I am not your mom
July 15, 2013 12:03 PM Subscribe
How do I handle tenants who live in my house and don’t clean up after themselves? I am a landlord/resident who is not there daily.
I rent rooms in my house in Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh, if it helps.) while I work and live primarily in another state. I return to the house about once per month. There are four bedrooms, which are not always occupied. My prices are mid-range, so I’ve not had any student tenants, and my home is in excellent condition.
I came home recently to find that the tenant who had been living there alone for the past month (I was between additional tenants) had not taken out the recycling, cleaned the bathroom, or emptied the lint trap on the dryer for the whole month I had been gone. I e-mailed him some information about recycling and in it asked him to take it out this week, start emptying the lint trap regularly and clean the bathroom before the end of the weekend. The end of the weekend came, and when I checked the bathroom it was cleaner but definitely not squeaky clean like I would like it. (And, more importantly, like it is easily capable of being just by cleaning carefully). How do I handle this? Do I ask him to clean it again? This man is in his early 30s, always pays his rent and utilities on time, but is generally just not very conscientious or the brightest bulb in the circuit.
How do I handle other problems or future problems? I’ve now had two additional people move in in addition to guy above. This morning I found cigarette butts on the front porch, a big no-no. Do I send another e-mail, this one to everyone? They are all men, if it matters, early thirties.
I don’t want to fall into this nagging mom role: I don’t think I should have to spoon feed people information about what day recycling is taken out. (I mentioned to him last time I was home a month ago that it went out with the trash on Thursdays every other week, but I wasn’t sure if it was an on week or an off week.) People don’t clean how I would like, but I’m not going to serve as my residents’ maid by cleaning when they do a crappy job. I also don’t want to have to bitch at people to do basic chores or tasks every time I come home. I feel like I’m always sending e-mail “reminders” about things that sometimes prompt action and sometimes don’t. One previous tenant told me e-mail was passive-aggressive, but I use e-mail so I can build a paper trail in the event of problems. It’s also difficult to round everybody up at one time in person due to different schedules. Do I need to just accept that this is what you’re dealing with when you rent and that people who don’t own the property will never be as careful? Should I just assume this is how people will act and rather than try to get them to change, plan around them somehow - Hiring a housekeeper? Raising rent to compensate for my time dealing with these types of things? Threaten residents with cleaning fees? There is only so much a housekeeper can do though; the tenants still need to take the trash and recycling out every week, for example.
This ties into issues I sometimes have with assertiveness/asking for what I want/confrontation, so please tell me if I am beanplating. (This is not my question but gives you a good idea of my internal struggle: http://ask.metafilter.com/231208/How-do-I-learn-to-stand-up-for-myself)
Thanks!
I rent rooms in my house in Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh, if it helps.) while I work and live primarily in another state. I return to the house about once per month. There are four bedrooms, which are not always occupied. My prices are mid-range, so I’ve not had any student tenants, and my home is in excellent condition.
I came home recently to find that the tenant who had been living there alone for the past month (I was between additional tenants) had not taken out the recycling, cleaned the bathroom, or emptied the lint trap on the dryer for the whole month I had been gone. I e-mailed him some information about recycling and in it asked him to take it out this week, start emptying the lint trap regularly and clean the bathroom before the end of the weekend. The end of the weekend came, and when I checked the bathroom it was cleaner but definitely not squeaky clean like I would like it. (And, more importantly, like it is easily capable of being just by cleaning carefully). How do I handle this? Do I ask him to clean it again? This man is in his early 30s, always pays his rent and utilities on time, but is generally just not very conscientious or the brightest bulb in the circuit.
How do I handle other problems or future problems? I’ve now had two additional people move in in addition to guy above. This morning I found cigarette butts on the front porch, a big no-no. Do I send another e-mail, this one to everyone? They are all men, if it matters, early thirties.
I don’t want to fall into this nagging mom role: I don’t think I should have to spoon feed people information about what day recycling is taken out. (I mentioned to him last time I was home a month ago that it went out with the trash on Thursdays every other week, but I wasn’t sure if it was an on week or an off week.) People don’t clean how I would like, but I’m not going to serve as my residents’ maid by cleaning when they do a crappy job. I also don’t want to have to bitch at people to do basic chores or tasks every time I come home. I feel like I’m always sending e-mail “reminders” about things that sometimes prompt action and sometimes don’t. One previous tenant told me e-mail was passive-aggressive, but I use e-mail so I can build a paper trail in the event of problems. It’s also difficult to round everybody up at one time in person due to different schedules. Do I need to just accept that this is what you’re dealing with when you rent and that people who don’t own the property will never be as careful? Should I just assume this is how people will act and rather than try to get them to change, plan around them somehow - Hiring a housekeeper? Raising rent to compensate for my time dealing with these types of things? Threaten residents with cleaning fees? There is only so much a housekeeper can do though; the tenants still need to take the trash and recycling out every week, for example.
This ties into issues I sometimes have with assertiveness/asking for what I want/confrontation, so please tell me if I am beanplating. (This is not my question but gives you a good idea of my internal struggle: http://ask.metafilter.com/231208/How-do-I-learn-to-stand-up-for-myself)
Thanks!
You could reduce the rent for one of your tenants and make that person the on-site "manager" -- in charge of keeping on top of this stuff. That person could have the responsibility to clean it up themselves, or the responsibility to make sure that everyone's doing their fair share.
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:09 PM on July 15, 2013 [18 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:09 PM on July 15, 2013 [18 favorites]
This man is in his early 30s, always pays his rent and utilities on time, but is generally just not very conscientious or the brightest bulb in the circuit.
The first half of this already makes this dude stand out from the crowd as an amazing tenant.
Do I need to just accept that this is what you’re dealing with when you rent and that people who don’t own the property will never be as careful?
Yes. It is a fact of life that no one is ever going to care about your house as much as you do.
Hiring a housekeeper?
That actually sounds like a good idea. Raise the rent to compensate for the cost of the cleaning service. Let them decide if the $X a month extra is worth it to them to start taking the trash out in a timely fashion and keeping the bathroom immaculate. They may decide it's easier just to have the cleaning service come.
That's really about all you can do. A squeaky clean bathroom isn't really something you can demand from the tenants.
posted by phunniemee at 12:09 PM on July 15, 2013 [52 favorites]
The first half of this already makes this dude stand out from the crowd as an amazing tenant.
Do I need to just accept that this is what you’re dealing with when you rent and that people who don’t own the property will never be as careful?
Yes. It is a fact of life that no one is ever going to care about your house as much as you do.
Hiring a housekeeper?
That actually sounds like a good idea. Raise the rent to compensate for the cost of the cleaning service. Let them decide if the $X a month extra is worth it to them to start taking the trash out in a timely fashion and keeping the bathroom immaculate. They may decide it's easier just to have the cleaning service come.
That's really about all you can do. A squeaky clean bathroom isn't really something you can demand from the tenants.
posted by phunniemee at 12:09 PM on July 15, 2013 [52 favorites]
I agree with Xingcat above.
Also, you could increase the rent and hire a cleaner, if only once per month, just to make sure the place is hygienic. You should not have to do that when you are dealing with adults, but if the tenants just don't get it, and let the place go downhill, it could reduce the value of your investment. Plus, there is something to be said for peace of mind.
posted by rpfields at 12:10 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, you could increase the rent and hire a cleaner, if only once per month, just to make sure the place is hygienic. You should not have to do that when you are dealing with adults, but if the tenants just don't get it, and let the place go downhill, it could reduce the value of your investment. Plus, there is something to be said for peace of mind.
posted by rpfields at 12:10 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Do I need to just accept that this is what you’re dealing with when you rent and that people who don’t own the property will never be as careful?
Well perhaps partially this, but also partially people have different standards of cleanliness.
Some jobs are pretty simple.. take out recycling, bring back bin, you could screw it up but fundamentally it's simple.
Clean the bathroom otoh has a lot of margins for personal preference a dozen or two different variables.
So yeah, I'd find someone who you rent to and make the offer of if you do XYZ I'll reduce the rent P amount. either that or raise the rent to offset having a cleaner come in once a week.
posted by edgeways at 12:13 PM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well perhaps partially this, but also partially people have different standards of cleanliness.
Some jobs are pretty simple.. take out recycling, bring back bin, you could screw it up but fundamentally it's simple.
Clean the bathroom otoh has a lot of margins for personal preference a dozen or two different variables.
So yeah, I'd find someone who you rent to and make the offer of if you do XYZ I'll reduce the rent P amount. either that or raise the rent to offset having a cleaner come in once a week.
posted by edgeways at 12:13 PM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Impossible to enforce cleaning responsibilities on paying tenants. If anything, tenants expect you as the landlord to perform maintenance and upkeep.
Hire a cleaning service.
As for cigarette butts, it would be great to take a hard line, but if you are absent there is not much you can do.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:14 PM on July 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
Hire a cleaning service.
As for cigarette butts, it would be great to take a hard line, but if you are absent there is not much you can do.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:14 PM on July 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
It is, in my experience, nearly impossible to shame or coerce adult human beings into adjusting their standards of cleanliness to meet your own when theirs are below yours, even when your own standards are reasonably mediocre. I agree with others above that hiring a cleaning service and raising the rent accordingly is the only way you will get any peace of mind.
posted by elizardbits at 12:16 PM on July 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 12:16 PM on July 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
Place an ashtray outside your door. Put up a sign or a calendar with the recycling schedule. It's better to work with people's limitations (the fact that they smoke, their natural forgetfulness) rather than expecting them to radically alter their behavior to meet your expectations.
"Squeaky clean bathroom" is an unreasonable expectation, in my opinion. If this is really important to you, you need to interview tenants with cleanliness in mind.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:18 PM on July 15, 2013 [9 favorites]
"Squeaky clean bathroom" is an unreasonable expectation, in my opinion. If this is really important to you, you need to interview tenants with cleanliness in mind.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:18 PM on July 15, 2013 [9 favorites]
I feel like this is a weird middle ground that you're in as a landlord who is also sometimes is a roommate. Stuff like taking out the recycling, cleaning the bathroom to a certain standard, etc. is stuff that would absolutely be none of your business if you didn't live there. A tenant's job (from my POV) is to leave the place as near as possible to the state they found it in. What they do while in residence is none of your business as long as it's something that they can clean when they leave.
So I'd be pretty pissed off if my landlord was doing things like telling me to clean my bathroom because it didn't meet *his* standards of clean. Since you're also a roommate, though, you certainly have a right to live in a house where all the roommates agree on a standard of cleanliness. But, as many roommate questions on the Green show, that's way easier said than done, and the solution is almost always "messiest roommate wins" or "neatnik roommate has to suck it up and clean things if they want them clean."
I guess for future renters you can spell out standards more explicitly in the lease, but unless you're giving people a real break on rent, I'm not sure what would make a living situation where the landlord gets on your case about washing dishes or doing your laundry an attractive option for potential tenants.
posted by MsMolly at 12:19 PM on July 15, 2013 [29 favorites]
So I'd be pretty pissed off if my landlord was doing things like telling me to clean my bathroom because it didn't meet *his* standards of clean. Since you're also a roommate, though, you certainly have a right to live in a house where all the roommates agree on a standard of cleanliness. But, as many roommate questions on the Green show, that's way easier said than done, and the solution is almost always "messiest roommate wins" or "neatnik roommate has to suck it up and clean things if they want them clean."
I guess for future renters you can spell out standards more explicitly in the lease, but unless you're giving people a real break on rent, I'm not sure what would make a living situation where the landlord gets on your case about washing dishes or doing your laundry an attractive option for potential tenants.
posted by MsMolly at 12:19 PM on July 15, 2013 [29 favorites]
Impossible to enforce cleaning responsibilities on paying tenants.
Agreed. I am a residential landlord as well, and it would not even occur to me to enforce cleaning responsibilities on my tenant. As a landlord, my cleanliness concerns are limited to making sure the carpets aren't stained, there is not a vermin problem, and that the place is not trashed.
You refer to the house as "home" four times in your question. Since you live and work primarily in another state, I do not think this is your home. This is a rental property in another state. Unless the tenants are trashing the place, which you do not indicate at all, I think you need to leave this one alone.
posted by Tanizaki at 12:27 PM on July 15, 2013 [16 favorites]
Agreed. I am a residential landlord as well, and it would not even occur to me to enforce cleaning responsibilities on my tenant. As a landlord, my cleanliness concerns are limited to making sure the carpets aren't stained, there is not a vermin problem, and that the place is not trashed.
You refer to the house as "home" four times in your question. Since you live and work primarily in another state, I do not think this is your home. This is a rental property in another state. Unless the tenants are trashing the place, which you do not indicate at all, I think you need to leave this one alone.
posted by Tanizaki at 12:27 PM on July 15, 2013 [16 favorites]
You need to decide whether this is a roommate situation or a tenant situation.
If it's a roommate situation, only choose roommates who are willing to abide by a cleaning schedule that you clarify up front. It sounds like you expect a specific level of cleanliness, and you need to own and address that.
If it's a tenant situation, wipe your hands of the whole thing unless people's sloppiness is causing damage to the property. Choose to look the other way if the bathroom isn't up to your standards on the few days per month that you visit.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 PM on July 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
If it's a roommate situation, only choose roommates who are willing to abide by a cleaning schedule that you clarify up front. It sounds like you expect a specific level of cleanliness, and you need to own and address that.
If it's a tenant situation, wipe your hands of the whole thing unless people's sloppiness is causing damage to the property. Choose to look the other way if the bathroom isn't up to your standards on the few days per month that you visit.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 PM on July 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
I am 32 years old. My bathroom has never, in my entire life, been "squeaky clean." I don't care how easy it would be to get it in that condition, because I just don't care about it being any more than "clean enough to bathe in." If someone I was living with wanted it cleaner than that, they would be welcome to clean it, and I would do my best not to make big messes that ruined their efforts, but I would not be willing to substantially increase my own chores just because my roommate was more fussy than I am.
Similarly, I don't consider a bag of recyclables (which I rinse out before putting them in the bin) in the house for a couple of weeks to be unsanitary or problematic. If I forget to take them out one week, or if the bin isn't totally full on trash day, I'll get around to it the next week, or the week after. No big deal.
If you want these things, you need to put them in the lease explicitly, provide services, and/or screen tenants explicitly for this sort of thing. Because if you want these people to be tenants, they're entitled to treat the house any way they want as long as it's in decent condition (the same, minus normal wear-and-tear) when they move out. If you want them to be roommates, you need to screen them like roommates for compatibility in living styles, and you need to choose people who agree with your standards. And ultimately, you need to be prepared to do all of this stuff yourself or pay someone else to do it if they don't.
As with most of these lifestyle things, it's not that you're correct and they're incorrect (or that they're not "conscientious" or that they're stupid or bad); you just have an honest difference of opinion. You can't approach this as though you are right and they are wrong, and you are not justified in nagging them or bitching at them. Especially since you are not living there regularly, you're not putting in the work (or paying someone else to), and you didn't give them advance notice that your above-average standard of cleanliness was a requirement of the lease.
posted by decathecting at 12:30 PM on July 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
Similarly, I don't consider a bag of recyclables (which I rinse out before putting them in the bin) in the house for a couple of weeks to be unsanitary or problematic. If I forget to take them out one week, or if the bin isn't totally full on trash day, I'll get around to it the next week, or the week after. No big deal.
If you want these things, you need to put them in the lease explicitly, provide services, and/or screen tenants explicitly for this sort of thing. Because if you want these people to be tenants, they're entitled to treat the house any way they want as long as it's in decent condition (the same, minus normal wear-and-tear) when they move out. If you want them to be roommates, you need to screen them like roommates for compatibility in living styles, and you need to choose people who agree with your standards. And ultimately, you need to be prepared to do all of this stuff yourself or pay someone else to do it if they don't.
As with most of these lifestyle things, it's not that you're correct and they're incorrect (or that they're not "conscientious" or that they're stupid or bad); you just have an honest difference of opinion. You can't approach this as though you are right and they are wrong, and you are not justified in nagging them or bitching at them. Especially since you are not living there regularly, you're not putting in the work (or paying someone else to), and you didn't give them advance notice that your above-average standard of cleanliness was a requirement of the lease.
posted by decathecting at 12:30 PM on July 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: Perhaps to clarify the situation a bit: Both recycle bins were overflowing with unrinsed recyclables that were there for over a month, and there were flies in the kitchen. My primary concern there is bugs. As for the bathroom, I chiefly had in mind the fact that the toilet bowl was still stained after "cleaning", and I worried that if left that way long enough it would never come clean again.
I was once threatened with eviction from an apartment (run by a realty company) because they didn't feel my apartment was clean enough when they went in to do repairs, so I'm confused by the idea that I cannot dictate basic standards of cleanliness.
I spend 4-7 days of every month there.
posted by unannihilated at 12:41 PM on July 15, 2013
I was once threatened with eviction from an apartment (run by a realty company) because they didn't feel my apartment was clean enough when they went in to do repairs, so I'm confused by the idea that I cannot dictate basic standards of cleanliness.
I spend 4-7 days of every month there.
posted by unannihilated at 12:41 PM on July 15, 2013
I'm lucky enough to have very clean tenants in my property--the house has been spotless every time I've seen it--but that's not really...normal? The big clean is usually reserved for move-out, if anything. If it really troubles you, up the rent next time the lease comes due and, as others have suggested, get a weekly/monthly cleaning service.
posted by thomas j wise at 12:45 PM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by thomas j wise at 12:45 PM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would be upset if I were chided by my landlords for not keeping the bathroom "squeaky clean" or other comments about the recycling. I, too, do not take it out unless the volume warrants it. While I would be upset if they deemed my cleaning "not habitable," if this is something you didn't discuss with your tenants previously, you should probably not push the issue. I have had landlords evict fellow tenants for inhabitable conditions and it was more like "tore all of the faucets out, took out the smoke detectors, and had kitty litter everywhere" whereas our apartment was mildly cluttered/unswept and they were totally fine with it. (They have literally never examined the toilet.) If the lease your tenants have signed doesn't say anything about cleaning, I don't think you can or should push the issue.
on preview: Bugs are way different than just not taking the recycling out and I'd be worried about that too! Unfortunately you're dealing with adults who apparently don't mind bugs. I would lay out your concerns again, specifically about the bugs. If it doesn't change, unfortunately I think your options are still cleaning it up yourself or hiring a service.
Cigarette butts are a bigger and reasonable problem, as presumably a carelessly still-lit cigarette butt could actually cause damage to the house. I would put out a suitable tray (or two) on your porch and send an email about it and its ideal placement.
posted by jetlagaddict at 12:48 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
on preview: Bugs are way different than just not taking the recycling out and I'd be worried about that too! Unfortunately you're dealing with adults who apparently don't mind bugs. I would lay out your concerns again, specifically about the bugs. If it doesn't change, unfortunately I think your options are still cleaning it up yourself or hiring a service.
Cigarette butts are a bigger and reasonable problem, as presumably a carelessly still-lit cigarette butt could actually cause damage to the house. I would put out a suitable tray (or two) on your porch and send an email about it and its ideal placement.
posted by jetlagaddict at 12:48 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was once threatened with eviction from an apartment (run by a realty company) because they didn't feel my apartment was clean enough when they went in to do repairs, so I'm confused by the idea that I cannot dictate basic standards of cleanliness.
Look at landlord-tenant laws for your house's jurisdiction. On the one hand, this is probably something you can put in a lease - as long as you are actually prepared to evict people for violating it. On the other, it is probably not an issue specifically addressed by actual laws in your house's jurisdiction when it comes to what legal obligations tenants must abide by.
So if you'd signed a lease saying "We can kick you out if the place isn't spotless", then they probably could. If not, then they were blowing smoke.
posted by rtha at 12:52 PM on July 15, 2013
Look at landlord-tenant laws for your house's jurisdiction. On the one hand, this is probably something you can put in a lease - as long as you are actually prepared to evict people for violating it. On the other, it is probably not an issue specifically addressed by actual laws in your house's jurisdiction when it comes to what legal obligations tenants must abide by.
So if you'd signed a lease saying "We can kick you out if the place isn't spotless", then they probably could. If not, then they were blowing smoke.
posted by rtha at 12:52 PM on July 15, 2013
If you want a paper trail and you don't want to be passive-aggressive, then communicate directly with the person when there's an issue, and follow up with an email. "Per our discussion and the terms of your lease, there is to be no smoking on the porch and the recycling is to be stored in the green bin outside and brought to the curb every other Wednesday after 8pm." I assume your leases specify these things. The bathroom being cleaned to your specs isn't as enforceable but the lint tray is a fire hazard.
posted by headnsouth at 1:01 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by headnsouth at 1:01 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, if you're a roommate, and a landlord, then you're going to be the Mom in this scenario. Treat your tenants as roommates and specifiy in your rules what it is you expect.
For example, if you expect the recycling to be taken out weekly, then put it in a document that each tenant signs.
You do this BEFORE people agree to be your roommates. That way, if they don't like it, they can move on. Put it in your ads.
The other option is to give people a heads up before you plan on coming to the house. If you didn't see it, it didn't happen.
There are some things you can do prophalactically to aid cleaning.
Throw a Kaboom or 2000 Flushes in the toilet tank. (don't do this if there are pets).
Get an Automatic Shower Cleaner.
Another thing you can do is advertise for a house-slave. (I'm totally not kidding here.) Have the guy pay YOU to boss him around to clean your house for you.
Some folks have a tolerance for what you and I would consider squalor. Everything in life is a negotiation.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:26 PM on July 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
For example, if you expect the recycling to be taken out weekly, then put it in a document that each tenant signs.
You do this BEFORE people agree to be your roommates. That way, if they don't like it, they can move on. Put it in your ads.
The other option is to give people a heads up before you plan on coming to the house. If you didn't see it, it didn't happen.
There are some things you can do prophalactically to aid cleaning.
Throw a Kaboom or 2000 Flushes in the toilet tank. (don't do this if there are pets).
Get an Automatic Shower Cleaner.
Another thing you can do is advertise for a house-slave. (I'm totally not kidding here.) Have the guy pay YOU to boss him around to clean your house for you.
Some folks have a tolerance for what you and I would consider squalor. Everything in life is a negotiation.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:26 PM on July 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
Lots of people suck at keeping track of what day the recycling goes out. Get a calendar, put it in the kitchen, mark the evenings when recycling and trash go out. He cleaned the bathroom, getting it clean to your standards is a tough challenge. I think a weekly housekeeper to clean the kitchen floor and the bathroom is a terrific idea. 2 hours/ $40 50, tops.
posted by theora55 at 1:55 PM on July 15, 2013
posted by theora55 at 1:55 PM on July 15, 2013
I've been in this situation before as the renter. Agreeing with everyone else that it's really important to make your expectations clear up front.
Also, please be aware that this kind of situation can be pretty stressful for the renter. Not only do you own the place, but you also have the right to come in anytime you want (which regular landlords do not) AND you see this as your home, not just a rental property, and thus have an emotional attachment to it.
Personally, I would be pretty irritated if either a roommate or a landlord demanded that I keep the bathroom "squeaky clean" because that's just not a priority for me. You and I would probably not be great roommate for that reason, and that's fine. But since you're already living with this guy, you have to negotiate with him and figure out what works for the two of you.
If you want to set the rules, then you kind of have to take responsibility for making sure those rules are followed, whether it's through a chore schedule or something else like that. If you don't feel like you have the time or temperament for that, then you need to accept that you're pretty much a part-time housemate.
The other option is to give people a heads up before you plan on coming to the house. If you didn't see it, it didn't happen.
Do this. I once had a roommate/landlord who was only there on random weekends. When she let me know ahead of time she was coming home, I would make sure to put in the time to make the place really nice before she came home. A few times she came home without warning and it had been a few days since I'd cleaned. This sucked for both of us - she came home to a dirty house, I felt awful about leaving a mess for her. It was so much better for everyone when she gave me notice.
posted by lunasol at 2:32 PM on July 15, 2013
Also, please be aware that this kind of situation can be pretty stressful for the renter. Not only do you own the place, but you also have the right to come in anytime you want (which regular landlords do not) AND you see this as your home, not just a rental property, and thus have an emotional attachment to it.
Personally, I would be pretty irritated if either a roommate or a landlord demanded that I keep the bathroom "squeaky clean" because that's just not a priority for me. You and I would probably not be great roommate for that reason, and that's fine. But since you're already living with this guy, you have to negotiate with him and figure out what works for the two of you.
If you want to set the rules, then you kind of have to take responsibility for making sure those rules are followed, whether it's through a chore schedule or something else like that. If you don't feel like you have the time or temperament for that, then you need to accept that you're pretty much a part-time housemate.
The other option is to give people a heads up before you plan on coming to the house. If you didn't see it, it didn't happen.
Do this. I once had a roommate/landlord who was only there on random weekends. When she let me know ahead of time she was coming home, I would make sure to put in the time to make the place really nice before she came home. A few times she came home without warning and it had been a few days since I'd cleaned. This sucked for both of us - she came home to a dirty house, I felt awful about leaving a mess for her. It was so much better for everyone when she gave me notice.
posted by lunasol at 2:32 PM on July 15, 2013
Response by poster: Not to threadsit, but -
I always give at least a few days' heads up before coming home for exactly the reasons you suggest and will sometimes even say in the e-mail things like, "I'll be showing the house so I'd greatly appreciate it if you tidy up." This time was no exception. It didn't matter. This is part of why I say the guy is not conscientious/not really all there.
posted by unannihilated at 2:41 PM on July 15, 2013
I always give at least a few days' heads up before coming home for exactly the reasons you suggest and will sometimes even say in the e-mail things like, "I'll be showing the house so I'd greatly appreciate it if you tidy up." This time was no exception. It didn't matter. This is part of why I say the guy is not conscientious/not really all there.
posted by unannihilated at 2:41 PM on July 15, 2013
I always give at least a few days' heads up before coming home for exactly the reasons you suggest and will sometimes even say in the e-mail things like, "I'll be showing the house so I'd greatly appreciate it if you tidy up." This time was no exception. It didn't matter. This is part of why I say the guy is not conscientious/not really all there.
Thanks for the update - that's good to know.
In that case, I think you need to either reach a compromise with him about how clean the bathroom should be or accept that you're not well-suited to share a house.
He might not be conscientious or all there, or he might just be someone with different standards of cleanliness. Honestly, it doesn't really matter who's "wrong" and who's "right" - what matters is whether or not the two of you can make it work as housemates, and how you can set yourself up in the future for better shared housing/tenant situations.
posted by lunasol at 3:47 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the update - that's good to know.
In that case, I think you need to either reach a compromise with him about how clean the bathroom should be or accept that you're not well-suited to share a house.
He might not be conscientious or all there, or he might just be someone with different standards of cleanliness. Honestly, it doesn't really matter who's "wrong" and who's "right" - what matters is whether or not the two of you can make it work as housemates, and how you can set yourself up in the future for better shared housing/tenant situations.
posted by lunasol at 3:47 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I'll be showing the house so I'd greatly appreciate it if you tidy up."
I think this is your problem. What does tidy up mean? What if your tenants don't really care whether you "appreciate" them? You're asking for a vaguely defined favor because there's a special event coming up. Clearly define the standards and ensure that they're always met (loo cleaned every Saturday including mop floor, wipe down outside of toilet, windex mirror and window, scrub inside of toilet, etc.). Not on Saturdays when you're home or when you're showing the place, and not as a favor. House rules that tenants agree to with the lease, and posted on a master house calendar that includes recycling schedule etc.
posted by headnsouth at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think this is your problem. What does tidy up mean? What if your tenants don't really care whether you "appreciate" them? You're asking for a vaguely defined favor because there's a special event coming up. Clearly define the standards and ensure that they're always met (loo cleaned every Saturday including mop floor, wipe down outside of toilet, windex mirror and window, scrub inside of toilet, etc.). Not on Saturdays when you're home or when you're showing the place, and not as a favor. House rules that tenants agree to with the lease, and posted on a master house calendar that includes recycling schedule etc.
posted by headnsouth at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
I do not think you are beanplating, but...
This is tricky. I empathize with you because nothing drags me down more than coming home to a dirty house, but those who've pointed out that you being a roommate and the landlord could lead to differing expectations as to what constitutes clean, are correct as well. Not putting the recyclables out every week wouldn't really be a big deal if your tenants were properly rinsing and collecting them, but once the bins start to overflow and attract flies and vermin, I think you're perfectly right, either as landlord or roommate, to call your tenants out on their slovenliness. Once pests gain a foothold in your home, they can be murderously hard to get rid of, so you being proactive on this front is good for everyone in the long run.
The cigarette butts on the ground, otoh, while rude and annoying, are not creating such a nuisance that it will impact everyone. Put an astray on the porch and empty it yourself if they don't.
Were I in your shoes, I'd talk to each tenant individually or post a reminder note on the fridge and email them every time before I plan to come home that the recyclables need to be taken out and the house cleaned before I got there. No asking. If you think they have specific things that need to be addressed like the cigarette butts, spell that out also. If necessary, hire a cleaning service (before you leave next time) and itemize the list of annoyances that your tenants tend to commit, make sure the cleaning service comes in the day before you're due to come home, let them do their thing and just ride this lease out. When lease renewal time comes, you can either bump the rent up so much that your current tenants will be encouraged to move (to cover the extra expense of the cleaning service and being their nagging parent) and be a bit more choosy on your next tenants or just tell them flat out that their sloppy habits have necessitated a rate increase and that this increase is non-negotiable. Every month, bill them for the full amount of rent, plus whatever the cleaning service charges you and a small fee for your time and trouble. If you return home and the house and property are clean, give them "credit" on their next bill (-x amount for cleaning). If not, you at least will have a clean house to return to and they can't say they weren't warned.
Money is always more motivating than nagging. You are not the bad guy here and insisting that the home you rent is kept to a reasonable standard that doesn't attract flies and vermin is not confrontational or rude.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 4:27 PM on July 15, 2013
This is tricky. I empathize with you because nothing drags me down more than coming home to a dirty house, but those who've pointed out that you being a roommate and the landlord could lead to differing expectations as to what constitutes clean, are correct as well. Not putting the recyclables out every week wouldn't really be a big deal if your tenants were properly rinsing and collecting them, but once the bins start to overflow and attract flies and vermin, I think you're perfectly right, either as landlord or roommate, to call your tenants out on their slovenliness. Once pests gain a foothold in your home, they can be murderously hard to get rid of, so you being proactive on this front is good for everyone in the long run.
The cigarette butts on the ground, otoh, while rude and annoying, are not creating such a nuisance that it will impact everyone. Put an astray on the porch and empty it yourself if they don't.
Were I in your shoes, I'd talk to each tenant individually or post a reminder note on the fridge and email them every time before I plan to come home that the recyclables need to be taken out and the house cleaned before I got there. No asking. If you think they have specific things that need to be addressed like the cigarette butts, spell that out also. If necessary, hire a cleaning service (before you leave next time) and itemize the list of annoyances that your tenants tend to commit, make sure the cleaning service comes in the day before you're due to come home, let them do their thing and just ride this lease out. When lease renewal time comes, you can either bump the rent up so much that your current tenants will be encouraged to move (to cover the extra expense of the cleaning service and being their nagging parent) and be a bit more choosy on your next tenants or just tell them flat out that their sloppy habits have necessitated a rate increase and that this increase is non-negotiable. Every month, bill them for the full amount of rent, plus whatever the cleaning service charges you and a small fee for your time and trouble. If you return home and the house and property are clean, give them "credit" on their next bill (-x amount for cleaning). If not, you at least will have a clean house to return to and they can't say they weren't warned.
Money is always more motivating than nagging. You are not the bad guy here and insisting that the home you rent is kept to a reasonable standard that doesn't attract flies and vermin is not confrontational or rude.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 4:27 PM on July 15, 2013
Basically, I'd check out the laws where you live, put your standards in the lease, and then start to increase the amount of hassle until they comply or until you evict them.
But -- and this is what I was really coming here to say -- keep things in perspective. A toilet bowl that needs scrubbed more than once to come totally clean is NOT a big deal. A drier that is functioning at less-than-optimal efficiency is not a big deal. (Now if the lint had piled up to fire-risk levels, that is more of a big deal.)
A friend of mine allows his tenants to have a cat or two. He found out that one of his tenants had like twelve cats and instead of using a litter box, this person had covered the carpets with newspaper and was letting them use the bathroom wherever. Eeeeeeek. He had to evict that person and redo the flooring throughout the entire unit.
Until that point, that was one of his better tenants, because he paid his rent on time. It seems to me that at any given time, about 25% of his tenants are behind on rent and in the process of receiving a warning or (after some time) an eviction notice. So, if this guy is otherwise a good tenant, I would try to chill out a bit about some of what you mention.
posted by slidell at 4:58 PM on July 15, 2013
But -- and this is what I was really coming here to say -- keep things in perspective. A toilet bowl that needs scrubbed more than once to come totally clean is NOT a big deal. A drier that is functioning at less-than-optimal efficiency is not a big deal. (Now if the lint had piled up to fire-risk levels, that is more of a big deal.)
A friend of mine allows his tenants to have a cat or two. He found out that one of his tenants had like twelve cats and instead of using a litter box, this person had covered the carpets with newspaper and was letting them use the bathroom wherever. Eeeeeeek. He had to evict that person and redo the flooring throughout the entire unit.
Until that point, that was one of his better tenants, because he paid his rent on time. It seems to me that at any given time, about 25% of his tenants are behind on rent and in the process of receiving a warning or (after some time) an eviction notice. So, if this guy is otherwise a good tenant, I would try to chill out a bit about some of what you mention.
posted by slidell at 4:58 PM on July 15, 2013
Totally agree with lunasol - please try to empathise with the tenants. Living in a house where the landlord is also a tenant is stressful, and you are forever treading on eggshells. If I've had a shitty busy week at work and want to hit the pub on a Friday night, my top priority might not be cleaning the toilet for your visit first thing on Saturday morning.
Your tenants might only be putting up with this possibly crappy situation because they have no choice. Please cut them some slack - remember they are the paying customer making you a profit, not vice versa . If you don't want people messing up your house, don't rent out your house.
posted by firesine at 4:58 PM on July 15, 2013 [7 favorites]
Your tenants might only be putting up with this possibly crappy situation because they have no choice. Please cut them some slack - remember they are the paying customer making you a profit, not vice versa . If you don't want people messing up your house, don't rent out your house.
posted by firesine at 4:58 PM on July 15, 2013 [7 favorites]
As others have said, this sounds like a rental property and not a home. The standards are different. Short of vermin or fire hazards, I would never disturb a pay-on-time tenant unless another pay-on-time tenant complained about them.
If you don't like dealing with people, you can consider hiring professional management and let them run this property. Or, if you want it to be low-key, formally designate a suitable tenant to be "house manager" and give them a break on the rent.
posted by 99percentfake at 6:42 PM on July 15, 2013
If you don't like dealing with people, you can consider hiring professional management and let them run this property. Or, if you want it to be low-key, formally designate a suitable tenant to be "house manager" and give them a break on the rent.
posted by 99percentfake at 6:42 PM on July 15, 2013
You really can't expect a spotless bathroom. A clean bathroom--no pee around the toilet, major gunge in the bath/shower, and overflowing garbage is one thing, but spotless is another. It's not worth your stress and time. Hire a maid service once a month. You cover until lease renewal comes up, then up the rent just enough to cover that expense. Then you know the hidden dirt is getting taken care of.
Let them know that taking recycling out is mandatory, and explain that because of the insect issue this is not up for discussion. Post a very visible schedule right above the bins with a reminder to rinse out containers.
Leaving cigarette butts on the porch is juvenile. Put up a no smoking sign. They can go down to the local bar if they want to smoke.
Put a sign above the dryer (with little eyeballs) reading "empty the lint trap." Often that's something that people just don't think about.
Don't nag, but make it clear in writing--either letter or email--that these are non-negotiable issues, and repeated violation will be met with an unrenewed lease and unrefunded security deposit.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:41 PM on July 15, 2013
Let them know that taking recycling out is mandatory, and explain that because of the insect issue this is not up for discussion. Post a very visible schedule right above the bins with a reminder to rinse out containers.
Leaving cigarette butts on the porch is juvenile. Put up a no smoking sign. They can go down to the local bar if they want to smoke.
Put a sign above the dryer (with little eyeballs) reading "empty the lint trap." Often that's something that people just don't think about.
Don't nag, but make it clear in writing--either letter or email--that these are non-negotiable issues, and repeated violation will be met with an unrenewed lease and unrefunded security deposit.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:41 PM on July 15, 2013
a fee for a cleaner needs to be part of the rental agreement. i'd argue this would attract more people. "ah, a cheaper living situation, and i don't have to worry about messy housemates."
you could word it in such a way that you may waive the fee at your discretion (with no promise that it will ever be waived) and list necessary but not sufficient things that would need to be done for you to be willing to waive the fee. i would find an expensive, high quality cleaning service and pass the whole cost onto your tenants. then it's really up to them if they're willing to pay for it or not.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:21 PM on July 15, 2013
you could word it in such a way that you may waive the fee at your discretion (with no promise that it will ever be waived) and list necessary but not sufficient things that would need to be done for you to be willing to waive the fee. i would find an expensive, high quality cleaning service and pass the whole cost onto your tenants. then it's really up to them if they're willing to pay for it or not.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:21 PM on July 15, 2013
I agree with all the comments that say hire a cleaner and raise the rent accordingly. I lived in a housemate situation where the primary tenant had a housekeeper in twice a month, mostly to clean the bathrooms and floors, and it was *so* worth the extra money (split over 4 people was an extra $60/month) to a) always have a clean place, and b) not have to hassle with the roommates over who wasn't cleaning adequately.
I bet a good private, independent house cleaner would be willing to arrange a schedule that coincides with the day the recycling needs to go out. Write it in to your cleaning contract as that the cleaner takes the recyclables out as part of the cleaning.
posted by Ardea alba at 3:36 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I bet a good private, independent house cleaner would be willing to arrange a schedule that coincides with the day the recycling needs to go out. Write it in to your cleaning contract as that the cleaner takes the recyclables out as part of the cleaning.
posted by Ardea alba at 3:36 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
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