Sister-in-law trying to compete for title of Best Daughter-in-Law
October 19, 2014 9:07 PM Subscribe
My husband's sister-in-law (my brother-in-law's wife) is constantly trying to be the favorite daughter-in-law. If you have experienced similar competition, what did you do to reduce the level of competition or how did you cope?
My husband's sister-in-law (I'll call her Nicole on here) is a wonderful person. She's very friendly and easy to get along with except for on one front. Nicole wants to be the favorite daughter-in-law.
I know it's not a competition, but she has been so competitive about it. She goes out of her way to try to prove to everyone that she is closer to my husband's family. Examples include:
1. The first Christmas we all got together as a family, Nicole and I both agreed to each bring 1 batch of cookies. She ended up bringing 12 different batches of cookies.
2. Upon a family visit to the in-laws, Nicole got up early one day and as I entered the kitchen that morning, I overheard her telling our mother-in-law how lazy I was for not getting up earlier.
3. A few years ago the entire family was trying to schedule a week of vacation. Nicole refused the only week that my husband and I could attend because there was a different extended family reunion that week that she was insistent about attending. Later in the summer, right when it became too late for me and my husband to schedule time off, Nicole suddenly changed her mind about how much she had wanted to attend the extended family event and as a result she and my brother-in-law were still able to take a vacation with my husband's parents on their own. (This is not the only family event she has first made sure I was not able to attend)
4. She has now decided to suddenly pick up my mother-in-law's crafting hobby with gusto.
I know written out, these things don't seem so bad. It's the insidiousness with which she acts that makes it all terribly frustrating. I'm not trying to compete with Nicole; I like her and I enjoy hanging out with her. At the same time, when she puts so much effort into trying to prove how much better a daughter-in-law she is, it creates this adversarial atmosphere.
What is the best way to reduce the level of competition?
or
What are some good techniques for just letting this type of thing roll off my back?
TLDR Sister-in-law is constantly trying to win more favor in our parent-in-law's eyes. I just want to get along.
My husband's sister-in-law (I'll call her Nicole on here) is a wonderful person. She's very friendly and easy to get along with except for on one front. Nicole wants to be the favorite daughter-in-law.
I know it's not a competition, but she has been so competitive about it. She goes out of her way to try to prove to everyone that she is closer to my husband's family. Examples include:
1. The first Christmas we all got together as a family, Nicole and I both agreed to each bring 1 batch of cookies. She ended up bringing 12 different batches of cookies.
2. Upon a family visit to the in-laws, Nicole got up early one day and as I entered the kitchen that morning, I overheard her telling our mother-in-law how lazy I was for not getting up earlier.
3. A few years ago the entire family was trying to schedule a week of vacation. Nicole refused the only week that my husband and I could attend because there was a different extended family reunion that week that she was insistent about attending. Later in the summer, right when it became too late for me and my husband to schedule time off, Nicole suddenly changed her mind about how much she had wanted to attend the extended family event and as a result she and my brother-in-law were still able to take a vacation with my husband's parents on their own. (This is not the only family event she has first made sure I was not able to attend)
4. She has now decided to suddenly pick up my mother-in-law's crafting hobby with gusto.
I know written out, these things don't seem so bad. It's the insidiousness with which she acts that makes it all terribly frustrating. I'm not trying to compete with Nicole; I like her and I enjoy hanging out with her. At the same time, when she puts so much effort into trying to prove how much better a daughter-in-law she is, it creates this adversarial atmosphere.
What is the best way to reduce the level of competition?
or
What are some good techniques for just letting this type of thing roll off my back?
TLDR Sister-in-law is constantly trying to win more favor in our parent-in-law's eyes. I just want to get along.
How do you know it's you she is worried about? She might just be super insecure in her own relationship with the mother-in-law, worrying that her MiL dislikes her, or doesn't like her enough or whatever. All of the stuff she is doing might be attempts to get closer to the MiL without it necessarily being about rivalry with you. Your points 2 and 3 do seem like they could be about you, but 2 could just be an unfortunate one-off, and 3 could be more about your SiL wanting to spend more one-on-one time with the parents-in-law, rather than her wanting to exclude you for your sake.
posted by lollusc at 9:26 PM on October 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 9:26 PM on October 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
What are some good techniques for just letting this type of thing roll off my back?
How much do you know about Nicole's own family? I would be willing to bet that someone who has this much to prove to her in-laws, to not just be liked but loved, and not just loved, but loved best, is actually playing some pretty deep-seated stuff she learned in childhood. It doesn't necessarily have to be some traumatic, abuse-level stuff, but maybe she just came from a very competitive family where love/acceptance became associated with winning or being the best.
This is to say, I find that feeling empathy for those who clearly want to compete with me (in a situation like this where competition is not necessary) helps a lot. If you can look at these situations and see someone crying out for love or affirmation, it's a lot easier to just shake it off. I mean, think of how lucky you are, that you are free to simply be who you are and feel comfortable with that, without having Nicole's compulsion to be the special one all the time.
posted by lunasol at 9:33 PM on October 19, 2014 [31 favorites]
How much do you know about Nicole's own family? I would be willing to bet that someone who has this much to prove to her in-laws, to not just be liked but loved, and not just loved, but loved best, is actually playing some pretty deep-seated stuff she learned in childhood. It doesn't necessarily have to be some traumatic, abuse-level stuff, but maybe she just came from a very competitive family where love/acceptance became associated with winning or being the best.
This is to say, I find that feeling empathy for those who clearly want to compete with me (in a situation like this where competition is not necessary) helps a lot. If you can look at these situations and see someone crying out for love or affirmation, it's a lot easier to just shake it off. I mean, think of how lucky you are, that you are free to simply be who you are and feel comfortable with that, without having Nicole's compulsion to be the special one all the time.
posted by lunasol at 9:33 PM on October 19, 2014 [31 favorites]
Just don't compete with her. After a while either she'll see she has nothing to prove (at least with respect to you) or your mother-in-law will see through some of it.
Though my own answer got me thinking....maybe this isn't about you, maybe she's trying to prove something to your MIL or herself or some other innadecuacy issues are going on. In any way, don't let it get to you. I'm not a MIL but my own MIL has two sons and that means two daughters-in-law and looking through her eyes I guess she knows we each have our own strengths and really the "best" DIL y whoever makes her sons happy, no?
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:34 PM on October 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Though my own answer got me thinking....maybe this isn't about you, maybe she's trying to prove something to your MIL or herself or some other innadecuacy issues are going on. In any way, don't let it get to you. I'm not a MIL but my own MIL has two sons and that means two daughters-in-law and looking through her eyes I guess she knows we each have our own strengths and really the "best" DIL y whoever makes her sons happy, no?
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:34 PM on October 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
you missed your chance on #2. you could have walked into the kitchen and said, all easygoing like "good morning nicole. you know, i don't appreciate people talkin' shit like that about me, so, what's your game here? is there a specific objective, or is this just something i'm gonna have to deal with on a general basis?"
#1 and #3 happened because she had too much information about you. don't tell her how many cookies you're bringing, and don't tell enough about your schedule so she can get the drop on you like that. no facebook, no coffee klatsches, no emails; what i call "extelecommunication".
#4, people have a constitutional right to craft. someone could take a picture of her work and post it on regretsy if they were sufficiently exercised.
posted by bruce at 9:34 PM on October 19, 2014 [28 favorites]
#1 and #3 happened because she had too much information about you. don't tell her how many cookies you're bringing, and don't tell enough about your schedule so she can get the drop on you like that. no facebook, no coffee klatsches, no emails; what i call "extelecommunication".
#4, people have a constitutional right to craft. someone could take a picture of her work and post it on regretsy if they were sufficiently exercised.
posted by bruce at 9:34 PM on October 19, 2014 [28 favorites]
This is me being a bad daughter-in-law I suppose, but I'd see it as getting let off the hook. Someone else is ready and enthusiastic about taking care of MIL's emotional and social needs. If that falls apart? I'll still be there.
(I'm a lazy individual plus I prefer doing different things than my in-laws do)
I think this is going to be a collection of very YMMV answers.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [51 favorites]
(I'm a lazy individual plus I prefer doing different things than my in-laws do)
I think this is going to be a collection of very YMMV answers.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [51 favorites]
Well, one option is to make it into a joke with your in-laws. That runs the risk of being mean and petty, but might be mitigated with genuine appreciation of SIL's efforts.
For example: "Look at that, MIL, Nicole has lapped me again in the daughter-in-law competition. Nicole, I don't know how you do it. 12 batches, and they all look so good! Do you need any help setting those out?"
posted by Good Brain at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
For example: "Look at that, MIL, Nicole has lapped me again in the daughter-in-law competition. Nicole, I don't know how you do it. 12 batches, and they all look so good! Do you need any help setting those out?"
posted by Good Brain at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
Poor Nicole. She sounds really insecure. You could just let her "win."
posted by juniperesque at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by juniperesque at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [20 favorites]
Sadly, regretsy is no more.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by small_ruminant at 9:35 PM on October 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
If the in-laws are at all savvy, they'll start to see how transparent her tactics are. Don't tangle with her on this. She'll likely double-down and get nasty. Try to let it roll off your back as best as you can and cultivate your own relationships with your mother and father in-law. Also, now you know her true nature. That's valuable information to have.
posted by quince at 9:36 PM on October 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by quince at 9:36 PM on October 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
She is probably extremely insecure. I brush these things off by reminding myself "Wow, I'm thankful I'm me and not so-and-so."
posted by ktkt at 9:36 PM on October 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by ktkt at 9:36 PM on October 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
It's only a competition if you choose to compete. Sounds exhausting being her, I'd let her win. So far as ways to deal with it, frankly, I feel a little sorry for her, she sounds really insecure. The fact that you're not going all out to impress them automatically makes you seem like the more together person. I'd keep doing your thing and just ignore her. You have a life, you don't need to kill yourself making twelve batches of cookies to impress a mother in law who likes you just fine already, right?
posted by Jubey at 9:37 PM on October 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 9:37 PM on October 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
Have you talked to her about her behavior? "I notice you're pretty competitive about keeping our mother and father in-law's attentions. What's up with that? Did I miss a memo or something, because they make it pretty clear that they love us both and I'm confused by your behavior, which really suggests otherwise."
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:41 PM on October 19, 2014
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:41 PM on October 19, 2014
I know written out, these things don't seem so bad.
They sound annoying as shit to me, and I doubt Nicole is really a "wonderful person". I don't mean that she's evil, but she's certainly not a thing of wonder.
You shouldn't participate in any aspect of this competition. You shouldn't let on that you notice it at all, let alone that it bothers you. If it were me in this situation, I'd try to reframe it in my head as, "Nicole has weird issues about our mother-in-law. Okay. I'm going to try to become a dispassionate observer. Oh, look, there she goes again. How frigging curious."
There is a certain type of person who loves being sucked up to by a Nicole. If your MIL is one of them, she might start buying what Nicole's selling. There's nothing you can do about that, though.
I also agree with bruce - you need to stop giving Nicole intel on you that she can use for her games. That's probably the only way you can counter her bullshit, without appearing to dignify it with a response.
posted by Coatlicue at 9:45 PM on October 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
They sound annoying as shit to me, and I doubt Nicole is really a "wonderful person". I don't mean that she's evil, but she's certainly not a thing of wonder.
You shouldn't participate in any aspect of this competition. You shouldn't let on that you notice it at all, let alone that it bothers you. If it were me in this situation, I'd try to reframe it in my head as, "Nicole has weird issues about our mother-in-law. Okay. I'm going to try to become a dispassionate observer. Oh, look, there she goes again. How frigging curious."
There is a certain type of person who loves being sucked up to by a Nicole. If your MIL is one of them, she might start buying what Nicole's selling. There's nothing you can do about that, though.
I also agree with bruce - you need to stop giving Nicole intel on you that she can use for her games. That's probably the only way you can counter her bullshit, without appearing to dignify it with a response.
posted by Coatlicue at 9:45 PM on October 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
It's only a competition if you feel the need to compete.
posted by modernnomad at 10:04 PM on October 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by modernnomad at 10:04 PM on October 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
" It's the insidiousness with which she acts that makes it all terribly frustrating."
I almost never ever talk about this here, because ultimately the fault is my father's, and I just don't care enough about my "Nicole" to give her the credit, but....
My stepmother did this to me until she pushed me right out of my family. It sounds ridiculous, yet I'm serious!
Where's your husband on all of this? Is he feeling the pressure, too? Is this effecting his relationship with his family adversely??
The most annoying thing is when others aren't catching on to when Nicole-types are engaging in shenanigans.
At that point, it is doubly ostracizing for you, and I pray you and your husband are united on this issue.
I have zero advice, and I'm guessing Bruce has given the best practical advice for the present.
My stepmother's goal was to reneg on an agreement she had with my dad when they married to not have children. I'm not sure why it helped her cause to oust me and my brother from the family group, but she was eventually successful on all fronts, so there ya go.
I think your Nicole probably has issues from childhood, for certain.
What is Nicole's endgame? What is her objective?
Answer that question and repost your question here. I bet you'll get very effective strategies and feedback if you can successfully identify Nicole's motivation.
Best of luck. This is a drag to deal with.
posted by jbenben at 10:12 PM on October 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I almost never ever talk about this here, because ultimately the fault is my father's, and I just don't care enough about my "Nicole" to give her the credit, but....
My stepmother did this to me until she pushed me right out of my family. It sounds ridiculous, yet I'm serious!
Where's your husband on all of this? Is he feeling the pressure, too? Is this effecting his relationship with his family adversely??
The most annoying thing is when others aren't catching on to when Nicole-types are engaging in shenanigans.
At that point, it is doubly ostracizing for you, and I pray you and your husband are united on this issue.
I have zero advice, and I'm guessing Bruce has given the best practical advice for the present.
My stepmother's goal was to reneg on an agreement she had with my dad when they married to not have children. I'm not sure why it helped her cause to oust me and my brother from the family group, but she was eventually successful on all fronts, so there ya go.
I think your Nicole probably has issues from childhood, for certain.
What is Nicole's endgame? What is her objective?
Answer that question and repost your question here. I bet you'll get very effective strategies and feedback if you can successfully identify Nicole's motivation.
Best of luck. This is a drag to deal with.
posted by jbenben at 10:12 PM on October 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you were my spouse, and it was my mother - I'd rather you just work on having the best possible relationship with my mom as you can. Sometimes that means you do things with my mother, sometimes that means you find nice ways of saying 'no'. Saying 'no' just gives me an opportunity to go to bat for my wife when necessary. Mother in laws need good boundaries sometimes.
You married your husband and inherited the family. Get the relationship with your husband right, be respectful to his family (and have him be respectful to yours) and everything will work out just fine.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:33 PM on October 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
You married your husband and inherited the family. Get the relationship with your husband right, be respectful to his family (and have him be respectful to yours) and everything will work out just fine.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:33 PM on October 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
My ex-sister in law did this, and we didn't realize until much later because the two daughter-in-laws she was competing with had no idea, and our mother in law is generally pretty laid back anyway. It was all her basket of issues and the same surface sweetness and weird machinations and gossip behind our backs. You have to make sure your husband recognizes the ridiculousness of this and speaks up for you if she puts you down in front of people. It is not a war you can win but you can defend yourself calmly until others realize she's being nutty or she overcomes her own issues.
posted by viggorlijah at 11:11 PM on October 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by viggorlijah at 11:11 PM on October 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
All of these things sound like things that could have happened in good faith, and not as a particular slight to you.
I think it would be better for everyone involved if you assume that this is the case.
Also, some people are just like this and are unlikely to change. Whether they're chronic one-uppers or just really enjoy baking cookies, rising early, etc. People like that are the worst, but eh, what are you going to do? In general anytime you get feelings of "what, you think you're better than me?" it's kind of useless bad energy. Let her do this if she's so determined to do so.
And, going forward, if she doesn't want to attend the family vacation when everyone else can go, that's on her, not you. Don't feel you have to bend over backwards for someone who is obviously not going to bend over backwards for you.
posted by Sara C. at 11:27 PM on October 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
I think it would be better for everyone involved if you assume that this is the case.
Also, some people are just like this and are unlikely to change. Whether they're chronic one-uppers or just really enjoy baking cookies, rising early, etc. People like that are the worst, but eh, what are you going to do? In general anytime you get feelings of "what, you think you're better than me?" it's kind of useless bad energy. Let her do this if she's so determined to do so.
And, going forward, if she doesn't want to attend the family vacation when everyone else can go, that's on her, not you. Don't feel you have to bend over backwards for someone who is obviously not going to bend over backwards for you.
posted by Sara C. at 11:27 PM on October 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
My husband's sister-in-law (I'll call her Nicole on here) is a wonderful person.
...
Upon a family visit to the in-laws, Nicole got up early one day and as I entered the kitchen that morning, I overheard her telling our mother-in-law how lazy I was for not getting up earlier.
That doesn't sound like the action of a wonderful person.
I think the best thing for you to do is not to bring this up with anyone (except your husband, just so he can have the heads up if he needs to defend you) and just let it go. Just be yourself and act as you normally would. I know that's easier said than done, but as others have said, this kind of behaviour is quite sad and pathetic and implies that she is not happy or healthy. Try to feel pity for her and act accordingly.
Really, if your in-laws are reasonable people, they will find your sister-in-law uncomfortable and off-putting. The kind of transparently insecure and desperate behaviour you're describing usually has the opposite of the intended effect--if your in-laws are intelligent and reasonable, she will become the daughter-in-law that your parents-in-law put up with...the opposite of "favourite."
If your in-laws find this kind of behaviour attractive or, god forbid, encourage this kind of petty competition, then you have different, bigger problems.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:37 PM on October 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
...
Upon a family visit to the in-laws, Nicole got up early one day and as I entered the kitchen that morning, I overheard her telling our mother-in-law how lazy I was for not getting up earlier.
That doesn't sound like the action of a wonderful person.
I think the best thing for you to do is not to bring this up with anyone (except your husband, just so he can have the heads up if he needs to defend you) and just let it go. Just be yourself and act as you normally would. I know that's easier said than done, but as others have said, this kind of behaviour is quite sad and pathetic and implies that she is not happy or healthy. Try to feel pity for her and act accordingly.
Really, if your in-laws are reasonable people, they will find your sister-in-law uncomfortable and off-putting. The kind of transparently insecure and desperate behaviour you're describing usually has the opposite of the intended effect--if your in-laws are intelligent and reasonable, she will become the daughter-in-law that your parents-in-law put up with...the opposite of "favourite."
If your in-laws find this kind of behaviour attractive or, god forbid, encourage this kind of petty competition, then you have different, bigger problems.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:37 PM on October 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
You asked how to let this roll off your back. If you enjoy your husband's family, then keep focusing on the fact you are together and having a good time, and ignore Nicole's hostility (and whether it's competitive or not, your examples are rife with hostility no matter how sweet she's being to your face). If you don't enjoy the family, then just keep reminding yourself that they made your husband, whom you love, the person he is, and try to appreciate them - this will keep you busy enough that Nicole won't be much of a factor.
posted by gingerest at 12:41 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by gingerest at 12:41 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
For example: "Look at that, MIL, Nicole has lapped me again in the daughter-in-law competition. Nicole, I don't know how you do it. 12 batches, and they all look so good! Do you need any help setting those out?"
Don't say this. All it does is make you look as insecure and passive-aggressive as Nicole but less good at turning that insecurity into cookies.
Honestly.....most of the time I'm a "see the other side, sit down with the person and talk openly about your feelings" kind of person, but this time I'm with everyone who says don't engage on this and try to ignore it. Unless this is an Everybody Loves Raymond family (i.e. where your husband is claustrophobically close to his parents, where you have to see the extended family all the time, and where everybody is constantly playing everybody against everybody else), it seems like an open-air confrontation is just going to make you look as bad as Nicole and create a potential controversy where controversy can't make anything any better. People like (your description of) Nicole often aren't even aware that their behavior is manipulative, and when they're confronted about it all they see is someone showing them a weakness they can use to their advantage in the future.
Talk to your husband about how you feel about this behavior and make sure he's supportive of you. If you're close to your in-laws and they're the kind of people you can talk to openly about issues like this, find a way (preferably an indirect way) to raise your concerns and reassure yourself that they like you. But really........as long as you're not financially dependent on them, and as long as your husband is supportive, then even in the really, really unlikely worst-case scenario that your in-laws are gullible enough to fall for this and start liking Nicole more than you, it doesn't seem like that costs you very much. If the extended family is together a lot I can see how that would be shitty, but basically, as most people say, your description of Nicole makes her sound like an unlikeably insecure person, and I can't imagine parents-in-law being charmed by that.
TLDR: Chin up, love yourself, love your family, talk to your husband, and don't let her bring you down to her level.
posted by urufu at 1:02 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Don't say this. All it does is make you look as insecure and passive-aggressive as Nicole but less good at turning that insecurity into cookies.
Honestly.....most of the time I'm a "see the other side, sit down with the person and talk openly about your feelings" kind of person, but this time I'm with everyone who says don't engage on this and try to ignore it. Unless this is an Everybody Loves Raymond family (i.e. where your husband is claustrophobically close to his parents, where you have to see the extended family all the time, and where everybody is constantly playing everybody against everybody else), it seems like an open-air confrontation is just going to make you look as bad as Nicole and create a potential controversy where controversy can't make anything any better. People like (your description of) Nicole often aren't even aware that their behavior is manipulative, and when they're confronted about it all they see is someone showing them a weakness they can use to their advantage in the future.
Talk to your husband about how you feel about this behavior and make sure he's supportive of you. If you're close to your in-laws and they're the kind of people you can talk to openly about issues like this, find a way (preferably an indirect way) to raise your concerns and reassure yourself that they like you. But really........as long as you're not financially dependent on them, and as long as your husband is supportive, then even in the really, really unlikely worst-case scenario that your in-laws are gullible enough to fall for this and start liking Nicole more than you, it doesn't seem like that costs you very much. If the extended family is together a lot I can see how that would be shitty, but basically, as most people say, your description of Nicole makes her sound like an unlikeably insecure person, and I can't imagine parents-in-law being charmed by that.
TLDR: Chin up, love yourself, love your family, talk to your husband, and don't let her bring you down to her level.
posted by urufu at 1:02 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's only a competition if you feel the need to compete.
I think this is the crux of it. I understand that it's difficult not to respond when you feel someone's trying to one-up you, but if you manage to be kind to her and refuse to take the bait, and be slightly self deprecating of your own efforts the next few times you see her, really only two things can happen:
a) She'll stop seeing you as being in direct competition with her (either because she feels supported/accepted which is ideal, or because she thinks she's won, which doesn't matter, let her have that, but let yourself feel smug in private, since you've deceived her).
b) She'll keep trying to up the ante, and when you don't respond in kind, she'll seem like an awful bore, and you'll seem pleasant, easygoing, and completely own the moral high-ground.
posted by Ned G at 2:44 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think this is the crux of it. I understand that it's difficult not to respond when you feel someone's trying to one-up you, but if you manage to be kind to her and refuse to take the bait, and be slightly self deprecating of your own efforts the next few times you see her, really only two things can happen:
a) She'll stop seeing you as being in direct competition with her (either because she feels supported/accepted which is ideal, or because she thinks she's won, which doesn't matter, let her have that, but let yourself feel smug in private, since you've deceived her).
b) She'll keep trying to up the ante, and when you don't respond in kind, she'll seem like an awful bore, and you'll seem pleasant, easygoing, and completely own the moral high-ground.
posted by Ned G at 2:44 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
My sister-in-law used to have a similar approach with my own parents. She was never rude about me, as in your second example, but she did try to exclude me from things and really, really sucked up to my parents in a way I found deeply irritating. It turned out her own mother was always criticising her about her weight and her appearance - no wonder she was so keen to be a part of my family. (We get on brilliantly now.)
If I were in the exact same situation as you, though, and this was about my in-laws, I would absolutely approach this the way small_ruminant suggests and just be relieved someone else was making the effort so I didn't have to...
posted by raspberry-ripple at 3:06 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
If I were in the exact same situation as you, though, and this was about my in-laws, I would absolutely approach this the way small_ruminant suggests and just be relieved someone else was making the effort so I didn't have to...
posted by raspberry-ripple at 3:06 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
My approach with this kind of thing generally - in a work or family setting - is to kill with kindness: call out the actions, and give insecure people the validation they are so desperately seeking.
I find that by doing this 1) it makes them like me, as I'm telling them what they really want to hear but often refuse to believe about themselves, 2) I defuse myself as a threat in their eyes, by validating the view that no one could be as X as them, and 3) Once they have that validation, they tend to feel more secure. People who are more secure act out less, are generally happier and kinder in my experience.
So, if the person transparently wants to be acknowledged as a thing, I tell them they are that thing. I view it as a win/win, honestly, as it allows me to make someone else feel happier better about their job/role in family, lets me get on with my shit without being bothered by theirs, takes away any suggestion of competition by positing us as on the same team (which generally speaking we should be), and you know, just makes for an easier life for all concerned.
It also helps me think more positive thoughts about the person as well, which is unequivocally better for me on a personal level, and in my relationship with that person. This is not to say I have to believe it all, but a wry, relaxed, detached attitude helps me.
Best of luck, I know how this can feel like a piece of sand in your eye, irritating you every time you blink. But you have the power to wash that sand away with a flood of empathy and a bit of humour.
posted by smoke at 3:42 AM on October 20, 2014 [13 favorites]
I find that by doing this 1) it makes them like me, as I'm telling them what they really want to hear but often refuse to believe about themselves, 2) I defuse myself as a threat in their eyes, by validating the view that no one could be as X as them, and 3) Once they have that validation, they tend to feel more secure. People who are more secure act out less, are generally happier and kinder in my experience.
So, if the person transparently wants to be acknowledged as a thing, I tell them they are that thing. I view it as a win/win, honestly, as it allows me to make someone else feel happier better about their job/role in family, lets me get on with my shit without being bothered by theirs, takes away any suggestion of competition by positing us as on the same team (which generally speaking we should be), and you know, just makes for an easier life for all concerned.
It also helps me think more positive thoughts about the person as well, which is unequivocally better for me on a personal level, and in my relationship with that person. This is not to say I have to believe it all, but a wry, relaxed, detached attitude helps me.
Best of luck, I know how this can feel like a piece of sand in your eye, irritating you every time you blink. But you have the power to wash that sand away with a flood of empathy and a bit of humour.
posted by smoke at 3:42 AM on October 20, 2014 [13 favorites]
I know this person. Not Nicole; someone who could be her clone. My person likes to do things like ask for a little financial assistance with a party for a common friend, then proceed to spending about 5x more than agreed (going WAY overboard for the event), take all the credit for everything--and then putting you on the hook for an increased share of the expenditure.
In my experience (which is not laden with the baggage of familial relationships; I have the luxury of an escape hatch inasmuch as I can just say "ok, not dealing with you anymore ever" if I feel like it) the only thing you can do is let it go. You can't control what she does, you can only control how you react to it. I hasten to add that I am only successful at truly letting it go sometimes so this isn't some serene fingerwag. These people suck, and all you can do is grit your teeth.
There is one ray of hope, though. These behaviours aren't confined to stuff only you see; everyone sees them, and everyone can draw their own conclusions. I'd guess that most people involved have seen what goes on and have also decided "screw it, let Nicole do her thing" because it's so much simpler to just let it happen.
That being said, there's no reason to just sit back. Stick to your boundaries. In the cookies example, there is (to my mind) nothing wrong with saying "I'm sorry I didn't bring more. Nicole, I thought we'd agreed on only bringing one batch each?" and letting her splutter. People will recognize the BS that will inevitably come out of her mouth at that point. This doesn't mean having a huge confrontation; it's more along the lines of "You know I know what you're doing here." I've been using this approach with my Nicole and it's had some limited success at curbing some of the more ridiculous manifestations. A calm statement of fact which you both know to be true will put her on notice that you know what she's up to--manipulative people pretty much always do--without an easy way to make you look bad for it. However, only you know her, and only you know whether it's going to lead to fireworks--if in doubt, take the tack of just ignoring it.
Or maybe a better way to put it: you can't be the only person who's noticed this behaviour. Let it continue, accept that you can't change it, and accept that everyone else is seeing what you're seeing.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 4:05 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
In my experience (which is not laden with the baggage of familial relationships; I have the luxury of an escape hatch inasmuch as I can just say "ok, not dealing with you anymore ever" if I feel like it) the only thing you can do is let it go. You can't control what she does, you can only control how you react to it. I hasten to add that I am only successful at truly letting it go sometimes so this isn't some serene fingerwag. These people suck, and all you can do is grit your teeth.
There is one ray of hope, though. These behaviours aren't confined to stuff only you see; everyone sees them, and everyone can draw their own conclusions. I'd guess that most people involved have seen what goes on and have also decided "screw it, let Nicole do her thing" because it's so much simpler to just let it happen.
That being said, there's no reason to just sit back. Stick to your boundaries. In the cookies example, there is (to my mind) nothing wrong with saying "I'm sorry I didn't bring more. Nicole, I thought we'd agreed on only bringing one batch each?" and letting her splutter. People will recognize the BS that will inevitably come out of her mouth at that point. This doesn't mean having a huge confrontation; it's more along the lines of "You know I know what you're doing here." I've been using this approach with my Nicole and it's had some limited success at curbing some of the more ridiculous manifestations. A calm statement of fact which you both know to be true will put her on notice that you know what she's up to--manipulative people pretty much always do--without an easy way to make you look bad for it. However, only you know her, and only you know whether it's going to lead to fireworks--if in doubt, take the tack of just ignoring it.
Or maybe a better way to put it: you can't be the only person who's noticed this behaviour. Let it continue, accept that you can't change it, and accept that everyone else is seeing what you're seeing.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 4:05 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I went to an extremely competitive all girls school and this kind of thing was just constant . Your best friends would be trying to outdo you at everything- stealing boyfriends, undermining your friendships, showing you up in class. It was the worst.
The only thing I found that worked was to get out of the competition- let her win.
For example 'oh wow, look at all those cookies, you're amazing! I barely found time for this batch!'
'It's so lovely that you and MIL have that hobby in common- it must be great to share something fun outside the family'.
Let her impress you.
Etc. And you have to try to do this as sincerely as possible.
I have found this technique to be extremely effective with competitive women. I think it's because it's disarming, and you show you are not a threat. Also, it sort of force yourself not to compete- and it can only be a competition with 2 of you.
It took a while to do master this (I mean, I went to that girls' school too, I'm pretty competitive). But showing your own vulnerability actually works really quickly to get these women onside. They start treating you like an ally rather than a threat. And because her behaviour will likely be very off-putting to most women in her life, she will probably become a fast friend- I agree totally with everyone else, this sort of thing is a massive sign of insecurity. Don't get drawn into it!
posted by Dwardles at 5:00 AM on October 20, 2014 [11 favorites]
The only thing I found that worked was to get out of the competition- let her win.
For example 'oh wow, look at all those cookies, you're amazing! I barely found time for this batch!'
'It's so lovely that you and MIL have that hobby in common- it must be great to share something fun outside the family'.
Let her impress you.
Etc. And you have to try to do this as sincerely as possible.
I have found this technique to be extremely effective with competitive women. I think it's because it's disarming, and you show you are not a threat. Also, it sort of force yourself not to compete- and it can only be a competition with 2 of you.
It took a while to do master this (I mean, I went to that girls' school too, I'm pretty competitive). But showing your own vulnerability actually works really quickly to get these women onside. They start treating you like an ally rather than a threat. And because her behaviour will likely be very off-putting to most women in her life, she will probably become a fast friend- I agree totally with everyone else, this sort of thing is a massive sign of insecurity. Don't get drawn into it!
posted by Dwardles at 5:00 AM on October 20, 2014 [11 favorites]
You need to figure out why this bothers you - and the answer might be that you need some form of reassurance from your mother in-law.
An ex-coworker of mine used to compete with me for attention from my ex-boss.
I realized my boss was contributing to the situation by giving praise sparingly. This would trigger both my ex-coworker and I. So I worked on improving the feedback I got from my boss. I became secure in my relationship with my boss and no longer felt in competition with ex-coworker. (ETA: with hindsight, it also became clear ex-coworker was competing with me because she was jealous of me. Some of that could be at play in your situation as well).
The question here then becomes: why does it bother you deep down? Is there anything you can do to improve your relationship with your MIL that will make you feel more secure (and make your SIL's action wash off your back?)
posted by Milau at 5:19 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
An ex-coworker of mine used to compete with me for attention from my ex-boss.
I realized my boss was contributing to the situation by giving praise sparingly. This would trigger both my ex-coworker and I. So I worked on improving the feedback I got from my boss. I became secure in my relationship with my boss and no longer felt in competition with ex-coworker. (ETA: with hindsight, it also became clear ex-coworker was competing with me because she was jealous of me. Some of that could be at play in your situation as well).
The question here then becomes: why does it bother you deep down? Is there anything you can do to improve your relationship with your MIL that will make you feel more secure (and make your SIL's action wash off your back?)
posted by Milau at 5:19 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I once had an in-law develop this dynamic with me/my mother. The difference was that the woman was my cousin's wife, and the person whose affection she was competing for is MY MOTHER, so I'm not sure why she thought she could out-compete me? It was pretty illogical. But she definitely did a lot of these things. (If I gave someone a jar of homemade jam for XMas, next year she would make three jars of jam. If I made a special dish for Thanksgiving, she would make THREE SPECIAL DISHES that were WAY MORE SPECIAL. That kind of thing).
Anyway, my mother caught on to the dynamic pretty early, and we pretty much just waited it out. I had to be careful not to compete with her -- that made it worse. (I made a lot of vegetable dishes for Thanksgiving. Nobody competes over vegetables. Well, not in my family anyway.)
It was frustrating at times, really frustrating, but I know the in-law in question had a very unsettled life growing up in many ways, so I tried to work on being compassionate towards her. (Not always easy, but easier than trying to complete with her!) I also focused on my relationship with my mother when she wasn't around, and backed off when she was. (I think this was easier for me, since I see my mom a lot more than she does. In your case, I think this means working with your husband to try to spend time with your MIL when SIL isn't around -- but without framing it as that and making it threatening to SIL.)
The good news is that the dynamic faded over time, and she's pretty much grown out of it by now. I'm not sure why, but I'm glad I waited it out.
posted by pie ninja at 5:27 AM on October 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
Anyway, my mother caught on to the dynamic pretty early, and we pretty much just waited it out. I had to be careful not to compete with her -- that made it worse. (I made a lot of vegetable dishes for Thanksgiving. Nobody competes over vegetables. Well, not in my family anyway.)
It was frustrating at times, really frustrating, but I know the in-law in question had a very unsettled life growing up in many ways, so I tried to work on being compassionate towards her. (Not always easy, but easier than trying to complete with her!) I also focused on my relationship with my mother when she wasn't around, and backed off when she was. (I think this was easier for me, since I see my mom a lot more than she does. In your case, I think this means working with your husband to try to spend time with your MIL when SIL isn't around -- but without framing it as that and making it threatening to SIL.)
The good news is that the dynamic faded over time, and she's pretty much grown out of it by now. I'm not sure why, but I'm glad I waited it out.
posted by pie ninja at 5:27 AM on October 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
She sounds like a very sad and needy person. I'd feel sorry for her. Let her win - what is she really winning? She gets to slave away making twelve million cookies and having to take up a crafting hobby and suck up to your mother-in-law. It sounds exhausting and terrible to be her.
posted by winna at 5:28 AM on October 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by winna at 5:28 AM on October 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
Take a deep breath. Who knows what drives Nicole? Something pretty terrible I'd say. You know what though, it's not a race, and ultimately there are no winners.
If you and your MIL get along and have no friction, if you enjoy being with the family in general, then you already won. Let her have the gravy.
Don't do anything other than what makes sense. So Nicole opened a branch of Mrs. Fields in her kitchen? Who cares? At that point in the holidays, it's already too many cookies.
As for vacation, give the times you're available, and then see what happens. If it doesn't work out, oh well. If it does, yay!
Be your happy, cheerful, confident self and let Nicole make herself crazy with planning, and cooking and finagling.
Love is one of those things. I know my MIL loves me not because of things I do, but because her son is happy and healthy. I love her because she's a lovely person who only wants the best for her family.
Now if I heard Nicole slagging me to MIL in the kitchen, I'd come in and say to her, "Gee Nicole, that's not very nice." Then I'd pour a cup of coffee and say, "So, what's on the agenda for today?"
Forgive, understand and love. Anything else is pointless.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:47 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you and your MIL get along and have no friction, if you enjoy being with the family in general, then you already won. Let her have the gravy.
Don't do anything other than what makes sense. So Nicole opened a branch of Mrs. Fields in her kitchen? Who cares? At that point in the holidays, it's already too many cookies.
As for vacation, give the times you're available, and then see what happens. If it doesn't work out, oh well. If it does, yay!
Be your happy, cheerful, confident self and let Nicole make herself crazy with planning, and cooking and finagling.
Love is one of those things. I know my MIL loves me not because of things I do, but because her son is happy and healthy. I love her because she's a lovely person who only wants the best for her family.
Now if I heard Nicole slagging me to MIL in the kitchen, I'd come in and say to her, "Gee Nicole, that's not very nice." Then I'd pour a cup of coffee and say, "So, what's on the agenda for today?"
Forgive, understand and love. Anything else is pointless.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:47 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Let her win. She is the one that they will depend on when they are really old and need someone to do their shopping and drive them to all their appointments. Let her have that. Do you really want to be the one changing adult diapers at 3:00 in the morning?
In the meantime, deal with it by not making lists and not keeping accounts of her behavior. Focus on other things. You are driving yourself crazy over something that probably has nothing to do with you. Oh, and, by the way, her behavior probably has nothing to do with you.
posted by myselfasme at 6:08 AM on October 20, 2014
In the meantime, deal with it by not making lists and not keeping accounts of her behavior. Focus on other things. You are driving yourself crazy over something that probably has nothing to do with you. Oh, and, by the way, her behavior probably has nothing to do with you.
posted by myselfasme at 6:08 AM on October 20, 2014
Just a thought in terms of the driving dynamics: did you get the good brother? Is she trying to raise their team stock by being on point at all times? Might not be entirely about you.
posted by Iteki at 7:34 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 7:34 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
The fact that grown women do this kind of thing, baffles me. I have never, and will never, go out of my way to be something fake to please other people - family included.
If this is how she genuinely is, then let her be. If it's fake, they will see it eventually. Does she have a bad relationship with her own parents? A lot of the times I have seen something like this, it's because they're making up for their short comings or misfortune in other areas of their lives.
Just be YOU - and all that matters is that your husband loves and respects you. He's the only one who matters in the long run.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 8:14 AM on October 20, 2014
If this is how she genuinely is, then let her be. If it's fake, they will see it eventually. Does she have a bad relationship with her own parents? A lot of the times I have seen something like this, it's because they're making up for their short comings or misfortune in other areas of their lives.
Just be YOU - and all that matters is that your husband loves and respects you. He's the only one who matters in the long run.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 8:14 AM on October 20, 2014
Nicole and I both agreed to each bring 1 batch of cookies. She ended up bringing 12 different batches of cookies.
Wait, what? There are now suddenly 12 times as many cookies as I'd planned for? This would annoy the hell out of me as a hostess, and yeah, it's likely that people are seeing through this behavior.
posted by Melismata at 8:29 AM on October 20, 2014
Wait, what? There are now suddenly 12 times as many cookies as I'd planned for? This would annoy the hell out of me as a hostess, and yeah, it's likely that people are seeing through this behavior.
posted by Melismata at 8:29 AM on October 20, 2014
I'm on team Let Her Win, with the exception of #2. Do not blow off shit-talking behind your back the next time you catch her doing it. You don't have to make a scene, but make it clear to her - and the person she feels safe saying that shit to, because that person is and has previously been a participant if they aren't stopping it - that you see who they really are.
If you need a mantra, borrow one from the South: Bless her heart. She can't help it, somebody obviously didn't love her right when she was little.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:15 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
If you need a mantra, borrow one from the South: Bless her heart. She can't help it, somebody obviously didn't love her right when she was little.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:15 AM on October 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Let her win then make a joke of it. The only way to win a game like this is to refuse to play.
For the cookie incident some comment like "Well we're now set for cookies if an army turns up/until spring" sort of thing. I'd avoid anything mean spirited just because then it just looks like jealousy, just turn it into a "oh that Nicole always overachieving bless her now pass me those snicker doodles they look great" kind of thing.
Good news is as they get older she'll be the one stuck driving them to appointments & rubbing their bunions. Remind yourself of that.
posted by wwax at 9:38 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
For the cookie incident some comment like "Well we're now set for cookies if an army turns up/until spring" sort of thing. I'd avoid anything mean spirited just because then it just looks like jealousy, just turn it into a "oh that Nicole always overachieving bless her now pass me those snicker doodles they look great" kind of thing.
Good news is as they get older she'll be the one stuck driving them to appointments & rubbing their bunions. Remind yourself of that.
posted by wwax at 9:38 AM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Just a thought in terms of the driving dynamics: did you get the good brother? Is she trying to raise their team stock by being on point at all times? Might not be entirely about you.
This was my question as well. Does she think she'll ensure a larger portion of the inheritance (assuming there is one)?
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:41 AM on October 20, 2014
This was my question as well. Does she think she'll ensure a larger portion of the inheritance (assuming there is one)?
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:41 AM on October 20, 2014
I don't think there even has to be money involved- it might just be some sort of pressure to keep her "team" on top.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:19 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by small_ruminant at 10:19 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's only a competition if you choose to compete.
A thousand times this. "Best daughter-in-law" is not a thing. Live your own life.
If I was your MIL, and you brought this up, my attitude would be "Thanks for thinking I'm too stupid to figure this out."
Live your own life.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
A thousand times this. "Best daughter-in-law" is not a thing. Live your own life.
If I was your MIL, and you brought this up, my attitude would be "Thanks for thinking I'm too stupid to figure this out."
Live your own life.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
The only thing I'd add to the above is that for situations like #3, make sure your parents-in-law are involved in the communications and that Nicole isn't the middleman for anything. If she's the one scheduling family events regularly, see if you or your husband can take the reins instead once in a while and try to keep as many people as possible in the loop. Other than that, I'd agree with everyone that Nicole is probably just making herself look either bad or at least a little bit odd, and I would try not to let the sense of competition affect your own relationship with your in-laws.
For what it's worth, if either of you couples has kids that will probably change the balance of all your relationships anyway (not in affection but probably in terms of attention). If Nicole has kids before or rather than you, then remember not to take it personally if she and her husband become more of the center of the family universe. That's something that would probably happen no matter what her personality.
posted by egg drop at 12:15 PM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, if either of you couples has kids that will probably change the balance of all your relationships anyway (not in affection but probably in terms of attention). If Nicole has kids before or rather than you, then remember not to take it personally if she and her husband become more of the center of the family universe. That's something that would probably happen no matter what her personality.
posted by egg drop at 12:15 PM on October 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
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Focusing on it will just bring you pain. Be happy that the pressure is off you to perform, be yourself, it's less tiring. And the relationships you do have with your in laws will be more satisfying and sincere. (And you will have won. But it's not about winning.)
posted by taff at 9:14 PM on October 19, 2014 [23 favorites]