How many fond fools serve mad jealousy? At least one that I know of...
November 4, 2013 9:02 AM Subscribe
My amazing man-friend is doing nothing wrong...so why am I so damned insecure? Help me slay my terrible and persistent case of green-eyed monsteritis!
My partner and I have been dating for almost 6 months. Things are as close to perfect as it is possible for them to be while still remaining on this side of dream-land. We get along like clockwork, communicate well, are ridiculously and madly in love, and are busy planning our silly/happy/delightful/exquisite future together.....
BUT.
I cannot seem to shake my insecurities about him spending time with his ex. They are in the process of finalizing their divorce, and meet about 2 or 3 times a month (sometimes over dinner, sometimes after a run together) to discuss the details of the financial settlement. These are discussions that need to happen (I know this), and things will be better for everyone involved if they continue to happen in a sociable/amicable way (I know this, too)...but every time he tells me that they will be meeting (and he makes no attempt to hide or disguise these plans), I cannot suppress a very ugly and uncomfortable wave of irrational jealousy. The thought of him spending time with her drives me BONKERS, for no good reason.
I recognize that this problem is MINE, that it stems from my own nasty insecurity, and that he is doing nothing wrong. I know that he still cares about his ex (they were married for 6 years, and remain on good terms despite the separation), and I would never, ever ask him to cut her out of his life simply because I am immature and can't get over my irrational, unfounded, and, frankly, incredibly unfair petty jealousies. He senses that these meetings make me uncomfortable, and has asked me about it. I've responded by saying that I do feel a little jealous, but that it is my own issue and not something he should feel responsible for.
I don't want this to be an issue anymore, or (god forbid) grow into something even uglier.
What can I do to get over these nasty feelings? How can I help myself to accept the fact (which my brain understands but my emotional self does not) that my partner wants to remain friends with his ex, and that this fact does not diminish (or really have anything to do with) his feelings for me?
I'm 29 years old, MeFites....help me stop acting like I'm 12!
My partner and I have been dating for almost 6 months. Things are as close to perfect as it is possible for them to be while still remaining on this side of dream-land. We get along like clockwork, communicate well, are ridiculously and madly in love, and are busy planning our silly/happy/delightful/exquisite future together.....
BUT.
I cannot seem to shake my insecurities about him spending time with his ex. They are in the process of finalizing their divorce, and meet about 2 or 3 times a month (sometimes over dinner, sometimes after a run together) to discuss the details of the financial settlement. These are discussions that need to happen (I know this), and things will be better for everyone involved if they continue to happen in a sociable/amicable way (I know this, too)...but every time he tells me that they will be meeting (and he makes no attempt to hide or disguise these plans), I cannot suppress a very ugly and uncomfortable wave of irrational jealousy. The thought of him spending time with her drives me BONKERS, for no good reason.
I recognize that this problem is MINE, that it stems from my own nasty insecurity, and that he is doing nothing wrong. I know that he still cares about his ex (they were married for 6 years, and remain on good terms despite the separation), and I would never, ever ask him to cut her out of his life simply because I am immature and can't get over my irrational, unfounded, and, frankly, incredibly unfair petty jealousies. He senses that these meetings make me uncomfortable, and has asked me about it. I've responded by saying that I do feel a little jealous, but that it is my own issue and not something he should feel responsible for.
I don't want this to be an issue anymore, or (god forbid) grow into something even uglier.
What can I do to get over these nasty feelings? How can I help myself to accept the fact (which my brain understands but my emotional self does not) that my partner wants to remain friends with his ex, and that this fact does not diminish (or really have anything to do with) his feelings for me?
I'm 29 years old, MeFites....help me stop acting like I'm 12!
Stop framing this as "jealousy" for starters.
ANYONE would feel uncomfortable with their still-married boyfriend going out to dinner or going running with their "ex."
Financial arrangements are usually discussed in meetings with lawyers or mediators.
This married couple are still dating each other.
He's still married, he probably should not have started dating you.
In any event, you should stop dating him because this new relationship only looks promising. In truth, there's weirdo shit between him and his wife they need to work out with either a marriage counselor or a lawyer.
Extricate yourself from between this married couple. Heed your gut, it's trying to protect you from getting hurt.
posted by jbenben at 9:15 AM on November 4, 2013 [33 favorites]
ANYONE would feel uncomfortable with their still-married boyfriend going out to dinner or going running with their "ex."
Financial arrangements are usually discussed in meetings with lawyers or mediators.
This married couple are still dating each other.
He's still married, he probably should not have started dating you.
In any event, you should stop dating him because this new relationship only looks promising. In truth, there's weirdo shit between him and his wife they need to work out with either a marriage counselor or a lawyer.
Extricate yourself from between this married couple. Heed your gut, it's trying to protect you from getting hurt.
posted by jbenben at 9:15 AM on November 4, 2013 [33 favorites]
amicable divorce usually is done through a mediator. sounds to me like they are still dating, and either one of them or both of them sees something happening in the future... or just cannot move on from the intimacy they had in their marriage before, perhaps.
your instincts are telling you what's going on here and that's why you feel really uncomfortable and anxious about it. you're not "acting like you're 12," but rather your instincts are trying to get your attenion and protect you. he probably feels like he's doing nothing wrong because he isn't lying to you about the plans they make with one another. doesn't mean it isn't hurtful or problematic though. have a talk with him about it and tell him you want him to do further divorce-discussing through a mediator or attorney/representative, not after dates with the exwife.
posted by zdravo at 9:23 AM on November 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
your instincts are telling you what's going on here and that's why you feel really uncomfortable and anxious about it. you're not "acting like you're 12," but rather your instincts are trying to get your attenion and protect you. he probably feels like he's doing nothing wrong because he isn't lying to you about the plans they make with one another. doesn't mean it isn't hurtful or problematic though. have a talk with him about it and tell him you want him to do further divorce-discussing through a mediator or attorney/representative, not after dates with the exwife.
posted by zdravo at 9:23 AM on November 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling uncomfortable because it sounds like he's in the process of doing fun things with her as they work out the process of breaking up. Of course it's off-putting. If they were meeting at the attorney's office I doubt you'd feel uncomfortable. But they're going out on dates and you've been dating for six months as he hammers out his divorce and typically, these relationships do not end well for people in your position. My guess is that every little inner instinct that you have is screaming out, "RUN!"
I would respect that instinct and run from this guy. Let him get his divorce. Move on.
As a divorcee, I can tell you that in a million years, no matter how friendly we were, I would NOT have gotten together with my ex over dinner or a run to talk about the divorce. When the marriage was over, it was over. We met in lawyer's office. We did not socialize.
If you want to discuss this with him, do that. But I can't imagine that you're going to get a straight story from this guy. He's dating (and planning a future with??!) you, he's also dating his wife (because she's NOT his ex yet).
None of this bodes well.
posted by kinetic at 9:23 AM on November 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
I would respect that instinct and run from this guy. Let him get his divorce. Move on.
As a divorcee, I can tell you that in a million years, no matter how friendly we were, I would NOT have gotten together with my ex over dinner or a run to talk about the divorce. When the marriage was over, it was over. We met in lawyer's office. We did not socialize.
If you want to discuss this with him, do that. But I can't imagine that you're going to get a straight story from this guy. He's dating (and planning a future with??!) you, he's also dating his wife (because she's NOT his ex yet).
None of this bodes well.
posted by kinetic at 9:23 AM on November 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
Nthing the others--even in low-drama divorces I have never heard of doing paperwork after a run together or dinner. And please stop beating yourself up. I know it can be hard to come to Ask MeFi because the answers tend to be on the "you're jealous for no reason and being jealous is bad" end of things, but seriously--warning bells are ringing for a reason and you should trust yourself!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 9:32 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 9:32 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
OK, well...I did some divorce paperwork and so on at restaurants (we did not have lawyers or mediators, we represented ourselves). Both of us preferred neutral public ground to visiting each others' new homes. There was absolutely no chance whatsoever of us getting back together, and these were not "dates," even though they involved a man and a woman sitting amicably across a table in a nice pub or whatever.
That said, these things also didn't happen multiple times per month for half a year, they happened like 3 times total.
In your case, you've been dating 6 months, this guy isn't even divorced, and you're (both? or just you?) PLANNING A FUTURE TOGETHER already? Your alarm bells should be ringing so hard that they break.
If I had to speculate, your fella is the type of person who cannot handle any slight iota of pain or discomfort. He wants an exciting new girlfriend and his comfortable old wife, and he can't technically have both, so instead he will pretend-divorce his wife (without exposing himself to any of the actual pain of a separation) while pretend-dating you. I think this bothers you because you are fundamentally aware that it is bullshit. Tell this dude you're no longer comfortable dating him until he is officially divorced. 50 bucks says you never hear from him again and he also never gets officially divorced.
posted by like_a_friend at 9:40 AM on November 4, 2013 [15 favorites]
That said, these things also didn't happen multiple times per month for half a year, they happened like 3 times total.
In your case, you've been dating 6 months, this guy isn't even divorced, and you're (both? or just you?) PLANNING A FUTURE TOGETHER already? Your alarm bells should be ringing so hard that they break.
If I had to speculate, your fella is the type of person who cannot handle any slight iota of pain or discomfort. He wants an exciting new girlfriend and his comfortable old wife, and he can't technically have both, so instead he will pretend-divorce his wife (without exposing himself to any of the actual pain of a separation) while pretend-dating you. I think this bothers you because you are fundamentally aware that it is bullshit. Tell this dude you're no longer comfortable dating him until he is officially divorced. 50 bucks says you never hear from him again and he also never gets officially divorced.
posted by like_a_friend at 9:40 AM on November 4, 2013 [15 favorites]
Unless one of them is scheduling these runs as a mistaken kindness toward the one who is being "dumped, " at best they are not doing divorce correctly. Cause for concern.
If nothing else, stop thinking in terms of planning a future until his divorce is and has been final for months.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:44 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
If nothing else, stop thinking in terms of planning a future until his divorce is and has been final for months.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:44 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine who got divorced did this. Against the advice of everyone, he would not use a mediator or a lawyer. It was because he was afraid of his wife blowing her lid. His wife wanted it to be over dinners and such, because she did have an agenda of trying to get back together. He got completely screwed on the divorce proceedings, but now he's divorced and not hanging with his ex anymore and is happily dating someone. So n-thing the people above that it may turn out OK, but it's probably a dysfunctional situation.
posted by melissam at 9:45 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by melissam at 9:45 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeah, this sounds like he's 'covering his bases' so that he'll have a partner no matter what.
Run.
posted by PlantGoddess at 9:50 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Run.
posted by PlantGoddess at 9:50 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeah, get out get out get out! There are not proper boundaries here.
I speak from experience here - NEVER GET involved with a couple who are still working their stuff out in real time. There's definite lingering happening between them, and you would be best served by not being around them right now.
Take care of yourself, tell your boyfriend you're going to chill until he gets his life sorted out, and when he's free and clear of her entirely, decide then if he's really all that great. WAY too much psychological baggage around this for you to feel comfortable (and rightly so!)
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 9:51 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
I speak from experience here - NEVER GET involved with a couple who are still working their stuff out in real time. There's definite lingering happening between them, and you would be best served by not being around them right now.
Take care of yourself, tell your boyfriend you're going to chill until he gets his life sorted out, and when he's free and clear of her entirely, decide then if he's really all that great. WAY too much psychological baggage around this for you to feel comfortable (and rightly so!)
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 9:51 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
but every time he tells me that they will be meeting (and he makes no attempt to hide or disguise these plans), I cannot suppress a very ugly and uncomfortable wave of irrational jealousy.
these feelings are a feature, not a bug. We evolved to be like this and all the ethics of the world are a thin veneer over the animal brain. So don't suppress them. Acknowledge them and the pain that goes along with it--but let that feeling pass. Then it will come up again, in 30 seconds, in 20 minutes whatever. Then let it pass again. Eventually, its frequency will diminish.
If there is something to worry about, these emotions aren't the main driver of figuring out what to do.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:56 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
these feelings are a feature, not a bug. We evolved to be like this and all the ethics of the world are a thin veneer over the animal brain. So don't suppress them. Acknowledge them and the pain that goes along with it--but let that feeling pass. Then it will come up again, in 30 seconds, in 20 minutes whatever. Then let it pass again. Eventually, its frequency will diminish.
If there is something to worry about, these emotions aren't the main driver of figuring out what to do.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:56 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Listen, I'm someone who is not fully divorced, yet I am in a happy, fulfilling, forward-looking new relationship and have been for quite some time. So I get that the paperwork part of divorces can take time - to negotiate terms, divvy up assets, etc. And in my case: lots of procrastinating because it was difficult or painful.
I say all this because I think some well-meaning folks on AskMe do go overboard or are a little too absolutist about "don't ever date anyone whose divorce isn't final yet and maybe not for months/years after". I'm not necessarily saying you should dump this guy.
However, I too would be wary of someone who needs to meet with his ex so often, and in such emotionally intimate settings/activities. Sure, meet in a public place because it's less painful/stressful than either of your houses. But running together? And multiple times a month? I think it's okay to be concerned about this - I would be too - and it's okay to talk to him about it.
If you really are that serious about each other, tell him that the way and frequency with which he is meeting up with his ex is bugging you. Tell him that you're willing to work on the part that may be irrational jealousy, but that some of it is a perfectly reasonable concern about exactly what kind of progress they are making towards the divorce and what type of relationship they are maintaining now. Ask him if he plans to continue meeting up with her regularly for dinner or running after the divorce is final? For how long? And ask yourself if you're okay with that.
Do they own a house together? Other major assets? Have kids? Do they need to structure some sort of alimony? Because if not, the actual negotiations themselves shouldn't take that long in my experience. Most of mine was handled via email (which is REALLY helpful for having things in writing) plus one meeting with a lawyer friend who was helping us draw up the documents and one meeting to sign them once they were finished.
TL;DR: I just hit the one year anniversary for dating my boyfriend and my divorce becomes final tomorrow, so this is not about a knee-jerk RUN because he's still legally married. Timelines are sometimes messy and progress slow. But you should have some concerns about the way he's handling the divorce process that are worth discussing with him in a framework that is not completely about you being irrationally jealous. Your brain is sensing some yellow flags and it's worth working them out if you want this relationship to be successful.
posted by misskaz at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
I say all this because I think some well-meaning folks on AskMe do go overboard or are a little too absolutist about "don't ever date anyone whose divorce isn't final yet and maybe not for months/years after". I'm not necessarily saying you should dump this guy.
However, I too would be wary of someone who needs to meet with his ex so often, and in such emotionally intimate settings/activities. Sure, meet in a public place because it's less painful/stressful than either of your houses. But running together? And multiple times a month? I think it's okay to be concerned about this - I would be too - and it's okay to talk to him about it.
If you really are that serious about each other, tell him that the way and frequency with which he is meeting up with his ex is bugging you. Tell him that you're willing to work on the part that may be irrational jealousy, but that some of it is a perfectly reasonable concern about exactly what kind of progress they are making towards the divorce and what type of relationship they are maintaining now. Ask him if he plans to continue meeting up with her regularly for dinner or running after the divorce is final? For how long? And ask yourself if you're okay with that.
Do they own a house together? Other major assets? Have kids? Do they need to structure some sort of alimony? Because if not, the actual negotiations themselves shouldn't take that long in my experience. Most of mine was handled via email (which is REALLY helpful for having things in writing) plus one meeting with a lawyer friend who was helping us draw up the documents and one meeting to sign them once they were finished.
TL;DR: I just hit the one year anniversary for dating my boyfriend and my divorce becomes final tomorrow, so this is not about a knee-jerk RUN because he's still legally married. Timelines are sometimes messy and progress slow. But you should have some concerns about the way he's handling the divorce process that are worth discussing with him in a framework that is not completely about you being irrationally jealous. Your brain is sensing some yellow flags and it's worth working them out if you want this relationship to be successful.
posted by misskaz at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
I'm of the mind that being friends with ex's is perfectly fine, as long as you are ACTUALLY friends. And friends can hang out with your new partner, you can get together with a friend of your boyfriend and have dinner right? Would you ever consider hanging out with his not yet ex-wife?
My first thought was that you could accompany them on a run or dinner, but honestly I think that would be the most awkward evening of all three of your lives and I don't see anything positive coming out of it.
So my second thought it that I've never had a relationship with someone that had those kind of regular emotional minefields, and that if I did I would also be having some bad emotions bubbling up. Your reaction is completely normal, this situation is very weird and probably unhealthy. He's still tangled up in this past relationship, and you'll continue to be dealing with the side effects until he isn't.
(And I've never heard of an amicable divorce that had to involve face-to-face weekly meetings for MONTHS to sort out paperwork, unless there are children involved. It's called email.)
posted by Dynex at 10:59 AM on November 4, 2013
My first thought was that you could accompany them on a run or dinner, but honestly I think that would be the most awkward evening of all three of your lives and I don't see anything positive coming out of it.
So my second thought it that I've never had a relationship with someone that had those kind of regular emotional minefields, and that if I did I would also be having some bad emotions bubbling up. Your reaction is completely normal, this situation is very weird and probably unhealthy. He's still tangled up in this past relationship, and you'll continue to be dealing with the side effects until he isn't.
(And I've never heard of an amicable divorce that had to involve face-to-face weekly meetings for MONTHS to sort out paperwork, unless there are children involved. It's called email.)
posted by Dynex at 10:59 AM on November 4, 2013
I think the harsh and over-the-top way you describe your feelings ( irrational, unfounded, and, frankly, incredibly unfair petty jealousies) is pretty telling. Like you so so desperately want this relationship to work and be like a fairy tale that you are ruthlessly trying to label and stamp out any negative feelings or concerns you have.
I don't know what's really going on with your fellow and his ex, no one here does. But I hope all the other replies have at least given you the perspective that the way he and his ex are behaving is ODD. And that it would bother most people.
So instead of telling yourself how terrible you are, and that your feelings are "nasty"and need to be obliterated, I think you need to have a talk with your boyfriend and a) figure out why he needs to meet 2-3 times a month for 6 months to untangle a relatively short marriage with no kids involved and b) express that these meetings make you feel uncomfortable.
posted by aviatrix at 11:11 AM on November 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
I don't know what's really going on with your fellow and his ex, no one here does. But I hope all the other replies have at least given you the perspective that the way he and his ex are behaving is ODD. And that it would bother most people.
So instead of telling yourself how terrible you are, and that your feelings are "nasty"and need to be obliterated, I think you need to have a talk with your boyfriend and a) figure out why he needs to meet 2-3 times a month for 6 months to untangle a relatively short marriage with no kids involved and b) express that these meetings make you feel uncomfortable.
posted by aviatrix at 11:11 AM on November 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
at the beginning of relationships there's a tendency to be like "the coolest partner ever" and it actually is really hard and awful.
I mean, it's super cool to be like "there's no problem with you going on de-facto dates while you hammer out the details of your divorce, babe, I trust you!"
but you're actually not feeling that. I think if you're serious about this guy (and as someone who met their super amazing forever boyfriend while he was not-yet-divorced, I'm not in the "run away" camp) then you should stop being cool and just tell him that the dating part of this divorce needs to stop. It's making you super uncomfortable.
it seems like they should have everything worked out by now, since divorce proceedings don't actually take THAT long, most people who have an amicable divorce need to meet a couple times, max. you should be honest that you're not okay with their continuing relationship, you respect that they want to remain friends but if he wants to be with you, they need to take the kind of break that normal broken up couples take. maybe in a year they can have a coffee once every six months and occasionally exchange 3 texts. that's normal ex-friendship.
this seems clingy.
posted by euphoria066 at 11:13 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I mean, it's super cool to be like "there's no problem with you going on de-facto dates while you hammer out the details of your divorce, babe, I trust you!"
but you're actually not feeling that. I think if you're serious about this guy (and as someone who met their super amazing forever boyfriend while he was not-yet-divorced, I'm not in the "run away" camp) then you should stop being cool and just tell him that the dating part of this divorce needs to stop. It's making you super uncomfortable.
it seems like they should have everything worked out by now, since divorce proceedings don't actually take THAT long, most people who have an amicable divorce need to meet a couple times, max. you should be honest that you're not okay with their continuing relationship, you respect that they want to remain friends but if he wants to be with you, they need to take the kind of break that normal broken up couples take. maybe in a year they can have a coffee once every six months and occasionally exchange 3 texts. that's normal ex-friendship.
this seems clingy.
posted by euphoria066 at 11:13 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: These answers are...not relevant. You are in fact jealous and it is bothering you. Whether or not a bunch of strangers think this is normal is not your issue, because you don't find it offensive and your boyfriend says it's to sort out business between them and you trust him. People have different situations in breakups, even for marriages, and theirs seems to be working--please trust your relationship more than what this lot gives you credit for.
Anyway--focus on having fun with this guy rather than dwelling on the past. But if you can't distract yourself and it's really bothering you go ahead and let him know rather than dwelling on it. Say something frank to him like, "You're meeting X again this week? Man I know it shouldn't bother me but it does. Can we have like a really awesome [dinner][or whatever] tomorrow after your meeting? It would make me feel a lot better." Just because it's irrational doesn't mean you aren't feeling it. And he surely has to be sympathetic to how tough it is that he's still married and dating someone seriously right? He should be able to calmly discuss your insecurities without getting defensive--it's a perfectly reasonable thing to be unreasonable about if you know what I mean! He might even want to offer to meet with her less because he knows its making you uncomfortable. But that's up for discussion between y'all.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:29 PM on November 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Anyway--focus on having fun with this guy rather than dwelling on the past. But if you can't distract yourself and it's really bothering you go ahead and let him know rather than dwelling on it. Say something frank to him like, "You're meeting X again this week? Man I know it shouldn't bother me but it does. Can we have like a really awesome [dinner][or whatever] tomorrow after your meeting? It would make me feel a lot better." Just because it's irrational doesn't mean you aren't feeling it. And he surely has to be sympathetic to how tough it is that he's still married and dating someone seriously right? He should be able to calmly discuss your insecurities without getting defensive--it's a perfectly reasonable thing to be unreasonable about if you know what I mean! He might even want to offer to meet with her less because he knows its making you uncomfortable. But that's up for discussion between y'all.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:29 PM on November 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
On the one hand, I disagree that amicable divorces can't be done this way. The details of my divorce were done just by my ex-wife and I in a similar way (although it was more like just a couple times, rather than multiple times a month for months, but I'm not sure thats a huge deal). I had a lawyer draw up the resulting details, she didn't even bother to get a lawyer and just signed. Years later, I think we both still feel we got a fair deal (AFAIK).
The bigger issue is that... well, honestly no matter how "over it" he feels he is, he probably isn't. I mean, when I first started dating in that time period I had way more confidence in that than I should have, looking back. Especially things like staying friends / remaining in contact -- it does happen, but like many breakups in practice I think its something you often tell yourself / want to be true to lessen the sharp pain of ending a relationship, and after some time has passed you don't value that the same way.
So I don't think he's necessarily trying to cheat or stay in a "relationship" with her in the conventional sense, but it's very likely he has a way to go before his feelings about the marriage and divorce stabilize, and in the meantime it's going to be hard for him to focus on someone new while also dealing with that... I think.
Like all internet advice, take this as one data point --- some of it would depend on their reasons for divorce, process prior to this, etc. And I've heard a few happy stories of relationships that began in this time period, but I do think it is far from the norm.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:57 PM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
The bigger issue is that... well, honestly no matter how "over it" he feels he is, he probably isn't. I mean, when I first started dating in that time period I had way more confidence in that than I should have, looking back. Especially things like staying friends / remaining in contact -- it does happen, but like many breakups in practice I think its something you often tell yourself / want to be true to lessen the sharp pain of ending a relationship, and after some time has passed you don't value that the same way.
So I don't think he's necessarily trying to cheat or stay in a "relationship" with her in the conventional sense, but it's very likely he has a way to go before his feelings about the marriage and divorce stabilize, and in the meantime it's going to be hard for him to focus on someone new while also dealing with that... I think.
Like all internet advice, take this as one data point --- some of it would depend on their reasons for divorce, process prior to this, etc. And I've heard a few happy stories of relationships that began in this time period, but I do think it is far from the norm.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:57 PM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
My boyfriend and I began dating when he was still married[1]. We were together for almost a year before his divorce was final. We've now been together happily for nearly five years! It is possible to make relationships that begin this way work.
During the eleven months that we were together while he was still in the process of divorcing, he and his soon-to-be-ex-wife met in person exactly once. It had nothing to do with the divorce process or agreement, all of which was done through the mediator--she came to his apartment for an hour to visit their cats, who continued to live with him. Despite trusting him and believing that the visit was entirely appropriate, I still felt all of the things that you feel when your boyfriend spends time with his wife. I felt anxious and scared and insecure, and also like you, ashamed to feel that way.
Like you, I told him how I felt, but here's where we differ--instead of declining to involve him in my feelings, I asked for his help. We were a team, after all, in a committed and loving relationship, and as a good boyfriend and good person, he wanted me to feel secure and happy. So he took steps to assure me that I was his priority. He texted me before she arrived to tell me he loved me, and he invited me over when she left to cook me dinner. He was respectful of my feelings and kind to me when I felt vulnerable.
You say that your feelings are not your boyfriend's responsibility, and while that might be true about some things, when your feelings arise directly in response to him and his behavior it is absolutely his responsibility to understand his role in those feelings and to do what he can to help you with them.
You are not being "nasty," "petty," or "unfair" in any way. As his current partner, it is OK to expect that the you come first, and it's OK to expect that his behavior reflects that. The specifics of how that plays out vis-a-vis his spending time with his wife are for the two of you to decide together.
[1] This is not normally something I would be comfortable with, but he and I had known each other for more than a decade as friendly acquaintances, had many trusted mutual friends who encouraged our unexpected connection, and the specifics of the situation were such that I made an exception to my usual don't-date-married-guys rule.
posted by jesourie at 1:20 PM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
During the eleven months that we were together while he was still in the process of divorcing, he and his soon-to-be-ex-wife met in person exactly once. It had nothing to do with the divorce process or agreement, all of which was done through the mediator--she came to his apartment for an hour to visit their cats, who continued to live with him. Despite trusting him and believing that the visit was entirely appropriate, I still felt all of the things that you feel when your boyfriend spends time with his wife. I felt anxious and scared and insecure, and also like you, ashamed to feel that way.
Like you, I told him how I felt, but here's where we differ--instead of declining to involve him in my feelings, I asked for his help. We were a team, after all, in a committed and loving relationship, and as a good boyfriend and good person, he wanted me to feel secure and happy. So he took steps to assure me that I was his priority. He texted me before she arrived to tell me he loved me, and he invited me over when she left to cook me dinner. He was respectful of my feelings and kind to me when I felt vulnerable.
You say that your feelings are not your boyfriend's responsibility, and while that might be true about some things, when your feelings arise directly in response to him and his behavior it is absolutely his responsibility to understand his role in those feelings and to do what he can to help you with them.
You are not being "nasty," "petty," or "unfair" in any way. As his current partner, it is OK to expect that the you come first, and it's OK to expect that his behavior reflects that. The specifics of how that plays out vis-a-vis his spending time with his wife are for the two of you to decide together.
[1] This is not normally something I would be comfortable with, but he and I had known each other for more than a decade as friendly acquaintances, had many trusted mutual friends who encouraged our unexpected connection, and the specifics of the situation were such that I made an exception to my usual don't-date-married-guys rule.
posted by jesourie at 1:20 PM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: IMO --you're asking the wrong question to the wrong people.
You should be asking your boyfriend whether he plans to continue this level of contact with his ex, how much longer this process is going to take, and what he plans to do to make you feel comfortable with it in the interim.
Just because he isn't lying to you about it doesn't mean that you're not allowed to feel some kind of way about it. If he knows it makes you uncomfortable and isn't willing to flex for you (and figure out what kind of flex you need, first, OP) you may be in the wrong relationship.
I'm not saying DTMFA, I'm saying you need to talk to your boyfriend about this instead of trying to convince yourself to unfeel what you already feel. All feelings don't need to be 100% rational to be valid.
posted by sm1tten at 6:59 PM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
You should be asking your boyfriend whether he plans to continue this level of contact with his ex, how much longer this process is going to take, and what he plans to do to make you feel comfortable with it in the interim.
Just because he isn't lying to you about it doesn't mean that you're not allowed to feel some kind of way about it. If he knows it makes you uncomfortable and isn't willing to flex for you (and figure out what kind of flex you need, first, OP) you may be in the wrong relationship.
I'm not saying DTMFA, I'm saying you need to talk to your boyfriend about this instead of trying to convince yourself to unfeel what you already feel. All feelings don't need to be 100% rational to be valid.
posted by sm1tten at 6:59 PM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I just want to chime in and tell you why I would find this all horribly upsetting, as you do.
The idea of my boyfriend getting hot and sweaty with his wife would piss.me.off. Yes, hot and sweaty with sex is worse... but the run would be bad enough. There is no reason for it. I would think that they had a level of intimacy that I just wouldn't be comfortable with in a relationship. My head would be filled with horrible scenarios where I would picture their blood pumping through their veins, their cheeks flushed, wifey wearing sexy workout gear- and one of them saying something like: man, I am going to really miss this stuff with you.... and one thing leading to another. And a "run" is the perfect excuse for him to explain why he had to shower after seeing her.
And from my own experience I know that filing for divorce does not mean that a couple is over.... Divorce or separating doesn't mean the end of the intimacy for some couples (a lot of times in a way that isn't respectful of a new partner) and I seriously think that if that is the case, that you deserve better and only unhappiness can come from it.
I personally think that people need to be compatible in this area (how much and what type of activities are okay with others outside of our relationship) and I am much happier with a man who doesn't feel the need to be very active with women friends.
Its GREAT that it works for some people- but it doesn't for me. It triggers a huge amount of anxiety in me- and if it does for you then I would I would suggest you find a partner who can give you a higher feeling of emotional security.
posted by misspony at 7:14 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
The idea of my boyfriend getting hot and sweaty with his wife would piss.me.off. Yes, hot and sweaty with sex is worse... but the run would be bad enough. There is no reason for it. I would think that they had a level of intimacy that I just wouldn't be comfortable with in a relationship. My head would be filled with horrible scenarios where I would picture their blood pumping through their veins, their cheeks flushed, wifey wearing sexy workout gear- and one of them saying something like: man, I am going to really miss this stuff with you.... and one thing leading to another. And a "run" is the perfect excuse for him to explain why he had to shower after seeing her.
And from my own experience I know that filing for divorce does not mean that a couple is over.... Divorce or separating doesn't mean the end of the intimacy for some couples (a lot of times in a way that isn't respectful of a new partner) and I seriously think that if that is the case, that you deserve better and only unhappiness can come from it.
I personally think that people need to be compatible in this area (how much and what type of activities are okay with others outside of our relationship) and I am much happier with a man who doesn't feel the need to be very active with women friends.
Its GREAT that it works for some people- but it doesn't for me. It triggers a huge amount of anxiety in me- and if it does for you then I would I would suggest you find a partner who can give you a higher feeling of emotional security.
posted by misspony at 7:14 AM on November 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Jeez, guys, wow. I'm in the process of getting divorced, and I went out to dinner with my soon-to-be-ex-husband just last week to catch up, because we hadn't talked much for a couple of months. Then this weekend I drove him to and from a party we were both invited to by mutual friends, in the car that he's still letting me borrow because he's awesome. And there is no way in hell we're getting back together, and neither of us wants to. I'm dating already. He's not. I asked both the ex and someone I'm sort of involved with to my birthday party a few weeks ago, not assuming they'd both want to come. They did, and, while it was slightly awkward when the ex asked if the gentleman in question and I had a Thing, they got on just fine, and it was absolutely not the most awkward night of any of our lives.
What I'm saying is that this can be perfectly reasonable behaviour. Trust me. I have really and for true no desire to be romantically involved with the man I am not yet divorced from. We haven't even filed. But we like each other. We're friends, and we are going to continue to be friends. AND THAT'S OKAY.
OP, this may or may not be the case in your situation. Do listen to your gut. If it's your gut and not your brain telling you to be jealous here, pay attention to it. But if it's just that you have a script for how divorces are supposed to go, and there's supposed to be fighting and coldness, and it makes you slightly uncomfortable that this is going a different way, maybe you should wait and see. Because it really is possible to move on, but still like each other. My instinct, were I not in a similar situation, would be to say what everyone else has. But I am. And it's possible. Promise.
It depends on how uncomfortable this is making you. Have you brought it up to him? Has he refused to pay attention to your concerns? That's not cool. But... don't we want people to be friends with their exes? Isn't it Official Policy that this speaks well of them?
Just trying to provide an alternative perspective. I guess most divorces are more rancorous than mine, and we certainly had problems after we'd agreed to separate but he hadn't moved out yet. I know we're anomalous. But this can be okay. Promise. Maybe your boyfriend is anomalous too.
Maybe it's not okay. We can't know that. And it all comes down to your gut feelings and your boundaries. I just had to chime in as a person who really is platonic friends with an ex she hasn't finished divorcing yet, since everyone else piled on to the impossibility of such. (And, for those who question, I'm divorcing him in no small part because there was absolutely no physical attraction, and there still isn't. He's just a really cool guy, and I like him.)
posted by Because at 11:47 PM on November 5, 2013
What I'm saying is that this can be perfectly reasonable behaviour. Trust me. I have really and for true no desire to be romantically involved with the man I am not yet divorced from. We haven't even filed. But we like each other. We're friends, and we are going to continue to be friends. AND THAT'S OKAY.
OP, this may or may not be the case in your situation. Do listen to your gut. If it's your gut and not your brain telling you to be jealous here, pay attention to it. But if it's just that you have a script for how divorces are supposed to go, and there's supposed to be fighting and coldness, and it makes you slightly uncomfortable that this is going a different way, maybe you should wait and see. Because it really is possible to move on, but still like each other. My instinct, were I not in a similar situation, would be to say what everyone else has. But I am. And it's possible. Promise.
It depends on how uncomfortable this is making you. Have you brought it up to him? Has he refused to pay attention to your concerns? That's not cool. But... don't we want people to be friends with their exes? Isn't it Official Policy that this speaks well of them?
Just trying to provide an alternative perspective. I guess most divorces are more rancorous than mine, and we certainly had problems after we'd agreed to separate but he hadn't moved out yet. I know we're anomalous. But this can be okay. Promise. Maybe your boyfriend is anomalous too.
Maybe it's not okay. We can't know that. And it all comes down to your gut feelings and your boundaries. I just had to chime in as a person who really is platonic friends with an ex she hasn't finished divorcing yet, since everyone else piled on to the impossibility of such. (And, for those who question, I'm divorcing him in no small part because there was absolutely no physical attraction, and there still isn't. He's just a really cool guy, and I like him.)
posted by Because at 11:47 PM on November 5, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses, everyone...especially those that didn't automatically assume the worst. ;)
Talking is (as always) the best solution to this problem. Since posting, I've been upfront and clear (and mostly unashamed) with him about how I feel, he's been understanding and acknowledged those feelings as totally valid, and has also clarified some things about the process and particulars of his situation that were a little unclear before. We have some strategies going forward for how he can help me feel better about any future meetings that may need to happen.
I feel much better, having vocalized my concerns and had them received by an attentive and understanding ear.
He is a great guy, and things are good. :)
Thanks again for the input!
posted by Dorinda at 9:42 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
Talking is (as always) the best solution to this problem. Since posting, I've been upfront and clear (and mostly unashamed) with him about how I feel, he's been understanding and acknowledged those feelings as totally valid, and has also clarified some things about the process and particulars of his situation that were a little unclear before. We have some strategies going forward for how he can help me feel better about any future meetings that may need to happen.
I feel much better, having vocalized my concerns and had them received by an attentive and understanding ear.
He is a great guy, and things are good. :)
Thanks again for the input!
posted by Dorinda at 9:42 AM on November 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
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And by all means, keep talking to him about this. Even if it's just "I still feel really shitty about how jealous I get, and it's totally not your fault," it's important to keep communicating.
posted by Etrigan at 9:06 AM on November 4, 2013 [2 favorites]