Describe This Relationship
September 1, 2015 5:33 AM Subscribe
I have a friend who's all over the place. I can't figure her out or how to respond.
Imagine you have an opposite sex friend. She's a married female. She's bright and bubbly. The friendship is mostly one sided and you put in at least 95% of the effort.
She seems to care about you, but she doesn't follow anything up. If you tell he you have an exam in a couple of days, she won't ask about it when she next sees you. But if you do have a problem, she would be there for you to talk.
She rarely initiates, or reciprocates. But she does respond when you talk to her. She will get in touch with you once in a blue moon to see if you're OK. Conversation however is quite shallow - nothing substantial and usually never about her, always about you. She seems to be quite guarded in what she reveals of herself. It's like she's interested in peoples problems.
If you approach her, she will ignore you and pretend you don't exist. She doesn't ignore anyone else, but she treats you different. In general, she only makes an effort to speak to you if you happen to occupy the same space. She treats you different for some reason. She won't approach you, but she has no problem approaching other people. She almost makes herself unavailable to talk to by making beelines to speak to other people. She's only like this with you.
But when she does speak to you, it's like you're her best friend! She is almost over familiar, despite being casual conversation, is also quite intense. But you wonder why she's so over familiar when, when you see her the next day, she will ignore you.
What is she?
I don't think she's a friend due to her rudeness. I don't think she's an acquaintance because she does seem to care. Periodically,
She doesn't fit the bill of a frenemy, or narcissist. It's not text book one sided, or selfish, or self centered. It's not a "bad weather friend". It doesn't seem to fit the classic toxic friendship types.
My main problem, from my position, it feels as if we never progress beyond the first rung of the ladder in the friendship. But her overfamiliarisation when she's in the mood to talk to me, has left me feeling confused.
Imagine you have an opposite sex friend. She's a married female. She's bright and bubbly. The friendship is mostly one sided and you put in at least 95% of the effort.
She seems to care about you, but she doesn't follow anything up. If you tell he you have an exam in a couple of days, she won't ask about it when she next sees you. But if you do have a problem, she would be there for you to talk.
She rarely initiates, or reciprocates. But she does respond when you talk to her. She will get in touch with you once in a blue moon to see if you're OK. Conversation however is quite shallow - nothing substantial and usually never about her, always about you. She seems to be quite guarded in what she reveals of herself. It's like she's interested in peoples problems.
If you approach her, she will ignore you and pretend you don't exist. She doesn't ignore anyone else, but she treats you different. In general, she only makes an effort to speak to you if you happen to occupy the same space. She treats you different for some reason. She won't approach you, but she has no problem approaching other people. She almost makes herself unavailable to talk to by making beelines to speak to other people. She's only like this with you.
But when she does speak to you, it's like you're her best friend! She is almost over familiar, despite being casual conversation, is also quite intense. But you wonder why she's so over familiar when, when you see her the next day, she will ignore you.
What is she?
I don't think she's a friend due to her rudeness. I don't think she's an acquaintance because she does seem to care. Periodically,
She doesn't fit the bill of a frenemy, or narcissist. It's not text book one sided, or selfish, or self centered. It's not a "bad weather friend". It doesn't seem to fit the classic toxic friendship types.
My main problem, from my position, it feels as if we never progress beyond the first rung of the ladder in the friendship. But her overfamiliarisation when she's in the mood to talk to me, has left me feeling confused.
This sounds to me like someone who is busy, knows lots of people, and is maybe more introverted than she appears.
posted by thetortoise at 6:02 AM on September 1, 2015 [31 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 6:02 AM on September 1, 2015 [31 favorites]
She could be shy, with what J. Wilson said, a really personable interaction style.
I know my interactions with people vary wildly depending on how social I'm feeling at the moment and a lot of what you described could apply to me.
How long have you known her versus how long has she known these other friends? I know I do a lot better with older friends.
Why are you wondering? Cause I wouldn't consider this rude at all, if you wanted to be better friends, do you ever ask about her? You mention doing most of the work, but also that you mostly talk about you.
posted by KernalM at 6:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know my interactions with people vary wildly depending on how social I'm feeling at the moment and a lot of what you described could apply to me.
How long have you known her versus how long has she known these other friends? I know I do a lot better with older friends.
Why are you wondering? Cause I wouldn't consider this rude at all, if you wanted to be better friends, do you ever ask about her? You mention doing most of the work, but also that you mostly talk about you.
posted by KernalM at 6:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
You are acquaintances. Some people, she just had a different communication style than you do you are reading it as more than that. It is most likely simply cultural distances with a little wishful thinking on your part. Nothing wrong with that, but yeah based on what you have said you are not friends and definitely not more than acquaintances.
posted by wwax at 6:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by wwax at 6:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
She doesn't like you, but is well behaved enough to try to be friendly when she sees you. She's certainly not interested in being friends with you . Take the hint and move on.
posted by Kwadeng at 6:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Kwadeng at 6:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Oh, I do that to people all the time. Sorry, everyone. I'm socially awkward and shy. I don't talk to people unless they talk to me first and I never speak to men unless their wives or present. I also don't ask personal questions because I don't want to be perceived as noisy or rude and, when I'm really anxious, I can't remember anything at all to ask.
By the sound of things, she may occasionally be struggling with a slight crush on you. Maybe try and walk away from this one.
posted by myselfasme at 6:14 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
By the sound of things, she may occasionally be struggling with a slight crush on you. Maybe try and walk away from this one.
posted by myselfasme at 6:14 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Seems like you work with this person?
If that's the case, co-worker. Sounds like she's a really friendly and sociable person who is trying to send you signals to back away. You consider this more a true friendship and are super missing those signals. See them and back away.
posted by French Fry at 6:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
If that's the case, co-worker. Sounds like she's a really friendly and sociable person who is trying to send you signals to back away. You consider this more a true friendship and are super missing those signals. See them and back away.
posted by French Fry at 6:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't think there's any reason to read crush or marriage threat into this. Married women are "allowed" to have friends, after all.
My experience is that she may actually dislike you, but she was raised too polite and friendly and giving to even hint at it. My spouse is kind of like that -- he'll spend quality time in focused seemingly-interested conversation with someone,but say to me later, "I can't STAND him/her!". It's like he's over-nice in a defensive way, with a bit of Minnesota mixed in there.
I say to spouse: well, you have a weird way of showing it. Even I can't tell, how is anyone supposed to know? I tell him he should be more honest, that even people he dislikes still deserve his honesty, not fake over-interest.
So my read would be that she doesn't like you, but can't follow through on it one-to-one, which ends up feeling like periodic friendship as you've described.
posted by Dashy at 6:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
My experience is that she may actually dislike you, but she was raised too polite and friendly and giving to even hint at it. My spouse is kind of like that -- he'll spend quality time in focused seemingly-interested conversation with someone,but say to me later, "I can't STAND him/her!". It's like he's over-nice in a defensive way, with a bit of Minnesota mixed in there.
I say to spouse: well, you have a weird way of showing it. Even I can't tell, how is anyone supposed to know? I tell him he should be more honest, that even people he dislikes still deserve his honesty, not fake over-interest.
So my read would be that she doesn't like you, but can't follow through on it one-to-one, which ends up feeling like periodic friendship as you've described.
posted by Dashy at 6:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
She is a friendly person who is your acquaintance. She is not interested in being your friend, although she doesn't mind chatting with you sometimes. She probably senses that you're a bit overly invested in your non-relationship with her, which is why she also avoids you sometimes.
posted by colfax at 6:24 AM on September 1, 2015 [40 favorites]
posted by colfax at 6:24 AM on September 1, 2015 [40 favorites]
Just wanted to add-- without more detail, it's hard to say what's going on with her avoiding you. It could be that she doesn't want to be closer friends. But if this is happening at work or school, it could also be that she's just got other things to do and is trying to avoid getting into a lengthy conversation. Either way, dialing back your expectations a bit would be healthy.
posted by thetortoise at 6:40 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by thetortoise at 6:40 AM on September 1, 2015
She won't approach you, but she has no problem approaching other people. She almost makes herself unavailable to talk to by making beelines to speak to other people. She's only like this with you.
I agree with those who say that she sounds like a friendly person who might not actually like you. Perhaps she's uncomfortable with being standoffish or confrontational, or doesn't know how to switch from warm to cool. So she avoids you, but is friendly when she can't avoid you.
As an aside, her gender and relationship status should not be relevant in a friendship of this level, especially if she's a work/school acquaintance. If an acquaintance, friend, or coworker of mine considered my status as a Married Female to have any sort of effect on how we interacted, I'd be disappointed and weirded out. Possibly she senses this and it's part of why she's uninterested in your friendship.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:56 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
I agree with those who say that she sounds like a friendly person who might not actually like you. Perhaps she's uncomfortable with being standoffish or confrontational, or doesn't know how to switch from warm to cool. So she avoids you, but is friendly when she can't avoid you.
As an aside, her gender and relationship status should not be relevant in a friendship of this level, especially if she's a work/school acquaintance. If an acquaintance, friend, or coworker of mine considered my status as a Married Female to have any sort of effect on how we interacted, I'd be disappointed and weirded out. Possibly she senses this and it's part of why she's uninterested in your friendship.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:56 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would also read this as "shy but personable and charming woman who isn't that interested in being friends with you" except for the once in a blue moon contacts to see how things are. If she was really totally disinterested in you, why would she initiate contact entirely unprompted? Are you sure they aren't replies to some of the failed attempts at interactions you've mentioned? Like maybe she feels like she has to say something after all because your paths seem to cross all the time and she doesn't want to upset you? Because if they really are completely out of the blue contacts, then I think you can rule out her actually disliking you, but other than that, I'm at a loss.
posted by dis_integration at 7:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you approach her, she will ignore you and pretend you don't exist.
Is this behavior acceptable to you? Why?
Although this is not a romantic relationship, a bit of the "he's not that into you" philosophy might help you here. That is to say, time you spend trying to figure out why she's acting this way is pretty much wasted, or at least it's not going to change things. Understanding her behavior may help you to put up with it, but that's all. This is pretty much the way it's going to be.
posted by BibiRose at 7:28 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is this behavior acceptable to you? Why?
Although this is not a romantic relationship, a bit of the "he's not that into you" philosophy might help you here. That is to say, time you spend trying to figure out why she's acting this way is pretty much wasted, or at least it's not going to change things. Understanding her behavior may help you to put up with it, but that's all. This is pretty much the way it's going to be.
posted by BibiRose at 7:28 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Married bubbly female?
She's trying to avoid sending you signs of sexual attraction that could be misinterpreted and implode her marriage.
Or she's a huge manipulative biatch, heck I dunno. But the "avoid sexual tension" thing seems pretty plausible. I mean, you also seem to be pretty invested in her and analyzing all this stuff to a degree that's a bit unusual. Shrug.
posted by quincunx at 8:06 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
She's trying to avoid sending you signs of sexual attraction that could be misinterpreted and implode her marriage.
Or she's a huge manipulative biatch, heck I dunno. But the "avoid sexual tension" thing seems pretty plausible. I mean, you also seem to be pretty invested in her and analyzing all this stuff to a degree that's a bit unusual. Shrug.
posted by quincunx at 8:06 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Like most women, she is socialized to be nice to everyone. So she's intermittently nice to you but doesn't get much out of your interactions, and thus doesn't gravitate toward you and sometimes avoids you.
posted by easter queen at 8:26 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by easter queen at 8:26 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
I also think it's likely that she senses that you're a bit attached to her and is trying to avoid married awkwardness.
posted by easter queen at 8:27 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by easter queen at 8:27 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Another way to look at this might be in terms of what you are getting out of it and what is so fascinating about this person/situation. When people are on and off-- friendly and then withholding-- it creates what people call an intermittent reward or reinforcement effect. Sometimss your attempts to connect with this person do meet with (seeming) success which may be more encouraging than it should be. Some people create this effect in romantic relationships, deliberately or not, to get the upper hand. This may be going on here with you.
posted by BibiRose at 8:29 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by BibiRose at 8:29 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
She's not your friend, but sometimes reaches out to you or has conversation with you either of some very limited affection/interest or because feels somehow socially obligated to do so (my wife has a long list of people she feels she has to be really nice to and she doesn't actually like some of them.) I think the overly-familiar conversations are because that's the way she generally interacts with people. As you suggest, she may just enjoy talking about other people's problems.
That she avoids you and ignores you suggests you make her uncomfortable in some way. Are you acting like you have a crush on her or behaving awkwardly in some other way?
I would suggest becoming more distant with her. Obviously, be polite and friendly when you do run into her, but dial back your efforts to contact her considerably. Let her initiate most of the communication. If that means you basically stop talking to one another, remember this is someone who seems to make a point of ignoring and avoiding you in public.
posted by Area Man at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
That she avoids you and ignores you suggests you make her uncomfortable in some way. Are you acting like you have a crush on her or behaving awkwardly in some other way?
I would suggest becoming more distant with her. Obviously, be polite and friendly when you do run into her, but dial back your efforts to contact her considerably. Let her initiate most of the communication. If that means you basically stop talking to one another, remember this is someone who seems to make a point of ignoring and avoiding you in public.
posted by Area Man at 8:35 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Extrovert with social anxiety here, also a woman who struggles under the thumb of female-socialized mandatory kindness. When I was partnered, this is exactly how I would treat dude friends who didn't have a lot of other friends when I started to sense that they were getting overly invested in our interactions. I shied away from talking about myself because while I generally consider personal information exchanges to be a standard friendship maneuver, these dudes only ever translated it as an uptick in emotional intimacy, which they then used as an encroachment on the boundaries of my existing relationship. Some of them would paint any reticence on my part as hostility, because they felt that I owed them more. I am no longer acquainted with those dudes.
So I cared about them as people because I care about people a whole hell of a lot, and I listened to them when they needed to talk because it's very rare for me to flat-out turn away someone in trouble who needs a kind and welcoming ear. But more often than not, they would then assign the entire brunt of their friendship-having energy to me -- because I'm an extrovert, so I must be able to give perpetually, and also a woman who was socialized to refrain from saying no unless it's an absolute emergency -- and any expressions of caring on my part, however routine, often led to them getting the wrong idea and trying to get up on me. As soon as they started to express resentment toward me and other people in my life because they sensed I was "giving more" to someone else, which is pretty much exactly what you're doing here, that's when I would feel comfortable dropping them entirely. Because I'm a person, not an ATM of kindness; people don't get to put Nice Tokens in me and wait for their duly-deserved Friendship Treat to pop out.
You don't get to unilaterally dictate the terms of any interaction with another person, no matter how much you might want "more" from them. What you consider "the first rung of friendship" is where she's set her boundary, so that's where you need to stay. If that isn't acceptable to you, contemplate why you feel entitled to more of her time and energy than she feels comfortable providing.
posted by divined by radio at 8:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [42 favorites]
So I cared about them as people because I care about people a whole hell of a lot, and I listened to them when they needed to talk because it's very rare for me to flat-out turn away someone in trouble who needs a kind and welcoming ear. But more often than not, they would then assign the entire brunt of their friendship-having energy to me -- because I'm an extrovert, so I must be able to give perpetually, and also a woman who was socialized to refrain from saying no unless it's an absolute emergency -- and any expressions of caring on my part, however routine, often led to them getting the wrong idea and trying to get up on me. As soon as they started to express resentment toward me and other people in my life because they sensed I was "giving more" to someone else, which is pretty much exactly what you're doing here, that's when I would feel comfortable dropping them entirely. Because I'm a person, not an ATM of kindness; people don't get to put Nice Tokens in me and wait for their duly-deserved Friendship Treat to pop out.
You don't get to unilaterally dictate the terms of any interaction with another person, no matter how much you might want "more" from them. What you consider "the first rung of friendship" is where she's set her boundary, so that's where you need to stay. If that isn't acceptable to you, contemplate why you feel entitled to more of her time and energy than she feels comfortable providing.
posted by divined by radio at 8:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [42 favorites]
It also might be worth unpacking why you're referring to this particular person as a 'female,' rather than as a woman...
posted by twill at 8:58 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by twill at 8:58 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Do you both come from the same cultural background? I'm wondering if your interpretation of her interactions as being intense is some mismatch of default conversational styles, and what reads to her as, say, "younger sibling style" reads to you as "flirting style". It's reminding me of a friendly acquaintance who is a) from the US South, and b) interviews people as part of her profession. I would run into her on the bus and by the time I reached my stop she'd know how my grandmother died, but I wouldn't know what she's up to for the day.
>My main problem, from my position, it feels as if we never progress beyond the first rung of the ladder in the friendship.
She is making choices that keep you a casual acquaintance that she likes to talk to once in a while. It sounds like she is working really hard to prevent you from becoming either an enemy or a close friend. We can't tell you why she wants that, though I'd guess that she's picking up on some of the same oddness in your perspective that these answers are, and is alternating between noping out on some aspect of your interactions, sympathy, trusting and distrusting her instincts, with a side dose of women being socialized to a bunch of conflicting messages about how to treat men. You can't force a closer friendship than she's willing to give, but if she's hurting your feelings you can certainly decrease the intensity of interaction from your side.
posted by tchemgrrl at 9:03 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
>My main problem, from my position, it feels as if we never progress beyond the first rung of the ladder in the friendship.
She is making choices that keep you a casual acquaintance that she likes to talk to once in a while. It sounds like she is working really hard to prevent you from becoming either an enemy or a close friend. We can't tell you why she wants that, though I'd guess that she's picking up on some of the same oddness in your perspective that these answers are, and is alternating between noping out on some aspect of your interactions, sympathy, trusting and distrusting her instincts, with a side dose of women being socialized to a bunch of conflicting messages about how to treat men. You can't force a closer friendship than she's willing to give, but if she's hurting your feelings you can certainly decrease the intensity of interaction from your side.
posted by tchemgrrl at 9:03 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
She sounds like me, honestly, apart from the married bit (but I am probably as close to married as I'm likely to get, so the same boundaries probably apply).
And I would describe me as "a friendly sort of person who isn't super awesome good at friendships and maybe overcompensates on the former to make up for the latter."
I'm pretty introverted and shy fundamentally, and initiating contact/activities pushes me out of my comfort zone, so I won't do that unless you're really in my inner circle. But I mostly like people! So when I see you in person, it's like, YAY, I'm so glad I get to see you (without making a phone call or writing the dreaded email). I'll be excited to catch up, but I will totally dial it up a notch for this reason: I am afraid that you hate me, or think I hate you, because I never call. My bubbly demeanor says "oh my god, i promise i don't hate you, please don't hate me."
I'm also both busy and naturally a bit forgetful. If you told me you had an exam in a few days I would be very interested in a) what it's about and b) how you're feeling about it. Three days later, however, I am finishing two deadlines and sitting in on conference calls, running an errand for my partner and wrangling the cat to the vet's office and I'm sorry, your exam that we talked about last week is NOT on the radar. (Again, unless you're in my inner circle, which is like 5 people big so if I didn't meet you 20 years ago, you probably ain't in it)
So, that would be my description of your friend: a pretty nice, busy, possibly absentminded and shy person who considers you a first-rung friend.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:09 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
And I would describe me as "a friendly sort of person who isn't super awesome good at friendships and maybe overcompensates on the former to make up for the latter."
I'm pretty introverted and shy fundamentally, and initiating contact/activities pushes me out of my comfort zone, so I won't do that unless you're really in my inner circle. But I mostly like people! So when I see you in person, it's like, YAY, I'm so glad I get to see you (without making a phone call or writing the dreaded email). I'll be excited to catch up, but I will totally dial it up a notch for this reason: I am afraid that you hate me, or think I hate you, because I never call. My bubbly demeanor says "oh my god, i promise i don't hate you, please don't hate me."
I'm also both busy and naturally a bit forgetful. If you told me you had an exam in a few days I would be very interested in a) what it's about and b) how you're feeling about it. Three days later, however, I am finishing two deadlines and sitting in on conference calls, running an errand for my partner and wrangling the cat to the vet's office and I'm sorry, your exam that we talked about last week is NOT on the radar. (Again, unless you're in my inner circle, which is like 5 people big so if I didn't meet you 20 years ago, you probably ain't in it)
So, that would be my description of your friend: a pretty nice, busy, possibly absentminded and shy person who considers you a first-rung friend.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:09 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh yeah, as for the ignoring-when-approached. I would be curious to know what kinds of situations it takes place in.
1) I feel like there are a number of things I probably do by accident, out of shyness or poor situational awareness--and other factors, such as my being slightly hard of hearing or being naturally defensive when walking in public-- that would come across as a cut-direct like that.
2) However there are also people I avoid when possible though I am friendly to them when I cannot avoid them. This group almost exclusively consists of older men with terrible boundaries around women. So, you know. Think about whether that might describe you in this situation.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
1) I feel like there are a number of things I probably do by accident, out of shyness or poor situational awareness--and other factors, such as my being slightly hard of hearing or being naturally defensive when walking in public-- that would come across as a cut-direct like that.
2) However there are also people I avoid when possible though I am friendly to them when I cannot avoid them. This group almost exclusively consists of older men with terrible boundaries around women. So, you know. Think about whether that might describe you in this situation.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
She's either too nice or too afraid (of disruption of your shared work or social environment) to tell you she doesn't like you, or likes you fine but believes a married woman should keep single men at arms' length. Either way, not a friend of you, and you're probably burdening her more than you should.
posted by MattD at 9:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 9:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
If someone interacted with me the way you interact with her based on what you've said--you initiate 95% of the time, you mostly discuss your problems--I would consider that person intense and overly familiar. It doesn't make sense to me that you ascribe those adjectives to her.
Seems like she is just reacting to what you are giving her to work with. I fail to see where she is intense, or, more curiously, rude.
My reading is you want more from her than she is willing to give and that frustrates you. That's not rude, though; she doesn't have to engage with you the way you would prefer. I suggest backing off since it doesn't seem to be working for either of you.
posted by kapers at 9:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
Seems like she is just reacting to what you are giving her to work with. I fail to see where she is intense, or, more curiously, rude.
My reading is you want more from her than she is willing to give and that frustrates you. That's not rude, though; she doesn't have to engage with you the way you would prefer. I suggest backing off since it doesn't seem to be working for either of you.
posted by kapers at 9:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
"Not Into You".
posted by Gray Skies at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Gray Skies at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nthing the "not interested in you". If it weren't for a few small details, she could be me. I'm sure you are a very friendly and interesting person, but sometimes people just don't click. So she's probably faking it with you when you are together and avoids you when possible. And guess what? Women are pretty good at faking it because we were socialized to for forever.
Sounds to me like she's trying to do a slow fade.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:39 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sounds to me like she's trying to do a slow fade.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:39 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds like a relationship under tension. Maybe the tension is she doesn't actually like you but feels compelled to be polite. Maybe the tension is your interest in her seems excessive and makes her uncomfortable. Maybe it is something else -- I recently blogged about how weirded out I can feel if a man has the same first name as my ex husband. And I don't kbow how to bring that up to try to explain my discomfort. I cannot figure out if it would clear the air or make things more weird. It seems like an overly heavy conversation to have with someone I barely know.
It doesn't matter what the reason is. You should probably try to give her more space.
posted by Michele in California at 11:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
It doesn't matter what the reason is. You should probably try to give her more space.
posted by Michele in California at 11:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I didn't say I initiate 95% of the time. I make the effort 95% of the time. Ok, that might be exaggerated. And of course, you could extrapolate that to suggest that Im always in her face. Though that's not true either, because contact is quite limited even so. However yes, if you want to try and push a friendship along, someones got to do something.
Im quite socially anxious and not very confident.. I've tried opening the lines of communication and talking to her, but it's exceptionally difficult getting anything from her because she doesn't really give anything away and she does manage to turn the conversation round to me.
Now to respond to everything else.
Thanks for the replies.
She doesn't come across as introvered, though that is a possibility. You're right, she is busy with lots of contacts. I don't consider gender or marital status to have an effect on a relationship, though I know some people are more cautious.
As for discussing me, unfortunately within a short time frame of starting a conversation, she's off elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem asking about her or her husband and often do, but she is very guarded. Im usually the last to know in the circle, her Facebook updates are infrequent and I can't get any traction on the friendship due to the lack of interaction. I've got few problems with others.
As dis_integration says, if she was truly just an acquaintance, why get in touch out of the blue? I haven't turned up at a group event and she takes it on herself to get in touch to make sure everything's OK. No provocation. Inevitably I think she is more of an acquaintance because she's friendly and caring. But then she goes and blanks me when I go to talk to her. That is rude.
I've known her for about five years. I started being interested in friendship because she had seemed like a really good person. I had signals of friendship and caring and we've got some things in common, so I wanted to explore the friendship.
I've invited her and her husband to a few things over the years (about 1 a year). You have to start somewhere to push the friendship along, but they haven't really been too interested despite being polite and friendly.
I once thought she had a crush on me (me?), because she was getting unusually close - not nibbling on my ear close, just unusually focussed on me, little compliments for example as I walked past her, nothing direct. But then she went cold turkey and started avoiding me.
I think she is an acquaintance, but she is all over the place. When I back off, she's in my face. When I think she's a friend, she ignores me. It's a strange push/pull thing and it doesn't feel right.
I don't like this focus, it's unhealthy. I think it's generated by the push/pull behaviour. Other friends who turned out to be acquaintances stay in their box and I have no problem with them, but this one keeps box hopping. It's difficult to know how to respond. I don't have any clear conception of what's happening here, it's a major headache.
I have no expectation of her, I don't think she owes me something, I have nothing invested in her. I don't know if she's uncomfortable, but I sure am. I fundamentally am a trusting, loyal, genuine person. Im happy sticking on the first rung. That's where I feel I am. But when we talk, what I mean by being overly familiar, is that it feels like she thinks we're on the 2nd or 3rd, she's over the top, larger than life, seems to talk in the way of friendship, rather than being a casual acquaintance. It wouldn't surprise me if she thought we were really close friends or something. She's not being consistent or consolidatory in her friendship because she's all over the place. If anything, Im the one who wants her to back off, tone down, stop pretending to be something she's not. Unless she really IS interested in friendship, then step up to the plate.
I've had enough of all this, so I've backed off myself and not making any effort. I'll stick with friendships that are going places.
I like people though and don't want to annoy anyone, or make an enemy. I'll do anything for anybody and have no barriers. I don't want to lose a friend who may just be busy because Im being a jerk, but I don't want to waste my energy by giving a damn about somewhere who doesn't give two hoots. I've just never really come across anyone like this before. I simply can't imagine ignoring a friend for weeks without apologising for being lazy when I do get back in touch. I can't imagine being so friendly to an acquaintance, I get in touch with them when they fail to turn up at a group event. I can't imagine deliberately snubbing someone.
posted by CakeFragments at 11:14 AM on September 1, 2015
Im quite socially anxious and not very confident.. I've tried opening the lines of communication and talking to her, but it's exceptionally difficult getting anything from her because she doesn't really give anything away and she does manage to turn the conversation round to me.
Now to respond to everything else.
Thanks for the replies.
She doesn't come across as introvered, though that is a possibility. You're right, she is busy with lots of contacts. I don't consider gender or marital status to have an effect on a relationship, though I know some people are more cautious.
As for discussing me, unfortunately within a short time frame of starting a conversation, she's off elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem asking about her or her husband and often do, but she is very guarded. Im usually the last to know in the circle, her Facebook updates are infrequent and I can't get any traction on the friendship due to the lack of interaction. I've got few problems with others.
As dis_integration says, if she was truly just an acquaintance, why get in touch out of the blue? I haven't turned up at a group event and she takes it on herself to get in touch to make sure everything's OK. No provocation. Inevitably I think she is more of an acquaintance because she's friendly and caring. But then she goes and blanks me when I go to talk to her. That is rude.
I've known her for about five years. I started being interested in friendship because she had seemed like a really good person. I had signals of friendship and caring and we've got some things in common, so I wanted to explore the friendship.
I've invited her and her husband to a few things over the years (about 1 a year). You have to start somewhere to push the friendship along, but they haven't really been too interested despite being polite and friendly.
I once thought she had a crush on me (me?), because she was getting unusually close - not nibbling on my ear close, just unusually focussed on me, little compliments for example as I walked past her, nothing direct. But then she went cold turkey and started avoiding me.
I think she is an acquaintance, but she is all over the place. When I back off, she's in my face. When I think she's a friend, she ignores me. It's a strange push/pull thing and it doesn't feel right.
I don't like this focus, it's unhealthy. I think it's generated by the push/pull behaviour. Other friends who turned out to be acquaintances stay in their box and I have no problem with them, but this one keeps box hopping. It's difficult to know how to respond. I don't have any clear conception of what's happening here, it's a major headache.
I have no expectation of her, I don't think she owes me something, I have nothing invested in her. I don't know if she's uncomfortable, but I sure am. I fundamentally am a trusting, loyal, genuine person. Im happy sticking on the first rung. That's where I feel I am. But when we talk, what I mean by being overly familiar, is that it feels like she thinks we're on the 2nd or 3rd, she's over the top, larger than life, seems to talk in the way of friendship, rather than being a casual acquaintance. It wouldn't surprise me if she thought we were really close friends or something. She's not being consistent or consolidatory in her friendship because she's all over the place. If anything, Im the one who wants her to back off, tone down, stop pretending to be something she's not. Unless she really IS interested in friendship, then step up to the plate.
I've had enough of all this, so I've backed off myself and not making any effort. I'll stick with friendships that are going places.
I like people though and don't want to annoy anyone, or make an enemy. I'll do anything for anybody and have no barriers. I don't want to lose a friend who may just be busy because Im being a jerk, but I don't want to waste my energy by giving a damn about somewhere who doesn't give two hoots. I've just never really come across anyone like this before. I simply can't imagine ignoring a friend for weeks without apologising for being lazy when I do get back in touch. I can't imagine being so friendly to an acquaintance, I get in touch with them when they fail to turn up at a group event. I can't imagine deliberately snubbing someone.
posted by CakeFragments at 11:14 AM on September 1, 2015
I agree with lots of people above. Putting it together:
1) she has a generally warm expressive style +
2) she's internalized a sociologically derived sense of responsibility for others' wellbeing +
3) she's uncomfortable around you, because of intensity you're expressing in fifty ways you can't perceive, so she avoids you +
4) she feels guilty for avoiding you, because of 2). Her apparent friendliness is overcompensation for this guilt.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
1) she has a generally warm expressive style +
2) she's internalized a sociologically derived sense of responsibility for others' wellbeing +
3) she's uncomfortable around you, because of intensity you're expressing in fifty ways you can't perceive, so she avoids you +
4) she feels guilty for avoiding you, because of 2). Her apparent friendliness is overcompensation for this guilt.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Is there a cultural piece? This sort of sounds like the experience that some people from other countries have when they move to the US, where the expectations of what constitutes "normal arms-length friendliness" are very different from other countries. (And probably this is true between regions of other countries and so on.) Could she be from the US and you're from a more reticent/direct culture?
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
She's very odd and not someone I would want to get to know better!
posted by intensitymultiply at 11:53 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by intensitymultiply at 11:53 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Geez, man. There are any number potential interpretations of this:
-She has a very friendly and warm socialization style, but really only considers you an acquaintance, and never anything more. She does not particularly like or dislike you, though she may consider you a tad awkward. What reads to you as "box-hopping" is simply how she acts with acquaintances. This is the most likely scenario, I think.
-Same as above, but she mildly dislikes you, but is too socialized to be "nice" to make her position clear.
-Same as above, but she feels bad for you because she senses your social anxiety and lack of confidence. So she tries to be kind towards you, mostly out of sympathy.
-She actually did have a crush on you at one point, and that makes her uncomfortable. But she's friendly and likes you as a person, so she runs hot and cold in her interactions with you.
-She'd like to be friends, in a way, but believes she should keep single men at arm's length.
All that said, here's the really important thing: Just forget about it. Forget trying to be friends with her, stop trying to interpret why she acts the way she does. You don't know, and you aren't going to know. Just be nice when you see her, let her do her thing, and forget about it.
posted by breakin' the law at 12:49 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
-She has a very friendly and warm socialization style, but really only considers you an acquaintance, and never anything more. She does not particularly like or dislike you, though she may consider you a tad awkward. What reads to you as "box-hopping" is simply how she acts with acquaintances. This is the most likely scenario, I think.
-Same as above, but she mildly dislikes you, but is too socialized to be "nice" to make her position clear.
-Same as above, but she feels bad for you because she senses your social anxiety and lack of confidence. So she tries to be kind towards you, mostly out of sympathy.
-She actually did have a crush on you at one point, and that makes her uncomfortable. But she's friendly and likes you as a person, so she runs hot and cold in her interactions with you.
-She'd like to be friends, in a way, but believes she should keep single men at arm's length.
All that said, here's the really important thing: Just forget about it. Forget trying to be friends with her, stop trying to interpret why she acts the way she does. You don't know, and you aren't going to know. Just be nice when you see her, let her do her thing, and forget about it.
posted by breakin' the law at 12:49 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you approach her, she will ignore you and pretend you don't exist. She doesn't ignore anyone else, but she treats you different. In general, she only makes an effort to speak to you if you happen to occupy the same space. She treats you different for some reason. She won't approach you, but she has no problem approaching other people. She almost makes herself unavailable to talk to by making beelines to speak to other people. She's only like this with you.
Sounds like you creep her out. Leave the poor woman alone.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2015
Sounds like you creep her out. Leave the poor woman alone.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:14 PM on September 1, 2015
Response by poster: Culture - we're both from the same location. She's a lot more forward than I am, as are quite a lot of people, but it's weird that Im actually a lot more initiating despite my shyness. I figured no one was going to come to me, so I have to go to them.
I never thought that it might be me being intense, and if I am, I would have said it's more in response to what she was doing.
Example, one week, she asked me to dance at a social. When I see her the following week, she ignores me after I say Hi. The week after, she says hello to someone who ignores her, she moans at them for ignoring her.
As for creeping her out, that's a bit unfair. I've been avoiding/not making the effort for a few months now, and she's come up me a few times large as life for a chat. I obviously don't creep her out that much!
I've had enough of playing games! I'll continue with my lack of effort. It's sad because she did seem like she might be a friend, and I certainly hope I haven't misread this.
posted by CakeFragments at 1:30 PM on September 1, 2015
I never thought that it might be me being intense, and if I am, I would have said it's more in response to what she was doing.
Example, one week, she asked me to dance at a social. When I see her the following week, she ignores me after I say Hi. The week after, she says hello to someone who ignores her, she moans at them for ignoring her.
As for creeping her out, that's a bit unfair. I've been avoiding/not making the effort for a few months now, and she's come up me a few times large as life for a chat. I obviously don't creep her out that much!
I've had enough of playing games! I'll continue with my lack of effort. It's sad because she did seem like she might be a friend, and I certainly hope I haven't misread this.
posted by CakeFragments at 1:30 PM on September 1, 2015
I've been this person before. It sort of goes like this: She perhaps is openly friendly/charismatic/enthusiastic to everyone upon first meeting them, which can be often misconstrued as being romantically interested or at least interested in a something far more intimate/close/requiring effort than what she may desire for whatever reason. She may actually REALLY LIKE YOU as a person as well but is socially awkward/guarded (as you said) and actually clams up the moment someone shows interest in getting to know her well.
She may have sensed, accurately or otherwise, that she sparked your interest/enthusiasm and interpreted it as "fuck, dude has an obvious crush on me" and is now uncertain how to handle the situation, re: your possible crush, without discussing the situation and making everything awkward, particularly seeing as she is married. She may have overthought the situation in terms of "shit I get along REALLY WELL WITH THIS PERSON but my husband may see this and perceive it as a threat and I don't really feel like having to deal with that headache." So she may just be conflicted as hell. Maybe she had a friendship like this before and her husband gave her hell for it.
She may also delight in the idea of keeping people on a string that she knows delight in her hen she needs a bit of validation, thus the random check ins.
That's just my theory, but who really knows. If it distresses you then tell her to fuck off.
posted by Young Kullervo at 2:06 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
She may have sensed, accurately or otherwise, that she sparked your interest/enthusiasm and interpreted it as "fuck, dude has an obvious crush on me" and is now uncertain how to handle the situation, re: your possible crush, without discussing the situation and making everything awkward, particularly seeing as she is married. She may have overthought the situation in terms of "shit I get along REALLY WELL WITH THIS PERSON but my husband may see this and perceive it as a threat and I don't really feel like having to deal with that headache." So she may just be conflicted as hell. Maybe she had a friendship like this before and her husband gave her hell for it.
She may also delight in the idea of keeping people on a string that she knows delight in her hen she needs a bit of validation, thus the random check ins.
That's just my theory, but who really knows. If it distresses you then tell her to fuck off.
posted by Young Kullervo at 2:06 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dude, not worth it. You could have written two symphonies in the amount of time you've spent agonizing over this and analyzing her to death.
Something it took me a really long time to learn is that some people in the world won't like you and this is NORMAL and okay and standard and true for everyone. You think lady Gaga is up all night crying because some people don't like her?
Just...go through life. You win some, you lose some. Either way, nothing's worth this angst.
posted by quincunx at 2:07 PM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Something it took me a really long time to learn is that some people in the world won't like you and this is NORMAL and okay and standard and true for everyone. You think lady Gaga is up all night crying because some people don't like her?
Just...go through life. You win some, you lose some. Either way, nothing's worth this angst.
posted by quincunx at 2:07 PM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The amount of effort you are putting into this is only appropriate if there is some compelling reason that you need to remain on civil terms with this person. That would include things like she works where you work and has a lot of power. If she works where you work and is NoBody, jebus, don't let her do this to you. It might also include "Well, really, I am harboring a secret crush." Which is like "Dude, start a journal and write emo poetry about your Feels or get therapy." If there is no compelling "I really cannot avoid this person without moving to another state and also cutting family ties to boot AND they have me by the short hairs financially for some reason" kind of deal going on, you really need to just do your best to have nothing at all to do with her. It is not worth the drama.
If this is just some casual acquaintance with no power over your life, why are you spinning in the wind about this? None of us can actually tell you what is going through her head and it sounds pretty clear that you are in no position to ask her what the heck is the deal. My father and ex husband were both career military, so I can be really axe-to-the-forehead blunt about things at times. I would have either confronted this person already or cut them out of my life. She ignores you? So. Walk away when you see her. That street runs both ways. She reacts weird? So. She started this shit. If she doesn't want to talk about, you can't really fix it from just one end.
posted by Michele in California at 2:15 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
If this is just some casual acquaintance with no power over your life, why are you spinning in the wind about this? None of us can actually tell you what is going through her head and it sounds pretty clear that you are in no position to ask her what the heck is the deal. My father and ex husband were both career military, so I can be really axe-to-the-forehead blunt about things at times. I would have either confronted this person already or cut them out of my life. She ignores you? So. Walk away when you see her. That street runs both ways. She reacts weird? So. She started this shit. If she doesn't want to talk about, you can't really fix it from just one end.
posted by Michele in California at 2:15 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks Michele. I like that answer. In fact I like all these answers. Believe it or not, I did that one day. I went to talk to her one day and she just blanked me. So I walked away. She came to find me afterwards. That kind of felt good.
It seems clear that it could be anything, but Im doing the right thing in trying to keep away. If she is a friend, hopefully she will pick up the hint and ask me what's going on. Otherwise I have all the information I need.
Thanks all.
posted by CakeFragments at 2:26 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It seems clear that it could be anything, but Im doing the right thing in trying to keep away. If she is a friend, hopefully she will pick up the hint and ask me what's going on. Otherwise I have all the information I need.
Thanks all.
posted by CakeFragments at 2:26 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
You need to stop obsessing over this woman, like, yesterday. Speculating about whether she's a narcissist? Sneaking fantasies about her nibbling on your ear into your Ask replies? All of this is incredibly inappropriate. You need to back off and deal with whatever crush or fixation you have on her. Everything you've described is normal acquaintance behavior, so don't even think about trying to blame her "push and pull" behavior for your fixation. Be polite, and leave her the hell alone.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:32 PM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:32 PM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
She sounds a bit histrionic to me. I can see how you are confused and uncomfortable. Maybe if you practiced saying "no thank you" when she corners you with these rung-jumping conversations, you might feel better due to a renewed sense of your own agency.
posted by macinchik at 11:18 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by macinchik at 11:18 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh good grief moonlight. Her nibbling on my ear isn't a fantasy. I said it to try to explain her level of closeness, that it wasn't as close as that (in case anybody got the wrong idea) but it was closer than normal. I don't have a crush on her. Up until then she was actually alright, but since then she's been all over the place. A couple of other people have seen it too but can't explain what's going on.
Normal acquaintance behaviour involves texting me when I don't turn up to a group social to ask if Im Ok (not from any other friends) and blanking me when I go to talk? Not in my book!! Neither of these are typical if you ask me. One is friendly, one is rude.
As for obsessing, look - Im just upset over the loss of someone I thought to be a friend. Her actions still don't make any sense, and Im sorry, but to me, after I've "backed off" over the past few months, it feels like she is the one who is focused on me and comes up to me to chat every chance she gets.
Surely you understand, when someone starts being friendly with you and reciprocal, you think maybe you have it wrong, maybe they're trying, maybe they've just had a bad time. I can start being a friend again. But then they start acting badly towards you, ignoring you, not taking you up on invitations, at least not acting like a friend. So you tone yourself down again, only to repeat the cycle.
Obviously all I can do here is be polite, be an acquaintance myself and just back away.
Thanks macinchik for understanding. It's incredible people think that I think that we're so much further ahead in the friendship. Frankly, I think we're at the first rung. I've said to others, we start building a friendship, then she does something which washes away the foundations, then she comes back a few months later like nothings wrong. There's no stability.
Of course Im confused!
I think you're right. I am very maleable and pleasing and would do anything for anybody. But I think I need to say "No" a little bit more, control my own agency.
Thanks
posted by CakeFragments at 11:53 PM on September 1, 2015
Normal acquaintance behaviour involves texting me when I don't turn up to a group social to ask if Im Ok (not from any other friends) and blanking me when I go to talk? Not in my book!! Neither of these are typical if you ask me. One is friendly, one is rude.
As for obsessing, look - Im just upset over the loss of someone I thought to be a friend. Her actions still don't make any sense, and Im sorry, but to me, after I've "backed off" over the past few months, it feels like she is the one who is focused on me and comes up to me to chat every chance she gets.
Surely you understand, when someone starts being friendly with you and reciprocal, you think maybe you have it wrong, maybe they're trying, maybe they've just had a bad time. I can start being a friend again. But then they start acting badly towards you, ignoring you, not taking you up on invitations, at least not acting like a friend. So you tone yourself down again, only to repeat the cycle.
Obviously all I can do here is be polite, be an acquaintance myself and just back away.
Thanks macinchik for understanding. It's incredible people think that I think that we're so much further ahead in the friendship. Frankly, I think we're at the first rung. I've said to others, we start building a friendship, then she does something which washes away the foundations, then she comes back a few months later like nothings wrong. There's no stability.
Of course Im confused!
I think you're right. I am very maleable and pleasing and would do anything for anybody. But I think I need to say "No" a little bit more, control my own agency.
Thanks
posted by CakeFragments at 11:53 PM on September 1, 2015
She doesn't like you but feels guilty and thinks maybe she's being too hard on you when she's not actually faced with you and is in a good mood. These are the times she reaches out.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:56 AM on September 2, 2015
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:56 AM on September 2, 2015
Or, she could be like me. I tend to be warm and friendly, and have had more complete strangers tell me their life history on the bus more often than I can count. I don't mind, I like being warm and friendly, and I like people. But my home life is a freaking shambles right now. My parents are falling apart physically, and I'm splitting my time between my house and theirs (in another state) to do what I can to make their lives easier. They're also rewriting their wills, which is causing my siblings to fight like rabid weasels (and that's being unkind to the weasels). One brother is back in rehab, and my sister and her husband are messily divorcing. My husband's mental illness is back, so I'm the only one working, which means that I have to play all of the emotional labor games at work to stay on everyone's good side, and can't tell people to go take a hike, that having a vagina doesn't mean I want to be the team's emotional keeper. Being the team's emotional keeper is keeping me employed, so off I go to do the thing. I'm also the only one taking care of the house. Our house needs a lot of work and I'm barely keeping ahead of things before they become much bigger things through neglect. He started a new med regimen and we're both hoping it actually works, but we won't know for another month or so. I can't afford to go back to my therapists and don't have the time for therapy, so I'm working my CBT foundations as much as I can. My mother in law knows none of this and is bugging me for grandkids again; I don't want kids and don't want kids in this situation for sure, but I can't say that I don't feel my clock ticking occasionally. It's ok. It can tick until it runs out, I'm not going to change my mind, but it does occasionally bug me when I'm awake (again) at 3AM.
I have a couple people that I've met in the last year that I would love to be friends with; I do the best I can, but the reality is I can't be a good friend to anyone right now. The only reason I have any friends is because my best friends, the ones I've known for years, know what's going on and are willing to wait until I come back, whenever that is. I'm sure I come off as flaky as your friend does though, to people who don't know what's going on. And you (and the people I've met this year) are not at the level where I'm going to say anything about any of this. So if you ask how I am, I'll say "Fine, busy" with a smile, but turn it back to you because I can't really add anything on to that without going way to far into detail for a low-level friendship. My husband can turn on the polite friendly facade for the couple times he's out in public, but there's no real way we can invite someone over for dinner - so if someone invites us, we have to turn it down because we can't reciprocate. I may appear like I'm ignoring people at an event because I'm barely able to socialize myself at this point, but also feel like I have to go out or I'm going to become a recluse, and that's not healthy for me either.
Basically, I'm bad friendship material right now and know it, but selfishly still want to maintain contact with people in the ways I'm able, so that hopefully when half of these messes resolve themselves I can actually be friends. That said, I don't blame the people who drop me because I'm flaky in behavior (if not in intent).
So, that can be another reason, but it all still comes down to the same thing: backing off is the healthiest thing for you, and it's fine. You got to do for you.
posted by RogueTech at 5:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a couple people that I've met in the last year that I would love to be friends with; I do the best I can, but the reality is I can't be a good friend to anyone right now. The only reason I have any friends is because my best friends, the ones I've known for years, know what's going on and are willing to wait until I come back, whenever that is. I'm sure I come off as flaky as your friend does though, to people who don't know what's going on. And you (and the people I've met this year) are not at the level where I'm going to say anything about any of this. So if you ask how I am, I'll say "Fine, busy" with a smile, but turn it back to you because I can't really add anything on to that without going way to far into detail for a low-level friendship. My husband can turn on the polite friendly facade for the couple times he's out in public, but there's no real way we can invite someone over for dinner - so if someone invites us, we have to turn it down because we can't reciprocate. I may appear like I'm ignoring people at an event because I'm barely able to socialize myself at this point, but also feel like I have to go out or I'm going to become a recluse, and that's not healthy for me either.
Basically, I'm bad friendship material right now and know it, but selfishly still want to maintain contact with people in the ways I'm able, so that hopefully when half of these messes resolve themselves I can actually be friends. That said, I don't blame the people who drop me because I'm flaky in behavior (if not in intent).
So, that can be another reason, but it all still comes down to the same thing: backing off is the healthiest thing for you, and it's fine. You got to do for you.
posted by RogueTech at 5:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
People can have different definitions of what moving up the rungs of friendship means. For example, I've had coworkers invite me to events (both small and large) and I would still not consider some of them friends. There's a group of us that used to do lunches together, and while the same people were there each time, I would not consider all of them friends either. However I might send texts to make sure they're okay regardless. Sometimes it's just a decent thing to do without needing to be a Big Deal.
I also work with someone who can be an interesting conversation partner, but only for limited amounts of time. His personality is such that I just can't deal with him longterm, and so I try to interact with him only when I feel like I can spend the mental energy. This is a little different because it's a work situation, but it's possible to have people like this in other areas of your life. Maybe you're fun in small doses, you know? Or maybe she thought you could be friends in the beginning, and then got to know you a little better and decided to back off instead because of possible personality clashes. I was working with a guy last year who I thought would become one of my closest and dearest, and today I can barely stand him because turns out he's incredibly immature and self-centered. Small doses are best again.
All in all it sounds like you should find someone else to befriend who is less confusing to you. People aren't worth all this trouble.
Bunch of bastards.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:33 PM on September 2, 2015
I also work with someone who can be an interesting conversation partner, but only for limited amounts of time. His personality is such that I just can't deal with him longterm, and so I try to interact with him only when I feel like I can spend the mental energy. This is a little different because it's a work situation, but it's possible to have people like this in other areas of your life. Maybe you're fun in small doses, you know? Or maybe she thought you could be friends in the beginning, and then got to know you a little better and decided to back off instead because of possible personality clashes. I was working with a guy last year who I thought would become one of my closest and dearest, and today I can barely stand him because turns out he's incredibly immature and self-centered. Small doses are best again.
All in all it sounds like you should find someone else to befriend who is less confusing to you. People aren't worth all this trouble.
Bunch of bastards.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:33 PM on September 2, 2015
Response by poster: Whatever is going on, can be explained in one or several more ways, from innocent to nasty.
For example, I came across this today "Intimacy-phobics can be experts at asking just the right questions to keep you talking about yourself. That way they don’t have to ever talk about themselves and can avoid uncomfortable subjects. They can give you such focused attention that you walk away feeling great and thinking it was a good conversation, not realizing that your friend didn’t share anything in return."
Does that sound like one of her traits? Absolutely.
It's not all black and white. It's not entirely obvious.
RogueTech, is that all really going on? I feel for you! And I can see echos here. Many times I've sat wished someone would just open up to me in some small way because I would do anything to help anybody. Even if its just an ear to listen to. I hate dishing out my life and adding to their pressures, tell me about yours before you explode! Release a bit of the burden. Ask. It actually feels good to be valued and trusted. If you need someone to pick something up, sort something out, need a ride, or a hug, Im here. But people don't seem to ask me. They're very insular. They like to go through things by themselves without bothering people. Im a very loyal and trusting friend. It matters little to me that you can truly reciprocate an eye for an eye, I wouldn't expect you to do anything for me as such - except perhaps start with a thank you and don't snub me and don't avoid me. Or at least if you're going to do that, at least give me the heads up so I know to give you some space, otherwise I think I've done something wrong, or that you're just being a nasty cow who hates me for some reason.
There's also the possibility that she did develop a crush on me, became aware of it, started avoiding me. She hasn't been the same since that point.
Whatever it is, whether it's her avoiding me, disliking me, liking me too much, thinks I like her too much, intimacy phobia, creeped out, busy, stressed, self absorbed, an acquaintance, or even a friend who just gets it wrong, it sounds like the answer is the same. I need to back off and let her get on with it.
posted by CakeFragments at 11:53 PM on September 2, 2015
For example, I came across this today "Intimacy-phobics can be experts at asking just the right questions to keep you talking about yourself. That way they don’t have to ever talk about themselves and can avoid uncomfortable subjects. They can give you such focused attention that you walk away feeling great and thinking it was a good conversation, not realizing that your friend didn’t share anything in return."
Does that sound like one of her traits? Absolutely.
It's not all black and white. It's not entirely obvious.
RogueTech, is that all really going on? I feel for you! And I can see echos here. Many times I've sat wished someone would just open up to me in some small way because I would do anything to help anybody. Even if its just an ear to listen to. I hate dishing out my life and adding to their pressures, tell me about yours before you explode! Release a bit of the burden. Ask. It actually feels good to be valued and trusted. If you need someone to pick something up, sort something out, need a ride, or a hug, Im here. But people don't seem to ask me. They're very insular. They like to go through things by themselves without bothering people. Im a very loyal and trusting friend. It matters little to me that you can truly reciprocate an eye for an eye, I wouldn't expect you to do anything for me as such - except perhaps start with a thank you and don't snub me and don't avoid me. Or at least if you're going to do that, at least give me the heads up so I know to give you some space, otherwise I think I've done something wrong, or that you're just being a nasty cow who hates me for some reason.
There's also the possibility that she did develop a crush on me, became aware of it, started avoiding me. She hasn't been the same since that point.
Whatever it is, whether it's her avoiding me, disliking me, liking me too much, thinks I like her too much, intimacy phobia, creeped out, busy, stressed, self absorbed, an acquaintance, or even a friend who just gets it wrong, it sounds like the answer is the same. I need to back off and let her get on with it.
posted by CakeFragments at 11:53 PM on September 2, 2015
CakeFragments, I mean this in the kindest way possible but I think the sort of analyzing and processing you're doing about this woman is coming off as rather creepy. I'm trying to put my finger on it, but I think it comes down to how much effort you're putting into figuring her out. And I understand some of the desire to, and the feeling of frustration like "Ugh why won't she/he want to become a friend of mine? I'm a nice person! And I make all these attempts!" I just think that she may be picking up on how much space in your brain she takes up, and for a lot of women this is a really uncomfortable dynamic. You could be a genuinely great guy and she may enjoy talking to you, until something happens and she gets reminded that there's something "off" about the whole thing.
Because in my case, reading your long updates in this thread about her possible thought process or you trying to figure out what it means when she does [action] but then doesn't do [action] and so on and so forth, comes across as too much. This is the level of energy people put into interpreting possible crushes and romantic interests, it's way too involved for a friendship.
Maybe recalibrate how involved you need to be in people, in your head? Because this sort of thing can definitely manifest itself through the words and actions you employ with those people, it's not something that always stays internal.
posted by erratic meatsack at 1:42 PM on September 3, 2015 [13 favorites]
Because in my case, reading your long updates in this thread about her possible thought process or you trying to figure out what it means when she does [action] but then doesn't do [action] and so on and so forth, comes across as too much. This is the level of energy people put into interpreting possible crushes and romantic interests, it's way too involved for a friendship.
Maybe recalibrate how involved you need to be in people, in your head? Because this sort of thing can definitely manifest itself through the words and actions you employ with those people, it's not something that always stays internal.
posted by erratic meatsack at 1:42 PM on September 3, 2015 [13 favorites]
You need to either talk to her about it or just let this go. The degree to which you are coming back to this thread suggests you are failing to take the advice you claimed to find most valuable: just back off and let it go, it isn't worth this investment of time and effort. Yet, you are still obsessing, which kind of suggests that at least part of the problem comes from your end, possibly the largest part of the problem. I suggest that any future thought you give to the matter should focus on your end of things more than hers.
posted by Michele in California at 1:49 PM on September 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Michele in California at 1:49 PM on September 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I mean, it could also suggest that you just think AskMe is a chat space when it is not. Maybe it suggests this AskMe was such a warm fuzzy experience that you just want to come back and exchange more warm fuzzies. So I don't mean to accuse you of anything. I just think you need to move on from this, regardless of why you are coming back here.
posted by Michele in California at 2:30 PM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Michele in California at 2:30 PM on September 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
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The problem is that you have too much invested in this friendship with a married woman. I'm not even saying it's the opposite sex thing, although I wouldn't rule it out. It sounds like she has a life with other things filling it, and you don't. Try filling your life with other things.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:46 AM on September 1, 2015 [21 favorites]