Should I try to fix a jerk?
February 7, 2012 12:53 PM Subscribe
How can I, or should I, once again point out that my boyfriend is kind of a jerk?
He's talented enough that we've started a project based upon his talents, with the idea that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. Unfortunately he's also emotionally immature: arrogant, super-critical of others in the same field, and quite sensitive to criticism himself. I've previously tried to point out that he needs to dial back the arrogance, find some humility, but it's always perceived as an attack and he gets very emotional.
Our first public event was this past weekend, and it went fantastic, everyone loved it. But it would appear he's botched the post-event product we've promised. It might be salvageable, but it won't be as good as we've promised, and it's delaying our delivery.
This is the best example I've ever seen from him of why he needs to change his behavior, but he's making excuses. I'm embarrassed, and frustrated, I want to say "see I told you so," but I know that's a bad idea. How should I handle this?
He's talented enough that we've started a project based upon his talents, with the idea that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. Unfortunately he's also emotionally immature: arrogant, super-critical of others in the same field, and quite sensitive to criticism himself. I've previously tried to point out that he needs to dial back the arrogance, find some humility, but it's always perceived as an attack and he gets very emotional.
Our first public event was this past weekend, and it went fantastic, everyone loved it. But it would appear he's botched the post-event product we've promised. It might be salvageable, but it won't be as good as we've promised, and it's delaying our delivery.
This is the best example I've ever seen from him of why he needs to change his behavior, but he's making excuses. I'm embarrassed, and frustrated, I want to say "see I told you so," but I know that's a bad idea. How should I handle this?
How do you feel his botching of the product is related to his arrogance? I'm not understanding the connection.
posted by timsneezed at 12:58 PM on February 7, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by timsneezed at 12:58 PM on February 7, 2012 [6 favorites]
Our first public event was this past weekend, and it went fantastic, everyone loved it. But it would appear he's botched the post-event product we've promised.
I don't see how this (which seems to be the thing that is prompting you to say "I told you so") has anything to do with him being a jerk. Saying "I told you so" is rarely very helpful, but surely it's particularly unhelpful when this doesn't seem to be what you told him.
Or perhaps you just left out a key detail? Was it him being arrogant that lead to the "post event product" being botched?
posted by yoink at 12:59 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't see how this (which seems to be the thing that is prompting you to say "I told you so") has anything to do with him being a jerk. Saying "I told you so" is rarely very helpful, but surely it's particularly unhelpful when this doesn't seem to be what you told him.
Or perhaps you just left out a key detail? Was it him being arrogant that lead to the "post event product" being botched?
posted by yoink at 12:59 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
You can't make other people change. Can you see a future with him if he continues to act exactly this same way? If not, tell him so. And then follow through, if he still refuses to make an effort to not be an ass.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:59 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:59 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is a pretty clear cut case of DTMFA. You don't like/enjoy/appreciate his general personality, you've discussed the matter and results are unsatisfactory.
Plus, his behavior is hindering your professional development.
People don't change, you are feeding the drama by staying, it's not your responsibility to 'gently' (or otherwise) convince him to treat people well.
posted by bilabial at 1:02 PM on February 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
Plus, his behavior is hindering your professional development.
People don't change, you are feeding the drama by staying, it's not your responsibility to 'gently' (or otherwise) convince him to treat people well.
posted by bilabial at 1:02 PM on February 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
Is he a jerk? Or is he a person who is talented at [thing] but not cut out to do [thing] professionally? I don't know how you, as his girlfriend, can diplomatically tell him if it's the second option, but that's what this sounds like to me.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:02 PM on February 7, 2012
posted by DestinationUnknown at 1:02 PM on February 7, 2012
People don't change, you are feeding the drama by staying, it's not your responsibility to 'gently' (or otherwise) convince him to treat people well.
People do change. I changed, even though it was too late. But I did it. I just needed some time away to do some introspection. YMMV.
posted by some loser at 1:04 PM on February 7, 2012 [11 favorites]
People do change. I changed, even though it was too late. But I did it. I just needed some time away to do some introspection. YMMV.
posted by some loser at 1:04 PM on February 7, 2012 [11 favorites]
What can you do right now to un-botch the post-event product? You should focus on that right now and, without any comments about why it's botched, enlist him to help with the unbotching. Maybe that will be a good learning experience all around.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Don't expect both the relationship and the business to prosper. On a re-read, maybe you shouldn't expect either of them to prosper.
Short term, telling him he botched the product or that it's his fault is counter-productive. If it's true, he knows he botched it and telling him so is just going to bring on more of the defensive behavior you don't like. The most productive way forward is to be super supportive. Let him run with fixing it and getting it out. Ask him what he needs. Do not let a single word of criticism out of your mouth and assure him that you have total confidence that he can fix it. This is the only way to get the product fixed and out without drama.
Long term, get out of the business, there's no way to be the girlfriend of an immature arrogant jerk who can't deliver on his promises and to run a business with him unless you are happy to feel like this on a regular basis. Also think of getting out of the relationship, this doesn't sound like a super long term connection to me.
posted by yogalemon at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
Short term, telling him he botched the product or that it's his fault is counter-productive. If it's true, he knows he botched it and telling him so is just going to bring on more of the defensive behavior you don't like. The most productive way forward is to be super supportive. Let him run with fixing it and getting it out. Ask him what he needs. Do not let a single word of criticism out of your mouth and assure him that you have total confidence that he can fix it. This is the only way to get the product fixed and out without drama.
Long term, get out of the business, there's no way to be the girlfriend of an immature arrogant jerk who can't deliver on his promises and to run a business with him unless you are happy to feel like this on a regular basis. Also think of getting out of the relationship, this doesn't sound like a super long term connection to me.
posted by yogalemon at 1:05 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is something that would really need details to answer. I realize that specifics may make that hard, but there's a difference between botching the product because he overestimated his abilities and botching the product because he called an important client a dickhead.
If he's really that intractable then the best you can do is sit him down and tell him that his attitude and its consequences are making it kind of hard to be with him. He gets emotional about it because he knows it's a problem and he doesn't like thinking about it. Maybe if faced with the chance to avoid losing something he cares about by changing, he'll change.
If he doesn't then you should probably move on.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:07 PM on February 7, 2012
If he's really that intractable then the best you can do is sit him down and tell him that his attitude and its consequences are making it kind of hard to be with him. He gets emotional about it because he knows it's a problem and he doesn't like thinking about it. Maybe if faced with the chance to avoid losing something he cares about by changing, he'll change.
If he doesn't then you should probably move on.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:07 PM on February 7, 2012
Yes, it's not clear how his behavior botched the post-event product, whatever that means.
Otherwise, you probably need to lead him to the answers. Put him in the driver's seat, so to speak and let him succeed or fail and discuss what did and did not work.
Something like this:
"Hey baby, you know I love you, can we talk about what went wrong with X? Doesn't have to be now, but when you're ready."
If he says something like Fred did Y and that clearly botched things, then agree to ditch Fred and get someone else to do Y next time. If, after 2 or 3 instances of this, the problem still occurs, then you can point ways his behavior contributed to the problem. Gently, of course, when you two are alone, after the problem has passed.
The goal here is fix problems, not specifically him. He is what he is, he'll have to want to change on his own. Pointing how his attitude is getting in the way of his talents might convince him to do so. But it might take a while. You up for that?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:09 PM on February 7, 2012
Otherwise, you probably need to lead him to the answers. Put him in the driver's seat, so to speak and let him succeed or fail and discuss what did and did not work.
Something like this:
"Hey baby, you know I love you, can we talk about what went wrong with X? Doesn't have to be now, but when you're ready."
If he says something like Fred did Y and that clearly botched things, then agree to ditch Fred and get someone else to do Y next time. If, after 2 or 3 instances of this, the problem still occurs, then you can point ways his behavior contributed to the problem. Gently, of course, when you two are alone, after the problem has passed.
The goal here is fix problems, not specifically him. He is what he is, he'll have to want to change on his own. Pointing how his attitude is getting in the way of his talents might convince him to do so. But it might take a while. You up for that?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:09 PM on February 7, 2012
it's always perceived as an attack and he gets very emotional.
That's because you are criticizing his personality, which is something he's unlikely to be able to change at will -- nor should he based on one person's opinion.
Basing one of your projects on his talents means you are pretty much subject to the whims of that talent and the person it's attached to. Not every couple is suited to work together on stuff, many people find that it brings about adversarial qualities in their relationship.
posted by hermitosis at 1:10 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
That's because you are criticizing his personality, which is something he's unlikely to be able to change at will -- nor should he based on one person's opinion.
Basing one of your projects on his talents means you are pretty much subject to the whims of that talent and the person it's attached to. Not every couple is suited to work together on stuff, many people find that it brings about adversarial qualities in their relationship.
posted by hermitosis at 1:10 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
General rule- don't start professional working relationships with people you Know you are going to have to say "I told you so" to. Working with close friends or lovers is amost always really really bad.
why did you start a project with the dude when you thought of him as immature? Lession learned- tell your boy that you love him, but working together is a terrible damn idea.
posted by Blisterlips at 1:10 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
why did you start a project with the dude when you thought of him as immature? Lession learned- tell your boy that you love him, but working together is a terrible damn idea.
posted by Blisterlips at 1:10 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
People change, but you can't make someone change. They have to want it and part of making them want it is making the cost visible. In this case, he's a jerk and it should cost him your love. Walk away.
posted by chairface at 1:10 PM on February 7, 2012
posted by chairface at 1:10 PM on February 7, 2012
I can't believe how quick people are to leap to DTMFA answers on the basis of an incredibly scant and frankly incoherent description of a fragment of someone else's life. Anonymous, you just have not given a sufficiently full account of the situation (romantic OR business) for any of the replies you've received to be meaningful. Are there people in this world who used to be jerks and no longer are? Yes. Is it possible your boyfriend could be one of these people? Who could possibly say? Would taking him to task over this "botched" job be a helpful step towards that change? Again, who could possibly say, given the total lack of details we have about the situation.
posted by yoink at 1:11 PM on February 7, 2012 [31 favorites]
posted by yoink at 1:11 PM on February 7, 2012 [31 favorites]
There is nothing in your question that explains how your boyfriend is an arrogant jerk. Telling someone that they need to "dial back the arrogance and find some humility" and accusing them of getting too emotional sounds like an attack to me, especially when it's something said by a significant other. I would be pretty hurt if my boyfriend said something like that to me, no matter the context.
Even though your question, as asked, sounds pretty cold-hearted and frankly like you can't stand the guy, I'm guessing you do actually have some positive feelings for your boyfriend. It sounds like you're just not meant to work together professionally.
posted by wondermouse at 1:17 PM on February 7, 2012
Even though your question, as asked, sounds pretty cold-hearted and frankly like you can't stand the guy, I'm guessing you do actually have some positive feelings for your boyfriend. It sounds like you're just not meant to work together professionally.
posted by wondermouse at 1:17 PM on February 7, 2012
You didn't ask for relationship advice, so I'll skip past that.
A certain percentage of people are simply like this. Often they are quite successful, because confidence is such an integral component of leadership. On the other hand, they can be extremely difficult, and their treatment of other people can be an enormous impediment to their success, not to mention their personal relationships.
I've worked with some people like this and, and as far as I can tell, there's seldom anything a single person can say that will make them re-evaluate. They're very nature renders them more immune to critique than most people. Negative outcomes can force them to evaluate their treatment of others as a strategy, especially if they're willing to try a different approach for a while and evaluate the results objectively.
It's not a particularly good strategy to bring this up as he deals with the fallout of his screw-up; this is a recipe for defensiveness. Once the situation is past, try to help him evaluate what went wrong in terms of his behavior, not as a judgment of his nature. Identifying particular instances in which different behavior might have led to better outcomes may be the only means of encouraging him to change his approach. I doubt you will have much success in altering the underlying elements of his personality.
posted by itstheclamsname at 1:21 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
A certain percentage of people are simply like this. Often they are quite successful, because confidence is such an integral component of leadership. On the other hand, they can be extremely difficult, and their treatment of other people can be an enormous impediment to their success, not to mention their personal relationships.
I've worked with some people like this and, and as far as I can tell, there's seldom anything a single person can say that will make them re-evaluate. They're very nature renders them more immune to critique than most people. Negative outcomes can force them to evaluate their treatment of others as a strategy, especially if they're willing to try a different approach for a while and evaluate the results objectively.
It's not a particularly good strategy to bring this up as he deals with the fallout of his screw-up; this is a recipe for defensiveness. Once the situation is past, try to help him evaluate what went wrong in terms of his behavior, not as a judgment of his nature. Identifying particular instances in which different behavior might have led to better outcomes may be the only means of encouraging him to change his approach. I doubt you will have much success in altering the underlying elements of his personality.
posted by itstheclamsname at 1:21 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
What Lesser Shrew and yoink said. In other words, the only good advice we can give (based on the sparse information you've provided) is to improve the post-event product as much as you still can now, without focusing on recriminations.
Beyond that, here's all we know: your boyfriend has talents, which led to an event and a post-event product, and you loved the event but were disappointed with the product. We don't know anything else about anything your boyfriend has ever done. So we have no basis for recommending what you should do about any other issues related to his personality or your relationship.
posted by John Cohen at 1:23 PM on February 7, 2012
Beyond that, here's all we know: your boyfriend has talents, which led to an event and a post-event product, and you loved the event but were disappointed with the product. We don't know anything else about anything your boyfriend has ever done. So we have no basis for recommending what you should do about any other issues related to his personality or your relationship.
posted by John Cohen at 1:23 PM on February 7, 2012
Don't say I told you so right now. It's just going to be adding salt to the wound.
In a month, or whenever things have calmed down.. then bring it up in a calm discussion: "Hey honey, know when that project blew up at the end? I was wondering if you had any ideas how we can avoid that in the future. I also have some ideas, if you're willing to listen.."
posted by royalsong at 1:25 PM on February 7, 2012
In a month, or whenever things have calmed down.. then bring it up in a calm discussion: "Hey honey, know when that project blew up at the end? I was wondering if you had any ideas how we can avoid that in the future. I also have some ideas, if you're willing to listen.."
posted by royalsong at 1:25 PM on February 7, 2012
Should I try to fix a jerk?
No, you can't. A person can't "fix" anyone else; people can only fix themselves.
Is this a behavior pattern you can live with, or not? Only you know the answer to that.
posted by ambrosia at 1:27 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
No, you can't. A person can't "fix" anyone else; people can only fix themselves.
Is this a behavior pattern you can live with, or not? Only you know the answer to that.
posted by ambrosia at 1:27 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Rather than being the one to initiate a discussion on this, I'd let it ride until he brings it up. But conduct your own private post-mortem in the meantime so you know what he did right and wrong, and what you did right and wrong. When he curses Fred for screwing the pooch, you can say "actually, you put Fred into an impossible position by doing XYZ."
Or wait until the next project comes along and make it clear to him that he's on his own, because you're concerned his working style and personality will sabotage the project, and you don't want to be involved.
posted by adamrice at 1:30 PM on February 7, 2012
Or wait until the next project comes along and make it clear to him that he's on his own, because you're concerned his working style and personality will sabotage the project, and you don't want to be involved.
posted by adamrice at 1:30 PM on February 7, 2012
A very wise teacher I had in HS once said: "men get into relationships on the premise that their partner will never change, women get into relationships hoping to change everything about their partner." I have found that this is quite true, but it doesn't mean that it's a good idea.
I had a boyfriend several years ago that sounds just like your boyfriend. I think of him now as someone that I am glad I was with but I am really (really) glad we aren't together anymore. That relationship taught me a lot about myself and what I need/want from my life partner.
If you don't like something about your partner that is fundamental to their personality... Take good notes and do your best to avoid those qualities in your next partner. It isn't worth your time and heartache to attempt to make such a change. It probably won't work anyway.
posted by LyndsayMW at 1:32 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
I had a boyfriend several years ago that sounds just like your boyfriend. I think of him now as someone that I am glad I was with but I am really (really) glad we aren't together anymore. That relationship taught me a lot about myself and what I need/want from my life partner.
If you don't like something about your partner that is fundamental to their personality... Take good notes and do your best to avoid those qualities in your next partner. It isn't worth your time and heartache to attempt to make such a change. It probably won't work anyway.
posted by LyndsayMW at 1:32 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
Firstly, you try to fix the mistake to the best of your abilities so that you output a good product. People will forgive things being late if you commit to quality (without taking that too far and never delivering anything). Nothing in there suggests that anyone other than you is worried about the product.
Unfortunately he's also emotionally immature: arrogant, super-critical of others in the same field, and quite sensitive to criticism himself. I've previously tried to point out that he needs to dial back the arrogance, find some humility, but it's always perceived as an attack and he gets very emotional.
Some of the most talented people I know are arrogant, super-competitive and sensitive to criticism. The area you work in sounds like it needs a certain amount of ego and personal drive. I imagine he feels you're trying to quash that.
I want to say "see I told you so," but I know that's a bad idea.
Yeah, don't do that. You know what you're getting into here - working with a SO - and you also know what your relationship types are. Maybe you're only suited to one and not the other, I don't know.
But keep in mind while you feel super embarrassed about his behavior, you're taking energy away from your product. You're also placing how other people perceive you - and there's no evidence in there to suggest that they perceive you negatively - above your relationship. Is that really what you want to be doing?
posted by mleigh at 1:46 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately he's also emotionally immature: arrogant, super-critical of others in the same field, and quite sensitive to criticism himself. I've previously tried to point out that he needs to dial back the arrogance, find some humility, but it's always perceived as an attack and he gets very emotional.
Some of the most talented people I know are arrogant, super-competitive and sensitive to criticism. The area you work in sounds like it needs a certain amount of ego and personal drive. I imagine he feels you're trying to quash that.
I want to say "see I told you so," but I know that's a bad idea.
Yeah, don't do that. You know what you're getting into here - working with a SO - and you also know what your relationship types are. Maybe you're only suited to one and not the other, I don't know.
But keep in mind while you feel super embarrassed about his behavior, you're taking energy away from your product. You're also placing how other people perceive you - and there's no evidence in there to suggest that they perceive you negatively - above your relationship. Is that really what you want to be doing?
posted by mleigh at 1:46 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
you also know what your relationship types are.
That should read - you also know what your personality types are.
posted by mleigh at 1:46 PM on February 7, 2012
That should read - you also know what your personality types are.
posted by mleigh at 1:46 PM on February 7, 2012
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks all for your responses. Sorry for the lack of detail, I was trying to be too concise. We live together. I love him very much and we're very good together, in a huge number of ways. DTMFA is not an option on the table. I'm specifically trying to get suggestions on how to discuss his arrogance in a way that will be productive and beneficial rather than hurtful.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:49 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
He constantly criticizes others who release supbar products in this field, saying if they knew any damn thing it'd be like *this*. We started this project as a "this is how it should be done" kinda thing... but now we're about to release a subpar product too. He admits he botched it because of a silly mistake, that he doesn't know his equipment as well as he should.
I would hope that I won't have to say anything, that this experience will illustrate why it's a good idea to quietly prove himself, rather than putting others down. But he's had similar failures in the past (before me) and I'm concerned that, instead of being a learning experience, this will upset him, depress him and still not change his arrogant behavior.
I've previously tried to point out that he needs to dial back the arrogance, find some humility, but it's always perceived as an attack and he gets very emotional.
I'm embarrassed, and frustrated, I want to say "see I told you so," but I know that's a bad idea. How should I handle this?
I am in no way an expert on this, but it was somewhere here on AskMe (Oh! It was in this great answer - the best part being not the links, but iamkimiam's take on the conflict there) that I learned about Politeness Theory. Once you're out of crisis mode, if you're going to continue both the business and personal relationship, it might help to look at positive and negative face interactions. Whatever you need to tell him, there are ways to do it that aren't going to get his back up. Whether or not he needs to dial back anything and find some something, there are ways to to communicate that aren't so one-sided.
Should you try to fix a jerk? No. Should you learn better ways to interact with your perceived jerk, and all the real and perceived jerks you'll encounter in life? Yes.
How should you handle this? Well, you can't go back in time. Sit down with him and figure out exactly what is going to be delivered. Then work on a plan to present the difference in promises versus delivery to your customers, if you really can't provide what was promised. In the future, whatever happens, don't over-promise and under-deliver. Of course it's not simple - it's why so many business ideas never get off the ground and why your competition isn't perfect either. But your new knowledge of politeness theory will also help you deal with your customers. I owe iamkimiam a thank you for my introduction to it - it's helped me both at work and at home. (Thanks, iamkimiam!)
posted by peagood at 1:51 PM on February 7, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm embarrassed, and frustrated, I want to say "see I told you so," but I know that's a bad idea. How should I handle this?
I am in no way an expert on this, but it was somewhere here on AskMe (Oh! It was in this great answer - the best part being not the links, but iamkimiam's take on the conflict there) that I learned about Politeness Theory. Once you're out of crisis mode, if you're going to continue both the business and personal relationship, it might help to look at positive and negative face interactions. Whatever you need to tell him, there are ways to do it that aren't going to get his back up. Whether or not he needs to dial back anything and find some something, there are ways to to communicate that aren't so one-sided.
Should you try to fix a jerk? No. Should you learn better ways to interact with your perceived jerk, and all the real and perceived jerks you'll encounter in life? Yes.
How should you handle this? Well, you can't go back in time. Sit down with him and figure out exactly what is going to be delivered. Then work on a plan to present the difference in promises versus delivery to your customers, if you really can't provide what was promised. In the future, whatever happens, don't over-promise and under-deliver. Of course it's not simple - it's why so many business ideas never get off the ground and why your competition isn't perfect either. But your new knowledge of politeness theory will also help you deal with your customers. I owe iamkimiam a thank you for my introduction to it - it's helped me both at work and at home. (Thanks, iamkimiam!)
posted by peagood at 1:51 PM on February 7, 2012 [8 favorites]
Having been in this kind of situation before, I won't jump to a DTMFA, but YES this is a big deal for the relationship. Even if you don't end up sticking around as business partners, this event will always be a sticking point for you, unless you figure out how to deal with it.
This article is one of many outlining "four signs your marriage is headed towards divorce" -- which is not your situation, but the concepts are the same. So let's take a look.
Criticism -- uh huh
Contempt -- uh huh
Defensiveness -- uh huh
Stonewalling -- uh huh
And those might not be directed toward you, at least not right now, but when you hone in on his weaknesses -- which are probably the reasons he's so arrogant in the first place -- it's DANGER! DANGER, ANONYMOUS POSTER! There are very, very few reasons why you should stay in a situation where your partner makes you feel embarrassed to be associated with him or her.
On the flip side...
I'd bet you 10 bucks that all of his bluster is because he doesn't trust anyone else, but deep down he doesn't trust himself. I used to date a guy like this. It was all about how everyone else was a moron and nobody cared like he did, blah blah blah. But EVERYTHING boiled down to how he felt rejected by his dad, even though his dad had tried to teach him stuff, etc. Relationship problems, work problems, getting drunk and being a dick... it all boiled down to "I don't want to be my dad, but I don't trust myself not to turn into my dad."
I don't know how he fixed it. He married someone else, so clearly he let someone past his defenses. But I'll say that if you want to address this, you need to build up his trust in you even more than you already have -- especially because it's probably pretty tenuous after the product launch.
Don't be surprised if he lashes out at you because he's super angry at himself. He probably doesn't know how to beat himself up anymore.
posted by Madamina at 2:00 PM on February 7, 2012 [7 favorites]
This article is one of many outlining "four signs your marriage is headed towards divorce" -- which is not your situation, but the concepts are the same. So let's take a look.
Criticism -- uh huh
Contempt -- uh huh
Defensiveness -- uh huh
Stonewalling -- uh huh
And those might not be directed toward you, at least not right now, but when you hone in on his weaknesses -- which are probably the reasons he's so arrogant in the first place -- it's DANGER! DANGER, ANONYMOUS POSTER! There are very, very few reasons why you should stay in a situation where your partner makes you feel embarrassed to be associated with him or her.
On the flip side...
I'd bet you 10 bucks that all of his bluster is because he doesn't trust anyone else, but deep down he doesn't trust himself. I used to date a guy like this. It was all about how everyone else was a moron and nobody cared like he did, blah blah blah. But EVERYTHING boiled down to how he felt rejected by his dad, even though his dad had tried to teach him stuff, etc. Relationship problems, work problems, getting drunk and being a dick... it all boiled down to "I don't want to be my dad, but I don't trust myself not to turn into my dad."
I don't know how he fixed it. He married someone else, so clearly he let someone past his defenses. But I'll say that if you want to address this, you need to build up his trust in you even more than you already have -- especially because it's probably pretty tenuous after the product launch.
Don't be surprised if he lashes out at you because he's super angry at himself. He probably doesn't know how to beat himself up anymore.
posted by Madamina at 2:00 PM on February 7, 2012 [7 favorites]
People don't change
posted by bilabial at 9:02 PM on February 7
As an old fart, I cannot second this enough. It's a little harsh - people change somewhat, maybe, with a following wind... but not at their core. The core stuff doesn't change. People may kid you that they have changed. They may even kid themselves that they have changed. But apart from certain superficial adjustments that don't alter their core nature, people really don't change. Oh, you will hear many protestations against this. Many. But the longer you live, the more you will see that it's almost always true.
Tell him, in no uncertain terms, that this arrogance and these traits of his have become a serious problem for you, and that they threaten the relationship. That's the starting point. He has to realise the seriousness of the situation before there's any chance of him making a serious attempt at adjustment. But I would ask you to consider that people don't really change; not at their core.
posted by Decani at 2:00 PM on February 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by bilabial at 9:02 PM on February 7
As an old fart, I cannot second this enough. It's a little harsh - people change somewhat, maybe, with a following wind... but not at their core. The core stuff doesn't change. People may kid you that they have changed. They may even kid themselves that they have changed. But apart from certain superficial adjustments that don't alter their core nature, people really don't change. Oh, you will hear many protestations against this. Many. But the longer you live, the more you will see that it's almost always true.
Tell him, in no uncertain terms, that this arrogance and these traits of his have become a serious problem for you, and that they threaten the relationship. That's the starting point. He has to realise the seriousness of the situation before there's any chance of him making a serious attempt at adjustment. But I would ask you to consider that people don't really change; not at their core.
posted by Decani at 2:00 PM on February 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
If you won't consider DTMFA, I think you need to consider DTMFB: dump the mother-f'ing business. This is a person who can't be counted on to keep promises he makes to your customers, and who is in the habit of blaming others for his mistakes. In other words, even if he's a great boyfriend, he's a terrible coworker. You're not going to be able to convince him that he needs to change, and you're setting yourself up to be among the people he can blame when things go wrong. He is not interested in your advice or collaboration. You need to extricate yourself from the project and not work with him in the future, no matter how smart and creative he is.
posted by decathecting at 2:18 PM on February 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by decathecting at 2:18 PM on February 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
If you're criticising something he does, there are ways to do that. If you're criticising something he is, there's going to be a problem.
I'll take your word for it that you like him, though at the moment it's coming across as though you despise him.
I suggest that next time he puts someone down you say "cut that out," and if he questions that say "let's focus on getting our own product right." No getting sucked into arguments.
I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone ever to respond well to being told they're an arrogant jerk and a screwup, no matter how much evidence you can produce for the prosecution.
posted by tel3path at 2:25 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll take your word for it that you like him, though at the moment it's coming across as though you despise him.
I suggest that next time he puts someone down you say "cut that out," and if he questions that say "let's focus on getting our own product right." No getting sucked into arguments.
I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone ever to respond well to being told they're an arrogant jerk and a screwup, no matter how much evidence you can produce for the prosecution.
posted by tel3path at 2:25 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
You sound like you are embarrassed by how he is, AND the mistake he made. If you started a project recently, you are going to have mistakes. That is something you are going to have to get over if starting a business/project. No big deal. Replan, rework, redeliver. That's life in the business world. (It makes me cringe and embarrasses me too, when I make a mistake. But the only way through is to fix it and move on.)
But, I can see how you would see people filtering what they think of you through his arrogance. You really have to accept who he is apart from you. That way there is no getting embarrassed. Your identity is not his. Looking at it that way can help you stop being self conscious about him.
(this coming from a person who gets self conscious and embarrassed in both situations.)
posted by Vaike at 2:36 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
But, I can see how you would see people filtering what they think of you through his arrogance. You really have to accept who he is apart from you. That way there is no getting embarrassed. Your identity is not his. Looking at it that way can help you stop being self conscious about him.
(this coming from a person who gets self conscious and embarrassed in both situations.)
posted by Vaike at 2:36 PM on February 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Being good at criticizing and doing it frequently does not mean you're any good at creating. They're different skills (and criticism is a valuable one). But my experience is that people who spend a lot of time complaining about how everyone else does X badly and they could do X better do not understand the difference between criticism and creation, and are not often well-suited to creating.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:42 PM on February 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:42 PM on February 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
He constantly criticizes others who release supbar products in this field, saying if they knew any damn thing it'd be like *this*. We started this project as a "this is how it should be done" kinda thing... but now we're about to release a subpar product too. He admits he botched it because of a silly mistake, that he doesn't know his equipment as well as he should.
Thanks for the further info. I think you're confusing issues here. His arrogance is one problem. His botching the product is an entirely different one. You're seeing them as related because you're thinking "man, the people he's been an arrogant jerk to are really gonna laugh their asses off when they hear what a botch he made of this!" But the reason not to be an arrogant jerk is because being an arrogant jerk is not nice--it's not because you aren't actually as shit-hot as you think you are. In other words, his arrogance is a problem regardless of whether or not he's able to deliver this product successfully.
And in this case, it doesn't really sound like he's even being all that arrogant. You say he admits that he made a silly mistake. That doesn't sound like incurable arrogance. In fact it sounds like a wonderful moment to build on. Praise him for admitting error. Then deal with the mistake. The way, I think, to teach humility is to teach people that admitting mistakes isn't a grave and terrible thing. That it's actually a way to achieve your goals.
I really think the situation here is one where you don't address the earlier arrogance at all (maybe much later you can say "you know, this is why it's best not to overpromise..." or something). What you do is go hard into "how do we fix this and move on from this" mode. If you know the silly mistake then you should have a clue about how to rectify it. If you can buy any time talking contritely to buyers then it would be a good idea to have your boyfriend take on that difficult job--and work out a script beforehand that's heavy on the "I screwed up, but I'm going to make it right." This looks to me more like an opportunity to move forward than a dead end.
posted by yoink at 3:16 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
Thanks for the further info. I think you're confusing issues here. His arrogance is one problem. His botching the product is an entirely different one. You're seeing them as related because you're thinking "man, the people he's been an arrogant jerk to are really gonna laugh their asses off when they hear what a botch he made of this!" But the reason not to be an arrogant jerk is because being an arrogant jerk is not nice--it's not because you aren't actually as shit-hot as you think you are. In other words, his arrogance is a problem regardless of whether or not he's able to deliver this product successfully.
And in this case, it doesn't really sound like he's even being all that arrogant. You say he admits that he made a silly mistake. That doesn't sound like incurable arrogance. In fact it sounds like a wonderful moment to build on. Praise him for admitting error. Then deal with the mistake. The way, I think, to teach humility is to teach people that admitting mistakes isn't a grave and terrible thing. That it's actually a way to achieve your goals.
I really think the situation here is one where you don't address the earlier arrogance at all (maybe much later you can say "you know, this is why it's best not to overpromise..." or something). What you do is go hard into "how do we fix this and move on from this" mode. If you know the silly mistake then you should have a clue about how to rectify it. If you can buy any time talking contritely to buyers then it would be a good idea to have your boyfriend take on that difficult job--and work out a script beforehand that's heavy on the "I screwed up, but I'm going to make it right." This looks to me more like an opportunity to move forward than a dead end.
posted by yoink at 3:16 PM on February 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
Maybe instead of telling him "I told you so" right now, which would be rubbing it in and kind of cruel, just bring it up next time he criticizes someone else's work. ("Look, there might be reasons it didn't come out as well as they wanted it to. Remember the problems we had with our project?") He might even finally be introspective enough to remind himself on his own.
Also sometimes people who are judgmental of others are similarly harsh to themselves. If you're going to have a talk about this, that might be something to bring up.
posted by egg drop at 3:34 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also sometimes people who are judgmental of others are similarly harsh to themselves. If you're going to have a talk about this, that might be something to bring up.
posted by egg drop at 3:34 PM on February 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't find it useful to confront people with a broad negative statement. If you say "you're arrogant" or "you're a jerk" he can and will come back with examples when he wasn't arrogant or jerky. If you can't think of any examples, then DTMFA is surely back on the table.
Specific examples get a better result, and drop the "you are" statements. "I feel like when you told Rob and Judy that their products were no good, it set expectations for our product that were too high. We haven't met those expectations (leave out the 'it's your fault') and I'm concerned people will see our business in a negative light. I feel like we (use 'we" because it reflects on both of you) look foolish. Next time I'd appreciate it if we just worked on our own project without commenting on others' work."
posted by desjardins at 8:09 AM on February 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Specific examples get a better result, and drop the "you are" statements. "I feel like when you told Rob and Judy that their products were no good, it set expectations for our product that were too high. We haven't met those expectations (leave out the 'it's your fault') and I'm concerned people will see our business in a negative light. I feel like we (use 'we" because it reflects on both of you) look foolish. Next time I'd appreciate it if we just worked on our own project without commenting on others' work."
posted by desjardins at 8:09 AM on February 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
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It seems like a lot of core personality traits to ask someone to change, but maybe we need more detailed examples.
posted by queens86 at 12:58 PM on February 7, 2012 [18 favorites]