I want to beat my athletic buddy in our next 5k. How?!
September 21, 2014 3:10 PM Subscribe
Amateur runner here. I have a friend that I ran a 5k with recently. Even though I train waaaaay more than he does, he whooped me by quite a bit. He's definitely more athletically gifted than me, but I would like to show him up in at least one race for various reasons. Mefite Runners/competitive racers: What can I do in the meantime before the next race regarding training/mindset/etc. so I can put him in his place at least once? Details inside.
During the race, he started out at a faster pace that I thought would eventually tire him out. It didn't. He stayed at around that pace until the end of the race, while I just kept falling steadily behind. I slowed down majorly at the end, but even if I had kept up my original pace I would have finished way after him. I finished over a minute behind him.
I've only been in a few races, but in this race in particular I feel that my negative mindset really hurt my performance. I started with the self-defeating thoughts early on: "It's still mile 2? I already feel out of steam. The song I'm playing was supposed to motivate me but I'm just getting sick of it... wait, my friend's THAT far ahead?! God, I'm so tired... let's just slow down a bit."
I have a hard time quelling these thoughts. I finished with maybe 5% left in the tank. I was upset with myself that I wasn't able to give it my all. My friend was far enough ahead so that even if I did run a perfect race I think he would be ahead at this point.
My friend is not only intensely competitive... it's also pretty obvious to me that he has better "genes" when it comes to sports in general; he's more coordinated than I am, can push through pain, and has incredible stamina even without training (Well, he does work a physically demanding job, which definitely helps with his endurance. But I'm pretty sure he does not do specific training for runs). I would normally be able to accept this and admit defeat, but he has quite the ego. He's a "Well, of course I finished before you without training. I'm ME" trash-talking type of fellow. Needless to say, I'd like to beat him and put him in his place at least once.
Mefite runners: I'd like some tips on what kind of training regimen I could pursue in order to beat my friend the next time we run, which is probably in a month or so. Right now I just do trail runs from 3 miles to 5 miles in length, and don't worry too much about pace; I usually just decide to run slow/medium/fast for a certain amount of time.
In 5k's, 7:21/mile is my personal best, and his is around 7:00/mile... so I have at least a minute of ground to catch up on. I'd also appreciate advice on maintaining a positive mindset; I think keeping negative thoughts out of my mind while running would play a huge factor in my performance. Any other advice is welcome as well.
With improved training plans/a better mindset, maybe I can put something together. I know winning may be unrealistic given the short amount of time I have before the next race, but even giving the guy a run for his money would be okay with me. Thanks.
PS: My friend has good points too, it's just his ego that makes me want to show him up. So no need to give responses like "he sounds like a bad friend" or whatever. Please stick to answering what I am asking, and help me win! :)
During the race, he started out at a faster pace that I thought would eventually tire him out. It didn't. He stayed at around that pace until the end of the race, while I just kept falling steadily behind. I slowed down majorly at the end, but even if I had kept up my original pace I would have finished way after him. I finished over a minute behind him.
I've only been in a few races, but in this race in particular I feel that my negative mindset really hurt my performance. I started with the self-defeating thoughts early on: "It's still mile 2? I already feel out of steam. The song I'm playing was supposed to motivate me but I'm just getting sick of it... wait, my friend's THAT far ahead?! God, I'm so tired... let's just slow down a bit."
I have a hard time quelling these thoughts. I finished with maybe 5% left in the tank. I was upset with myself that I wasn't able to give it my all. My friend was far enough ahead so that even if I did run a perfect race I think he would be ahead at this point.
My friend is not only intensely competitive... it's also pretty obvious to me that he has better "genes" when it comes to sports in general; he's more coordinated than I am, can push through pain, and has incredible stamina even without training (Well, he does work a physically demanding job, which definitely helps with his endurance. But I'm pretty sure he does not do specific training for runs). I would normally be able to accept this and admit defeat, but he has quite the ego. He's a "Well, of course I finished before you without training. I'm ME" trash-talking type of fellow. Needless to say, I'd like to beat him and put him in his place at least once.
Mefite runners: I'd like some tips on what kind of training regimen I could pursue in order to beat my friend the next time we run, which is probably in a month or so. Right now I just do trail runs from 3 miles to 5 miles in length, and don't worry too much about pace; I usually just decide to run slow/medium/fast for a certain amount of time.
In 5k's, 7:21/mile is my personal best, and his is around 7:00/mile... so I have at least a minute of ground to catch up on. I'd also appreciate advice on maintaining a positive mindset; I think keeping negative thoughts out of my mind while running would play a huge factor in my performance. Any other advice is welcome as well.
With improved training plans/a better mindset, maybe I can put something together. I know winning may be unrealistic given the short amount of time I have before the next race, but even giving the guy a run for his money would be okay with me. Thanks.
PS: My friend has good points too, it's just his ego that makes me want to show him up. So no need to give responses like "he sounds like a bad friend" or whatever. Please stick to answering what I am asking, and help me win! :)
Best answer: Intervals. Intervals intervals intervals. There's loads of intervals training programs, or Tabata by another name. They were made for this kind of distance. Maybe chuck in a bit of hills training while you're at it. A minute over 5km is a lot to make up, no doubt about it. But you will see good progress. Hal Higdon has some free training programs on his site, give it a crack, and best of luck!
posted by smoke at 3:23 PM on September 21, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by smoke at 3:23 PM on September 21, 2014 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Right now I just do trail runs from 3 miles to 5 miles in length, and don't worry too much about pace; I usually just decide to run slow/medium/fast for a certain amount of time.
This is your problem. You're not training for speed. Gotta train for speed.
Wind sprints are your friend, because they'll get you past the "I'm tired" wall better than anything else I know. Your friend knows how to go fast and stay there, and that's a matter of training your lungs and muscles to a place that is beyond your failure point. While you're running, go faster and then sprint in intervals on a regular basis.
posted by xingcat at 3:25 PM on September 21, 2014 [9 favorites]
This is your problem. You're not training for speed. Gotta train for speed.
Wind sprints are your friend, because they'll get you past the "I'm tired" wall better than anything else I know. Your friend knows how to go fast and stay there, and that's a matter of training your lungs and muscles to a place that is beyond your failure point. While you're running, go faster and then sprint in intervals on a regular basis.
posted by xingcat at 3:25 PM on September 21, 2014 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Run hills. Lots of hills. Also, the night before the race, do shots of clear liquor with him. But replace your shots with water, on the sly.
posted by grateful at 3:54 PM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by grateful at 3:54 PM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Intervals, definitely, but don't overdo it - once or maybe twice a week. Conversely, though, I found my 5-10k speed increased dramatically when I started doing a lot more long runs, regardless of pace. So that's something.
But honestly, a month is not that long to make a meaningful increase in your speed, so you'll probably have to break his leg if you want to beat him in a month. ;)
posted by obfuscation at 4:03 PM on September 21, 2014 [4 favorites]
But honestly, a month is not that long to make a meaningful increase in your speed, so you'll probably have to break his leg if you want to beat him in a month. ;)
posted by obfuscation at 4:03 PM on September 21, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Intervals to be sure. But prep nutritionally well also. If you're interested in legal and safe supplants, beetroot shots and caffeine. Google the best dose and time to take. The nutritionist I went to a lecture from said that beetroot (beets if you're American, I think) said just juice was not enough. It needs to be concentrate.
posted by taff at 4:32 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by taff at 4:32 PM on September 21, 2014
Best answer: Yes to speed work but also you've got to learn how to put the hurt on yourself and deal mentally with the pain so you tune out the 'let's slow down a bit' chatter in your head. You've got to do that in training in order to take that over to race day. (And some people are just assholes when they beat you. IMHO unless he won the whole thing he should shut his yap.)
posted by poissonrouge at 5:11 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by poissonrouge at 5:11 PM on September 21, 2014
Best answer: My fastest 5K is slightly faster than your buddy's fastest 5k, so I'll tell you what worked for me. Up to about 7:30/mile I got faster by running. After that I actually had to throw some speed work in there (although I didn't do this in a methodical way). It didn't come naturally. I mostly did fartlek although I mixed it up with 1/2 mile fast and 1/2 mile jog. I was also doing longer runs. 8 miles most days, with 12+ miles on the weekend, so that might have had something to do with it.
On the day, if you ht the second mile marker and you aren't hating life, you have gone out too slow. For the first mile you should feel like you are getting a workout. The second mile will be very hard. The third mile will be a death-march. You need a lot of mental strength to get through that. One thing that helped me was that the 5k was run on a course I ran most days. I knew every single turn. I knew when I could speed up and when I had to slow down and I knew, to the meter, when I could start my final sprint for the finish.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 6:40 PM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
On the day, if you ht the second mile marker and you aren't hating life, you have gone out too slow. For the first mile you should feel like you are getting a workout. The second mile will be very hard. The third mile will be a death-march. You need a lot of mental strength to get through that. One thing that helped me was that the 5k was run on a course I ran most days. I knew every single turn. I knew when I could speed up and when I had to slow down and I knew, to the meter, when I could start my final sprint for the finish.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 6:40 PM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
Best answer: A 5k has a little strategy involved. Definitely focus on anaerobic intervals as noted above. However, on race day, go out faster than you would pace yourself the first 1/2 mile, then find a pace that is an 8/10 perceived effort, then basically redline the last mile to the finish. 5ks are intense. You need to condition yourself to basically go all out and the quickest way is with anaerobic intervals, or if you have a track, 400m repeats.
Finally: on a hill, about 3/4 up, push it, and don't let up until you reach the bottom. It's gets them every time.
posted by floweredfish at 6:57 PM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Finally: on a hill, about 3/4 up, push it, and don't let up until you reach the bottom. It's gets them every time.
posted by floweredfish at 6:57 PM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I commend you for wanting to beat your friend.
Wind sprints.
posted by mearls at 6:58 PM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Wind sprints.
posted by mearls at 6:58 PM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Did you or your friend get water in the race? Not getting water could shave a few seconds.
Play on your friends ego. Your going to kick butt training for a month and when the race starts you are going to run RIGHT BEHIND HIM. Uncomfortably close. It will mess with his pace, maybe make him blowup.
It's not just running but cardio, and if you can fit something besides running that will help; you can even do intervals swimming or cycling too, you just have to get your heart rate up, up, UP!
Do you have a track nearby, or a nice stretch of trail where you can push yourself to 90-95% effort for 400/800m? With a track it's easy to do your interval then recover half the distance with a walk or light jog. Related but maybe look up HIIT.
With a month left I'd do 3 fast days and a long day and other sports if you can fit it in.
One day might be a warmup then run 3/4 800m intervals with rest in between. A day of 8-10 400m runs (with 200m recovery). A day where you go out and run 3/4 miles doing a fartlek (just have fun, lets sprint to that tree). And lets do a 6 mile day recovering from your rough week.
Sunday Long/Tuesday 800s/Thursday 400s/Friday fartlek.
If you have access to a soccer field and your feeling really more M than S, do short sides mix it up with 10-20 lunges, hopping lunges, butt kicks and high knees until you get to the end of the short side, then sprint down the long. You could do this on your long day too with some slow running and some field runs without being too tired since you'd take a break Sat and Mon.
As taff said, CAFFEINE. If you drink caffeine now, cut it out 100% so that you are more sensitive. I used to not drink coffee so I would use caffeine pills, but, a cup or 2 of coffee FINISHED an hour before the race is better and cheaper.
The warm liquid will get your bowels moving too.
Get psyched up, break in some new shoes or stretchy shiny laces, cushy new socks, I always wear some red: i read somewhere years ago it makes you feel and race, faster.
I like to finish eating 45 min an hour before but a little water is fine.
Finally if you have some extra flabby flab try cutting it. I think I read that 1 min is added to marathon time for every pound of unnecessary fat. Everybody's got 5.
Good luck and post results!
posted by valhallan at 6:58 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Play on your friends ego. Your going to kick butt training for a month and when the race starts you are going to run RIGHT BEHIND HIM. Uncomfortably close. It will mess with his pace, maybe make him blowup.
It's not just running but cardio, and if you can fit something besides running that will help; you can even do intervals swimming or cycling too, you just have to get your heart rate up, up, UP!
Do you have a track nearby, or a nice stretch of trail where you can push yourself to 90-95% effort for 400/800m? With a track it's easy to do your interval then recover half the distance with a walk or light jog. Related but maybe look up HIIT.
With a month left I'd do 3 fast days and a long day and other sports if you can fit it in.
One day might be a warmup then run 3/4 800m intervals with rest in between. A day of 8-10 400m runs (with 200m recovery). A day where you go out and run 3/4 miles doing a fartlek (just have fun, lets sprint to that tree). And lets do a 6 mile day recovering from your rough week.
Sunday Long/Tuesday 800s/Thursday 400s/Friday fartlek.
If you have access to a soccer field and your feeling really more M than S, do short sides mix it up with 10-20 lunges, hopping lunges, butt kicks and high knees until you get to the end of the short side, then sprint down the long. You could do this on your long day too with some slow running and some field runs without being too tired since you'd take a break Sat and Mon.
As taff said, CAFFEINE. If you drink caffeine now, cut it out 100% so that you are more sensitive. I used to not drink coffee so I would use caffeine pills, but, a cup or 2 of coffee FINISHED an hour before the race is better and cheaper.
The warm liquid will get your bowels moving too.
Get psyched up, break in some new shoes or stretchy shiny laces, cushy new socks, I always wear some red: i read somewhere years ago it makes you feel and race, faster.
I like to finish eating 45 min an hour before but a little water is fine.
Finally if you have some extra flabby flab try cutting it. I think I read that 1 min is added to marathon time for every pound of unnecessary fat. Everybody's got 5.
Good luck and post results!
posted by valhallan at 6:58 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: And I never trained 2 days before a race. It's not a test, you can't cram. Race warmup, a little jog 10min before if you want. I didn't care. Years ago I was in an IM. Everyone is bouncing up and down and running and swimming in the water, like they weren't going to be racing all day anyway. The german pro; no warmups, just german cool: he won.
posted by valhallan at 7:14 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by valhallan at 7:14 PM on September 21, 2014
Best answer: Hill runs once a week and some intervals..and plan on winning next year.
posted by tarvuz at 9:35 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by tarvuz at 9:35 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Like everyone else said, do sprints and intervals and hill training. Your time is good already, so faster is harder than if you were slower now.
In the race, consider it a sprint and start out faster than you think you should, because you should have more energy and willpower than in training. Don't let him get ahead of you even if you think it's too fast, he'll be stressing out that he hasn't lost you.
Ultimately, a 5k can be short enough that willpower is almost more important than training. It's going to hurt basically the whole time and it sucks and you want to puke at the end and that's okay. For me, having some sort of stupid mantra in my head helps to repeat over and over so I don't have negative thoughts. I use 'I like hills' to try and convince myself I don't hate them, but 'I'm going to do this' 'go faster' something more positive, whatever.
posted by raeka at 10:06 PM on September 21, 2014
In the race, consider it a sprint and start out faster than you think you should, because you should have more energy and willpower than in training. Don't let him get ahead of you even if you think it's too fast, he'll be stressing out that he hasn't lost you.
Ultimately, a 5k can be short enough that willpower is almost more important than training. It's going to hurt basically the whole time and it sucks and you want to puke at the end and that's okay. For me, having some sort of stupid mantra in my head helps to repeat over and over so I don't have negative thoughts. I use 'I like hills' to try and convince myself I don't hate them, but 'I'm going to do this' 'go faster' something more positive, whatever.
posted by raeka at 10:06 PM on September 21, 2014
Best answer: Like everyone said, intervals. I would be systematic about it though.
Go to a track and run 400s and 800s, several each, and when you get a little stronger run 1600s. Do this once a week (twice, maybe, but probably not at first -- you don't want to do this feeling tired). It is essential that you time yourself and track your progress. Be disciplined about it. You will improve dramatically at first since you haven't been doing this at all and it will be extremely gratifying. Intervals are like crack for your running. I have been doing 1600 intervals as part of marathon training to improve my running efficiency and it is incredible how much faster I can run now without even trying.
posted by half life at 11:44 PM on September 21, 2014
Go to a track and run 400s and 800s, several each, and when you get a little stronger run 1600s. Do this once a week (twice, maybe, but probably not at first -- you don't want to do this feeling tired). It is essential that you time yourself and track your progress. Be disciplined about it. You will improve dramatically at first since you haven't been doing this at all and it will be extremely gratifying. Intervals are like crack for your running. I have been doing 1600 intervals as part of marathon training to improve my running efficiency and it is incredible how much faster I can run now without even trying.
posted by half life at 11:44 PM on September 21, 2014
Best answer: 1) You were left "with maybe 5% left in the tank." 2) He "can push through pain." So if you really want to stick with him, then just stick with him. The whole race. No matter what. Intervals will help you not only physically but psychologically, because they hurt. And it will hurt to stick with him, in part because he's hurting too.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:19 AM on September 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:19 AM on September 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone. I hear a lot of people saying to do intervals or HIIT, but since I started running in the last half-year or so... is that safe? I heard that you need to be running for a while before you step up to weekly sprints. (I am in my early 30s, by the way).
posted by Thanquol180 at 8:52 AM on September 22, 2014
posted by Thanquol180 at 8:52 AM on September 22, 2014
I was a 5k specialist in high school and college, a long time ago, so I'm not going to refer to modern science because my knowledge is from the stone age.
You do not need a shit ton of endurance for the 5k. You do need speed, and like anything else, you can train for speed. That run where you don't care about pace? Start pushing yourself. Time it. Do it a little faster. And a little faster. If you're not pushing yourself the entire run, you're missing out.
Also intervals. You'll become more biomechanically efficient at faster paces by running fast again and again, pushing through exhaustion.
Also hill runs to develop your quads and further learn to push yourself.
If you train for speed, you will get faster. That's it: no fancy diet, no special supplements. Practice running faster and you'll run faster.
posted by zippy at 10:35 AM on September 22, 2014
You do not need a shit ton of endurance for the 5k. You do need speed, and like anything else, you can train for speed. That run where you don't care about pace? Start pushing yourself. Time it. Do it a little faster. And a little faster. If you're not pushing yourself the entire run, you're missing out.
Also intervals. You'll become more biomechanically efficient at faster paces by running fast again and again, pushing through exhaustion.
Also hill runs to develop your quads and further learn to push yourself.
If you train for speed, you will get faster. That's it: no fancy diet, no special supplements. Practice running faster and you'll run faster.
posted by zippy at 10:35 AM on September 22, 2014
If you started falling behind your original pace (read: couldn't maintain your pace) on a 5k, then you definitely still need to work on your endurance (along with the interval/strength work that people mention).
Think of it this way, if you finished a minute behind, in a 5k, you need to drop your km pace (how many minutes/km) by only 12 seconds per km. If you're just starting out, this is totally do-able!
I ran my first 10k (on paved roads) about 2-3 months ago. I can now maintain a pace 10 seconds faster than that on hilly gravel trails, and I'm now about 45 seconds faster on paved roads. Only us beginning runners get to say crazy things like that.
Get an app for your phone which will read out splits as you run. Work on paying attention to how you feel as you run so you can feel your split speed as you run. Also, youtube "heel strike" "midfoot strike" and "forefoot strike" - try working on making your form consistent. Since you're a beginning runner, consider reading up on the various stikes/gaits and consider changing. When you're racing, you should be able to just listen to how your body feels rather than worrying about your gait.
Hills are great; I've got a good 2 degree grade long climb that I need to take to get home, and that got me up the hills that slowed others running around my pace. I recently found a hill that surprised me and I ended up walking up the last 50 feet. That won't last, and I'll be that much better at climbing less steep hills.
Diet; your body will want to make more muscle after a work out - give it the protein to do so. As soon as you can after a work out get a meal/smoothy/what not into you with at least 25g of protein. Costco sells 2kg of whey protein c
You mention that you're training much more than your nemesis? Are you training too much and taxing your body? If you're a beginning runner, I think that every other day is recommended, and at most 10-20% increase in distance each week. Did you taper before the race?
posted by nobeagle at 11:40 AM on September 22, 2014
Think of it this way, if you finished a minute behind, in a 5k, you need to drop your km pace (how many minutes/km) by only 12 seconds per km. If you're just starting out, this is totally do-able!
I ran my first 10k (on paved roads) about 2-3 months ago. I can now maintain a pace 10 seconds faster than that on hilly gravel trails, and I'm now about 45 seconds faster on paved roads. Only us beginning runners get to say crazy things like that.
Get an app for your phone which will read out splits as you run. Work on paying attention to how you feel as you run so you can feel your split speed as you run. Also, youtube "heel strike" "midfoot strike" and "forefoot strike" - try working on making your form consistent. Since you're a beginning runner, consider reading up on the various stikes/gaits and consider changing. When you're racing, you should be able to just listen to how your body feels rather than worrying about your gait.
Hills are great; I've got a good 2 degree grade long climb that I need to take to get home, and that got me up the hills that slowed others running around my pace. I recently found a hill that surprised me and I ended up walking up the last 50 feet. That won't last, and I'll be that much better at climbing less steep hills.
Diet; your body will want to make more muscle after a work out - give it the protein to do so. As soon as you can after a work out get a meal/smoothy/what not into you with at least 25g of protein. Costco sells 2kg of whey protein c
You mention that you're training much more than your nemesis? Are you training too much and taxing your body? If you're a beginning runner, I think that every other day is recommended, and at most 10-20% increase in distance each week. Did you taper before the race?
posted by nobeagle at 11:40 AM on September 22, 2014
Ah, I feel stupid, somehow when I read this I missed your paragraph where you give your times. I had assumed amateur runner meant beginner, but I dream of having a 4:34 min/km pace so I'm going to assume neither of you are beginners. That might make that 12-20 seconds/km a bit harder to do in a month.
The possible comment re: diet and the question of if you're over training might still stand. Good luck, even if you plan for next year to be the year of "in your face."
posted by nobeagle at 6:57 AM on September 23, 2014
The possible comment re: diet and the question of if you're over training might still stand. Good luck, even if you plan for next year to be the year of "in your face."
posted by nobeagle at 6:57 AM on September 23, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
I find that I run my best races when I give exactly zero fucks about anyone else. Concentrate on your own feet, because you can't control anyone else's. Really, the things you mention here sound kind of small and petty. Focus on being the best runner that you can be, and forget about anyone else, because dwelling on others isn't going to help you much.
posted by punchtothehead at 3:20 PM on September 21, 2014