Help me parse this weird sister-in-law situation
March 3, 2016 10:34 AM Subscribe
I just learned I inadvertantly offended my sister in law four years ago (!!) and now things are weird. Help me figure out my next action
I don't really know my sister in law that well. I first met her when husband and I - then, poor grad students - were still dating. My husband's brother is a very well-off banker, and his wife is a property investor, so our visits with them were always a bit weird and strained. Still, I was always very careful to be thoughtful. I brought birthday gifts, baked cakes, and brought frozen lasagnas and homemade baked goods when they had their first kid. My SIL in particular was always very standoffish, and never asked us any questions about ourselves or our lives.
Six years ago we left the country so husband could pursue a tenure track position. I got a decent job in industry. We're well-paid professionals, and we've done well, but there's still this dynamic at play. We went back to visit about four years ago, and spent two days (at my brother in law's insistence), at BIL and SIL's beach house, with their kids, BIL's parents, and SIL's deeply unpleasant mother.
I gritted my teeth and got through the two days, made an effort to be scrupulously polite, endured an intrusive interrogation of our personal finances from SIL's mother (who was scandalized that we don't own property), and brought gifts for the entire family. BIL insisted that we pay them for the electricity and water used while we stayed (!!). It was four years ago, I have very few memories of specific conversations.
About six months later I went to check SIL's Facebook to dig up birthdays, to make sure we sent cards and gifts on time, and noticed she had defriended me. To be honest, I didn't think too much of this at the time, and just shrugged it off as a weird glitch.
We got married a couple of years later. BIL attended, SIL didn't, and SIL didn't send a gift or any kind of congratulations. Again, I barely noticed this.
Here is the problem: we're heading home for a long-overdue visit in about a month. This morning my husband got an email from his brother asking for my email address, because apparently I had said something to SIL on our last visit that 'upset her a bit', and that SIL was going to email me to 'talk it out.' It should be noted that I've exchanged many emails with BIL and SIL in the past, they both definitely have my email address, and I am very findable online. Husband responded with surprise, asked if he could schedule a call with BIL to discuss. BIL responded by just saying 'prob a good idea.'
For what it's worth, I doubt this email was initiated by SIL. My feeling is she found out we were visiting, had some kind of heated conversation with BIL about Incident, and BIL is trying to smooth things over. I don't think she actually wants to get in contact, but might do so for the sake of BIL.
I am feeling so many emotions. I genuinely have no idea what SIL or BIL are talking about. What I should be feeling is deep remorse that I could have carelessly said something that would have hurt SIL's feelings so much that she's still upset after four years. Let's call this the eat crow route - I should get husband to pass on my email address, get slapped across the face with an angry email, send an apologetic response, and endure a crushingly awkward visit with husband's family.
On the other hand, I sure as shit don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry email from a woman I barely know and don't particularly like, and in turn I really don't want to do a bunch of emotional work repairing a relationship with this woman who's been nothing but rude and dismissive to me over the years I've known her. I'm also furious that this is casting a pall over a long-awaited trip home to see family. Let's call this the fuck it route - I let husband talk it out with his brother, then bow out of any events or visits involving SIL when we're in town.
Again, this woman has been consistently rude, condescending and dismissive to me in my few interactions with her. I hate the thought that I was so careless with my words that I offended her, but our relationship was never great to start with. I genuinely don't know what to do.
I don't really know my sister in law that well. I first met her when husband and I - then, poor grad students - were still dating. My husband's brother is a very well-off banker, and his wife is a property investor, so our visits with them were always a bit weird and strained. Still, I was always very careful to be thoughtful. I brought birthday gifts, baked cakes, and brought frozen lasagnas and homemade baked goods when they had their first kid. My SIL in particular was always very standoffish, and never asked us any questions about ourselves or our lives.
Six years ago we left the country so husband could pursue a tenure track position. I got a decent job in industry. We're well-paid professionals, and we've done well, but there's still this dynamic at play. We went back to visit about four years ago, and spent two days (at my brother in law's insistence), at BIL and SIL's beach house, with their kids, BIL's parents, and SIL's deeply unpleasant mother.
I gritted my teeth and got through the two days, made an effort to be scrupulously polite, endured an intrusive interrogation of our personal finances from SIL's mother (who was scandalized that we don't own property), and brought gifts for the entire family. BIL insisted that we pay them for the electricity and water used while we stayed (!!). It was four years ago, I have very few memories of specific conversations.
About six months later I went to check SIL's Facebook to dig up birthdays, to make sure we sent cards and gifts on time, and noticed she had defriended me. To be honest, I didn't think too much of this at the time, and just shrugged it off as a weird glitch.
We got married a couple of years later. BIL attended, SIL didn't, and SIL didn't send a gift or any kind of congratulations. Again, I barely noticed this.
Here is the problem: we're heading home for a long-overdue visit in about a month. This morning my husband got an email from his brother asking for my email address, because apparently I had said something to SIL on our last visit that 'upset her a bit', and that SIL was going to email me to 'talk it out.' It should be noted that I've exchanged many emails with BIL and SIL in the past, they both definitely have my email address, and I am very findable online. Husband responded with surprise, asked if he could schedule a call with BIL to discuss. BIL responded by just saying 'prob a good idea.'
For what it's worth, I doubt this email was initiated by SIL. My feeling is she found out we were visiting, had some kind of heated conversation with BIL about Incident, and BIL is trying to smooth things over. I don't think she actually wants to get in contact, but might do so for the sake of BIL.
I am feeling so many emotions. I genuinely have no idea what SIL or BIL are talking about. What I should be feeling is deep remorse that I could have carelessly said something that would have hurt SIL's feelings so much that she's still upset after four years. Let's call this the eat crow route - I should get husband to pass on my email address, get slapped across the face with an angry email, send an apologetic response, and endure a crushingly awkward visit with husband's family.
On the other hand, I sure as shit don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry email from a woman I barely know and don't particularly like, and in turn I really don't want to do a bunch of emotional work repairing a relationship with this woman who's been nothing but rude and dismissive to me over the years I've known her. I'm also furious that this is casting a pall over a long-awaited trip home to see family. Let's call this the fuck it route - I let husband talk it out with his brother, then bow out of any events or visits involving SIL when we're in town.
Again, this woman has been consistently rude, condescending and dismissive to me in my few interactions with her. I hate the thought that I was so careless with my words that I offended her, but our relationship was never great to start with. I genuinely don't know what to do.
I would definitely want to get the angry email so that I can figure out what, exactly, I am dealing with, and proceed accordingly.
posted by delight at 10:43 AM on March 3, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by delight at 10:43 AM on March 3, 2016 [24 favorites]
You are all grown-ups. So, throw her an email saying "okay, so today I learned I upset you years ago. I had no idea! Could you let me know what I said, so I can work things out? We are really looking forward to seeing everybody when we are across."
posted by kariebookish at 10:44 AM on March 3, 2016 [92 favorites]
posted by kariebookish at 10:44 AM on March 3, 2016 [92 favorites]
No one holds a grudge about something for four years unless
- it's something that's a huge damned deal. big enough that everyone knows what it was, or
- they are people with severe anxiety or other issues that are affecting their ability to process their own issues like grownups
If her mom's got issues, she probably also has issues. If it were me and I wanted this to go away, I think I'd be proactive, send a message to her and be like "Hey we're going to be seeing each other soon and I just wanted to reach out, see if there's anything that needs talking about, I heard you might have some stuff on your mind?" Totally cheery and somewhat blase and then it's up to her to both let you know WTF she's on about and you don't sit around worrying about it more than you should which is not at all.
In short: don't let her colonize your mind. If she's this weird about it everyone knows it's her and not you and if there was a thing that you could have done differently it's easy enough to be like "Oh hey totally sorry to have dropped the ball on that, so how about that weather huh?" and then just do what you want for the visit, don't stay with them, be gracious but basically play for Team Us and you and your husband can just plan something special for after the whole thing is over and not let it take up any more of your attention. It's just drama. You are fine.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on March 3, 2016 [91 favorites]
- it's something that's a huge damned deal. big enough that everyone knows what it was, or
- they are people with severe anxiety or other issues that are affecting their ability to process their own issues like grownups
If her mom's got issues, she probably also has issues. If it were me and I wanted this to go away, I think I'd be proactive, send a message to her and be like "Hey we're going to be seeing each other soon and I just wanted to reach out, see if there's anything that needs talking about, I heard you might have some stuff on your mind?" Totally cheery and somewhat blase and then it's up to her to both let you know WTF she's on about and you don't sit around worrying about it more than you should which is not at all.
In short: don't let her colonize your mind. If she's this weird about it everyone knows it's her and not you and if there was a thing that you could have done differently it's easy enough to be like "Oh hey totally sorry to have dropped the ball on that, so how about that weather huh?" and then just do what you want for the visit, don't stay with them, be gracious but basically play for Team Us and you and your husband can just plan something special for after the whole thing is over and not let it take up any more of your attention. It's just drama. You are fine.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on March 3, 2016 [91 favorites]
Seconding kariebookish's idea and wording. Proceed as if she is a reasonable person. If she reacts poorly, that's not your problem, and at least you've behaved like a normal and mature adult.
posted by something something at 10:45 AM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:45 AM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yeah, let her email you and/or reach out to her first and prompt a response via one of the well-worded emails above. That has the added benefit of letting your husband see exactly what you're dealing with, instead of getting it through the filter of his brother. You can decide how to proceed from there. (I expect after receiving the email you will want to skip merrily down the fuck it route!)
posted by superfluousm at 10:47 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by superfluousm at 10:47 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I second kariebookish's suggestion! Politely ask her what you have done. While it's a pretty friendly route, it also shows that you have the guts to face the issue head on and seek to resolve it, which SIL obviously hasn't for four years.
posted by amro at 10:47 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by amro at 10:47 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't think your husband should talk it out with his brother. That's just adding fuel and more drama. No no no. Is there any way to backtrack on this now?
Let her email you. Proceed from there.
posted by jbenben at 10:54 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Let her email you. Proceed from there.
posted by jbenben at 10:54 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
this woman has been consistently rude, condescending and dismissive to me in my few interactions with her.
I hate the thought that I was so careless with my words that I offended her
You weren't 'careless with your words.' She already loathed you for no good reason before this supposed incident. This woman is a monstrous asshole and you could spend the rest of your life sucking up to her and taking her abuse without changing that. I am honestly astonished that you think this has a single thing to do with something you did. Like I honestly am not 100% sure this post is even real, that is how bizarre I am finding your reaction to this.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:55 AM on March 3, 2016 [48 favorites]
I hate the thought that I was so careless with my words that I offended her
You weren't 'careless with your words.' She already loathed you for no good reason before this supposed incident. This woman is a monstrous asshole and you could spend the rest of your life sucking up to her and taking her abuse without changing that. I am honestly astonished that you think this has a single thing to do with something you did. Like I honestly am not 100% sure this post is even real, that is how bizarre I am finding your reaction to this.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:55 AM on March 3, 2016 [48 favorites]
BIL insisted that we pay them for the electricity and water used while we stayed (!!).
wat. Who actually does this, especially people of financial means?
Seriously, they sound like the people with the crazy. That said, there's probably no real risk of harm in having a conversation to clear the air. At the very least, you can find out what took place that offended your SIL.
If you honestly can't remember anything that you might have done to "offend" them, it's probably their own issues in their own head
posted by theorique at 10:58 AM on March 3, 2016 [40 favorites]
wat. Who actually does this, especially people of financial means?
Seriously, they sound like the people with the crazy. That said, there's probably no real risk of harm in having a conversation to clear the air. At the very least, you can find out what took place that offended your SIL.
If you honestly can't remember anything that you might have done to "offend" them, it's probably their own issues in their own head
posted by theorique at 10:58 AM on March 3, 2016 [40 favorites]
Some people will never be happy no matter what you do. This is one of them. Let her create whatever drama she wants to create - you'll just offend her if you don't! - and then tell her, in slightly more polite words, that she can go fuck herself.
There really is no way to win. When she sends you this big dramarama about how you sneezed once while she was talking, just reply saying "You're right, that was absolutely the worst thing one person could do to another. It was an accident and I am so sorry. I wish you well and always have. I hope things are better for you in the future."
And then never willingly interact with that entire section of the family again. Life's too short.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [21 favorites]
There really is no way to win. When she sends you this big dramarama about how you sneezed once while she was talking, just reply saying "You're right, that was absolutely the worst thing one person could do to another. It was an accident and I am so sorry. I wish you well and always have. I hope things are better for you in the future."
And then never willingly interact with that entire section of the family again. Life's too short.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [21 favorites]
Definitely go the email route with this because if (when) it turns out to be something hilariously petty, you'll have a written record of it to lol over with your husband for years and years to come.
posted by phunniemee at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [58 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [58 favorites]
She sounds pretty bonkers from what you've written. Paying for utilities while visiting...???
I would neither "eat crow" nor "fuck it." Third option - let it slide off your back like water off a duck.
Contrary to some of the above, I would probably wait and see what comes out of the brothers' conversation and *not* be proactive. In my own experiences with people this untethered from reality it's really hard to get out in front of whatever their perception is. And it's super easy to be misconstrued when you go in there first.
So listen to her, first. Express compassion for her situation and apologize briefly for whatever....and let it go. She's in inhabiting her own personal crazytown.
posted by pantarei70 at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [24 favorites]
I would neither "eat crow" nor "fuck it." Third option - let it slide off your back like water off a duck.
Contrary to some of the above, I would probably wait and see what comes out of the brothers' conversation and *not* be proactive. In my own experiences with people this untethered from reality it's really hard to get out in front of whatever their perception is. And it's super easy to be misconstrued when you go in there first.
So listen to her, first. Express compassion for her situation and apologize briefly for whatever....and let it go. She's in inhabiting her own personal crazytown.
posted by pantarei70 at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2016 [24 favorites]
I think you want the email so you can figure out the situation and respond accordingly. If the message passes through your brother-in-law and husband, both of whom could distort things (BIL may not want to offend your husband and your husband may tone things down for your sake), you won't really know. I suggest you tell your husband to get back to his brother with the idea that you and SIL should try to work things out directly. Then, I would email her and in neutral, reasonable words say that you've heard you offended her, that you don't know what you did (that itself might well bother her but it's the truth and I don't see any way of getting around it), and that you are hoping she can tell you so that the two of you can hopefully work it out.
Maybe you really did say something horribly offensive and just don't remember. Maybe she's particularly and unusually sensitive about some issue and you inadvertently hit upon such a sore spot. Maybe she is totally unreasonable. Maybe she misheard a word you said. (That may seem unlikely, but I was present at an incident in which someone misheard a colleague of mine and thought, incorrectly, that he'd made a horribly offensive comment had been made.) You just don't know. Until you do, don't get invested in any specific response. Maybe you make a brief and somewhat insincere apology so the visit can go forward without much drama (you can sort of see why she's offended and are willing to apologize to keep the peace but think she's gone overboard). Maybe you offer a heartfelt apology (she has a real point). Maybe you decide not to apologize and avoid her going forward (the "fuck it" response to her being unreasonable).
posted by Area Man at 11:04 AM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Maybe you really did say something horribly offensive and just don't remember. Maybe she's particularly and unusually sensitive about some issue and you inadvertently hit upon such a sore spot. Maybe she is totally unreasonable. Maybe she misheard a word you said. (That may seem unlikely, but I was present at an incident in which someone misheard a colleague of mine and thought, incorrectly, that he'd made a horribly offensive comment had been made.) You just don't know. Until you do, don't get invested in any specific response. Maybe you make a brief and somewhat insincere apology so the visit can go forward without much drama (you can sort of see why she's offended and are willing to apologize to keep the peace but think she's gone overboard). Maybe you offer a heartfelt apology (she has a real point). Maybe you decide not to apologize and avoid her going forward (the "fuck it" response to her being unreasonable).
posted by Area Man at 11:04 AM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Does your husband know what this is about? Could he ask his brother? That might be a good way to start, so you're not gobsmacked when this person lays it on you and you can prepare a response.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:04 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 11:04 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm with everyone from showbiz_liz on down; if someone has it out for you and you honestly don't have a clue why, it is in no way incumbent on you to prostrate yourself before her. Some people live under the impression that the person with the most emotions should always get their way, and that's just not healthy.
posted by psoas at 11:05 AM on March 3, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by psoas at 11:05 AM on March 3, 2016 [42 favorites]
I'm in the 'fuck it' lane. Frankly, life is too short to put up with nonsense. By all means send out an email saying, "I had no idea I offended you, I'd like to make amends."
Then give it no more air. You don't give two fucks what this cow thinks of you, and your BIL sounds like no prize himself. (Invited for a weekend, buy you have to PAY, fuck that!) Extract your husband from being an intermediary on this. He needs to be in your corner, but since she has a problem with YOU, you're the one rightly to deal with her.
If she bubbles up with something, deal with it as you wish. You're an adult, while you may need to be cordial to each other, you don't need to be BFFs. If what she's got is just batshit crazy, tell her, "I never intended to slight or upset you. I apologize." Then leave it. Be polite, but keep your distance when you're at family events.
You don't HAVE to spend time with her. Let your husband go over and hang with his brother. You can rest in the hotel, shop, see a movie or any of a number of things that don't have you spending time with someone you don't like.
But seriously, I'll say it again, you don't have to hang out with people you don't like. Ever.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:11 AM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
Then give it no more air. You don't give two fucks what this cow thinks of you, and your BIL sounds like no prize himself. (Invited for a weekend, buy you have to PAY, fuck that!) Extract your husband from being an intermediary on this. He needs to be in your corner, but since she has a problem with YOU, you're the one rightly to deal with her.
If she bubbles up with something, deal with it as you wish. You're an adult, while you may need to be cordial to each other, you don't need to be BFFs. If what she's got is just batshit crazy, tell her, "I never intended to slight or upset you. I apologize." Then leave it. Be polite, but keep your distance when you're at family events.
You don't HAVE to spend time with her. Let your husband go over and hang with his brother. You can rest in the hotel, shop, see a movie or any of a number of things that don't have you spending time with someone you don't like.
But seriously, I'll say it again, you don't have to hang out with people you don't like. Ever.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:11 AM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ugh, this is exactly the kind of thing that makes my own diagnosed anxiety flare up like wildfire. See also, my long distance boss asking me when a good time to skype would be because he wants to ask me something. Queue days of badbrains until it's all over with. If your sister in law is struggling with any sort of brain stuff, do her a solid (even though she doesn't deserve it, IMO) and reach out to her proactively.
Note that I don't think you owe her anything, but for the sake of your own stress levels and family harmony, if you have it within you then reach out first, in text, so you have a record of the undoubtedly ridiculous beef she's got with you.
I mean look, it could be something really awful like she's secretly had a lot of miscarriages and you were blithely talking about getting pregnant and she needs to share that with you, or it could be something stupid as hell like you said you prefer your own home to traveling (and then she's insulted thinking somehow you actually meant you think her home is a dump, etc).
Either way, the end result for you is the same: have her air her grievances, say to her "I never intended to upset you, let's try to put this behind us, okay?" And then when you visit act polite and like all is well. If her issues are with you as a person, you'd still be going on this visit, right? Subsequent interactions can be decided on as they come - just focus on the one trip now.
Family dramz, amirite
posted by Mizu at 11:12 AM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Note that I don't think you owe her anything, but for the sake of your own stress levels and family harmony, if you have it within you then reach out first, in text, so you have a record of the undoubtedly ridiculous beef she's got with you.
I mean look, it could be something really awful like she's secretly had a lot of miscarriages and you were blithely talking about getting pregnant and she needs to share that with you, or it could be something stupid as hell like you said you prefer your own home to traveling (and then she's insulted thinking somehow you actually meant you think her home is a dump, etc).
Either way, the end result for you is the same: have her air her grievances, say to her "I never intended to upset you, let's try to put this behind us, okay?" And then when you visit act polite and like all is well. If her issues are with you as a person, you'd still be going on this visit, right? Subsequent interactions can be decided on as they come - just focus on the one trip now.
Family dramz, amirite
posted by Mizu at 11:12 AM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've said things before (in jest) that have offended people. For example, I said to another teacher that I hated teaching my next class. Wow, did that get twisted around! She was outraged I would say something like that about "the children"... It was years ago and I thought she was a snob anyway, but I watch my tongue a little more now, because I realise there are people out there like that and I have to deal with them. You will have to deal with your SIL as long as your husband is close to his brother. You won't always be able to avoid it, and (if you're like me and have an even slightly sarcastic or self deprecating sense of humor over the absurd) maybe you did offend her and should apologize in a way that is assertive and maintains your dignity.
But It kind of sounds like you had some issue with them having lots of resources
"My husband's brother is a very well-off banker, and his wife is a property investor, so our visits with them were always a bit weird and strained. "
That makes it sound like you weren't taking them in good faith either.
posted by catspajammies at 11:17 AM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
But It kind of sounds like you had some issue with them having lots of resources
"My husband's brother is a very well-off banker, and his wife is a property investor, so our visits with them were always a bit weird and strained. "
That makes it sound like you weren't taking them in good faith either.
posted by catspajammies at 11:17 AM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
What offended her sorta matters - but I don't like the sounds of this lady.
She sounds like someone very close to me that loves to be mad or offended by someone. Thrives on it. That's why your SIL didn't settle this that weekend, or in the thousand+ days since then.
For me the good news is doing the right thing is also what will make her nuts. I would be super gracious and "Oh my gosh, I am sorry you were offended, I didn't mean that you have a face like you sucked on a lemon. My stars, no. Could you pass the wine?"
My gut feeling is she likes drama so much only more drama will really make her happy. Don't give it to her and enjoy your visit.
(Oh god, I wish you'd update this with what she's been upset about for 4 years)
posted by ReluctantViking at 11:18 AM on March 3, 2016 [27 favorites]
She sounds like someone very close to me that loves to be mad or offended by someone. Thrives on it. That's why your SIL didn't settle this that weekend, or in the thousand+ days since then.
For me the good news is doing the right thing is also what will make her nuts. I would be super gracious and "Oh my gosh, I am sorry you were offended, I didn't mean that you have a face like you sucked on a lemon. My stars, no. Could you pass the wine?"
My gut feeling is she likes drama so much only more drama will really make her happy. Don't give it to her and enjoy your visit.
(Oh god, I wish you'd update this with what she's been upset about for 4 years)
posted by ReluctantViking at 11:18 AM on March 3, 2016 [27 favorites]
Saw the headline, read the back story and you are 100% right, this is a "weird sister in law situation". I think you will never be able to smooth over whatever it was that is still causing a grudge 4 years later, so, use whichever path best suits your personality.
(Fwiw, I would take some small pleasure that this woman has been working herself up for four years. What a drain on her it must have been.)
posted by AugustWest at 11:20 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
(Fwiw, I would take some small pleasure that this woman has been working herself up for four years. What a drain on her it must have been.)
posted by AugustWest at 11:20 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
What I should be feeling is deep remorse that I could have carelessly said something that would have hurt SIL's feelings so much that she's still upset after four years.
Aw HELL no you shouldn't. You did nothing wrong. She's an adult. If she had an issue with you that she wanted to deal with, it was on her to say so at the time or in a reasonable time period thereafter.
Your only obligation here is to not make things worse between your husband and his family. His brother made him pay for power and water used over two days at his beach place? She didn't attend your wedding or even acknowledge it? This is way beyond you inadvertently offending someone. You're the proxy by which your husband's family judges him and finds him wanting.
Let her send her screeching email blaming you for everything that's wrong in the world. Reply with "I'm sorry you were offended by that. I certainly had no intention of offending you. I do wish you'd said something earlier so you wouldn't have had to carry this for so long. I hope this clears the air and our upcoming visit can go well for [her husband] and [your husband] and everyone!"
And then don't try. Just don't. It's hard not to care, but don't. You can't win her over, all you can do is be polite. That use up most of your energy anyway.
posted by headnsouth at 11:22 AM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
Aw HELL no you shouldn't. You did nothing wrong. She's an adult. If she had an issue with you that she wanted to deal with, it was on her to say so at the time or in a reasonable time period thereafter.
Your only obligation here is to not make things worse between your husband and his family. His brother made him pay for power and water used over two days at his beach place? She didn't attend your wedding or even acknowledge it? This is way beyond you inadvertently offending someone. You're the proxy by which your husband's family judges him and finds him wanting.
Let her send her screeching email blaming you for everything that's wrong in the world. Reply with "I'm sorry you were offended by that. I certainly had no intention of offending you. I do wish you'd said something earlier so you wouldn't have had to carry this for so long. I hope this clears the air and our upcoming visit can go well for [her husband] and [your husband] and everyone!"
And then don't try. Just don't. It's hard not to care, but don't. You can't win her over, all you can do is be polite. That use up most of your energy anyway.
posted by headnsouth at 11:22 AM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
Look, maybe you did something wrong to upset her, but since she couldn't be an adult and confront you about it YEARS ago, this is not your issue. And yeah, making you pay for water and electricity is crazytown. These people have some interpersonal issues.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:37 AM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:37 AM on March 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is a bit against the tide, so I'll say whether my advice is useful depends on whether it will bother you if you just cut this branch of the family off. Because I know a lot of other folks on this site are able to at least give advice about cutting family members or entire branches of family off without seemingly much concern. That wouldn't be me at all. Even if a family member was acting wonky, it'd still bug me unendingly if there was an unresolved conflict, and I'd dwell on it and stress about it and worry about it even if I had gone no contact with them, for years.
So from my perspective I'd try to approach this as if it were a problem I actually wanted to solve (yes, even though she's probably being crazy and it is her problem that she didn't deal with well), to get on reasonable terms with this family member, even though she's also not been very nice in the past. Not for her peace of mind, but for my own, because my mind loathes a conflict, especially a family conflict - and for the other people in the family who might potential be hurt if I had to carry on a stupid feud with someone for the rest of my living days. I agree that life is too short and that's why I would just try to get on with life, but without estranging her, if possible to do so without much friction. It's so much easier than trying to avoid her and have her mad at you forever. Therefore my approach would differ in the following ways:
1. I would definitely get in touch with her to talk to her about what she was upset about.
2. I would not use text form to contact her. Yes, that's great if I want to LOL about it later, but honestly I think most likely it would just be an angry e-mail that would upset me that I would hate looking at because it would make me feel bad, no matter how crazy or irrational it was.
3. I wouldn't go anywhere near the snark route. People can be so cruel if they don't need to look you in the face, and emotion and nuance are gone. And if you respond with "I'm terribly sorry, I never meant to upset you." it could seem sincere or it could seem snarky i.e. some of the responses above "yes, you're right, everything you say is right and everything I say is wrong, I'm a bad person, sorry about that." sort of thing. Whereas if you actually meet her in person, or at least maybe video chat her or least optimally, talk on the phone, she will hopefully hear in your voice that you are sincere when you apologize and she will be more likely to respond politely.
4. I would apologize, unless it's completely irrational to do so. If it's something that would actually compromise your morals to apologize for because it would be ridiculous and a lie - then don't apologize, maybe try offering a fake apology like "I'm so sorry that you were upset." and see if that flies. I'm assuming it was probably a misunderstanding, in which case I'd apologize in the most sincere way I could.
My way probably isn't going to result in you ever being on great terms with her, but at least you don't have to worry about dodging family activities and doing weird maneuvers to avoid her, and you could have peace of mind for being the bigger person and knowing you tried what you could to avoid a fight. To me that would be worth it. If it would not for you, then you can feel free to take the other advice that's been offered by other responders!
posted by treehorn+bunny at 11:44 AM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
So from my perspective I'd try to approach this as if it were a problem I actually wanted to solve (yes, even though she's probably being crazy and it is her problem that she didn't deal with well), to get on reasonable terms with this family member, even though she's also not been very nice in the past. Not for her peace of mind, but for my own, because my mind loathes a conflict, especially a family conflict - and for the other people in the family who might potential be hurt if I had to carry on a stupid feud with someone for the rest of my living days. I agree that life is too short and that's why I would just try to get on with life, but without estranging her, if possible to do so without much friction. It's so much easier than trying to avoid her and have her mad at you forever. Therefore my approach would differ in the following ways:
1. I would definitely get in touch with her to talk to her about what she was upset about.
2. I would not use text form to contact her. Yes, that's great if I want to LOL about it later, but honestly I think most likely it would just be an angry e-mail that would upset me that I would hate looking at because it would make me feel bad, no matter how crazy or irrational it was.
3. I wouldn't go anywhere near the snark route. People can be so cruel if they don't need to look you in the face, and emotion and nuance are gone. And if you respond with "I'm terribly sorry, I never meant to upset you." it could seem sincere or it could seem snarky i.e. some of the responses above "yes, you're right, everything you say is right and everything I say is wrong, I'm a bad person, sorry about that." sort of thing. Whereas if you actually meet her in person, or at least maybe video chat her or least optimally, talk on the phone, she will hopefully hear in your voice that you are sincere when you apologize and she will be more likely to respond politely.
4. I would apologize, unless it's completely irrational to do so. If it's something that would actually compromise your morals to apologize for because it would be ridiculous and a lie - then don't apologize, maybe try offering a fake apology like "I'm so sorry that you were upset." and see if that flies. I'm assuming it was probably a misunderstanding, in which case I'd apologize in the most sincere way I could.
My way probably isn't going to result in you ever being on great terms with her, but at least you don't have to worry about dodging family activities and doing weird maneuvers to avoid her, and you could have peace of mind for being the bigger person and knowing you tried what you could to avoid a fight. To me that would be worth it. If it would not for you, then you can feel free to take the other advice that's been offered by other responders!
posted by treehorn+bunny at 11:44 AM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm surprised at how unanimous people are in saying your SIL is just a drama-hungry crazy person when you haven't yet even heard what the issue is. I don't think I'm a terrible person (actually, I think I'm pretty nice) but I have definitely inserted my foot so far into my mouth and down my throat that I now cringe to think of it--and I only know to feel embarrassed because the people I said dumb stuff to had the grace to gently let me know and then forgive me when I said I was sorry.
I guess I just don't find it that far-fetched that you said something that unwittingly hit a very sore spot for your SIL. Her response since then as you describe it doesn't sound that drama-stirring or huffy--in fact, most of it is stuff that didn't strike you as aggressive or even as snubbing at the time, and you're just now recasting (possibly correctly, possibly incorrectly) in light of hearing about a problem that you still have very little information about at all.
I don't mesh very easily or well with my in-laws, because our communication styles and expectations of how families should interact are really different, so I feel you on not wanting to dump a lot of emotional energy into a relationship you're pretty tepid on anyway. But there's a difference between contorting yourself to make your SIL like you, and at least being civil enough to give someone you may have unintentionally offended the opportunity to raise the issue directly with you to resolve (or at least to acknowledge). I think unilaterally deciding to cut her out and absent yourself from any event where she will be is likely to create a lot of stress on your husband and his relationship with his brother, and I really think that's extreme without at least trying to make peace with her. You don't have to like her, it's enough to get to a point where you two can be in a room together so your husbands' sibling relationship doesn't take an unneeded hit.
posted by iminurmefi at 11:48 AM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
I guess I just don't find it that far-fetched that you said something that unwittingly hit a very sore spot for your SIL. Her response since then as you describe it doesn't sound that drama-stirring or huffy--in fact, most of it is stuff that didn't strike you as aggressive or even as snubbing at the time, and you're just now recasting (possibly correctly, possibly incorrectly) in light of hearing about a problem that you still have very little information about at all.
I don't mesh very easily or well with my in-laws, because our communication styles and expectations of how families should interact are really different, so I feel you on not wanting to dump a lot of emotional energy into a relationship you're pretty tepid on anyway. But there's a difference between contorting yourself to make your SIL like you, and at least being civil enough to give someone you may have unintentionally offended the opportunity to raise the issue directly with you to resolve (or at least to acknowledge). I think unilaterally deciding to cut her out and absent yourself from any event where she will be is likely to create a lot of stress on your husband and his relationship with his brother, and I really think that's extreme without at least trying to make peace with her. You don't have to like her, it's enough to get to a point where you two can be in a room together so your husbands' sibling relationship doesn't take an unneeded hit.
posted by iminurmefi at 11:48 AM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't know, I think some of these responses are a little callous.
Be empathetic. Clearly, this is important to her. It may be something that you view as small, or something that the hive views as small, but it isn't small for her. And honestly, it doesn't sound like you ever liked her much, and she probably knew that, so an offhand comment may have come across as a bigger slight because she wasn't inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt.
She may be petty and she may not be your favorite person, but if spending time in situations involving her (future "long-awaited trip[s] to see family") are important to you, it really doesn't matter if the matter at hand is big or worthwhile or right in your opinion (or the hive's opinion). She's upset, and if you care at all about her or your relationship with her, that's a bad thing.
If I were you, I'd wait for the email (or send a proactive one), and even if the issue is something silly that wouldn't bug me, I'd try to imagine her perspective and smooth things over as best I can.
It cuts both ways, though - if they treat you or your husband with unkindness, you're entitled to call them out on that too.
I think people are reacting from the perspective of "oh family drama is awful just avoid it" but reacting combatively makes that even worse. I come from a family where two branches don't speak over a longstanding and petty dispute and it really, really sucks to have to plan my trips and interactions with one group around avoiding the other. I doubt your husband, in-laws, or anyone else want to be caught like that - can't you just try to react with kindness, even when it's hard to do?
posted by R a c h e l at 11:48 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Be empathetic. Clearly, this is important to her. It may be something that you view as small, or something that the hive views as small, but it isn't small for her. And honestly, it doesn't sound like you ever liked her much, and she probably knew that, so an offhand comment may have come across as a bigger slight because she wasn't inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt.
She may be petty and she may not be your favorite person, but if spending time in situations involving her (future "long-awaited trip[s] to see family") are important to you, it really doesn't matter if the matter at hand is big or worthwhile or right in your opinion (or the hive's opinion). She's upset, and if you care at all about her or your relationship with her, that's a bad thing.
If I were you, I'd wait for the email (or send a proactive one), and even if the issue is something silly that wouldn't bug me, I'd try to imagine her perspective and smooth things over as best I can.
It cuts both ways, though - if they treat you or your husband with unkindness, you're entitled to call them out on that too.
I think people are reacting from the perspective of "oh family drama is awful just avoid it" but reacting combatively makes that even worse. I come from a family where two branches don't speak over a longstanding and petty dispute and it really, really sucks to have to plan my trips and interactions with one group around avoiding the other. I doubt your husband, in-laws, or anyone else want to be caught like that - can't you just try to react with kindness, even when it's hard to do?
posted by R a c h e l at 11:48 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
These people are obviously in a class of their own. And, they're your husband's people. Let him deal with it. Should you get a ridiculous email, make a brief apology and don't get into any drama-extending flog-a-thon. Do not solicit a conversation about this. Do not make first contact. If she's been simmering for 4 years over something absurd, let her do the work of dealing with it like an adult. You've already done a lot to create a friendly relationship as you're the one managing greeting cards and gifts (frankly, your husband should be doing this, they're his people) and you got not even a measly congratulations in return when you got married! These are people you have to tolerate only. Be civil and distant and don't let their tremendous weirdness and lack of couth (charging guests for electricity?!) ruin your visit. Minimize your time with them and enjoy the company of people who you do like and who like you!
posted by quince at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by quince at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Similar to what showbiz_liz said, I don't think this is your fault, it has to do with your SIL's personality. There is nothing you can do to get her to like you. I endured years of bullying by my SIL (ignored/covered up by everyone else). I went over things again and again in my head, trying to figure out how I offended her. I did nothing. She just chose a specific point/time in which she decided she simply did not like me.
You can go ahead and read the e-mail, but please don't torture yourself over whatever silly thing she has decided that you did to offend her.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
You can go ahead and read the e-mail, but please don't torture yourself over whatever silly thing she has decided that you did to offend her.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
From an anonymous Mefite:
Well, I feel you on this. My own sister has not spoken to me in, jesus, 22 years now. For some imagined slight from my now-ex-husband. And even after I got divorced, she refused to talk with me. To this day, I’m not at all clear what the problem really was. I tried reaching out a few times over the years (the whole range of “can we talk about this?” to “I’m sorry about the whole mess and for whatever I did" to "We don't have to talk but we are family. Can we at least get together for Mom & Dad’s sake?”) but never heard a peep. She even cut off contact from two other siblings and my parents who hadn't had anything to do with anything and who done so much for her and her husband when they tried to gently talk with her about it. Totally stupid. I finally went the fuck it route. I tried and tried and decided I won’t carry that burden anymore.posted by LobsterMitten at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [13 favorites]
So that’s my advice to you. Do not carry the burden of her emotional problems. If she emails you and you legitimately offended her (probably you didn’t), then apologize. If not, let it go. Maybe tell her "That's not a thing I am sorry for./I did not do that. We don't have to be friends but since we are related, I expect us to be able to have a polite relationship for the duration of the visit." Nothing you can do will make her happy. So don’t waste your time. Go where you want for the visit. If she starts giving you shit, "SIL, I am not going to discuss this. We are here to visit family." If she persists, "SIL, I am here to visit. If you persist, I/we will leave." If she still goes on, leave. Obviously you'll need to get your husband on board with whatever plan but really life is too short for this shit. Let it go.
I hate the thought that I was so careless with my words that I offended her, but our relationship was never great to start with.
Obviously, I don’t know you but are you really the sort of person who would casually be shitty to someone and not notice? If you were, you wouldn’t be asking this question here. Do not shoulder this burden. She is a grown ass woman. If she has a problem, she needs to use her fucking words. Not sit and sulk for four (or 22) years. Do not shoulder this burden. Good luck.
Oh jeezum crow, this lady sounds like a fruit loop.
On the other hand, I sure as shit don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry email from a woman I barely know and don't particularly like, and in turn I really don't want to do a bunch of emotional work repairing a relationship with this woman who's been nothing but rude and dismissive to me over the years I've known her. I'm also furious that this is casting a pall over a long-awaited trip home to see family. Let's call this the fuck it route - I let husband talk it out with his brother, then bow out of any events or visits involving SIL when we're in town.
Yes, yes, yes. Do not engage. It sounds like she loooooves drama, and as long as you have a relationship with her there will always be something. If it's worth it to maintain a relationship then you know what you are getting into. But it sounds like you don't like her very much, she is rude and disrespectful, and you don't live close to each other. I choose option b.
posted by pintapicasso at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I sure as shit don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry email from a woman I barely know and don't particularly like, and in turn I really don't want to do a bunch of emotional work repairing a relationship with this woman who's been nothing but rude and dismissive to me over the years I've known her. I'm also furious that this is casting a pall over a long-awaited trip home to see family. Let's call this the fuck it route - I let husband talk it out with his brother, then bow out of any events or visits involving SIL when we're in town.
Yes, yes, yes. Do not engage. It sounds like she loooooves drama, and as long as you have a relationship with her there will always be something. If it's worth it to maintain a relationship then you know what you are getting into. But it sounds like you don't like her very much, she is rude and disrespectful, and you don't live close to each other. I choose option b.
posted by pintapicasso at 11:49 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
There is no scenario in which she is being reasonable about this. The adult thing to do would have been to mention to you at the time of the original offense how hurt she was by it. Instead, she's been holding a grudge and acting out passive-aggressively at you for the last four years. That is a childish way to act.
Go ahead and email her directly, politely apologize in advance and request to talk about the situation. She will almost certainly interpret you emailing her directly as yet another offense against her and will double down in her efforts to avoid you. My guess is that you she'll never really tell you why she's pissed, she might not even remember why. She likely realizes that the whole thing is a huge nothingburger, so she doesn't want to vocalize the issue, but she wants to continue to make it into something because she gets off on seeing you as the bad guy and herself as the aggrieved party.
posted by scantee at 11:51 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Go ahead and email her directly, politely apologize in advance and request to talk about the situation. She will almost certainly interpret you emailing her directly as yet another offense against her and will double down in her efforts to avoid you. My guess is that you she'll never really tell you why she's pissed, she might not even remember why. She likely realizes that the whole thing is a huge nothingburger, so she doesn't want to vocalize the issue, but she wants to continue to make it into something because she gets off on seeing you as the bad guy and herself as the aggrieved party.
posted by scantee at 11:51 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
My 2 cents: The Facebook defriend and your totally normal reaction to it is a bigger part of the story. I've seen this play out in my drama-loving family contingent (thankfully they're a small and distant part of my family, but they are fascinating!) The Facebook thing goes like this: terrible offense happens, SIL unfriends you because HOW COULD YOU. You - being a normal person uninterested in drama- do not notice unfriending. When you finally do six months later, you don't remark on it because again, you're a normal. But in SIL Drama world, you noticed unfriending immediately, took huge offense, and then - by not apologizing- doubled down on your initial offense, which in her mind was intentional. that's two offenses in her book. She's probably been using BIL's fb and stalking your emails and fb for four years, wondering if you would send her a friend request and apology, probably getting offended with every non-drama update you make, as though you've been intentionally mocking her and her hurt feelings. I'm telling you this not to make you feel even worse, but to give you some insight into her drama-loving mind.
Also: husband and you should tread very lightly with BIL. It's sad, but he's surrounded by the drama and has probably absorbed it. I raised my eyebrows big time at his, "Probably for the best" response. And the insincere "asking for your email address" query is suspicious. Husband probably has to call him now - since he offered and I wish he hadn't, although I get it. Try to be prepared for husband and BIL to also have a somewhat intense confrontation about this. Hopefully husband can disguise the incredulity he will naturally feel when confronted with whatever the nonsense is. It's probably hardest on your husband, who unfortunately may be losing a relationship with his brother. That is so sad and its 100% not your fault, but I bet the in-laws are in a "us vs. the world" situation. Hopefully you and husband can find a way to quickly apologize, then graciously interact with SIL and have a good time with other family members. I'm confident she has brought similar drama to other family encounters. With time, family and hopefully even BIL will understand where the drama is originating from. And you'll be the nice, normal couple who never had a bad word to say about SIL or BIL and are much more fun to be around. And once this situation hopefully clears, be very very careful about any one-on-one conversations you have with SIL, particularly if she's criticizing another family member. Do not engage. If you at all agree with her, 100% chance she will then go to family member and tell them the terrible things you said about them.
posted by areaperson at 11:57 AM on March 3, 2016 [15 favorites]
Also: husband and you should tread very lightly with BIL. It's sad, but he's surrounded by the drama and has probably absorbed it. I raised my eyebrows big time at his, "Probably for the best" response. And the insincere "asking for your email address" query is suspicious. Husband probably has to call him now - since he offered and I wish he hadn't, although I get it. Try to be prepared for husband and BIL to also have a somewhat intense confrontation about this. Hopefully husband can disguise the incredulity he will naturally feel when confronted with whatever the nonsense is. It's probably hardest on your husband, who unfortunately may be losing a relationship with his brother. That is so sad and its 100% not your fault, but I bet the in-laws are in a "us vs. the world" situation. Hopefully you and husband can find a way to quickly apologize, then graciously interact with SIL and have a good time with other family members. I'm confident she has brought similar drama to other family encounters. With time, family and hopefully even BIL will understand where the drama is originating from. And you'll be the nice, normal couple who never had a bad word to say about SIL or BIL and are much more fun to be around. And once this situation hopefully clears, be very very careful about any one-on-one conversations you have with SIL, particularly if she's criticizing another family member. Do not engage. If you at all agree with her, 100% chance she will then go to family member and tell them the terrible things you said about them.
posted by areaperson at 11:57 AM on March 3, 2016 [15 favorites]
SIL sounds like a jerk, at least when it comes to you. It's really petty to be angry about something that was said by a family member four years ago that wasn't meant as a huge insult. Insist SIL contact you directly. Tell her you didn't mean to offend her. If she proceeds to be a jerk, ignore her behaviors.
posted by Kalmya at 12:00 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Kalmya at 12:00 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
You say that SIL is "consistently rude, condescending and dismissive". To be honest it is very easy to label someone this way based on misunderstanding of non-verbal cues. Wars have been started because of these kinds of misunderstandings. I have been labeled by coworkers this way when I have absolutely no interactions with them and based solely on gossip. It sounds like there is a large cultural divide here that just needs to find a little bit of common ground. It may not be possible to be good, back-slapping friends but you can still find a way to be civil with each other and to get beyond mutually self-assured destruction over simple misunderstandings.
Defriending you on Facebook or charging for electricity as a guest are weird things but I wouldn't call them rude. Consider it their foreign custom like the Japanese require you to take your shoes off when entering their house. I sure wouldn't be furious over a Facebook defriending.
Start with the assumption that she is not an evil person and call her - don't email. Open the conversation with an icebreaker story but just be open with her that if you can't be friends that at least you can find a way towards détente.
posted by JJ86 at 12:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Defriending you on Facebook or charging for electricity as a guest are weird things but I wouldn't call them rude. Consider it their foreign custom like the Japanese require you to take your shoes off when entering their house. I sure wouldn't be furious over a Facebook defriending.
Start with the assumption that she is not an evil person and call her - don't email. Open the conversation with an icebreaker story but just be open with her that if you can't be friends that at least you can find a way towards détente.
posted by JJ86 at 12:01 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
It seems to me like you are trying as hard as you can to care for this little plant of a relationship and make it flourish. You are giving it fertilizer every year, watering it weekly, putting on some sweet folk tunes because you read an article that said folk music helps plants grow. But it turns out, it's just a plastic fern.
You are expending so much labor on this relationship with your Sister-in-Law, and are getting nothing in return - even before she got offended by you. You're getting worse than nothing - you're getting drama and shit that's on the cusp of poisoning your brother's relationship with his brother.
I don't know, maybe you really get a kick out of gardening - such internally-directed joy that you don't care if the relationship will ever blossom. But if that's not true, I really think you should consider putting the responsibility back on your husband to maintain the relationship between him and his brother and his brother's family. Cheerfully do whatever needs to be done now, and say whatever needs to be said, to get through this drama and get back to a civil relationship, then hand your calendar to your husband and let him worry about whether his brother gets a birthday card on time. I suspect that you will be able to emotionally weather the petty family dramas when you're not expending so much mental attention to someone who has never reciprocated.
posted by muddgirl at 12:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
You are expending so much labor on this relationship with your Sister-in-Law, and are getting nothing in return - even before she got offended by you. You're getting worse than nothing - you're getting drama and shit that's on the cusp of poisoning your brother's relationship with his brother.
I don't know, maybe you really get a kick out of gardening - such internally-directed joy that you don't care if the relationship will ever blossom. But if that's not true, I really think you should consider putting the responsibility back on your husband to maintain the relationship between him and his brother and his brother's family. Cheerfully do whatever needs to be done now, and say whatever needs to be said, to get through this drama and get back to a civil relationship, then hand your calendar to your husband and let him worry about whether his brother gets a birthday card on time. I suspect that you will be able to emotionally weather the petty family dramas when you're not expending so much mental attention to someone who has never reciprocated.
posted by muddgirl at 12:13 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
My SIL has absolutely never liked anyone in the family except my brother. I have managed to offend her about 17 billion times in the 21 years she and my brother have been married. We have strained, polite conversations when we need to be together (the same type of strained, polite conversations she has with everyone in my side of the family because SHE HATES US) and then we go on with our lives. Her hating us and me specifically has not been alleviated one whit by the fact that I have bailed her and my brother out of losing their house several times through injections of money they have never paid me back.
Is it going to resolve? No. Am I going to suddenly desert that side of the family because she's a pain and she doesn't like us? No. She's a part of the family, and she is difficult, but she's part of the family, and I can walk away from her when any situation is done. Just face whatever you did to "offend" your SIL, grovel if you want, ignore it if you want, and treat it as if it's an annoying set of mosquitoes or sand in your picnic. Some things never really get better, but they aren't worth more than the occasional bitching online or to your friends about.
posted by xingcat at 12:15 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Is it going to resolve? No. Am I going to suddenly desert that side of the family because she's a pain and she doesn't like us? No. She's a part of the family, and she is difficult, but she's part of the family, and I can walk away from her when any situation is done. Just face whatever you did to "offend" your SIL, grovel if you want, ignore it if you want, and treat it as if it's an annoying set of mosquitoes or sand in your picnic. Some things never really get better, but they aren't worth more than the occasional bitching online or to your friends about.
posted by xingcat at 12:15 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Let your husband deal with his brother and sister and law. Under no circumstances stay at their house ever again while in town visiting. If you must, meet for lunch or dinner at a neutral location. You owe these assholes nothing and it's not your problem to fix, it's your husband's.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 12:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 12:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
There are a ton of great answers so far. I personally can't make time for petty family drama. Life is too short.
I did want to comment on one thing, though. You said, "my husband's brother is a very well-off banker, and his wife is a property investor, so our visits with them were always a bit weird and strained." I guess I don't see it as a given that visits woud be strained just because one group of people makes more money than another. Certainly the people who make more money can make it weird and strained, but it doesn't have to be that way. Make sure you're not going into interactions with them with a preconceived notion that of course it's going to go badly because they live a different lifestyle. Maybe they pick up on that attitude and react badly to it...
posted by primethyme at 12:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
I did want to comment on one thing, though. You said, "my husband's brother is a very well-off banker, and his wife is a property investor, so our visits with them were always a bit weird and strained." I guess I don't see it as a given that visits woud be strained just because one group of people makes more money than another. Certainly the people who make more money can make it weird and strained, but it doesn't have to be that way. Make sure you're not going into interactions with them with a preconceived notion that of course it's going to go badly because they live a different lifestyle. Maybe they pick up on that attitude and react badly to it...
posted by primethyme at 12:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
She's rude. This is rude and stupid. You either suck it up and be polite for a few seconds when you have to see someone you don't like, or don't see each other. Or bring it up before 4 fucking years have passed. This demanding an apology before she will grace you with her presence is stupid Princess bullshit.
Make yourself look good and say you are bewildered and so sorry and really genuinely don't understand what happened. Seem super concerned and nice and make her look bitchy. I agree that writing this down will help with having proof later who was rude and who was not. If her story is BS (it will be) apologize and move on. She will find something new to be upset about and then you can cut her off without drama and stop caring. But make yourself look good first.
posted by quincunx at 12:37 PM on March 3, 2016
Make yourself look good and say you are bewildered and so sorry and really genuinely don't understand what happened. Seem super concerned and nice and make her look bitchy. I agree that writing this down will help with having proof later who was rude and who was not. If her story is BS (it will be) apologize and move on. She will find something new to be upset about and then you can cut her off without drama and stop caring. But make yourself look good first.
posted by quincunx at 12:37 PM on March 3, 2016
Exact same thing happened to me. I was blessed with a very comfortable, upper middle class upbringing....my parents paid for my college, etc.. My (ex ) sister in law is incredibly smart but didn't have the same advantages and I said something years (YEARS) ago that hurt her feelings. She is incredibly shy, I'm a big mouth....I didn't find out that I had offended her till several years after the fact. I still don't know what exactly it was that I said.....it was something about going to college. But, I don't doubt I did it. I was immature and not very sensitive in my younger years. People are sensitive about different things, it may not make sense but it is what it is. I was horrified that I might have hurt her....I knew my SIL would be horrified if I brought it up so I made my then husband talk to his brother.....I put the word out through my mother in law that I would have never knowingly hurt her feelings and then I was just very careful from then on out. As we got older.....she wasn't so sensitive and I learned to temper my mouth...we got along great. I still feel bad that I hurt her even though I'm not completely clear on what happened. It was just a lesson for me to watch my big mouth.
posted by pearlybob at 12:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pearlybob at 12:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Should you bother, depends on your brother's relationship with his brother. I feel like, life is long (hopefully). Issues with parents come up when they get old, and then after they go (inheritance, etc). Even if their relationship is ambivalent, your husband and BIL will probably have to at least tolerate and maybe work together on some things, at some point, even if over long distance. This is clearly an issue for BIL's wife, maybe one that would cause a wedge. Then all the hard things will get harder. If they're not abusive/toxic - personally, I would bother. (I mean they do sound... complicated. The paying for electricity thing is crazypants to me, but they're not the only ones who feel strongly about that sort of thing, even with family. Abusive? Maybe? Only you or your husband can tell us.) Because really, the impact on your life will come down to a few occasions - every few years - but the impact on your husband of an (even more) soured relationship with his brother may hurt him deeply when it comes to the big heavy things later on.
If you were a poor grad school student back then, maybe feeling judged and trying hard, bringing cakes, etc. it's possible you felt defensive because of her behaviour, and maybe blundered on a reactive judgement of her lifestyle. I'm betting it was some inadvertent toe-stepping-on value clash like that. And I guess she is sensie :/
What to do, if you want to bother, yes, find out via email. That might be better, in that it will give you time to compose a careful response. I think it's one thing (and fine) to feel breezy about it (because you don't actually care about doing mani-pedis together or whatever), but I think, do try to match her tone & be sincere when you communicate with her. She's felt hurt (obviously); it would be a(nother) slap in the face if you came across as cavalier.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you were a poor grad school student back then, maybe feeling judged and trying hard, bringing cakes, etc. it's possible you felt defensive because of her behaviour, and maybe blundered on a reactive judgement of her lifestyle. I'm betting it was some inadvertent toe-stepping-on value clash like that. And I guess she is sensie :/
What to do, if you want to bother, yes, find out via email. That might be better, in that it will give you time to compose a careful response. I think it's one thing (and fine) to feel breezy about it (because you don't actually care about doing mani-pedis together or whatever), but I think, do try to match her tone & be sincere when you communicate with her. She's felt hurt (obviously); it would be a(nother) slap in the face if you came across as cavalier.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:44 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
There is no scenario wherein charging a guest - your own brother!! - for electricity use (!!) at your own guest cottage isn't batshit nuts and horrible. These people are bizarre and terrible. I'm sorry you're having to deal with them, and I'm sorry it's casting a pall over your visit.
If your insane SIL wants to email you, fine. Read it - it ought to be a curious bit of literature. There may be something in it that's interesting - honestly your description of the economic difference necessarily making your visits weird do kind of make me wonder what you said to her - but you don't need to flagellate yourself, in any case. And, unless you think a great leap forward love-wise has been made, I'd avoid visiting them. Your husband can visit his brother if he wants, of course, but there's no reason you should feel obligated to join in the fun.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:46 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
If your insane SIL wants to email you, fine. Read it - it ought to be a curious bit of literature. There may be something in it that's interesting - honestly your description of the economic difference necessarily making your visits weird do kind of make me wonder what you said to her - but you don't need to flagellate yourself, in any case. And, unless you think a great leap forward love-wise has been made, I'd avoid visiting them. Your husband can visit his brother if he wants, of course, but there's no reason you should feel obligated to join in the fun.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:46 PM on March 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
If I were you, I would avoid SIL and BIL in the future wherever possible. They sound highly toxic. Good for you (?) for taking the high road all this time. But I would also want to receive that email containing the alleged slight that happened 4 years back. For reference's sake.
posted by kinoeye at 12:49 PM on March 3, 2016
posted by kinoeye at 12:49 PM on March 3, 2016
Okay, this does sound rather outrageous to me, but.
This is your husband's family; how you deal with it will unfortunately have repercussions on how his family deals with him. If nothing else, your BIL may keep coming back to him trying to "smooth things out" (whatever "things" are). Family politics get complicated, too, dragging in other family members and forming factions and... yeah, it can be a mess.
Do you know whether it's important to him? Does he care if--for example--the rest of his family decides to view you as a troublemaker, and view him as supporting you in making trouble? You did not initiate this, but how you respond to it can affect his relationship with his family.
As a sort of parallel: If it were my husband & his family, I would be willing to cope with a reasonable amount of discomfort with one person, in order to let him maintain normal-ish family relationships (in fact, I have). I would not be willing to cope with an unreasonable amount of crazy, and that has made thingss interesting occasionally. But contrariwise, my family is such that anyone starting crazy gets to deal with their own crazy without conciliation; trying to keep peace would be futile. So I would not even ask him to try, if someone started stirring things up.
Different families, different priorities, you know? What's his priority? If he doesn't care, no big deal. If he does care, is it possible to resolve [whatever this is], in a way that lets him preserve his family priorities, that is reasonable for you? I'm not suggesting you should be miserable and self-sacrificing, of course. Everything within reason.
posted by galadriel at 12:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is your husband's family; how you deal with it will unfortunately have repercussions on how his family deals with him. If nothing else, your BIL may keep coming back to him trying to "smooth things out" (whatever "things" are). Family politics get complicated, too, dragging in other family members and forming factions and... yeah, it can be a mess.
Do you know whether it's important to him? Does he care if--for example--the rest of his family decides to view you as a troublemaker, and view him as supporting you in making trouble? You did not initiate this, but how you respond to it can affect his relationship with his family.
As a sort of parallel: If it were my husband & his family, I would be willing to cope with a reasonable amount of discomfort with one person, in order to let him maintain normal-ish family relationships (in fact, I have). I would not be willing to cope with an unreasonable amount of crazy, and that has made thingss interesting occasionally. But contrariwise, my family is such that anyone starting crazy gets to deal with their own crazy without conciliation; trying to keep peace would be futile. So I would not even ask him to try, if someone started stirring things up.
Different families, different priorities, you know? What's his priority? If he doesn't care, no big deal. If he does care, is it possible to resolve [whatever this is], in a way that lets him preserve his family priorities, that is reasonable for you? I'm not suggesting you should be miserable and self-sacrificing, of course. Everything within reason.
posted by galadriel at 12:49 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
endured an intrusive interrogation of our personal finances from SIL's mother (who was scandalized that we don't own property), and brought gifts for the entire family. BIL insisted that we pay them for the electricity and water used while we stayed
These are terrible people. If I was in your shoes I would tell my spouse that life is way too short to deal with ridiculous people like this and their nonsense problems. If it's super important for him to schedule some painful obligatory visit with them during your trip back home, you can go see a movie or do something with not-awful family members while he does that.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
These are terrible people. If I was in your shoes I would tell my spouse that life is way too short to deal with ridiculous people like this and their nonsense problems. If it's super important for him to schedule some painful obligatory visit with them during your trip back home, you can go see a movie or do something with not-awful family members while he does that.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
JFC. This person is a property investor, which requires a certain amount of communication skillz, yes? And her reaction to being offended was to not communicate about it and defriend you on Fakebook? Were I in your shoes, I'd tell my wife to tell her brother to tell his wife to call me on my goddamned phone, like an adult does when something is bothering him or her, and otherwise STFU about it. I'd continue offering support to my wife for the stress that she's feeling, but as far as any hypothetical problems that BIL or SIL have, they're not mine.
They're his family, so they're your family also. But family doesn't get an automatic pass. The awkward here is coming from inside the SIL! And you don't need to do anything to help resolve it.
posted by disconnect at 12:55 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
They're his family, so they're your family also. But family doesn't get an automatic pass. The awkward here is coming from inside the SIL! And you don't need to do anything to help resolve it.
posted by disconnect at 12:55 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
what does your husband think would be best? in my experience dealing with weird in-laws the most critical thing is a united front. so you need to negotiate not just with them, but also with him (obvs he should be pretty much behind you, but still, if you're unsure which way to go, pick the route that's best for both of you).
otherwise, as a bunch of other people are saying: sounds weird; get more info; keep your options open.
posted by andrewcooke at 1:02 PM on March 3, 2016
otherwise, as a bunch of other people are saying: sounds weird; get more info; keep your options open.
posted by andrewcooke at 1:02 PM on March 3, 2016
Your response to her attempts to punish you--unfriending and acting snotty--elicited a shoulder shrug and ignore from you, which bothered her even further. Not that it was incorrect of you to respond in such a way. She could have been an adult and used her words instead of taking the PA Road, but she didn't. So now, she actually has to email you and explain whatever the fuck. That should be telling.
posted by SillyShepherd at 1:03 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by SillyShepherd at 1:03 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, not to defend them charging y'all for electricity & water but... in some coastal areas, or especially if you are on an island, utilities can be crazy expensive. BIL & SIL may have actually considered that they were being somewhat generous by not charging rent. I know it sounds bizarre, but I have run into this situation before, on a women's retreat where we stayed at a member's island home and she asked us to pitch in for utilities. (I know, I know, you're family, they invited you, etc., etc., I'm not disagreeing with that, just trying to provide a possible explanation that's not completely bonkers.)
Also, nursing a grudge for four years seems kind of sad. My two cents-- get her explanation (by phone or email), apologize if you possibly can, and say, I hope we can put this behind us. I do think email can be difficult, especially when you don't know somebody well. If you do get an email explanation, consider picking up the phone to apologize/explain. It may make subsequent interactions less painful.
posted by tuesdayschild at 1:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, nursing a grudge for four years seems kind of sad. My two cents-- get her explanation (by phone or email), apologize if you possibly can, and say, I hope we can put this behind us. I do think email can be difficult, especially when you don't know somebody well. If you do get an email explanation, consider picking up the phone to apologize/explain. It may make subsequent interactions less painful.
posted by tuesdayschild at 1:05 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
(I mean she sounds "sensie" in that brittle, self-obsessed, hyper-sensitive, grudge-holding, emotionally constipated, passive-aggressive way. I bet her husband's taking a lot of heat for this now :/ So she is awful but probably tormented most of the time. It's hard to feel for people who [I guess kind of?] direct aggression towards you, but this is probably all she's able to do, I guess bear that in mind if it will help.) Um earlier: *HUSBAND's relationship with his brother
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:21 PM on March 3, 2016
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:21 PM on March 3, 2016
People looking for reasons not to talk to you will find reasons not to talk to you. I'd send a similar email to the one kariebookish suggested, her reaction will guide how you proceed.
posted by wwax at 1:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by wwax at 1:27 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would opt for the email for many reasons, mostly so I could read about the problem and calm down if necessary before replying. If you were Facebook friends, it could have happened on there. Let your husband give them your email address, since maybe they are just making sure it is still the same.
posted by soelo at 1:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by soelo at 1:30 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't completely cut these people off just yet. Stay polite and get through your visit. If for no other reason that if you have kids or plan on having them then they may want to build relationships with their cousins, and also the eventual end of life/estate stuff your husband and his brother will have to deal with as their parents age.
I'm wondering if it is something you may have said to your SIL's mother that your SIL took offence to. Like if she was being all scandalized because you weren't a property owner and then you said something that sounded dismissive about property or property owners.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:38 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm wondering if it is something you may have said to your SIL's mother that your SIL took offence to. Like if she was being all scandalized because you weren't a property owner and then you said something that sounded dismissive about property or property owners.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:38 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
For someone you say that you "barely notice," you've invested a lot of energy over the years in retaining and cataloging your grievances against your sister-in-law. Stuff I barely notice, I don't remember. As I read your question, it felt very disingenuous to me.
I'm going to put out there that it would be fairly easy to be unkind to someone you think is " rude, condescending and dismissive." Maybe you've been perfect, and she's just horrible. Maybe it's that black and white, but human interactions rarely are.
Email the woman and ask her what's up. kariebookish's script is a good one.
posted by 26.2 at 1:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm going to put out there that it would be fairly easy to be unkind to someone you think is " rude, condescending and dismissive." Maybe you've been perfect, and she's just horrible. Maybe it's that black and white, but human interactions rarely are.
Email the woman and ask her what's up. kariebookish's script is a good one.
posted by 26.2 at 1:40 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
One more thing.
Some people are just WEIRD about in-laws. In-laws are after all a very strange relationship. All of a sudden, you're asked to pretend that someone, whom you maybe never even met before, and certainly didn't choose to be related to, is your relative, just because they're related by blood to someone that you married.
Sometimes in-laws love each other and it all works out great. Sometimes they don't but they behave themselves anyway. But some people NEVER stop resenting the intrusion of strangers into their family, and go absolutely freaking bonkers. I have seen this myself, in people who are otherwise kind and generous. They just cannot stand having their family circle enlarged by fiat in this way.
What I am saying is that it is possible that your BIL and SIL are not otherwise insane and horrible, but only insane and horrible to you and your husband in the context of this particular familial relationship. Not that it makes it any better, but it may make you feel less obligated to hang out with them.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:45 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Some people are just WEIRD about in-laws. In-laws are after all a very strange relationship. All of a sudden, you're asked to pretend that someone, whom you maybe never even met before, and certainly didn't choose to be related to, is your relative, just because they're related by blood to someone that you married.
Sometimes in-laws love each other and it all works out great. Sometimes they don't but they behave themselves anyway. But some people NEVER stop resenting the intrusion of strangers into their family, and go absolutely freaking bonkers. I have seen this myself, in people who are otherwise kind and generous. They just cannot stand having their family circle enlarged by fiat in this way.
What I am saying is that it is possible that your BIL and SIL are not otherwise insane and horrible, but only insane and horrible to you and your husband in the context of this particular familial relationship. Not that it makes it any better, but it may make you feel less obligated to hang out with them.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:45 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is not your circus, not your monkeys. I mean, if she grows up and wants to talk to you about something, sure, talk to her. Otherwise, this is really not something you need to think about for five more seconds.
If she had wanted to talk to you about this originally it would be one thing. But sending an envoy and making it go through all these channels is batshit. Be polite and kind but you really don't need to give a single shit about any of this until someone actually bothers to speak to you.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:48 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
If she had wanted to talk to you about this originally it would be one thing. But sending an envoy and making it go through all these channels is batshit. Be polite and kind but you really don't need to give a single shit about any of this until someone actually bothers to speak to you.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:48 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Sorry, to be more constructive: I would literally ignore this until it showed up at my door. Treat them like normal, if you see them in person, say "oh there was something you wanted to talk about?" if there's an opportune moment. Otherwise you have done nothing and this is sheer idiocy.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:50 PM on March 3, 2016
posted by stoneandstar at 1:50 PM on March 3, 2016
To add to my earlier answer:
Are you familiar with the idea of the five love languages? You worked hard to show kindness to that family through gifts, which is wonderful, and sounds like it means a lot to you. Bluntly, gifts may not mean as much to them. That may have exacerbated your perception of how socioeconomic differences affected your relationship (as others have pointed out, not all socioeconomically unbalanced relationships are strained!) and how a very transactional request (the utilities) affected you. To you, that seems like they rescinded a gift, while to them, it may not have been intended that way (it's still totally weird, but maybe they're just quirky or it's the "done" thing in her family for whatever reason).
If SIL "speaks" another language, she may not have understood the kindness you intended with the gifts nor the weirdness/uncomfortableness of asking for utilities. Instead, she may have tried to demonstrate care through a love language that is more significant to her, say, acts of service (say, cleaning for y'all) or quality time (such as taking time off work for the visit) and may have felt like she didn't get that care back - which may have made her think that you didn't like her or care about your relationship even though it was just a kind of miscommunication.
You say that she's condescending and rude - maybe the fact that you didn't seem to notice/care that you haven't spoken in four years and she didn't attend your wedding made her feel the same way? Whether or not it's fair, she may have been expecting you/your husband to ask after her and instead you blatantly demonstrated that her role in your life means nothing to you (I know weddings are crazy, but still, you noticed she was absent and yet didn't ask after her).
She may be a crazy horrible vindictive witch who you just need to cut out of your life but also she may be someone you're just not very compatible with who has poor conflict resolution skills to boot. What's wrong with giving her the benefit of the doubt and trying to salvage a friendly (if distant) relationship?
posted by R a c h e l at 1:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are you familiar with the idea of the five love languages? You worked hard to show kindness to that family through gifts, which is wonderful, and sounds like it means a lot to you. Bluntly, gifts may not mean as much to them. That may have exacerbated your perception of how socioeconomic differences affected your relationship (as others have pointed out, not all socioeconomically unbalanced relationships are strained!) and how a very transactional request (the utilities) affected you. To you, that seems like they rescinded a gift, while to them, it may not have been intended that way (it's still totally weird, but maybe they're just quirky or it's the "done" thing in her family for whatever reason).
If SIL "speaks" another language, she may not have understood the kindness you intended with the gifts nor the weirdness/uncomfortableness of asking for utilities. Instead, she may have tried to demonstrate care through a love language that is more significant to her, say, acts of service (say, cleaning for y'all) or quality time (such as taking time off work for the visit) and may have felt like she didn't get that care back - which may have made her think that you didn't like her or care about your relationship even though it was just a kind of miscommunication.
You say that she's condescending and rude - maybe the fact that you didn't seem to notice/care that you haven't spoken in four years and she didn't attend your wedding made her feel the same way? Whether or not it's fair, she may have been expecting you/your husband to ask after her and instead you blatantly demonstrated that her role in your life means nothing to you (I know weddings are crazy, but still, you noticed she was absent and yet didn't ask after her).
She may be a crazy horrible vindictive witch who you just need to cut out of your life but also she may be someone you're just not very compatible with who has poor conflict resolution skills to boot. What's wrong with giving her the benefit of the doubt and trying to salvage a friendly (if distant) relationship?
posted by R a c h e l at 1:53 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not trying to start a fight in the comments section, but all the answers that have some variation on "it's her problem"/"she's just crazy"/"don't even bother" really ignore the value of family harmony, I think.
Doing what you can to salvage a tough relationship is the kindest thing you can do for the family members you share, if you care about them, and avoiding her (or giving a passive aggressive response to a passive aggressive person) is only going to exacerbate the issue.
You didn't know there was an issue, now you do, so it's a golden opportunity to take it head on and make things as good as they're going to get. It's so much better to be happy than right.
posted by R a c h e l at 1:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Doing what you can to salvage a tough relationship is the kindest thing you can do for the family members you share, if you care about them, and avoiding her (or giving a passive aggressive response to a passive aggressive person) is only going to exacerbate the issue.
You didn't know there was an issue, now you do, so it's a golden opportunity to take it head on and make things as good as they're going to get. It's so much better to be happy than right.
posted by R a c h e l at 1:58 PM on March 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'd say the main hurdle is to get your husband on board with your plans.
What's his take? It sounds like he's shoving it all into your lap and saying "fix this"? Or is he willing to go with whatever you plan (like cutting off contact)?
If I were you, I'd talk with him, not about what SIL wants, but about what you and he want out of this. What would be your optimal resolution, if SIL turns out to be the nutcase she seems to be? And his? Can you find a compromise?
Right now, both of you seem in a tizzy about SIL's hurt feelings, OMG big dramaz. Never mind her. What about you guys, can you come up with a unified front, and stand behind it?
posted by Omnomnom at 2:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
What's his take? It sounds like he's shoving it all into your lap and saying "fix this"? Or is he willing to go with whatever you plan (like cutting off contact)?
If I were you, I'd talk with him, not about what SIL wants, but about what you and he want out of this. What would be your optimal resolution, if SIL turns out to be the nutcase she seems to be? And his? Can you find a compromise?
Right now, both of you seem in a tizzy about SIL's hurt feelings, OMG big dramaz. Never mind her. What about you guys, can you come up with a unified front, and stand behind it?
posted by Omnomnom at 2:02 PM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
What I should be feeling is deep remorse that I could have carelessly said something that would have hurt SIL's feelings so much that she's still upset after four years.
I can't think of a single reason why this is how you "should" feel or react to this. You've been putting all the emotional labor into this one-sided relationship. In addition to not feeling deep remorse, I would stop bringing baked goods and cakes.
There's this dynamic that can develop when one person is deeply unpleasant and not afraid to let it show and the other person (or persons) is too polite to respond in kind. The unpleasant person is allowed to run roughshod over normal rules of etiquette and boundaries, while the polite people are too nice to respond in kind. Instead, the nice people walk on eggshells and bend over backwards to avoid offending a completely unreasonable and unpredictable person. The power in the relationship ends up resting entirely with your SIL while you and the rest of your family tiptoe around her. You do not have to participate in this dynamic. Ignore her. Act like you normally would. If she gets upset, that's her problem.
all the answers that have some variation on "it's her problem"/"she's just crazy"/"don't even bother" really ignore the value of family harmony, I think.
When family harmony is all one-sided, I personally question whether it has any real value. Plus, this is your husband's brother's family. While you're baking cakes and bringing gifts, what's he doing? Is he chipping on and doing his share of the emotional labor? Your entire question is about you and how you've bent over backwards. He has a role to play here too.
posted by Mavri at 3:43 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
I can't think of a single reason why this is how you "should" feel or react to this. You've been putting all the emotional labor into this one-sided relationship. In addition to not feeling deep remorse, I would stop bringing baked goods and cakes.
There's this dynamic that can develop when one person is deeply unpleasant and not afraid to let it show and the other person (or persons) is too polite to respond in kind. The unpleasant person is allowed to run roughshod over normal rules of etiquette and boundaries, while the polite people are too nice to respond in kind. Instead, the nice people walk on eggshells and bend over backwards to avoid offending a completely unreasonable and unpredictable person. The power in the relationship ends up resting entirely with your SIL while you and the rest of your family tiptoe around her. You do not have to participate in this dynamic. Ignore her. Act like you normally would. If she gets upset, that's her problem.
all the answers that have some variation on "it's her problem"/"she's just crazy"/"don't even bother" really ignore the value of family harmony, I think.
When family harmony is all one-sided, I personally question whether it has any real value. Plus, this is your husband's brother's family. While you're baking cakes and bringing gifts, what's he doing? Is he chipping on and doing his share of the emotional labor? Your entire question is about you and how you've bent over backwards. He has a role to play here too.
posted by Mavri at 3:43 PM on March 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
Let the brothers do the emotional labour. I think your husband did the right thing in circumventing the email route and taking responsibility for organizing to call instead. Emails amp up conflict, they get parsed to oblivion, they make in-person times awkward and strained. They get read again and again, with more 'evidence' of lack of fit being found each time. 'If X wants to communicate with me about something, I'd prefer she call me and chat.'
It's your partner's family of origin and he's rightly taking a stand for buffering you from their issues. Let him find out the cause of offense, let him pose some alternatives with his brother and then share with you what has been going on. It's the brothers' job to make attempts at harmony during family times. If they have their own squabbles about this with their wives, each couple is choosing what works for them.
Eg Brother: Candy is super upset that Karen turned her nose up at her mother last trip, and wants an apology before you guys can spend time with us
Husband: goodness, that nose turning incident is news to us. I'm sure Karen can be apologetic to Candy if it's necessary. I have to say though, that in a long relationship such as ours there's been a few times when we've felt offended - the disrespect Karen felt from your MiL's intrusion into our finances and the judgment we felt in that instance, for example. It's not a competition or an invitation to argue, but that situation has two sides. We manage our feelings on these things, do you think Candy could do that too? Can't it be water under the bridge? I don't want to lose valuable family time if our partners are arguing.
.....
Some people are super vigilant for 'mistakes' because their inner voice tells them they've got to have an externalised reason for their more complex feelings about others. Eg at one stage of your interactivity, they had prestige and power in terms of money and security. Now she doesn't. Money and class seems pretty important to your sister in law's family. You're well off now, living overseas, being happy. Maybe you're supposed to pay some dues. Be humbler, more super simperingly grateful, less offended by her mother who was only trying to help, etc etc Also eg, 'we paid for them for years, they should offer to pay for us now!' could be a feeling to come out of the guest house experience. Maybe you were supposed to offer, an easy 'test' to fail. (Ask yourself if they'd ask their friends to pay?) This is personal enactment of something that maybe has accrued over years. The 'tests' were opaque enough to easily fail. Maybe you treated their house like hotel (doubtful, given the hospitable sharing of gifts) according to her, and then were RUDE when dear mother was trying to HELP, according to her.
If the brothers don't iron it out in the context of your visit, if Candy can't have a conversation with you and wants to start an email chain instead, say no - your husband and brother in law should figure out a way to have a pleasant visit. I really don't think it's your job to detectivize and mystery solve, nor to send an email asking about offence. Every step of this, regardless of the alleged offence, is passive aggressive. When she's willing to own her responsibility to directly communicate her feelings instead of using FB, her husband, email she could simply say 'you did X, that was unacceptable to me and hurt me deeply' and you can respond accordingly. It's not a court case, it's a relationship.
posted by honey-barbara at 4:21 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's your partner's family of origin and he's rightly taking a stand for buffering you from their issues. Let him find out the cause of offense, let him pose some alternatives with his brother and then share with you what has been going on. It's the brothers' job to make attempts at harmony during family times. If they have their own squabbles about this with their wives, each couple is choosing what works for them.
Eg Brother: Candy is super upset that Karen turned her nose up at her mother last trip, and wants an apology before you guys can spend time with us
Husband: goodness, that nose turning incident is news to us. I'm sure Karen can be apologetic to Candy if it's necessary. I have to say though, that in a long relationship such as ours there's been a few times when we've felt offended - the disrespect Karen felt from your MiL's intrusion into our finances and the judgment we felt in that instance, for example. It's not a competition or an invitation to argue, but that situation has two sides. We manage our feelings on these things, do you think Candy could do that too? Can't it be water under the bridge? I don't want to lose valuable family time if our partners are arguing.
.....
Some people are super vigilant for 'mistakes' because their inner voice tells them they've got to have an externalised reason for their more complex feelings about others. Eg at one stage of your interactivity, they had prestige and power in terms of money and security. Now she doesn't. Money and class seems pretty important to your sister in law's family. You're well off now, living overseas, being happy. Maybe you're supposed to pay some dues. Be humbler, more super simperingly grateful, less offended by her mother who was only trying to help, etc etc Also eg, 'we paid for them for years, they should offer to pay for us now!' could be a feeling to come out of the guest house experience. Maybe you were supposed to offer, an easy 'test' to fail. (Ask yourself if they'd ask their friends to pay?) This is personal enactment of something that maybe has accrued over years. The 'tests' were opaque enough to easily fail. Maybe you treated their house like hotel (doubtful, given the hospitable sharing of gifts) according to her, and then were RUDE when dear mother was trying to HELP, according to her.
If the brothers don't iron it out in the context of your visit, if Candy can't have a conversation with you and wants to start an email chain instead, say no - your husband and brother in law should figure out a way to have a pleasant visit. I really don't think it's your job to detectivize and mystery solve, nor to send an email asking about offence. Every step of this, regardless of the alleged offence, is passive aggressive. When she's willing to own her responsibility to directly communicate her feelings instead of using FB, her husband, email she could simply say 'you did X, that was unacceptable to me and hurt me deeply' and you can respond accordingly. It's not a court case, it's a relationship.
posted by honey-barbara at 4:21 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Beg to differ with some replies; this issue *affects* your husband and his brother, and possibly you, down the line, but it's between SIL and specifically you. I don't know what the menfolk are supposed to be doing here. You did marry into the circus, even if your tent is a bit off the main, and I guess the monkey you're going to be getting an email from is yours.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm just here to nth the general consensus of "this woman sounds really unreasonable and petty; take the high road and decline the invitation to make her drama your problem".
And I'd love to know what she's been stewing over for four years, if it's something you feel comfortable sharing.
Billing family guests for electricity and water? That's eleven-dimensional coconuts.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
And I'd love to know what she's been stewing over for four years, if it's something you feel comfortable sharing.
Billing family guests for electricity and water? That's eleven-dimensional coconuts.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:31 PM on March 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
So, not to defend them charging y'all for electricity & water but... in some coastal areas, or especially if you are on an island, utilities can be crazy expensive. BIL & SIL may have actually considered that they were being somewhat generous by not charging rent.
It's a charitable sentiment to make the BIL/SIL look a little more sane, but according to almost any model of family/friend etiquette, when you invite people to your house, you don't charge them money for stuff. You just don't. Ever. It's really, really weird behavior and misaligned with almost any framework of hospitality and family interaction in any culture that I've ever heard of.
Even if it's in an exotic location or power is provided by a generator or propane is brought in by mule or whatever. You're their guest. (As a guest, it's customary to bring a nice gift to say thanks to the hosts and OP did that.)
I thought a little bit more about the issue and I think the thread is converging on a very reasonable answer:
- if you were in the wrong (even a little bit), then apologize nicely to keep the peace.
- even if you weren't in the wrong, if the SIL explains what upset her, then swallow your pride and apologize nicely to keep the peace
- if they keep up this weird behavior and hostility, draw reasonable boundaries, limit your interactions with them, and be polite when you have to see them. You have no obligation to enable or participate in their craziness.
posted by theorique at 5:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's a charitable sentiment to make the BIL/SIL look a little more sane, but according to almost any model of family/friend etiquette, when you invite people to your house, you don't charge them money for stuff. You just don't. Ever. It's really, really weird behavior and misaligned with almost any framework of hospitality and family interaction in any culture that I've ever heard of.
Even if it's in an exotic location or power is provided by a generator or propane is brought in by mule or whatever. You're their guest. (As a guest, it's customary to bring a nice gift to say thanks to the hosts and OP did that.)
I thought a little bit more about the issue and I think the thread is converging on a very reasonable answer:
- if you were in the wrong (even a little bit), then apologize nicely to keep the peace.
- even if you weren't in the wrong, if the SIL explains what upset her, then swallow your pride and apologize nicely to keep the peace
- if they keep up this weird behavior and hostility, draw reasonable boundaries, limit your interactions with them, and be polite when you have to see them. You have no obligation to enable or participate in their craziness.
posted by theorique at 5:50 PM on March 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
BIL insisted that we pay them for the electricity and water used while we stayed
WTF? That's insane. I'm thinking BIL is also an asshole.
posted by w0mbat at 6:16 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
WTF? That's insane. I'm thinking BIL is also an asshole.
posted by w0mbat at 6:16 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
And please update when you do find out what she's on about. I know that I have definitely said things meant as a joke (with deadpan delivery) that were taken seriously before. Who knows, she might actually have something to be upset about (though I really kind of doubt it).
posted by sexyrobot at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2016
posted by sexyrobot at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2016
My assessment of the situation:
(a) SIL was already uncomfortable to be around and standoffish on a GOOD day. And is probably suffering from default in-law hatred syndrome.
(b) She is no longer having good days.
(c) Odds are she is probably crazy if she has been hating your guts and stewing about it and refusing to see you for years on end.
(d) Especially if there's no obvious thing a sane person can think of that would have ticked her off for years on end, like raping her dog.
(e) Happily, you live in different countries and don't have to see her very often. How long is this visit for?
So in short: odds are this isn't going to be a sane situation and won't go well.
I think what this boils down to is: what level of cold war do you want to have going on here, and what kind of cold war level does your husband want to have here? Does he need you to concede to her to keep the peace and so he can still talk to his brother? Is it likely that she'll force her husband to cut off his brother if you don't eat some yummy crow? (I suspect not if things have been at this cold war level where she's always absent and BIL shows up for the wedding, but it's a risk.) Will your eating crow get her off your back? Is your husband fine with things currently being as they are with SIL avoiding you? How do you want to manage this particular situation? How does he?
If she's likely to escalate the war, I'd probably do whatever I could to shut her up for family peace or at least making things not horrible for the duration that you're there. On the other hand, if she is likely to still act like this, then fuck it, continue the polite cold war and avoid her right back. Really, she's no big loss either way, except for how her being pissed at you may bleed over into causing drama with the rest of the family. I'd be more concerned about how it affects everyone else and if you and your husband are fine with those consequences.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2016
(a) SIL was already uncomfortable to be around and standoffish on a GOOD day. And is probably suffering from default in-law hatred syndrome.
(b) She is no longer having good days.
(c) Odds are she is probably crazy if she has been hating your guts and stewing about it and refusing to see you for years on end.
(d) Especially if there's no obvious thing a sane person can think of that would have ticked her off for years on end, like raping her dog.
(e) Happily, you live in different countries and don't have to see her very often. How long is this visit for?
So in short: odds are this isn't going to be a sane situation and won't go well.
I think what this boils down to is: what level of cold war do you want to have going on here, and what kind of cold war level does your husband want to have here? Does he need you to concede to her to keep the peace and so he can still talk to his brother? Is it likely that she'll force her husband to cut off his brother if you don't eat some yummy crow? (I suspect not if things have been at this cold war level where she's always absent and BIL shows up for the wedding, but it's a risk.) Will your eating crow get her off your back? Is your husband fine with things currently being as they are with SIL avoiding you? How do you want to manage this particular situation? How does he?
If she's likely to escalate the war, I'd probably do whatever I could to shut her up for family peace or at least making things not horrible for the duration that you're there. On the other hand, if she is likely to still act like this, then fuck it, continue the polite cold war and avoid her right back. Really, she's no big loss either way, except for how her being pissed at you may bleed over into causing drama with the rest of the family. I'd be more concerned about how it affects everyone else and if you and your husband are fine with those consequences.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2016
BIL insisted that we pay them for the electricity and water used while we stayed
Curious how they metered that.
In any case, this is simple. She asked (indirectly) for your email address. Forget you heard all this second- and third-hand rumor about her being mad at you. Has SHE done anything to offend you so much you don't want her to have your email address? Might as well see what she uses it for.
posted by ctmf at 8:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Curious how they metered that.
In any case, this is simple. She asked (indirectly) for your email address. Forget you heard all this second- and third-hand rumor about her being mad at you. Has SHE done anything to offend you so much you don't want her to have your email address? Might as well see what she uses it for.
posted by ctmf at 8:33 PM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Three things:
1. Echoing what some others have said above, I'd first of all have a heart to heart talk with your husband, to find out what he hopes will come of this. If he really wants to repair things with his brother, to make that relationship as close and good as it can be, then I'd say that's a big priority for you- making peace with SIL as far as you reasonably can, because the two brothers' relationship is irreplaceable. I mean, your husband is far more important to you than any of these other people; he's the only reason you deal with them at all. So if you have to get through some yuck days with them, it's an unpleasant event, but not deeply meaningful (you then look at strategies for merely getting through yuck family events- ask MeFi is great for that), whereas if it makes it possible for him to salvage what he can with his brother, that is deeply meaningful.
2. I'd like to speculate for a minute on what could be behind BILs and SILs strange behavior. My first reaction was that they are snobby jerks, but the more I think about it, it could be something a little different. Of course, who knows. This is to make the point that all of our assumptions here could be way off. I offer one of a thousand possible scenarios. What if:
Back when you were grad students and they were highly paid banking and real estate people, there were huge financial strains going on that your husband and you knew nothing about. Maybe they were in actual financial trouble, facing bankruptcy, one of them was an addicted gambler, bipolar and not yet medicated, had just run them in to ruinous debt, and covering up, because BIL didn't want your husband and the rest of the family to know. SIL went along with this cover-up, reluctantly. They had been renting the beach house out by the week when they weren't using it, and BIL wanted to use if for a family get-together, over SILs objections that they needed the rental income. They reached a compromise that BIL would ask you guys to pitch in for the weekend. In fact, he fibbed to her that you had already agreed to do so. Then when he saw that you plainly didn't have any money, he reneged, triggering a huge fight between SIL and him that went on behind closed doors after you'd all gone to sleep. So he asked for the utility money as a second compromise, and has felt horrible about all this the whole time. Maybe SILs mother knew all this but was admonished not to let on. Thus the inquisition about your finances. Maybe in the middle of all this the whole family went to a nice lunch, and BIL picked up the tab, which seemed reasonable to you guys because as far as you knew, they had way more money than you did. But to her, it seemed as if you just expected this and didn't appreciate it. And so on.
Okay, this is silly, I know. But I'll bet it's money behind all the weirdness.
I'd take the tone that I was very seriously concerned that you'd said or done something offensive. I would give her the full benefit of the doubt here until you hear what she tells you. Even then, I'd remember there may be a lot you don't know. Because, if this goes in an ugly way, it's pretty much over between you two for the duration. And while BIL and your husband could still carry on a positive sibling relationship despite that, in practice it usually doesn't go that way. So I'd see it as the last good shot you can take at keeping things tolerable enough that he can have that connection with his brother. If it turns out that she comes out with something that is just petty and awful, you can easily step to a more distant position then.
3. Please do come back and update us. Best of luck with this. I hope it goes well.
posted by Puddle Jumper at 9:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
1. Echoing what some others have said above, I'd first of all have a heart to heart talk with your husband, to find out what he hopes will come of this. If he really wants to repair things with his brother, to make that relationship as close and good as it can be, then I'd say that's a big priority for you- making peace with SIL as far as you reasonably can, because the two brothers' relationship is irreplaceable. I mean, your husband is far more important to you than any of these other people; he's the only reason you deal with them at all. So if you have to get through some yuck days with them, it's an unpleasant event, but not deeply meaningful (you then look at strategies for merely getting through yuck family events- ask MeFi is great for that), whereas if it makes it possible for him to salvage what he can with his brother, that is deeply meaningful.
2. I'd like to speculate for a minute on what could be behind BILs and SILs strange behavior. My first reaction was that they are snobby jerks, but the more I think about it, it could be something a little different. Of course, who knows. This is to make the point that all of our assumptions here could be way off. I offer one of a thousand possible scenarios. What if:
Back when you were grad students and they were highly paid banking and real estate people, there were huge financial strains going on that your husband and you knew nothing about. Maybe they were in actual financial trouble, facing bankruptcy, one of them was an addicted gambler, bipolar and not yet medicated, had just run them in to ruinous debt, and covering up, because BIL didn't want your husband and the rest of the family to know. SIL went along with this cover-up, reluctantly. They had been renting the beach house out by the week when they weren't using it, and BIL wanted to use if for a family get-together, over SILs objections that they needed the rental income. They reached a compromise that BIL would ask you guys to pitch in for the weekend. In fact, he fibbed to her that you had already agreed to do so. Then when he saw that you plainly didn't have any money, he reneged, triggering a huge fight between SIL and him that went on behind closed doors after you'd all gone to sleep. So he asked for the utility money as a second compromise, and has felt horrible about all this the whole time. Maybe SILs mother knew all this but was admonished not to let on. Thus the inquisition about your finances. Maybe in the middle of all this the whole family went to a nice lunch, and BIL picked up the tab, which seemed reasonable to you guys because as far as you knew, they had way more money than you did. But to her, it seemed as if you just expected this and didn't appreciate it. And so on.
Okay, this is silly, I know. But I'll bet it's money behind all the weirdness.
I'd take the tone that I was very seriously concerned that you'd said or done something offensive. I would give her the full benefit of the doubt here until you hear what she tells you. Even then, I'd remember there may be a lot you don't know. Because, if this goes in an ugly way, it's pretty much over between you two for the duration. And while BIL and your husband could still carry on a positive sibling relationship despite that, in practice it usually doesn't go that way. So I'd see it as the last good shot you can take at keeping things tolerable enough that he can have that connection with his brother. If it turns out that she comes out with something that is just petty and awful, you can easily step to a more distant position then.
3. Please do come back and update us. Best of luck with this. I hope it goes well.
posted by Puddle Jumper at 9:09 PM on March 3, 2016 [12 favorites]
My SIL doesn't like me and there's a billion reasons to the back story. Short answer: competition for family resources. My in-laws have set up a zero-sum inheritance game between my husband and hers and when I came along, the pie was sliced thinner, etc.
At first, she was "nice" but then she complained about me constantly to my in-laws and so I pulled back and then she pulled back and now we're barely on speaking terms but I couldn't tell you exactly why. I'm sure if I went to her and asked, "Are you angry with me?" She'd probably gaslight me and tell me "no."
Is she from another culture? I'm an American and they're all Italian so I'm sure I've done all sorts of "rude" things the non-Italian way. Oy gevalt.
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 5:39 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
At first, she was "nice" but then she complained about me constantly to my in-laws and so I pulled back and then she pulled back and now we're barely on speaking terms but I couldn't tell you exactly why. I'm sure if I went to her and asked, "Are you angry with me?" She'd probably gaslight me and tell me "no."
Is she from another culture? I'm an American and they're all Italian so I'm sure I've done all sorts of "rude" things the non-Italian way. Oy gevalt.
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 5:39 AM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sometimes you can totally accidentally say something that is the last, offensive straw for someone, because it's pushing on their issues, without meaning to.
In my own life: someone cut me off because I was weighing my college options and had said something negative about the quality of education at community college. Unknownst to me, the person I was talking to was a community college grad, and took it as a Deliberate Insult. And it would have been - if I had known! But I didn't know. Same with someone who was giving me unwanted parenting advice - I snapped back, "She's not your kid, you don't even have kids, leave me alone." Well, unknownst to me at the time, she had just entered menopause and had wanted babies desperately all her life and was just confronting that she would never have them.
Sometimes the things you say can be insensitive to the knowledge someone else thinks that you have of them. This is especially true with the rise of Facebook - if she posted something sensitive, she probably thought you read it.
posted by corb at 10:39 AM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
In my own life: someone cut me off because I was weighing my college options and had said something negative about the quality of education at community college. Unknownst to me, the person I was talking to was a community college grad, and took it as a Deliberate Insult. And it would have been - if I had known! But I didn't know. Same with someone who was giving me unwanted parenting advice - I snapped back, "She's not your kid, you don't even have kids, leave me alone." Well, unknownst to me at the time, she had just entered menopause and had wanted babies desperately all her life and was just confronting that she would never have them.
Sometimes the things you say can be insensitive to the knowledge someone else thinks that you have of them. This is especially true with the rise of Facebook - if she posted something sensitive, she probably thought you read it.
posted by corb at 10:39 AM on March 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Just let her email you. Whatever "it" is, get it over with already. Consider it a kindness on your part to even read it. It's been 4 years, she clearly needs to get this off her chest.
Read it. Take a deep breath. Then reply after a day or two, after you've calmed down.
posted by Neekee at 4:52 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Read it. Take a deep breath. Then reply after a day or two, after you've calmed down.
posted by Neekee at 4:52 PM on March 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
all the answers that have some variation on "it's her problem"/"she's just crazy"/"don't even bother" really ignore the value of family harmony, I think
To clarify, I'm not suggesting default "ignore" because I think you should create more drama and ill will between family members. I'm suggesting it because there is literally nothing you can do until she fucking talks to you. I mean, you can ask her what's up, but it seems like everyone is allergic to that kind of straightforwardness. The kind of person who stews for years and treats you like shit is not someone you can usually deal with in a reasonable fashion. I'd say "ok husband, you go ahead and deal with this as you see fit, tell her she can email me if she wants" but what else can you do? I try to maintain family harmony but I don't beg people to talk to me if their head is that far up their ass. I've been there too many times, you just get abused/humiliated over and over again. Keep it at arm's length.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:42 PM on March 6, 2016
To clarify, I'm not suggesting default "ignore" because I think you should create more drama and ill will between family members. I'm suggesting it because there is literally nothing you can do until she fucking talks to you. I mean, you can ask her what's up, but it seems like everyone is allergic to that kind of straightforwardness. The kind of person who stews for years and treats you like shit is not someone you can usually deal with in a reasonable fashion. I'd say "ok husband, you go ahead and deal with this as you see fit, tell her she can email me if she wants" but what else can you do? I try to maintain family harmony but I don't beg people to talk to me if their head is that far up their ass. I've been there too many times, you just get abused/humiliated over and over again. Keep it at arm's length.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:42 PM on March 6, 2016
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posted by DarlingBri at 10:40 AM on March 3, 2016 [20 favorites]