Married but interested in younger/beautiful girls
May 4, 2016 8:19 AM Subscribe
I have been married with an older woman for about 4 years and now I have developed interests towards younger girls.
I’ve been married for about 4 years and I have developed some issues with my marriage. Here is the brief history of my past relationships and how I got married. I grew up in a religious family and came to the US to study several years ago.
Because of my religious upbringing and mind barriers I didn’t have many relationships with girls and almost had no physical contact so I didn’t really know women until I met this girl online (from back home). It wasn’t serious at first since I just got out from another online relationship but gradually I became interested. When I got involved emotionally, I found out that she is divorced and one year older than me (I was 32 back then). These two things were big taboos for me culturally. Anyway, I decided to meet her and when I did I fell in love with her. I talked to my family and they strongly opposed the idea of my marriage with her because of those issues. I couldn’t take my mind off of her and couldn’t make any decision either. I decided to forget her… I came back to US and found a job and got involved with a girl who I fell in love with her too fast while she wasn’t ready and then she rejected me….I was heartbroken and miserable and after couple of months I reconnected to my old love. I realized that the mutual love is an important ingredient between two people and her age and past marriage shouldn’t matter…some of my friends encouraged me saying that more mature girl wouldn’t fight for every small matter.
By the time that I decided to marry her, I was 34 and I knew that this is a risky age for getting pregnancy on her side (she was 35) but I decided to get married with her despite the opposition of my family…but things didn’t start easy between me and wife as well. We didn’t formally date before marriage since our relationship was mostly online and long distance and in fact the first day of our marriage was the first date. The first day started with disagreement and small fight and I understood the challenge of relationship and marriage very quickly. Another issue was that, in my mind, I have made big sacrifices ignoring her older age/divorce considering our culture but in her mind she deserved this and there was nothing unusual. We had ups and downs like every other couple but most of issues have been resolved except that she couldn’t get pregnant. Doctors couldn’t find anything specific but they said it may be her age. On the other hand, I started to become very interested in other younger/beautiful girls. Now, I know what woman means and the pleasure of sex.. Sometimes, I wish I could re-marry maybe with a younger girl. Both older/younger girls have similar troubles so why not marrying younger ones? I realized that more mature/older girl doesn’t mean less relationship issues.
So, I felt I made a bad decision marrying her buying all mental troubles and family blaming. Worse than this, whenever, I see my friends marrying younger girls I became very jealous, a feeling which was unknown to me before. Sometimes, these thoughts have affected my sleep waking me in the middle of night.
I enjoy sex with my wife but I am very interested in exploring other women physically as well and I don’t know what to do with this desire being in a committed relationship. On the other hand, she is very interested to stay in this marriage and I don’t want to break her heart because of some of my desires. Also, I cannot talk to her about my feelings about other women since it directly undermines our marriage but I feel this desire is going to be with me for a long time which is painful. Is there any win-win situation for my case?
I’ve been married for about 4 years and I have developed some issues with my marriage. Here is the brief history of my past relationships and how I got married. I grew up in a religious family and came to the US to study several years ago.
Because of my religious upbringing and mind barriers I didn’t have many relationships with girls and almost had no physical contact so I didn’t really know women until I met this girl online (from back home). It wasn’t serious at first since I just got out from another online relationship but gradually I became interested. When I got involved emotionally, I found out that she is divorced and one year older than me (I was 32 back then). These two things were big taboos for me culturally. Anyway, I decided to meet her and when I did I fell in love with her. I talked to my family and they strongly opposed the idea of my marriage with her because of those issues. I couldn’t take my mind off of her and couldn’t make any decision either. I decided to forget her… I came back to US and found a job and got involved with a girl who I fell in love with her too fast while she wasn’t ready and then she rejected me….I was heartbroken and miserable and after couple of months I reconnected to my old love. I realized that the mutual love is an important ingredient between two people and her age and past marriage shouldn’t matter…some of my friends encouraged me saying that more mature girl wouldn’t fight for every small matter.
By the time that I decided to marry her, I was 34 and I knew that this is a risky age for getting pregnancy on her side (she was 35) but I decided to get married with her despite the opposition of my family…but things didn’t start easy between me and wife as well. We didn’t formally date before marriage since our relationship was mostly online and long distance and in fact the first day of our marriage was the first date. The first day started with disagreement and small fight and I understood the challenge of relationship and marriage very quickly. Another issue was that, in my mind, I have made big sacrifices ignoring her older age/divorce considering our culture but in her mind she deserved this and there was nothing unusual. We had ups and downs like every other couple but most of issues have been resolved except that she couldn’t get pregnant. Doctors couldn’t find anything specific but they said it may be her age. On the other hand, I started to become very interested in other younger/beautiful girls. Now, I know what woman means and the pleasure of sex.. Sometimes, I wish I could re-marry maybe with a younger girl. Both older/younger girls have similar troubles so why not marrying younger ones? I realized that more mature/older girl doesn’t mean less relationship issues.
So, I felt I made a bad decision marrying her buying all mental troubles and family blaming. Worse than this, whenever, I see my friends marrying younger girls I became very jealous, a feeling which was unknown to me before. Sometimes, these thoughts have affected my sleep waking me in the middle of night.
I enjoy sex with my wife but I am very interested in exploring other women physically as well and I don’t know what to do with this desire being in a committed relationship. On the other hand, she is very interested to stay in this marriage and I don’t want to break her heart because of some of my desires. Also, I cannot talk to her about my feelings about other women since it directly undermines our marriage but I feel this desire is going to be with me for a long time which is painful. Is there any win-win situation for my case?
She's only a year old than you. And that's only 35. If you consider that older, you probably weren't cut out for marriage, since any woman you marry will be 35 eventually. Therapy.
And just to clarify, when you say young girls, you actually mean women, I hope, right?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:25 AM on May 4, 2016 [111 favorites]
And just to clarify, when you say young girls, you actually mean women, I hope, right?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:25 AM on May 4, 2016 [111 favorites]
If you think you married the wrong person and you don't want to talk it through with her to see if you can find a common ground, then you should get a divorce.
Don't cheat and don't pressure your wife into letting you have a girlfriend on the side. Let her go so she can find someone who loves her and wants to have a future together.
posted by cabingirl at 8:26 AM on May 4, 2016 [35 favorites]
Don't cheat and don't pressure your wife into letting you have a girlfriend on the side. Let her go so she can find someone who loves her and wants to have a future together.
posted by cabingirl at 8:26 AM on May 4, 2016 [35 favorites]
I think therapy would do wonders here.
Otherwise, this does not sound sustainable. If you still love and remain committed to your wife, it is time to broach the prospect of an open marriage. There is no shame in this (unless she has explicitly said this is a non-starter). You never know -- she just might be up for it.
posted by lecorbeau at 8:27 AM on May 4, 2016
Otherwise, this does not sound sustainable. If you still love and remain committed to your wife, it is time to broach the prospect of an open marriage. There is no shame in this (unless she has explicitly said this is a non-starter). You never know -- she just might be up for it.
posted by lecorbeau at 8:27 AM on May 4, 2016
Look. Almost everyone who is married sometimes fantasizes about being with other people. That's just called being human. If you leave your wife and marry a younger woman, guess what? You'll still probably fantasize about being with other people.
It seems like because of cultural values and traditions, you didn't know your wife very well before you married her. That is a very tough way to start out. But moreso, you have always kind of considered her to be "less than" due to her age and prior marriage, and this is literally the most horrible condition possible for starting a relationship short of force.
For these reasons I would say that you should do your wife the REAL favor and leave her.
However; if you think that simply marrying a younger woman under the otherwise identical circumstances (no dating prior to marriage, you having the sense that you're "doing her a favor") is going to solve your problem, I think you will find you're wrong, and will be right back at square 1 in another 3-4 years.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [85 favorites]
It seems like because of cultural values and traditions, you didn't know your wife very well before you married her. That is a very tough way to start out. But moreso, you have always kind of considered her to be "less than" due to her age and prior marriage, and this is literally the most horrible condition possible for starting a relationship short of force.
For these reasons I would say that you should do your wife the REAL favor and leave her.
However; if you think that simply marrying a younger woman under the otherwise identical circumstances (no dating prior to marriage, you having the sense that you're "doing her a favor") is going to solve your problem, I think you will find you're wrong, and will be right back at square 1 in another 3-4 years.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [85 favorites]
She doesn't think it's unusual and that she deserves it because she does. It sounds like you are going to hold her at a disadvantage forever, like you did her a favor, but not her for you. Marriage requires respect and I don't see that here. Did you have your fertility tested? Do everyone a favor and let her go if you can't treat her as an equal.
posted by stormygrey at 8:34 AM on May 4, 2016 [58 favorites]
posted by stormygrey at 8:34 AM on May 4, 2016 [58 favorites]
I can't tell if you keep mentioning the (extremely minor) age difference because you attribute the failure to procreate to your wife's age OR more simply because you didn't really "play the field" before you got married. In other words, are you envious of your friends dating/marrying "younger" women because you wish your wife herself were younger (so she might have more opportunity to bring children into the world with you) OR because you simply want more/different sex?
I have a feeling it is the latter, which isn't a problem with HER age in the least, but more a problem that you were distinctly naive and inexperienced when you got married. I don't recommend asking your wife for an open marriage: it doesn't sound like she has been refusing you sex and you do enjoy it with her.
By the way, younger women have different problems than (slightly) older women; and in a relationship, sometimes the problems that come with younger people are -- like your own - disastrous for their partner. I.e., inexperience can cause HUGE problems. The grass isn't necessarily greener. Don't over-idealise younger women. And don't insult older women.
YOU, my friend, are the main issue here. And if you can't wrap your head around this, perhaps through therapy, then your wife would be better off in the long run if you were to leave her to find someone who respects and truly loves her.
posted by Halo in reverse at 8:37 AM on May 4, 2016 [23 favorites]
I have a feeling it is the latter, which isn't a problem with HER age in the least, but more a problem that you were distinctly naive and inexperienced when you got married. I don't recommend asking your wife for an open marriage: it doesn't sound like she has been refusing you sex and you do enjoy it with her.
By the way, younger women have different problems than (slightly) older women; and in a relationship, sometimes the problems that come with younger people are -- like your own - disastrous for their partner. I.e., inexperience can cause HUGE problems. The grass isn't necessarily greener. Don't over-idealise younger women. And don't insult older women.
YOU, my friend, are the main issue here. And if you can't wrap your head around this, perhaps through therapy, then your wife would be better off in the long run if you were to leave her to find someone who respects and truly loves her.
posted by Halo in reverse at 8:37 AM on May 4, 2016 [23 favorites]
oh yeah definitely seconding that hello, if there's nothing wrong with her, it might be YOU who's shootin' blanks, dude.
Not that she should under any circumstances get pregnant right now anyway.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:37 AM on May 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
Not that she should under any circumstances get pregnant right now anyway.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:37 AM on May 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
Just to clarify:
Ages 0-12 Girl
Ages 13-19 Teenager
Ages 20+ Woman
I opened your question honestly thinking this was a sudden self-discovery of paedophilia. I strongly suggest you start using the correct terminology.
Something you may not have experienced, since I believe you never dated in your 20s from your writing, but happens so often that it's basically a joke/trope is when someone decides to end it with their partner because of all the sexy young people around that they would prefer to date, only to discover that none of them want to be dated. Those attractive young women you have been eyeing are probably interested in dating attractive young men.
posted by Dynex at 8:39 AM on May 4, 2016 [103 favorites]
Ages 0-12 Girl
Ages 13-19 Teenager
Ages 20+ Woman
I opened your question honestly thinking this was a sudden self-discovery of paedophilia. I strongly suggest you start using the correct terminology.
Something you may not have experienced, since I believe you never dated in your 20s from your writing, but happens so often that it's basically a joke/trope is when someone decides to end it with their partner because of all the sexy young people around that they would prefer to date, only to discover that none of them want to be dated. Those attractive young women you have been eyeing are probably interested in dating attractive young men.
posted by Dynex at 8:39 AM on May 4, 2016 [103 favorites]
You made a lifetime commitment to someone you didn't know very well. And once married, you realized that making a lifetime commitment is not easy. Relationships are not easy. They require mutual respect and mutual sacrifice, and a willingness to put the other person's needs before your own.
If you're going to honor this commitment, then start working on your marriage. The issue isn't really that you're attracted to younger women. Very few people are only attracted to their spouse and nobody else. The challenge is to focus your love and attention on your spouse, not on others. Can you do this?
Any woman you are with will have thoughts, opinions, and desires that are not always the same as yours. It doesn't matter how old she is. It's easy to fantasize about other people, but the reality is that all women are human beings and it's not going to be easy with anybody, no matter how young and beautiful they are.
posted by chickenmagazine at 8:42 AM on May 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
If you're going to honor this commitment, then start working on your marriage. The issue isn't really that you're attracted to younger women. Very few people are only attracted to their spouse and nobody else. The challenge is to focus your love and attention on your spouse, not on others. Can you do this?
Any woman you are with will have thoughts, opinions, and desires that are not always the same as yours. It doesn't matter how old she is. It's easy to fantasize about other people, but the reality is that all women are human beings and it's not going to be easy with anybody, no matter how young and beautiful they are.
posted by chickenmagazine at 8:42 AM on May 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
You yourself are 34, but you are dissatisfied in a relationship because you haven't had a chance to 'play the field'? Well ok, that can happen, but what specifically is it about being with someone younger or more beautiful that you think will fix this situation? That they won't want you to be monogamous? That they won't have issues (including, potentially infertility?) - Newsflash: those circumstances are not exclusive to non-young/beautiful women. If you don't want to be in a relationship you should leave your wife. Dating other people is a way down the line after that point, regardless of age or physical appearance.
posted by freya_lamb at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by freya_lamb at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2016 [6 favorites]
The way you describe your wife and young women to whom you are attracted makes it sound like you don't think of women as people, but as objects, and commodities at that.
You need to reframe your thoughts. Your wife is a full partner in your life, not a set of attributes which can be traded "up".
posted by girlpublisher at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2016 [98 favorites]
You need to reframe your thoughts. Your wife is a full partner in your life, not a set of attributes which can be traded "up".
posted by girlpublisher at 8:46 AM on May 4, 2016 [98 favorites]
Lots to unpack here but I think the crux of it is that you probably weren't ready to get married. Your wife has been married before and it sounds like she understands it as a give and take. You think of it as some sort of favour, like you're giving but not getting anything. I doubt that's true. You need therapy either by yourself and as a couple because you need to work through the fact you barely knew someone before you committed for life to her. You need to deal with your personal issues and you two need to develop communication/relationship skills that most couples develop while they're dating.
Plus, even if you had married a younger woman, she still might struggle to conceive and she still will eventually be 35 too. Also, you mention that doctors couldn't find anything in terms of pregnancy. Did they test you?
Then, no matter who you marry, you will find times that you are attracted to other people. There is no person young and pretty enough to ensure that you will never be attracted to another person. Jay Z cheated on Beyoncé and I think most people would agree that Beyoncé is very pretty. Being attracted to someone else is normal but how you choose to react to it is the real important part. Don't be a Jay Z!
You made choices and now you have to work through the consequences of those choices. Get help or leave your wife, but I'm going to be honest with you. As a woman in her 20s, there is not much appealing about dating a divorced man in his 30s so don't make decisions because you think you're going to have younger women lining up to date you.
posted by GilvearSt at 8:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [13 favorites]
Plus, even if you had married a younger woman, she still might struggle to conceive and she still will eventually be 35 too. Also, you mention that doctors couldn't find anything in terms of pregnancy. Did they test you?
Then, no matter who you marry, you will find times that you are attracted to other people. There is no person young and pretty enough to ensure that you will never be attracted to another person. Jay Z cheated on Beyoncé and I think most people would agree that Beyoncé is very pretty. Being attracted to someone else is normal but how you choose to react to it is the real important part. Don't be a Jay Z!
You made choices and now you have to work through the consequences of those choices. Get help or leave your wife, but I'm going to be honest with you. As a woman in her 20s, there is not much appealing about dating a divorced man in his 30s so don't make decisions because you think you're going to have younger women lining up to date you.
posted by GilvearSt at 8:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [13 favorites]
I think you've discovered that all that glitters is not gold. Your relationships have pretty much been online which is VERY different from being with someone day to day.
Your age difference with your wife is nothing, and in fact, it usually indicates a mature outlook to understand that people in your age group are going to have more in common with you than people who are much older or younger than you are. Someone ten years younger than you are will not have the experience and wisdom that you do and may be immature and childish in comparison.
You're infatuated with an idea, the idea of sex with a young, beautiful person. You're not thinking about connecting with this woman, of conversations you'll have, of the support she can give you if you should get sick, of the support she can give you if you suddenly found yourself poor or out of work. You're just horny for a hot, sexy woman (not girl, woman.) You are fantasizing, and while there's nothing wrong with fantasy per se, not understanding that it IS a fantasy is very dangerous.
You seem to put a lot of importance in what others think of you and your decisions and not much about the feelings of your wife. Her age is nothing. I was expecting you to tell me you had a large age difference, but you're essentially the same age. The fact that she is divorced...if you honestly had a problem with it, you should not have married her. It's really unfair of you to throw that in her face now.
Have you explored YOUR fertility? That might be an avenue. 35 is not an unusual age to become pregnant, judging by all of MY friends. It won't happen as quickly, but it can happen. Although given your frame of mind right now, you should NOT try to have a baby, because your marriage is very shaky.
You seem rather immature for someone nearly forty. I'll chalk that up to your inexperience with relationships in general. Marriage is a partnership, financially, emotionally and legally. I'd suggest that you understand what it was that you once found so special about your wife, why you defied your family to marry her. Get both couples counseling and individual counseling to explore your expectations versus the realities of marriage, get your head screwed on straight.
If, after really exploring your relationship, if you're just too different to make it work, then you can start thinking about divorcing your wife. But you should also know what you DO want in a relationship in the future. I doubt it will be a buffet of nubile young women. If that IS what you want...do your wife the favor and get out now, no self respecting woman would want to be with a many who doesn't view women as equals.
Also, don't be too disappointed if the promised bevy of beauties doesn't show up on your doorstep ready to do your bidding....young, beautiful women have minds and preferences too, and your track record is nothing to brag about.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2016 [25 favorites]
Your age difference with your wife is nothing, and in fact, it usually indicates a mature outlook to understand that people in your age group are going to have more in common with you than people who are much older or younger than you are. Someone ten years younger than you are will not have the experience and wisdom that you do and may be immature and childish in comparison.
You're infatuated with an idea, the idea of sex with a young, beautiful person. You're not thinking about connecting with this woman, of conversations you'll have, of the support she can give you if you should get sick, of the support she can give you if you suddenly found yourself poor or out of work. You're just horny for a hot, sexy woman (not girl, woman.) You are fantasizing, and while there's nothing wrong with fantasy per se, not understanding that it IS a fantasy is very dangerous.
You seem to put a lot of importance in what others think of you and your decisions and not much about the feelings of your wife. Her age is nothing. I was expecting you to tell me you had a large age difference, but you're essentially the same age. The fact that she is divorced...if you honestly had a problem with it, you should not have married her. It's really unfair of you to throw that in her face now.
Have you explored YOUR fertility? That might be an avenue. 35 is not an unusual age to become pregnant, judging by all of MY friends. It won't happen as quickly, but it can happen. Although given your frame of mind right now, you should NOT try to have a baby, because your marriage is very shaky.
You seem rather immature for someone nearly forty. I'll chalk that up to your inexperience with relationships in general. Marriage is a partnership, financially, emotionally and legally. I'd suggest that you understand what it was that you once found so special about your wife, why you defied your family to marry her. Get both couples counseling and individual counseling to explore your expectations versus the realities of marriage, get your head screwed on straight.
If, after really exploring your relationship, if you're just too different to make it work, then you can start thinking about divorcing your wife. But you should also know what you DO want in a relationship in the future. I doubt it will be a buffet of nubile young women. If that IS what you want...do your wife the favor and get out now, no self respecting woman would want to be with a many who doesn't view women as equals.
Also, don't be too disappointed if the promised bevy of beauties doesn't show up on your doorstep ready to do your bidding....young, beautiful women have minds and preferences too, and your track record is nothing to brag about.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2016 [25 favorites]
You are getting a lot of advice from people with a very western, first-world perspective on marriage and relationships. That perspective says a good relationship values mutual respect, equality, each person pulling their own emotional weight, contributing equally to the household, resolving conflicts through counseling and discussion, and mutual sexual satisfaction. It's a perspective I hold and value as well.
Are those values you also hold about relationships? If so, then you do need to unpack some of the cultural baggage you were raised with to understand how that is causing you to approach your wife from a pretty judgmental and disrespectful point of view. You have to decide whether or not you're willing to do the work necessary to rid yourself of the hangups you were raised with to have the kind of relationship that values the above.
You don't say what religion or culture you were raised in, but it's possible to find a therapist who both understands your background and can help you figure out what to hold onto and what to shed so you can lead a happier life. As part of your therapy you'd have to figure out your relationship with your family as they seem to have had and continue to have a negative influence on how you view your marriage and your wife.
35 is not old by any means and many women have children at that age and beyond. If fertility is one issue, then you need to get yourself tested as well.
posted by brookeb at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2016 [14 favorites]
Are those values you also hold about relationships? If so, then you do need to unpack some of the cultural baggage you were raised with to understand how that is causing you to approach your wife from a pretty judgmental and disrespectful point of view. You have to decide whether or not you're willing to do the work necessary to rid yourself of the hangups you were raised with to have the kind of relationship that values the above.
You don't say what religion or culture you were raised in, but it's possible to find a therapist who both understands your background and can help you figure out what to hold onto and what to shed so you can lead a happier life. As part of your therapy you'd have to figure out your relationship with your family as they seem to have had and continue to have a negative influence on how you view your marriage and your wife.
35 is not old by any means and many women have children at that age and beyond. If fertility is one issue, then you need to get yourself tested as well.
posted by brookeb at 8:53 AM on May 4, 2016 [14 favorites]
There are clearly a lot of cultural differences between you and me, but if you are living in North America, and want to date North American women, none of the attitudes you have about women are going to fly very well with them. You are talking about women like they are objects. Women are not objects. They are human beings. You wife is a human being, equal in all regards to yourself. You were not ready to be married, primarily because you never came to a place in your life where you understood that women are people. Do your wife a favor and either learn that lesson immediately (therapy?) or let her get on with her life without you.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2016 [50 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:54 AM on May 4, 2016 [50 favorites]
I just want to point out to you that you have done a lot of things in your life without really thinking them through a great amount and then regretted later.
For example - you broke up with your now-wife due to pressure from outside, which sounds like a hasty decision at the time which you then regretted.
- You fell for "too fast" and declared your love for a woman who "wasn't ready" and were then heartbroken, and it sounds like you regretted that as well.
- You then married your wife without having taken time to "formally date" and relatively quickly find yourself regretting that.
I would suggest that this is a recurring pattern, and you have the power to break it, starting now.
To do this, I would suggest starting by taking a significant period of contemplation over your feelings towards your wife (eg. do you love her? how does your own fertility, and hers, affect whether you would want to stay married? what do you prioritise in a marriage? etc). You should also see a therapist if possible to help you understand the reasons for why you have acted so quickly in ways you later regret.
It's up to you if you want to break this pattern now, but if you do not take steps to do so, I think that sadly you will not be able to find contentment whoever you are married to or sleeping with.
posted by greenish at 8:59 AM on May 4, 2016 [10 favorites]
For example - you broke up with your now-wife due to pressure from outside, which sounds like a hasty decision at the time which you then regretted.
- You fell for "too fast" and declared your love for a woman who "wasn't ready" and were then heartbroken, and it sounds like you regretted that as well.
- You then married your wife without having taken time to "formally date" and relatively quickly find yourself regretting that.
I would suggest that this is a recurring pattern, and you have the power to break it, starting now.
To do this, I would suggest starting by taking a significant period of contemplation over your feelings towards your wife (eg. do you love her? how does your own fertility, and hers, affect whether you would want to stay married? what do you prioritise in a marriage? etc). You should also see a therapist if possible to help you understand the reasons for why you have acted so quickly in ways you later regret.
It's up to you if you want to break this pattern now, but if you do not take steps to do so, I think that sadly you will not be able to find contentment whoever you are married to or sleeping with.
posted by greenish at 8:59 AM on May 4, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is slightly off your actual question, but despite the infertility you seem to be assuming, you should be using contraception right now. Do not have a baby now. Not just because it's unclear if you should stay together, but also because I'm guessing you haven't given much thought to what will happen if you do stay together and have a baby.
Are you prepared to stay up all night with a screaming child and go to work in the morning (assuming you're in the US where you'll get no leave to speak of)? Are you prepared to have to back a bag every time you want to leave the house? Are you prepared to make lunches and check homework and keep a calendar of school activities so you can remind your kid that today is gym day or today is library day and they have to remember their gym cloths/library book? Are you ready to spend several nights in a row standing vigil over a feverish child? Are you ready to have to leave work on a moment's notice when you get a call from the school? Making pediatrician appointments and taking a half day off work to go to them? Getting through your shopping list at the supermarket with a hyperactive or cranky kid? Not being able to just decide on a whim to go to a concert, sporting event, the gym, out for dinner with friends, etc?
I have a strong suspicion that you are imagining that when you have a kid your wife will be the only one doing any parenting and that your life will continue as before, except that when you feel like it you'll play with the baby/kid. Make sure you and your wife are on the same page about how you will share parenting before you stop using contraception.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
Are you prepared to stay up all night with a screaming child and go to work in the morning (assuming you're in the US where you'll get no leave to speak of)? Are you prepared to have to back a bag every time you want to leave the house? Are you prepared to make lunches and check homework and keep a calendar of school activities so you can remind your kid that today is gym day or today is library day and they have to remember their gym cloths/library book? Are you ready to spend several nights in a row standing vigil over a feverish child? Are you ready to have to leave work on a moment's notice when you get a call from the school? Making pediatrician appointments and taking a half day off work to go to them? Getting through your shopping list at the supermarket with a hyperactive or cranky kid? Not being able to just decide on a whim to go to a concert, sporting event, the gym, out for dinner with friends, etc?
I have a strong suspicion that you are imagining that when you have a kid your wife will be the only one doing any parenting and that your life will continue as before, except that when you feel like it you'll play with the baby/kid. Make sure you and your wife are on the same page about how you will share parenting before you stop using contraception.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:10 AM on May 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'm honestly at a loss. I expected your wife to be at least ten years older and for you to have recently discovered an interest in pedophilia. One year? One year?! Get over yourself. She's your age. If I was your wife and saw how you viewed me I would want to divorce you immediately.
posted by Marinara at 9:13 AM on May 4, 2016 [82 favorites]
posted by Marinara at 9:13 AM on May 4, 2016 [82 favorites]
Everyone has said really useful things and all I have to add is that you appear to have double standards. You're basically the same age as your wife. One year is nothing. Yet you are "a young person" and she's "an old person" in your mind. Well, you're both in that in-between stage between youth and middle age. Your whole attitude toward women is incredibly sexist. You seem to feel entitled to a bunch of younger women. You want to fix your marriage, you're going to have to fix your entire attitude towards women.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 9:14 AM on May 4, 2016 [53 favorites]
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 9:14 AM on May 4, 2016 [53 favorites]
I agree with Marinara above. I would divorce you.
You are making this about your wife, or problems that you have with your wife, or your religion and cultural upbringing, but I would think seriously about what you are bringing (or, more to the point, NOT bringing) to the table. Sometimes we are unhappy with ourselves and our decisions but it is easier to find fault with others--particularly in a patriarchal sexist global culture. Identify things about yourself that you can improve or address (possibly infertility, for example, as others above have noted). I would start with unlearning the entitled misogyny that has you believing that another "girl" would solve your problems. That is seriously troubling and unfair to your current wife.
Also, sorry, I should add that I am not advocating that having a child would be the answer here.
posted by RaRa-SpaceRobot at 9:16 AM on May 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
You are making this about your wife, or problems that you have with your wife, or your religion and cultural upbringing, but I would think seriously about what you are bringing (or, more to the point, NOT bringing) to the table. Sometimes we are unhappy with ourselves and our decisions but it is easier to find fault with others--particularly in a patriarchal sexist global culture. Identify things about yourself that you can improve or address (possibly infertility, for example, as others above have noted). I would start with unlearning the entitled misogyny that has you believing that another "girl" would solve your problems. That is seriously troubling and unfair to your current wife.
Also, sorry, I should add that I am not advocating that having a child would be the answer here.
posted by RaRa-SpaceRobot at 9:16 AM on May 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
Even if you do leave your wife, your age, track record and attitude isn't actually going to get you laid with beautiful young American girls unless you are very wealthy. Are you?
What you should do is either leave your wife so she isn't saddled with someone who thinks of her as old and unlovable, or work on understanding that fantasies about boning lots of young women are something many men have and enjoy harmlessly without scorning their actual, flesh and blood, same-aged wives whom they love. But it doesn't sound like you love your wife, so Option 1 is making more sense.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
What you should do is either leave your wife so she isn't saddled with someone who thinks of her as old and unlovable, or work on understanding that fantasies about boning lots of young women are something many men have and enjoy harmlessly without scorning their actual, flesh and blood, same-aged wives whom they love. But it doesn't sound like you love your wife, so Option 1 is making more sense.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:30 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you divorce your wife, surely that will cause more problems for you with family as then you'll be the divorced one - or does that standard not apply to men?
She's not older than you, sounds like you're 38 and she's 39 - that's nothing. Its not just normal, its cliched for a man of your age to fantasize about younger women. Those younger women will become older women eventually - everyone ages and you're not getting any younger either.
Its also normal for unhappy people to fantasize about something they think will solve all their problems.
If you're not just thinking about sex with younger women, then you might want to explore in therapy what you think they can offer you that your wife can't. If you have a deep-seated desire for children and your wife can't provide them, that may be an issue that is worthy of divorce if you can't overcome it. If its just the family pressure, maybe a therapist can help relieve you of that so you can be happy with your wife.
posted by missmagenta at 9:31 AM on May 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
She's not older than you, sounds like you're 38 and she's 39 - that's nothing. Its not just normal, its cliched for a man of your age to fantasize about younger women. Those younger women will become older women eventually - everyone ages and you're not getting any younger either.
Its also normal for unhappy people to fantasize about something they think will solve all their problems.
If you're not just thinking about sex with younger women, then you might want to explore in therapy what you think they can offer you that your wife can't. If you have a deep-seated desire for children and your wife can't provide them, that may be an issue that is worthy of divorce if you can't overcome it. If its just the family pressure, maybe a therapist can help relieve you of that so you can be happy with your wife.
posted by missmagenta at 9:31 AM on May 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
You should let her go. You obviously don't love her or even like or respect her very much. You think she's "old", which she's not, and which is incredibly unfair considering that you guys are the same age. Not to mention that while I can't divine what her fertility issues are, if she's 34-35 as implied in your question, they almost certainly are not that she's too old to bear children. And the fact that you don't care enough to know the right answer, but simply add your trouble conceiving a child to your litany of reasons you think she's "too old" and thus unsuitable, proves how little you value her as a human being.
End this. Not because you're right to want sex with younger women, but because she deserves better.
posted by Sara C. at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2016 [24 favorites]
End this. Not because you're right to want sex with younger women, but because she deserves better.
posted by Sara C. at 9:42 AM on May 4, 2016 [24 favorites]
Best answer: Hi. Please take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt, in case it comes out too bitter.
This is what you can expect from your sexuality when you live your life in conscious ignorance of it. This isn't unique to any single group of people or culture. It sounds like you lived your life in complete isolation from yourself as a sexual being, and did not receive adequate mentoring from anyone about how to live with it as a positive life force.
Now hear this: this can happen to anyone who spends their life self-loathing, fearing, and fleeing their sexuality -- through alcoholism, fervent religious study, workaholism, pornography, addictions, and more. It can happen to men, women, and transgendered people. It can happen whether you are gay or straight. Any person from any ethnic or social group of people could spend their life treating their sexual self as if it did not exist, and come to a very similar situation as you find yourself today -- imprisoned by life circumstance and at the mercy of this inner force.
The thing is, whether you grow up acknowledging your sexuality in a good way or not, it develops anyway -- whether slowly over the years, or rapidly through lots of interaction with the gender you're attracted to. A satisfying life experience with your own sexuality doesn't just happen, and it doesn't just blossom either. It takes conscious effort and a willingness to endure one's truth to have a truly satisfying sexual relationship with yourself, the environment you find yourself in, and hopefully the person you come to share that relationship with.
By North American standards, the feelings you're feeling now (of jealousy and that your prime is now passing) are typically experienced in teenage years (approx. 13-19 years old; the age scale Dynex suggests is excellent for setting appropriate boundaries for this conversation). I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but any culture which needs to raise its male and female young in complete isolation from each other (because it is SO fearful of its own sexual nature) is setting its young people up for this kind of quarter life crisis-type disappointment. You haven't done your learning, and now you are in too late a life stage to go back and catch up. By North American standards, if you think you can "go back" now and be with a teen girl, you will point blank be perceived as a creepy man by women your age. It's your call.
I'm really trying hard not to be judgmental here because I am a similar age to you, quite possibly from a similar ethnic background, and have experienced similar struggles. I have found Western life unsatisfying for the soul and for creating space for healthy sexuality and romance to development (not as a PoC living in Canada).
The mistake I think you are making with your wife is limiting your sexual development entirely to relationships with women you are having to scavenge for (again, I have been there, in terms of trying to attract relationships with North American men). You have not developed an honorable relationship with your soul in denying your agency in this. You are a 30-something young man, and yet you have not used your gifts to foster consciousness for your own inner divinity (okay, I know that might sound lame, but I can't think of a better non-denigrating way to explain it). Part of realizing that inner divinity or sacred sense of soul (or whatever you want to call it in your belief system) is accepting that part of the humanizing process of human life is coming into a romantic/sexual harmony with a foreign "other" (usually the gender opposite). This is a process that I would describe as fairly dormant from birth (0-12), starts development in the teen years (13-19), and then matures in adulthood (20+). As a person develops their gifts and talents, so too do they steadily activate their connection to their inner divine. They start to think about romance and/or sex, experience soulful dreams with deep physiological connection, and experience their sexual power with the opposite sex (or gender they are interested in).
Carl Jung and Hinduism both try to illustrate this relationship in their descriptions of syzygy (harmonious balancing of the inner feminine and masculine) and Ardhanarishvara respectively. If you can reframe your current life experience as a spiritual crisis in the development of your own inner feminine, your relationship with your sexual self, and your syzygy with both, I think you'll do far better than by North American and non-North American standards.
Men and women don't have to be helpless victims of their sexuality, and find themselves in stranded situations with it as you are finding yourself now. The development of this energy has its own life soul; that's why you are experiencing it so powerfully now, as your maturity as a sexual man is "peaking" so to speak. If you do therapy (as a place to bear consciousness to this process) and very meaningfully search within yourself, your mind, your soul and your dreams through the dark places in which your relationship to your sexual and inner feminine self were lost, you'll find the light you need for it to breathe. In surrendering to the development of this aspect of Self, as part of your relationship to the greater world and universe (again, whatever your belief system is, adapt as needed), you can emerge with a stronger relationship with your world and with greater inner harmony for what has needed to happen in your life. You should have never had to feel that your worth as a man was never going to be acknowledged by a woman who could be your equal and love you. In all your time on earth, you should have never been made to feel that your masculine self was essentially worthless. None of us, whether in North America or overseas, should have to live feeling like that, to end up trapped in our 30s in relationships we can see are downward spirals because, in our faithful loyalty to our elders, we ended up so disconnected from ourselves.
If you've spent your life not acknowledging this, giving it mental/emotional space, taking responsibility for it, mentoring it where clearly there are deficits in your understanding, and especially... healing it without resorting to using people as tools for better understanding it, then you will inevitably find yourself where you are today: in hateful and hurtful relationships with the gender you hold your desire for. This will not change with a younger woman because you will continue to bring your wounding into every relationship you continue to have (and without working on this, you will watch your inner darkness becomes hers over time, and then you will essentially loathe her for reflecting what you hate to see in yourself -- this is a story that happens all over the world, in any group you might encounter, including North Americans). Find a place and someone to work with on this, until you hate your own sexual self no longer, and then experience having relationships with women without all the hatred of your ancestral fathers and mothers heaped upon them. Good luck.
posted by human ecologist at 10:06 AM on May 4, 2016 [39 favorites]
This is what you can expect from your sexuality when you live your life in conscious ignorance of it. This isn't unique to any single group of people or culture. It sounds like you lived your life in complete isolation from yourself as a sexual being, and did not receive adequate mentoring from anyone about how to live with it as a positive life force.
Now hear this: this can happen to anyone who spends their life self-loathing, fearing, and fleeing their sexuality -- through alcoholism, fervent religious study, workaholism, pornography, addictions, and more. It can happen to men, women, and transgendered people. It can happen whether you are gay or straight. Any person from any ethnic or social group of people could spend their life treating their sexual self as if it did not exist, and come to a very similar situation as you find yourself today -- imprisoned by life circumstance and at the mercy of this inner force.
The thing is, whether you grow up acknowledging your sexuality in a good way or not, it develops anyway -- whether slowly over the years, or rapidly through lots of interaction with the gender you're attracted to. A satisfying life experience with your own sexuality doesn't just happen, and it doesn't just blossom either. It takes conscious effort and a willingness to endure one's truth to have a truly satisfying sexual relationship with yourself, the environment you find yourself in, and hopefully the person you come to share that relationship with.
By North American standards, the feelings you're feeling now (of jealousy and that your prime is now passing) are typically experienced in teenage years (approx. 13-19 years old; the age scale Dynex suggests is excellent for setting appropriate boundaries for this conversation). I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but any culture which needs to raise its male and female young in complete isolation from each other (because it is SO fearful of its own sexual nature) is setting its young people up for this kind of quarter life crisis-type disappointment. You haven't done your learning, and now you are in too late a life stage to go back and catch up. By North American standards, if you think you can "go back" now and be with a teen girl, you will point blank be perceived as a creepy man by women your age. It's your call.
I'm really trying hard not to be judgmental here because I am a similar age to you, quite possibly from a similar ethnic background, and have experienced similar struggles. I have found Western life unsatisfying for the soul and for creating space for healthy sexuality and romance to development (not as a PoC living in Canada).
The mistake I think you are making with your wife is limiting your sexual development entirely to relationships with women you are having to scavenge for (again, I have been there, in terms of trying to attract relationships with North American men). You have not developed an honorable relationship with your soul in denying your agency in this. You are a 30-something young man, and yet you have not used your gifts to foster consciousness for your own inner divinity (okay, I know that might sound lame, but I can't think of a better non-denigrating way to explain it). Part of realizing that inner divinity or sacred sense of soul (or whatever you want to call it in your belief system) is accepting that part of the humanizing process of human life is coming into a romantic/sexual harmony with a foreign "other" (usually the gender opposite). This is a process that I would describe as fairly dormant from birth (0-12), starts development in the teen years (13-19), and then matures in adulthood (20+). As a person develops their gifts and talents, so too do they steadily activate their connection to their inner divine. They start to think about romance and/or sex, experience soulful dreams with deep physiological connection, and experience their sexual power with the opposite sex (or gender they are interested in).
Carl Jung and Hinduism both try to illustrate this relationship in their descriptions of syzygy (harmonious balancing of the inner feminine and masculine) and Ardhanarishvara respectively. If you can reframe your current life experience as a spiritual crisis in the development of your own inner feminine, your relationship with your sexual self, and your syzygy with both, I think you'll do far better than by North American and non-North American standards.
Men and women don't have to be helpless victims of their sexuality, and find themselves in stranded situations with it as you are finding yourself now. The development of this energy has its own life soul; that's why you are experiencing it so powerfully now, as your maturity as a sexual man is "peaking" so to speak. If you do therapy (as a place to bear consciousness to this process) and very meaningfully search within yourself, your mind, your soul and your dreams through the dark places in which your relationship to your sexual and inner feminine self were lost, you'll find the light you need for it to breathe. In surrendering to the development of this aspect of Self, as part of your relationship to the greater world and universe (again, whatever your belief system is, adapt as needed), you can emerge with a stronger relationship with your world and with greater inner harmony for what has needed to happen in your life. You should have never had to feel that your worth as a man was never going to be acknowledged by a woman who could be your equal and love you. In all your time on earth, you should have never been made to feel that your masculine self was essentially worthless. None of us, whether in North America or overseas, should have to live feeling like that, to end up trapped in our 30s in relationships we can see are downward spirals because, in our faithful loyalty to our elders, we ended up so disconnected from ourselves.
If you've spent your life not acknowledging this, giving it mental/emotional space, taking responsibility for it, mentoring it where clearly there are deficits in your understanding, and especially... healing it without resorting to using people as tools for better understanding it, then you will inevitably find yourself where you are today: in hateful and hurtful relationships with the gender you hold your desire for. This will not change with a younger woman because you will continue to bring your wounding into every relationship you continue to have (and without working on this, you will watch your inner darkness becomes hers over time, and then you will essentially loathe her for reflecting what you hate to see in yourself -- this is a story that happens all over the world, in any group you might encounter, including North Americans). Find a place and someone to work with on this, until you hate your own sexual self no longer, and then experience having relationships with women without all the hatred of your ancestral fathers and mothers heaped upon them. Good luck.
posted by human ecologist at 10:06 AM on May 4, 2016 [39 favorites]
Best answer: I asked the first question; I've been reading the comments in here; I have a follow-up.
wondering_man, you have indeed been getting a lot of people responding from a Western perspective. You mention that you are not from this culture, though, so you may be feeling a bit defensive right now.
But this is actually a good opportunity to think about what it is that is important to you. Here's what I mean.
It sounds like you are reacting to a lot of very complicated pressures - your family's pressure, your culture and its values, etc. And they are all pulling you in different directions - but I am not clear what you yourself feel. That is one reason I asked whether you loved your wife, because that was not clear to me. And I was hoping that you would be able to realize that "why, yes, I love my wife," and that might help you figure out that that should be your priority; or, I was hoping that you would realize "wait a minute, I don't think I do love my wife," and that would help you figure out that divorce was something you should consider.
But is important for you to actually pick and choose what is important to you, and what you value, rather than asking other people to decide for you, or letting other people influence you. This does not mean that you shouldn't ask for advice if you need it; but deciding what is important to you will help you decide which advice you should consider, and which advice you should reject.
So: this is an opportunity for you to decide exactly what values are important to you.
* Do you value having children? Is that a priority for you, to the point that you would break up a marriage if you couldn't have children with that particular partner?
* Do you want to keep your home country's values and way of life, even though you live here? Or is it more important to you to adopt this country's values?
* Do you love your wife, to the extent that you definitely want to stay married to her no matter what? Or are you questioning whether you love her in the first place?
These are not easy questions, but they are important ones to consider. And once you decide what is absolutely important to you, then you have a foundation from which to move forward. And you can also figure out how to proceed, even if you feel like you have two values that contradict. For example:
* Suppose you decide that you absolutely want to have children, but you also love your wife and want to stay married. If you were to discover that either you or she was infertile, you could investigate adoption as an alternative - that way the two of you would be able to stay married, but still raise a family.
For the record, I don't think that infertility is an issue just yet. Only your doctors would be able to tell for sure. But I also don't think that the fact that she hasn't had any children yet is really the problem. I suspect your real problem is that you haven't ever really sat down and thought carefully about exactly what you want in life. And because you haven't ever really thought about that, you are more easily swayed by what other people suggest to you that you should want.
I suggest thinking very carefully about what your priorities are, and your values are - without asking any of us for advice on that, and without asking your family about that. Maybe you can discuss it with a therapist (they are able to help people sort through a lot of confusing thoughts while still remaining impartial), but that's it. Then when you have a clearer idea of what kinds of things are important to you, you will have a clearer idea about what you should do in this particular situation.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:21 AM on May 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
wondering_man, you have indeed been getting a lot of people responding from a Western perspective. You mention that you are not from this culture, though, so you may be feeling a bit defensive right now.
But this is actually a good opportunity to think about what it is that is important to you. Here's what I mean.
It sounds like you are reacting to a lot of very complicated pressures - your family's pressure, your culture and its values, etc. And they are all pulling you in different directions - but I am not clear what you yourself feel. That is one reason I asked whether you loved your wife, because that was not clear to me. And I was hoping that you would be able to realize that "why, yes, I love my wife," and that might help you figure out that that should be your priority; or, I was hoping that you would realize "wait a minute, I don't think I do love my wife," and that would help you figure out that divorce was something you should consider.
But is important for you to actually pick and choose what is important to you, and what you value, rather than asking other people to decide for you, or letting other people influence you. This does not mean that you shouldn't ask for advice if you need it; but deciding what is important to you will help you decide which advice you should consider, and which advice you should reject.
So: this is an opportunity for you to decide exactly what values are important to you.
* Do you value having children? Is that a priority for you, to the point that you would break up a marriage if you couldn't have children with that particular partner?
* Do you want to keep your home country's values and way of life, even though you live here? Or is it more important to you to adopt this country's values?
* Do you love your wife, to the extent that you definitely want to stay married to her no matter what? Or are you questioning whether you love her in the first place?
These are not easy questions, but they are important ones to consider. And once you decide what is absolutely important to you, then you have a foundation from which to move forward. And you can also figure out how to proceed, even if you feel like you have two values that contradict. For example:
* Suppose you decide that you absolutely want to have children, but you also love your wife and want to stay married. If you were to discover that either you or she was infertile, you could investigate adoption as an alternative - that way the two of you would be able to stay married, but still raise a family.
For the record, I don't think that infertility is an issue just yet. Only your doctors would be able to tell for sure. But I also don't think that the fact that she hasn't had any children yet is really the problem. I suspect your real problem is that you haven't ever really sat down and thought carefully about exactly what you want in life. And because you haven't ever really thought about that, you are more easily swayed by what other people suggest to you that you should want.
I suggest thinking very carefully about what your priorities are, and your values are - without asking any of us for advice on that, and without asking your family about that. Maybe you can discuss it with a therapist (they are able to help people sort through a lot of confusing thoughts while still remaining impartial), but that's it. Then when you have a clearer idea of what kinds of things are important to you, you will have a clearer idea about what you should do in this particular situation.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:21 AM on May 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
It is fine for him to value and prefer the culture of his home country over the western country he resides in right now. The problem is that he seems to want it both ways: to have a traditional, younger wife who who bears a lot of children for him and defers to his preferences (the values of his home country) AND to have an extended adolescence where he gets divorce his wife on a whim so that he can date and sleep with as many women as he chooses (the western model). I don't think anyone here is saying it's necessarily wrong for him to choose the former lifestyle over the latter, but he really does need to make a choice between the two. Trying to have both is untenable.
posted by scantee at 10:29 AM on May 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by scantee at 10:29 AM on May 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed so far; things folks need to stay away from are (a) making the leap from constructive criticism to hot takes, which isn't helpful and (b) framing answers with "here's the thing about MetaFilter" metacommentary that belongs in MetaTalk if it's a discussion you want to have.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:32 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because he lusts after 25 year olds? Whose husband doesn't lust after 25 year olds?
OP, do not thing that the advice that you are getting is because you lust after 25 year olds (or however young you considers "young girls" to be).
Plenty of people have pointed out that being attracted to or fantasizing about other people, including younger people is pretty normal, and in fact probably universal. The issue is not that you are attracted to younger women. The issue is that you are not thinking of women as human beings, in the exact same way that you are a human being. They have the same ability to make choices. They have the same right to happiness (which is why your wife doesn't think you did her a favour by marrying her -- it's not that you are entitled to happiness and you gave that up and she wasn't actually entitled to happiness but got it through your sacrifice beneficence. You both had the choice to enter or not this marriage and the same right to happiness within it). They have the same right to be attracted to other people (hey, did you ever think that maybe your wife is lusting after the young gardener? Did you ever think that maybe your wife wishes she had married someone with more sexual experience who might be more skilled in bed?). They have the same right to choose whom they are with (so yeah, those 25 year old women you lust after are unlikely to see you as a catch. If you think 35-39 is old, I promise you they think it's ancient. If you don't want to be with a 39 year old, what makes you think they want to be with a 38 year old?).
So yeah, be attracted to 25 year olds, no problem. But treat your wife exactly as you would expect her to treat you if she were attracted to 25 year olds (and again, she probably is), and treat the 25 year olds the exact same way 25-year-old-you would have expected to be treated by 38 year old married women (or divorced women, should that become the relevant comparison group). It's not about being attracted to people outside your marriage, it's about recognizing that other people are human beings, just like you, not some lesser class of people who accessorize your life.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:41 AM on May 4, 2016 [23 favorites]
OP, do not thing that the advice that you are getting is because you lust after 25 year olds (or however young you considers "young girls" to be).
Plenty of people have pointed out that being attracted to or fantasizing about other people, including younger people is pretty normal, and in fact probably universal. The issue is not that you are attracted to younger women. The issue is that you are not thinking of women as human beings, in the exact same way that you are a human being. They have the same ability to make choices. They have the same right to happiness (which is why your wife doesn't think you did her a favour by marrying her -- it's not that you are entitled to happiness and you gave that up and she wasn't actually entitled to happiness but got it through your sacrifice beneficence. You both had the choice to enter or not this marriage and the same right to happiness within it). They have the same right to be attracted to other people (hey, did you ever think that maybe your wife is lusting after the young gardener? Did you ever think that maybe your wife wishes she had married someone with more sexual experience who might be more skilled in bed?). They have the same right to choose whom they are with (so yeah, those 25 year old women you lust after are unlikely to see you as a catch. If you think 35-39 is old, I promise you they think it's ancient. If you don't want to be with a 39 year old, what makes you think they want to be with a 38 year old?).
So yeah, be attracted to 25 year olds, no problem. But treat your wife exactly as you would expect her to treat you if she were attracted to 25 year olds (and again, she probably is), and treat the 25 year olds the exact same way 25-year-old-you would have expected to be treated by 38 year old married women (or divorced women, should that become the relevant comparison group). It's not about being attracted to people outside your marriage, it's about recognizing that other people are human beings, just like you, not some lesser class of people who accessorize your life.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:41 AM on May 4, 2016 [23 favorites]
Whatever extra beauty/fun/joy you imagine in a relationship with a young woman you can have with your wife, seriously! I am sure it will take some work, but pursuing people 15-20 years younger than you would be a lot of work anyway. If you are determined to enjoy your marriage and make the most of it, after a few weeks/months, I think your attitude will be infectious.
posted by michaelh at 10:43 AM on May 4, 2016
posted by michaelh at 10:43 AM on May 4, 2016
You sound a lot like a former coworker of mine: he came to the US from Pakistan, expecting this country to be exactly like the movies he'd grown up on, all of which showed men --- no matter what their age or appearance --- being surrounded by bevies of buxom, adoring, young & beautiful women. My coworker said it was actually quite a shock to find out how far those movies were from reality, how there weren't hordes of bikini-clad women all over the place; how there was actually a similar mix of families, of young and old and in-betweens, attractive and average-looking people that there were back home..... and not a single scantily-clad nymphet falling at his feet begging him to let her make him happy. He could laugh about it, but then again by that time he'd been here several years, and he'd learned the difference between his movie-fueled expectations and reality.
You sound like he must have been not long after he arrived, still expecting the US to conform to 'back home'. That's neither good nor bad on the face of it; it's just what is. The trouble arises when you try to force two cultures into each other --- mixing is fine, forcing is rough.
I'd guess, from your repeated (and repeated and repeated....) references to it that divorce --- especially a divorced woman --- is, at the very least, somewhat rare in your culture; she's probably also looked down on as somehow 'not completely respectable'. Ditto a so-called "older" woman, which means your choosing to marry an "older" and divorced woman probably caused a bit of a family scandal --- let me guess: your family says you should have married some 18 or 20-year-old virgin, right? And now that you're finding out that life isn't a fairy tale, now that you're faced with the day-to-day monotony and reality of work and marriage and ordinary life, you've decided they were right.
I don't know if you've ever heard it, but there's a saying that "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" --- it means that whatever the other guy has always looks better, no matter who you are. Other people seem to have better cars or houses, other people have better jobs, better marriages, better lives. It's not true, but that's how things look. Right now, you're basically just bored with your everyday life, and blaming it on your wife. And if you're looking for permission to cheat on her, forget it. Be kind to the poor woman, and divorce her: let her find a man who will appreciate her more than you seem to.
posted by easily confused at 11:02 AM on May 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
You sound like he must have been not long after he arrived, still expecting the US to conform to 'back home'. That's neither good nor bad on the face of it; it's just what is. The trouble arises when you try to force two cultures into each other --- mixing is fine, forcing is rough.
I'd guess, from your repeated (and repeated and repeated....) references to it that divorce --- especially a divorced woman --- is, at the very least, somewhat rare in your culture; she's probably also looked down on as somehow 'not completely respectable'. Ditto a so-called "older" woman, which means your choosing to marry an "older" and divorced woman probably caused a bit of a family scandal --- let me guess: your family says you should have married some 18 or 20-year-old virgin, right? And now that you're finding out that life isn't a fairy tale, now that you're faced with the day-to-day monotony and reality of work and marriage and ordinary life, you've decided they were right.
I don't know if you've ever heard it, but there's a saying that "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" --- it means that whatever the other guy has always looks better, no matter who you are. Other people seem to have better cars or houses, other people have better jobs, better marriages, better lives. It's not true, but that's how things look. Right now, you're basically just bored with your everyday life, and blaming it on your wife. And if you're looking for permission to cheat on her, forget it. Be kind to the poor woman, and divorce her: let her find a man who will appreciate her more than you seem to.
posted by easily confused at 11:02 AM on May 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
Is there any win-win situation for my case?
Do need to do the mature thing and split up with her. You guys are entirely wrong for one another and you're just wasting her life now. She's wasting precious time on a man who doesn't want to be with her.
posted by neeta at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Do need to do the mature thing and split up with her. You guys are entirely wrong for one another and you're just wasting her life now. She's wasting precious time on a man who doesn't want to be with her.
posted by neeta at 11:16 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Most young women are keenly aware that there's a subset of older men that prefer younger women, sometimes exclusively, and they consider it a huge red flag. This is because:
- there are potential imbalances at play (life experience, career/earning power, etc.)
- the guy is likely fetishizing them, or attracted to them on a very shallow level
- why can't this guy be happy with (or find) a woman his own age?
- youth is fleeting, and thus a lousy basis for a long-term relationship
Do any of those points make you think "but that's exactly why I'm interested in younger women"? That might help you a little with digging to the roots of this.
Bear in mind, also, that any attitudes that would cause difficulty in a relationship with a younger woman would also cause difficulty in a relationship with a woman your age, and vice versa. You bring the same stuff to the table either way. You will have the same challenges, the same doubts, the same temptations. There will be times when you think "well, if I was with someone else, this wouldn't be a problem," when it's a problem only you can solve.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
- there are potential imbalances at play (life experience, career/earning power, etc.)
- the guy is likely fetishizing them, or attracted to them on a very shallow level
- why can't this guy be happy with (or find) a woman his own age?
- youth is fleeting, and thus a lousy basis for a long-term relationship
Do any of those points make you think "but that's exactly why I'm interested in younger women"? That might help you a little with digging to the roots of this.
Bear in mind, also, that any attitudes that would cause difficulty in a relationship with a younger woman would also cause difficulty in a relationship with a woman your age, and vice versa. You bring the same stuff to the table either way. You will have the same challenges, the same doubts, the same temptations. There will be times when you think "well, if I was with someone else, this wouldn't be a problem," when it's a problem only you can solve.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
Here's another thought: yes, it's true that there are couples where the husband is fifteen years or more older that the wife; there are also plenty of guys in their 50s or 60s or more with gorgeous much-younger wives (look at Donald Trump, for one).
But what do those older men have to offer their young wives? Good looks? Not unless she likes flab and wrinkles and a receding hair line. Conversation? Not really --- they don't have a lot in common to talk about. What those older men do have is money, and lots of it..... huge amounts of money in the bank make anyone look sexy.
Are you rich? No? Then why should some young woman waste her time on you, an "older" man?
posted by easily confused at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2016 [6 favorites]
But what do those older men have to offer their young wives? Good looks? Not unless she likes flab and wrinkles and a receding hair line. Conversation? Not really --- they don't have a lot in common to talk about. What those older men do have is money, and lots of it..... huge amounts of money in the bank make anyone look sexy.
Are you rich? No? Then why should some young woman waste her time on you, an "older" man?
posted by easily confused at 11:27 AM on May 4, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have made big sacrifices ignoring her older age/divorce considering our culture but in her mind she deserved this and there was nothing unusual.
I understand that these seem like big sacrifices to you. I am not going to address the fact that to me (and most people in the West) this statement is hugely insulting.
Let me start by saying that I have worked with tons of men who came from backgrounds like yours and married a young beautiful girl, and they are terribly lonely people, to the point where their young and beautiful wives end up morphing into the role of daughter, and after a couple of years these men ooze disdain for these young girls who might have been beautiful, but who have been so annulled by their own families that they might as well be robots with no passion, opinions, or identity. I have seen several of these men cry in despair because they feel so alone, and these were men who seemed strong, stable and who were the pillars of their communities. I have seen men like these cry about this at least ten times.
Your first and most important mistake was to marry a woman you don't love. You may like her, but you do not love her. This is obvious to me because it is impossible to love a person you do not respect, and your question makes it really clear that you see your wife as an acquisition. I don't blame you personally. I understand you grew up with this perception of women, but you will never have companionship, love, and true intimacy with a woman unless you respect her and truly love her.
What I want to focus on is that YOU made these decisions. YOU and only you chose to make these "sacrifices", and now you regret them.
So of course, you could divorce her. In fact, I think you should. You did not marry for the right reasons, and now you are saddled with a relationship that is not right for you, wasting your wife's time, and stringing her along when all you had to do was be honest to yourself.
So yeah, get a divorce, but let me tell you this: the ethical road here is to completely accept that you got yourself into this mess. You lied to yourself, you hid your true feelings from your wife, and you made bad, BAD decisions and you need to own them. Apologize to your wife, be kind, be respectful, and be a grown up. Deal with the consequences of your actions and do everything in your power to make this transition easier on your wife.
After you admit your own fuck ups, try to see things from your wife's point of view. Try to imagine you live in a society that sees you as an object, and try to imagine that your own spouse is leaving you because he wants to exchange you for a newer, hotter version. Imagine how painful and dehumanizing that is.
Use this opportunity to question whether treating women like this is okay. Physical attraction is super important in a relationship, and once you see women as people (just like you), you will find that falling in love with someone means you love them and you feel attracted to them even as they age.
If you go into your next relationship looking for a "young and beautiful girl" to marry, the only "girls" who are available to you will be those who have been dominated into submission and who are likely uneducated. Expect zero input or intimacy or sharing of responsibilities from any "girl" who is traded to you in this way. Also get used to the idea that this new girl will feel zero real interest or love for you, because she has been taught that her own opinions and preferences don't matter.
If you go into your next relationship looking for a woman to know, respect and love (and find attractive, of course), then you improve your chances at a lifetime of companionship, collaboration and real intimacy. You will find her attractive as she ages, and you will also start seeing young girls as young people who need protection and guidance, rather than objects with a sell-by date.
posted by Tarumba at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2016 [38 favorites]
I understand that these seem like big sacrifices to you. I am not going to address the fact that to me (and most people in the West) this statement is hugely insulting.
Let me start by saying that I have worked with tons of men who came from backgrounds like yours and married a young beautiful girl, and they are terribly lonely people, to the point where their young and beautiful wives end up morphing into the role of daughter, and after a couple of years these men ooze disdain for these young girls who might have been beautiful, but who have been so annulled by their own families that they might as well be robots with no passion, opinions, or identity. I have seen several of these men cry in despair because they feel so alone, and these were men who seemed strong, stable and who were the pillars of their communities. I have seen men like these cry about this at least ten times.
Your first and most important mistake was to marry a woman you don't love. You may like her, but you do not love her. This is obvious to me because it is impossible to love a person you do not respect, and your question makes it really clear that you see your wife as an acquisition. I don't blame you personally. I understand you grew up with this perception of women, but you will never have companionship, love, and true intimacy with a woman unless you respect her and truly love her.
What I want to focus on is that YOU made these decisions. YOU and only you chose to make these "sacrifices", and now you regret them.
So of course, you could divorce her. In fact, I think you should. You did not marry for the right reasons, and now you are saddled with a relationship that is not right for you, wasting your wife's time, and stringing her along when all you had to do was be honest to yourself.
So yeah, get a divorce, but let me tell you this: the ethical road here is to completely accept that you got yourself into this mess. You lied to yourself, you hid your true feelings from your wife, and you made bad, BAD decisions and you need to own them. Apologize to your wife, be kind, be respectful, and be a grown up. Deal with the consequences of your actions and do everything in your power to make this transition easier on your wife.
After you admit your own fuck ups, try to see things from your wife's point of view. Try to imagine you live in a society that sees you as an object, and try to imagine that your own spouse is leaving you because he wants to exchange you for a newer, hotter version. Imagine how painful and dehumanizing that is.
Use this opportunity to question whether treating women like this is okay. Physical attraction is super important in a relationship, and once you see women as people (just like you), you will find that falling in love with someone means you love them and you feel attracted to them even as they age.
If you go into your next relationship looking for a "young and beautiful girl" to marry, the only "girls" who are available to you will be those who have been dominated into submission and who are likely uneducated. Expect zero input or intimacy or sharing of responsibilities from any "girl" who is traded to you in this way. Also get used to the idea that this new girl will feel zero real interest or love for you, because she has been taught that her own opinions and preferences don't matter.
If you go into your next relationship looking for a woman to know, respect and love (and find attractive, of course), then you improve your chances at a lifetime of companionship, collaboration and real intimacy. You will find her attractive as she ages, and you will also start seeing young girls as young people who need protection and guidance, rather than objects with a sell-by date.
posted by Tarumba at 11:28 AM on May 4, 2016 [38 favorites]
I don't know that you need to break up with her, but I think you do need to take some time out and do a little self-assessment.
What does marriage mean to you? Why do people in general, and you in particular, want to get married? It's okay to fantasize about other women (at least, I hope it's okay. If it's not okay then I have some 'splainin to do), but recognize that the fantasy is a fantasy and your 21 year old bisexual gymnast dream-girl is something that only works in the bedroom. In an actual marriage you have to buy groceries, discuss what to have for dinner, get into an argument for no better reason than you had a shitty day at work, and all the rest of the stuff that goes along with actually living a life together.
So try asking yourself these questions. What do you actually want? What do you need? What do you image a day-to-day married life will look like? Can the one you have now make you happy? If not, is the dream marriage you have in your head actually real or is it just some Hollywood fantasy?
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
What does marriage mean to you? Why do people in general, and you in particular, want to get married? It's okay to fantasize about other women (at least, I hope it's okay. If it's not okay then I have some 'splainin to do), but recognize that the fantasy is a fantasy and your 21 year old bisexual gymnast dream-girl is something that only works in the bedroom. In an actual marriage you have to buy groceries, discuss what to have for dinner, get into an argument for no better reason than you had a shitty day at work, and all the rest of the stuff that goes along with actually living a life together.
So try asking yourself these questions. What do you actually want? What do you need? What do you image a day-to-day married life will look like? Can the one you have now make you happy? If not, is the dream marriage you have in your head actually real or is it just some Hollywood fantasy?
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 11:38 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hi there. I think we come from the same or a similar culture – I am Indian, raised in the west. Here is how I read the situation:
1. You didn’t have any real-world relationship experience before getting married, and therefore had naïve/unrealistic expectations of what marriage is like.
2. Because of this lack of experience, you “fell in love” with various women quickly and without truly getting to know them. Lots of inexperienced people do this.
3. You thought you wanted to do things the western way, so you defied your parents and pushed to marry the person you were "in love" with. But now you say you made a big sacrifice by marrying her, as if you did her a favour. Sorry, who did you sacrifice for? She didn’t force you to marry her. YOU defied your family to marry HER.
5. But ok, people make mistakes. You realize now that YOU made a mistake. You rushed into this marriage, and it’s not what you thought it would be. But you must STOP blaming and disrespecting your wife because YOU were immature and made a bad decision. Recognize that she’s your EQUAL (both in age and in value) and that infertility can happen to anyone. Your chances with a younger person would not have been particularly different.
6. Now you need to decide what to do.
It can be very difficult to come to terms with regrets. You are 38 years old now, and by not exploring relationships over the past two decades, you missed out on things you can never get back. You cannot change the past. You still have choices about the future, but you must be realistic about what those choices are.
If your culture is similar to mine, it’s not inconceivable that you, as a 40-something man, could have an arranged marriage with a 20-something woman from back home. Ask yourself if that is what you really want; if it really aligns with your values now as a person who has spent many years living in the west. Ask yourself what your realistic chances are of exploring sexual relationships with young, beautiful women. Ask yourself if both you and your wife will be better off together or apart. You know that if you divorce her, her chances of remarrying within her culture will be close to zero, while yours will be largely unaffected. Ask yourself if what you’re contemplating will be worth doing that to her. If you decide to leave her, be sure that it won’t be just another rash decision that you’ll later regret.
As others above have said, you need to own your choices and decide what you want. You did certain things and those things have consequences; you have no one to blame but yourself. Time to grow up and make some mature decisions. It will be hard. Good luck.
On preview - absolutely everything Tarumba said.
posted by yawper at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
1. You didn’t have any real-world relationship experience before getting married, and therefore had naïve/unrealistic expectations of what marriage is like.
2. Because of this lack of experience, you “fell in love” with various women quickly and without truly getting to know them. Lots of inexperienced people do this.
3. You thought you wanted to do things the western way, so you defied your parents and pushed to marry the person you were "in love" with. But now you say you made a big sacrifice by marrying her, as if you did her a favour. Sorry, who did you sacrifice for? She didn’t force you to marry her. YOU defied your family to marry HER.
5. But ok, people make mistakes. You realize now that YOU made a mistake. You rushed into this marriage, and it’s not what you thought it would be. But you must STOP blaming and disrespecting your wife because YOU were immature and made a bad decision. Recognize that she’s your EQUAL (both in age and in value) and that infertility can happen to anyone. Your chances with a younger person would not have been particularly different.
6. Now you need to decide what to do.
It can be very difficult to come to terms with regrets. You are 38 years old now, and by not exploring relationships over the past two decades, you missed out on things you can never get back. You cannot change the past. You still have choices about the future, but you must be realistic about what those choices are.
If your culture is similar to mine, it’s not inconceivable that you, as a 40-something man, could have an arranged marriage with a 20-something woman from back home. Ask yourself if that is what you really want; if it really aligns with your values now as a person who has spent many years living in the west. Ask yourself what your realistic chances are of exploring sexual relationships with young, beautiful women. Ask yourself if both you and your wife will be better off together or apart. You know that if you divorce her, her chances of remarrying within her culture will be close to zero, while yours will be largely unaffected. Ask yourself if what you’re contemplating will be worth doing that to her. If you decide to leave her, be sure that it won’t be just another rash decision that you’ll later regret.
As others above have said, you need to own your choices and decide what you want. You did certain things and those things have consequences; you have no one to blame but yourself. Time to grow up and make some mature decisions. It will be hard. Good luck.
On preview - absolutely everything Tarumba said.
posted by yawper at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
Whoa dude, yes, please do not say "younger girls" ever again - that sounds like something you really do not want it to sound like. Say "younger women" instead!
Regarding your marriage- to make a long story short and simplify this question: Yes, I think it would be fine for you to get divorced. (But for reasons completed unrelated to your wife not being a "young girl.")
I don't think this question is really about your marriage, though. I'm going to be pretty harsh and honest with you and tell you that I think you have a lot of problems. And not external problems caused by circumstance. Internal problems. I think your problems basically all relate to being in denial that you, and you alone, are in control of your life. The truth is that you are the only one who can know what will make you happy. (And even then, you will sometimes be wrong and make mistakes, as you have discovered so far in your life.) Listen, you MUST take full responsibility for your choices in life, if you ever want to fully become a man. Yes, you are a grown, late 30s adult male biologically. But spiritually and psychologically, you are still a child or adolescent, because you have not accepted full responsibility for your life and your choices.
Listen, you are old enough now that this is not your religious background's fault anymore. You could blame your culture when you were 30, maybe. But not now that you are 39 or whatever. It is not American culture's fault, either. It's not your wife's fault that you're not attracted to her. It's not your ex's fault that you married your wife. It's not your family's fault that any of this happened.
It's all, completely your fault. (I'm overstating this because I think you need to over-correct your thinking- blame yourself first, then add in a shade of "5% parents contributed" or whatever.) If you continue to search for external explanations for your problems in life, you will continue to fail and have the same problems over and over. Divorcing your wife will only be a temporary solution and another mistake, because you do not know yourself, you have not decided who you are, and you will continue to not take full responsibility for your life, whether or not you are married to her.
You see her as the biggest obstacle to your happiness right now. That is not accurate. In fact, you are the biggest obstacle to your own happiness.
You need to accept that parents are going to act like parents. They will never understand you completely. Women are going to be women. They have different biology and different life choices and concerns from men. This is nature's fault, and it will not change no matter how much you want it to change. They will all age. This is also not their fault, it is just life. I think you will be happier if you realize that, like parents being parents and women being concerned with women's issues, and you know, being human and aging, it is also natural that you will feel attraction to fantasy "others" who will, in your imagination, solve all your problems and make you happier. They will not actually solve all your problems and make you happier. Youth is a terrible thing to base your happiness on, because it is guaranteed to fade. So is "new sexual attraction" because it, too, is virtually guaranteed to fade.
Many people at your age find a deeper satisfaction in having children, or devoting themselves to something greater in their careers that will carry on after they die and give their lives meaning. This is something far less likely to fade, and is therefore a wiser choice to base your long-term happiness on.
Please take some time to seriously discover yourself, think deeply, and take responsibility for your life choices before you act to drastically change your life.
posted by quincunx at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
Regarding your marriage- to make a long story short and simplify this question: Yes, I think it would be fine for you to get divorced. (But for reasons completed unrelated to your wife not being a "young girl.")
I don't think this question is really about your marriage, though. I'm going to be pretty harsh and honest with you and tell you that I think you have a lot of problems. And not external problems caused by circumstance. Internal problems. I think your problems basically all relate to being in denial that you, and you alone, are in control of your life. The truth is that you are the only one who can know what will make you happy. (And even then, you will sometimes be wrong and make mistakes, as you have discovered so far in your life.) Listen, you MUST take full responsibility for your choices in life, if you ever want to fully become a man. Yes, you are a grown, late 30s adult male biologically. But spiritually and psychologically, you are still a child or adolescent, because you have not accepted full responsibility for your life and your choices.
Listen, you are old enough now that this is not your religious background's fault anymore. You could blame your culture when you were 30, maybe. But not now that you are 39 or whatever. It is not American culture's fault, either. It's not your wife's fault that you're not attracted to her. It's not your ex's fault that you married your wife. It's not your family's fault that any of this happened.
It's all, completely your fault. (I'm overstating this because I think you need to over-correct your thinking- blame yourself first, then add in a shade of "5% parents contributed" or whatever.) If you continue to search for external explanations for your problems in life, you will continue to fail and have the same problems over and over. Divorcing your wife will only be a temporary solution and another mistake, because you do not know yourself, you have not decided who you are, and you will continue to not take full responsibility for your life, whether or not you are married to her.
You see her as the biggest obstacle to your happiness right now. That is not accurate. In fact, you are the biggest obstacle to your own happiness.
You need to accept that parents are going to act like parents. They will never understand you completely. Women are going to be women. They have different biology and different life choices and concerns from men. This is nature's fault, and it will not change no matter how much you want it to change. They will all age. This is also not their fault, it is just life. I think you will be happier if you realize that, like parents being parents and women being concerned with women's issues, and you know, being human and aging, it is also natural that you will feel attraction to fantasy "others" who will, in your imagination, solve all your problems and make you happier. They will not actually solve all your problems and make you happier. Youth is a terrible thing to base your happiness on, because it is guaranteed to fade. So is "new sexual attraction" because it, too, is virtually guaranteed to fade.
Many people at your age find a deeper satisfaction in having children, or devoting themselves to something greater in their careers that will carry on after they die and give their lives meaning. This is something far less likely to fade, and is therefore a wiser choice to base your long-term happiness on.
Please take some time to seriously discover yourself, think deeply, and take responsibility for your life choices before you act to drastically change your life.
posted by quincunx at 11:49 AM on May 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
You don't say which culture you're coming from so I'm going to address your question as a western woman younger than you. I'm one of those pretty, young, 20-something women you think is going to solve your marriage problems. However, no one like me is going to solve your marriage problems because the problem is you, as other people have addressed.
Do not have a child with your wife, for all the reasons other people explained. That said, it sounds like for cultural reasons, you do not know a lot about sex. Maybe the reason your wife is not getting pregnant is because you're having sex at the wrong time of the month or you're not having sex in a way that could lead to procreation. There are plenty of grown adult people who do not know how penis-in-vagina intercourse works. The internet can help you out with the specific mechanics if you're not sure.
posted by thewestinggame at 12:02 PM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Do not have a child with your wife, for all the reasons other people explained. That said, it sounds like for cultural reasons, you do not know a lot about sex. Maybe the reason your wife is not getting pregnant is because you're having sex at the wrong time of the month or you're not having sex in a way that could lead to procreation. There are plenty of grown adult people who do not know how penis-in-vagina intercourse works. The internet can help you out with the specific mechanics if you're not sure.
posted by thewestinggame at 12:02 PM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
The internet can help you out with the specific mechanics if you're not sure.
Also, a doctor. I find it hard to believe a doctor would be like "i don't know, maybe it's age" for a 30 something woman who is having a hard time conceiving. There's a whole pile of things they can/should try, for both of you.
I don't really understand your question though Is there any win-win situation for my case?
Win/win usually refers to a situation where there is more than one party and everyone gets something out of it. You seem to be using win/win to mean that you personally can win in two ways, which isn't what that saying means. As said above, you can't have the traditional marriage thing and keep trading in for new models. You just can't.
posted by zutalors! at 1:26 PM on May 4, 2016 [13 favorites]
Also, a doctor. I find it hard to believe a doctor would be like "i don't know, maybe it's age" for a 30 something woman who is having a hard time conceiving. There's a whole pile of things they can/should try, for both of you.
I don't really understand your question though Is there any win-win situation for my case?
Win/win usually refers to a situation where there is more than one party and everyone gets something out of it. You seem to be using win/win to mean that you personally can win in two ways, which isn't what that saying means. As said above, you can't have the traditional marriage thing and keep trading in for new models. You just can't.
posted by zutalors! at 1:26 PM on May 4, 2016 [13 favorites]
Response by poster: Many thanks for the overwhelming responses, I didn't expect this!!! One thing to note is that I meant "women" from "girls" in the title. I didn't think this causes confusion and I'd edit it if I could. I found several comments very useful but I just had one choice for the best answer. There were a lot of useful points in many comments but some of them went too extreme since probably it's hard to understand the whole person from one page description. Some people asked if I tested for fertility. Well, to make things clear, we were treating for 3 years, did several IUIs and 3 IVFs...people who have experienced this process would understand what we went through...my fertility tests were normal. During this process, I became very knowledgeable about fertility.Doctors said that with age, women eggs quality goes down and that's why the fertility rate decreases after 30(search it in google). Medical science is not that advanced yet and everything is not clear...There is a clear difference between male and female in fertility. It's biology and like everything in nature is not fair between male and female...but beside this, it's not the main issue since I don't have a strong desire/reason for having kids for now but it might change in future...Some commenters asked if I loved my wife when I married her. Yes, I did love her but mostly this love was with what she presented herself as a patient and mature woman who rises above challenges...but during marriage, the mask was taken off and the picture is not that pretty...These days I have serious doubts about the concept of "love". Do we humans fantasize things with labeling them...or maybe it's just a simple "physical attraction"... science would be a better judge. Having said all those, I still like her and care about her...I am hanging in balance...things are not good nor bad...like a lot of commenters suggested I need to do some self-evaluation and make some hard decisions...
posted by wondering_man at 4:06 PM on May 4, 2016
posted by wondering_man at 4:06 PM on May 4, 2016
It sounds to me like you confuse infatuation with love. You can't love someone you've just met, but you can be infatuated with them. Nine times out of ten, infatuation doesn't go anywhere, as you spend more time (in person time) with the person and realize that you really aren't attracted to them as a whole person, you just got excited by the idea of what you thought they might be. This process is no one's fault, it just happens as we learn more and more about other people. Love grows over time when the more you learn about someone, the more attracted you are to them.
Mistaking infatuation with love is something that happens early on when people become romantically and sexually active. You learn to distinguish the two with experience. It's just that unfortunately you started this process late in life, so therapy or consulting with someone older and wiser from your own culture might help speed up this learning process for you.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:36 PM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mistaking infatuation with love is something that happens early on when people become romantically and sexually active. You learn to distinguish the two with experience. It's just that unfortunately you started this process late in life, so therapy or consulting with someone older and wiser from your own culture might help speed up this learning process for you.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:36 PM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wait, you had your wife undergo IVF and other invasive fertility treatments for years despite you not really wanting kids?
Yeah, dude, regardless of what the hell is going on in that head of yours, you need to let your wife go and find someone who actually cares for her and has similar priorities in life.
posted by Sara C. at 4:37 PM on May 4, 2016 [29 favorites]
Yeah, dude, regardless of what the hell is going on in that head of yours, you need to let your wife go and find someone who actually cares for her and has similar priorities in life.
posted by Sara C. at 4:37 PM on May 4, 2016 [29 favorites]
So. . .you found out your wife wasn't perfect, your idea of which was based on your assumptions about what she was like from talking to her on Skype, and now you don't love her any more?
Dude.
No one is perfect. Not even those hot young women you are lusting after. Not even you. (You think your wife didn't have any unpleasant surprises about you when you guys starting living together? I doubt it.)
You need to really reframe what love means (hint, it's an active verb, like 'struggle') or you are going to find yourself falling into this pattern of infatuation and disillusionment with anyone you are with. Please stop stringing your wife along and let her find someone who is more in line with her life goals and doesn't show her the lack of respect you have in this Ask.
If you want to have a marriage that fits into your traditional cultural modality, go whatever route is traditional, even if that means letting your parents pick your next wife. If you want to have a marriage that fits into how they work in the US, please take EmpressCallipygos' advice and do some work on yourself before jumping into another partnership.
posted by ananci at 5:19 PM on May 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
Dude.
No one is perfect. Not even those hot young women you are lusting after. Not even you. (You think your wife didn't have any unpleasant surprises about you when you guys starting living together? I doubt it.)
You need to really reframe what love means (hint, it's an active verb, like 'struggle') or you are going to find yourself falling into this pattern of infatuation and disillusionment with anyone you are with. Please stop stringing your wife along and let her find someone who is more in line with her life goals and doesn't show her the lack of respect you have in this Ask.
If you want to have a marriage that fits into your traditional cultural modality, go whatever route is traditional, even if that means letting your parents pick your next wife. If you want to have a marriage that fits into how they work in the US, please take EmpressCallipygos' advice and do some work on yourself before jumping into another partnership.
posted by ananci at 5:19 PM on May 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
Any woman who has gone through multiple fertility treatments like your wife has wants a child. If you yourself are not sure, you're doing her a huge, cruel disservice. Like really, that's really wrong.
So I think you should leave her, because she does have time and is willing now to be a good parent. You only have the time.
Also, women can have fertility issues at any age. Unless you're going to take every woman you date to a doctor for a fertility workup, you won't be sure.
Finally, older men who are looking for young women to be their baby carriers are really, really obvious. They will be able to smell it on you.
posted by zutalors! at 6:07 PM on May 4, 2016 [12 favorites]
So I think you should leave her, because she does have time and is willing now to be a good parent. You only have the time.
Also, women can have fertility issues at any age. Unless you're going to take every woman you date to a doctor for a fertility workup, you won't be sure.
Finally, older men who are looking for young women to be their baby carriers are really, really obvious. They will be able to smell it on you.
posted by zutalors! at 6:07 PM on May 4, 2016 [12 favorites]
OP, your response was interesting. 2/3 of it was about the (for lack of a better word) data regarding you and your wife's biological issues. The last bit tacked on was about the emotional factor, which is a pretty doggone big part of any relationship issues. You appeared to blame her, or, IDK, 'misinformation' from anthropology. Trust me- as you don't appear to be an expert in these matters, parsing out your relationship or sexuality issues like so much code- and by yourself- will do no one any good. I'm glad you acknowledge the need for soul-searching.
Please ask yourself: 'Did I put on a mask before the marriage that I pulled off after the honeymoon? And could this possibly be what caused her to 'pull off' hers, if she did indeed have one? Moreover, will I put my mask back on when I'm wooing said younger women?' Because the result will likely be the same.
FYI, I was that older woman (by GASP- FOUR YEARS) and my ex is a western version of you, I suspect. Also, FYI, his kindness and respect towards younger women in my presence, I fully admit, was not appreciated, as this behavior did not apply to me. I didn't pull off any mask. He just hit my limit.
I learned. I hope you do, too, before your next marriage.
posted by JulesER at 6:27 PM on May 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
Please ask yourself: 'Did I put on a mask before the marriage that I pulled off after the honeymoon? And could this possibly be what caused her to 'pull off' hers, if she did indeed have one? Moreover, will I put my mask back on when I'm wooing said younger women?' Because the result will likely be the same.
FYI, I was that older woman (by GASP- FOUR YEARS) and my ex is a western version of you, I suspect. Also, FYI, his kindness and respect towards younger women in my presence, I fully admit, was not appreciated, as this behavior did not apply to me. I didn't pull off any mask. He just hit my limit.
I learned. I hope you do, too, before your next marriage.
posted by JulesER at 6:27 PM on May 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
I agree with JulesER that your wife probably not got what she expected either. Plus, after several years of fertility treatments (I can only begin to imagine how hard that must be) with an unsupportive husband who blames everything on her, how patient would any woman be, let alone the young ones you want? Marriage is about supporting each other, not about having a trophy wife on your arm who pops out your children.
By the way, this 26-year-old (too old for you already?) was just diagnosed with endometriosis, so had you married me instead, you might still not get babies. Not that any woman will probably want you as the father of her children. Would you demand fertility tests before your next marriage? Ask her to get pregnant before you tie the knot?
Plus, even if you consider yourself an "expert" on reproduction now (which you don't sound like), it still doesn't seem as if you were 100% ruled out as the problem.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 10:44 PM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
By the way, this 26-year-old (too old for you already?) was just diagnosed with endometriosis, so had you married me instead, you might still not get babies. Not that any woman will probably want you as the father of her children. Would you demand fertility tests before your next marriage? Ask her to get pregnant before you tie the knot?
Plus, even if you consider yourself an "expert" on reproduction now (which you don't sound like), it still doesn't seem as if you were 100% ruled out as the problem.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 10:44 PM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
she presented herself as a patient and mature woman who rises above challenges...but during marriage, the mask was taken off and the picture is not that pretty...
Perhaps because she's been having IVF with a man for the last three years who doesn't have a strong desire/reason for having kids for now...
Just a thought.
posted by heyjude at 11:21 PM on May 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
Perhaps because she's been having IVF with a man for the last three years who doesn't have a strong desire/reason for having kids for now...
Just a thought.
posted by heyjude at 11:21 PM on May 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
It is encouraging that you seemed to like my answer; thank you.
But I admit I'm about to say something much more harsh now. I am LESS encouraged by the things you said afterward. Because: my answer was about how important it is for you to think for yourself, and decide on your own what is important to you. But in the things you said afterward, you talk a lot about how your wife isn't the same person she was when you married, and how she is behaving, and how that is affecting your opinion of her...and it's also about how the doctors are telling you about how her fertility is affected....
And that is just sounding like you making excuses for the way you think, and blaming the way you think and feel on things that other people are doing.
That habit, blaming your feelings on other people's behavior, is immature. You are blaming your feelings on your wife's behavior, or your parents' pressure, or your culture, or your vague thoughts about wanting children, or anything except you. It's not your fault you feel the way you do, you seem to be trying to tell us.
But a mature man would own the way he thinks. A mature man would recognize how what he has decided and how he is acting and what he values contributes to the situation, rather than trying to say that it's because "the mask has come away" or "I acted this way because of my religious upbringing" or "my culture says this was taboo". A mature man would be saying "I believed this way because of my religious upbringing, but I have changed my mind about that now" or "I believed this was taboo" or whatever.
The reason that I was encouraging you to figure out what you believed and felt on our own was because the next step, after that, is for you to take ownership of what you do and how you feel, rather than blaming it on everyone else around you. You are at a disadvantage because you haven't ever tried to do that, it seems. But that is another reason why it is so important for you to do so - because after you figure out what you want, you need to grow up and actually own how you feel and what you want.
You are saying your wife is acting immature, but you are also acting immature, and I am trying to encourage you to take a big step towards becoming mature. I urge you to consider this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:13 AM on May 5, 2016 [14 favorites]
But I admit I'm about to say something much more harsh now. I am LESS encouraged by the things you said afterward. Because: my answer was about how important it is for you to think for yourself, and decide on your own what is important to you. But in the things you said afterward, you talk a lot about how your wife isn't the same person she was when you married, and how she is behaving, and how that is affecting your opinion of her...and it's also about how the doctors are telling you about how her fertility is affected....
And that is just sounding like you making excuses for the way you think, and blaming the way you think and feel on things that other people are doing.
That habit, blaming your feelings on other people's behavior, is immature. You are blaming your feelings on your wife's behavior, or your parents' pressure, or your culture, or your vague thoughts about wanting children, or anything except you. It's not your fault you feel the way you do, you seem to be trying to tell us.
But a mature man would own the way he thinks. A mature man would recognize how what he has decided and how he is acting and what he values contributes to the situation, rather than trying to say that it's because "the mask has come away" or "I acted this way because of my religious upbringing" or "my culture says this was taboo". A mature man would be saying "I believed this way because of my religious upbringing, but I have changed my mind about that now" or "I believed this was taboo" or whatever.
The reason that I was encouraging you to figure out what you believed and felt on our own was because the next step, after that, is for you to take ownership of what you do and how you feel, rather than blaming it on everyone else around you. You are at a disadvantage because you haven't ever tried to do that, it seems. But that is another reason why it is so important for you to do so - because after you figure out what you want, you need to grow up and actually own how you feel and what you want.
You are saying your wife is acting immature, but you are also acting immature, and I am trying to encourage you to take a big step towards becoming mature. I urge you to consider this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:13 AM on May 5, 2016 [14 favorites]
You're contradicting yourself, and it's because you haven't really fully thought about your life choices. Right now you're just trying to go with the flow and keep all your options open. That is a terrible, immature way to live your life, full stop. As many others have already pointed out.
"I'm not sure I really want kids but I might want kids in the future so it's important I have a perpetually young wife so that when/if I decide I want kids she can bear them for me" is a TERRIBLE, AWFUL, HORRIBLE way to live your life. Seriously. Just...I can't even.
If it were like, "I might like playing video games in the future, so even though I don't like them now, I want to date someone who likes video games just in case"- that would still be stupid and wishy-washy, but it's something trivial and meaningless, so knock yourself out.
Having children or not having children is one of the most important and biggest decisions anyone will ever make in their life, and it's very personal (obviously) for women. Being an adult involves making hard choices. Life involves compromise. No one ever gets to keep all their options open indefinitely.
Don't fuck around with this stuff. This is not on the level of "do I want to wear a red shirt or blue shirt today." It's just not. Wake up.
posted by quincunx at 8:14 AM on May 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
"I'm not sure I really want kids but I might want kids in the future so it's important I have a perpetually young wife so that when/if I decide I want kids she can bear them for me" is a TERRIBLE, AWFUL, HORRIBLE way to live your life. Seriously. Just...I can't even.
If it were like, "I might like playing video games in the future, so even though I don't like them now, I want to date someone who likes video games just in case"- that would still be stupid and wishy-washy, but it's something trivial and meaningless, so knock yourself out.
Having children or not having children is one of the most important and biggest decisions anyone will ever make in their life, and it's very personal (obviously) for women. Being an adult involves making hard choices. Life involves compromise. No one ever gets to keep all their options open indefinitely.
Don't fuck around with this stuff. This is not on the level of "do I want to wear a red shirt or blue shirt today." It's just not. Wake up.
posted by quincunx at 8:14 AM on May 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
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Do you love your wife?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:23 AM on May 4, 2016 [11 favorites]