Long, convoluted question about how to deal with my jagoff Father-in-Law
December 3, 2018 8:54 AM Subscribe
My father-in-law is repeatedly talking bad about me behind my back. I have proof. But I don't want to harm my godmother, who he is close to.
How should I respond?
Copious details on interpersonal relationships after the fold...
FATHER-IN-LAW:
My father-in-law and I have long had a contentious relationship. He is one of those people who takes advantage of everyone and everything. I don't like the man at all, to be perfectly honest. I have never told him off, though, even when he berates and verbally abuses my wife (his daughter).
She describes him growing up as a rageaholic as well as bipolar. He would go through manic phases buying everything he saw, then depressive phases where he'd throw plates at walls for my wife's mom spending too much money (or for putting a salad fork on the table instead of a dinner fork).
Suffice it to say this isn't a nice guy, but my wife and I keep mostly polite relations with him. I haven't gone to his house for the holidays though for many, many years as that much togetherness breeds contempt.
MY GODMOTHER
The other person in play here is my Godmother.
Basically you could consider her my Grandmother, though there's no blood relation.
She's 98-years-old and a widow. She helped my parents raise me and been a major part of my life for my entire life. When my Godfather passed away, my Godmother was already unable to drive, hard of hearing, etc. After two years of taking care of her while she lived in her own home (which was becoming less and less cared for) we had her move in with us in a house that has two master suites. She has her own bedroom, living room, and den on the first floor of our house, and we've lived this way for 7 years now.
Being 98 my Godmother has numerous doctor's appointments, as well as her weekly hair appointment, etc. My wife and I both have full time jobs (AND my mother has Stage 4 cancer so she also has a lot of doctor's appointments I have to take her to) so for the past 10 years my father-in-law has helped my Godmother by taking her to her appointments.
In exchange my Godmother buys my father-in-law and his wife (NOT my wife's mother) extravagant gifts and pays for a meal out with them every time they take her somewhere. (Often they bring along guests my Godmother doesn't like and make my Godmother pay for those meals as well...like I said, he takes advantage of everything)
My godmother likes my Father-in-law a lot and keeps saying things like "he's awfully good to me". She also enjoys some outings with him just on various area trips he makes, as it gets her out of the house (which my busy life does not allow, ESPECIALLY during weekdays).
Also, when my wife and I travel, my father-in-law boards my godmother for those few days.
PRECIPITATING EVENT
So we got a Ring doorbell. Love it. My wife even told her dad about this new doorbell that captures video and audio.
Well, three times in a row my father-in-law has come to pick up my Godmother for an appointment, and every single time my Ring records him talking bad about me.
The first time he called me a lazy bum. (I actually work TWO jobs and excel at both so I can't see "lazy")
The second time he complained about the way I keep my house. We actually just had it cleaned and organized and he said "It'll be back the way it was before you know it."
The third time he said "These assholes [meaning my wife and I] don't know how to park in a driveway".
So every single time he gets with my Godmother he badmouths me to her. I have no reason to believe this is new behavior.
So the question is--what do I do? I'm infuriated at the things he's saying about me, and he has no right to continue to say those things. By the same token, my Godmother likes him and relies on him to take her to those appointments.
I want to tell him off, but afraid of what would happen to my Godmother if I did.(My wife is perfectly fine with a "scorched Earth" policy given his abhorrent treatment of her for her entire life, which continues to this day with the "asshole" parking comment)
It's certain that once my Godmother passes we will never deal with this man again.
But I ask the collective -- how do I respond to these insults now, while she's still alive?
FATHER-IN-LAW:
My father-in-law and I have long had a contentious relationship. He is one of those people who takes advantage of everyone and everything. I don't like the man at all, to be perfectly honest. I have never told him off, though, even when he berates and verbally abuses my wife (his daughter).
She describes him growing up as a rageaholic as well as bipolar. He would go through manic phases buying everything he saw, then depressive phases where he'd throw plates at walls for my wife's mom spending too much money (or for putting a salad fork on the table instead of a dinner fork).
Suffice it to say this isn't a nice guy, but my wife and I keep mostly polite relations with him. I haven't gone to his house for the holidays though for many, many years as that much togetherness breeds contempt.
MY GODMOTHER
The other person in play here is my Godmother.
Basically you could consider her my Grandmother, though there's no blood relation.
She's 98-years-old and a widow. She helped my parents raise me and been a major part of my life for my entire life. When my Godfather passed away, my Godmother was already unable to drive, hard of hearing, etc. After two years of taking care of her while she lived in her own home (which was becoming less and less cared for) we had her move in with us in a house that has two master suites. She has her own bedroom, living room, and den on the first floor of our house, and we've lived this way for 7 years now.
Being 98 my Godmother has numerous doctor's appointments, as well as her weekly hair appointment, etc. My wife and I both have full time jobs (AND my mother has Stage 4 cancer so she also has a lot of doctor's appointments I have to take her to) so for the past 10 years my father-in-law has helped my Godmother by taking her to her appointments.
In exchange my Godmother buys my father-in-law and his wife (NOT my wife's mother) extravagant gifts and pays for a meal out with them every time they take her somewhere. (Often they bring along guests my Godmother doesn't like and make my Godmother pay for those meals as well...like I said, he takes advantage of everything)
My godmother likes my Father-in-law a lot and keeps saying things like "he's awfully good to me". She also enjoys some outings with him just on various area trips he makes, as it gets her out of the house (which my busy life does not allow, ESPECIALLY during weekdays).
Also, when my wife and I travel, my father-in-law boards my godmother for those few days.
PRECIPITATING EVENT
So we got a Ring doorbell. Love it. My wife even told her dad about this new doorbell that captures video and audio.
Well, three times in a row my father-in-law has come to pick up my Godmother for an appointment, and every single time my Ring records him talking bad about me.
The first time he called me a lazy bum. (I actually work TWO jobs and excel at both so I can't see "lazy")
The second time he complained about the way I keep my house. We actually just had it cleaned and organized and he said "It'll be back the way it was before you know it."
The third time he said "These assholes [meaning my wife and I] don't know how to park in a driveway".
So every single time he gets with my Godmother he badmouths me to her. I have no reason to believe this is new behavior.
So the question is--what do I do? I'm infuriated at the things he's saying about me, and he has no right to continue to say those things. By the same token, my Godmother likes him and relies on him to take her to those appointments.
I want to tell him off, but afraid of what would happen to my Godmother if I did.(My wife is perfectly fine with a "scorched Earth" policy given his abhorrent treatment of her for her entire life, which continues to this day with the "asshole" parking comment)
It's certain that once my Godmother passes we will never deal with this man again.
But I ask the collective -- how do I respond to these insults now, while she's still alive?
First - I'm sorry to hear all of this. You and your wife are carrying a tremendous load.
There's an expression I've seen on twitter a few times recently: 'living rent free in your head'...that seems to be what this man is doing. So, evict him. You and your wife are doing heroic work, caring for your Godmother like this. If he's a much of an asshole as you've described, then this sort of behavior seems to be par for the course. Nothing he's said is true, and even if any of it was true, none of it sounds particularly helpful or necessary.
My advice would be to release yourself from any emotional bondage to this guy. As you've said - the timeline for this is likely to be limited. Focus on your wife, godmother and mother, day by day, and try not to give any of your internal oxygen to this guy's weirdness.
posted by jquinby at 9:04 AM on December 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
There's an expression I've seen on twitter a few times recently: 'living rent free in your head'...that seems to be what this man is doing. So, evict him. You and your wife are doing heroic work, caring for your Godmother like this. If he's a much of an asshole as you've described, then this sort of behavior seems to be par for the course. Nothing he's said is true, and even if any of it was true, none of it sounds particularly helpful or necessary.
My advice would be to release yourself from any emotional bondage to this guy. As you've said - the timeline for this is likely to be limited. Focus on your wife, godmother and mother, day by day, and try not to give any of your internal oxygen to this guy's weirdness.
posted by jquinby at 9:04 AM on December 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
I would try to ignore the things that you learned via unintentional surveillance but crack down hard on anything that happens in person. Lots of people talk shit in "private" but at the end of the day, what you say at those times doesn't matter but how he treats you and your wife in person does.
My experience with this kind of situation is that my family dynamics were set up to enable my toxic person by conflict averse family members, *but* that everyone else was sick of his shit as well, so people backed me up or at least stayed out of it, when I stood up for myself. Families are different, but just because things are set up a certain way doesn't mean that people like the status quo. You might not have their support, but you should not expect that standing up for yourself will damage those relationships.
But ignore the petty behind the back shit talk and save it for the next time he's horrible to you in person. In particular, you should not let him berate your wife, ever again, and anyone who has a problem with you standing up for your wife in that scenario isn't worth anything to you and your family, fairy godmother or not.
posted by Kwine at 9:08 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
My experience with this kind of situation is that my family dynamics were set up to enable my toxic person by conflict averse family members, *but* that everyone else was sick of his shit as well, so people backed me up or at least stayed out of it, when I stood up for myself. Families are different, but just because things are set up a certain way doesn't mean that people like the status quo. You might not have their support, but you should not expect that standing up for yourself will damage those relationships.
But ignore the petty behind the back shit talk and save it for the next time he's horrible to you in person. In particular, you should not let him berate your wife, ever again, and anyone who has a problem with you standing up for your wife in that scenario isn't worth anything to you and your family, fairy godmother or not.
posted by Kwine at 9:08 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Along with the comment above, make sure your Godmother isn’t loaning him money or anything weird like that if at all possible. DEFINITELY make backups of every recorded interaction, even if you never do anything with them.
What is her legal/financial situation like? Is there responsible oversight?
posted by jbenben at 9:08 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
What is her legal/financial situation like? Is there responsible oversight?
posted by jbenben at 9:08 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm really sorry to hear about this jerk! And he is a jerk, and he is taking advantage of you and your godmother.
Can you afford to bring in paid care for your godmother? There are services that provide in-home care for seniors, or you could go the Craigslist route if what you need is someone to take her to the doctor's and hairdresser's (not actual personal care). Put this way - could you replace your FIL at the same level of care he provides without breaking the bank? Sometimes the cheapest way to pay for something is with money. It might be good for your peace of mind to cut FIL out of your life.
And yes, what Jbenben said - make damn sure your FIL isn't taking financial advantage of your godmother. Elder financial abuse is sadly common, and mostly perpetrated by people who have earned the victim's trust.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:11 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Can you afford to bring in paid care for your godmother? There are services that provide in-home care for seniors, or you could go the Craigslist route if what you need is someone to take her to the doctor's and hairdresser's (not actual personal care). Put this way - could you replace your FIL at the same level of care he provides without breaking the bank? Sometimes the cheapest way to pay for something is with money. It might be good for your peace of mind to cut FIL out of your life.
And yes, what Jbenben said - make damn sure your FIL isn't taking financial advantage of your godmother. Elder financial abuse is sadly common, and mostly perpetrated by people who have earned the victim's trust.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:11 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: JBenben,
For 98 years old, she's remarkably mentally acute! She handles all her own finances but, by her request, I usually balance her checkbook for her every month or two. So if there was a lot of outgo to him I'd see it at that point.
But she complains to me about those "freeloaders" he brings along. I know about the extra people eating on her dime because she tells me about it. She also tells me how terrible with money my FIL is. So she's smart enough to see a scam if it's coming.
But she's in the same boat I am--she pays for those extra meals because she doesn't know what else to do, and sees it a small price to pay for the services he provides. But she'd never just hand him the checkbook etc.
posted by arniec at 9:14 AM on December 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
For 98 years old, she's remarkably mentally acute! She handles all her own finances but, by her request, I usually balance her checkbook for her every month or two. So if there was a lot of outgo to him I'd see it at that point.
But she complains to me about those "freeloaders" he brings along. I know about the extra people eating on her dime because she tells me about it. She also tells me how terrible with money my FIL is. So she's smart enough to see a scam if it's coming.
But she's in the same boat I am--she pays for those extra meals because she doesn't know what else to do, and sees it a small price to pay for the services he provides. But she'd never just hand him the checkbook etc.
posted by arniec at 9:14 AM on December 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
If you really can't stand this guy to the point that you refuse to spend holidays with him, it's kind of odd to be asking him to ferry your godmother to appointments and host her at his place when you go on vacations. It's a huge ask and responsibility to take care of someone who is nearly one hundred years old. It's not really any of your business if your godmother wants to be classy and treat him to lunch and gifts as a way to thank him for doing that. Your godmother probably realizes that this person is not really related to her or obligated to do these things in the way you are. I'm sure it's a gigantic help to you that he is willing to do this and your godmother seems to genuinely enjoy his company, so I would only suggest scrapping this arrangement and hiring professional help instead if you really can't bring yourself to stop recording and listening to their conversations in your home.
posted by cakelite at 9:19 AM on December 3, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 9:19 AM on December 3, 2018 [16 favorites]
Fire your jagoff father-in-law and hire someone else to take your godmother out. Your f-i-l is a toxic freeloader and if you can afford to outsource this, DO IT. Otherwise, the mutterings that your doorbell captures are just stupid things said by a stupid guy.
posted by 41swans at 9:21 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by 41swans at 9:21 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
Does your Godmother like him aside from the help? If so, that should be a factor-- she should be able to choose who she spends her time with. Would it upset her personally if you cut him off?
You don't like him and he doesn't like you. However, you seem like a nice person and he seems like a major a-hole. It's never great to hear someone talking smack, but consider the source, as they say.
posted by kapers at 9:25 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
You don't like him and he doesn't like you. However, you seem like a nice person and he seems like a major a-hole. It's never great to hear someone talking smack, but consider the source, as they say.
posted by kapers at 9:25 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
The standard advice to divorced parents is never badmouth the other parent, no matter what s/he says about you. Not that your godmother is a child, but she's someone who needs assistance from both you and your father-in-law.
The next time she complains about him, ask her if it bothers her enough to get someone else to assist her. (If she does, you may be able to get references through the Illinois Department on Aging.) If she doesn't, then that's her choice, and you take the high road, engaging with him as necessary, and ignoring him as much as possible otherwise.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 9:27 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
The next time she complains about him, ask her if it bothers her enough to get someone else to assist her. (If she does, you may be able to get references through the Illinois Department on Aging.) If she doesn't, then that's her choice, and you take the high road, engaging with him as necessary, and ignoring him as much as possible otherwise.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 9:27 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
I dunno ... if the only thing your godmother doesn't like about him is that he brings along freeloaders to lunch (which, yes, is totally shitty and I'm amazed these freeloaders aren't too embarrassed to let an elderly stranger pay for their meal), I would be reluctant to rock the boat at this point. The comments he's making are crappy but it doesn't sound like it's affected the way your godmother sees you? And you yourself say that you don't have time to be with her during the weekdays as much as you'd like.
If she likes him so much and he is a source of socialization as well as care/rides, then I think you would be kind to consider the (apparently positive) impact he has on her quality of life. Hiring a health care worker to care for her would help resolve your concerns about this jag, but I don't think it would be doing your godmother a favor. Can you hold your nose, stop listening to his petty comments on your doorbell recordings, and let your godmother continue to have the relationship she has with this person she feels is "awfully good" to her?
posted by DingoMutt at 9:30 AM on December 3, 2018 [17 favorites]
If she likes him so much and he is a source of socialization as well as care/rides, then I think you would be kind to consider the (apparently positive) impact he has on her quality of life. Hiring a health care worker to care for her would help resolve your concerns about this jag, but I don't think it would be doing your godmother a favor. Can you hold your nose, stop listening to his petty comments on your doorbell recordings, and let your godmother continue to have the relationship she has with this person she feels is "awfully good" to her?
posted by DingoMutt at 9:30 AM on December 3, 2018 [17 favorites]
Ten years of working around your schedule to take an unrelated elderly lady to regular appointments during the week, and she enjoys his company, and he cares for her in his home so you don't have to find respite care during holidays? If the cost of this is a few lunches for freeloaders and gifts, that seems ... cheap, to me. Is it possible his badmouthing may come from resenting doing this work?
Your alternatives would be paid care (which can be expensive and of variable quality). Pricing it out might make the cost of the lunches more palatable. And regarding his badmouthing - it sounds like it's not at you directly, so other than mentioning the camera again, you may decide it's a cost of doing business with this man for the next few years.
posted by quercus23 at 9:33 AM on December 3, 2018 [16 favorites]
Your alternatives would be paid care (which can be expensive and of variable quality). Pricing it out might make the cost of the lunches more palatable. And regarding his badmouthing - it sounds like it's not at you directly, so other than mentioning the camera again, you may decide it's a cost of doing business with this man for the next few years.
posted by quercus23 at 9:33 AM on December 3, 2018 [16 favorites]
What does your godmother want? It seems like you are making assumptions for her. Maybe she’s good with finding someone else to help her, and then you don’t even have an issue. I would start there.
posted by MountainDaisy at 9:40 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by MountainDaisy at 9:40 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wow, I had two directly contradictory thoughts while reading this.
The first was "Maybe she doesn't really think he's good to her, maybe she believes that her continued well-being is dependent on him, and she therefore is unwilling to challenge him."
But the second was "All of those comments could stem from him feeling unrecognized by you in the care he gives her or that you aren't doing your share - he thinks you're lazy for not coming to get her the way he does, he doesn't like seeing her live in what he perceives as a messy house, he is frustrated that knowing he was coming to get her you didn't park in a way to make that more convenient for one or both of them."
I don't know which, if either, is right ... maybe you do?
posted by solotoro at 9:43 AM on December 3, 2018 [13 favorites]
The first was "Maybe she doesn't really think he's good to her, maybe she believes that her continued well-being is dependent on him, and she therefore is unwilling to challenge him."
But the second was "All of those comments could stem from him feeling unrecognized by you in the care he gives her or that you aren't doing your share - he thinks you're lazy for not coming to get her the way he does, he doesn't like seeing her live in what he perceives as a messy house, he is frustrated that knowing he was coming to get her you didn't park in a way to make that more convenient for one or both of them."
I don't know which, if either, is right ... maybe you do?
posted by solotoro at 9:43 AM on December 3, 2018 [13 favorites]
Dear Godmother might be paying more in meals with FIL and freeloaders than she'd pay in ride-shares to appointments. Maybe track those expenses for a month? If you save money by going with ride-shares, the only other tie is when you travel... can a niece or nephew house-sit with her?
@solotoro makes some good points; maybe try showered FIL with kindness for a bit?
Otherwise, FIL is a shitty little person who's jealous of you and tries to tear you down to build himself up. So what, he can't touch you. Let him rant and rave; he's just kicking your shins, and can't deliver a body blow to hurt you. Take the high road and ignore him.
posted by at at 10:12 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
@solotoro makes some good points; maybe try showered FIL with kindness for a bit?
Otherwise, FIL is a shitty little person who's jealous of you and tries to tear you down to build himself up. So what, he can't touch you. Let him rant and rave; he's just kicking your shins, and can't deliver a body blow to hurt you. Take the high road and ignore him.
posted by at at 10:12 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Well, three times in a row my father-in-law has come to pick up my Godmother for an appointment, and every single time my Ring records him talking bad about me.
I recently got one of these doorbells, and due to the location of my front porch, the motion sensor picks up a lot of video clips. I don't review them all, because "garbage truck goes by on Friday" is obvious. I usually mass delete them when I get around to it.
I'm guessing you're looking at the clips where the doorbell was rung. You don't have to watch them! If it's a time when you know it was him, delete the clip without viewing. If you start watching and it's him, close it and delete. He knows what the doorbell does, he knows you can view the clips, and he's doing this to bug you. There's absolutely nothing to gain from watching these. No one who he is speaking to believes any of this crap.
posted by mikeh at 10:15 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Making a 98-year old pay for the unwanted guests he keeps bringing sounds a lot like financial Elder Abuse.
F-i-L should be replaced by an actual loving eldercare professional—preferably one who was raised by their loving grandmother.
posted by blueberry at 10:25 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
F-i-L should be replaced by an actual loving eldercare professional—preferably one who was raised by their loving grandmother.
posted by blueberry at 10:25 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
If it were me I would put a big note above the doorbell that says "this is a recorder - when you talk shit about me in front of it, I CAN HEAR YOU" and leave it at that. He probably doesn't care all that much what you think - you should return the favor.
posted by lyssabee at 11:03 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lyssabee at 11:03 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
What does your godmother say in response? Does she agree? Politely nod her head? Argue on your behalf? If she does not agree with him or does not get caught up in his bs, I would let it be. If she is agreeing, I would call him out. Otherwise, let your godmother enjoy the last years of her life.
posted by AugustWest at 11:34 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by AugustWest at 11:34 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm my elderly mom's primary caregiver, but while I'm at work I have a sibling looking after her. And yes, that makes for fraught situations, especially since my sibling has issues, just like your FIL.
But I chose family over hiring a stranger for three big reasons:
1. Cost. My sibling is a lot cheaper than hiring a caregiver.
2. Familiarity. My mom hates having a caregiver at all, but she's more comfortable with someone she knows. She'd be desperately unhappy with a stranger.
3. Trust. I know people who became care providers not because it was a calling, but because they needed a job fast, and then quickly found out how easy it is to charm a lonely old person into giving them stuff. Also, how easy it is to outright steal when you're in that position of trust. I also know people who've been swindled by their caregivers. Yes, mistreatment and abuse can happen with family members, too, but better the devil I know than the devil I don't.
That's your situation, too: do you want to deal with the problematic person you know, or do you want to take a chance on a stranger? Also keep in mind that hiring a caregiver often isn't for the long term; there's huge turnover, so there's a good chance you'd be interviewing and introducing more than one new person to look after your godmother.
You might want to initiate a cautious conversation with your godmother, find out if she really likes him as much as she seems to, or if she's putting the best face on it because she thinks she has no choice. If she likes him and he appears to have done her no harm, might be best to grit your teeth and let this continue. And think on this: if he is not taking advantage of her, he is doing her and you a genuine good deed. Even assholes can show a streak of humanity. Perhaps this is his?
posted by Lunaloon at 12:22 PM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
But I chose family over hiring a stranger for three big reasons:
1. Cost. My sibling is a lot cheaper than hiring a caregiver.
2. Familiarity. My mom hates having a caregiver at all, but she's more comfortable with someone she knows. She'd be desperately unhappy with a stranger.
3. Trust. I know people who became care providers not because it was a calling, but because they needed a job fast, and then quickly found out how easy it is to charm a lonely old person into giving them stuff. Also, how easy it is to outright steal when you're in that position of trust. I also know people who've been swindled by their caregivers. Yes, mistreatment and abuse can happen with family members, too, but better the devil I know than the devil I don't.
That's your situation, too: do you want to deal with the problematic person you know, or do you want to take a chance on a stranger? Also keep in mind that hiring a caregiver often isn't for the long term; there's huge turnover, so there's a good chance you'd be interviewing and introducing more than one new person to look after your godmother.
You might want to initiate a cautious conversation with your godmother, find out if she really likes him as much as she seems to, or if she's putting the best face on it because she thinks she has no choice. If she likes him and he appears to have done her no harm, might be best to grit your teeth and let this continue. And think on this: if he is not taking advantage of her, he is doing her and you a genuine good deed. Even assholes can show a streak of humanity. Perhaps this is his?
posted by Lunaloon at 12:22 PM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
he has no right to continue to say those things
he has every right! these aren't factual false allegations, they are just insults. he calls you a lazy bum, so you don't like him and call him choice names of your own in private. sure, that makes sense. but: he calls you a lazy bum, so you set out to prove it objectively untrue by listing for us the things that make you industrious? that does not make sense. the logic of it doesn't matter.
you can't really respond to an insult you found out about through eavesdropping if he didn't come and say it to your face. or: you can, you can do whatever you want, but you will come off as the the aggressor and he will not recognize himself as the one at fault. maybe since your wife told him about the doorbell, you think he's saying this stuff deliberately "to" you, knowing you're always listening? but maybe that never occurred to him.
if you can't listen in on his private mutterings without getting angry about them, don't.
you and especially your wife don't have to forgive his past abuse or take any more of it. but this particular issue is not part of that. you're completely free to ignore it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:23 PM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
he has every right! these aren't factual false allegations, they are just insults. he calls you a lazy bum, so you don't like him and call him choice names of your own in private. sure, that makes sense. but: he calls you a lazy bum, so you set out to prove it objectively untrue by listing for us the things that make you industrious? that does not make sense. the logic of it doesn't matter.
you can't really respond to an insult you found out about through eavesdropping if he didn't come and say it to your face. or: you can, you can do whatever you want, but you will come off as the the aggressor and he will not recognize himself as the one at fault. maybe since your wife told him about the doorbell, you think he's saying this stuff deliberately "to" you, knowing you're always listening? but maybe that never occurred to him.
if you can't listen in on his private mutterings without getting angry about them, don't.
you and especially your wife don't have to forgive his past abuse or take any more of it. but this particular issue is not part of that. you're completely free to ignore it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:23 PM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry your FIL is a dick. But he is, and to start clutching your pearls when a known dick is a dick about you seems a little like you're looking for a reason to scorch the Earth here.
And really, this isn't about you. You are not 98; most of the people you've ever known are not dead; you are not almost completely dependent on other people to help you manage your day to day living. It's about your godmother, who's relationship with her, when you get down to it, has nothing to do with you.
So ask her. Ask her if, all things being equal, she would prefer you all employ an assistant for a few hours a week rather than depending on FIL to help her live her life at the cost of expensive and uncomfortable meals. Show her that over the last X months, she's spent Y dollars thanking FIL, and for this amount of money it would be possible to get her an assistant to help her run doctor and other errands.
(And for what it's worth, for this sort of thing I would 100% look to my local primary school and parenting groups for a stay-at-home parent looking to earn some extra money before 3 PM. Local errands like doctors, pharmacies, groceries and the like are very much in this wheelhouse. I'd offer a flat fee plus mileage.)
posted by DarlingBri at 1:12 PM on December 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
And really, this isn't about you. You are not 98; most of the people you've ever known are not dead; you are not almost completely dependent on other people to help you manage your day to day living. It's about your godmother, who's relationship with her, when you get down to it, has nothing to do with you.
So ask her. Ask her if, all things being equal, she would prefer you all employ an assistant for a few hours a week rather than depending on FIL to help her live her life at the cost of expensive and uncomfortable meals. Show her that over the last X months, she's spent Y dollars thanking FIL, and for this amount of money it would be possible to get her an assistant to help her run doctor and other errands.
(And for what it's worth, for this sort of thing I would 100% look to my local primary school and parenting groups for a stay-at-home parent looking to earn some extra money before 3 PM. Local errands like doctors, pharmacies, groceries and the like are very much in this wheelhouse. I'd offer a flat fee plus mileage.)
posted by DarlingBri at 1:12 PM on December 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
If he's treating her well, and sounds like he has been for 10 years, I'd not pay attention to those comments. Some gifts and lunches, even with a few extra people, seem a small price to pay for the level of care he's been providing. Does he get other compensation? Like cash or gas money, money for his time? Because that's doing a lot of stuff for a few meals and some presents.
If you had never seen or heard those comments, what would you be doing right now? It sounds like you have a lot on your plate with your mother (very sorry to hear about that, it sucks), so be sure your stress level isn't so high that you're willing to mess up an otherwise beneficial arrangement due to someone's snide comments. My FIL was good with people, but he was known to make such comments behind other people's backs, well, because he was old and crotchety.
As long as he's not getting into her checkbook and/or her will and things like power of attorney, it seems a small price to pay for the level of care that you would have gotten elsewhere. Been there, done that, with paid caretakers. You might just have to let this slide, as long as your godmother thinks it's okay, even the cost of a few extra meals might be minute in comparison to hiring a full-time caregiver to do these things (and as people mentioned, a stranger). I'd try to not watch the videos, and focus on your mom instead, as long as you have no other evidence of mistreatment, and seems like he's been very good to her? You know it's not forever, right?
I'd personally swallow my pride and indignation and realize he might just have a habit of saying stuff like that about everyone, not just you. He can't be all bad, if he's been taking care of her for that long, right? Let him have his comments, and let your godmother have her outings, and don't worry about the rest, since you keep an eye on her checkbook anyway. It's a small price to pay for her happiness, unless she tells you otherwise.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 1:26 PM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you had never seen or heard those comments, what would you be doing right now? It sounds like you have a lot on your plate with your mother (very sorry to hear about that, it sucks), so be sure your stress level isn't so high that you're willing to mess up an otherwise beneficial arrangement due to someone's snide comments. My FIL was good with people, but he was known to make such comments behind other people's backs, well, because he was old and crotchety.
As long as he's not getting into her checkbook and/or her will and things like power of attorney, it seems a small price to pay for the level of care that you would have gotten elsewhere. Been there, done that, with paid caretakers. You might just have to let this slide, as long as your godmother thinks it's okay, even the cost of a few extra meals might be minute in comparison to hiring a full-time caregiver to do these things (and as people mentioned, a stranger). I'd try to not watch the videos, and focus on your mom instead, as long as you have no other evidence of mistreatment, and seems like he's been very good to her? You know it's not forever, right?
I'd personally swallow my pride and indignation and realize he might just have a habit of saying stuff like that about everyone, not just you. He can't be all bad, if he's been taking care of her for that long, right? Let him have his comments, and let your godmother have her outings, and don't worry about the rest, since you keep an eye on her checkbook anyway. It's a small price to pay for her happiness, unless she tells you otherwise.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 1:26 PM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wonder if you and your godmother could pay someone, like maybe a college student or someone with a part-time schedule, or maybe a younger retiree, to bring her to appointments and spend some time with her? It sounds like she values the social interactions to an extent, though she dislikes the freeloaders (understandably!). I'm thinking someone your godmother actually likes and enjoys chatting with, but where there's a clearer employee-employer relationship, so she doesn't feel like she needs to buy them an expensive dinner in exchange for their time.
Given that she has sometimes stayed with your father-in-law, maybe the retiree option would make the most sense?
Depending on how much she's spending on those gifts and meals, it could mean that she ends up spending less. Or maybe you both could chip in? Good luck. This sounds really stressful.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:45 PM on December 3, 2018
Given that she has sometimes stayed with your father-in-law, maybe the retiree option would make the most sense?
Depending on how much she's spending on those gifts and meals, it could mean that she ends up spending less. Or maybe you both could chip in? Good luck. This sounds really stressful.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:45 PM on December 3, 2018
Also, have you told your godmother what you saw, and how she feels about it? It might bother her, too.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:45 PM on December 3, 2018
posted by bluedaisy at 1:45 PM on December 3, 2018
Honestly, who cares? You knew he was a dick for years and years before - what has changed now? Nothing. You knew he didn't really like you that much right? And he knows you're probably not crazy about him. So who cares what he voices in private when he thinks no one can hear.
But also, this is a dick who has - for nothing more than some free lunches - been taking your godmother to appointments, looking after her on holidays etc for like 10 years. It pains me to say it, and you to no doubt hear it, but these are not the actions of a dick; or rather, not a total dick. Those are the actions of someone who at least sometimes cares.
Your godmother is 98; it will be very unlikely she will be here in 5 years' time. Meanwhile, you have an arrangement that works for her, your FIL, and until you eavesdropped on him, it worked for you too. Unless you're in "I can't take it anymore!" territory, I'd just grit my teeth and deal with it until your godmother passes.
posted by smoke at 1:59 PM on December 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
But also, this is a dick who has - for nothing more than some free lunches - been taking your godmother to appointments, looking after her on holidays etc for like 10 years. It pains me to say it, and you to no doubt hear it, but these are not the actions of a dick; or rather, not a total dick. Those are the actions of someone who at least sometimes cares.
Your godmother is 98; it will be very unlikely she will be here in 5 years' time. Meanwhile, you have an arrangement that works for her, your FIL, and until you eavesdropped on him, it worked for you too. Unless you're in "I can't take it anymore!" territory, I'd just grit my teeth and deal with it until your godmother passes.
posted by smoke at 1:59 PM on December 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
My wife even told her dad about this new doorbell that captures video and audio.
He's a known jerk, is he a button pusher too? If that's the case, pretending you never heard it is probably the best way to get back at him.
I take that back. If you could hint you've heard what he said and make it clear his opinion is worthless, that might irritate him more. Make a joke about something he said ("Man, sometimes I just can't seem to park right!" And walk away laughing like you haven't got a care in the world). But your godmother says she likes the outings and him, so even if you could pull it off it's not a good idea.
If your godmother is the kind of person to say she's happy with something because she doesn't want to cause a fuss, going to her with an alternative mode of transport etc wouldn't be a bad idea. "I found out service X is very reasonable and easy to schedule. I haven't because I wasn't sure if you preferred FIL, but it'd actually be just as easy and cost the same if you want to try it out for a bit."
posted by ghost phoneme at 8:48 PM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
He's a known jerk, is he a button pusher too? If that's the case, pretending you never heard it is probably the best way to get back at him.
I take that back. If you could hint you've heard what he said and make it clear his opinion is worthless, that might irritate him more. Make a joke about something he said ("Man, sometimes I just can't seem to park right!" And walk away laughing like you haven't got a care in the world). But your godmother says she likes the outings and him, so even if you could pull it off it's not a good idea.
If your godmother is the kind of person to say she's happy with something because she doesn't want to cause a fuss, going to her with an alternative mode of transport etc wouldn't be a bad idea. "I found out service X is very reasonable and easy to schedule. I haven't because I wasn't sure if you preferred FIL, but it'd actually be just as easy and cost the same if you want to try it out for a bit."
posted by ghost phoneme at 8:48 PM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
There are a ton of people who can provide rides and social time for kind elderly ladies. In your shoes, I'd find one you trust and drop your FIL like a rock.
posted by Ahniya at 9:07 AM on December 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Ahniya at 9:07 AM on December 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
One of my grandmothers had an asshole relative to help her out in similar ways to this guy, one did not. Based on that experience, I'd lean toward tolerating the father in law unless he is verbally abusing you/your wife (complaining about your parking skills / housekeeping to your doorbell is not verbal abuse). Your godmother likes him well enough, says he is good to her, his freeloading friends aren't great but it sounds like this isn't a serious financial burden. Your godmother is getting out of the house more than weekly and isn't alone when you travel. It sounds like you don't actually have to see him much since you're out when he picks up your godmother. Does thinking of him as a close friend of your roommate vs. family help?
It sounds like anyone you pay will be less flexible than FIL. There is also the potential that anyone else you hire could abuse your godmother, financially or otherwise. My grandma who didn't have an asshole relative to help pretty consistently disliked and mistrusted her aides, and there tends to be a lot of turnover in jobs like that, with a new person every few months. Try to focus on how good he has been to your godmother and what a sad, unhappy man he must be to grump about such trivial things.
posted by momus_window at 10:47 AM on December 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
It sounds like anyone you pay will be less flexible than FIL. There is also the potential that anyone else you hire could abuse your godmother, financially or otherwise. My grandma who didn't have an asshole relative to help pretty consistently disliked and mistrusted her aides, and there tends to be a lot of turnover in jobs like that, with a new person every few months. Try to focus on how good he has been to your godmother and what a sad, unhappy man he must be to grump about such trivial things.
posted by momus_window at 10:47 AM on December 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by heathrowga at 9:01 AM on December 3, 2018 [17 favorites]