birth certificate nonsense
October 30, 2014 7:41 AM Subscribe
My passport expired, and thus I am having a time getting the correct i-9 documentation for my new job. I am told I need originals of all documents. How do original birth certificates work?
My mother overnighted me my Louisiana birth certificate, and it has a phrase on it that troubles me and makes me worry it won't work for my purposes: "this record is valid for birth only." Googling on that phrase finds me adoptees and soon-to-be cruise-ship-passengers who also have that stamped on their Louisiana BC and are similarly confused, but there aren't answers.
Basically, I need to know if this version of my birth certificate is an official document that I can use for i-9 purposes. I was told I cannot use a copy--and this is absolutely not a photocopy; it has raised ink for the seal and the border. It's the "valid for birth only" that confuses me.
Here is a picture. For reference, compare it to Bobby Jindal's, which I found while I was trying to see what an official Louisiana birth certificate should look like.
Before you ask, yes, I know I could use my social security card, but alas, I don't know where it is. It is likely somewhere in a large storage unit that, if you tell me my birth certificate won't work, I will spend the next three days going through.
My mother overnighted me my Louisiana birth certificate, and it has a phrase on it that troubles me and makes me worry it won't work for my purposes: "this record is valid for birth only." Googling on that phrase finds me adoptees and soon-to-be cruise-ship-passengers who also have that stamped on their Louisiana BC and are similarly confused, but there aren't answers.
Basically, I need to know if this version of my birth certificate is an official document that I can use for i-9 purposes. I was told I cannot use a copy--and this is absolutely not a photocopy; it has raised ink for the seal and the border. It's the "valid for birth only" that confuses me.
Here is a picture. For reference, compare it to Bobby Jindal's, which I found while I was trying to see what an official Louisiana birth certificate should look like.
Before you ask, yes, I know I could use my social security card, but alas, I don't know where it is. It is likely somewhere in a large storage unit that, if you tell me my birth certificate won't work, I will spend the next three days going through.
It should be fine as long as it has the raised seal.
My take on the "Valid for birth only" is that that particular pre-printed piece of paper in the state records office is to be used for printing birth certificates only and not for say death certificates, marriage licenses, or property titles. Its to help cut down on fraud both on the clerks end (selling shady documents) and the receivers end (washing the ink and re-using it for something else).
posted by Captain_Science at 7:52 AM on October 30, 2014 [6 favorites]
My take on the "Valid for birth only" is that that particular pre-printed piece of paper in the state records office is to be used for printing birth certificates only and not for say death certificates, marriage licenses, or property titles. Its to help cut down on fraud both on the clerks end (selling shady documents) and the receivers end (washing the ink and re-using it for something else).
posted by Captain_Science at 7:52 AM on October 30, 2014 [6 favorites]
It's probably fine. Take it in to your employer, if they accept it, cool, if not, worry about it then.
posted by phunniemee at 7:53 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by phunniemee at 7:53 AM on October 30, 2014
"Valid for birth only" means exactly that - it is only valid to show proof of birth facts (that the named person was born in the US on that date). That's what you need it for.
It's official because it's signed by the state registrar. It's original because it has a raised seal - it has not be photocopied.
posted by muddgirl at 7:53 AM on October 30, 2014
It's official because it's signed by the state registrar. It's original because it has a raised seal - it has not be photocopied.
posted by muddgirl at 7:53 AM on October 30, 2014
That came out more forceful than I intended - the first sentence is my interpretation. The last sentence is my experience with government documents.
posted by muddgirl at 7:55 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by muddgirl at 7:55 AM on October 30, 2014
Response by poster: Just want to clarify one thing--the "raised seal" is raised in the sense that if you run your finger over it, you can feel the ink. It's not embossed into the paper, or a gold sticker, or something. Still with me?
Thank you all so far!
posted by millipede at 8:02 AM on October 30, 2014
Thank you all so far!
posted by millipede at 8:02 AM on October 30, 2014
You can get a replacement social security card for free, FYI. It takes some time to arrive in the mail though, maybe up to 10 days.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:02 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:02 AM on October 30, 2014
Yeah not sure if this is what you are asking but in this context "original" means "not a copy" rather than "the first one you ever had issued". So you are good to go because that's an official document rather than a janky photocopy.
posted by Sternmeyer at 8:05 AM on October 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Sternmeyer at 8:05 AM on October 30, 2014 [8 favorites]
A copy you get from the state/county is fine, that is "original" in that it is an actual document issued from the state/county.
You can't use a photocopy of that or a scan of that.
(HR person who spends a lot of time doing I9s)
posted by magnetsphere at 8:15 AM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
You can't use a photocopy of that or a scan of that.
(HR person who spends a lot of time doing I9s)
posted by magnetsphere at 8:15 AM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Seconding that you're okay. Not only is it not a photocopy, just because it's different doesn't mean there's a problem. The state I was born in didn't issue official birth certificates until years after I was born, so my so-called birth certificate is different than what is considered "normal," and I've never had a problem with it - including getting a passport - as it's still been considered official every time.
You probably used that birth certificate to get your passport, your first driver's license, or even your SS#, yes? If you did, then that should ease your mind about its "officialness".
posted by barchan at 8:16 AM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
You probably used that birth certificate to get your passport, your first driver's license, or even your SS#, yes? If you did, then that should ease your mind about its "officialness".
posted by barchan at 8:16 AM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Nthing they just mean "an official cert, not a photocopy, etc". You should be good.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:16 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:16 AM on October 30, 2014
It is okay. My Louisiana birth certificate is like that as well.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:26 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:26 AM on October 30, 2014
I just got my passport with one of these.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:45 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by cjorgensen at 8:45 AM on October 30, 2014
I was born in Louisiana and use my birth certificate for purposes of identity establishment all the time with no trouble at all.
Not two weeks ago I was at the DMV showing them my Louisiana birth certificate as proof that I am who I say I am, in order to get a California license.
My real true original birth certificate was lost in Katrina, after which I got a new one. Like yours, mine doesn't have an embossed seal (and is otherwise clearly not the actual birth certificate that was created when I was born 33 years ago). In fact, mine doesn't even look as official as yours does! This has not been a problem.
posted by Sara C. at 8:46 AM on October 30, 2014
Not two weeks ago I was at the DMV showing them my Louisiana birth certificate as proof that I am who I say I am, in order to get a California license.
My real true original birth certificate was lost in Katrina, after which I got a new one. Like yours, mine doesn't have an embossed seal (and is otherwise clearly not the actual birth certificate that was created when I was born 33 years ago). In fact, mine doesn't even look as official as yours does! This has not been a problem.
posted by Sara C. at 8:46 AM on October 30, 2014
It's true that the free SS card takes days to come in the mail, but you leave the office with a temp "card " that can be used on the same way your actual card is used.
posted by atomicstone at 9:08 AM on October 30, 2014
posted by atomicstone at 9:08 AM on October 30, 2014
Just to chime in and agree that, yeah, all they want is a certificate comes directly from the state, not a copy machine.
(More for the anecdote files: I got a passport with a birth certificate I got from my birth state about ten years ago --- and I assure you, I was born long before they printed it out. And here's a laugh: my SSN card specifically states in large type that it is "Not To Be Used For Identification Purposes". I'm old.)
posted by easily confused at 9:41 AM on October 30, 2014
(More for the anecdote files: I got a passport with a birth certificate I got from my birth state about ten years ago --- and I assure you, I was born long before they printed it out. And here's a laugh: my SSN card specifically states in large type that it is "Not To Be Used For Identification Purposes". I'm old.)
posted by easily confused at 9:41 AM on October 30, 2014
I agree that this document should be fine.
A receipt for replacement of a lost social security card is also a valid Column C document (see the I-9 instructions and the employer handbook). So, if you're still not 100% reassured, you could apply for a new social security card at your local SSA and get a receipt.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:17 PM on October 30, 2014
A receipt for replacement of a lost social security card is also a valid Column C document (see the I-9 instructions and the employer handbook). So, if you're still not 100% reassured, you could apply for a new social security card at your local SSA and get a receipt.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:17 PM on October 30, 2014
You used to be able to use an expired passport. Looks like that changed in 2009.
posted by aniola at 1:22 PM on October 30, 2014
posted by aniola at 1:22 PM on October 30, 2014
The only interpretation of the phrase that comes to mind is that it only proves you were born and, in some sense, is not "identification" -- which is fine, because you likely have other identification.
My ex was career military and he was a citizen of the state of Georgia where he paid taxes and had voting rights. His driver's license was also from there. One year when we were living really far away, he had to renew his driver's license by mail. They sent him a new license, but it had no photograph on it and, in the place where the photo usually goes, was a white space with a statement indicating it was not to be used as identification. It sort of didn't matter because he had photo ID from the Army. But he was on recruiting duty, so for the only time in his career, we were not at a military base. We were in a town where there was no military base. And every local merchant wanting a photo ID defaulted to asking for a driver's license. Any town near a big military base in the US is happy to take an Army ID card, but these folks were not used to that and he would pull out his Army ID and show that and they would say "No, I need a driver's license to take your check." So he would sigh and pull that out and show them that it licensed him to drive a car but it had no photo and stated right on it that it was not to be used for ID.
For doing things like renting a mail box, you need two forms of ID and one of them needs to show proof of address. There is a list of specific things they take. And I was surprised to see the list and see some of the things they do not take as identification.
So it might mean just this thing I have run into on a few occasions when dealing with paperwork that "This document is good for this specific use and nothing else." In this case, "This is proof of birth and that's all it is, not to be used for anything else."
And, yes, you can get a replacement Social Security card (if you know the number). But there is a lifetime limit for such requests, with a few provisos for exceptions. I mean "I lost mine or can't find it or don't want to dig through a storage unit for three days" is not one of their good reasons to get a new one. (A good reason includes when a woman changes her last name because she got married.) And those replacement cards for "I just want a new one, cuz REASONS" are limited. You don't want to use them too frivolously. But, yes, it can be gotten and doesn't necessarily take terribly long, nor a crap ton of paperwork/ID/whatever. I got one about 2.5 years ago and I think I had a state ID and nothing else and they had me answer some questions in their database to check if I was really me and I had it in short order. It was one of the easiest documentation hoops I had to jump through. Getting other papers straightened out was far more challenging.
Upon, preview: Yes, I used my receipt for my request for my new Social Security card as the proof I needed to file my taxes that year. So, yes, you don't even need to wait for the card. You can probably get a receipt faster than you can go through your storage unit.
But your birth certificate sounds like it is fine.
posted by Michele in California at 1:24 PM on October 30, 2014
My ex was career military and he was a citizen of the state of Georgia where he paid taxes and had voting rights. His driver's license was also from there. One year when we were living really far away, he had to renew his driver's license by mail. They sent him a new license, but it had no photograph on it and, in the place where the photo usually goes, was a white space with a statement indicating it was not to be used as identification. It sort of didn't matter because he had photo ID from the Army. But he was on recruiting duty, so for the only time in his career, we were not at a military base. We were in a town where there was no military base. And every local merchant wanting a photo ID defaulted to asking for a driver's license. Any town near a big military base in the US is happy to take an Army ID card, but these folks were not used to that and he would pull out his Army ID and show that and they would say "No, I need a driver's license to take your check." So he would sigh and pull that out and show them that it licensed him to drive a car but it had no photo and stated right on it that it was not to be used for ID.
For doing things like renting a mail box, you need two forms of ID and one of them needs to show proof of address. There is a list of specific things they take. And I was surprised to see the list and see some of the things they do not take as identification.
So it might mean just this thing I have run into on a few occasions when dealing with paperwork that "This document is good for this specific use and nothing else." In this case, "This is proof of birth and that's all it is, not to be used for anything else."
And, yes, you can get a replacement Social Security card (if you know the number). But there is a lifetime limit for such requests, with a few provisos for exceptions. I mean "I lost mine or can't find it or don't want to dig through a storage unit for three days" is not one of their good reasons to get a new one. (A good reason includes when a woman changes her last name because she got married.) And those replacement cards for "I just want a new one, cuz REASONS" are limited. You don't want to use them too frivolously. But, yes, it can be gotten and doesn't necessarily take terribly long, nor a crap ton of paperwork/ID/whatever. I got one about 2.5 years ago and I think I had a state ID and nothing else and they had me answer some questions in their database to check if I was really me and I had it in short order. It was one of the easiest documentation hoops I had to jump through. Getting other papers straightened out was far more challenging.
Upon, preview: Yes, I used my receipt for my request for my new Social Security card as the proof I needed to file my taxes that year. So, yes, you don't even need to wait for the card. You can probably get a receipt faster than you can go through your storage unit.
But your birth certificate sounds like it is fine.
posted by Michele in California at 1:24 PM on October 30, 2014
But there is a lifetime limit for such requests, with a few provisos for exceptions.
I don't think there is any limit. I have gotten a new card at least twice as an adult after getting my first as a teenager. I was never asked why I was getting one or informed of such a limit. I don't see any info on the ssa.gov website about a limit either.
posted by soelo at 2:15 PM on October 30, 2014
I don't think there is any limit. I have gotten a new card at least twice as an adult after getting my first as a teenager. I was never asked why I was getting one or informed of such a limit. I don't see any info on the ssa.gov website about a limit either.
posted by soelo at 2:15 PM on October 30, 2014
The SS card limit is three per year unless you have a copy of an official request from another government agency (a court judge, the military, etcetera). I was just in an SSA office and the limit notice was posted in the waiting area. I waited a long time.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 2:24 PM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by PorcineWithMe at 2:24 PM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
However, you are limited to three replacement cards in a year and 10 during your lifetime. Legal name changes and other exceptions do not count toward these limits. ... Also, you may not be affected by these limits if you can prove you need the card to prevent a significant hardship.
I am homeless. This is an issue for some homeless people, who lose things or get their stuff stolen on a routine basis. Being homeless is not one of the exceptions to the lifetime limit. If you have reached your lifetime limit, you can only get a new one if you can provide certain kinds of documentation compelling them to give you one. I think one case is where it is required in order to access certain benefits.
No, they don't ask the reason. But if you are a woman (as I am) and get married (as I did at one time) and change your legal name, you are required to get a new Social Security card so you can file taxes under your new legal name. So if you do that, they know why you did it. And if you breeze through there and ask for a new one every time you turn around just cuz you lost yours, at some point they will say "No, sir. You have hit your limit."
The card is FREE. Unlike with most government documents, like birth certificates, there is no charge to get a new one. I imagine that's why there is a limit: So people can't just be cavalier jerks pissing away government funds frivolously.
So if you have already lost it a couple of times, you might want to be mindful that you only have a certain number of freebie, no questions asked replacements left and keep better track of it in the future.
posted by Michele in California at 2:56 PM on October 30, 2014
I am homeless. This is an issue for some homeless people, who lose things or get their stuff stolen on a routine basis. Being homeless is not one of the exceptions to the lifetime limit. If you have reached your lifetime limit, you can only get a new one if you can provide certain kinds of documentation compelling them to give you one. I think one case is where it is required in order to access certain benefits.
No, they don't ask the reason. But if you are a woman (as I am) and get married (as I did at one time) and change your legal name, you are required to get a new Social Security card so you can file taxes under your new legal name. So if you do that, they know why you did it. And if you breeze through there and ask for a new one every time you turn around just cuz you lost yours, at some point they will say "No, sir. You have hit your limit."
The card is FREE. Unlike with most government documents, like birth certificates, there is no charge to get a new one. I imagine that's why there is a limit: So people can't just be cavalier jerks pissing away government funds frivolously.
So if you have already lost it a couple of times, you might want to be mindful that you only have a certain number of freebie, no questions asked replacements left and keep better track of it in the future.
posted by Michele in California at 2:56 PM on October 30, 2014
Is there a reason you can't use your expired passport?
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:08 PM on October 30, 2014
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:08 PM on October 30, 2014
Response by poster: Is there a reason you can't use your expired passport?
Yes. The HR person told me it could not be expired. I already missed my first week of work because of this, so I want to be safe.
posted by millipede at 3:10 PM on October 30, 2014
Yes. The HR person told me it could not be expired. I already missed my first week of work because of this, so I want to be safe.
posted by millipede at 3:10 PM on October 30, 2014
Ok, well I have had an HR person tell me that before too. They are factually incorrect, but I get that having a big argument over it isn't the best way to start a new job.
But they are factually wrong, and I believe breaking the law when they refuse to let you work despite having valid documentation.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:22 PM on October 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
But they are factually wrong, and I believe breaking the law when they refuse to let you work despite having valid documentation.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:22 PM on October 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just want to chime in to add clarity about adoptees having the same type of birth certificate and why it doesn't detract from the legitimacy of your certificate's status:
In nearly all US states since the 1940s, adoption decrees are co-issued with newly minted "amended" birth certificates with the adoptee's new name. These BCs fully replace the adoptee's original BC, which is then filed away in secret. The new BCs, which are identical to those of non-adoptees (though certain states have been through phases of adding the word "amended" causing tremendous problems getting passports etc) list the adoptive parents' names where the biological parents' names used to be.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 12:23 AM on October 31, 2014
In nearly all US states since the 1940s, adoption decrees are co-issued with newly minted "amended" birth certificates with the adoptee's new name. These BCs fully replace the adoptee's original BC, which is then filed away in secret. The new BCs, which are identical to those of non-adoptees (though certain states have been through phases of adding the word "amended" causing tremendous problems getting passports etc) list the adoptive parents' names where the biological parents' names used to be.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 12:23 AM on October 31, 2014
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posted by soelo at 7:50 AM on October 30, 2014 [4 favorites]