How to get over affair with a guy I don't even like but feel like I "loved" or at least obsessed over?

March 26, 2012 3:14 PM

I had a workplace affair with a horrible guy. Has anyone had an affair with a "bad" guy who treated them poorly? How do I get over it?

Me: Married, late twenties, no kids. Other man (OM): Married, early thirties, kids.

We work in the same organization. He has a reputation of being a creep (right now is under investigation for sexual harassment of a couple women, lots of rumors about him). I didn't know this when the affair started, although my creep-dar was ringing a lot. I ignored it and ended up having a physical/emotional affair with him. He came on very strong, busted so many of my boundaries, and because I had so many unresolved issues I didn't even recognize at the time, I participated heavily in all of this.

I'd never done anything like that before and never even thought it was possible. This guy is the complete opposite of my husband. I understand now, I have so many unresolved issues from childhood (Adult Child of Alcoholic, love addiction, incredibly low self-esteem, bad boundaries, physical and sexual abuse) that I didn't even really know were there before the affair.

I am in individual counseling. My husband is aware of my affair. He wants to work it out and is being so much more supportive than he should be. Maybe even enabling me to feel like the victim. We are both in marriage counseling as well. It's not easy.

I love my husband so much. I am devastated I did this, not only for him, but for me and the OM's family.

I've been reading about the affair fog and everything and support groups for people who have had affairs. The thing is, I was treated like garbage in my affair. The OM didn't say he loved me, he screwed me in bathrooms and treated me like a whore, he never made promises that we would be together, he was downright mean to me. Most people have affairs with people that meet their needs and give them positive attention/affection their spouses don't give them. I had an affair with a guy who treated me like dirt (giving me something my husband didn't give me that I was used to as a child, I guess).

I work with the OM and he is no longer on speaking terms with me after I ended the affair. I was getting incredibly sick, having panic attacks, unable to function well when I was in the midst of the affair. I became obsessive about him, trying to extract affection and love and caring out of him. I understand logically and rationally what I was trying to do and even why.

The hard part is, I just don't know what to do with these feelings. I still feel obsessive about him. I feel incredible guilt that I participated in having an affair with him that could have destroyed his marriage and kids' life and my marriage. His wife doesn't know and he told me he'd had other affairs on her. I don't want to tell her at all. I know it isn't my place. I can't imagine bringing that hurt on her.

I have a really hard time seeing him at work, but due to this economy and bills and everything, I can't really just leave my job. I don't want to either. I love my job. I feel angry and used and that he is a "bad" guy and I keep basically cyber-stalking his life to try and gather "clues" about him. I hate engaging in this behavior and it's counterproductive to my marriage getting better and me getting better. But I keep feeling like I will finally find something that makes me feel better about this situation.

Last night I felt so guilty about everything I couldn't sleep and ended up not going to work today. I hate what I did to his family and to my husband, and I hate what I let happen to me (the poor treatment and degrading sex. I ended up doing things I didn't even like, had never done before, had no interest in, made me feel terrible about myself, trying to "win" him over). It makes me so mad he can just go on like nothing happened and continue with his ways while I am hurt and feel destroyed.

I'm thinking of trying a new counselor because I have been seeing mine for a few months and although he has helped me some (he recommended David Burns' work, which has helped me a lot), I don't feel like I am getting to a place I need to be.

Does anyone have any suggestions or have been there? How can I get this guy out of my head once and for all? I hate feeling obsessed and wronged. I hate that I've had to get FMLA leave from work to deal with the stress this has caused me.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (61 answers total)

I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds like you have a good support network and are trying to think this through clearly. I know you said you can't leave your job, but--I really think you should consider getting a new job instead if you can. I am not a doctor, but being exposed to this toxic man daily cannot be helping as you try to move on, save your marriage, and repair your own mental and emotional health. It's like trying to recover from a car accident when you're spending eight hours a day sitting next to the wreckage. I know how tough times are right now economically, but as a rule, jobs can be replaced. Your health--and your marriage--cannot. I really wish you the best right now.
posted by anonnymoose at 3:27 PM on March 26, 2012

The first thing that you need to try to work on believing has to do with this --

I hate what I did to his family

YOU didn't do anything to his family. Whatever harm was brought to his family, HE did it. Okay, maybe you had a tiny bit part in it, but HE is the guy who really wronged his family. The person that you did the most direct harm to is your husband -- and your husband is working things out with you. Your ex's family is HIS problem.

You also say you feel "angry" and "used" -- GOOD. Not because I want you to feel miserable -- but if you hang on to how angry and used you feel, maybe that will keep you from obsessing over him ("I'm so obsessed with this guy -- wait, he told me I was a slut. What a cock-nugget, fuck that guy.")

You mention that you're an adult child of an alcoholic -- have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:27 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

Saying you have bills and can't quit your job is not the same thing as not being able to find a new job. You need to get out of this office ASAP. If you are committed to getting over this affair and reconciling with your husband, you need to get out of this office and cease all contact with this man. And you need to make this a very urgent, high priority.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:28 PM on March 26, 2012 [18 favorites]

whoa! this is a doozy. you are in therapy though, that is REALLY good!! you've already had some profound realizations about things, this is a strong indicator that you can work through this!

it seems to me that OM was an analog for the adults who hurt you as a child, from whom you still desire love, validation or at least some explanation of WHY????? you are projecting that onto him, you want to know more about him to understand why he treated you this way. (which is just because he is a manipulative, predatory asshole)

be sure you are discussing this aspect with your therapists and husband. it takes time to work on self-esteem issues and recognize the unhealthy dynamics you learned as a child but it does happen!!! I think the more you explore understanding your own feelings and needs the more the energy of your obsession can revert to you and away from an external symbol of your challenges. good luck!
posted by supermedusa at 3:29 PM on March 26, 2012 [2 favorites]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It sounds like he really took advantage of you and used you.

Are you being 100% honest with your therapist, including the fact that you are continuing to spend time cyber stalking him? It's really important to be very honest with your therapist - whether you stay with the same therapist or seek out a new one. It's especially important to be honest when you feel ashamed of what you are doing. Your therapist should help you work through the feelings of shame and also help you with practical tips to help stop engaging in the destructive behaviors.
posted by insectosaurus at 3:29 PM on March 26, 2012

And another thought--again, I'm not a doctor and can't give medixal advice obviously, but cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) facilitated by a therapist really helped me tremendously when I was recovering after my own traumatic event (I was the victim of an armed robbery). It helped me train myself to better deal with the spiraling anxiety and intrusive thoughts that can accompany the aftermath of trauma. Your experience sounds pretty traumatic. Maybe it's worth considering a therapist who can provide CBT?
posted by anonnymoose at 3:33 PM on March 26, 2012

I have a couple things to say, which will probably be better said by others by the time I get around to being able to say them but this stood out to me:

He wants to work it out and is being so much more supportive than he should be.

Love him for doing this -- because, hell, you definitely should -- but please let him decide what his 'should' is in this instance and don't beat yourself up any more than you already are. You've got plenty to deal with.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:36 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

If he isn't terminated for his unrelated indiscretions, you will have to leave your job to get away from him and the hold he clearly still has over you. There is no other option. Sorry.
posted by a_girl_irl at 3:37 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

Tell him he has to resign or you are telling his family. One of you has to leave this company, might as well be him. Heck, he is under investigation anyway.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:42 PM on March 26, 2012 [2 favorites]

Tell him he has to resign or you are telling his family.

I'm not sure if this counts as blackmail, and I'm not sure if it's legal. You might want to look into that if you're considering this option.
posted by insectosaurus at 3:46 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

I've been reading about the affair fog and everything and support groups for people who have had affairs. The thing is, I was treated like garbage in my affair. The OM didn't say he loved me, he screwed me in bathrooms and treated me like a whore, he never made promises that we would be together, he was downright mean to me.

It seems like you're really playing up yourself as the victim here. It seems like you should at least admit that this man excited you and that you were a willing participant in all this, because pretty much everything you wrote in your question makes it sound as though you were the victim. Portraying yourself as the hapless, naive pawn of this sick man is conducive to you being obsessed with him: you seem fascinated by his dark magnetism and his manipulative wiles.

It seems like you'd have much more success in overcoming your obsession if you just "owned" your role in this and admitted, "damn, it was hot the way he screwed me in the bathroom and called me a whore." Would you feel any better if he promised you'd be together forever? If that had happened, you'd have a reasonable complaint about being used and misled. Here, it sounds like you two used each other for white-hot sex and raw, primal satisfaction of needs with absolutely no other expectation ... It's kind of hard to paint him as the culprit here when you clearly weren't misled.

Bottom line: it seems like you should be looking for what's missing in your relationship with your husband. Demonizing your paramour seems to be feeding your obsession with him. Accept that he gave you something you craved ... that your relationship with your husband may not be supplying ... and something that it was not necessarily wrong or bad to crave.
posted by jayder at 3:54 PM on March 26, 2012 [30 favorites]

Shame vs guilt. You have made some mistakes, but you are not those mistakes.

If you have 20 minutes and the energy for a good cry, watch the new Brene Brown YouTube video/Ted talk about shame.

Yes, you have been and are vulnerable. Feel it and grow. Your husband printable realizes that you are a strong and courageous person. Now you need to be kind to yourself as you learn to recognize those traits on yourself.
posted by bilabial at 3:55 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

Also, a few months is not a great deal of time in the scheme of things, therapy-wise. You have a lot of big issues you're working through about your family of origin, your marriage and your work. Don't run away from the therapy at this point.
posted by judith at 3:55 PM on March 26, 2012

Wait, what? He is "no longer on speaking terms with" you? Where the fuck does he get off with that shit?

He should be treating you with professionalism and courtesy, not like crap.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:59 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

And you so need to read Facing Codependence and do the workbook. Your affair with this asshat was (among other things) a form of self-harm that sustained your codependent narrative. You deserve to be treated better, and you have a responsibility to treat others better.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:02 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

If I were his wife, I'd sure as hell want to know. You might not be the right person for the job, but your husband--as the party in more or less the same position she is--has a slightly better claim to neutrality, a pretty solid claim that he has no interest in hurting her, and a rock solid claim to his self-knowledge of whether he wants that can of worms opened in view of how he's coping.

Meanwhile, start looking for another job yesterday. Yes, that kind of sucks, but it's a relatively light consequence in view of how badly this spoils your work environment, your peace of mind, and, very probably, your husband's peace of mind too.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 4:07 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

You'll get over this when you realize you deserve better. Come on, please realize that.
posted by amodelcitizen at 4:21 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

Exactly this happened to a friend of mine. We live a long way apart so I didn't see the full repercussions of it, but the end result is that she's now happily living with her long-term partner, the one she cheated on. The whole episode (and it was just that) seemed to make their relationship stronger and happier.
posted by hnnrs at 4:25 PM on March 26, 2012

This is amazingly close to the story of a friend of mine, with the addition that the man was also her superior. After everything came to light between her and her husband, she hired an employment lawyer. On his advice, she went to the head of the small to medium firm where she worked, told her story, and asked for a severance package in exchange for not making a formal suit for sexual harassment. She requested and received six months of severance pay, a glowing letter of recommendation regarding her work performance (which was completely deserved) and they also paid for 6 months of therapy. She left the firm that day and never went back. (I'm not aware what repercussions her superior experienced).

You don't mention whether the man involved was your superior or the size of the business/firm you work for, but it might be something to keep in mind.

Also, just to complete the story, after six months off work and lots of hard work in therapy, she returned to work at another firm in a comparable position, with no damage done to her career. She and her husband underwent marriage therapy (heck, they may still be going for all I know), they both received personal therapy (and maybe they still do), and according to my friend, their marriage is now stronger than it probably would have ever been without the impetus of the affair to get themselves sorted out.

It sounds as if you and your husband are both hard at work to repair the damage this has caused. Just know that healing IS possible.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 4:30 PM on March 26, 2012 [6 favorites]

You have an opportunity to use this time to address unresolved issues from childhood and see this as a wake up call to take care of yourself. So, when he comes up in your mind--it's that he is a symptom of both what was and still is going on with you due to your childhood. And this is the time for you to do everything you can to move forward and heal. You are already in therapy. I suggest you take this time to read everything you can about being an adult child of an alcoholic and a survivor of childhood abuse. Study these subjects as though your life depended on this information. Find support groups to attend. Your therapist will be able to direct you to those.

You get him out of your head by keeping yourself accountable (saying things out loud like, 'I'm googling him again', stopping what you are doing, getting up away from your computer, writing it down, telling your therapist). You fill your time with healing activities (the reading mentioned above, walking, going to therapy, exercising, journaling, cleaning a closet, volunteering, knitting--whatever it is that works for you). You remind yourself out loud, on paper, continuously that you deserve to be treated with love and respect; that you love and respect yourself. Even if you don't feel it right now. Also--even just the act of looking for another job might help you feel less trapped in this situation--even if no other job is readily available. Take steps to find other work because working with this guy is perpetuating your stress and that is getting in the way of your happiness.

I wish you the best of luck.
posted by marimeko at 4:31 PM on March 26, 2012 [6 favorites]

I would start from a standpoint of self-esteem.

All these realizations you are having about the encroachment of your boundaries, the impact this had on his family, the impact it had on your husband, and your own unresolved issues are actually GOOD, because it means you are now a person capable of recognizing the things that played into this and addressing them to make sure it doesn't happen again.

They're things that put you in a good place to grow beyond the mindset you had at the before. I'm not in a position to tell you how, exactly you do that, but the attitude is probably more along the lines of looking at your guilt and shame not as reminders that you did something bad but as reminders that you're committed to making better choices. You can use them constructively.

(Cary Tennis has a quote which I can't find, but the effect of it is, actions cannot be undone, but a soul can heal.)

The main thing I'd worry about, though, is the cyberstalking and the obsessing, because it's still giving energy to this and giving it a space in your life that's concealed from your husband.

You can stop if you want to.
posted by alphanerd at 4:37 PM on March 26, 2012

You need to forgive yourself.

You made a series of poor decisions and got carried away. It happens. But you were able to stop him from using you any more. That shows strength. You are stronger than you realize. You stood up to a bully.

Yes, he's a bad man who does bad things. There were things about that darkness that were attractive to you on some level. Explore that in therapy. But stay away from being a private eye on him. Zero good and only bad can come of that.

Good luck.
posted by inturnaround at 4:37 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

I have to second jayder. Everything you write portrays yourself as a victim, instead of a person with agency and choice.

This is the most troubling thing you wrote:

Maybe even enabling me to feel like the victim.

Your husband is not enabling you to feel like the victim, you're allowing yourself to feel like the victim. I think you need to acknowledge your choice in the affair, both to yourself and your husband.

I feel angry and used and that he is a "bad" guy and I keep basically cyber-stalking his life to try and gather "clues" about him. I hate engaging in this behavior and it's counterproductive to my marriage getting better and me getting better. But I keep feeling like I will finally find something that makes me feel better about this situation.

There is nothing you will ever unearth about him that will make you feel better about this situation. No secret, no clue. Nothing.
posted by 6550 at 4:38 PM on March 26, 2012 [11 favorites]

I agree with the others that either you've got to find a new job or the OM has to go, if only because I imagine it's tremendously difficult on your (apparently great) husband to know that you go to work with the guy you did all of those things with.

Even if he's the greatest and most understanding guy in the world, that's still got to be really hard to deal with. Even though the creeper is under investigation, etc., he could still be there for some time, so for at least your husband's sake, I'd begin looking for a new job.
posted by Fister Roboto at 4:38 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

i'm with jayder on this. you have put all the blame on this man and have not owned the fact that you were a willing participant in this affair. this whole post makes it sound like he somehow coerced you into this affair, that you were a passive person who all of this "happened" —but it takes two to tangle. its easy to demonize the other party bc that absolves you of your own culpability. when you accept that you did get something that you needed from this man that your husband wasn't giving you, and identify what that was, i think you'll be more successful in working through how this will affect your marriage going forward. it might also help you move on from this man, rather than obsess about him—bc i think the obsessing is tied to whatever it you got out of the affair. and you are still playing the victim and take some accountability for your role in getting involved.
posted by violetk at 4:41 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

Last night I felt so guilty about everything I couldn't sleep and ended up not going to work today. I hate what I did to his family and to my husband, and I hate what I let happen to me (the poor treatment and degrading sex. I ended up doing things I didn't even like, had never done before, had no interest in, made me feel terrible about myself, trying to "win" him over).

It sounds like you have your husband's forgiveness for what you did to him. So, it sounds like what you still need is your own forgiveness for what you feel you did to yourself. If you feel like you didn't protect yourself the way you would have wanted to -- forgive yourself for that. You can still work on changing what you want to change, even if you forgive yourself.

You are not going to find what you are looking for in reading up on him because self-forgiveness can only come from you.

It makes me so mad he can just go on like nothing happened and continue with his ways while I am hurt and feel destroyed.

If he's under investigation, he's not exactly continuing in his ways unimpeded. You can also contribute to that investigation if you have anything relevant to add.
posted by cairdeas at 4:49 PM on March 26, 2012

Another voice agreeing that either you or "OM" needs to leave the workplace ASAP, and agreement with above that you are not the main victim here. You were a willing participant in this affair, your husband and OM's family are the biggest victims here.

Staying at your current job while this other person is there, cyberstalking OM and obsessing over him are just adding insult to injury. For husband, your marriage, and yourself get out of that workplace.
posted by Beacon Inbound at 5:04 PM on March 26, 2012

I agree with jayder that your view of yourself as a victim here is telling, but my interpretation is more that you weren't aware of the places where you could have or should have exercised choices, or weren't sure how best to do it, even though you say your creep-dar was ringing.

I don't think we can infer that you enjoyed the bathroom sex and mistreatment. (And being treated like a whore is different from being called one.) That's not the way you present it, and you're describing it as familiar rather than enjoyable, and specifically describe your motivations for doing it as NOT to meet unmet needs.

I don't know what to make of that. I suppose people sometimes aren't honest with themselves about their own motivations, just as they also sometimes have trouble setting boundaries.

I'm just reluctant to say that you really enjoyed the stuff you described as degrading and accounted for with a different explanation. Maybe others can help flesh this out.
posted by alphanerd at 5:35 PM on March 26, 2012 [2 favorites]

nthing Jayder and the idea that this was really hot and you have to own that. Part of your healing may be realizing that you need to be screwed in a bathroom stall and called a whore every once in a while. And there's nothing wrong with that. Tell your husband - he might like it too.
posted by sockratties at 5:39 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

Take all of your accrued vacation starting tomorrow and do nothing for that amount of time, but search feverishly for a new job. You should be running out of this office like someone set your ass on fire.
posted by phoebus at 5:45 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

1. Does anyone have any suggestions or have been there?

I had a multi-year affair with a “bad” guy. An emotionally and sexually abusive guy who continually made me question my own worth. I was the other woman. I think Jayder’s advice that you need to own your role in this relationship by admitting that "damn, it was hot the way he screwed me in the bathroom and called me a whore” is way, way, way off. I do think you need to own your role, but I doubt that in reality this affair had anything to do with sexual gratification. The guy I was with made me feel like a whore, and through a lot of therapy, I realized this wasn’t some sexual fantasy of mine I wad desperately trying to fulfill, but a perverse attempt to make right a wrong thing that happened to me in my childhood. Once I came to terms with this I was able to begin to move on. It still hurts though. Reading you question hurts because it brings me back to a very dark place.

I suggest you:
- Continue with this therapist for another two months (at least), and then revaluate.
- Begin looking for a new job (I’m a little confused, are you on medical leave now from the job where OM works?)
- Allow your husband to be there for you and don’t judge him for it. Don’t tell him how he should be feeling, ever.
- Realize that just because this relationship was consensual, that the way that this man treated you was not okay.
- Pick a specific activity to do when you start obsessive behaviors such as cyber-stalking. Do yoga, watch a movie, have a cookie, do ten jumping jacks, makes some tea, whatever, just do something (anything) that gets you up and away from what you’re doing.

2. On the issue of you “owning” your part in this relationship, I see you do this several times throughout your short post.

Examples: I participated heavily in all of this(…)I am devastated I did this, not only for him, but for me and the OM's family(…)I feel incredible guilt that I participated in having an affair with him that could have destroyed his marriage and kids' life and my marriage(…) I hate what I did to his family and to my husband, and I hate what I let happen to me.

You can’t fix the OM’s marriage, you can’t fix his wife, you can’t fix his kids. (Apologizing to them would be offensive to me as in how dare you think any apology could undue what you and he did.) Feel guilty all you want, but “own” that you have an absolute say in your and your marriage’s future.

3. I'm thinking of trying a new counselor because I have been seeing mine for a few months and although he has helped me some(…)I don't feel like I am getting to a place I need to be.

I believe It takes a long time and lot of effort to build a meaningful rapport with a therapist. I have been working with my psychologist for about six years. I would say the first six months of our sessions were all about me learning to trust him. The first three years were just about my recovery. Of course I (random person on the internet) can’t tell you how long you’ll need to be in therapy, but in my opinion, a few months isn’t not enough time to see significant progress (especially considering where you seem to be at now).

You made a mistake. A big, nasty, mistake. Do not allow this mistake to determine the rest of your life. Empower yourself to learn and grow from this. You can do it.
posted by OsoMeaty at 5:52 PM on March 26, 2012 [23 favorites]

Erm, I have a really hard time reconciling this:

this was really hot and you have to own that. Part of your healing may be realizing that you need to be screwed in a bathroom stall and called a whore every once in a while.

with what the OP actually said about it:

I ended up doing things I didn't even like, had never done before, had no interest in, made me feel terrible about myself, trying to "win" him over)

and

I was getting incredibly sick, having panic attacks, unable to function well when I was in the midst of the affair.

I see nothing in what the OP wrote that indicated she found anything hot about the sex she had with this guy. She said I became obsessive about him, trying to extract affection and love and caring out of him. It sounds like what she was after was some kind of loving attention from him and tried to get it by going along with the sex he wanted.

I don't know. When a woman says she felt really degraded and terrible about certain sexual acts and people reply by saying, oh, you must have secretly found it really hot... there is something extremely disturbing to me about that.
posted by cairdeas at 6:24 PM on March 26, 2012 [43 favorites]

Yes times a million to what OsoMeaty and cairdeas said. Obsessive relationships with shitheels can be a form of self-harm for people with horribly impaired self-esteem and boundaries and a lot of the other shit that adult children of alcoholics experience.

Now, of course, the stakes are higher here because the OP harmed her marriage and was complicit in harming the guy's marriage. Which it seems to me like she's clear-eyed about and engaging with her husband about.

But just as you wouldn't say to someone who was cutting, "Oh, maybe you just need to do that," saying to the OP that she must have "liked" the affair is pretty off base. Self destructive behaviors are self destructive. The OP doesn't seem to be in denial about that.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:33 PM on March 26, 2012 [2 favorites]

To add to cairdeas's question: and must we forget that women (and people of all genders) with fucked-up self images will seek out relationships where they're treated like shit so they can make the script from their childhoods that they're worthless and undeserving of respect come true?

I used to think that people with damaged self-images (self included) wanted to replay the "you're not worthy" scenario with lovers (and friends, and bosses) in the hope of it turning out differently this time. Now it seems to me that the less likely it is that the script will be flipped--the more the withholding or abusive behavior escalates--the more the actively codependent, self-image-impaired person is drawn to the bad relationship.

That's not about enjoyment.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:40 PM on March 26, 2012

Mod note: Folks, direct answers towards the OP and don't make this about some larger issue please. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:48 PM on March 26, 2012

The hard part is, I just don't know what to do with these feelings. I still feel obsessive about him.

You keep going to counselling.

I feel incredible guilt that I participated in having an affair with him that could have destroyed his marriage and kids' life and my marriage.

No, really, his own behavior, prior to you and after you would do that. You would have a very minor role but not the leading one.

I'm thinking of trying a new counselor because I have been seeing mine for a few months and although he has helped me some (he recommended David Burns' work, which has helped me a lot), I don't feel like I am getting to a place I need to be.

Then you really need to do that.

You can let this consume you for the rest of your life and replay this over and over again and feel hurt and ashamed and guilty but all that will happen is that that's all you'll experience in your life. Your husband is willing to work with you and I really suggest that you focus on that and on your counselling. The issues you need to be focusing on stem from before this. Use this situation as a catalyst to deal with them now, once and for all, in a manner that has a positive outcome for you and your marriage.
posted by mleigh at 6:54 PM on March 26, 2012

Mod note: From the OP:

Thank you everyone for the responses. I appreciate them.

Just wanted to clarify a few things:

I didn't find the sex "hot" and wonderful. The first time it happened, I was in the restroom at work and he came in (seeing me go in there). At this point we had flirted heavily, kissed, but no actual sex. He proceeded to turn me around and pull my pants down and have sex with me right there in the bathroom without preamble. I did not object, so I understand it was consensual, but it was NOT enjoyable. I threw up when he was done and spent the rest of the day crying. It actually hurt (he made me bleed).

I realize I continued to seek him out after this and do not feel that I wasn't 100% responsible for what I got, but I truly was not experiencing some wonderful, fun fantasy. The second time sex happened I did initiate it and I felt that at this point I would try to right the "wrong" of how our first sexual experience happened and trying the things he wanted to do. Things got more violent sexually and emotionally for me. During this time I was constantly having panic attacks (I was put on Klonopin, Xanax, Ambien, and Lexapro in the period of one month). Now that the affair is over, I am off everything but the Lexapro.

In my delusion I thought that he was a really good guy, despite the evidence to the contrary in how he treated me, who was just stepping out on his marriage because he thought I was so wonderful, and that he would eventually care for me a great deal the more I did for him. I thought I could show him how wonderful I could be and get him to act differently then he was showing me. It was really sick, codependent, and me acting out completely on my issues. It seems ridiculous to type that out now and I am working through my issues with the sexual abuse/physical abuse/emotional abuse I experienced growing up to work through what made this seem like an okay situation for me to be in. I was definitely trying to right the wrongs of the past, get someone who wasn't respectable to choose and validate me against the odds, etc. I recognize what was at play.

Prior to this affair I had only consensually had sex with my husband, which was never anything like this and I don't feel the need or desire for this type of sex in my life.

Anyway, I appreciate the advice and I realize now I need to seriously consider leaving this job for my self and my marriage. Hanging around while he continues to do his thing isn't going to help me heal from this experience. I also understand the real victims here are my husband and his family. I don't want pity or to come off as the victim. I fully own that I CHOSE on my own accord to engage with this guy. It doesn't matter how strong he came on to me, I was receptive and chose to go down that road. I do own that and I didn't intend to come off as "victim". To deny that there is pain for me in this situation too, though, would be false.

posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:00 PM on March 26, 2012

Response by poster: OP, you have alluded to this yourself, but is it possible your ongoing obsession with this guy is born of a desire to continue the self-harm of the affair? You may know intellectually that it's over, but perhaps the obsession is because the unhealthy parts in your head are not yet ready to give him up, and to some degree desire to reinstate the relationship. Perhaps your desire to understand and somehow become closer to this man represents a unmet desire for understanding and closeness with people who abused you in your childhood.

Whatever the case, ultimately worrying about this guy is a subconscious distraction from addressing the really hard, sad, painful stuff going on in your head and heart. You do have to own your participation in the relationship with this guy and not think of yourself as a victim. But not because you have to accept you want kinky bathroom sex, but because you really need to own that you have some seriously torn up parts inside you left over from your childhood.

It sounds like somebody broke something inside you a long time ago. It wasn't your fault and it is nothing to be ashamed about, it happens to a lot of us. The way you tried to fix those broken parts is incredibly regrettable but understandable if you've never been given the tools to cope. But unfortunately even though someone else broke you, only you can fix you. That is (hopefully) what the therapy is for. If you aren't finding that in therapy, then maybe you can talk with your therapist about it, and if things still don't work find a new one?

When you see this guy remember that he is not the disease. He is a symptom. And as such he is not worth focusing on.
posted by Anonymous at 7:07 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

I have not had the same experience as you.

However, I had a messed-up childhood filled with different kinds of abuse, so I know what that is like. I also know what it is like to find yourself choosing patterns of behavior that you KNOW are harmful and unhealthy, but that somehow replay some old script in your head that you just can't quite get out of. People who were hurt as kids often try and find ways to keep hurting themselves as adults.

Knowing that, and realizing the role of past unresolved issues in your life, does not make you "own" your behavior any less. You are owning it plenty. You just need to change the script in your head.

For me, I needed Something Else.

You sound smart, but you are never going to be able to out-think your way out of this one. It won't ever make sense.

You just need to find the Something Else. Tell your brain new healthy stories with your therapist. Find Something Else that absorbs you so fully and so wonderfully your forget the old script of crazy you want to replay with this guy. Maybe it will be re-dedicating yourself to your marriage. Or a new sport, or a new art, or something that fills up your brain so much you can leave the crazy behind. It takes time, but it sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

And also, please try and leave that job. Good luck.
posted by pantarei70 at 7:08 PM on March 26, 2012 [2 favorites]

Wow, that update was hard to read.

I just want to say that I'd ignore any voices, real or perceived that tell you that you should be harder on yourself in this situation. It sounds like you've had a really hard road and you're working hard to get better.

You should take whatever opportunities that you have to separate yourself from this toxic situation without any hesitation. Good luck and I really respect your strength in trying to get better.
posted by mercredi at 7:08 PM on March 26, 2012 [4 favorites]

I did not object, so I understand it was consensual

Oh, this breaks my heart. I see how deeply you are enmeshed in your damaged self-image. Please, please read Facing Codependence as soon as you can get your hands on it.

For future reference, "consensual sex" is sex where both parties actively consent. You deserve that. You don't deserve anything less.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:21 PM on March 26, 2012 [6 favorites]

Response by poster: I posted before I saw the update. Jesus, OP. I'm so sorry.

The second time sex happened I did initiate it and I felt that at this point I would try to right the "wrong" of how our first sexual experience happened and trying the things he wanted to do.

This is not actually uncommon for rape victims, especially victims of date rape or so-called "gray rape". There was a case of a doctor (I think he was a doctor), a guy who seemed super perfect and upstanding and had raped something on the order of 100+ women by drugging them and raping them in a hotel room. Many of these women actually came back to see him again, and some of them were attacked a second time. The women who went back said they were trying to figure out what had happened, or take control of their sexual agency, or prove to themselves that they were in control. So OP, you are not alone in this behavior and please please please do not mistake it for a desire to carry out an affair.

Honestly with that update I would hesitate to even call this an affair. A cycle of abuse is more like it.
posted by Anonymous at 7:45 PM on March 26, 2012

I did not object, so I understand it was consensual

That isn't necessarily so. did you want to have sex with him that first time?

If you didn't, it wasn't consensual. Whether you had time to object or not. Just because you didn't SAY no doesn't mean that it was consensual, necessarily.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

I missed this line:

I work with the OM and he is no longer on speaking terms with me after I ended the affair.

IMO, if you have to work with him and he's "not on speaking terms with you" in the context of work because you ended the affair with him, that is very clearly sexual harrassment/hostile work environment. I really think you should let his investigators know about this.
posted by cairdeas at 8:15 PM on March 26, 2012 [4 favorites]

Wow, so glad that the issue of you "enjoying it" seems to have been clarified...

Nthing suggestions to get yourself into support groups for childhood sexual abuse and ACOA, as well as a therapist well versed in both topics who can coach you in self-guided CBT. Did you know that the experience of surviving child sexual abuse is comparable to surviving a concentration camp? Let alone surviving in an alcoholic family to boot. Be gentle with yourself and get thee to therapy. You'll learn about dissociation as well as learned helplessness that comes with being a sexual abuse survivor. Many, many people who have lived through what you have experienced can describe exactly the dynamic you describe -- of not even really knowing these issues were there until [profoundly negative experience] happened.

I did not object, so I understand it was consensual...

No, the argument that "she didn't say no = yes" does not apply here. Be gentle with yourself, OP.
posted by human ecologist at 8:16 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

I think what would help you enormously is to reframe this as not being an affair.

I don't want you to reframe it as you being a victim, but I don't want you to be placing the burden of responsibility for this onto yourself - it should not be there, regardless of whether you feel you sought him out after the first time.

I would also suggest that you take another look at leaving this workplace. This space contains one man who treated you extremely badly (and that is putting it kindly) and is the environment in which it occurred. Whilst it is understandable that you do not wish to leave, and I would carefully analyze the why behind that, I feel that it would help you enormously psychologically to do so and it would serve as another means for you to start building some boundaries that will help you to protect yourself.
posted by mleigh at 8:22 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

I want you to know that I understand why you went back to him. You said yourself you're the child of an alcoholic and that you endured sexual and physical abuse. There are incredibly complex power dynamics at work in the relationships between narcissists, which many alcoholics are, and their children. Abuse survivors are also left with a Gordion knot of power and control issues; I understand, believe me. This guy sounds like a master at the power and control dynamics typified by alcoholic and abuser/abused relationships. I can't pull apart all of this for you here and now, because it is some very complicated stuff that you are hashing out with your therapist, but I can tell you that he is preying on the power and control disparity that you experienced in your upbringing in a spectacularly twisted, sick way. He's an abuser, and he's using the guilt and confusion you carry from your childhood against you, as skilled abusers do. He's feeding off of humiliating his wife, you, women like you, and making himself feel more powerful in the process. I'd go so far as to say that's basically the mindset of a power rapist and I do believe that he took advantage of you sexually. But I am not going to label you a victim because you do not view yourself that way and obviously do not wish to. That's your choice and I respect that choice.

But I want to say something to you. Power, sex and control are things that can become really tangled up when you grow up in an abusive household. I want you to know that part of breaking out of the abused/abuser mindset is finally realizing that you are not responsible for other people's abusive behavior toward you. You are not to blame for that. You are not responsible for a sadist attacking you in a bathroom in at a party. You are not a home-wrecker because he cheats on his wife and humiliates his entire family unit by behaving like some kind of brutish, id-driven animal that must have dominion over others. He is responsible for humiliating his wife and family. He is responsible for manipulating a person who was brainwashed early on by abusive, boundary-smashing behavior into believing that submitting and meeting abuse with love will save the tiny little kernel of person inside themselves from being entirely obliterated. He is responsible for using your desire to turn harm into love to save your very Self against you. That is what abusers do, that is what he has done to you, and he is responsible for doing that.

You have a right to accept responsibility for your behavior toward your husband, your marriage, and yourself. You have a right to own the wrongs you've done. But you are not responsible for everything in this situation, you don't have to take on more than is yours, and you are not a terrible person for doing what you did. You made a mistake, you've owned up to it, you've told your husband, you're working on it. This guy has not done any of those things. He's chosen, instead, to treat you like a subhuman, continue to lie to his wife, and abuse his position at work. If you want to tell yourself something over and over again to push him out of your head finally and once and for all, tell yourself that he's weak. Tell yourself that he's a disgusting coward. Tell yourself he can't face the consequences that you have not only faced but continue to face every day. Tell yourself that, really? You are the powerful one in this situation. Tell yourself you have power. Make your first powerful act to smash him over and over again in your imagination for as long as it takes to turn him to dust in your mind.

I'm going to encourage you to find another job, even though I do not believe that you should be the one to pay for this mutual mistake with your job. But he is poison, a liar, a coward and an asshole, and he's not going to be the one to do the right thing in any situation. He plays mind games, and you are vulnerable to those games. You nor your marriage need this kind of toxic, twisted person in your sphere any longer.

Best of luck. You're doing everything you can to make amends and fix this situation.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 8:41 PM on March 26, 2012 [18 favorites]

OP, I think the absolute worst thing you can do in this situation is to leave your job. For one thing, you don't want to. For another, I think the idea that you should leave is a very demeaning, almost sexist suggestion. It buys into the antiquated view of women as slaves of their emotions, and leaving would likely feel to you as though you are fleeing some bad thing you did. You were not defiled by some rake. You are not a fallen woman who has to "go away." You made a mistake. There is no reason why you should disrupt your resume and your career progression because Mr. Big Swinging Dick took advantage of you. To hell with him. Hold your head up high, show up at work, work through your issues. But don't run away ... I suspect you will hate yourself even more if you do that.

To leave this job will feel like a defeat, and it will be treating your feelings about this asshole as if they take precedence over your career.
posted by jayder at 9:06 PM on March 26, 2012 [3 favorites]

I think an abused child can grow up and sometimes see a pattern like this of choosing an abuser and reenacting the abuse as an opportunity to learn how to heal from that original damage. Not everyone can, but with therapy and knowledge, some can see the connection between the abuser of the past and a present attraction to a similar character.

Trying to make it come out right is the way many people express this reenactment. The trick is to catch ourselves doing it and really think about and talk about what went on back then and how we were hurt and what kinds of unanswered questions have left a void in our hearts. For some it is as if we haven't really looked at it and decided to reject the abuser and the abuse, so now, speaking decisively in our adult voice we tell ourselves that the behavior and all that was done to hurt us was entirely wrong, not our fault, not acceptable.

Then we can work at learning to identify any persons who provoke similar responses to those we had as a abused child or who offer the same overwhelmingly attractive power dynamic or whatever sets up the painful situation and we resolve that we will in future avoid such people and situations as we would a poisonous serpent for they are poisonous to us.

Your abusers fed you emotional poison and taught you to swallow it. You sound as if you have come a very long way and landed on your feet with a loving husband. Now work hard with your therapist, with books, with groups, with yourself to become convinced that this is not what you want in your life and I think you can review it, reject it and heal. You can make sure that you feed your emotional life with good experience, with love.

You can learn from this and be stronger and wiser and you can heal emotionally. I don't know that we all heal completely. I think not all of us do. But if we work at it, we can get the poison out of our selves and not have to be driven by it in the future. You might one day be able to look back at this and realize that without it you would not have had the impetus to seek healing for your emotional self.

My very best wishes to you for a happy future.
posted by Anitanola at 9:39 PM on March 26, 2012

I have a really hard time seeing him at work, but due to this economy and bills and everything, I can't really just leave my job. I don't want to either. I love my job. I feel angry and used and that he is a "bad" guy and I keep basically cyber-stalking his life to try and gather "clues" about him. I hate engaging in this behavior and it's counterproductive to my marriage getting better and me getting better. But I keep feeling like I will finally find something that makes me feel better about this situation.

Leave the job.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:41 PM on March 26, 2012

If you aren't liking your therapist, try someone new. There's no evidence you shouldn't trust yourself on this one. You can even just take a week or two off and try out some other therapists in that time. Therapists are just people, and it takes some trial and error to find one you really click with.

I am no HR attorney, but in your shoes, I might talk to one to see what options I might have.
posted by salvia at 11:00 PM on March 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

OP, the first encounter you described in your update is a rape. If he's under investigation for what he did with a group of your coworkers I would get in touch with that lawyer pronto. RAINN has been suggested in other threads: call them too.
posted by brujita at 11:41 PM on March 26, 2012 [7 favorites]

I recognize myself so completely in some of the things you wrote (the bathroom scene, the doing it again to right the wrong of the initial encounter, trying to squeeze some emotion out of truly unavailable/jerkish people in a quest to right all sorts of wrongs etc. ) that it’s uncanny. After way more fumbling and stumbling around, even endangering myself than you have done, I think I may have finally got a new and more productive way to think about them. I’ll go into that a bit, in case it is helpful to you, but first some more specific advice, such as it is (so skip the second part if it feels irrelevant - this got awfully long):

1. The one book that has helped me enormously is called The Narcissistic Family. In very broad outline, the premise of the book is that children from families in which the needs of the parent system are strongly and consistently prioritized above the needs of the children often develop an impaired sense of self and inadequate life or interpersonal skills/strategies. As a consequence, they can face struggles which are unintelligible to someone from a different background (for instance, in your case, there are plenty of people who do not get why you didn’t simply report the guy after the first encounter, why you didn’t kick him off etc – hence the “you must have enjoyed it at some level”). It goes without saying that growing up with alcoholism, physical and sexual abuse or the more acknowledged forms of emotional abuse all fall under the scope of “narcissistic family”.

Growing up in this kind of environment (or with the message that “you only count as and when the whim takes me”, or “you only count under certain, heavily underspecified circumstances – so keep trying, you might get lucky on occasion”), several things are bound to happen, which can be grouped as follows: firstly, you develop strategies for coping which help you in childhood, but which are often counter-productive if they are carried over into adulthood. Secondly, you develop a set of implicit beliefs which are often damaging and of which you are frequently unaware. Thirdly, you end up with underdeveloped skills, for instance you may have no idea how to express your needs, or even how to recognize them, or find saying “no” incredibly hard in a visceral sort of way etc.

What I found most useful about the book is that it is relatively light on theory, but includes a lot of case studies and actually exercises (very easy and doable ones) designed to help you with at least the initial steps over some of the hurdles people from this kind of background are facing. I found this incredibly useful – after some initial insights, other approaches seemed to just contribute to me getting more and more aggravated just for the sake of it, whilst this book contributed not just knowledge, but new skills and abilities.

2. I do agree with everybody above who advises you to find another job and put as much distance between guy and you as you can. If this is not easily done (because of financial fears and insecurity, or because you find that despite putting physical distance between you and the guy you are still obsessing, etc.), I suggest you come up with a plan. For instance, start looking for alternative jobs, send out feelers into the market. If it turns out that having an additional skill would help you in your job search, take steps to work on that (night-classes, self-teaching etc.). Or do anything else which takes your obsession with this guy/how he wronged you/your guilt and makes it work FOR you, rather than you being at its mercy.

3. In terms of therapy – as someone above suggested, could you try more practically-oriented therapy instead or alongside talk therapy? On this again I would strongly recommend the book from point 1 – they explain that for situations such as yours it is extremely important to get the right therapeutic approach, adequate to your situation – other approaches, which work well for others (such as standing your ground and/or confronting the other person), can actually contribute to the damage if you are not ready.

And here’s what I figured and where I’m coming from:

More than half of my relationships were relationships I didn’t want, with people I felt no attraction to, either romantically or sexually but was actually repulsed by (it took me waaaaay longer than you to get my wake-up call).

All of them involved me getting into ambiguous situations with people whom I judged “safe” – safe either because they were too old/too young to be interested in me, or because we were friends, or they were taken, or I was taken, whatever. The situations were such that, once the other person’s intentions became clear, I thought participating in them was tantamount to consent and refusing would have meant I had lead them on: we were alone late at night, or alone in an intimate space (such as my room in a shared house), etc. So, because I had done something which might suggest consent, I thought I had no choice but to act as though I had actually consented. And then, because I had sex with them, I had to have a relationship with them, even if I continued to find the sex distressing, or else I would be unclean.

There is a point, or rather several, to this seemingly irrelevant excursion into my own past, and which I have learned, in time, evidences a pattern which is not at all unique to me:

1. Sexual abuse in your childhood/ adolescence is not the only way in which you develop vulnerabilities of this kind. I think the triggers can be much more subtle and internalized from many types of noxious past interactions with caregivers, not just sexual ones, for instance beliefs like: you are probably getting what you deserve, you are the cause of the situation, there are circumstances in which you cannot but relinquish your power, when shit happens you just work harder and harder until you can make shit un-happen, your desires don’t really matter, and many, many others.

2. It is not just in sexual situations that the above mentioned beliefs come to the fore. For example, people pleasing behavior can arise with friends, with work colleagues, with romantic partners, etc.

3. You don’t have to be an utter and obvious wreck in order to be vulnerable in this way. In most areas of my life, I have solid coping abilities, I’d actually say that I am more resilient than others, don’t give in to bullying etc. Still, I do have a couple of buttons which, if pushed (intentionally or not), transform me into something I strongly feel I am mostly not. It’s a good idea to recognize what gives people access to these buttons, and then avoid those situations as much as possible, cause once they are pushed, it is often too late.

4. It is not only evil or ill-intentioned people who find/push these buttons. Obviously, you are a target for people who are good at sniffing out your vulnerabilities and willing to exploit them (as seems to be the case with this guy). But not everybody falls into this category. For example, I am convinced that some of the people on my “really, really didn’t want to” list had no ill intentions whatsoever, and I also know them to not be callous or cruel or uncaring - but they are extremely bad at reading others. I’m saying this because equating perpetrators with evil intent still leaves you open to all the other ones who unwittingly tap into your vulnerabilities.

5. And this brings me to my final point. I, too, disagree with jayder and all the others who reproach you with your framing yourself as a victim – in a very important sense you are. Where I do agree with them though is that once you have recognized the ways in which you were a victim (a victim of this guy’s actions, a victim of your own background etc.), the best thing to do is to transcend this framing and to assume responsibility for your future. By this I mean that once you see what led to the situation you’re in (including your past) you say until you come to recognize that “I now have options which I didn’t have as a child: I can protest when someone trespasses against me or my boundaries, I can remove myself from bad situations (as you did!), I am allowed to advocate for myself/have an opinion/change my mind, I am not responsible for someone else’s wants, to the extent that I want to assume responsibility for somebody else I realize this is done freely and can never be something I can or should try to have complete control over etc.” A good therapist will help you assume reasonable responsibility and get rid of the shame and guilt. It might sounds counter-intuitive to anyone who has no direct experience of this – but in your case assuming total, unselective and unguided responsibility as well as feeling shame and guilt is counter-productive – you do this anyway as one of the more ingrained interaction habits, and is one of the things which can keep this pattern going. Strongly, strongly suggest a good therapist.

I’m very happy for you that you have your husbands support – good luck.
posted by miorita at 1:21 AM on March 27, 2012 [17 favorites]

That's an appalling story. I count it as one of the worst things I have ever read on the green.

Before you do ANYTHING else I strongly recommend that you consult an employment lawyer. I think you should do it right away, like, now, today. The reason I think this is because the guy is under investigation. You might be able to make things worse for him. Or it may turn out after considering the lawyer's advice that it would be further damaging to you. But why not show the lawyer this very thread? If you decide not to proceed, no harm, no foul.

I think jayder's idea that you should be able to go into that workplace with your head held high is a nice one, but I think that'll only be possible if this guy is suitably executed with his head displayed on a pike as a warning to others. Er, I mean, if he is fired. It would be nice if we could all stride through life facing our tormentors without being retraumatized by it, but that's not really how it works for many people. So some part of your plan will probably need to involve getting out of the job. Why not sign up with about 10 temp agencies? At least one of them should be able to find you something to keep body and soul together. But, again, I think you should talk to an employment lawyer first.

p.s. I agree that your first encounter with him does not sound consensual and that it is not surprising that you went back to him to overwrite it so that it would turn out not to have been what it was. Since you worked with the guy and saw him as a source of friendly flirtation, of course you wanted to rewrite the story so that he remained friendly instead of hostile, because the alternative was that you were working with a dangerous enemy. I, too, recall reading that story about the guy who acquaintance-raped loads of women in his peripheral social circle and because he roofied them, most of them weren't sure what had happened and they tried to resolve their confusion by rebuilding friendly relations with him. So the fact that you kept going back doesn't even necessarily mean there was something deeply wrong with you in the first place - I mean sure there were undoubtedly childhood issues and such, but I want to discourage you from seeing yourself as Dark. Damaged. Destructive. D-words. You sound like a reasonable person having the same reactions to being traumatized as lots of people would have had.
posted by tel3path at 5:14 AM on March 27, 2012 [6 favorites]

I apologize for what I wrote earlier -- I had no idea that the sexual affair was so one-sided, and I agree with the other posters that this sounds like rape. I'm very sorry for contributing to any guilt you might have felt over this situation.

I think you are obsessing because in addition to whatever issues you started with (trying to get him to love you, etc.), you have been traumatized by this man. I agree with the posters who say that you should move on as quickly as possible (and to get some legal advice for a sexual harassment case).

I'm very sorry for what happened to you. It will get better.
posted by sockratties at 8:01 AM on March 27, 2012

After reading the update I'd also like to retract my less than supportive words. Regardless of how the emotional aspect started, what happened to you sounds a lot like rape to me. I'm so, so, sorry.

Not saying NO, NEVER equals implied consent... doesn't matter what happened leading up to that moment so please go a little easier on yourself in that department.

I would definitely speak to the investigator dealing with the sexual harassment issues other women have had with this person. It seems to me that the ideal situation would be for this POS to be dismissed at minimum or imprisoned at best. This kind of loser should NOT be allowed to repeat his actions and there is no reason for you to lose a job you otherwise love over it.

Do NOT feel badly for him, he has caused tremendous damage to you and several other women. You mention that you are worried about his wife and child... consider how poorly he treats them. If he's date raping and harassing women at his workplace, what about the people in his life who maybe cannot get away. Coming forward might just be the biggest favour you can do them.
posted by Beacon Inbound at 9:30 AM on March 27, 2012

Mod note: Folks maybe take the "this was/wasn't rape" stuff down a notch? It threatens to overtake this thread entirely, please answer the question being asked which was and is not "Was this rape?" Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:28 AM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]

If you do choose to leave you job, please don't look at it as defeat or demeaning. You are choosing something better for yourself. You are choosing to leave a work environment that employs predatory men. You are better than that. You are not "running away." Working there is making you physically ill. You are choosing your health. And you can hold your head up high no matter what you do because this affair should not and does not define you. Hold you head up high because ended this affair. Hold your head up high because and know you worthy of health, stability, and a safe working environment.
posted by OsoMeaty at 10:28 AM on March 27, 2012 [4 favorites]

I agree with those who have suggested that you speak with a lawyer specializing in employment law before you speak to the investigator at work or anyone else at your job about this. You are in a vulnerable state and should have the assistance of a trained professional to protect you legally, represent your best interests, and run interference for you should you choose to involve yourself in the OM's investigation.

Choosing to move on from your painful, toxic work situation is not demeaning or weak. It's smart to take care of yourself, and if taking care of yourself means leaving this situation so you can have some necessary space to actually heal, I think that should be a higher priority than toughing it out at work just to prove a point to some jerk who probably doesn't care either way. Sometimes walking away from a situation is just as gutsy as choosing to stay. This may be one of those times.
posted by anonnymoose at 11:04 AM on March 27, 2012 [4 favorites]

If you do speak to a lawyer who specializes in employment law please don't worry about being judged by your attorney -- they're meant to be your advocate. You can set up initial appointments with a couple of people and pick someone you feel comfortable with.
posted by mercredi at 12:49 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]

I'd just like to make one point explicit, OP: the reasons why you're cyber obsessing (not "cyberstalking", a term that's often used colloquially, but it of course is not "stalking" if you're looking at information that he's published for the world to see and aren't sending him freaky /unwanted messages) is because you're patrolling your environment for danger.

The bathroom incident has been called "date rape" in this thread, clearly not with any implication that it's less serious, nor do I imply this myself. But bathrooms are for excretion, not dating.

In your situation I would also be obsessively looking for information about what he's doing. I don't know how effective it is, as he's not likely to put on Foursquare that he's by the ladies' loos. But I'd be looking for that information any way I could find it. Because I'd want to know if the coast was clear so I could go to the bathroom, which I should be able to do in my workplace without thinking about it.

I don't think the source of your obsession is just some bunny-boiling thing. I think you're trying to protect yourself.
posted by tel3path at 1:29 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]