How to Move to Spain for six months
May 19, 2013 12:15 PM Subscribe
I'm a 31 yo male in the US, have a work from home job with a stable legitimate US company and can basically work from any where I can find an internet connection. I would love to learn spanish.
I took spanish in high school for 4 years, and though I can't speak it I think with some additional studying and being immersed in a spanish speaking country I could pick it up pretty quickly. I have no kids, no girlfriend, no lease, soon will have no car payment, and basically I'm completely free of any obligations here in the states. After insurance and taxes I take home $1600 a month. I have no friends or relatives in Spain. I saw this question but it's a bit dated http://ask.metafilter.com/81598/How-can-I-move-to-Spain-for-a-couple-of-years What I need to know: Is it legal to stay in Spain for 6 months? What city should I move to and what neighborhood? (likely would not have a car, so preferably somewhere urban where I will not need one) Can I afford to live there? Is there any paper work I would need other than a passport? Where can I stay? Is it possible to rent an apartment there not being a citizen? If it is possible how would I go about renting that apartment and getting utilities and internet in my name? I have medical insurance in the US through my employer and have no medical needs, but if an emergency were to happen how would I handle that (or how would Spanish authorities handle me in case I was unconscious)? What other considerations should I make? I'm going to be researching things more but would like to get some ideas, and maybe links to resources that would be helpful. Thanks!
I took spanish in high school for 4 years, and though I can't speak it I think with some additional studying and being immersed in a spanish speaking country I could pick it up pretty quickly. I have no kids, no girlfriend, no lease, soon will have no car payment, and basically I'm completely free of any obligations here in the states. After insurance and taxes I take home $1600 a month. I have no friends or relatives in Spain. I saw this question but it's a bit dated http://ask.metafilter.com/81598/How-can-I-move-to-Spain-for-a-couple-of-years What I need to know: Is it legal to stay in Spain for 6 months? What city should I move to and what neighborhood? (likely would not have a car, so preferably somewhere urban where I will not need one) Can I afford to live there? Is there any paper work I would need other than a passport? Where can I stay? Is it possible to rent an apartment there not being a citizen? If it is possible how would I go about renting that apartment and getting utilities and internet in my name? I have medical insurance in the US through my employer and have no medical needs, but if an emergency were to happen how would I handle that (or how would Spanish authorities handle me in case I was unconscious)? What other considerations should I make? I'm going to be researching things more but would like to get some ideas, and maybe links to resources that would be helpful. Thanks!
If you were a legitimate tourist, which you're not, you wouldn't be able to stay for longer than 90 days without a visa.
Spain, like most European countries (and most of the developed world), is not somewhere you can just pick up and relocate to because you can afford it. You would most definitely need a visa, although whether one is available to you, given your plan, is another matter. You need to research Spain's visa law.
You may find the requirements for a non-tourist visa less strict in Spanish-speaking South America.
posted by caek at 12:34 PM on May 19, 2013
Spain, like most European countries (and most of the developed world), is not somewhere you can just pick up and relocate to because you can afford it. You would most definitely need a visa, although whether one is available to you, given your plan, is another matter. You need to research Spain's visa law.
You may find the requirements for a non-tourist visa less strict in Spanish-speaking South America.
posted by caek at 12:34 PM on May 19, 2013
Spain is a Schengen country, so technically, as a non-EU person, you can only remain in Spain or indeed the entire Schengen region for three months at a time.
HOWEVER, as of a few years ago, the rules were different if you were enrolled in a language school and took a few classes there. You could apply for a student visa.
Otherwise, the rules for staying in Spain if you aren't an EU citizen are fairly complex and require you to show that you have a lot of money (like, earning something on the order of $100,000/year if I remember correctly).
The reason I know this stuff is because while doing some telecommuting work for a US company, I spent three months hanging out in Spain a few years ago. I spent one month each in a different area. I contacted people who did self-catering holiday rentals--in two cases, city apartments and one a rural cottage--and asked for a discount for a long-term stay in the off-season. They were all happy to do so at a huge discount because they were just happy to be earning some income into the off-season. This is the best way for someone in your circumstances to rent a place. Utilities may be covered or they may want you to pay them, you can negotiate this.
I'd suggest looking into student visa possibilities and if that doesn't work for you, go for three months instead of six. It's definitely do-able, and I adored Spain!
In a rush now, but feel free to memail me for more details.
posted by tiger tiger at 12:39 PM on May 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
HOWEVER, as of a few years ago, the rules were different if you were enrolled in a language school and took a few classes there. You could apply for a student visa.
Otherwise, the rules for staying in Spain if you aren't an EU citizen are fairly complex and require you to show that you have a lot of money (like, earning something on the order of $100,000/year if I remember correctly).
The reason I know this stuff is because while doing some telecommuting work for a US company, I spent three months hanging out in Spain a few years ago. I spent one month each in a different area. I contacted people who did self-catering holiday rentals--in two cases, city apartments and one a rural cottage--and asked for a discount for a long-term stay in the off-season. They were all happy to do so at a huge discount because they were just happy to be earning some income into the off-season. This is the best way for someone in your circumstances to rent a place. Utilities may be covered or they may want you to pay them, you can negotiate this.
I'd suggest looking into student visa possibilities and if that doesn't work for you, go for three months instead of six. It's definitely do-able, and I adored Spain!
In a rush now, but feel free to memail me for more details.
posted by tiger tiger at 12:39 PM on May 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
US citizens may spend up to 90 days in Spain while conducting business, as well as being a tourist. If you want to stay longer, the process is much more involved. Enrolling in a language school is probably your best option in that case.
posted by brianogilvie at 1:21 PM on May 19, 2013
posted by brianogilvie at 1:21 PM on May 19, 2013
When I spent a semester in Europe in 2007 without a student visa, my college was getting around the 90 day rule by taking us out of the Schengen region to get our passports stamped once every 90 days.
I have no idea about the legality of this technique, or how the rules are different if you're working for a US company, but London is outside the Schengen region and is a quick and inexpensive flight from Barcelona. YMMV.
posted by justjess at 1:55 PM on May 19, 2013
I have no idea about the legality of this technique, or how the rules are different if you're working for a US company, but London is outside the Schengen region and is a quick and inexpensive flight from Barcelona. YMMV.
posted by justjess at 1:55 PM on May 19, 2013
If you just want to learn Spanish, it's a hell of a lot easier to do this in a place like Nicaragua, Costa Rica or Panama, also a lot cheaper to live in if you're telecommuting. The visas are for three months, but you can hop across any border down there and come back a few days later to reset it. And the the Internet isn't as bad down there as you probably think.
posted by empath at 2:31 PM on May 19, 2013
posted by empath at 2:31 PM on May 19, 2013
I have no idea about the legality of this technique
The standard Schengen visitor "visa" allows a stay of 90 days in any 180-day period, so unless you were benefitting from special reciprocal arrangements, that was a gamble (though perhaps one done with a nod and a wink).
As empath says, you'll have an easier time with the bureaucracy -- and your money will go further -- in the Spanish-speaking Americas.
posted by holgate at 2:44 PM on May 19, 2013
The standard Schengen visitor "visa" allows a stay of 90 days in any 180-day period, so unless you were benefitting from special reciprocal arrangements, that was a gamble (though perhaps one done with a nod and a wink).
As empath says, you'll have an easier time with the bureaucracy -- and your money will go further -- in the Spanish-speaking Americas.
posted by holgate at 2:44 PM on May 19, 2013
Can I afford to live there?
Depends, but if you are used to living in a large American city, yes.
Is there any paper work I would need other than a passport?
Bank statement and paychecks for renting.
Where can I stay? Is it possible to rent an apartment there not being a citizen?
You could definitely sublet if you were staying for less than the 90 days. Maybe it would be good to look at online sites and arrange something before going. I am friends with a couple who did this for vacation in various European cities and enjoyed it.
I also knew someone in Barcelona living in a hostel for 3 months (did not have car, used public transportation, which it seems it would be easy to do in major cities). Housing was tight there at the time. It wasn't the most comfortable arrangement, but it seemed to work for her as she searched for an apartment she liked.
posted by kettleoffish at 4:05 PM on May 19, 2013
Depends, but if you are used to living in a large American city, yes.
Is there any paper work I would need other than a passport?
Bank statement and paychecks for renting.
Where can I stay? Is it possible to rent an apartment there not being a citizen?
You could definitely sublet if you were staying for less than the 90 days. Maybe it would be good to look at online sites and arrange something before going. I am friends with a couple who did this for vacation in various European cities and enjoyed it.
I also knew someone in Barcelona living in a hostel for 3 months (did not have car, used public transportation, which it seems it would be easy to do in major cities). Housing was tight there at the time. It wasn't the most comfortable arrangement, but it seemed to work for her as she searched for an apartment she liked.
posted by kettleoffish at 4:05 PM on May 19, 2013
1/ Is it legal to stay in Spain for 6 months?
Not without enrolling in a language school, I believe as a full-time student. There is a requirement for a minimum number of hours a week; I can't remember how many. Note that there is no requirement that you attend the language school, merely that you be enrolled.
Alternatively, exit the Schengen area and re-enter. Alternatively, arrive and get your 90 day visa and simply overstay it. (You are not the droids Spanish INS is looking for and they are not going to bar your exit.)
2/ What city should I move to and what neighborhood? (likely would not have a car, so preferably somewhere urban where I will not need one)
Barcelona or Madrid. Since you've said nothing about your preferences other than transport, providing advice on specific neighbourhoods.
3/ Can I afford to live there?
I have no idea, you've provided no financial information at all. But probably, yes?
4/ Is there any paper work I would need other than a passport?
Yes if you did it legally as a student; no if you did it as a tourist.
5/ Where can I stay? Is it possible to rent an apartment there not being a citizen? If it is possible how would I go about renting that apartment and getting utilities and internet in my name?
A six month lease is going to be a problem as is not having a Spanish bank account which is going to be hard to acquire. I would circumvent this by browsing Air BnB for apartments with WiFi and contacting them individually to find out if they'd do a deal for a 6 month rental. No lease, no internet and no utilities to deal with.
6/ I have medical insurance in the US through my employer and have no medical needs, but if an emergency were to happen how would I handle that (or how would Spanish authorities handle me in case I was unconscious)?
You should get travel insurance, which is pretty cheap, but Spain is a civilized country and you will be treated at an emergency room at a shockingly low cost.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:16 PM on May 19, 2013
Not without enrolling in a language school, I believe as a full-time student. There is a requirement for a minimum number of hours a week; I can't remember how many. Note that there is no requirement that you attend the language school, merely that you be enrolled.
Alternatively, exit the Schengen area and re-enter. Alternatively, arrive and get your 90 day visa and simply overstay it. (You are not the droids Spanish INS is looking for and they are not going to bar your exit.)
2/ What city should I move to and what neighborhood? (likely would not have a car, so preferably somewhere urban where I will not need one)
Barcelona or Madrid. Since you've said nothing about your preferences other than transport, providing advice on specific neighbourhoods.
3/ Can I afford to live there?
I have no idea, you've provided no financial information at all. But probably, yes?
4/ Is there any paper work I would need other than a passport?
Yes if you did it legally as a student; no if you did it as a tourist.
5/ Where can I stay? Is it possible to rent an apartment there not being a citizen? If it is possible how would I go about renting that apartment and getting utilities and internet in my name?
A six month lease is going to be a problem as is not having a Spanish bank account which is going to be hard to acquire. I would circumvent this by browsing Air BnB for apartments with WiFi and contacting them individually to find out if they'd do a deal for a 6 month rental. No lease, no internet and no utilities to deal with.
6/ I have medical insurance in the US through my employer and have no medical needs, but if an emergency were to happen how would I handle that (or how would Spanish authorities handle me in case I was unconscious)?
You should get travel insurance, which is pretty cheap, but Spain is a civilized country and you will be treated at an emergency room at a shockingly low cost.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:16 PM on May 19, 2013
Hi there,
I live in Spain, so am speaking from first hand experience. It was a headache to figure out a way to live here legally. I did it for years on a student visa that I got through the auxiliares de conversacion program and finally became pareja de hecho (like a civil union) with my Spanish S.O. to get residency. It's definitely not that easy to get papers.
You can come for 90 days legally. You can probably overstay your welcome and there is little likelihood you will run into problems, but of course it is a big risk and comes with consequences. Lots of people do it though.
If you're not willing to take that risk, get a student visa, or come for just three months.
I recommend living in a smaller city or big town. Save Barcelona, Seville and Madrid for visits, not only are they much more expensive but they are filled with other Americans and you'll find it much more challenging to meet Spaniards and practice the language.
Feel free to memail with more questions.
posted by maca at 12:57 AM on May 20, 2013
I live in Spain, so am speaking from first hand experience. It was a headache to figure out a way to live here legally. I did it for years on a student visa that I got through the auxiliares de conversacion program and finally became pareja de hecho (like a civil union) with my Spanish S.O. to get residency. It's definitely not that easy to get papers.
You can come for 90 days legally. You can probably overstay your welcome and there is little likelihood you will run into problems, but of course it is a big risk and comes with consequences. Lots of people do it though.
If you're not willing to take that risk, get a student visa, or come for just three months.
I recommend living in a smaller city or big town. Save Barcelona, Seville and Madrid for visits, not only are they much more expensive but they are filled with other Americans and you'll find it much more challenging to meet Spaniards and practice the language.
Feel free to memail with more questions.
posted by maca at 12:57 AM on May 20, 2013
Just wanted to add, I know people are saying you may be able to overstay your 90 days without consequences--I'm too paranoid to ever try something like that, plus the consequences of not being able to return to the EU or Spain make it not worthwhile to me, so I'd never advise anyone try--but if you do go this route, don't leave the country by plane. When I left Spain by plane, everyone's passports were carefully checked on the way out. Leaving the country was actually a lot more rigorous than entering.
Also, you definitely can't leave and "reset" your Schengen by just popping to another country--as holgate points out, it's 90 days out of every 180.
You can definitely afford to live there for a few months. I found my expenses including housing cheaper than living in Portland, Oregon.
posted by tiger tiger at 4:37 AM on May 20, 2013
Also, you definitely can't leave and "reset" your Schengen by just popping to another country--as holgate points out, it's 90 days out of every 180.
You can definitely afford to live there for a few months. I found my expenses including housing cheaper than living in Portland, Oregon.
posted by tiger tiger at 4:37 AM on May 20, 2013
If the goal is to mainly learn Spanish, you don't have to worry about visas or length of stay in the cities of the US where Spanish is predominantly spoken. I wasn't even trying and my high school Spanish improved while living on a suburban street in Redwood City, California (near the Little Mexico area). So why not go to Miami or southern California (or maybe someone can suggest somewhere better/less expensive) for a while, get your Spanish up to a level you like, then visit Spain or elsewhere as a sort of reward /90-day final immersion experience?
posted by mikepop at 5:43 AM on May 20, 2013
posted by mikepop at 5:43 AM on May 20, 2013
The EU is a collection of bureaucracies and the trick to live there in a legal manner is to find the simplest entry point for you and move from there. Once you are a resident of a EU country, as long as you can proof you have a means to support yourself, moving to another EU country becomes a matter of one country asking the other to let you live there, rather than you asking. There is a significant difference between the two.
As an American self-employed individual, you can obtain a 1-year Dutch residence permit by setting up a company (minimum investment is the price of 2 computers and a decent camera) under the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.
http://www.expatlaw.nl/dutch_american_friendship_treaty.htm
Once a legal resident in the Netherlands under that treaty, enjoy the surroundings while you find the best way to move to Spain. You could certainly go there on a "working vacation" right away - your mandatory Dutch health insurance will cover you anywhere in the EU and, provided you follow some basic requirements, the Dutch are not going to care where your tax money came from.
I am Spanish living in Amsterdam and have used a variation of the above, as have several of my (non-Spanish) acquaintances. However, your income might be a problem, as realistically it is a bit limited. With that kind of money, Madrid and Barcelona would be off my list - there are a ton of alternatives where it would go a longer way. Ibiza or Menorca, for starters.
As others have pointed out, many places in South America might be much more attractive options for a person in your shoes. Spain is going down the drain at the moment.
posted by magullo at 11:51 AM on May 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
As an American self-employed individual, you can obtain a 1-year Dutch residence permit by setting up a company (minimum investment is the price of 2 computers and a decent camera) under the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.
http://www.expatlaw.nl/dutch_american_friendship_treaty.htm
Once a legal resident in the Netherlands under that treaty, enjoy the surroundings while you find the best way to move to Spain. You could certainly go there on a "working vacation" right away - your mandatory Dutch health insurance will cover you anywhere in the EU and, provided you follow some basic requirements, the Dutch are not going to care where your tax money came from.
I am Spanish living in Amsterdam and have used a variation of the above, as have several of my (non-Spanish) acquaintances. However, your income might be a problem, as realistically it is a bit limited. With that kind of money, Madrid and Barcelona would be off my list - there are a ton of alternatives where it would go a longer way. Ibiza or Menorca, for starters.
As others have pointed out, many places in South America might be much more attractive options for a person in your shoes. Spain is going down the drain at the moment.
posted by magullo at 11:51 AM on May 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
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Unless there is something you're not telling us, it is almost definitely not permitted for you to spend 6 months in Spain, working for a US company and getting a US paycheck, effectively being on a tourist visa.
posted by knile at 12:23 PM on May 19, 2013