Life With a Dog
December 7, 2011 6:10 AM Subscribe
Another question about dog behavior and expectations
First and foremost, the forms must be obeyed: The dog, Brady, and my daughter, Ruth.
Wife and kids wanted a dog. I was neutral-to-negative on it but conceded because the wife and kids were excited about the idea. Now that we have a dog, we dealing with what I expected - dog behavior. I believe that the things we are experiencing are part and parcel of owning a dog (and hence, why I didn't want one). How close to right or wrong am I?
- If the garbage can is secured behind a closed door, the dog will knock it over if we are not home. If there's a soiled diaper in the trash, he'll eat the poop out of it.
- If the dog is left alone for more than two hours, he poops on the floor.
- After owning him a few months, he has started to pee on the furniture.
- If my wife leaves a should bag anywhere he can get to it and it contains anything edible at all (e.g. chewing gum), he ransacks the bag.
- He constantly pulls and tugs against his leash. Leash-training-techniques will abate the behavior as long as they are applied, but he never learns the lesson (even after weeks of consistent application).
- He jumps on people when they visit. We have been unable to stop this behavior.
Further dog data:
- He is ostensibly a Bichon Frise. Or so the rescue told us.
- The dog is lavished with affection.
- He is well-walked and well-exercised.
- When anyone is home, he can go in and out as he pleases.
- Our yard is fenced.
- We have no other pets of any kind..
- He is neutered.
- The folks from the rescue from whom we adopted him had a belly-band on him when they brought him to us. This was a HUGE WARNING FLAG to me.
- He is very loving and affectionate and is generally pleasant to be around when he's not wrecking my home.
So, is this just the way it is when you own a dog? Am I doomed to a life of furniture that reeks of dog urine and coming from from every family outing to the odor of dog poop? Or, do I have to spend thousands of dollars in obedience training that may or may not work?
First and foremost, the forms must be obeyed: The dog, Brady, and my daughter, Ruth.
Wife and kids wanted a dog. I was neutral-to-negative on it but conceded because the wife and kids were excited about the idea. Now that we have a dog, we dealing with what I expected - dog behavior. I believe that the things we are experiencing are part and parcel of owning a dog (and hence, why I didn't want one). How close to right or wrong am I?
- If the garbage can is secured behind a closed door, the dog will knock it over if we are not home. If there's a soiled diaper in the trash, he'll eat the poop out of it.
- If the dog is left alone for more than two hours, he poops on the floor.
- After owning him a few months, he has started to pee on the furniture.
- If my wife leaves a should bag anywhere he can get to it and it contains anything edible at all (e.g. chewing gum), he ransacks the bag.
- He constantly pulls and tugs against his leash. Leash-training-techniques will abate the behavior as long as they are applied, but he never learns the lesson (even after weeks of consistent application).
- He jumps on people when they visit. We have been unable to stop this behavior.
Further dog data:
- He is ostensibly a Bichon Frise. Or so the rescue told us.
- The dog is lavished with affection.
- He is well-walked and well-exercised.
- When anyone is home, he can go in and out as he pleases.
- Our yard is fenced.
- We have no other pets of any kind..
- He is neutered.
- The folks from the rescue from whom we adopted him had a belly-band on him when they brought him to us. This was a HUGE WARNING FLAG to me.
- He is very loving and affectionate and is generally pleasant to be around when he's not wrecking my home.
So, is this just the way it is when you own a dog? Am I doomed to a life of furniture that reeks of dog urine and coming from from every family outing to the odor of dog poop? Or, do I have to spend thousands of dollars in obedience training that may or may not work?
Wow, so many destructive behaviors in one little dog! I can see why you're upset!
IMO, this is all on the very obnoxious end of the "normal dog behavior" spectrum. Some of the destruction can be mitigated by training yourselves (lock the garbage can up more securely, don't leave shoulder bags in accessible places, etc.).
The rest, though, sucks. I assume you've ruled out health issues causing the peeing and pooping? Two hours isn't too long for a healthy dog to hold his poop.
My next suggestion is crating him when you're not home, and possibly overnight. You can decide, based on your situation, whether he just needs to be crated permanently, or for some shorter period of time while he relearns being housebroken. There are attractive crates out there that can blend in better with your decor than the typical wire or plastic kinds.
Secondly, it sounds like he would benefit from some professional training. I would avoid the training classes at the big-box pet stores, unless you have a specific recommendation. Those can be hit or miss. Look for a local kennel club for either classes themselves, or a recommendation on a trainer.
My last suggestion is to give him some time. It's not clear from your post how long he's been with you (at least a few months, I gather). Dogs that have been in rescue situations often have unknown backgrounds, and sometimes it takes a lot longer than you'd expect for them to come around to being good canine citizens.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 6:35 AM on December 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
IMO, this is all on the very obnoxious end of the "normal dog behavior" spectrum. Some of the destruction can be mitigated by training yourselves (lock the garbage can up more securely, don't leave shoulder bags in accessible places, etc.).
The rest, though, sucks. I assume you've ruled out health issues causing the peeing and pooping? Two hours isn't too long for a healthy dog to hold his poop.
My next suggestion is crating him when you're not home, and possibly overnight. You can decide, based on your situation, whether he just needs to be crated permanently, or for some shorter period of time while he relearns being housebroken. There are attractive crates out there that can blend in better with your decor than the typical wire or plastic kinds.
Secondly, it sounds like he would benefit from some professional training. I would avoid the training classes at the big-box pet stores, unless you have a specific recommendation. Those can be hit or miss. Look for a local kennel club for either classes themselves, or a recommendation on a trainer.
My last suggestion is to give him some time. It's not clear from your post how long he's been with you (at least a few months, I gather). Dogs that have been in rescue situations often have unknown backgrounds, and sometimes it takes a lot longer than you'd expect for them to come around to being good canine citizens.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 6:35 AM on December 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Sounds like a pain-in-the-ass, and I love dogs.
I've found that a few drops of citronella oil on your furniture stops the 'marking' with urine. A few drops in a shoulder bag and bins might also counter that problems there too.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:37 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've found that a few drops of citronella oil on your furniture stops the 'marking' with urine. A few drops in a shoulder bag and bins might also counter that problems there too.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:37 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Thirding the crate.
You don't mention how old, but we also found this book from the Tufts Vet School very useful at the puppy stage -
Puppy's First Steps: The Whole-Dog Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, Well-Behaved Puppy
posted by NoDef at 6:37 AM on December 7, 2011
You don't mention how old, but we also found this book from the Tufts Vet School very useful at the puppy stage -
Puppy's First Steps: The Whole-Dog Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, Well-Behaved Puppy
posted by NoDef at 6:37 AM on December 7, 2011
Yes, some of this is just the way it is when you own a dog, but I'd also say that some of the unpleasantness has more to do with your own habits and perhaps your expectation that a dog is going to use human logic. I'd suggest that you need modify *your* behavior while also training your dog to understand what's acceptable. A few specifics:
- Don't leave trash or shoulder bags where the dog can get to it.
- Crate the dog while you're out; dogs seldom poop in their crates. Crate training is not cruel or punishment, something I didn't understand with our first dog but have embraced subsequently with great results.
- Acknowledge that leash training never ends (at least it hasn't for us).
- Confine your dog when you have company, at least when they arrive, and keep him on a leash when he greets people so you can correct him.
I am not a dog expert by any means, but I have learned a lot through experience as well as by reading a lot of AskMe threads. How it works for us:
Our dogs do not have free run of the house. They live in the kitchen, which thankfully is spacious, behind baby gates. They have each other for company and also have a lot of interaction with us because there's usually at least one person in the kitchen during most waking hours, but being allowed elsewhere in the house is a privilege, and we determine when it starts and when it ends. They're never unsupervised when they're in the house.
Our dogs don't have free access to our guests, because they also get excited and jump (and then get each other worked-up and fight, but that's another story). We put them outside while they get over the excitement of OMG NEW PEOPLE, then bring them in one at a time to say hello, but then they often go back outside or to the kitchen if our guests aren't dog people.
We use treats for training because our dogs are highly food-motivated, but many others here swear by clicker-training. We had a few sessions with a professional trainer that I found very helpful, but training for us is an ongoing, never-ending process. They learn and want to please, but at the end of the day they are still animals who are motivated by instinct (squirrel! poop! chicken bones!).
Don't give up on your pup.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 6:43 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
- Don't leave trash or shoulder bags where the dog can get to it.
- Crate the dog while you're out; dogs seldom poop in their crates. Crate training is not cruel or punishment, something I didn't understand with our first dog but have embraced subsequently with great results.
- Acknowledge that leash training never ends (at least it hasn't for us).
- Confine your dog when you have company, at least when they arrive, and keep him on a leash when he greets people so you can correct him.
I am not a dog expert by any means, but I have learned a lot through experience as well as by reading a lot of AskMe threads. How it works for us:
Our dogs do not have free run of the house. They live in the kitchen, which thankfully is spacious, behind baby gates. They have each other for company and also have a lot of interaction with us because there's usually at least one person in the kitchen during most waking hours, but being allowed elsewhere in the house is a privilege, and we determine when it starts and when it ends. They're never unsupervised when they're in the house.
Our dogs don't have free access to our guests, because they also get excited and jump (and then get each other worked-up and fight, but that's another story). We put them outside while they get over the excitement of OMG NEW PEOPLE, then bring them in one at a time to say hello, but then they often go back outside or to the kitchen if our guests aren't dog people.
We use treats for training because our dogs are highly food-motivated, but many others here swear by clicker-training. We had a few sessions with a professional trainer that I found very helpful, but training for us is an ongoing, never-ending process. They learn and want to please, but at the end of the day they are still animals who are motivated by instinct (squirrel! poop! chicken bones!).
Don't give up on your pup.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 6:43 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
The investment in dog obedience training will be the best money you spend. It will work, if you and your family commit to it. That's the hard part.
When we got our first dog last year, my partner and I quickly learned that all the books we'd read prior to its arrival didn't help us to manage the little creature. Dog obedience training is only partly about teaching the dog; it's mostly about teaching the people and that's incredibly valuable. The trainer will know lots of methods of dealing with the behaviour issues. I'd suggest going to your local park and talking to other dog owners about where they took their dogs for training. Like everything, there are good trainers and not-so-good ones, so spend a bit of time getting referrals before shelling out your money.
Do you have a crate for this dog? If he's messing in the house when he's alone, the first thing I'd do is commence crate training. Dogs don't like to mess in their den, so keep the den small for awhile until he comes to see the whole house as his den. Crate training is the single most valuable thing we did with our dog; as a puppy, she slept in it, ate in it, had her favourite toys put in it. Now, at nearly two years old, she sees it as a place of comfort and reward, even if she has to be closed up in it.
In terms of pulling at the leash, leash-training techniques will always have to be applied. A tool that worked for us to improve the pulling and yanking was the Gentle Leader collar. Dog hated it at first and we felt like the cruellest people in the world forcing her to wear it, but we persevered, gave her a treat each time we put it on her and took her out for a walk as soon as she was wearing it. It only took a few weeks before she was willingly allowing us to put it on her: the promise of the treat and the walk quickly became greater than the dislike of the collar.
The things you are experiencing are not part and parcel of dog ownership; no one would own dogs if they were. These are learned behaviours, and having learned them, your dog can unlearn them or learn other, preferred, behaviours. It takes time and work and it's not always fun but it's worth it. I wish you good luck!
posted by GreenEyed at 6:45 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
When we got our first dog last year, my partner and I quickly learned that all the books we'd read prior to its arrival didn't help us to manage the little creature. Dog obedience training is only partly about teaching the dog; it's mostly about teaching the people and that's incredibly valuable. The trainer will know lots of methods of dealing with the behaviour issues. I'd suggest going to your local park and talking to other dog owners about where they took their dogs for training. Like everything, there are good trainers and not-so-good ones, so spend a bit of time getting referrals before shelling out your money.
Do you have a crate for this dog? If he's messing in the house when he's alone, the first thing I'd do is commence crate training. Dogs don't like to mess in their den, so keep the den small for awhile until he comes to see the whole house as his den. Crate training is the single most valuable thing we did with our dog; as a puppy, she slept in it, ate in it, had her favourite toys put in it. Now, at nearly two years old, she sees it as a place of comfort and reward, even if she has to be closed up in it.
In terms of pulling at the leash, leash-training techniques will always have to be applied. A tool that worked for us to improve the pulling and yanking was the Gentle Leader collar. Dog hated it at first and we felt like the cruellest people in the world forcing her to wear it, but we persevered, gave her a treat each time we put it on her and took her out for a walk as soon as she was wearing it. It only took a few weeks before she was willingly allowing us to put it on her: the promise of the treat and the walk quickly became greater than the dislike of the collar.
The things you are experiencing are not part and parcel of dog ownership; no one would own dogs if they were. These are learned behaviours, and having learned them, your dog can unlearn them or learn other, preferred, behaviours. It takes time and work and it's not always fun but it's worth it. I wish you good luck!
posted by GreenEyed at 6:45 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is not at all normal dog behavior.
It's normal untrained or badly trained dog behavior.
Get thee to some obedience classes ASAP -- the longer you let this stuff slide the harder it's going to be to reverse (as you've already seem with the "oh, they let me get away with pooping on the floor, I guess I can pee on the couch too! yay!")
It's not going to cost "thousands of dollars". It will work, as long as you actually follow the practices you learn in class consistently at home (what, you thought obedience classes were to teach the dog things?). It is work to train a dog. But it beats having shit on the floor.
posted by ook at 6:58 AM on December 7, 2011 [13 favorites]
It's normal untrained or badly trained dog behavior.
Get thee to some obedience classes ASAP -- the longer you let this stuff slide the harder it's going to be to reverse (as you've already seem with the "oh, they let me get away with pooping on the floor, I guess I can pee on the couch too! yay!")
It's not going to cost "thousands of dollars". It will work, as long as you actually follow the practices you learn in class consistently at home (what, you thought obedience classes were to teach the dog things?). It is work to train a dog. But it beats having shit on the floor.
posted by ook at 6:58 AM on December 7, 2011 [13 favorites]
Absolutely crate. He won't eliminate in there while you're out unless he absolutely can't hold it anymore. If that happens, there's either a medical reason or you're gone too long (6+ hours).
Get an Easy Walk harness. The leash attaches to the front so he can't pull against it; it redirects his motion so he either gets it or tumbles over it.
Is he on the furniture when he pees on it? Or does he just mark it as he's passing by. If it's the former, there's an obvious solution there. If it's the latter, not so sure; I've never owned a male dog for any length of time.
posted by supercres at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Get an Easy Walk harness. The leash attaches to the front so he can't pull against it; it redirects his motion so he either gets it or tumbles over it.
Is he on the furniture when he pees on it? Or does he just mark it as he's passing by. If it's the former, there's an obvious solution there. If it's the latter, not so sure; I've never owned a male dog for any length of time.
posted by supercres at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the input! Here's some followup:
- The dog is somewhere between four and five years old. We've had him less than half a year.
- Crating. I have no issues crating the dog. The rescue would not adopt him out to us unless we signed a "contract" stating that we would not crate him (or re-home him. Or train him as an attack dog). As far as I'm concerned, this document is unenforceable. Am I wrong there?
- "training for us is an ongoing, never-ending process". I would be interested to know if this is the norm. Is it unreasonable to expect a dog to learn that certain behaviors are unacceptable and to expect that lesson to stick?
posted by DWRoelands at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2011
- The dog is somewhere between four and five years old. We've had him less than half a year.
- Crating. I have no issues crating the dog. The rescue would not adopt him out to us unless we signed a "contract" stating that we would not crate him (or re-home him. Or train him as an attack dog). As far as I'm concerned, this document is unenforceable. Am I wrong there?
- "training for us is an ongoing, never-ending process". I would be interested to know if this is the norm. Is it unreasonable to expect a dog to learn that certain behaviors are unacceptable and to expect that lesson to stick?
posted by DWRoelands at 7:07 AM on December 7, 2011
Response by poster: supercres: He's marking it when he passes by.
posted by DWRoelands at 7:09 AM on December 7, 2011
posted by DWRoelands at 7:09 AM on December 7, 2011
I am seriously anti crating of dogs, but even I think this guy needs to be crated when left alone. Also seconding heading off to some training classes, I would look for something more substantial than Petsmart classes and try and get some one on one classes, they work out more expensive per class but I think you need less classes this way and everyone involved will concentrate. Take classes that let all 3 of you work with the dog, even your daughter needs to learn how to train him and remember the classes are the classes are to train you guys what to do to train the dog, you have to work at it consistently and not just once a week in class. It sounds like extra work but in no time it becomes a habit to make your dog sit when visitors come that sort of thing.
Gentle Leader collars work great, though I've had trouble with them on smaller dogs, and have found no pull harnesses to help, though sometimes you have to try a few styles to get the one that works for you.
Some things are easier to just avoid than train a dog out of. Getting a bin with a secure lid, keeping handbags hung up on coat hooks things like that. Everything else you've mentioned seems like things a dog can trained out of, the trouble is that a lot of people don't treat little dogs like dogs and spoil them rotten and it sounds like whoever had your little guy first sounds like one of those owners. I'd be surprised if with a bit of help from a trainer you don't start seeing changes pretty quickly.
posted by wwax at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2011
Gentle Leader collars work great, though I've had trouble with them on smaller dogs, and have found no pull harnesses to help, though sometimes you have to try a few styles to get the one that works for you.
Some things are easier to just avoid than train a dog out of. Getting a bin with a secure lid, keeping handbags hung up on coat hooks things like that. Everything else you've mentioned seems like things a dog can trained out of, the trouble is that a lot of people don't treat little dogs like dogs and spoil them rotten and it sounds like whoever had your little guy first sounds like one of those owners. I'd be surprised if with a bit of help from a trainer you don't start seeing changes pretty quickly.
posted by wwax at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2011
Training training training.
If you do decide to use an easy-walk or a head harness of some kind, be very careful. A fuzzy dog like yours could easily get abrasions that you won't see because of the fur. Also, I wouldn't be comfortable with a child that young handling a dog with a head harness. (Dog safety, not the child.)
Also, training training training and the rescue group will be no help there. The "no crate" contract means they are not reality based.
I'd say your crate loophole is, as has been suggested, baby gates keeping the dog in a kitchen or laundry room.
The thing about training being ongoing, yes, but no one is saying the while family has to take the dog to obedience class three times a week for six years.
If you can find a class or club that you like, perhaps your wife and daughter can take the dog.
And about the gun stealing, xylitol is very dangerous to dogs. Train your family not to leave gum, candy, or anything that is not dog food where the dog cannot get to it.
Try to remember that this little dog is in a strange new world and has no idea what the social customs are. Help the dog.
Find a trainer who can help your dog, your daughter, and your family live in harmony. If you think your daughter looks happy in that photo, imagine how she'll feel when she and the dog learn to communicate.l
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:33 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you do decide to use an easy-walk or a head harness of some kind, be very careful. A fuzzy dog like yours could easily get abrasions that you won't see because of the fur. Also, I wouldn't be comfortable with a child that young handling a dog with a head harness. (Dog safety, not the child.)
Also, training training training and the rescue group will be no help there. The "no crate" contract means they are not reality based.
I'd say your crate loophole is, as has been suggested, baby gates keeping the dog in a kitchen or laundry room.
The thing about training being ongoing, yes, but no one is saying the while family has to take the dog to obedience class three times a week for six years.
If you can find a class or club that you like, perhaps your wife and daughter can take the dog.
And about the gun stealing, xylitol is very dangerous to dogs. Train your family not to leave gum, candy, or anything that is not dog food where the dog cannot get to it.
Try to remember that this little dog is in a strange new world and has no idea what the social customs are. Help the dog.
Find a trainer who can help your dog, your daughter, and your family live in harmony. If you think your daughter looks happy in that photo, imagine how she'll feel when she and the dog learn to communicate.l
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:33 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Your dog is ill-behaved, and the "rescue" where you got him requiring that you not crate him or re-home him is ridiculous and unenforceable. Crate-train your dog. That will help for a start. Note that I said crate-train, not just crate. Shoving your dog in a crate whenever is not going to help your dog and will make you cruel, which is just what the rescue is trying to avoid. Crate-training will eventually result in your dog heading in there willingly to chill out, sleep, etc.
Per your questions...
Get a trash can with a lid that clasps shut, or one that opens along the top and not the side, that is heavy enough not to tip.
Crate the dog when he is alone to prevent the pooping on the floor. Also, switch from timed feeding from grazing if that's applicable. A schedule for eating means a schedule for pooping. The whole "in and out as he pleases" when people are home is, in my opinion, a problem. If he can come and go as he pleases, he is not on a schedule for peeing and pooping. That leads to accidents.
Peeing on the furniture may be a sign of stress or anxiety, since you indicate above that it is more like marking as he passes by. This may be why he had a belly-band before. It's extremely difficult to break a dog of this habit, but it can be done if you catch him in the act and give a strong "NO!" when he lifts his leg, before he pees. If you're not always right there, a water gun with a "NO!" from across the room works. Check in with your vet to see if you can ease his anxiety, though, with medication or with a Thundershirt.
Your wife needs to stop tempting the dog and setting him up to fail by leaving bags with edible things in them just lying around. It's not fair - the desire to eat things is a biological compulsion for your dog.
Some dogs just aren't great walkers. Leash training techniques for some dogs are ongoing processes, that you work on forever and ever. My dog doesn't really enjoy being walked, and he shows it by pulling on his leash no matter what. It's the little bastard's personality, and I don't fight it anymore. We just go out on a leash to do business, and then go back inside.
Jumping is completely unacceptable. There are lots of schools of thought on how to get a dog to stop this, but they all more or less center on simply turning away when the dog jumps and ignoring it instead of giving it the attention it seeks. The Thundershirt might help with that, too.
posted by juniperesque at 7:33 AM on December 7, 2011 [7 favorites]
Per your questions...
Get a trash can with a lid that clasps shut, or one that opens along the top and not the side, that is heavy enough not to tip.
Crate the dog when he is alone to prevent the pooping on the floor. Also, switch from timed feeding from grazing if that's applicable. A schedule for eating means a schedule for pooping. The whole "in and out as he pleases" when people are home is, in my opinion, a problem. If he can come and go as he pleases, he is not on a schedule for peeing and pooping. That leads to accidents.
Peeing on the furniture may be a sign of stress or anxiety, since you indicate above that it is more like marking as he passes by. This may be why he had a belly-band before. It's extremely difficult to break a dog of this habit, but it can be done if you catch him in the act and give a strong "NO!" when he lifts his leg, before he pees. If you're not always right there, a water gun with a "NO!" from across the room works. Check in with your vet to see if you can ease his anxiety, though, with medication or with a Thundershirt.
Your wife needs to stop tempting the dog and setting him up to fail by leaving bags with edible things in them just lying around. It's not fair - the desire to eat things is a biological compulsion for your dog.
Some dogs just aren't great walkers. Leash training techniques for some dogs are ongoing processes, that you work on forever and ever. My dog doesn't really enjoy being walked, and he shows it by pulling on his leash no matter what. It's the little bastard's personality, and I don't fight it anymore. We just go out on a leash to do business, and then go back inside.
Jumping is completely unacceptable. There are lots of schools of thought on how to get a dog to stop this, but they all more or less center on simply turning away when the dog jumps and ignoring it instead of giving it the attention it seeks. The Thundershirt might help with that, too.
posted by juniperesque at 7:33 AM on December 7, 2011 [7 favorites]
Best answer: There are two ways to go about this. One is to triage each problem, learning to use each technique properly and consistently and not just randomly throwing them against the wall to see if they'll stick:
- If the garbage can is secured behind a closed door, the dog will knock it over if we are not home. If there's a soiled diaper in the trash, he'll eat the poop out of it.
- If the dog is left alone for more than two hours, he poops on the floor.
(agree - Crate Training)
- After owning him a few months, he has started to pee on the furniture.
(Nature's Miracle)
(Noise Aversion Training)
- If my wife leaves a should bag anywhere he can get to it and it contains anything edible at all (e.g. chewing gum), he ransacks the bag.
(Noise Aversion Training)
- He constantly pulls and tugs against his leash. Leash-training-techniques will abate the behavior as long as they are applied, but he never learns the lesson (even after weeks of consistent application).
(Gentle Leader)
- He jumps on people when they visit. We have been unable to stop this behavior.
(Noise Aversion Training) (Crate Training) (Tethering)
But that is exhausting, and it's a series of corrections, not setting your dog up to succeed.
Considering:
- He is ostensibly a Bichon Frise. Or so the rescue told us.
(High Energy - he's young, still, I see. But nobody really knows what he's been through.)
- The dog is lavished with affection.
(Affection is given as a reward for desired behaviour - not always as entertainment at the human's convenience and enjoyment.)
- He is well-walked and well-exercised.
(On a schedule? As part of routine? Enough? Is his brain exercised too?)
- When anyone is home, he can go in and out as he pleases.
(This makes him the boss, and doesn't reinforce periods of "down time" for him.)
- Our yard is fenced.
(This is fine, but boring unless he's being played with out there.)
- We have no other pets of any kind.
(Is he bored and lonely? Does he socialize with other dogs?)
- He is neutered. (When was he neutered? Dogs neutered later on can retain certain behaviours, like marking.)
- The folks from the rescue from whom we adopted him had a belly-band on him when they brought him to us. This was a HUGE WARNING FLAG to me.
(Yes - he hadn't been properly trained.)
- He is very loving and affectionate and is generally pleasant to be around when he's not wrecking my home.
(Which makes you love him - great - but can also make folks be softies when it comes to training.)
The second way to go about this is to teach him how to be a good dog. He's just behaving in a way that's normal for an untrained dog. Dogs like to know who's boss. They like routines. Dogs like to know what is expected of them, otherwise, they'll start testing their boundaries just like kids. And you never stop training them, or at least the "reinforcing good behaviour" part.
A routine that pre-empts some of the behaviour, and can be flexible enough to accommodate your family's schedule: Wake up, take him out for a pee first thing (on a leash even in the back yard, to one spot always, with pee commands and lavish praise when he does). In for food and family time. Praise only for good behaviour, deter bad behaviour or ignore him unless he's doing what he's supposed to - sitting and staying in an acceptable place, chewing a bone, etc. Give him something to do. Out for his morning walk/exercise/training/poop, with lots of praise and teaching some good behaviours before leaving/getting on with the day. Inside for crate time (door open if people at home or closed if away). (It's not a punishment - it's a safe place where he knows what to do. That's a good thing!) Later on, call him out for a bathroom break, more play time, training, etc. After, more crate time, if needed. Repeat as necessary. Evening meal if you do so (Are you free-feeding? Don't.) (Does he jump for food scraps? Crate time during meals or with guests!) and then evening walk/play/training.
Eventually, you have a dog who's appropriately tired, mentally taxed, and who understands his place in the family and what to do when he's not being played with, which is to rest quietly or enjoy a toy. Right now, he's kind of just like a kid just seeing what various behaviours get him, and feeling secure enough in some of them, and being rewarded with attention whether he's good or bad.
Getting a trainer doesn't have to cost thousands, but they will train you all - not necessarily him. The whole family needs to be on board. It's worth every penny. It is very possible that your family is encouraging, inadvertently, certain behaviours in him. Even putting temptations out of reach is smarter than leaving something he's bound to get into, and then be reprimanded for. It's hard enough from puppyhood, but you've got someone else's mistakes to correct in a "rescued" dog, and doggy nature to contend with. Good luck, and thanks for giving the little guy a good home. Chances are he got dumped for exactly the the reasons you're living with. (This comes from a person who's always had rescued dogs, and currently has a very houndy rescued dog, who, because of said dog's houndy nature and early lack of training and innate stubbornness, does not walk well on a traditional leash and who is nothing but a garbage eater if I let her be; and who ate my Secret Quonsar gift because I was stupid enough to leave it on the counter.)
posted by peagood at 7:33 AM on December 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
- If the garbage can is secured behind a closed door, the dog will knock it over if we are not home. If there's a soiled diaper in the trash, he'll eat the poop out of it.
- If the dog is left alone for more than two hours, he poops on the floor.
(agree - Crate Training)
- After owning him a few months, he has started to pee on the furniture.
(Nature's Miracle)
(Noise Aversion Training)
- If my wife leaves a should bag anywhere he can get to it and it contains anything edible at all (e.g. chewing gum), he ransacks the bag.
(Noise Aversion Training)
- He constantly pulls and tugs against his leash. Leash-training-techniques will abate the behavior as long as they are applied, but he never learns the lesson (even after weeks of consistent application).
(Gentle Leader)
- He jumps on people when they visit. We have been unable to stop this behavior.
(Noise Aversion Training) (Crate Training) (Tethering)
But that is exhausting, and it's a series of corrections, not setting your dog up to succeed.
Considering:
- He is ostensibly a Bichon Frise. Or so the rescue told us.
(High Energy - he's young, still, I see. But nobody really knows what he's been through.)
- The dog is lavished with affection.
(Affection is given as a reward for desired behaviour - not always as entertainment at the human's convenience and enjoyment.)
- He is well-walked and well-exercised.
(On a schedule? As part of routine? Enough? Is his brain exercised too?)
- When anyone is home, he can go in and out as he pleases.
(This makes him the boss, and doesn't reinforce periods of "down time" for him.)
- Our yard is fenced.
(This is fine, but boring unless he's being played with out there.)
- We have no other pets of any kind.
(Is he bored and lonely? Does he socialize with other dogs?)
- He is neutered. (When was he neutered? Dogs neutered later on can retain certain behaviours, like marking.)
- The folks from the rescue from whom we adopted him had a belly-band on him when they brought him to us. This was a HUGE WARNING FLAG to me.
(Yes - he hadn't been properly trained.)
- He is very loving and affectionate and is generally pleasant to be around when he's not wrecking my home.
(Which makes you love him - great - but can also make folks be softies when it comes to training.)
The second way to go about this is to teach him how to be a good dog. He's just behaving in a way that's normal for an untrained dog. Dogs like to know who's boss. They like routines. Dogs like to know what is expected of them, otherwise, they'll start testing their boundaries just like kids. And you never stop training them, or at least the "reinforcing good behaviour" part.
A routine that pre-empts some of the behaviour, and can be flexible enough to accommodate your family's schedule: Wake up, take him out for a pee first thing (on a leash even in the back yard, to one spot always, with pee commands and lavish praise when he does). In for food and family time. Praise only for good behaviour, deter bad behaviour or ignore him unless he's doing what he's supposed to - sitting and staying in an acceptable place, chewing a bone, etc. Give him something to do. Out for his morning walk/exercise/training/poop, with lots of praise and teaching some good behaviours before leaving/getting on with the day. Inside for crate time (door open if people at home or closed if away). (It's not a punishment - it's a safe place where he knows what to do. That's a good thing!) Later on, call him out for a bathroom break, more play time, training, etc. After, more crate time, if needed. Repeat as necessary. Evening meal if you do so (Are you free-feeding? Don't.) (Does he jump for food scraps? Crate time during meals or with guests!) and then evening walk/play/training.
Eventually, you have a dog who's appropriately tired, mentally taxed, and who understands his place in the family and what to do when he's not being played with, which is to rest quietly or enjoy a toy. Right now, he's kind of just like a kid just seeing what various behaviours get him, and feeling secure enough in some of them, and being rewarded with attention whether he's good or bad.
Getting a trainer doesn't have to cost thousands, but they will train you all - not necessarily him. The whole family needs to be on board. It's worth every penny. It is very possible that your family is encouraging, inadvertently, certain behaviours in him. Even putting temptations out of reach is smarter than leaving something he's bound to get into, and then be reprimanded for. It's hard enough from puppyhood, but you've got someone else's mistakes to correct in a "rescued" dog, and doggy nature to contend with. Good luck, and thanks for giving the little guy a good home. Chances are he got dumped for exactly the the reasons you're living with. (This comes from a person who's always had rescued dogs, and currently has a very houndy rescued dog, who, because of said dog's houndy nature and early lack of training and innate stubbornness, does not walk well on a traditional leash and who is nothing but a garbage eater if I let her be; and who ate my Secret Quonsar gift because I was stupid enough to leave it on the counter.)
posted by peagood at 7:33 AM on December 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
"Is it unreasonable to expect a dog to learn that certain behaviors are unacceptable and to expect that lesson to stick?"
Think of it this way: you've probably taught your children that they have to be careful and look both ways when crossing the street. Probably you expect that lesson has stuck. But even so, if you're like most parents, the last thing you say to your kid as it leaves the house is, "Be careful crossing the street!" Not because they don't know that, but because it's important to reinforce the lesson. The dog will learn that some behaviours are unacceptable, so long as you and your family continue to reinforce the lesson. This isn't onerous: it means things like applying correct leash-training techniques (if you don't perform correctly, how is the dog supposed to know that he needs to perform correctly? He's following your lead.), keeping the dog in his crate when he's alone and taking him out do his business immediately when you return and praising him for doing it outside, always correcting him if he jumps on visitors or, even better, planning so that he doesn't have the option of jumping on visitors (he's in his crate or on a leash when guests arrive)...these aren't chores, they're simply behaviours that the dog owners need to incorporate into their routines.
For me, the bottom line is always that I'm the human and if I want my dog to behave differently, I have to behave differently to make that happen. I can't keep doing the same things and expect the dog to act differently. Once I started thinking of it that way, it made it a lot easier to be patient with my pet and provide the structure that she needs to act how I want her to act.
nb. We found crate training became easier when we stopped calling it a "crate" and began calling it a "house." The command "go in your house" sounded a lot more pleasant and our dog responded more favourably to it as well.
posted by GreenEyed at 7:40 AM on December 7, 2011 [4 favorites]
Think of it this way: you've probably taught your children that they have to be careful and look both ways when crossing the street. Probably you expect that lesson has stuck. But even so, if you're like most parents, the last thing you say to your kid as it leaves the house is, "Be careful crossing the street!" Not because they don't know that, but because it's important to reinforce the lesson. The dog will learn that some behaviours are unacceptable, so long as you and your family continue to reinforce the lesson. This isn't onerous: it means things like applying correct leash-training techniques (if you don't perform correctly, how is the dog supposed to know that he needs to perform correctly? He's following your lead.), keeping the dog in his crate when he's alone and taking him out do his business immediately when you return and praising him for doing it outside, always correcting him if he jumps on visitors or, even better, planning so that he doesn't have the option of jumping on visitors (he's in his crate or on a leash when guests arrive)...these aren't chores, they're simply behaviours that the dog owners need to incorporate into their routines.
For me, the bottom line is always that I'm the human and if I want my dog to behave differently, I have to behave differently to make that happen. I can't keep doing the same things and expect the dog to act differently. Once I started thinking of it that way, it made it a lot easier to be patient with my pet and provide the structure that she needs to act how I want her to act.
nb. We found crate training became easier when we stopped calling it a "crate" and began calling it a "house." The command "go in your house" sounded a lot more pleasant and our dog responded more favourably to it as well.
posted by GreenEyed at 7:40 AM on December 7, 2011 [4 favorites]
You've got a lot of good suggestions here (crate, obedience classes, baby gate), so I won't address the behavioral part and instead ask what kind of food you're feeding him. The statement "If the dog is left alone for more than two hours, he poops on the floor," makes it sound like he is pooping more than 2x a day, which suggests that he is possibly eating poor quality food. Big name dog food brans like IAMS, Pedigree and Eukanuba contain lots of corn meal and fillers that aren't nutritious, and thus increase stool volume. If your dog is pooping a lot, I'd consider switching to a high-quality brand like Innova, Merrick, Fromm, or Solid Gold. I know a lot of people don't think it's necessary to buy all-natural food for their dogs, but it will make your little guy poo less (on the floor or elsewhere).
posted by Mrs.Spiffy at 7:57 AM on December 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Mrs.Spiffy at 7:57 AM on December 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Is it unreasonable to expect a dog to learn that certain behaviors are unacceptable and to expect that lesson to stick?
Well, you do need to continue rewarding good behavior and diverting bad behavior, so in that sense "training" is a never-ending process. But it's not that they're stupid and have forgotten what they're supposed to do, it's that they'll keep testing boundaries to see if they're still there.
An example from our own dog: he had the same jump-on-houseguests-because-he's-excited thing. We'd lie him down on his side and hold him there gently until he relaxed and calmed down, and then we could let him up again and there'd be no more jumping.
At first this involved a lot of dog wrestling: it would take a few minutes each time for him to stop struggling and trying to get back up again, or he'd get back up and immediately start jumping again so we'd have to lie him down again, sometimes two or three times until he got the message.
Eventually he was "trained" in that most of the time he wouldn't jump at all. But once in a while he'd start, because houseguests! Exciting! and we'd have to go back into the routine -- but it's not ten minutes of dog wrestling anymore, it's ten seconds of him remembering, "oh, yeah, right, when I do that they do this" and then relaxing immediately.
posted by ook at 8:10 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, you do need to continue rewarding good behavior and diverting bad behavior, so in that sense "training" is a never-ending process. But it's not that they're stupid and have forgotten what they're supposed to do, it's that they'll keep testing boundaries to see if they're still there.
An example from our own dog: he had the same jump-on-houseguests-because-he's-excited thing. We'd lie him down on his side and hold him there gently until he relaxed and calmed down, and then we could let him up again and there'd be no more jumping.
At first this involved a lot of dog wrestling: it would take a few minutes each time for him to stop struggling and trying to get back up again, or he'd get back up and immediately start jumping again so we'd have to lie him down again, sometimes two or three times until he got the message.
Eventually he was "trained" in that most of the time he wouldn't jump at all. But once in a while he'd start, because houseguests! Exciting! and we'd have to go back into the routine -- but it's not ten minutes of dog wrestling anymore, it's ten seconds of him remembering, "oh, yeah, right, when I do that they do this" and then relaxing immediately.
posted by ook at 8:10 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just a note that xylitol, in most chewing gum, is poisonous to dogs. Unless you want to add expensive vet bills to your list of woes, keep the gum away from him!
Otherwise, yes, these sound like issues you can address with training, but you need to be consistent. As you mention - your dog responds when you are, but doesn't seem to have "learned" when you don't apply the leash-training techniques. You have to keep applying them - he's not going to do these behaviors on his own, generally.
posted by judith at 8:25 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, yes, these sound like issues you can address with training, but you need to be consistent. As you mention - your dog responds when you are, but doesn't seem to have "learned" when you don't apply the leash-training techniques. You have to keep applying them - he's not going to do these behaviors on his own, generally.
posted by judith at 8:25 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not a big crating fan either, and I too think this guy either needs to be crated OR confined to an area where he can do the least damage. For floor purposes, this is often the kitchen, which may mean you cannot keep any food out in the open and may need to block cabinets/pantry.
Yeah, dogs eat food and dogs eat garbage. We use a wildly expensive Simple Human step can because our dogs are not smart enough to knock it over or learn to step on the pedal (some dogs do learn that). We do not leave things (anything, really, including remote controls or books) in the dogs' reach as a matter of habit. Our dining room table always looks like hell, but we haven't had an electronic item destroyed in years.
The last time we had a trainer come to the house, it was $60/hour. We had her out for a very specific scary fighting issue, but she covered all the basics of being pack leader in about 30 minutes. It was worth the money, and even though I have experience in training and dealing with dogs, I needed someone to tell me to my face that I needed to do the things I needed to do. I think it's worth the money for a couple of hours (and it's worth it just to train your children how to interact with dogs), and then that trainer can point you to dog school classes that are affordable and best for you and your dog. S/he might also be able to help you decide how to create a confinement area since you had to sign an agreement that you wouldn't crate.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:27 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, dogs eat food and dogs eat garbage. We use a wildly expensive Simple Human step can because our dogs are not smart enough to knock it over or learn to step on the pedal (some dogs do learn that). We do not leave things (anything, really, including remote controls or books) in the dogs' reach as a matter of habit. Our dining room table always looks like hell, but we haven't had an electronic item destroyed in years.
The last time we had a trainer come to the house, it was $60/hour. We had her out for a very specific scary fighting issue, but she covered all the basics of being pack leader in about 30 minutes. It was worth the money, and even though I have experience in training and dealing with dogs, I needed someone to tell me to my face that I needed to do the things I needed to do. I think it's worth the money for a couple of hours (and it's worth it just to train your children how to interact with dogs), and then that trainer can point you to dog school classes that are affordable and best for you and your dog. S/he might also be able to help you decide how to create a confinement area since you had to sign an agreement that you wouldn't crate.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:27 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
They don't want you to crate him? Effing ridiculous. Dogs need a safe "house" - for their sanity and yours. Crate training is not very difficult - make sure you give a treat every time you crate. My dogs run to their crates every time they hear the treat box. Yeay Pavlov! My Corgi hangs out in her crate all the time.
posted by radioamy at 9:00 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by radioamy at 9:00 AM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: What you are dealing with is normal behavior for a dog that has not been well trained by his owners. It's not the dog's fault and it's not your fault you inherited someone else's lousy parenting. But, as the others have said, this won't change unless you do. Even if you hire a trainer, it will be up to you to continue to reinforce the trainig
Jean Donaldson has written some very good books on dog training. She trains from the stand-point that you can teach good behavior entirely with positive reinforcement. Her basic philosophy is that it is not okay to inflict fear or pain in order to get a dog to behave.
For example, when the dog jumps on you, step back and turn away from him. Don't scold or touch and absolutely do not pet - all are forms of attention that can reinforce the behavior. When people come over, have the dog sit, give a treat and keep treating the dog while he is not jumping. Not jumping is the good behavior you want to reward.
Until he is properly house trained, use baby gates and crate training. Do Not leave him alone in a crate for more that 4-5 hours max. Crate training is not cruel, but 8 hours alone and confined without a break is. Help potty train him with treats - take him into the yard on a leash and lavish him with yummies and praise when he goes outside. Taking him to the same spot will help cue him. This is how I got my dog to stop peeing on furniture.
The foraging behavior might be boredom or normal curiosity. You can divert it by teaching him to play hide and seek - you hide treats, he has to find them. A quick internet search will give you the basics on how to get started. Keep in mind that getting into purses and trash will be a tougher habit to break since he's already been rewarded for it by scoring some food. You’ll need to come up with a reward system for not getting into tempting things. Think along the lines of teaching a command that by definition excludes the behavior you don’t want. For example, I taught my dog to lie down in the kitchen by treating her every minute or so while lying down. She can’t counter surf, steal dinner and lie down at the same time.
Exercise is important, but a dog needs mental stimulation too. Obedience training will help keep his mind busy, even when he is alone - especially if you have several short, 5-10 min training sessions a day. Dogs, like humans, synch/process a lot of new learning in their sleep - this will help keep him out of trouble even when you're not around.
And if all of this sounds like too much, there is no shame in re-homing him. If you weren't too crazy about having a dog in the first place, it might be hard to find the motivation to invest the necessary time involved in training the dog. Or, since your wife was the one who agitated for a dog, put the onus on her and the kid to do the training.
posted by space_cookie at 9:09 AM on December 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Jean Donaldson has written some very good books on dog training. She trains from the stand-point that you can teach good behavior entirely with positive reinforcement. Her basic philosophy is that it is not okay to inflict fear or pain in order to get a dog to behave.
For example, when the dog jumps on you, step back and turn away from him. Don't scold or touch and absolutely do not pet - all are forms of attention that can reinforce the behavior. When people come over, have the dog sit, give a treat and keep treating the dog while he is not jumping. Not jumping is the good behavior you want to reward.
Until he is properly house trained, use baby gates and crate training. Do Not leave him alone in a crate for more that 4-5 hours max. Crate training is not cruel, but 8 hours alone and confined without a break is. Help potty train him with treats - take him into the yard on a leash and lavish him with yummies and praise when he goes outside. Taking him to the same spot will help cue him. This is how I got my dog to stop peeing on furniture.
The foraging behavior might be boredom or normal curiosity. You can divert it by teaching him to play hide and seek - you hide treats, he has to find them. A quick internet search will give you the basics on how to get started. Keep in mind that getting into purses and trash will be a tougher habit to break since he's already been rewarded for it by scoring some food. You’ll need to come up with a reward system for not getting into tempting things. Think along the lines of teaching a command that by definition excludes the behavior you don’t want. For example, I taught my dog to lie down in the kitchen by treating her every minute or so while lying down. She can’t counter surf, steal dinner and lie down at the same time.
Exercise is important, but a dog needs mental stimulation too. Obedience training will help keep his mind busy, even when he is alone - especially if you have several short, 5-10 min training sessions a day. Dogs, like humans, synch/process a lot of new learning in their sleep - this will help keep him out of trouble even when you're not around.
And if all of this sounds like too much, there is no shame in re-homing him. If you weren't too crazy about having a dog in the first place, it might be hard to find the motivation to invest the necessary time involved in training the dog. Or, since your wife was the one who agitated for a dog, put the onus on her and the kid to do the training.
posted by space_cookie at 9:09 AM on December 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
You've gotten a lot of good advice here regarding crate training and the like - so I'll just throw out some things/actions that have helped with our two rescued-with-no-manners dogs.
1. Exercise and mental stimulation are an absolute must. If I charted bad behavior vs. # of walks taken (especially to new and/or interesting places), I'd probably come out with a perfect inverse relationship for my dogs. Because you have only one dog this is even more important, since he doesn't have a playmate. Besides walks, you can work on learning new tricks (in short, 5-to-10 minute intervals), play hide-and-go-seek (great for rainy days - have your daughter tell the dog to sit & stay, then go hide somewhere with a small treat & call-out for the dog. Reinforces sit & stay commands, gives the dog & your daughter something to do, and you can slowly up the difficulty in terms of hiding spaces, giving hints to the dog, etc), fetch a ball (you can train dogs to enjoy this game, even if their natural instincts don't tend in that direction), etc, etc. Keep that dog busy!
2. If you haven't done the basic obedience class, do one. Look on yelp or other sites to find a trainer that's good - even the cheap PetSmart classes can have excellent trainers. Involve the whole family in the class - everyone needs to know how to interact with the dog to reinforce good manners and discourage bad manners. A one-on-one trainer can also be extremely helpful and it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. A good one can come to your house and immediately pinpoint issues in the way you're interacting with the dog, as well as make suggestions that fit your particular lifestyle and needs. We had one come out for one visit because we were worried that the way our GSD mix reacted to visitors (lots of barking, some growling, jumping, etc) was a sign of developing aggression. She watched the dog, watched us, and made some very helpful suggestions regarding our dog's temperament (basically confirming that the dog was just incredibly excited and stubborn as hell).
3. Our Alaskan Malamute has the same elimination problem when left alone in the house. We've dealt with it by either putting him in the backyard with access to cover or in a crate whenever we leave the house for more than an hour. It's very, very difficult to train a dog out of behavior that occurs when you're not at home. Avoiding putting the dog in the situation where he can misbehave has been the better solution for us.
4. Don't give away tons of attention and treats and things "free" to the dog. Think of a dog sitting down on command like a child saying please when asking for something. You teach your kids to say please because that's just good manners - teach your dog to do similar small things like sitting or laying down. It allows you to reinforce the good behaviors and keeps you from getting a pushy dog that demands attention.
5. A dog can't misbehave if he's busy doing something else. Like I said above, our GSD mix would be super-super-excited whenever anyone came to the door, and she is so stubborn that ignoring her jumping didn't work, because once every 10 or 20 times someone would acknowledge her. So, instead, we trained her to sit on a little IKEA stool that she just *barely* fit onto every time someone came to visit. She had to concentrate on sitting on that stool - and as long as she was sitting she got attention and praise. Plus she was higher up to greet guests, which is why dogs jump up in the first place. And she looked cute sitting on that stool.
posted by Gori Girl at 9:37 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
1. Exercise and mental stimulation are an absolute must. If I charted bad behavior vs. # of walks taken (especially to new and/or interesting places), I'd probably come out with a perfect inverse relationship for my dogs. Because you have only one dog this is even more important, since he doesn't have a playmate. Besides walks, you can work on learning new tricks (in short, 5-to-10 minute intervals), play hide-and-go-seek (great for rainy days - have your daughter tell the dog to sit & stay, then go hide somewhere with a small treat & call-out for the dog. Reinforces sit & stay commands, gives the dog & your daughter something to do, and you can slowly up the difficulty in terms of hiding spaces, giving hints to the dog, etc), fetch a ball (you can train dogs to enjoy this game, even if their natural instincts don't tend in that direction), etc, etc. Keep that dog busy!
2. If you haven't done the basic obedience class, do one. Look on yelp or other sites to find a trainer that's good - even the cheap PetSmart classes can have excellent trainers. Involve the whole family in the class - everyone needs to know how to interact with the dog to reinforce good manners and discourage bad manners. A one-on-one trainer can also be extremely helpful and it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. A good one can come to your house and immediately pinpoint issues in the way you're interacting with the dog, as well as make suggestions that fit your particular lifestyle and needs. We had one come out for one visit because we were worried that the way our GSD mix reacted to visitors (lots of barking, some growling, jumping, etc) was a sign of developing aggression. She watched the dog, watched us, and made some very helpful suggestions regarding our dog's temperament (basically confirming that the dog was just incredibly excited and stubborn as hell).
3. Our Alaskan Malamute has the same elimination problem when left alone in the house. We've dealt with it by either putting him in the backyard with access to cover or in a crate whenever we leave the house for more than an hour. It's very, very difficult to train a dog out of behavior that occurs when you're not at home. Avoiding putting the dog in the situation where he can misbehave has been the better solution for us.
4. Don't give away tons of attention and treats and things "free" to the dog. Think of a dog sitting down on command like a child saying please when asking for something. You teach your kids to say please because that's just good manners - teach your dog to do similar small things like sitting or laying down. It allows you to reinforce the good behaviors and keeps you from getting a pushy dog that demands attention.
5. A dog can't misbehave if he's busy doing something else. Like I said above, our GSD mix would be super-super-excited whenever anyone came to the door, and she is so stubborn that ignoring her jumping didn't work, because once every 10 or 20 times someone would acknowledge her. So, instead, we trained her to sit on a little IKEA stool that she just *barely* fit onto every time someone came to visit. She had to concentrate on sitting on that stool - and as long as she was sitting she got attention and praise. Plus she was higher up to greet guests, which is why dogs jump up in the first place. And she looked cute sitting on that stool.
posted by Gori Girl at 9:37 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your input. I'm pessimistic that this particular dog can be suitably re-educated because he was spoiled so badly by the "rescue" owners. However, having some options to try before giving up is better than just giving up. Thanks!
posted by DWRoelands at 10:26 AM on December 7, 2011
posted by DWRoelands at 10:26 AM on December 7, 2011
Just a quick response to your last comment: one of the coolest thing about dogs, IMO, is that they live in the moment.
Dogs aren't like people, they won't become resentful and fight you extra hard if you start enforcing good behavior and discouraging bad when nobody has bothered before. It's actually good to give dogs rules and boundaries, it helps them know their place and be less anxious. It might take him a bit to get it, but really no longer than any dog who has never had discipline. Puppies take months to train, but I'm confidence you can stop most of these behaviors in a month or less if the whole family is on board and consistent.
Within a week or two it will click and he will realize "huh.. ok I shouldn't do that". If you keep doing it consistently, it will just become The Way Things Are, and it will help him be calmer and happier because he will know his role in your household.
posted by zug at 10:47 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Dogs aren't like people, they won't become resentful and fight you extra hard if you start enforcing good behavior and discouraging bad when nobody has bothered before. It's actually good to give dogs rules and boundaries, it helps them know their place and be less anxious. It might take him a bit to get it, but really no longer than any dog who has never had discipline. Puppies take months to train, but I'm confidence you can stop most of these behaviors in a month or less if the whole family is on board and consistent.
Within a week or two it will click and he will realize "huh.. ok I shouldn't do that". If you keep doing it consistently, it will just become The Way Things Are, and it will help him be calmer and happier because he will know his role in your household.
posted by zug at 10:47 AM on December 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Don't be pessimistic! Only very few dogs can be retrained. My partner is a software engineer with the personality to match, and he sees our puppy as a rudimentary AI system whose behaviour can be hacked.
Apart from seeking help from professional dog trainers, perhaps you should acquaint your family with the Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) Doctrine as it's important for everyone the dog lives with to be on the same page. Our 9 month old Frenchie is much beloved in our household, but my partner is firmer and very consistent with her training. For instance, if she jumps onto the couch without permisison, he would remove her from the couch and make her wait for a command; I let her stay with me half the time. Needless to say, she is better behaved around him, and he is less worried about her than I am.
I echo what everyone has said about crate training. If the rescue said no to crating the dog, it's probably because some people think it's acceptable to confine the dog to a crate for hours on end, like for an entire 8 hour work day. Our puppy is crate-trained, but we never left her in the crate for more than 2 hours each time, and now we trust her enough to let her have free run of the house when we go out. We make sure that there's nothing on the floors that she can chew, including our good shoes even though she's never chewed on shoes. She's still crated for the night, but we think we'll soon be able to leave the crate door open. It takes time and patience, but you'll get there. Good luck!
posted by peripathetic at 11:19 AM on December 7, 2011
Apart from seeking help from professional dog trainers, perhaps you should acquaint your family with the Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) Doctrine as it's important for everyone the dog lives with to be on the same page. Our 9 month old Frenchie is much beloved in our household, but my partner is firmer and very consistent with her training. For instance, if she jumps onto the couch without permisison, he would remove her from the couch and make her wait for a command; I let her stay with me half the time. Needless to say, she is better behaved around him, and he is less worried about her than I am.
I echo what everyone has said about crate training. If the rescue said no to crating the dog, it's probably because some people think it's acceptable to confine the dog to a crate for hours on end, like for an entire 8 hour work day. Our puppy is crate-trained, but we never left her in the crate for more than 2 hours each time, and now we trust her enough to let her have free run of the house when we go out. We make sure that there's nothing on the floors that she can chew, including our good shoes even though she's never chewed on shoes. She's still crated for the night, but we think we'll soon be able to leave the crate door open. It takes time and patience, but you'll get there. Good luck!
posted by peripathetic at 11:19 AM on December 7, 2011
*can'T be retrained. Yikes.
posted by peripathetic at 11:19 AM on December 7, 2011
posted by peripathetic at 11:19 AM on December 7, 2011
Our dog is a rescue and he went through HELL before we got him. He's a joy now.
Any nice dog can be retrained, and yours looks and sounds rather adorable to me.
Lots of good advice here, including ook's excellent comments. I would just lean hard on one things: positive reinforcement is like magic. It works. Effective training is not about who is boss, it is about making your dog feel wonderful about doing what you want the dog to do. It works fine to extingish bad behaviors too. It works fine with crate training as well, of which I am also a fan.
Sorry the prior owners didn't do a better job on your dog, which does look like a big version of a bichon frise to me, but careful, responsible, positive training can and will make all the difference.
posted by bearwife at 12:20 PM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Any nice dog can be retrained, and yours looks and sounds rather adorable to me.
Lots of good advice here, including ook's excellent comments. I would just lean hard on one things: positive reinforcement is like magic. It works. Effective training is not about who is boss, it is about making your dog feel wonderful about doing what you want the dog to do. It works fine to extingish bad behaviors too. It works fine with crate training as well, of which I am also a fan.
Sorry the prior owners didn't do a better job on your dog, which does look like a big version of a bichon frise to me, but careful, responsible, positive training can and will make all the difference.
posted by bearwife at 12:20 PM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I also have a rescue dog- stray off the street in our case. She had some of the problems that your dog has. The thing about training dogs is that you never take a break. Dog does X, I do Y. Every time. I am definitely the alpha dog and she has come to trust me to make good decisions for her. Even when I have to do something uncomfortable- pulling out thorns, bathing her, grooming her- she knows that I am not punishing her because I make happy calming noises and tell her how good she is.
Also, I've learned to anticipate the signs that she is about to start an unacceptable behavior (like chewing on her sore paw). I tell her to stop before she ever starts. Effect- OMG! Mama can read my mind!
My dog is about to go through testing to be a therapy dog now. She has been worth every minute of time invested in making her a happy, healthy, secure dog that can gently interact with everyone from an infant to someone bedridden from infirmity. And she's also my best beach buddy!
posted by kamikazegopher at 3:43 PM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, I've learned to anticipate the signs that she is about to start an unacceptable behavior (like chewing on her sore paw). I tell her to stop before she ever starts. Effect- OMG! Mama can read my mind!
My dog is about to go through testing to be a therapy dog now. She has been worth every minute of time invested in making her a happy, healthy, secure dog that can gently interact with everyone from an infant to someone bedridden from infirmity. And she's also my best beach buddy!
posted by kamikazegopher at 3:43 PM on December 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
The dog and the kid are adorable, by the way. Same smile!
posted by thinkpiece at 4:04 PM on December 7, 2011
posted by thinkpiece at 4:04 PM on December 7, 2011
Wow. I never, ever would expect nearly any of these behaviors from a well adjusted dog. No way.
Naturally, I'm sure you understand the responsibility of curbing these behaviors is in the hands of the dog owner. All of these behaviors are absolutely open to remedy. I strongly suggest The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson and The Other End of the Leash by Patricia B. McConnel. Further, researching Purely Positive Training and Clicker Training, and I absolutely recommend strong discernment in any of the techniques of Cesar Milan, Monks of New Skeet, or any similar venues of training.
And for the sanity of your family, I would likely put the belly band back on, until you can find a better solution, and consider crate training, asap.
A private trainer should be a last resort. All of the behaviors listed are really just the behaviors of a poorly trained, poorly adjusted dog, and pretty basic things to correct, regardless how discouraging.
posted by thewolfandewe at 7:49 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Naturally, I'm sure you understand the responsibility of curbing these behaviors is in the hands of the dog owner. All of these behaviors are absolutely open to remedy. I strongly suggest The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson and The Other End of the Leash by Patricia B. McConnel. Further, researching Purely Positive Training and Clicker Training, and I absolutely recommend strong discernment in any of the techniques of Cesar Milan, Monks of New Skeet, or any similar venues of training.
And for the sanity of your family, I would likely put the belly band back on, until you can find a better solution, and consider crate training, asap.
A private trainer should be a last resort. All of the behaviors listed are really just the behaviors of a poorly trained, poorly adjusted dog, and pretty basic things to correct, regardless how discouraging.
posted by thewolfandewe at 7:49 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm going to disagree strongly with thewolfandewe that a private trainer is "a last resort." For the lay dog owner--especially for a person who didn't want the dog in the first place--you need help in whatever form you can get it. There's no shame or undue process in hiring a private trainer for an hour, who will, after all, train the OWNER, not the dog. Although you should also be enrolled in a multi-week obedience class--and doing the homework--as well as reading about training techniques.
OP, you've received a lot of good advice above. I would only add that you get good, in-person help recognizing which behaviors are training issues (such as marking/pooping that isn't caused by a medical reason) vs. which are management issues.
In other words, it's an easier and more peaceful existence for your wife to simply put her purse in a place that's inaccessible to the dog instead of having to be vigilantly watching to see when the dog approaches the purse, yelling to your wife "OMG IS THERE ANY GUM IN THERE?" and grabbing a squirt gun or running to give him a collar pop or yell "NO" in his face. If the dog ever makes improvements in his behaviors to the point where you could voice train him to "Leave it" with certain items (and it's totally possible!), that would be the time to try to train him on the purse marauding. Until then, though, consider him a remedial student who needs to be set up to succeed, as someone wisely said above.
Get some help. This is fixable, provided the marking/pooping isn't a medical issue, which you should rule out with an exam.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:04 AM on March 17, 2012
OP, you've received a lot of good advice above. I would only add that you get good, in-person help recognizing which behaviors are training issues (such as marking/pooping that isn't caused by a medical reason) vs. which are management issues.
In other words, it's an easier and more peaceful existence for your wife to simply put her purse in a place that's inaccessible to the dog instead of having to be vigilantly watching to see when the dog approaches the purse, yelling to your wife "OMG IS THERE ANY GUM IN THERE?" and grabbing a squirt gun or running to give him a collar pop or yell "NO" in his face. If the dog ever makes improvements in his behaviors to the point where you could voice train him to "Leave it" with certain items (and it's totally possible!), that would be the time to try to train him on the purse marauding. Until then, though, consider him a remedial student who needs to be set up to succeed, as someone wisely said above.
Get some help. This is fixable, provided the marking/pooping isn't a medical issue, which you should rule out with an exam.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:04 AM on March 17, 2012
This dog isn't yours, and should not be your problem.
If your wife doesn't respond to how the dog doing dog things indoors bothers you, and doesn't want to do anything about it, the dog situation is a manifestation of her and how she feels about you.
Honestly, this situation isn't fair to you, and it isn't fair to the dog. You deserve to live in a dog shit- and piss-free house, and the dog deserves to live somewhere where it can be a dog. This is an issue you need to work out primarily with your wife, not with her dog. If your wife doesn't think you come before the dog, then... I would be reconsidering a lot of things.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:24 PM on March 17, 2012
If your wife doesn't respond to how the dog doing dog things indoors bothers you, and doesn't want to do anything about it, the dog situation is a manifestation of her and how she feels about you.
Honestly, this situation isn't fair to you, and it isn't fair to the dog. You deserve to live in a dog shit- and piss-free house, and the dog deserves to live somewhere where it can be a dog. This is an issue you need to work out primarily with your wife, not with her dog. If your wife doesn't think you come before the dog, then... I would be reconsidering a lot of things.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:24 PM on March 17, 2012
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posted by whalebreath at 6:32 AM on December 7, 2011 [7 favorites]