Question for film buffs
September 18, 2014 12:55 PM Subscribe
Here's a plot structure that I've seen in many films. A central character in the film is faced with a binary moral choice: (s)he can choose to go through the narrow gate or (s)he can choose the wide gate. (S)he knows that it's morally better to go through the narrow gate, but even so (s)he's tempted to go through the wide gate. We in the audience *hope* that (s)he chooses the narrow gate, and tension builds throughout the film as we wait to find out what choice (s)he makes. In the final scenes of the film, (s)he chooses the narrow gate. We in the audience are relieved that (s)he made the right choice - but there's a sadness too, because we know that the character didn't get to do what (s)he most wanted.
Over the fold, I've made a short list of films that have this plot structure (spoiler alert). Please give me more examples!
Examples:
- The Third Man
- Casablanca
- Roman Holiday
- Brief Encounter
All of these films date from the middle of the last century. For extra credit:
- Am I right in thinking that this plot structure is common in older films, but rare in recent films?
- If I am right about this, what does this say about contemporary culture? Are people less interested in moral courage than they used to be?
I mostly watch British and American films, but I'd also be interested to hear about films from elsewhere!
Examples:
- The Third Man
- Casablanca
- Roman Holiday
- Brief Encounter
All of these films date from the middle of the last century. For extra credit:
- Am I right in thinking that this plot structure is common in older films, but rare in recent films?
- If I am right about this, what does this say about contemporary culture? Are people less interested in moral courage than they used to be?
I mostly watch British and American films, but I'd also be interested to hear about films from elsewhere!
To clarify, are you talking about stories where the main character must choose between doing the The Right Thing and doing Something Defensible Which They Would Like More, But Is Less Right?
I'm not sure if these count, but Waitress and World's Greatest Dad seem somewhat in the vein of what you're talking about.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if these count, but Waitress and World's Greatest Dad seem somewhat in the vein of what you're talking about.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
A modern British film version of this device might be found in Filth, though in that, the character has already made the decision to go through the narrow gate, and we are seeing the fallout - it's only at the end where the widegate option is presented and declined.
posted by quin at 1:12 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by quin at 1:12 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
End of Star Wars/beginning of The Empire Strikes Back.
Han Solo deciding whether to take the money and run, or stay and help the Rebels.
(sorry if I'm misunderstanding the concept)
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Han Solo deciding whether to take the money and run, or stay and help the Rebels.
(sorry if I'm misunderstanding the concept)
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
The 25th Hour, Donnie Darko, and The Last Temptation of Christ spring to mind as well.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
If I am right about this, what does this say about contemporary culture? Are people less interested in moral courage than they used to be?
I'm not sure if you are, but if you are it says, frankly, that film has gotten a lot better as an art form. Early movies, especially in America once the censorship code came in, were often cloyingly moralistic in a way that would send modern audiences into gales of laughter. Today's films (when they're good) go for more naturalistic characters that resemble human beings, and do a lot of hard work to cloak the theme or "lesson" under a plausible story, rather than beating the audience about the head with it.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:19 PM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure if you are, but if you are it says, frankly, that film has gotten a lot better as an art form. Early movies, especially in America once the censorship code came in, were often cloyingly moralistic in a way that would send modern audiences into gales of laughter. Today's films (when they're good) go for more naturalistic characters that resemble human beings, and do a lot of hard work to cloak the theme or "lesson" under a plausible story, rather than beating the audience about the head with it.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:19 PM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
(Not that the ones you mentioned are bad films, but I think the larger point stands)
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:19 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:19 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
There's a particular type of tear-jerking romantic movie that ends this way, the "we long to be together but we must not", a la Brief Encounter, such as:
Witness (1985)
The Bridges of Madison County (1995)
These movies are included in a TVTropes category that seems relevant (though of course not comprehensive, and some of their examples don't actually end with the hard/self-sacrificing choice), called "I Want My Beloved To Be Happy".
posted by theatro at 1:20 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Witness (1985)
The Bridges of Madison County (1995)
These movies are included in a TVTropes category that seems relevant (though of course not comprehensive, and some of their examples don't actually end with the hard/self-sacrificing choice), called "I Want My Beloved To Be Happy".
posted by theatro at 1:20 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
The whole "wide gate" and "narrow gate" terminology is not clear and I'm not sure you needed to use these terms. I don't want to make too much of this, but the "wide gate" could be defined as thhe moral choice, since it's easier to make the moral choice, just as it's easier to pass through a "wide gate."
In Casablanca, Ilsa could go off with Rick, or stay with Victor. I guess you're saying that Victor is the "narrow gate," which you define as the moral choice.
I question your premise that the audience is hoping Ilsa will stay with Victor, the so-called moral choice, and are relieved when she does so. It is at least as plausible that the audience wants her to go with Rick, who is much more glamorous and exciting, and and who also shares with her the same political beliefs (who knew?) and a beautiful history.
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:23 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
In Casablanca, Ilsa could go off with Rick, or stay with Victor. I guess you're saying that Victor is the "narrow gate," which you define as the moral choice.
I question your premise that the audience is hoping Ilsa will stay with Victor, the so-called moral choice, and are relieved when she does so. It is at least as plausible that the audience wants her to go with Rick, who is much more glamorous and exciting, and and who also shares with her the same political beliefs (who knew?) and a beautiful history.
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:23 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
TV Tropes: You Did the Right Thing.
posted by jbickers at 1:24 PM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by jbickers at 1:24 PM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
JimN2TAW, the reference to the gates metaphor is likely Matthew 7:13-14:
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
posted by PussKillian at 1:30 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
posted by PussKillian at 1:30 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
The recent Veronica Mars movie is kind of a flip of this trope, where she struggles throughout with the idea of getting sucked back into putting out little fires in her corrupt home town or starting a new life out in the bigger world.
Also I think The Devil Wears Prada where Anne Hathaway finds something she didn't know she was good at but is talked out of pursuing it by her jealous friends.
posted by bleep at 1:33 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also I think The Devil Wears Prada where Anne Hathaway finds something she didn't know she was good at but is talked out of pursuing it by her jealous friends.
posted by bleep at 1:33 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
The Last Temptation of Christ seems like an obvious example.
I don't think this structure is gone. "The Train Job" was an episode of Firefly that followed it.
posted by adamrice at 1:48 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think this structure is gone. "The Train Job" was an episode of Firefly that followed it.
posted by adamrice at 1:48 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's A Wonderful Life. Staying in Bedford Falls = narrow gate.
posted by tomboko at 1:53 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 1:53 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Spider-Man 2.
Bring It On.
Ong-Bak 3.
There's a lovely short in Paris Je T'aime which is about this as well.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:58 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Bring It On.
Ong-Bak 3.
There's a lovely short in Paris Je T'aime which is about this as well.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:58 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Fill The Void" did this beautifully.
Edith Wharton excelled at this, so the movies based on her books did as well:
The Age of Innocence
House of Mirth
posted by Mchelly at 2:11 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Edith Wharton excelled at this, so the movies based on her books did as well:
The Age of Innocence
House of Mirth
posted by Mchelly at 2:11 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
"The Graduate" does it backwards: they take the narrow gate at the end... and then wonder if it really was such a good idea.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:21 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:21 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Early movies, especially in America once the censorship code came in, were often cloyingly moralistic in a way that would send modern audiences into gales of laughter.
Cites? Not to be contentious, but curious what you have in mind. It's A Wonderful Life, a real gag-fest to my mind, seems to get a pass even in this jaded age. (And for cloying moralism, pre-Hayes code, look no further than Charlie Chaplin.)
On the other hand, modern movies have predictable Good/Bad dichotomies that are as manipulative and tendentious as anything from the old days, pre- or post- Hayes code.
Interesting issue. Have to think about it.
posted by IndigoJones at 2:26 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Cites? Not to be contentious, but curious what you have in mind. It's A Wonderful Life, a real gag-fest to my mind, seems to get a pass even in this jaded age. (And for cloying moralism, pre-Hayes code, look no further than Charlie Chaplin.)
On the other hand, modern movies have predictable Good/Bad dichotomies that are as manipulative and tendentious as anything from the old days, pre- or post- Hayes code.
Interesting issue. Have to think about it.
posted by IndigoJones at 2:26 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
American Beauty.
posted by effluvia at 3:07 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by effluvia at 3:07 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
"The Graduate" does it backwards: they take the narrow gate at the end... and then wonder if it really was such a good idea.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:21 PM on September 18 [+] [!]
With respect, this post highlights the problems with the OP's question. What is moral, the "narrow gate," and what is immoral, the "wide gate"? Chocolate Pickle suggests that the ending of the film is the more moral choice. I'd agree, since Elaine was being forced by Society and/or her parents into a crummy marriage with the Blond Asshole and not being permitted to lead her own life. So Ben desecrates the church and destroys a phone book (worse in my opinion), Elaine leaves the Blond Asshole at the altar, and Elaine and the scruffy but charming Ben run off into the sunset.
But I'd guess that by the OP's definition, they are taking the "wide gate." Desecrating a church, disrupting a marriage, running off on impulse without a fully baked plan of any kind. And if that weren't enough, Ben's a big adulterer.
Thanks to PussKillian for sourcing the "gate" metaphor. I question the idea that most people are immoral, i.e., they "take the wide gate to destruction," as proposed in the Matthew story.
posted by JimN2TAW at 3:18 PM on September 18, 2014
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:21 PM on September 18 [+] [!]
With respect, this post highlights the problems with the OP's question. What is moral, the "narrow gate," and what is immoral, the "wide gate"? Chocolate Pickle suggests that the ending of the film is the more moral choice. I'd agree, since Elaine was being forced by Society and/or her parents into a crummy marriage with the Blond Asshole and not being permitted to lead her own life. So Ben desecrates the church and destroys a phone book (worse in my opinion), Elaine leaves the Blond Asshole at the altar, and Elaine and the scruffy but charming Ben run off into the sunset.
But I'd guess that by the OP's definition, they are taking the "wide gate." Desecrating a church, disrupting a marriage, running off on impulse without a fully baked plan of any kind. And if that weren't enough, Ben's a big adulterer.
Thanks to PussKillian for sourcing the "gate" metaphor. I question the idea that most people are immoral, i.e., they "take the wide gate to destruction," as proposed in the Matthew story.
posted by JimN2TAW at 3:18 PM on September 18, 2014
Both of the films I can think of which flip this are romances in which a woman whose role in life is to be a dogsbody decides to stop suppressing her own self (seeing as society is all set up to do this relentlessly already) and go for the prize. Incidentally winning a rich handsome suitor in the process. Working Girl and Maid in Manhattan. And I think a self-effacing, self-sacrificing morality was very much expected of women in the past, which is one reason why this take-the-narrow-gate theme is much less popular in romantic films now. Personally I have a hard enough time understanding the characters' motivations in Brief Encounter as it is, let alone if it were a contemporary story.
There was an episode of Quantum Leap that flipped this in a very satisfying way: it was a reprise of American Graffitti where Sam has to leap into the bad boy character to make sure ....something or other happens because if Laurie marries Ron Howard she'll have a horrible life, Laurie decides the boys are all idiots and goes off to college herself.
Can I just point out that the fate of female characters who take the decision to look out for themself in films of this era is often horrible death? Niagara, Postman Always Rings Twice etc. Bad Girls Must Die. A theme the terribly reactionary Forrest Gump totally owned.
Sorry, another answer from me that went off at on a contradictory tangent.
posted by glasseyes at 3:20 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
There was an episode of Quantum Leap that flipped this in a very satisfying way: it was a reprise of American Graffitti where Sam has to leap into the bad boy character to make sure ....something or other happens because if Laurie marries Ron Howard she'll have a horrible life, Laurie decides the boys are all idiots and goes off to college herself.
Can I just point out that the fate of female characters who take the decision to look out for themself in films of this era is often horrible death? Niagara, Postman Always Rings Twice etc. Bad Girls Must Die. A theme the terribly reactionary Forrest Gump totally owned.
Sorry, another answer from me that went off at on a contradictory tangent.
posted by glasseyes at 3:20 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
There are some really good Pre-Code movies like this.
Baby-Face
Night Nurse
A really great one with a boffo ending is The Maltese Falcon. Where Sam Spade lays it all out for you.
I could go on and on, but I've been pigging out on Pre-Code flicks. So sexy!
Part of the morality in the first part of the 20th century was repressed sexuality, so there are a lot of films that have women exploring those lines and ultimately choosing to be good girls. This is why Barbara Stanwyk and Joan Crawford and Rosalind Russell and so many other actresses had such great parts!
If you think about it, it was all about Birth Control, once it became legal and easily available, expressing sexuality stopped having drastic, horrifying consequences (STDs, pregnancy,) having sex really was more of a interior, moral dilemma. (I could go on and on.)
Oh! The Women!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:12 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Baby-Face
Night Nurse
A really great one with a boffo ending is The Maltese Falcon. Where Sam Spade lays it all out for you.
I could go on and on, but I've been pigging out on Pre-Code flicks. So sexy!
Part of the morality in the first part of the 20th century was repressed sexuality, so there are a lot of films that have women exploring those lines and ultimately choosing to be good girls. This is why Barbara Stanwyk and Joan Crawford and Rosalind Russell and so many other actresses had such great parts!
If you think about it, it was all about Birth Control, once it became legal and easily available, expressing sexuality stopped having drastic, horrifying consequences (STDs, pregnancy,) having sex really was more of a interior, moral dilemma. (I could go on and on.)
Oh! The Women!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:12 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Prince of Tides.
posted by little mouth at 5:56 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by little mouth at 5:56 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Are people less interested in moral courage than they used to be?
This question might be answered by the movie ngram tool posted on the Blue yesterday!
The chart of "courage", "choice", etc.
posted by sylvanshine at 9:33 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
This question might be answered by the movie ngram tool posted on the Blue yesterday!
The chart of "courage", "choice", etc.
posted by sylvanshine at 9:33 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your excellent answers!
The bad news for me is that it turns out that my hypothesis that films with this plot structure were once common but are now rare seems to be false.
The good news for me is that I now have lots of great movies to watch!
posted by HoraceH at 2:17 PM on September 21, 2014
The bad news for me is that it turns out that my hypothesis that films with this plot structure were once common but are now rare seems to be false.
The good news for me is that I now have lots of great movies to watch!
posted by HoraceH at 2:17 PM on September 21, 2014
Not sure if you're still monitoring this thread, but I just had to come back and post because I just remembered that my favorite musical of all time, Aida, fits this trope to a T.
posted by mekily at 10:06 AM on September 25, 2014
posted by mekily at 10:06 AM on September 25, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]