However, I may need to do that as a "last resort" if my boss does not seem to understand that Teamwork/the support role I'm in now with Debbie, isn't working out for me, mainly because of how Debbie is. How would you recommend I explain this?
c) How should I navigate this if my boss decides she needs to talk to Debbie first about taking me off the support role? How would you recommend I explain to Debbie that what I'm doing isn't working out?
d) Bonus: I'm also trying to push for a pay raise, as I am woefully underpaid for all that I do. My concern is that if I talk to my boss and renege from the role I've been in for the last ~2 months, she will think I'm a poor employee and decide I'm not worthy a payraise. I recognize the pay is a separate issue, but I'm really trying to advocate for myself here.
I'd love shared expertise and experiences with similar work environments, and advice on how to best proceed.
One more thing: based on conversations with other co-workers, it really seems like our boss is "blind" to what Debbie is doing, and that she might not be knowledgeable that Debbie is coming across as strong in her approach. In other words, it might not be that our boss is intentionally letting this happen; she is just caught up in her own affairs and work stuff to really pay attention to our team and what is happening. She also seems to trust Debbie heavily, and has taken a "hands off" approach of sorta, kind of. They worked together at a previous organization, so there's that, too.
Thanks for your thoughts, advice, and if you have any follow-up questions, feel free to ask.
Response by poster: Not trying to threadsit, just wanted to quickly clarify that I recognize asking for a payraise might not be workable at this junction (it was a bonus question). Of course, I do not plan to tell my boss directly that Debbie is toxic. The main goal here is to get out of what I am currently doing (ie, not support Debbie, go back to what I was doing previously) and to do it effectively. Telling my boss about Debbie's toxic behaviors is a last resort that I would only do if my boss won't be willing initially to cut me loose from Debbie. And yes, I am searching for a new job — this is a stopgap solution to get me out of the frying pan and into a safer situation within my current job parameters for now.
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 12:59 PM on October 20, 2019
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 12:59 PM on October 20, 2019
My advice is to not mention Debbie at all, maybe only in passing. As I understand it, you were hired to write copy. The new girl needed help getting situated. That's done, so you want to write copy again.
"Boss, thank you for the opportunity to get insider information how XYZ other departments work. While working alongside Debbie I learned ABC things. It will be extremely valuable as I re-address the BIG PROJECT AND REWRITE FOR OUR FOUNDATION. Now that the reorganizing structure has settled into place, I feel it is the best time to show our new face to the public. Can we meet in person to discuss a set time frame for the project? My availability is: blah blah blah"
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:08 PM on October 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
"Boss, thank you for the opportunity to get insider information how XYZ other departments work. While working alongside Debbie I learned ABC things. It will be extremely valuable as I re-address the BIG PROJECT AND REWRITE FOR OUR FOUNDATION. Now that the reorganizing structure has settled into place, I feel it is the best time to show our new face to the public. Can we meet in person to discuss a set time frame for the project? My availability is: blah blah blah"
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:08 PM on October 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh, forgot to add: If that doesn't work, your next step should be to emphasize your Great Skills and how those Skills are not being utilized while assisting Debbie. List your accomplishments, etc. Agree with your boss that Debbie's workload absolutely needs a capable assistant, what a great call on Boss's part, you'd be thrilled to stay with Debbie until her assistant is found, then you can get back to what you're hired to do.
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:10 PM on October 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:10 PM on October 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
Your best bet may be to identify a clear organisational need, for which there is a budgeted role, that is a great match for your primary skill set. Now that Debbie’s project is well established, you would love to fill that role, it aligns with x development goals. This may not be your old project. Your work with Debbie could be reallocated as follows.
Your organisation may decide that not all needs are equally important even if there is a budget and that the project with Debbie is the more important one. If you are told that your new, much more complex role is the new permanent role, you do have a jump off point for the pay discussion. If there is any chance to get more money whilst you search for a new job absolutely negotiate for that, even if it doesn’t solve the underlying problem.
Go into the meeting with the expectation that your boss may listen but not make changes. Having low expectations and a positive surprise is better than the other way round. It may be that the organisation has decided to make significant changes, they know and accept change makes some people unhappy and causes them to look for a new job and you don’t know what goals you boss was given.
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:33 PM on October 20, 2019
Your organisation may decide that not all needs are equally important even if there is a budget and that the project with Debbie is the more important one. If you are told that your new, much more complex role is the new permanent role, you do have a jump off point for the pay discussion. If there is any chance to get more money whilst you search for a new job absolutely negotiate for that, even if it doesn’t solve the underlying problem.
Go into the meeting with the expectation that your boss may listen but not make changes. Having low expectations and a positive surprise is better than the other way round. It may be that the organisation has decided to make significant changes, they know and accept change makes some people unhappy and causes them to look for a new job and you don’t know what goals you boss was given.
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:33 PM on October 20, 2019
I feel like you maybe didn't absorb a lot of the input from last time ("keep your head down"), but maybe that input didn't take into account how untenable the situation was for you.
Your workplace seems like a complete shitshow, to be honest. Every time I try to come up with a plan, it involves unlikely-to-succeed suggestions. I think the suggestions above to campaign for a shift in project is the best.
Going up against Debbie is extremely risky. If you feel you must, here's one way to possibly word it.n "I'd like your advice on my relationship with Debbie. I know you've known her for many years. I find the way that she treats me to be fairly distracting from my work. On Date she called me a [read from notes]. On Date she said [direct quote read from a separate sheet of paper]. And yesterday, she [XYZ]. Is there something I should be doing differently? If not, is it possible to reduce the amount that I work with her?"
Is Debbie's treatment of you arguably harassment (based on race, gender, age, disability, or other protected characteristic; severe or pervasive)? Is she calling you an idiot or a dinosaur, for example, or treating you differently from others?
posted by salvia at 1:50 PM on October 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
Your workplace seems like a complete shitshow, to be honest. Every time I try to come up with a plan, it involves unlikely-to-succeed suggestions. I think the suggestions above to campaign for a shift in project is the best.
Going up against Debbie is extremely risky. If you feel you must, here's one way to possibly word it.n "I'd like your advice on my relationship with Debbie. I know you've known her for many years. I find the way that she treats me to be fairly distracting from my work. On Date she called me a [read from notes]. On Date she said [direct quote read from a separate sheet of paper]. And yesterday, she [XYZ]. Is there something I should be doing differently? If not, is it possible to reduce the amount that I work with her?"
Is Debbie's treatment of you arguably harassment (based on race, gender, age, disability, or other protected characteristic; severe or pervasive)? Is she calling you an idiot or a dinosaur, for example, or treating you differently from others?
posted by salvia at 1:50 PM on October 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Is Debbie's treatment of you arguably harassment (based on race, gender, age, disability, or other protected characteristic; severe or pervasive)? Is she calling you an idiot or a dinosaur, for example, or treating you differently from others?
So far, it seems like her treatment of all employees are the same. They think she's intimidating, she's firm and no-nonsense about things, she has her mind set firmly on deadlines without considering existing workloads, and she keeps dumping more and more work on us without any regard. She presents a chaotic front. As for us, specifically, she hasn't called me any names, and this doesn't come across as harassment at all, but rather, nitpicky and sometimes she kind of "twists things". For example, as part of a project, she asked me to email someone. I did, and CC'd her, but then she IMed me and said I shouldn't have emailed that person, because that person was her person of contact. I explained I was just doing what was asked, and she was like "oh, okay." She seems all over the place. She also had accused me of not putting things on Teamwork, despite me doing it, then "oops-ing" when I sent her the link(s) to Teamwork's project task to prove it. Kind of like she keeps assuming I haven't done what I was supposed to, kind of a "jump the gun" approach. She also keeps saying if I don't keep up, the team will collapse. Putting that stuff all on my shoulders. I think she treats everyone pretty much equally, but I do feel I get the burnt of it, as I work directly with her.
Just to be clear, being firm, data-driven, even no-nonsense about stuff can be a good thing! It's just that her overall approach comes across as intimidating, and I know I'm not alone in that. Her approach is mixed, kind of like a "Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde" style, and she's moody. It's toxic to me because I'm very sensitive, I'm a people-pleaser and perfectionist, and I feel like I can't keep up with her.
She, and my boss, began working at my organization, coming from outside, around eight months ago; the rest of us has been at the organization for 2+ years.
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 4:30 PM on October 20, 2019
So far, it seems like her treatment of all employees are the same. They think she's intimidating, she's firm and no-nonsense about things, she has her mind set firmly on deadlines without considering existing workloads, and she keeps dumping more and more work on us without any regard. She presents a chaotic front. As for us, specifically, she hasn't called me any names, and this doesn't come across as harassment at all, but rather, nitpicky and sometimes she kind of "twists things". For example, as part of a project, she asked me to email someone. I did, and CC'd her, but then she IMed me and said I shouldn't have emailed that person, because that person was her person of contact. I explained I was just doing what was asked, and she was like "oh, okay." She seems all over the place. She also had accused me of not putting things on Teamwork, despite me doing it, then "oops-ing" when I sent her the link(s) to Teamwork's project task to prove it. Kind of like she keeps assuming I haven't done what I was supposed to, kind of a "jump the gun" approach. She also keeps saying if I don't keep up, the team will collapse. Putting that stuff all on my shoulders. I think she treats everyone pretty much equally, but I do feel I get the burnt of it, as I work directly with her.
Just to be clear, being firm, data-driven, even no-nonsense about stuff can be a good thing! It's just that her overall approach comes across as intimidating, and I know I'm not alone in that. Her approach is mixed, kind of like a "Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde" style, and she's moody. It's toxic to me because I'm very sensitive, I'm a people-pleaser and perfectionist, and I feel like I can't keep up with her.
She, and my boss, began working at my organization, coming from outside, around eight months ago; the rest of us has been at the organization for 2+ years.
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 4:30 PM on October 20, 2019
Are you ready to leave if your job duties don’t change? Because that’s really the only negotiating power you have, besides making the case that your writing project is more essential than managing this new 5-projects-to-20 projects workload.
Your organization is faltering and your boss has brought Debbie in to clean things up. If you hadn’t already had a situation where you spent your work capital on fingering someone else’s work style as a problem for you, you might have that card to play. But if this is your second pass at it, and your boss trusts Debbie (which is clear), the best thing to do is focus on getting out of the supporting Debbie role, only. And in order to do that, you’re going to have to spend a lot of capital on “I know you want me to do x but I think y is more important.” But you will have to be clear on what happens if the answer is no.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:28 PM on October 20, 2019
Your organization is faltering and your boss has brought Debbie in to clean things up. If you hadn’t already had a situation where you spent your work capital on fingering someone else’s work style as a problem for you, you might have that card to play. But if this is your second pass at it, and your boss trusts Debbie (which is clear), the best thing to do is focus on getting out of the supporting Debbie role, only. And in order to do that, you’re going to have to spend a lot of capital on “I know you want me to do x but I think y is more important.” But you will have to be clear on what happens if the answer is no.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:28 PM on October 20, 2019
She isn't toxic. It's good that you're not considering using that word, but the whole concept is off. She's not poisonous and there may or may not even be anything wrong with her, you are just not capable of working well or productively under her management. that is objectively true. you can take a shot at saying it, and hope that your boss will decide Debbie is the one who needs to adjust, rather than you.
I'm not sure there is any safe way to say that you're not the only one who feels this way, unless there are people who feel so strongly they're willing to join you in the meeting or at least give you permission to name them (maybe there are?) You could maybe imply it in the way you say that Debbie's management style is a hindrance to productivity across the board, although you will be asked to give examples and this will be tricky if you haven't checked with people before citing their experiences.
this is all risky and might end in your departure from the company. you are essentially refusing to do the job that you have been asked to do. It IS possible to do this and survive, but everything has to go your way and the right people have to be on your side. pre-planning alone can't guarantee it.
as to d): either/or propositions have always gone badly for me in boss negotiations, no matter how well I propose them. It is very fair that EITHER you get paid a lot more for putting up with this stressful situation and work, OR you keep your current salary and get rid of the stress. but you can't force a choice on someone who has the power to say No to both options. I think you have to choose which thing is most important to you and put all your fight behind it (rearranging the management structure or getting more money.) I guess an exception might be if you could mount a convincing argument that you should replace Debbie, but that won't work if you don't want it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:42 PM on October 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure there is any safe way to say that you're not the only one who feels this way, unless there are people who feel so strongly they're willing to join you in the meeting or at least give you permission to name them (maybe there are?) You could maybe imply it in the way you say that Debbie's management style is a hindrance to productivity across the board, although you will be asked to give examples and this will be tricky if you haven't checked with people before citing their experiences.
this is all risky and might end in your departure from the company. you are essentially refusing to do the job that you have been asked to do. It IS possible to do this and survive, but everything has to go your way and the right people have to be on your side. pre-planning alone can't guarantee it.
as to d): either/or propositions have always gone badly for me in boss negotiations, no matter how well I propose them. It is very fair that EITHER you get paid a lot more for putting up with this stressful situation and work, OR you keep your current salary and get rid of the stress. but you can't force a choice on someone who has the power to say No to both options. I think you have to choose which thing is most important to you and put all your fight behind it (rearranging the management structure or getting more money.) I guess an exception might be if you could mount a convincing argument that you should replace Debbie, but that won't work if you don't want it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:42 PM on October 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
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