Advice on how to deal with abusive ex and his girlfriend
April 1, 2013 4:03 AM Subscribe
The 16 yo daughter of a lady I am good friends with was contacted after an argument by the fiance of her ex-husband regarding how to deal with a borderline abusive situation at home. The discussion evidently even went to far as to see if the daughter could advise her whether to go to a hotel or home to sleep with him. My friend feels this very inappropriate. Is it a big deal? She is very upset and is contemplating a measured response and future plan to stop this from happening ever again. She would like to do so without alienating her daughter (who seems to enjoy the attention) or poisoning the future relationship with her daughters dad and soon to be stepmom. Her and I both agree that she is probably on track to become another abused spouse and ought to leave the relationship - but right now that will not happen.
I know the mefi crowd is sensitive, smart, and probably a good place to get some input, any thoughts?
Response by poster: OR - that is certainly a good question!
posted by sfts2 at 4:28 AM on April 1, 2013
posted by sfts2 at 4:28 AM on April 1, 2013
I agree with your friend that this was inappropriate. Kids (even near-adult or young adult ones) do not need to know the gory details of parent-level relationship difficulties, and it's doubly appalling that this is a not-yet-even-stepparent who appears to be looking for support from a teen against her own dad.
I think the right thing for your friend to do is to contact the perhaps-future-stepmom and let her know that this kind of discussion with the 16-yo is wildly inappropriate. I'd also suggest that the dad be contacted and told that the dirty laundry between him and his fiance needs to stay in their house.
Unfortunately, I don't know if there's much she can do to stop this from happening again. Inappropriate people gonna inappropriate. She can fire a warning shot over the bow, sure. But at 16 years old, her daughter needs to start taking over the reins of deciding how she is going to establish boundaries with her parents and their partners. If the daughter were interested in backing away from that relationship to avoid Teh Dramaz, it'd be one thing. But it sounds like the daughter is not interested in cutting off contact right now.
One possible dynamic: I don't know how the daughter's relationship is with her dad, or how much she knows about mom/dad's problems. But it may be that the girl feels strongly allied with mom against dad. This may not be readily apparent both because it could be masked under a lot of superficial mom/daughter teen tension and it may not be well understood by the daughter herself. Now with her dad's fiance casting herself in the role of dad's victim, there may be a bit of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" going on--in other words, the fiance is now another victim of dad/ally just like mom and daughter.
posted by drlith at 4:32 AM on April 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think the right thing for your friend to do is to contact the perhaps-future-stepmom and let her know that this kind of discussion with the 16-yo is wildly inappropriate. I'd also suggest that the dad be contacted and told that the dirty laundry between him and his fiance needs to stay in their house.
Unfortunately, I don't know if there's much she can do to stop this from happening again. Inappropriate people gonna inappropriate. She can fire a warning shot over the bow, sure. But at 16 years old, her daughter needs to start taking over the reins of deciding how she is going to establish boundaries with her parents and their partners. If the daughter were interested in backing away from that relationship to avoid Teh Dramaz, it'd be one thing. But it sounds like the daughter is not interested in cutting off contact right now.
One possible dynamic: I don't know how the daughter's relationship is with her dad, or how much she knows about mom/dad's problems. But it may be that the girl feels strongly allied with mom against dad. This may not be readily apparent both because it could be masked under a lot of superficial mom/daughter teen tension and it may not be well understood by the daughter herself. Now with her dad's fiance casting herself in the role of dad's victim, there may be a bit of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" going on--in other words, the fiance is now another victim of dad/ally just like mom and daughter.
posted by drlith at 4:32 AM on April 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
My guess is that the fiancee approached the daughter because they already have a relationship, and the daughter has known the dad for a long time. Maybe your friend rarely speaks to the fiancee directly due to animosity with the ex? Doesn't change the fact that it was inappropriate, but that seems like a plausible explanation to me.
Anyhow, maybe it would help for your friend to advise her daughter that these are not problems she can solve, and that she should be careful about how involved she gets. Perhaps also set the daughter up with some in-emergency-break-glass resources, i.e. shelter phone numbers. But mostly I'd tell her to be careful, and invite her to talk about it with her mom whenever she might want to.
posted by jon1270 at 4:40 AM on April 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Anyhow, maybe it would help for your friend to advise her daughter that these are not problems she can solve, and that she should be careful about how involved she gets. Perhaps also set the daughter up with some in-emergency-break-glass resources, i.e. shelter phone numbers. But mostly I'd tell her to be careful, and invite her to talk about it with her mom whenever she might want to.
posted by jon1270 at 4:40 AM on April 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Heck yeah, this is a big deal and your friend has her work cut out for her. This new potential stepmother has serious boundary issues, period. But I doubt there's much your friend can do to stop her. If the fiancee thinks this type of thing is okay, she's going to probably think a whole lot of other inappropriate stuff is also fine. So I don't think talking to her will help. It may not hurt to let the woman know that it's not okay, but I wouldn't expect her to see the error of her ways and to stop.
Unfortunately, the only real control your friend has is to talk to her daughter (who may on some level enjoy getting to play a part in the story but is also mortified to be hearing this) about how completely inappropriate this woman is.
It'll be good training for the rest of her life when she has to deal with oversharers and establishing boundaries. Nobody has the right to make this kid feel uncomfortable and at 16, she's old enough to establish some control with this woman.
posted by kinetic at 4:53 AM on April 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, the only real control your friend has is to talk to her daughter (who may on some level enjoy getting to play a part in the story but is also mortified to be hearing this) about how completely inappropriate this woman is.
It'll be good training for the rest of her life when she has to deal with oversharers and establishing boundaries. Nobody has the right to make this kid feel uncomfortable and at 16, she's old enough to establish some control with this woman.
posted by kinetic at 4:53 AM on April 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yes, exactly what kinetic said. This isn't the first time she will need to deal with drama like this and giving her the skills to deal with it is the way to go.
The mom should sit down with the girl and talk about boundaries out in the open.
posted by dawkins_7 at 5:10 AM on April 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
The mom should sit down with the girl and talk about boundaries out in the open.
posted by dawkins_7 at 5:10 AM on April 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
I want to clarify that your friend (the mom) should not in any way appear to be denigrating the fiancee, so no, she shouldn't tell her daughter that the woman is being inappropriate. That could also end up backfiring with some variation of the mom is jealous of the new fiancee and is slagging her.
It's a horrible situation for everyone and yes, the fiancee clearly needs help.
But it's not the daughter's job to provide help and counseling in this situation.
Your friend has a difficult tightrope to balance genuine compassion for the suffering of others and for teaching her daughter about establishing appropriate boundaries.
So maybe she should have that type of conversation with her daughter...not to say the fiancee is inappropriate but to couch it more in terms of how to deal with that type of information; how to feel compassino and to also get out of that oversharing situation.
But definitely do not slag the stepmom to be.
posted by kinetic at 5:13 AM on April 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's a horrible situation for everyone and yes, the fiancee clearly needs help.
But it's not the daughter's job to provide help and counseling in this situation.
Your friend has a difficult tightrope to balance genuine compassion for the suffering of others and for teaching her daughter about establishing appropriate boundaries.
So maybe she should have that type of conversation with her daughter...not to say the fiancee is inappropriate but to couch it more in terms of how to deal with that type of information; how to feel compassino and to also get out of that oversharing situation.
But definitely do not slag the stepmom to be.
posted by kinetic at 5:13 AM on April 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
Definitely agree that this is a tough situation. I agree with the idea of talking to the daughter about how to deal with these situations, and maybe helping her find a number for a counseling service that might help the stepmom. She should also not hesitate to tell the stepmom "look, this is my dad you are talking about, and I have a lot of sympathy for you, but I am just not the person to help you with it." If the fiancee doesn't get the hint, the mom could talk to her directly, and pass on the information about counseling services in as matter-of-fact a way as she can. (Getting more involved than that would be a bad idea for obvious reasons.)
One thing I would hesitate to do is discuss any of this with the dad. If he is truly abusive towards his fiancee, doing so could put her in more danger. Your friend does not need that on her head.
posted by rpfields at 6:00 AM on April 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
One thing I would hesitate to do is discuss any of this with the dad. If he is truly abusive towards his fiancee, doing so could put her in more danger. Your friend does not need that on her head.
posted by rpfields at 6:00 AM on April 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have a similar story, except it was the stepdaughters talking to my daughters (all teenagers at the time, who had been friends before the divorce but after my ex moved in with the new family, not so much), and that was a real problem for a while.
The stepdaughters would ask my kids if their dad had done X, Y, and Z when he lived with us, and my kids learned pretty quickly to end that conversation by stopping the stepdaughters with, "I don't want to talk about my dad, sorry."
posted by kinetic at 8:47 AM on April 1, 2013
The stepdaughters would ask my kids if their dad had done X, Y, and Z when he lived with us, and my kids learned pretty quickly to end that conversation by stopping the stepdaughters with, "I don't want to talk about my dad, sorry."
posted by kinetic at 8:47 AM on April 1, 2013
The Mom and the 16-year old need to discuss this. You, don't really get a say.
Here's a script for mom, "Eloise, I know you enjoy talking with Barbara, and that you feel important when she turns to you for advice. I'm concerned because I believe that it's inappropriate for Barbara to turn to you for advice about your Dad. What do YOU think about this?"
Then the daughter can say what she thinks. Then the Mom can say, "You're a very bright and intelligent young lady, and I can see why Barbara would want to talk to you, but can you understand why I don't think it's a good idea for her to be sharing these details about her relationship with your Dad, with you?"
"I think you should have a stock phrase that you should use with Barbara, when she strays into an area where you don't feel comfortable discussing a topic with her, let's brainstorm one, shall we?"
Then Mom can suggest, "I don't feel comfortable discussing your relationship issues with my Dad with you." Or, "Technically, I'm still a kid, and this is really not anything I have experience with." Or, "I'm not really the right person to discuss that with."
If the Daughter enjoys being in the middle of the DRAMAZ, then the Mom may need to go directly to the Fiance. "Barbara, I know that you and Eloise are forming a relationship, and I think that's swell, but I'm really concerned when you call her to discuss abuse you're getting from my Ex. No one commisserates about that more than I do, but it's inappropriate to bring her into your relationship problems. We've just recently removed ourselves from that situation, and I want Eloise to feel safe and loved in her current household. I'm afraid that the fact that you're discussing adult topics with her, and leaning on her is in appropriate both from an age standpoint and a relationship standpoint. Please find someone else to discuss this with. Also, I went to BLAH agency and I found them to be really good at helping me understand why I was in an abusive relationship."
At the end of the day, people who are addicts or who are in abusive relationships have stunted emotional growth, and it's entirely possible that the Fiance IS emotionally the same age as the 16-year old. That doesn't make it right though.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:59 AM on April 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
Here's a script for mom, "Eloise, I know you enjoy talking with Barbara, and that you feel important when she turns to you for advice. I'm concerned because I believe that it's inappropriate for Barbara to turn to you for advice about your Dad. What do YOU think about this?"
Then the daughter can say what she thinks. Then the Mom can say, "You're a very bright and intelligent young lady, and I can see why Barbara would want to talk to you, but can you understand why I don't think it's a good idea for her to be sharing these details about her relationship with your Dad, with you?"
"I think you should have a stock phrase that you should use with Barbara, when she strays into an area where you don't feel comfortable discussing a topic with her, let's brainstorm one, shall we?"
Then Mom can suggest, "I don't feel comfortable discussing your relationship issues with my Dad with you." Or, "Technically, I'm still a kid, and this is really not anything I have experience with." Or, "I'm not really the right person to discuss that with."
If the Daughter enjoys being in the middle of the DRAMAZ, then the Mom may need to go directly to the Fiance. "Barbara, I know that you and Eloise are forming a relationship, and I think that's swell, but I'm really concerned when you call her to discuss abuse you're getting from my Ex. No one commisserates about that more than I do, but it's inappropriate to bring her into your relationship problems. We've just recently removed ourselves from that situation, and I want Eloise to feel safe and loved in her current household. I'm afraid that the fact that you're discussing adult topics with her, and leaning on her is in appropriate both from an age standpoint and a relationship standpoint. Please find someone else to discuss this with. Also, I went to BLAH agency and I found them to be really good at helping me understand why I was in an abusive relationship."
At the end of the day, people who are addicts or who are in abusive relationships have stunted emotional growth, and it's entirely possible that the Fiance IS emotionally the same age as the 16-year old. That doesn't make it right though.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:59 AM on April 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
The response depends on how savvy the daughter is.
My mother was not mature enough to help me with this type of thing when I was 16, but if someone had started serious discussions with me at that age about what "Teh Dramaz" was, and why getting sucked into or generating myself "Teh Dramaz," was really really counter-productive to having an awesome life.... Let's just say my high school years would have been waaaaay different, and leave it at that:)
It's too bad the stepmother is in an abusive relationship with the girl's father, but the stepmom must be prevented from pulling the daughter into this toxic dynamic she's attempting to create.
In fact, there is a technical term for the dysfunctional dynamic the stepmom is trying to create - anyone here remember it?
If the daughter is the type to like knowledge, maybe showing her some psychology resources that describe and explore this type of dyfunctional relationships might really help.
If she reads about it in books or on the internet, it becomes less like "My mom is trying to stop me from helping my new friend!" and more like, "Wow, I don't want to grow up and be like that. What a shame."
posted by jbenben at 9:58 AM on April 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
My mother was not mature enough to help me with this type of thing when I was 16, but if someone had started serious discussions with me at that age about what "Teh Dramaz" was, and why getting sucked into or generating myself "Teh Dramaz," was really really counter-productive to having an awesome life.... Let's just say my high school years would have been waaaaay different, and leave it at that:)
It's too bad the stepmother is in an abusive relationship with the girl's father, but the stepmom must be prevented from pulling the daughter into this toxic dynamic she's attempting to create.
In fact, there is a technical term for the dysfunctional dynamic the stepmom is trying to create - anyone here remember it?
If the daughter is the type to like knowledge, maybe showing her some psychology resources that describe and explore this type of dyfunctional relationships might really help.
If she reads about it in books or on the internet, it becomes less like "My mom is trying to stop me from helping my new friend!" and more like, "Wow, I don't want to grow up and be like that. What a shame."
posted by jbenben at 9:58 AM on April 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Though it's probably true that the daughter would be "poisoning the future relationship" if she remains in this role, the daughter already has definite ideas about the situation which she is making clear. If these ideas alienate her father, I don't see that as necessarily worse than maintaining a relationship with him based on the lie that he's not abusive.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:18 AM on April 1, 2013