Fear and Loving in NYC
June 5, 2013 12:59 PM Subscribe
Why am I not successful in love and lust?
So, this will seem like a shallow question, and you can feel free to judge me. Here's the thing: I recently moved to NY from a university town, and my sex life has evaporated. I go out, I talk to women, I'm actually fairly good at initiating conversations, I've even made out a few times. But follow-ups don't seem to be forthcoming, and I still haven't gone home with anyone. I'm attractive and tall, and I dress well, but I also have what others have described as "aspergers-like" qualities - abrupt movement, hyper-logical speech, bluntness. It's my longest period without sex in my adult life and it's beginning to consume me in a very strong way. I have to take Klonopin just to stem the anxiety from going this long without sex.
There are two things going on: I'm looking for women that I'd like to date long term, and I'm looking for people to just hook up with to break the spell of celibacy, which has begun to dominate every moment of my waking life. Neither seem to be forthcoming. In a city where casual sex is so predominant, I'm trying to figure out what monstrosity of personality prevents me from ever having it.
Caveat 1: I refuse to invite people to my place, 1) because it's way too far off the beaten track and 2) because my roommate is awful. In other words, for anything to happen, the other person would have to invite me over.
Caveat 2: I don't want to lower my standards. The people I was dating and flirting with in NC were interesting, fun, cool, beautiful people. I don't feel like I should have to sacrifice that in NY.
So, this will seem like a shallow question, and you can feel free to judge me. Here's the thing: I recently moved to NY from a university town, and my sex life has evaporated. I go out, I talk to women, I'm actually fairly good at initiating conversations, I've even made out a few times. But follow-ups don't seem to be forthcoming, and I still haven't gone home with anyone. I'm attractive and tall, and I dress well, but I also have what others have described as "aspergers-like" qualities - abrupt movement, hyper-logical speech, bluntness. It's my longest period without sex in my adult life and it's beginning to consume me in a very strong way. I have to take Klonopin just to stem the anxiety from going this long without sex.
There are two things going on: I'm looking for women that I'd like to date long term, and I'm looking for people to just hook up with to break the spell of celibacy, which has begun to dominate every moment of my waking life. Neither seem to be forthcoming. In a city where casual sex is so predominant, I'm trying to figure out what monstrosity of personality prevents me from ever having it.
Caveat 1: I refuse to invite people to my place, 1) because it's way too far off the beaten track and 2) because my roommate is awful. In other words, for anything to happen, the other person would have to invite me over.
Caveat 2: I don't want to lower my standards. The people I was dating and flirting with in NC were interesting, fun, cool, beautiful people. I don't feel like I should have to sacrifice that in NY.
Best answer: It is probably a combination of a few factors:
I also have what others have described as "aspergers-like" qualities - abrupt movement, hyper-logical speech, bluntness
which is probably kind of likely to disqualify you from casual hookup situations, as those tend to be light sorts of affairs; someone looking for hookups will be looking for someone who radiates fun. If you have insurance, I would suggest starting to talk to a therapist - these characteristics may be something you can work on and come off more relaxed and fun
Also,
it's beginning to consume me in a very strong way. I have to take Klonopin just to stem the anxiety from going this long without sex.
This kind of anxiety and desperation is a huge turnoff to most potential partners and I promise you that it's more noticeable than you think it is. This is also something that can be managed with therapy, but in the meantime, I don't know, yoga maybe? Mindfulness meditation? Pour that energy into hobbies?
So my advice to you is:
1. Therapy.
2. Go to meetup groups for things you are interested in. Make friends. Make friends with the friends of those friends. Become a known quantity. The more people you know, the wider your social network becomes and the greater are your chances to meet the people you're looking for.
3. If you're of a kinky bent, sign up for Fetlife and find a local munch. Post on the message board for it before going if you're nervous about just approaching a group of strangers - in other words, becoming a known quantity helps here, too. I've found that the Aspergery quantities you describe are less of a liability in geek or kink circles (and there is a lot of overlap between the two), and are much more tolerated.
Beyond that, it's hard to say. If I were talking to you in person, I could probably tell you more. There isn't really a lot to go on based on what you've written but I think the two factors I've listed above are the most likely.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:13 PM on June 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
I also have what others have described as "aspergers-like" qualities - abrupt movement, hyper-logical speech, bluntness
which is probably kind of likely to disqualify you from casual hookup situations, as those tend to be light sorts of affairs; someone looking for hookups will be looking for someone who radiates fun. If you have insurance, I would suggest starting to talk to a therapist - these characteristics may be something you can work on and come off more relaxed and fun
Also,
it's beginning to consume me in a very strong way. I have to take Klonopin just to stem the anxiety from going this long without sex.
This kind of anxiety and desperation is a huge turnoff to most potential partners and I promise you that it's more noticeable than you think it is. This is also something that can be managed with therapy, but in the meantime, I don't know, yoga maybe? Mindfulness meditation? Pour that energy into hobbies?
So my advice to you is:
1. Therapy.
2. Go to meetup groups for things you are interested in. Make friends. Make friends with the friends of those friends. Become a known quantity. The more people you know, the wider your social network becomes and the greater are your chances to meet the people you're looking for.
3. If you're of a kinky bent, sign up for Fetlife and find a local munch. Post on the message board for it before going if you're nervous about just approaching a group of strangers - in other words, becoming a known quantity helps here, too. I've found that the Aspergery quantities you describe are less of a liability in geek or kink circles (and there is a lot of overlap between the two), and are much more tolerated.
Beyond that, it's hard to say. If I were talking to you in person, I could probably tell you more. There isn't really a lot to go on based on what you've written but I think the two factors I've listed above are the most likely.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:13 PM on June 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: For a hook-up, my standards are: mutual attraction. To date someone, it's a bit more. The ones I've made out with were at bars. I've gone on OKC dates with a few women, but nothing serious so far.
My standards for dating tend to veer toward creative professionals (or at least aspiring creative people) with a good sense of style and kind, intelligent women with good smiles. My friends tell me I go for "type A's."
I've gone on a couple OKC dates. A lot of mixed signals, a lot of testing. In NC, this just wasn't the case. People were less doubtful, less reticent, and the reticence makes me very anxious (I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and depression).
posted by nob'dy at 1:14 PM on June 5, 2013
My standards for dating tend to veer toward creative professionals (or at least aspiring creative people) with a good sense of style and kind, intelligent women with good smiles. My friends tell me I go for "type A's."
I've gone on a couple OKC dates. A lot of mixed signals, a lot of testing. In NC, this just wasn't the case. People were less doubtful, less reticent, and the reticence makes me very anxious (I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and depression).
posted by nob'dy at 1:14 PM on June 5, 2013
Best answer: #1 might be getting in your way more than you think. I live in NYC and many of my girl friends have expressed a strong preference for playing the "away game," meaning going to a man's apartment instead of inviting them back to yours. I personally don't feel that way but apparently a lot of them feel more comfortable going somewhere and then being able to leave when they want to end the encounter, as opposed to having a near stranger in your home and having to ask or try to force them to get out.
posted by telegraph at 1:16 PM on June 5, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 1:16 PM on June 5, 2013 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: which is probably kind of likely to disqualify you from casual hookup situations, as those tend to be light sorts of affairs; someone looking for hookups will be looking for someone who radiates fun.
There's the crux! I don't radiate fun. I know this much about myself. I want to change that.
posted by nob'dy at 1:17 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's the crux! I don't radiate fun. I know this much about myself. I want to change that.
posted by nob'dy at 1:17 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, unfortunately, there's still a prevailing mythos that a woman asking a guy home is pushy and off-putting, so if you're always waiting for women to ask, you may be waiting a while. "My place is in [east back of nowhere], but . . ." may do something for you.
posted by ostro at 1:18 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by ostro at 1:18 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Dating in NYC is like the Dating Hunger Games. I had zero sex--literally, none, nada, zilch--the entire half-decade that I lived there (and I was an attractive woman in her late teens and early 20s. In all other cities I have dated/been pursued by men a pretty normal amount.)
I would hazard that rather than some "monstrosity of personality", it's merely that your pool of options is now a) vast and b) highly competitive. It takes almost nothing to get laid in a college town. It takes ALL YOU HAVE GOT to date in Manhattan. You gotta drum up your game like 1000%.
The following is blunt and not how I'd wanna live, but that's why I don't live there no more:
-Best shape of your life. Get in it. And I mean *best*.
-Srsly you gotta work it, professionally and personally speaking.
-Start working on those "Aspergers-like" qualities you mention; am I correct in inferring you are not actually non-neurotypical, but merely awkward in a similar way? In that case, you might strive to address it.
Also seconding on preview what telegraph said about refusing to bring people home, it's possibly holding you back.
posted by like_a_friend at 1:18 PM on June 5, 2013 [17 favorites]
I would hazard that rather than some "monstrosity of personality", it's merely that your pool of options is now a) vast and b) highly competitive. It takes almost nothing to get laid in a college town. It takes ALL YOU HAVE GOT to date in Manhattan. You gotta drum up your game like 1000%.
The following is blunt and not how I'd wanna live, but that's why I don't live there no more:
-Best shape of your life. Get in it. And I mean *best*.
-Srsly you gotta work it, professionally and personally speaking.
-Start working on those "Aspergers-like" qualities you mention; am I correct in inferring you are not actually non-neurotypical, but merely awkward in a similar way? In that case, you might strive to address it.
Also seconding on preview what telegraph said about refusing to bring people home, it's possibly holding you back.
posted by like_a_friend at 1:18 PM on June 5, 2013 [17 favorites]
The people I was dating and flirting with in NC were interesting, fun, cool, beautiful people. I don't feel like I should have to sacrifice that in NY.
Your feelings aside, the odds have moved against your favor. You are now in a much bigger pond and have to compete with a lot of bigger fish.
On preview, what like_a_friend said. Now that you are in the much bigger, much more competitive pond, you have to raise your game. Get in the best shape possible, dress yourself, and work on social game. Portray confidence even if you aren't - just sell that you believe it.
posted by Tanizaki at 1:23 PM on June 5, 2013
Your feelings aside, the odds have moved against your favor. You are now in a much bigger pond and have to compete with a lot of bigger fish.
On preview, what like_a_friend said. Now that you are in the much bigger, much more competitive pond, you have to raise your game. Get in the best shape possible, dress yourself, and work on social game. Portray confidence even if you aren't - just sell that you believe it.
posted by Tanizaki at 1:23 PM on June 5, 2013
My experience in NYC was exactly like like_a_friend's. Except I am a guy. You are now a tiny fish in a gigantic ocean. It ain't easy.
posted by gnutron at 1:24 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by gnutron at 1:24 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
My standards for dating tend to veer toward creative professionals (or at least aspiring creative people) with a good sense of style and kind, intelligent women with good smiles. My friends tell me I go for "type A's."
Given that you live far away and have a difficult roommate, I'm guessing that you are the sort of person in NYC who is being out-competed for the "type A's" in NYC by other men. Your job and your real estate situation will immediately reveal your "rank" in the pecking order, and I'm guessing you come across as lacking social capital with the women you're flirting with. In college towns, it's a lot easier-- those superficial trappings reveal a lot less about you, and social capital is gained in other ways-- the guy who hangs out at the coffee shop all day and lives in a rundown apartment could be a brilliant physicist or slumming it while he tries to get his startup off the ground, either of which comes across as very attractive to others in town. Those attributes about yourself that carry a lot of social weight in your college town are far less valuable in NYC.
posted by deanc at 1:26 PM on June 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
Given that you live far away and have a difficult roommate, I'm guessing that you are the sort of person in NYC who is being out-competed for the "type A's" in NYC by other men. Your job and your real estate situation will immediately reveal your "rank" in the pecking order, and I'm guessing you come across as lacking social capital with the women you're flirting with. In college towns, it's a lot easier-- those superficial trappings reveal a lot less about you, and social capital is gained in other ways-- the guy who hangs out at the coffee shop all day and lives in a rundown apartment could be a brilliant physicist or slumming it while he tries to get his startup off the ground, either of which comes across as very attractive to others in town. Those attributes about yourself that carry a lot of social weight in your college town are far less valuable in NYC.
posted by deanc at 1:26 PM on June 5, 2013 [6 favorites]
While you want a woman who is interesting, fun, cool, and beautiful, the woman who fits that description wants a man who is tall, handsome, has a good job and has a nice apartment in the 212 area code. She measures up in your eyes, you don't measure up in her eyes.
Secondly, lots of people in New York are in crappy apartments with crappy roommates, so the privacy thing is a pretty big hurdle. We can't go to yours because you're in East Elbow, NJ living with a troll. We can't go to mine because I live in Bensonhurst with my parents. New York isn't like where you went to school. It's unlike any place ever, anywhere. People do go without random sex because the logistics are too hard.
People can't afford to casually date because there's the lost opportunity cost (If I'm tied up dating you, who am I missing?) So they hold off until a dating prospect comes along who ticks more of their boxes. So while you're boxes are: interesting, fun, cool, beautiful. A potential partner's boxes are: has a nice place in Manhattan, has a 6 figure job, in perfect physical shape. If you don't tick the boxes, it's not going to go beyond a nice conversation over an over-priced cocktail.
Of course you'd prefer to date the prettiest, smartest and most beautiful women in New York. And they'd prefer to date a guy who's making enough money to live alone in Chelsea.
Something's got to change. It can be your standards, or your zip code.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:36 PM on June 5, 2013 [21 favorites]
Secondly, lots of people in New York are in crappy apartments with crappy roommates, so the privacy thing is a pretty big hurdle. We can't go to yours because you're in East Elbow, NJ living with a troll. We can't go to mine because I live in Bensonhurst with my parents. New York isn't like where you went to school. It's unlike any place ever, anywhere. People do go without random sex because the logistics are too hard.
People can't afford to casually date because there's the lost opportunity cost (If I'm tied up dating you, who am I missing?) So they hold off until a dating prospect comes along who ticks more of their boxes. So while you're boxes are: interesting, fun, cool, beautiful. A potential partner's boxes are: has a nice place in Manhattan, has a 6 figure job, in perfect physical shape. If you don't tick the boxes, it's not going to go beyond a nice conversation over an over-priced cocktail.
Of course you'd prefer to date the prettiest, smartest and most beautiful women in New York. And they'd prefer to date a guy who's making enough money to live alone in Chelsea.
Something's got to change. It can be your standards, or your zip code.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:36 PM on June 5, 2013 [21 favorites]
Your refusal to engage with your housing situation is going to block a lot of opportunities for you. Get over it.
Everyone has lived with shitty roommates before. Just ignore the roommate.
I live well off the beaten path. It has not been an issue for me.
posted by phunniemee at 1:37 PM on June 5, 2013 [20 favorites]
Everyone has lived with shitty roommates before. Just ignore the roommate.
I live well off the beaten path. It has not been an issue for me.
"It's getting about the time I should feed my dog...gee, but I'm having a good time..."Come up with something, dude, jesus.
"Man, I'm hungry. Are you hungry? What is there around here, hmm.... You know, there's a great taqueria a block away from my place."
"Gosh, our aimless walking seems to have led directly to the train line that goes past my house."
posted by phunniemee at 1:37 PM on June 5, 2013 [20 favorites]
like_a_friend has it, absolutely.
One thing. You say:
I don't want to lower my standards. The people I was dating and flirting with in NC were interesting, fun, cool, beautiful people. I don't feel like I should have to sacrifice that in NY.
I don't think you should lower your standards if that means dating people you're not attracted to. But I can't really tell what you mean here, because the words you used can signify different crowds of people. If you mean that they were just, like, women who you found attractive inside and out and whose interests and personalities matched up with yours, no problem. NY has a lot of women, even a lot of women who moved there recently from other states, so you will eventually be able to find more like this. If you mean they were the "cool kids," if you will, the 1%, the trophy girlfriends, the women all the men in town wanted, and if you're going after that same segment of the population in NY...well, that's going to be harder. Like, maybe impossible. If that's what you meant you might need to, not lower your standards, but expand them.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:44 PM on June 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
One thing. You say:
I don't want to lower my standards. The people I was dating and flirting with in NC were interesting, fun, cool, beautiful people. I don't feel like I should have to sacrifice that in NY.
I don't think you should lower your standards if that means dating people you're not attracted to. But I can't really tell what you mean here, because the words you used can signify different crowds of people. If you mean that they were just, like, women who you found attractive inside and out and whose interests and personalities matched up with yours, no problem. NY has a lot of women, even a lot of women who moved there recently from other states, so you will eventually be able to find more like this. If you mean they were the "cool kids," if you will, the 1%, the trophy girlfriends, the women all the men in town wanted, and if you're going after that same segment of the population in NY...well, that's going to be harder. Like, maybe impossible. If that's what you meant you might need to, not lower your standards, but expand them.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:44 PM on June 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm attractive and tall, and I dress well, but I also have what others have described as "aspergers-like" qualities - abrupt movement, hyper-logical speech, bluntness
Talk less. Works wonders for me.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:09 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Talk less. Works wonders for me.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:09 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
...because my roommate is awful.
I have had that roommate, been that roommate, dated a person with that roommate, and dated a person who was that roommate. If there's one thing every New Yorker understands and learns to quickly ignore as best they can, it's awful roommates, theirs or others'.
posted by A god with hooves, a god with horns at 2:16 PM on June 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have had that roommate, been that roommate, dated a person with that roommate, and dated a person who was that roommate. If there's one thing every New Yorker understands and learns to quickly ignore as best they can, it's awful roommates, theirs or others'.
posted by A god with hooves, a god with horns at 2:16 PM on June 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Wow, Ruthless bunny has it for sure. There is a "best of craiglist" joke ad like this too- but from the females' point of view. "Looking for a 6ft Harvard man etc etc etc for average female who spends too much time on the computer etc".
Also, this from like_a_friend above:
Dating in NYC is like the Dating Hunger Games. I had zero sex--literally, none, nada, zilch--the entire half-decade that I lived there (and I was an attractive woman in her late teens and early 20s. In all other cities I have dated/been pursued by men a pretty normal amount.)
Hilarious, and true. It's like 4th grade when 3 popular girls and 3 popular boys kept trading off boyfriends and girlfriends. Life isn't like Sex and the City for most average-looking/average-financialled people just taking the train to work and back, doing the laundry and discovering new things on Netflix. Sadly.
And honestly, the 'can't go back to your place' is definitely a problem. You want hot, cool, girls, they want a guy with a normal/desirable living situation. Sorry, read Ruthless Bunny again, it's true.
posted by bquarters at 2:26 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, this from like_a_friend above:
Dating in NYC is like the Dating Hunger Games. I had zero sex--literally, none, nada, zilch--the entire half-decade that I lived there (and I was an attractive woman in her late teens and early 20s. In all other cities I have dated/been pursued by men a pretty normal amount.)
Hilarious, and true. It's like 4th grade when 3 popular girls and 3 popular boys kept trading off boyfriends and girlfriends. Life isn't like Sex and the City for most average-looking/average-financialled people just taking the train to work and back, doing the laundry and discovering new things on Netflix. Sadly.
And honestly, the 'can't go back to your place' is definitely a problem. You want hot, cool, girls, they want a guy with a normal/desirable living situation. Sorry, read Ruthless Bunny again, it's true.
posted by bquarters at 2:26 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
-Best shape of your life. Get in it. And I mean *best*.
-Srsly you gotta work it, professionally and personally speaking.
-Start working on those "Aspergers-like" qualities you mention; am I correct in inferring you are not actually non-neurotypical, but merely awkward in a similar way? In that case, you might strive to address it.
This is all GOOD advice, and I don't know anything about Hunger Games, but I know all kinds of people with social anxiety, weight problems, bad personalities, no jobs, etc etc who can still get action. I think relationships in NYC can be harder, but still not to the degree people seem to be claiming here.
I always see that sort of NYC is a dating desert and you have to be perfect to land anyone advice (which is kind of not really advice, unless it's meant to say "move") and I just want to say it's poisonous and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
If you're attractive and tall, as you say, you should be OK. Just keep talking to people and don't be hung up on your out of the way apartment. Agreed that women might want you to do the inviting.
posted by sweetkid at 2:30 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
-Srsly you gotta work it, professionally and personally speaking.
-Start working on those "Aspergers-like" qualities you mention; am I correct in inferring you are not actually non-neurotypical, but merely awkward in a similar way? In that case, you might strive to address it.
This is all GOOD advice, and I don't know anything about Hunger Games, but I know all kinds of people with social anxiety, weight problems, bad personalities, no jobs, etc etc who can still get action. I think relationships in NYC can be harder, but still not to the degree people seem to be claiming here.
I always see that sort of NYC is a dating desert and you have to be perfect to land anyone advice (which is kind of not really advice, unless it's meant to say "move") and I just want to say it's poisonous and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
If you're attractive and tall, as you say, you should be OK. Just keep talking to people and don't be hung up on your out of the way apartment. Agreed that women might want you to do the inviting.
posted by sweetkid at 2:30 PM on June 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, along with the frustrating dating scene, NYC is the perfect time to investigate therapy, (just in case any other aspects are getting in the way as well)...both are totally normalized here!
posted by bquarters at 2:30 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bquarters at 2:30 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is all GOOD advice, and I don't know anything about Hunger Games, but I know all kinds of people with social anxiety, weight problems, bad personalities, no jobs, etc etc who can still get action.
This goes back to what someone said above...if he is just looking for someone HE finds attractive and gets along with, that's one thing. If he is looking for someone conventionally and sort of globally desirable, like the 1% mentioned above, then it's going to be MUCH harder.
posted by bquarters at 2:32 PM on June 5, 2013
This goes back to what someone said above...if he is just looking for someone HE finds attractive and gets along with, that's one thing. If he is looking for someone conventionally and sort of globally desirable, like the 1% mentioned above, then it's going to be MUCH harder.
posted by bquarters at 2:32 PM on June 5, 2013
I, I mean a friend, somehow ended up not only going back to someone's place in Inwood from lower Manhattan but also paying for a goddamn cab (which wasn't really in my, I mean his, budget). Location is not an insurmountable obstacle, and living in inconvenient neighborhoods with people you don't necessarily like is a normal, if not desirable, living situation.
If you have been getting to make out with people as your post mentions, I am guessing your potential partners are reading your not bringing them back to your place as either a) letting them down nicely or b) a red flag that you live in like, a charnel pit made of bedbugs with masks of skin on the walls. Listen to phunniemee.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:33 PM on June 5, 2013
If you have been getting to make out with people as your post mentions, I am guessing your potential partners are reading your not bringing them back to your place as either a) letting them down nicely or b) a red flag that you live in like, a charnel pit made of bedbugs with masks of skin on the walls. Listen to phunniemee.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:33 PM on June 5, 2013
This goes back to what someone said above...if he is just looking for someone HE finds attractive and gets along with, that's one thing. If he is looking for someone conventionally and sort of globally desirable, like the 1% mentioned above, then it's going to be MUCH harder.
Yeah, ok gotcha. Yeah, if you want to be with the 1% you have to be that yourself.
posted by sweetkid at 2:37 PM on June 5, 2013
Yeah, ok gotcha. Yeah, if you want to be with the 1% you have to be that yourself.
posted by sweetkid at 2:37 PM on June 5, 2013
So while you're boxes are: interesting, fun, cool, beautiful. A potential partner's boxes are: has a nice place in Manhattan, has a 6 figure job, in perfect physical shape.
As someone who has been dating quite a lot in New York lately - you have to be interesting and fun. too. I feel like this comment is saying that women want a guy with a nice place and good job and don't worry about the personality - I don't know if I'm up to the OP's standards or whatever but I have a nice place and a good job. But I've turned plenty of people down for being boring, or just not a good fit personality wise.
posted by sweetkid at 2:58 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
As someone who has been dating quite a lot in New York lately - you have to be interesting and fun. too. I feel like this comment is saying that women want a guy with a nice place and good job and don't worry about the personality - I don't know if I'm up to the OP's standards or whatever but I have a nice place and a good job. But I've turned plenty of people down for being boring, or just not a good fit personality wise.
posted by sweetkid at 2:58 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
How old are you? In NC were you dating college girls? Those girls get out of college, go to a city and realize that men in their late 20s and early 30s are way more interesting, together, and rich than younger guys (or at least better at appearing to be those things). You can work out all you want and wear as many fancy jeans as you can but the 32 year old bartender who used to climb mountains professionally and makes his own hot sauce and speaks Turkish is usually going to be more interesting to women in your age range. Older people are just more interesting. A sad fact.
The answer is threefold:
1. Get more interesting. Go do cool stuff that you love. Play sitar. Travel. Whatever. In time you will either meet people through those pursuits who know ladies and can introduce you, OR you'll just get older and hence more interesting.
2. Date older women. The men their age are busy dating 24-year-olds who can't see through their hot sauce BS.
3. Get serious about OKC. Have more fun on dates. Stop being blunt. Be nice instead. Invite a woman over for movie night in your bedroom after two dates. Be a good dude. The end.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:14 PM on June 5, 2013
The answer is threefold:
1. Get more interesting. Go do cool stuff that you love. Play sitar. Travel. Whatever. In time you will either meet people through those pursuits who know ladies and can introduce you, OR you'll just get older and hence more interesting.
2. Date older women. The men their age are busy dating 24-year-olds who can't see through their hot sauce BS.
3. Get serious about OKC. Have more fun on dates. Stop being blunt. Be nice instead. Invite a woman over for movie night in your bedroom after two dates. Be a good dude. The end.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:14 PM on June 5, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks everyone, there's some very good stuff in here. I think the roommate point is valid; I should be inviting people over (although the noise level in my apartment, from my roommate - who, I should add, talks to himself loudly and frequently - and from the neighbors, is obscene). The self-confidence thing is tricky; I've found in many stages of my life that being self-confident presupposes actually having something to be confident about. I left the path I was training for - academia, 5 years into a Ph.D. - and have started over with the intention of becoming a serious writer. So certain things you mention - multiple languages, some credentials, intelligence - I'm good on. Other things - a stable career, the body of a male model (I'm slender, not toned), confidence/calmness - not so much.
posted by nob'dy at 5:03 PM on June 5, 2013
posted by nob'dy at 5:03 PM on June 5, 2013
you're in the big city now. NY isn't the South. it's good to adjust your expectations accordingly. that said, a couple of big turnoffs are desperation and treating women like objects.
It's my longest period without sex in my adult life and it's beginning to consume me in a very strong way. I have to take Klonopin just to stem the anxiety from going this long without sex.
yeah, get some therapy for this. NY is psychotherapy mecca so finding someone shouldn't be difficult. maybe work out to relieve some of your anxiety too. take a zumba class and you'll meet lots of women. or yoga, tons of attractive women do yoga. really though, just pursue things you are naturally interested in to meet like-minded people.
fyi: if you have a southern accent not all women are going to find that attractive. sorry, no offense meant.
posted by wildflower at 5:12 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's my longest period without sex in my adult life and it's beginning to consume me in a very strong way. I have to take Klonopin just to stem the anxiety from going this long without sex.
yeah, get some therapy for this. NY is psychotherapy mecca so finding someone shouldn't be difficult. maybe work out to relieve some of your anxiety too. take a zumba class and you'll meet lots of women. or yoga, tons of attractive women do yoga. really though, just pursue things you are naturally interested in to meet like-minded people.
fyi: if you have a southern accent not all women are going to find that attractive. sorry, no offense meant.
posted by wildflower at 5:12 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dates want to see your place also because it is kind of proof that you don't live with your parents. Sure, we get it, your room-mate's a troll. That means you have a room-mate! You pass muster as a functioning adult. Put the "my place" option on the table early on, or try a tactic like phunniemee's, putting it on the table but not actually saying it -- it implies you have a place.
A lot of other things can be overlooked: being blunt, not perfectly toned, maybe not being the life of the party, sure, there's someone for everyone, unless you're over 18 and live with your parents.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:20 PM on June 5, 2013
A lot of other things can be overlooked: being blunt, not perfectly toned, maybe not being the life of the party, sure, there's someone for everyone, unless you're over 18 and live with your parents.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:20 PM on June 5, 2013
I lived and dated in NY for several years, and had a cohort of (interesting, fun, cool, beautiful) female friends who did the same. We all dated/hooked up with/had relationships with men who fell along all possible spectrums of looks, money, confidence, and zipcode. People who are saying you have to live in Manhattan and be fit to get laid are obviously not speaking for all approximately 4 million women in the city.
If indeed you have one problem that is alienating potential partners, it is likely the intensity with which you want to break your dry spell. There is almost nothing that makes me more guarded and put off than meeting somebody for the first or second time who clearly *wants* something from me, and I think I am not alone in that.
People who want things -- very reasonable things, like sex, relationships, and jobs -- often get caught in a vicious circle where the more they want that thing, the more desperate they get, and the more they put out a vibe of yearning that makes other people turn away from them.
Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to magically just stop wanting something, but you probably can disentangle the actual desire you have for sex and/or a relationship from the significance you've invested in getting those things. You're going through a dry spell -- that's all. It doesn't have to do with New York, your whole life in NY won't be like this, and there's nothing about you that was good enough in NC but not good enough in NY. The more you can believe this, the easier the wait will be until your dry spell ends, which I have every confidence it will.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 8:09 PM on June 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
If indeed you have one problem that is alienating potential partners, it is likely the intensity with which you want to break your dry spell. There is almost nothing that makes me more guarded and put off than meeting somebody for the first or second time who clearly *wants* something from me, and I think I am not alone in that.
People who want things -- very reasonable things, like sex, relationships, and jobs -- often get caught in a vicious circle where the more they want that thing, the more desperate they get, and the more they put out a vibe of yearning that makes other people turn away from them.
Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to magically just stop wanting something, but you probably can disentangle the actual desire you have for sex and/or a relationship from the significance you've invested in getting those things. You're going through a dry spell -- that's all. It doesn't have to do with New York, your whole life in NY won't be like this, and there's nothing about you that was good enough in NC but not good enough in NY. The more you can believe this, the easier the wait will be until your dry spell ends, which I have every confidence it will.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 8:09 PM on June 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Can you move? I was stuck in a crappy houseshare and it was hard enough spending time there with my long-term partner - I can't imagine ever inviting a hook-up or a potential boyfriend back there as it was just very stifling with a housemate permanently installed in the living-room working from home. It began to feel like I was taking my boyfriend back to my parents' or uncle's place.
Dates will probably overlook crappy room-mates, as everyone has had one, and most people have probably been one, but I can see how it would be horribly offputting for you which probably doesn't help your anxiety on where to take things next.
posted by mippy at 3:58 AM on June 6, 2013
Dates will probably overlook crappy room-mates, as everyone has had one, and most people have probably been one, but I can see how it would be horribly offputting for you which probably doesn't help your anxiety on where to take things next.
posted by mippy at 3:58 AM on June 6, 2013
One small thing that you could modify that comes across in your responses (no idea if you are doing this when you meet people, but if you have/had depression and an anxiety disorder, you may) is how you present yourself.
For example, you mention:
The self-confidence thing is tricky; I've found in many stages of my life that being self-confident presupposes actually having something to be confident about. I left the path I was training for - academia, 5 years into a Ph.D. - and have started over with the intention of becoming a serious writer.
If you state it like this to people that you meet, it may come across as fail goal 1 and may or may not be serious about goal 2. Can't tell if you are or are not serious, it does not matter to me, but lots of people say that they have a goal and never take a single step in that direction...not to say you do this.
Did you get a terminal masters degree after being in the program for 5 years? Were you passionate about the field that you studied? Change how you present yourself. So instead of "I dropped out of a PhD program and am now pursuing my dream"- "I am passionate about field X, have a masters degree in it, and am now [list of indicators that you are taking steps towards your new goal, whatever those are]"
Also, if your goal is to meet "creative professionals (or at least aspiring creative people) " bars and OKC may not be the best place for you to meet these people. Do take a look at meetup. There are some for creatives and there are some where you get together and compare your already finished project. This would help you meet people who are not only creative, but do more than present themselves as such. You can decide from there if these people meet the other things on your list, but the probability of meeting people with this interest or goal is higher than meeting a random person at a bar.
posted by Wolfster at 9:28 AM on June 6, 2013
For example, you mention:
The self-confidence thing is tricky; I've found in many stages of my life that being self-confident presupposes actually having something to be confident about. I left the path I was training for - academia, 5 years into a Ph.D. - and have started over with the intention of becoming a serious writer.
If you state it like this to people that you meet, it may come across as fail goal 1 and may or may not be serious about goal 2. Can't tell if you are or are not serious, it does not matter to me, but lots of people say that they have a goal and never take a single step in that direction...not to say you do this.
Did you get a terminal masters degree after being in the program for 5 years? Were you passionate about the field that you studied? Change how you present yourself. So instead of "I dropped out of a PhD program and am now pursuing my dream"- "I am passionate about field X, have a masters degree in it, and am now [list of indicators that you are taking steps towards your new goal, whatever those are]"
Also, if your goal is to meet "creative professionals (or at least aspiring creative people) " bars and OKC may not be the best place for you to meet these people. Do take a look at meetup. There are some for creatives and there are some where you get together and compare your already finished project. This would help you meet people who are not only creative, but do more than present themselves as such. You can decide from there if these people meet the other things on your list, but the probability of meeting people with this interest or goal is higher than meeting a random person at a bar.
posted by Wolfster at 9:28 AM on June 6, 2013
Just as a quick bt dubs, being skinny means it should be easy-ish to get muscle definition with a sane lifting program, if not huge fuck off muscles (for which you would need to eat all the food). I recommend it.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2013
posted by en forme de poire at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2013
Everybody has shared a few words of wisdom. As a single, older NYC male, I relate to the challenges of finding a woman to date and to maybe love (though the scene at my age is different.)
But, wow, there can be so much pressure! Get in shape! Get your degree! Start psychotherapy! Get plastic surgery! UP YOUR GAME!!
Maybe you don't need to do a single thing except learn how to appreciat yourself fully for exactly who you are right now. Then, when you least expect it, bang....there she will be.
posted by Therapist in NYC at 9:09 AM on June 8, 2013
But, wow, there can be so much pressure! Get in shape! Get your degree! Start psychotherapy! Get plastic surgery! UP YOUR GAME!!
Maybe you don't need to do a single thing except learn how to appreciat yourself fully for exactly who you are right now. Then, when you least expect it, bang....there she will be.
posted by Therapist in NYC at 9:09 AM on June 8, 2013
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What are your standards?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:04 PM on June 5, 2013