Wait, you knew the whole time and didn't tell us?!
November 14, 2011 2:22 AM Subscribe
I go to a California community college that writes course descriptions for every class it offers, but it doesn't display them on the actual class schedule. The college has an obscure web application (which I just found) that will give you the description if you enter in the course number, but it's barely advertised (it took me three semesters to find it). How do I go about getting the (much needed) course descriptions displayed with the class schedule? Is this an issue I need to join the ASB to get publicised? Is there another way to go about this? I want to make a stink, because for a year and a half now I've been dealing with inadequate or often nonexistent class descriptions which have made choosing the appropriate classes a challenge.
Due to budget cuts, my school only publishes the class schedule as an online database now, no more hard copies, so it's not like it's an issue of sunk costs. In their database there's actually a field, often empty, which gives space for course descriptions. Half the time, it's empty, or contains a short sentence, even though the college solicits much more detailed course descriptions for every class offered! How can we choose classes properly if we don't have more than a course title to go off of? Before I thought it was just a complete lack of oversight, but finding out that there is actually an office at my college responsible for soliciting and verifying course descriptions, and yet those course descriptions are not being published in the class schedule... that's a call to action.
Clearly there's a disconnect here, and I want to reconnect it. How do I do that?
Due to budget cuts, my school only publishes the class schedule as an online database now, no more hard copies, so it's not like it's an issue of sunk costs. In their database there's actually a field, often empty, which gives space for course descriptions. Half the time, it's empty, or contains a short sentence, even though the college solicits much more detailed course descriptions for every class offered! How can we choose classes properly if we don't have more than a course title to go off of? Before I thought it was just a complete lack of oversight, but finding out that there is actually an office at my college responsible for soliciting and verifying course descriptions, and yet those course descriptions are not being published in the class schedule... that's a call to action.
Clearly there's a disconnect here, and I want to reconnect it. How do I do that?
Response by poster: Okay zanni, I actually bought the current year's catalog recently because I needed a 60 cent pencil and the bookstore has a $3.00 limit on debit card purchases and you're right, the descriptions line up with those from this obscure web interface my college offers.
So is this an unchangeable thing? Is this one of those zen moments? I found the obscure web interface, and for that I must be grateful?
posted by malapropist at 2:48 AM on November 14, 2011
So is this an unchangeable thing? Is this one of those zen moments? I found the obscure web interface, and for that I must be grateful?
posted by malapropist at 2:48 AM on November 14, 2011
It is typically assumed that you will go through the course catalog and choose which classes you want, and then the schedule won't be posted until the very moment before the semester starts.
I think your problem here is that you're choosing your classes by reading through the schedule rather than choosing them based on what's it the course catalog and then looking up the schedule later.
The point is that you need to ignore the schedule and consult it only at the last minute. The course catalog is your main resource.
posted by deanc at 2:57 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think your problem here is that you're choosing your classes by reading through the schedule rather than choosing them based on what's it the course catalog and then looking up the schedule later.
The point is that you need to ignore the schedule and consult it only at the last minute. The course catalog is your main resource.
posted by deanc at 2:57 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
The university I work for uses a program whereby the course descriptions are linked to the registration page for each course. The schedule and course descriptions are publicly available for anyone to see....I think this is a requirement of our accreditation renewal, even. All that info. needs to be publicly available, as does contact info. for each every professor and lecturer.
In fact, what the student see is directly linked to what the registrar has input, so if any changes occur, what the students see is updated immediately with what the registrar's office updates.
Short version, what you're asking is completely possible electronically and standard at the institutions I've encountered professionally. But to get it to happen, you're probably going to have to talk to some high up people about why it's not. I'd start by calling the registrar and asking what's up with this.
FWIW, our class schedule has a short description underneath it online, but when the course title is clicked, a pop up with all the information including the full description comes up. Our classes are also searchable through a .pdf version of the print catalog. This is updated and posted every year, but it's no longer printed. It doesn't contain the schedule because it's an overview of all courses offered within the last three years --- not every course is offered every semester, though.
posted by zizzle at 5:11 AM on November 14, 2011
In fact, what the student see is directly linked to what the registrar has input, so if any changes occur, what the students see is updated immediately with what the registrar's office updates.
Short version, what you're asking is completely possible electronically and standard at the institutions I've encountered professionally. But to get it to happen, you're probably going to have to talk to some high up people about why it's not. I'd start by calling the registrar and asking what's up with this.
FWIW, our class schedule has a short description underneath it online, but when the course title is clicked, a pop up with all the information including the full description comes up. Our classes are also searchable through a .pdf version of the print catalog. This is updated and posted every year, but it's no longer printed. It doesn't contain the schedule because it's an overview of all courses offered within the last three years --- not every course is offered every semester, though.
posted by zizzle at 5:11 AM on November 14, 2011
Are you trying to earn a degree or certificate? My guide for success would go something like this:
1) Find an adviser who doesn't suck. Talk to him/her and make sure the degree/certificate program you're enrolled in actually does what you want (too many people skip this step).
2) Look at the requirements for your degree program. Based on the location in your profile, your college has nice worksheets called "Curriculum Guides". Make sure you get the one for your catalog year! (Although, it might also be possible for you to switch to a more recent catalog year, if that's beneficial to you..but then again, usually it's not worth while.)
3) Make three lists:
a) required classes
b) electives relevant to your major
c) general education electives which are not specifically relevant to your major
4) Read the entries in the course catalog for list (b). Make some notes about what sounds interesting.
5) Go back to your adviser. Talk about list (a): ask if any of these classes are only offered in alternating semesters or any similar nonsense. Ask if there are any hidden things like "you really should take this class before this other class, even though it's not an official prereq". Talk about list (b): ask which options here are more serious. Ask which ones fit in better with your goals. If you're planning on getting a job in your field, which ones will employers look for? If you're planning on transferring to another college, which ones will transfer and which ones will be required there? Talk about list (c): If you're planning to transfer, are there any classes which will specifically be required by your new college?
6) Now look at the schedule. Look at RateMyProfessor. Look at your lists. Usually the choices here are obvious.
posted by anaelith at 5:39 AM on November 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
1) Find an adviser who doesn't suck. Talk to him/her and make sure the degree/certificate program you're enrolled in actually does what you want (too many people skip this step).
2) Look at the requirements for your degree program. Based on the location in your profile, your college has nice worksheets called "Curriculum Guides". Make sure you get the one for your catalog year! (Although, it might also be possible for you to switch to a more recent catalog year, if that's beneficial to you..but then again, usually it's not worth while.)
3) Make three lists:
a) required classes
b) electives relevant to your major
c) general education electives which are not specifically relevant to your major
4) Read the entries in the course catalog for list (b). Make some notes about what sounds interesting.
5) Go back to your adviser. Talk about list (a): ask if any of these classes are only offered in alternating semesters or any similar nonsense. Ask if there are any hidden things like "you really should take this class before this other class, even though it's not an official prereq". Talk about list (b): ask which options here are more serious. Ask which ones fit in better with your goals. If you're planning on getting a job in your field, which ones will employers look for? If you're planning on transferring to another college, which ones will transfer and which ones will be required there? Talk about list (c): If you're planning to transfer, are there any classes which will specifically be required by your new college?
6) Now look at the schedule. Look at RateMyProfessor. Look at your lists. Usually the choices here are obvious.
posted by anaelith at 5:39 AM on November 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh, and the whole point, which I somehow never got around to explaining, is that those little descriptions in the catalog are pretty useless, they're only there as a jumping off point so you can go have a conversation with your adviser about what classes are actually practical, will transfer, will teach you something which actually interests you instead of what sounds like it might be interesting in the blurb,....
If you're a non-degree student (you're going for fun?), then they might be more useful.
posted by anaelith at 5:45 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you're a non-degree student (you're going for fun?), then they might be more useful.
posted by anaelith at 5:45 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Community college professor here: Spitbull is probably closest to the answer. I don't know how community colleges are funded in California, but in Illinois there is no budget for the things that would make life convenient (for students OR faculty). This won't be fixed in the time that you are a student, or probably in your lifetime. anaelith has some great suggestions.
I have to input my id and password THREE times in one session just to post final grades for my classes, because none of the various db's talk to each other. Grar.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:55 AM on November 14, 2011
I have to input my id and password THREE times in one session just to post final grades for my classes, because none of the various db's talk to each other. Grar.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:55 AM on November 14, 2011
On preview, anaelith speaks the truth again. The description was written to get approval for the course, probably in 1978 when the course was first proposed. Maybe, or more likely not, some student worker needed busywork and made some updates to the descriptions around 1993, and they've been worded that way ever since, even though the course content may have changed a bit (or a lot). This is why it's important to work with an adviser IN THE DEPARTMENT OF YOUR MAJOR to get the latest info.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:59 AM on November 14, 2011
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:59 AM on November 14, 2011
Response by poster: Alright, first off I want to acnowledge that the advice by anaelith to check with my advisor is good advice, that I have not gotten before. I've met the department head once before, and I'll be on the lookout now for opportunities to talk to her.
Also, after comparing a few more of the descriptions in the course catalog to that of my aforementioned obscure web interface, some of the ones on the website appear to be more recently updated, and in certain departments, the web description is much, much longer than the description in the printed catalog, although some language overlaps. Also, the obscure web interface lists which teacher approved the most recent description of the course, and which date, as well as the name of the office clerk who reviewed the description of the course, and what date he signed off on it. Considering that every class I've checked has a date no earlier than 2009, I feel pretty good about the oversight as far as making sure a description of the class exists. It's just that this description is not always making it into the class schedule database, even though sometimes it is, depending on department. There is no reason for whole departments of class listings to be missing descriptions, even though someone is already tasked with writing them out and verifying them with their department.
Why not connect the descriptions with the class schedule? As some have said, colleges often have redundant systems. I believe someone above said he has to log in three times to be able to perform his duties as a professor. That's not exactly what I'm talking about. What I propose is not to connect the obscure web interface with the main class schedule database; the class schedule database is an unwieldy Oracle web application that I hate, but the obscure web interface appears to be a custom job, a basic interface with a database with a dropdown menu of all of the classes my school currently offers.
What I'm proposing is that the school already requires instructors and department heads to write these descriptions. Every class, as far as I can see, has had a description written for it already. Additionally, there's already a field in every class's listing in the class schedule for the class description. We don't need to connect up these two databases in a technological way, all we need to do is to get an intern to spend an afternoon or two posting these paragraph-long descriptions from the obscure web interface to the class schedule, in the fields that are already there, empty and ready for these descriptions.
I guess what frustrates me is that depending on the department, some classes have long descriptions (up to maybe 5 sentences) on the general access class schedule database, while some have no descriptions at all. Meanwhile, every course has already had a course description written for it, and some of those are going unused.
posted by malapropist at 1:44 AM on November 15, 2011
Also, after comparing a few more of the descriptions in the course catalog to that of my aforementioned obscure web interface, some of the ones on the website appear to be more recently updated, and in certain departments, the web description is much, much longer than the description in the printed catalog, although some language overlaps. Also, the obscure web interface lists which teacher approved the most recent description of the course, and which date, as well as the name of the office clerk who reviewed the description of the course, and what date he signed off on it. Considering that every class I've checked has a date no earlier than 2009, I feel pretty good about the oversight as far as making sure a description of the class exists. It's just that this description is not always making it into the class schedule database, even though sometimes it is, depending on department. There is no reason for whole departments of class listings to be missing descriptions, even though someone is already tasked with writing them out and verifying them with their department.
Why not connect the descriptions with the class schedule? As some have said, colleges often have redundant systems. I believe someone above said he has to log in three times to be able to perform his duties as a professor. That's not exactly what I'm talking about. What I propose is not to connect the obscure web interface with the main class schedule database; the class schedule database is an unwieldy Oracle web application that I hate, but the obscure web interface appears to be a custom job, a basic interface with a database with a dropdown menu of all of the classes my school currently offers.
What I'm proposing is that the school already requires instructors and department heads to write these descriptions. Every class, as far as I can see, has had a description written for it already. Additionally, there's already a field in every class's listing in the class schedule for the class description. We don't need to connect up these two databases in a technological way, all we need to do is to get an intern to spend an afternoon or two posting these paragraph-long descriptions from the obscure web interface to the class schedule, in the fields that are already there, empty and ready for these descriptions.
I guess what frustrates me is that depending on the department, some classes have long descriptions (up to maybe 5 sentences) on the general access class schedule database, while some have no descriptions at all. Meanwhile, every course has already had a course description written for it, and some of those are going unused.
posted by malapropist at 1:44 AM on November 15, 2011
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posted by zanni at 2:32 AM on November 14, 2011