Choose my adventure: Bard retreat or Tufts advance?
March 29, 2012 9:45 PM Subscribe
Please be my crystal ball and tell me if I should get my MAT degree at Bard or Tufts University. I hate decisions in general, but in this case the financials are equal, I like both city and country, small settings and larger ones, and a longer haul seems only differently attractive than a short 1-year sprint, plus I probably can't break the tie by visiting.
Possibly relevant: I want to teach HS English in an alternative and/or independent school as a prelude to founding one myself. It seems uncertain whether this means I'll need to impress people or if it means the sort of people I'll be into impressing would be looking at different things. Both schools are actually very close to my ideal balance of practicum emphasis, genial pedagogic philosophy and rigorous graduate-level study of literature. Also:
- I'm sort of the stereotypical Bard student, at least for undergrad, in that I'm a weird, artsy creative writer who likes talking about philosophy and/or over-analyzing Buffy, enjoys random helpings of ballet and is very sensitive to pretty architecture plus woodland (also: gardens!). Plus, the motto: 'A Place to Think'-- who could resist it? However, my Bard MAT would take 1 1/2-2 years rather than 1, would have a set MAT-only English curriculum rather than giving me options, and the teaching practicum is probably limited to the rural New York State area unless I do something really different and manage to do Independent Study at an Indian reservation for my practice. Also, I'm concerned at losing steam and/or motivation in a part-time program, though i was told I could make up some time by working with an adviser once I'm there.
- I am also pretty ambitious, and enamored of the opportunities Tufts offers: a prestigious name, a variety of school placements for my teaching practicum (there's an affiliated school called 'Latin Academy'!), free choice of available English PhD courses, and basically a variety of options for every aspect of the degree. Plus, I love New England and Boston seems awesome and it's right nearby. I may actually stay in New England for a few years, whereas the teacher certification for New York State would just be a prelude to me transferring it to move back to the Northwest immediately. I'm worried that the intense pace of a 1-year program would go too fast for me (that is, I don't quite feel ready for high school immersion yet), though I'm further worried my worries are unfounded and/or I need to 'just do it'.
Another possible factor that I'm unsure how much to weigh is that Bard's program would start the Monday after my last day of class as an undergrad (which would be on the previous Thursday). So I'd have to move from Olympia to Annandale-on-Hudson in a weekend. With Tufts, I'd have the whole summer off to write my novel or what have you-- though such short-duration stress seems like it shouldn't be a big long-term factor.
The biggest issue is that I already love Bard, but fear that's totally subjective, and if I shouldn't be more practical and sensible in terms of my graduate school (plus, I really admire Tufts, I just don't love it subjectively... yet?). I can see myself at Bard easily, but am uncertain about Tufts. So... I guess I'm wondering where can you see me, especially given you have some familiarity with either of these schools?
Possibly relevant: I want to teach HS English in an alternative and/or independent school as a prelude to founding one myself. It seems uncertain whether this means I'll need to impress people or if it means the sort of people I'll be into impressing would be looking at different things. Both schools are actually very close to my ideal balance of practicum emphasis, genial pedagogic philosophy and rigorous graduate-level study of literature. Also:
- I'm sort of the stereotypical Bard student, at least for undergrad, in that I'm a weird, artsy creative writer who likes talking about philosophy and/or over-analyzing Buffy, enjoys random helpings of ballet and is very sensitive to pretty architecture plus woodland (also: gardens!). Plus, the motto: 'A Place to Think'-- who could resist it? However, my Bard MAT would take 1 1/2-2 years rather than 1, would have a set MAT-only English curriculum rather than giving me options, and the teaching practicum is probably limited to the rural New York State area unless I do something really different and manage to do Independent Study at an Indian reservation for my practice. Also, I'm concerned at losing steam and/or motivation in a part-time program, though i was told I could make up some time by working with an adviser once I'm there.
- I am also pretty ambitious, and enamored of the opportunities Tufts offers: a prestigious name, a variety of school placements for my teaching practicum (there's an affiliated school called 'Latin Academy'!), free choice of available English PhD courses, and basically a variety of options for every aspect of the degree. Plus, I love New England and Boston seems awesome and it's right nearby. I may actually stay in New England for a few years, whereas the teacher certification for New York State would just be a prelude to me transferring it to move back to the Northwest immediately. I'm worried that the intense pace of a 1-year program would go too fast for me (that is, I don't quite feel ready for high school immersion yet), though I'm further worried my worries are unfounded and/or I need to 'just do it'.
Another possible factor that I'm unsure how much to weigh is that Bard's program would start the Monday after my last day of class as an undergrad (which would be on the previous Thursday). So I'd have to move from Olympia to Annandale-on-Hudson in a weekend. With Tufts, I'd have the whole summer off to write my novel or what have you-- though such short-duration stress seems like it shouldn't be a big long-term factor.
The biggest issue is that I already love Bard, but fear that's totally subjective, and if I shouldn't be more practical and sensible in terms of my graduate school (plus, I really admire Tufts, I just don't love it subjectively... yet?). I can see myself at Bard easily, but am uncertain about Tufts. So... I guess I'm wondering where can you see me, especially given you have some familiarity with either of these schools?
I can't offer any suggestions regarding the two schools. However, since you state your goal is to teach in an independent school, you don't need an advanced degree or certification (in NYC, anyway). Although I've got both, I've taught for 15 years alongside plenty of very competent teachers without either - and if you're just getting into teaching you might want to give it a try before spending what might end up being wasted time in a graduate program.
posted by blaneyphoto at 10:00 PM on March 29, 2012
posted by blaneyphoto at 10:00 PM on March 29, 2012
Response by poster: To answer questions:
- I think the cohorts will be "small"... as to how small, well, Bard is a smaller school in general so I'm thinking probably it'll be smaller. But they both made a point that it'll be kept intentionally small, though one of Bard's attractions is that there's a lot more hand-holding and guidance through every step in the process (including a month dedicated to job-hunting workshops). Plus I'm not sure I want to get a job in the Northeast per se (not that I'd turn it down unless I've got one in the Northwest lined up instead).
- Tuft's faculty pool is bigger due to the combination of English department and education department faculty, whereas Bard has got only the MAT faculty.
- The financial cost of living in Boston (or on Tufts campus) may be larger, it's true, plus a part time Bard program allows for a job to supplement my income, granted I can find one on campus or in the middle of nowhere, New York State.
- I've already decided to go to grad school after considering just interning, like for instance there's a certification program at a fascinating charter school in Massachusetts in Devens. However, I don't think I'm enough of a natural at teaching (I'm very shy) to count on sink or swim as the way to judge my fitness. The grad program is there to smooth the transition.
posted by reenka at 10:33 PM on March 29, 2012
- I think the cohorts will be "small"... as to how small, well, Bard is a smaller school in general so I'm thinking probably it'll be smaller. But they both made a point that it'll be kept intentionally small, though one of Bard's attractions is that there's a lot more hand-holding and guidance through every step in the process (including a month dedicated to job-hunting workshops). Plus I'm not sure I want to get a job in the Northeast per se (not that I'd turn it down unless I've got one in the Northwest lined up instead).
- Tuft's faculty pool is bigger due to the combination of English department and education department faculty, whereas Bard has got only the MAT faculty.
- The financial cost of living in Boston (or on Tufts campus) may be larger, it's true, plus a part time Bard program allows for a job to supplement my income, granted I can find one on campus or in the middle of nowhere, New York State.
- I've already decided to go to grad school after considering just interning, like for instance there's a certification program at a fascinating charter school in Massachusetts in Devens. However, I don't think I'm enough of a natural at teaching (I'm very shy) to count on sink or swim as the way to judge my fitness. The grad program is there to smooth the transition.
posted by reenka at 10:33 PM on March 29, 2012
FWIW, I work just off the Tufts campus and it's a lovely area to live in. Davis Square is, of course, especially nice, but rents are pretty high. Out farther into Medford and away from the T is cheaper. So yes, Boston is an awesome place to live, but you'll be paying at least $700 a month in rent with roommates (unless you are in an absolute shithole or on the wrong side of the McGrath in Somerville). I'm looking at apartments for right now and I haven't seen any reasonable one bedrooms for less than $1300. I did find one for $1100, but it had no windows. Seriously, none.
You shouldn't necessarily make the decision based on money, I just wanted to give you that heads up. I really do love living here in Somerville, despite the rent increases - and if you end up at Tufts, make sure to hit Emiliano'z just up Boston Ave across the Mystic for some yummy Mexican food.
posted by maryr at 10:42 PM on March 29, 2012
You shouldn't necessarily make the decision based on money, I just wanted to give you that heads up. I really do love living here in Somerville, despite the rent increases - and if you end up at Tufts, make sure to hit Emiliano'z just up Boston Ave across the Mystic for some yummy Mexican food.
posted by maryr at 10:42 PM on March 29, 2012
My experience with undergrad and grad programs is not with either of these schools, and it wasn't in teaching, so I will just say: the undergraduate identity of American universities (and colleges) often bears little cultural semblance to that of its graduate or professional schools. (To draw on what might be a familiar example, Reed's undergrad experience and its MALS have qualities in common and you're a Reedie when you're done either way, but the undergrad and MALS students are very different species.)
posted by gingerest at 11:06 PM on March 29, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 11:06 PM on March 29, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have a daughter who went to Bard and loved it, of course. Having said that, I think you should head for the (temporary) home that will let you stretch the most, beyond the way you labelled yourself above (artsy, etc). Bard is the perfect fit. Go to Tufts.
posted by thinkpiece at 3:58 AM on March 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by thinkpiece at 3:58 AM on March 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you have a hard time making decisions, remember the principle described by Thomas Hobbes: If there is a significant difference between the two, the choice will be obvious. If there is not, the choice will not mean very much.
posted by megatherium at 4:41 AM on March 30, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by megatherium at 4:41 AM on March 30, 2012 [8 favorites]
If you are thinking of teaching at private schools, you might look at the sort of schools you're interested in working at and the degrees their teachers have as a guideline for what hirers are looking at; you certainly don't need a teaching degree or even anything above a BA sometimes, but that does depend on your subject and how prestigious your primary degree is. Private school teaching jobs have gotten considerably harder to get over the past ten years, especially in subjects like English. A lot of hiring committees in these schools are looking for certain educational profiles as much as teaching skill, especially when all else about several applicants is equal.
So, that's a long-winded way to say that one important factor should be where you can find graduates of these schools teaching. They don't necessarily need to be graduates of your program, just people with degrees from these colleges.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:29 AM on March 30, 2012
So, that's a long-winded way to say that one important factor should be where you can find graduates of these schools teaching. They don't necessarily need to be graduates of your program, just people with degrees from these colleges.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:29 AM on March 30, 2012
A close friend teaches in the Bard MAT program, but not English. I know my friend works with several schools in the Bronx and I'm pretty her students do their student teaching there- urban high-poverty schools. You should check to see if your assumption about student teaching placements is correct. Teaching in the South Bronx would definitely stretch you!
posted by mareli at 6:02 AM on March 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 6:02 AM on March 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
- I'm sort of the stereotypical Bard student, at least for undergrad, in that I'm a weird, artsy creative writer who likes talking about philosophy and/or over-analyzing Buffy, enjoys random helpings of ballet and is very sensitive to pretty architecture plus woodland (also: gardens!).
I live close to Bard. Have you been out here before? It's absolutely gorgeous with tons of outdoor activities and there are a ton of small crunchy towns around here. "Rural New York State" is probably not what you think it is. It's also an area that's accessible to both New England and New York City. If you're doing private school teaching, there's no reason to jump ship after living in this area and moving back to the NW. There are a lot of options in this area--and some are the same options that you'd have if you went to Tufts.
(Also you should MeMail me if you end up out here and I'll take you out for coffee sometime. :) )
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:35 AM on March 30, 2012
I live close to Bard. Have you been out here before? It's absolutely gorgeous with tons of outdoor activities and there are a ton of small crunchy towns around here. "Rural New York State" is probably not what you think it is. It's also an area that's accessible to both New England and New York City. If you're doing private school teaching, there's no reason to jump ship after living in this area and moving back to the NW. There are a lot of options in this area--and some are the same options that you'd have if you went to Tufts.
(Also you should MeMail me if you end up out here and I'll take you out for coffee sometime. :) )
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:35 AM on March 30, 2012
Also, rereading your question, it sounds to me like you know you'll be happier at Bards. You should go where you'll be happiest.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:00 AM on March 30, 2012
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:00 AM on March 30, 2012
I was an undergrad at Bard, and my experience with the grad students (though the programs have grown since I graduated) was that they were either always in the city or fairly lonely. It's a beautiful area, but quiet, and as a grad student, you may not have the time or the income to hang out with the wealthy commuters, or the common interests with Kingstonians or Poughkeepsie-ans.
Bard is awesome (I'm going back for a visit in July), but if I had to choose for grad school, I'd be in Boston where I could network and have adult friends. And it's not like there's a shortage of arty and creative people in Somerville.
Also for grad school, the cachet and networking is worth as much or more than the educational experience. So figure out where the people you want to be went to school, and go from there. Bard will give you lots of contacts in NYC, whereas Tufts will set you up for Boston (and probably more of the northeast). And of course, ask yourself where you'll incur the least debt. That will probably be more life changing than the hours you spend in seminars.
posted by freshwater at 11:43 AM on March 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Bard is awesome (I'm going back for a visit in July), but if I had to choose for grad school, I'd be in Boston where I could network and have adult friends. And it's not like there's a shortage of arty and creative people in Somerville.
Also for grad school, the cachet and networking is worth as much or more than the educational experience. So figure out where the people you want to be went to school, and go from there. Bard will give you lots of contacts in NYC, whereas Tufts will set you up for Boston (and probably more of the northeast). And of course, ask yourself where you'll incur the least debt. That will probably be more life changing than the hours you spend in seminars.
posted by freshwater at 11:43 AM on March 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
What you should do is contact each school and ask for some names of current near-graduation or recent alums to talk to about each.
Take a piece of paper, and fold it in quarters. In the top half, write BARD across the top, and PRO and CON in each quadrant. Then list all the ones you're aware of in each. Do the same in the bottom half for Tufts.
Talking to a few alums from each, you can use those as talking points ("what did you think of the xyz? did you find it hard to connect with other students? what did you do for fun? blah blah") and they will help you make up your mind, if you haven't already!
posted by canine epigram at 5:57 PM on March 30, 2012
Take a piece of paper, and fold it in quarters. In the top half, write BARD across the top, and PRO and CON in each quadrant. Then list all the ones you're aware of in each. Do the same in the bottom half for Tufts.
Talking to a few alums from each, you can use those as talking points ("what did you think of the xyz? did you find it hard to connect with other students? what did you do for fun? blah blah") and they will help you make up your mind, if you haven't already!
posted by canine epigram at 5:57 PM on March 30, 2012
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How large a faculty in the program at each place?
What kinds of jobs do graduates of each place get?
Are the financials equal even taking into account the difference in cost of living in the two areas?
Based purely on what you've said here, it sounds like Tufts is the better bet. More options, more name recognition once you leave the school, more resources available at the school, plus making connections with a network that could help you get a job in the northeast.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:55 PM on March 29, 2012 [1 favorite]