Who gets to keep the apartment?
September 15, 2014 10:26 AM Subscribe
My boyfriend and I are moving in together, and we need a place to live. Currently, I share the lease on a great apartment with a friend. We've been there the same amount of time. I did all the (considerable) work of finding and most of the work of furnishing this place, but I'm also the one instigating this change. Who gets to stay?
What's your lease situation? As a general rule, I would say you don't get to kick your roommate out of your apartment for no reason. You do get to take any furniture that you bought and own with you when you leave. If you co-bought it one of you will need to split it in a way that seems even (or have one of you pay the other out).
posted by brainmouse at 10:29 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 10:29 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
Your roommate. Sorry. If you both moved in on the same date, and are both on the lease, you don't get to insist they change their life just because you want to change yours.
Offer to buy your roommate out or something, maybe they will agree.
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:30 AM on September 15, 2014 [41 favorites]
Offer to buy your roommate out or something, maybe they will agree.
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:30 AM on September 15, 2014 [41 favorites]
Agree with those who say the roommate stays/has first dibs. You're the one changing the circumstances here. If my roommate said "Hey, my boyfriend is moving in and you're moving out" I would be super pissed. But talk to her about it. Maybe you guys can work something out.
posted by futureisunwritten at 10:37 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by futureisunwritten at 10:37 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
You don't get to kick her out because you found the apartment. This isn't finder's keeper's. Of course you get to take anything you bought with you. Maybe she doesn't want to stay, or she'll give it up since she can't afford it on her own and doesn't want to search for a new roommate. We don't know. If you talk to her, you'll find out.
But I generally think if you're co-leasors, the person who wants to make the big life change should be the one to leave, if the other party is uninterested in leaving. I also tend to think it's better for relationships to have a fresh start where not everything feels like one person's. It may not seem like a big deal when he visits but when you actually live together, it's different.
posted by Aranquis at 10:38 AM on September 15, 2014 [13 favorites]
But I generally think if you're co-leasors, the person who wants to make the big life change should be the one to leave, if the other party is uninterested in leaving. I also tend to think it's better for relationships to have a fresh start where not everything feels like one person's. It may not seem like a big deal when he visits but when you actually live together, it's different.
posted by Aranquis at 10:38 AM on September 15, 2014 [13 favorites]
I did all the (considerable) work of finding and most of the work of furnishing this place, but I'm also the one instigating this change.
That's not really much of a "but" assuming they've been paying the rent and bills and don't expect to keep anything you bought.
If you have to move out, you have to move out. But you can't ask someone else to move out and expect them to just because you made a convincing argument. If they're cool with it, hey, good for you. If they don't want to leave, their name's right there on the lease and regardless of who found or furnished the place, they gets to stay until that lease runs out.
How is the lease getting transferred if you're both on it? Will the leaving roommate be written out and the new roommate written in? Will there be a new lease?
posted by griphus at 10:39 AM on September 15, 2014
That's not really much of a "but" assuming they've been paying the rent and bills and don't expect to keep anything you bought.
If you have to move out, you have to move out. But you can't ask someone else to move out and expect them to just because you made a convincing argument. If they're cool with it, hey, good for you. If they don't want to leave, their name's right there on the lease and regardless of who found or furnished the place, they gets to stay until that lease runs out.
How is the lease getting transferred if you're both on it? Will the leaving roommate be written out and the new roommate written in? Will there be a new lease?
posted by griphus at 10:39 AM on September 15, 2014
Change was your idea. You should be the one to experience change.
But talk to roommate. Maybe roommate was thinking about a change, anyway.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:42 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
But talk to roommate. Maybe roommate was thinking about a change, anyway.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 10:42 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
Talk to your roommate. You're the one changing things, so I agree tha t you should be the one to move, but... maybe you can use your skills to help roommate find another place, or another roommate situation, or maybe if you really like the place, you could offer to pay roommate's relocation expenses.
posted by theora55 at 10:44 AM on September 15, 2014
posted by theora55 at 10:44 AM on September 15, 2014
Here is how I look at it:
-You are both on the lease.
-You both want to stay.
-She is willing to stay with you or with a new roommate.
-You will not stay if she stays.
-You are only willing to stay if she moves out.
-You have already picked your new roommate.
-You're a good organizer and decorator.
Sounds like to me that you believe you are entitled to the place even though you are both on the lease. I think roommate is just as entitled to stay as you are, but you have conditions for staying that require her to relinquish some of her legal and moral rights. Ask her if she is willing to accommodate you. If not, use your apartment hunting skills to find a new place and then use your decorating skills to make it a home for you and bf.
posted by 724A at 10:46 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
-You are both on the lease.
-You both want to stay.
-She is willing to stay with you or with a new roommate.
-You will not stay if she stays.
-You are only willing to stay if she moves out.
-You have already picked your new roommate.
-You're a good organizer and decorator.
Sounds like to me that you believe you are entitled to the place even though you are both on the lease. I think roommate is just as entitled to stay as you are, but you have conditions for staying that require her to relinquish some of her legal and moral rights. Ask her if she is willing to accommodate you. If not, use your apartment hunting skills to find a new place and then use your decorating skills to make it a home for you and bf.
posted by 724A at 10:46 AM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
Your roommate gets to keep it. Otherwise it's a "Hey, roomie, I found a boyfriend...get out" and that's just a dick move right there.
On the bright side, you're experienced at finding good places to live having found this place. Use that developed skill to find something good for the both of you.
posted by inturnaround at 11:11 AM on September 15, 2014 [10 favorites]
On the bright side, you're experienced at finding good places to live having found this place. Use that developed skill to find something good for the both of you.
posted by inturnaround at 11:11 AM on September 15, 2014 [10 favorites]
Did you allow her on the lease as a favor to her or because you needed her income to be eligible for the apt?
posted by mdn at 11:14 AM on September 15, 2014
posted by mdn at 11:14 AM on September 15, 2014
Short of some sort of egregious terrible behavior, no one gets to unilaterally boot their roommate. Who found or furnished the place has pretty much nothing to do with it except in the "you get to take the stuff you bought" way.
You can leave, or you can negotiate with your roommate whether there's some way she'd be okay with your boyfriend moving in, if there's room for three. But if that is impractical or awkward, your choice is pretty much to move out or to ask if there's any way to come up with a good compromise where roomie moves but you pay her moving expenses, or some such thing, if it's worth that to you.
posted by Stacey at 11:21 AM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
You can leave, or you can negotiate with your roommate whether there's some way she'd be okay with your boyfriend moving in, if there's room for three. But if that is impractical or awkward, your choice is pretty much to move out or to ask if there's any way to come up with a good compromise where roomie moves but you pay her moving expenses, or some such thing, if it's worth that to you.
posted by Stacey at 11:21 AM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
I also tend to think it's better for relationships to have a fresh start where not everything feels like one person's.
Seconding Aranquist's comment, and noting the recommendation seems especially important in this particular case, seeing how easily you've already come to feel as if your shared apartment belongs to you personally.
(Not saying you're a bad person for feeling that way! Just that you might want to note this feeling, and avoid potential damage. Also, naturally, this feeling is not a 100% reliable guide to ethical conduct. But you knew that, or you wouldn't have checked in with the Hive Mind.)
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:07 PM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
Seconding Aranquist's comment, and noting the recommendation seems especially important in this particular case, seeing how easily you've already come to feel as if your shared apartment belongs to you personally.
(Not saying you're a bad person for feeling that way! Just that you might want to note this feeling, and avoid potential damage. Also, naturally, this feeling is not a 100% reliable guide to ethical conduct. But you knew that, or you wouldn't have checked in with the Hive Mind.)
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:07 PM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
seeing how easily you've already come to feel as if your shared apartment belongs to you personally.
This is a good point, and actually brings me to a recommendation I have made repeatedly on AskMe: before you move in with your boyfriend, it is a really good idea to have the conversation about what happens to your apartment if you break up. Make any decisions about who gets the apartment, and how they would pay for it, now, while you like each other and it is only a slightly awkward thing to talk about. If you never have to address it again then great,. If you do, then having already had the conversation will make an obviously pretty terrible time easier in at least one big way.
posted by brainmouse at 12:26 PM on September 15, 2014
This is a good point, and actually brings me to a recommendation I have made repeatedly on AskMe: before you move in with your boyfriend, it is a really good idea to have the conversation about what happens to your apartment if you break up. Make any decisions about who gets the apartment, and how they would pay for it, now, while you like each other and it is only a slightly awkward thing to talk about. If you never have to address it again then great,. If you do, then having already had the conversation will make an obviously pretty terrible time easier in at least one big way.
posted by brainmouse at 12:26 PM on September 15, 2014
Response by poster: seeing how easily you've already come to feel as if your shared apartment belongs to you personally. ...naturally, this feeling is not a 100% reliable guide to ethical conduct. But you knew that, or you wouldn't have checked in with the Hive Mind.
Pretty much. That's why I tried to ask the question as minimally/neutrally as possible.
I also tend to think it's better for relationships to have a fresh start where not everything feels like one person's.
I basically agree, except that I live in a city where good apartments are expensive and very hard to find. This often trumps the "fresh start" consideration. We would move furniture around, get rid of some stuff, use a different bedroom, and so on.
Now for one or two snowflakes:
There's actually the possibility that my roommate would not be able to keep the apartment. He makes less than I do, so any new roommate would have to make a decent amount. Plus he is extra-picky about roommates because he has a dog of whom he is fairly protective. Plus he hasn't really tried to find a roommate, which he will need to do regardless of where he ends up. I don't want to spend the effort and money to find a new apartment only to discover that he'll have to move anyway, and I don't want to wait for him to grow some initiative. I guess it would be easier to feel like the apartment is a space belonging to equals if my roommate were less passive about the whole situation.
posted by the_blizz at 1:28 PM on September 15, 2014
Pretty much. That's why I tried to ask the question as minimally/neutrally as possible.
I also tend to think it's better for relationships to have a fresh start where not everything feels like one person's.
I basically agree, except that I live in a city where good apartments are expensive and very hard to find. This often trumps the "fresh start" consideration. We would move furniture around, get rid of some stuff, use a different bedroom, and so on.
Now for one or two snowflakes:
There's actually the possibility that my roommate would not be able to keep the apartment. He makes less than I do, so any new roommate would have to make a decent amount. Plus he is extra-picky about roommates because he has a dog of whom he is fairly protective. Plus he hasn't really tried to find a roommate, which he will need to do regardless of where he ends up. I don't want to spend the effort and money to find a new apartment only to discover that he'll have to move anyway, and I don't want to wait for him to grow some initiative. I guess it would be easier to feel like the apartment is a space belonging to equals if my roommate were less passive about the whole situation.
posted by the_blizz at 1:28 PM on September 15, 2014
Passive or shell-shocked?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:39 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:39 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Passive. This is the second of two apartments we've moved into together, and he was the same way about both of those previous apartment searches.
posted by the_blizz at 1:45 PM on September 15, 2014
posted by the_blizz at 1:45 PM on September 15, 2014
Is this a roommate who is a friend - as in, you were friends, you decided to find a place together, you looked for it, and had him move in? Or is this a roommate who you just advertised for?
Also, you mention that he makes less than you do. Does he pay less rent than you do?
posted by corb at 2:21 PM on September 15, 2014
Also, you mention that he makes less than you do. Does he pay less rent than you do?
posted by corb at 2:21 PM on September 15, 2014
Have you talked to the roommate about this? I'm not 100% clear.
posted by mskyle at 3:05 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 3:05 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
The roomie gets it. Period. It is neither legal nor ethical to attempt to force a roommate out, assuming that you went in on the apartment as equal partners and both of you are on the lease.
If you're the only one on the lease, things get more complicated since you'll have to do a transfer to get their name on and yours off, but it is still unethical.
posted by zug at 3:09 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you're the only one on the lease, things get more complicated since you'll have to do a transfer to get their name on and yours off, but it is still unethical.
posted by zug at 3:09 PM on September 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Don't start looking for an apartment first - the first thing you should do is talk to your roommate. And you should say something like "Hey roomie, I wanted to let you know that Boyfriend and I are planning to move in together, so our time as roommates is coming to a close pretty soon. Of course, if you want to keep living here, you should totally do that. But if you were thinking about getting your own place, or moving somewhere else, Boyfriend and I would love to live here." Only start looking for apartments when the roommate says "I'm staying here."
And it would be nice to talk to your roommate about this ASAP if you haven't done so already and give him substantial time to either find a new roommate (if he stays) or find a suitable new place to live (if he goes).
If you have already clued in your roommate about this situation, and the roommate isn't taking steps to either find a new place, or find a roommate, then you might want to think about setting a reasonable deadline for you to move out and stop paying rent. That will either light a fire under your roommate or make his lack of initiative not your problem. But there might not be any way to do this and keep the apartment unless your roommate decides quickly to move out.
posted by burden at 3:49 PM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
And it would be nice to talk to your roommate about this ASAP if you haven't done so already and give him substantial time to either find a new roommate (if he stays) or find a suitable new place to live (if he goes).
If you have already clued in your roommate about this situation, and the roommate isn't taking steps to either find a new place, or find a roommate, then you might want to think about setting a reasonable deadline for you to move out and stop paying rent. That will either light a fire under your roommate or make his lack of initiative not your problem. But there might not be any way to do this and keep the apartment unless your roommate decides quickly to move out.
posted by burden at 3:49 PM on September 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you live in a competitive rental market in a relatively cheap apartment, I think there is a very good chance that your roommate will be able to find someone to cover your share of the rent without much more than a craigslist ad.
He may be picky about roommates, but if he's as passive as you make him sound, when push comes to shove, the path of least resistance by far is having a less than ideal roommate rather than searching for an apartment and moving.
I think you're within your rights to be blunt with him and say that in your perfect world you would keep the apartment, but that you understand if he wants to keep it and you'll respect that and move. However, you're asking that he really consider whether he both can and wants to keep it given the financial and other realities because if he's just going to end up leaving you will be wasting tons of time and money when you could have just stayed put.
Also, I would offer to pay his moving expenses if he were to leave. Either way you will be paying for movers, if you can make it easier for him to leave that might tip the balance in your favor. The last thing you want is him staying for no other reason than he doesn't have enough cash on hand for movers and a deposit.
posted by whoaali at 4:40 PM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
He may be picky about roommates, but if he's as passive as you make him sound, when push comes to shove, the path of least resistance by far is having a less than ideal roommate rather than searching for an apartment and moving.
I think you're within your rights to be blunt with him and say that in your perfect world you would keep the apartment, but that you understand if he wants to keep it and you'll respect that and move. However, you're asking that he really consider whether he both can and wants to keep it given the financial and other realities because if he's just going to end up leaving you will be wasting tons of time and money when you could have just stayed put.
Also, I would offer to pay his moving expenses if he were to leave. Either way you will be paying for movers, if you can make it easier for him to leave that might tip the balance in your favor. The last thing you want is him staying for no other reason than he doesn't have enough cash on hand for movers and a deposit.
posted by whoaali at 4:40 PM on September 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Duh, of course I've already discussed all this with my roommate. He's known for at least a month.
Does he pay less rent than you do?
Yes, I pay more and have some extra space.
Also, I would offer to pay his moving expenses if he were to leave.
Have already done this.
If you live in a competitive rental market in a relatively cheap apartment, I think there is a very good chance that your roommate will be able to find someone to cover your share of the rent without much more than a craigslist ad.
Oh, no question he'd be able to find someone off Craigslist, but he doesn't want to. "Picky" may be the wrong word about how he feels about potential roommates. "Afraid" is closer. Before we became roommates, he was living with his parents.
posted by the_blizz at 7:25 AM on September 16, 2014
Does he pay less rent than you do?
Yes, I pay more and have some extra space.
Also, I would offer to pay his moving expenses if he were to leave.
Have already done this.
If you live in a competitive rental market in a relatively cheap apartment, I think there is a very good chance that your roommate will be able to find someone to cover your share of the rent without much more than a craigslist ad.
Oh, no question he'd be able to find someone off Craigslist, but he doesn't want to. "Picky" may be the wrong word about how he feels about potential roommates. "Afraid" is closer. Before we became roommates, he was living with his parents.
posted by the_blizz at 7:25 AM on September 16, 2014
It sounds like the real issue is not so much getting roommate to give up the apartment, but rather, getting him to admit to it in a timely manner. He will never find a roommate to suit his needs and wants. If I were you, I would search for a new place but before I sign a new lease, explain in no uncertain terms to roommate that you really want to live there with bf and if he is not going to stay, to let you know now before you sign lease. It would really disappoint and hurt you to sign a lease on a new apartment only to find out he moved out. Maybe offer to help him find a new place and/or a new roommate in the new place.
posted by 724A at 8:00 AM on September 16, 2014
posted by 724A at 8:00 AM on September 16, 2014
If you pay more than him, and have more of the space, then I would agree it is your apartment and you should be the one to stay. However, that is, as noted above, easier said than done, because you can't force him to leave.
posted by corb at 10:13 AM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 10:13 AM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you're both on the lease, you have no place kicking your roommate out. You can leave and take your furniture but just because you found and furnished the apartment doesn't make it any more yours, at least legally. I'm not sure why you pay more rent, but if you're equals on the lease then the apt is equally his. Even if he can't afford it on his own. Sorry.
posted by atinna at 6:15 PM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by atinna at 6:15 PM on September 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Oh, no question he'd be able to find someone off Craigslist, but he doesn't want to. "Picky" may be the wrong word about how he feels about potential roommates. "Afraid" is closer. Before we became roommates, he was living with his parents.
I have known people like this and let me relate a scenario that may be your future:
You tell your roommate that you want to move in with your boyfriend and that either you or him need to move out. He decides that he will move out because it makes sense financially or he believes he's doing you a solid or whatever. You pick a day (maybe the end of the lease?) in a couple of months or so for him to move out and your boyfriend to move in.
He puts absolutely zero effort into finding somewhere to live and you both know it. You offer to help but he declines, out of pride or not wanting to bother you. By the last few week your are on edge every day and feeling super resentful because you're coming to terms with the fact that he has not found a place to live.
The day for him to move out comes around and there's a big fight and now you, because you cannot literally kick him out, you, your roommate, and your boyfriend all share an apartment until he moves out (not likely) or you do and leave him to find a roommate in an apartment he can't afford. Needless to say, everyone is unhappy and this damages your relationship with your friend and possibly your boyfriend.
I'm not saying that's going to happen but I've seen scenarios like what I just described more than once. Save yourself a headache, heartache and possibly a friendship and take the initiative and move out. At best you're doing your friend a favor by getting his ass in gear with an enforced deadline, and at worst you're doing a totally normal, acceptable roommate thing.
posted by griphus at 6:37 PM on September 16, 2014
I have known people like this and let me relate a scenario that may be your future:
You tell your roommate that you want to move in with your boyfriend and that either you or him need to move out. He decides that he will move out because it makes sense financially or he believes he's doing you a solid or whatever. You pick a day (maybe the end of the lease?) in a couple of months or so for him to move out and your boyfriend to move in.
He puts absolutely zero effort into finding somewhere to live and you both know it. You offer to help but he declines, out of pride or not wanting to bother you. By the last few week your are on edge every day and feeling super resentful because you're coming to terms with the fact that he has not found a place to live.
The day for him to move out comes around and there's a big fight and now you, because you cannot literally kick him out, you, your roommate, and your boyfriend all share an apartment until he moves out (not likely) or you do and leave him to find a roommate in an apartment he can't afford. Needless to say, everyone is unhappy and this damages your relationship with your friend and possibly your boyfriend.
I'm not saying that's going to happen but I've seen scenarios like what I just described more than once. Save yourself a headache, heartache and possibly a friendship and take the initiative and move out. At best you're doing your friend a favor by getting his ass in gear with an enforced deadline, and at worst you're doing a totally normal, acceptable roommate thing.
posted by griphus at 6:37 PM on September 16, 2014
Oh, no question he'd be able to find someone off Craigslist, but he doesn't want to. "Picky" may be the wrong word about how he feels about potential roommates. "Afraid" is closer. Before we became roommates, he was living with his parents.
But he does trust YOU. Maybe you can exploit that trust. In a mutually beneficial, mutually exploitative way. Can you FIND him a new roommate and/or a new apartment? It's a lot of work for you, obviously. But it might be the easiest way out.
You know him best -- maybe start by not even asking him, but just doing a bit of the preliminary searching/vetting? Don't hide it from him, but do mention it to him, and not always in a perky isn't-this-great sort of way. E.g.:
"OMG it really is hard to find a dog friendly apartment in this city, isn't it, there's nothing on this whole website that's dog-friendly and not ridiculously expensive."
and then the next evening:
"Ooh, I found a dog-friendly place that looks decent. It doesn't say much about the roommate, though. Lemme phone this guy and see what he's like to talk to."
and then later:
"This guy actually sounds pretty cool. He works as a veterinarian's assistant, and volunteers at a rescue shelter. His apartment's right near your work, and he's free Tuesday evening -- shall we swing by?"
Like I said, this is obviously a huge amount of work for you. The only way it's worth it (apart from sheer charity) is if (a) griphus's scenario has you properly terrified, and (b) you love your current apartment above and beyond the amount of time it would take to find & furnish a new one.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:00 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
But he does trust YOU. Maybe you can exploit that trust. In a mutually beneficial, mutually exploitative way. Can you FIND him a new roommate and/or a new apartment? It's a lot of work for you, obviously. But it might be the easiest way out.
You know him best -- maybe start by not even asking him, but just doing a bit of the preliminary searching/vetting? Don't hide it from him, but do mention it to him, and not always in a perky isn't-this-great sort of way. E.g.:
"OMG it really is hard to find a dog friendly apartment in this city, isn't it, there's nothing on this whole website that's dog-friendly and not ridiculously expensive."
and then the next evening:
"Ooh, I found a dog-friendly place that looks decent. It doesn't say much about the roommate, though. Lemme phone this guy and see what he's like to talk to."
and then later:
"This guy actually sounds pretty cool. He works as a veterinarian's assistant, and volunteers at a rescue shelter. His apartment's right near your work, and he's free Tuesday evening -- shall we swing by?"
Like I said, this is obviously a huge amount of work for you. The only way it's worth it (apart from sheer charity) is if (a) griphus's scenario has you properly terrified, and (b) you love your current apartment above and beyond the amount of time it would take to find & furnish a new one.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:00 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
« Older Son's childcare worker suddenly fired - what to... | Harvesting (or scraping) a few sites with minimum... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:28 AM on September 15, 2014 [31 favorites]