Not tonight, I'm washing my hair.
September 9, 2011 5:42 AM Subscribe
My boyfriend and I want different things from our social lives. How can we make it work?
I am something of an introvert. I am happy to go out and see friends up to twice a week, but any more than that feels pressuring and tiring. I also like to plan ahead by at least 2-3 days, and don't often accept spontaneous invitations. I work 40 hours a week, do yoga, make artwork, cook, try and keep my life in order - considering that, seeing friends once or twice a week by pre-arrangement is plenty.
My boyfriend is mostly similar to me, apart from a few key differences. Firstly, he has more of a sense of obligation than me to accept invitations from friends, and feels bad if he is unavailable too often, even if he has a good reason. Just wanting to stay home and watch TV is not a good reason to him. He also works 20 hours a week, so has much more alone time and opportunity to be creative than I do. I think he gets his fill of that, while I do not. He also has a desire to be a more 'spontaneous person', and though he is a planner himself, he beats himself up for not being more spontaneous - of course this is harder for him when he has a girlfriend who is perfectly happy as a planner. Yet another factor is that most of our friends work part-time: I am the exception to the rule. So they are more capable of going out more often and staying out late, and extend lots of invitations.
So sometimes when we are both invited to an event by a mutual friend, we disagree on whether to attend or not. Of course, the easiest solution would be for me to stay home and for him to attend, but all our friends are couples who always attend events together, and it would be weird for him to suddenly start going to things on his own. Plus, he doesn't want to - we're both a little socially anxious, and he likes having me there for moral support.
For a number of years I felt the same obligation to be sociable as my boyfriend. Then I started in on therapy, which has helped me feel stronger in saying 'no', and has helped me get rid of a lot of my social guilt. So we have been fighting about this issue more of late. My boyfriend has just started his own course of therapy, and I'm hopeful that this will help him get rid of some of that social guilt (by his own admission, this is what he wants), but I can't rely on that happening.
Is there a way we can find a compromise or come up with a plan that suits us both? Is there a way I can communicate with him about this without making him defensive? Should I just wait and see if the therapy makes a difference? Or am I the one being uptight, am I being unreasonable by not being more spontaneous? Any thoughts or advice would be most welcome, thanks guys!
I am something of an introvert. I am happy to go out and see friends up to twice a week, but any more than that feels pressuring and tiring. I also like to plan ahead by at least 2-3 days, and don't often accept spontaneous invitations. I work 40 hours a week, do yoga, make artwork, cook, try and keep my life in order - considering that, seeing friends once or twice a week by pre-arrangement is plenty.
My boyfriend is mostly similar to me, apart from a few key differences. Firstly, he has more of a sense of obligation than me to accept invitations from friends, and feels bad if he is unavailable too often, even if he has a good reason. Just wanting to stay home and watch TV is not a good reason to him. He also works 20 hours a week, so has much more alone time and opportunity to be creative than I do. I think he gets his fill of that, while I do not. He also has a desire to be a more 'spontaneous person', and though he is a planner himself, he beats himself up for not being more spontaneous - of course this is harder for him when he has a girlfriend who is perfectly happy as a planner. Yet another factor is that most of our friends work part-time: I am the exception to the rule. So they are more capable of going out more often and staying out late, and extend lots of invitations.
So sometimes when we are both invited to an event by a mutual friend, we disagree on whether to attend or not. Of course, the easiest solution would be for me to stay home and for him to attend, but all our friends are couples who always attend events together, and it would be weird for him to suddenly start going to things on his own. Plus, he doesn't want to - we're both a little socially anxious, and he likes having me there for moral support.
For a number of years I felt the same obligation to be sociable as my boyfriend. Then I started in on therapy, which has helped me feel stronger in saying 'no', and has helped me get rid of a lot of my social guilt. So we have been fighting about this issue more of late. My boyfriend has just started his own course of therapy, and I'm hopeful that this will help him get rid of some of that social guilt (by his own admission, this is what he wants), but I can't rely on that happening.
Is there a way we can find a compromise or come up with a plan that suits us both? Is there a way I can communicate with him about this without making him defensive? Should I just wait and see if the therapy makes a difference? Or am I the one being uptight, am I being unreasonable by not being more spontaneous? Any thoughts or advice would be most welcome, thanks guys!
What about just stating up front with you friends that you "would love to attend/join you, but I already scheduled something and need a few days warning" -- give a reply like that after the last minute invites and over time, your friends are likely to help out and may change that over time.
It sounds like he is stating this as a need (with the social anxiety he wants you to be there). I don't see what is wrong with--you are there a few times a week, but you also have a week to do your hobby X/night per week or have some alone time or have some time with another friend (and it is a need...a need for alone time...or a need for art time, whatever). You can agree in advance to the 2 nights/week with friends or 3 nights if they give you warning, but you feel more balanced as a person to have the other night unwinding and he can pursue his own friendships, whatever, on those nights.
I've actually seen a lot of people do this, dating couples and married couples. Some of the happiest couples that I've seen do have a few nights with other people and a few nights on their own. One of the people from one of these couples even said, "This is better than when we did everything together. Now we have something to talk about -- I have some of my own friends and interests, he has his own, and later on we talk about." Just an idea.
posted by Wolfster at 6:06 AM on September 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
It sounds like he is stating this as a need (with the social anxiety he wants you to be there). I don't see what is wrong with--you are there a few times a week, but you also have a week to do your hobby X/night per week or have some alone time or have some time with another friend (and it is a need...a need for alone time...or a need for art time, whatever). You can agree in advance to the 2 nights/week with friends or 3 nights if they give you warning, but you feel more balanced as a person to have the other night unwinding and he can pursue his own friendships, whatever, on those nights.
I've actually seen a lot of people do this, dating couples and married couples. Some of the happiest couples that I've seen do have a few nights with other people and a few nights on their own. One of the people from one of these couples even said, "This is better than when we did everything together. Now we have something to talk about -- I have some of my own friends and interests, he has his own, and later on we talk about." Just an idea.
posted by Wolfster at 6:06 AM on September 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
A compromise is just that. Think about how flexible you're willing to be to accommodate his desire to be social and spontaneous. What feels reasonable to you? And he should think about how flexible he wants to be to accommodate your need for advanced planning and limited social engagements. Maybe that means one spontaneous and one planned outing each week. If he wants more than that, then he goes alone if you don't care to join him and he can't pressure you otherwise. You're not joined at the hip and it's OK for a grown up, even one in a relationship, to go to an event alone. Just as it's OK to say no to not going, it's also OK to say my girlfriend wanted to stay in tonight, even if others think it's weird, which may be all in your head and is another form of social guilt.
posted by shoesietart at 6:08 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by shoesietart at 6:08 AM on September 9, 2011
You're halfway there - you know that you want the alone time and it's important to you, but you're not comfortable asserting that to other people. It's understandable that you feel a little guilty for turning down invitations when your boyfriend wants you to be there, but you do NOT need to be his social crutch. If he wants to go out more and be spontaneous, that really is his decision, and he should be doing it by himself rather than pressuring you to tag along.
There's no reason why he can't say "my girlfriend's home working on a project tonight" to explain your non-presence - I think your and his hesitation to say this comes from the deeply ingrained idea that extrovert > introvert, and spending time alone is somehow suspect. But you both KNOW that's not true for you, so you've just gotta stand your ground and own it. Your friends will miss you of course, but there's no reason for them to make a big deal out of it or hold it against you.
posted by ella wren at 6:10 AM on September 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
There's no reason why he can't say "my girlfriend's home working on a project tonight" to explain your non-presence - I think your and his hesitation to say this comes from the deeply ingrained idea that extrovert > introvert, and spending time alone is somehow suspect. But you both KNOW that's not true for you, so you've just gotta stand your ground and own it. Your friends will miss you of course, but there's no reason for them to make a big deal out of it or hold it against you.
posted by ella wren at 6:10 AM on September 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
You're not joined at the hip and it's OK for a grown up, even one in a relationship, to go to an event alone. Just as it's OK to say no to not going, it's also OK to say my girlfriend wanted to stay in tonight, even if others think it's weird, which may be all in your head and is another form of social guilt.
Yep. He should understand that you are not beholden to attend everything he wants to go to. And you should understand that sometimes you do have to go. Tada! Compromise! (I say this as the introverted homebody of my relationship).
Also, there's really no need to lie to anyone or come up with excuses as to why you don't go out as often as other people. You're an adult who doesn't want to do something, why the hell shouldn't you come out and say "No thanks, I don't want to do that"? (Plus it might add to an air of mystery and intrigue (I'm only kind of kidding))
posted by wrok at 6:16 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yep. He should understand that you are not beholden to attend everything he wants to go to. And you should understand that sometimes you do have to go. Tada! Compromise! (I say this as the introverted homebody of my relationship).
Also, there's really no need to lie to anyone or come up with excuses as to why you don't go out as often as other people. You're an adult who doesn't want to do something, why the hell shouldn't you come out and say "No thanks, I don't want to do that"? (Plus it might add to an air of mystery and intrigue (I'm only kind of kidding))
posted by wrok at 6:16 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
So you want to go out twice a week, planned; he wants to go out some number more than twice a week, unplanned. Why not have a compromise? You'll go out three times a week, 1 planned/2 unplanned or 2 planned/1 unplanned. If he wants to go out more, he can, but without you. Your friends will cope with this just fine, especially as they know you work fulltime and they do not.
posted by jeather at 6:24 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 6:24 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The thing to keep in mind about those spontaneous invitations (that your boyfriend may not understand yet) is that it's often a shotgun blast of "Hey, I have an idea! It would be cool if all my friends could attend! I'll ask X."
Speaking as a spontaneous ex-planner introvert, it's really no big deal if people can't attend. Any disappointment I feel is more of an "oh bummer, they're going to miss this cool fun thing", but mostly I feel like I've done my duty by giving them the opportunity to join and that maybe next time they'll be free.
Sometimes I also issue invitations to things when I'd almost rather stay home anyway, so if they turn it down then it frees us both from the social opportunity.
posted by bookdragoness at 6:25 AM on September 9, 2011 [7 favorites]
Speaking as a spontaneous ex-planner introvert, it's really no big deal if people can't attend. Any disappointment I feel is more of an "oh bummer, they're going to miss this cool fun thing", but mostly I feel like I've done my duty by giving them the opportunity to join and that maybe next time they'll be free.
Sometimes I also issue invitations to things when I'd almost rather stay home anyway, so if they turn it down then it frees us both from the social opportunity.
posted by bookdragoness at 6:25 AM on September 9, 2011 [7 favorites]
For compromising, once in a while:
Some introverts I know are good in social settings for only about an hour or two, and then they're spent. If part of your hesitation to go out comes from feeling like it will last too long, then there are two choices you can present to him:
a) You go together to just drop in - only plan to stay an hour, as agreed upon ahead of time. He will have to be ok with adhering to this rule if he wants you to accept going out when you aren't terribly up for it.
b) You go together but in separate cars, or make sure he can get a ride home later, so you can visit for an hour and then bow out.
posted by lizbunny at 6:30 AM on September 9, 2011
Some introverts I know are good in social settings for only about an hour or two, and then they're spent. If part of your hesitation to go out comes from feeling like it will last too long, then there are two choices you can present to him:
a) You go together to just drop in - only plan to stay an hour, as agreed upon ahead of time. He will have to be ok with adhering to this rule if he wants you to accept going out when you aren't terribly up for it.
b) You go together but in separate cars, or make sure he can get a ride home later, so you can visit for an hour and then bow out.
posted by lizbunny at 6:30 AM on September 9, 2011
Get a calendar. Put social engagements on it. You agree to go to two per week. If a week does not have two planned, that leaves room for an impromptu engagement.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:13 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 7:13 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Sounds like part of the problem may be that your boyfriend is viewing these outings not just in terms of the pleasure you or he would get from the night, but in terms of larger values and obligations (spontaneity, being obliging to friends). Thus, deciding to go becomes not just a matter of compromise between two different-but-equal tastes (like picking a Chinese vs. Indian restaurant), but a matter of his values vs. your mere preferences (like going to church vs. watching the game).
For this reason, I think it'd definitely be worth having a conversation with your bf to clarify that, as you say, this sense of obligation is his alone-- that you disagree that staying home would let down your friends or brand you as a fuddy-duddy, and consequently, that he needs to accept that your attendance at events over the two-per-week quota is mostly being done as a favor to him, not because you also consider it The Right Thing To Do. That preliminary point of clarification might make it a bit easier to forge ahead with one of the excellent systems of compromise suggested above.
posted by Bardolph at 8:11 AM on September 9, 2011 [8 favorites]
For this reason, I think it'd definitely be worth having a conversation with your bf to clarify that, as you say, this sense of obligation is his alone-- that you disagree that staying home would let down your friends or brand you as a fuddy-duddy, and consequently, that he needs to accept that your attendance at events over the two-per-week quota is mostly being done as a favor to him, not because you also consider it The Right Thing To Do. That preliminary point of clarification might make it a bit easier to forge ahead with one of the excellent systems of compromise suggested above.
posted by Bardolph at 8:11 AM on September 9, 2011 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Bardolph, I think you nailed the core problem for me. I always feel as if I'm the 'bad' one because I don't want to be as sociable as him, and I hate that he thinks badly of me for not having quite the same values. I guess I'm looking for ways to suggest a compromise to him without being apologetic or defiant about it, and while getting across the message that neither of us is right or wrong, we're just different. It feels like an impossible task to try and convince him of that through my words alone, which I guess is why I've been wondering if I should just wait and see what happens with his therapy.
Once I figure out exactly how to frame the compromise, I will gladly opt for one of the great suggestions you guys have provided. I really like the calendar idea, cheers DarlingBri, and leaving events earlier than him sometimes would also be great - you're right, lizbunny, it is often the length of events that poses a problem for me.
posted by guessthis at 8:25 AM on September 9, 2011
Once I figure out exactly how to frame the compromise, I will gladly opt for one of the great suggestions you guys have provided. I really like the calendar idea, cheers DarlingBri, and leaving events earlier than him sometimes would also be great - you're right, lizbunny, it is often the length of events that poses a problem for me.
posted by guessthis at 8:25 AM on September 9, 2011
Best answer: I can't answer the question of how to frame this discussion with your boyfriend, but I can offer some insight.
I'm an extrovert who has trouble with the length and intensity of lots of social events. I get tired, I get over stimulated, I get jostled, I get startled by loud noises. (Thanks, huge screamy family parties that devolved into drunken fistfights and other PTSD inducing events!)
So, I go for as long as I can handle it. In situations where it's not possible to actually leave the event (weddings, beach houses, galas) I scope out the private-ish areas. If it comes down to spending a few minutes alone in the bathroom, I do that. For events where I can leave - trivia nights, ball games, birthday parties, well.... I leave when I'm ready. And I've gotten better at figuring out when I'm ready. I no longer wait until I'm on the verge of melt down. Sometimes I know that my threshold may be 1/2 hour. Sometimes I expect to last an hour. When I know my stay is going to be short, I let the host (if there is one) know that "I've got something else to get to, but I really wanted to stop in and say hi! Thank you so much for having us all over." This does a few things. It makes the host feel appreciated, and it cuts off any potential for rumors or hurt about why I'm leaving early.
Some things that help me last longer: a good hearty meal, but not sleep inducing. Plenty of water. A bit of meditation earlier in the day. Deep breaths. I bring my knitting to a lot of things, and that gives me a "reason" to be sitting down quietly. Sometimes people will ask me about my project, and I bring things that are pretty mindless, so I can have conversation when I feel like it.
Maybe also grab a copy of Deborah Tannen's book "You Just don't Understand" which is about men and women communicating. Not just in relationships, but in all kinds of situations. It will give you an idea of some of the conflicts you're facing that are not just about whether introversion or extroversion is "more valuable" but also about the ways we're really raised in different cultures. For instance, women are trained to appease and compromise, while men are taught to negotiate hard for their position and to concede less. This tendency is definitely impacting the conversations you've been having about going out. To whit: you go out when you don't want to, and you feel bad about staying in on the occasions when you do stick to your guns. This, many sociologists say, is a result of culture. It is not a personality defect!
posted by bilabial at 8:46 AM on September 9, 2011
I'm an extrovert who has trouble with the length and intensity of lots of social events. I get tired, I get over stimulated, I get jostled, I get startled by loud noises. (Thanks, huge screamy family parties that devolved into drunken fistfights and other PTSD inducing events!)
So, I go for as long as I can handle it. In situations where it's not possible to actually leave the event (weddings, beach houses, galas) I scope out the private-ish areas. If it comes down to spending a few minutes alone in the bathroom, I do that. For events where I can leave - trivia nights, ball games, birthday parties, well.... I leave when I'm ready. And I've gotten better at figuring out when I'm ready. I no longer wait until I'm on the verge of melt down. Sometimes I know that my threshold may be 1/2 hour. Sometimes I expect to last an hour. When I know my stay is going to be short, I let the host (if there is one) know that "I've got something else to get to, but I really wanted to stop in and say hi! Thank you so much for having us all over." This does a few things. It makes the host feel appreciated, and it cuts off any potential for rumors or hurt about why I'm leaving early.
Some things that help me last longer: a good hearty meal, but not sleep inducing. Plenty of water. A bit of meditation earlier in the day. Deep breaths. I bring my knitting to a lot of things, and that gives me a "reason" to be sitting down quietly. Sometimes people will ask me about my project, and I bring things that are pretty mindless, so I can have conversation when I feel like it.
Maybe also grab a copy of Deborah Tannen's book "You Just don't Understand" which is about men and women communicating. Not just in relationships, but in all kinds of situations. It will give you an idea of some of the conflicts you're facing that are not just about whether introversion or extroversion is "more valuable" but also about the ways we're really raised in different cultures. For instance, women are trained to appease and compromise, while men are taught to negotiate hard for their position and to concede less. This tendency is definitely impacting the conversations you've been having about going out. To whit: you go out when you don't want to, and you feel bad about staying in on the occasions when you do stick to your guns. This, many sociologists say, is a result of culture. It is not a personality defect!
posted by bilabial at 8:46 AM on September 9, 2011
First, I think that going out 2 times a week is certainly a fair number especially when you work 40 hours a week. I fully understand your need for alone time, lazy time, and creative time. Certain people need that and if you're one of them your boyfriend needs to understand that and respect that. Beyond this, the first and most important issue here is that both of you need to come to an understanding as to how you feel about him going out with out you. On the one hand you say that he feels more comfortable with you around when he's out with friends. If this is true, he needs to get over that. On the flip side, you must make it fully clear to him that it's ok for him to go out with out you there. And if you choose not to go out, then I believe it's fully acceptable for him to go out without you especially if you wanna just stay home and be lazy or work on some artwork. My gut is telling me that there may be more of an issue here with him thinking that you'll be mad if he goes out without you and you...deep down inside being mad or jealous that he's out with out you. You two need to figure that out for yourselves. It's good to see both of you are in counseling. I will tell you this...one of the best things about my marriage is that my wife and I are extremely independent people and do not try to hold each other back from doing what we want...even if we both don't participate. Of course we have plenty of together time to but we have plenty of separate time. Since I work from home, I want to get out of the house on the weekends and go places. Since she works 45 hour weeks, she generally wants to stay home and be lazy on the weekends. So we often find ourselves doing different things half the time, and joining up the other half. Compromise, no jealousy, no controlling behavior. Hope this helps.
posted by ljs30 at 8:58 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by ljs30 at 8:58 AM on September 9, 2011
He has more available hours, as do his friends; you do not. He and his friends like to go out more than you do. Seems easy enough; he should encourage his friends to do things at times you are unavailable. That, or simply accept that he'll be going out without you on some occasions. Doesn't seem particularly difficult, so I have to wonder: are one or the other of you actually getting upset about the difference, or are you being pre-emptive (planning) for the possibility?
posted by davejay at 9:46 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by davejay at 9:46 AM on September 9, 2011
Ah, just read this:
I always feel as if I'm the 'bad' one because I don't want to be as sociable as him, and I hate that he thinks badly of me for not having quite the same values.
Is he actually expressing that he thinks badly of you? If so, that is a core value judgement that he should definitely discuss in therapy. Is there any possibility that you're projecting, though? You say you feel as if you're the bad one...are you just assuming he considers you the bad one, too, or has he actually expressed it?
posted by davejay at 9:48 AM on September 9, 2011
I always feel as if I'm the 'bad' one because I don't want to be as sociable as him, and I hate that he thinks badly of me for not having quite the same values.
Is he actually expressing that he thinks badly of you? If so, that is a core value judgement that he should definitely discuss in therapy. Is there any possibility that you're projecting, though? You say you feel as if you're the bad one...are you just assuming he considers you the bad one, too, or has he actually expressed it?
posted by davejay at 9:48 AM on September 9, 2011
Best answer: I guess I'm looking for ways to suggest a compromise to him without being apologetic or defiant about it, and while getting across the message that neither of us is right or wrong, we're just different.
One fairly neutral way to address this might be to frame the issue in terms of your capabilities, not your preferences or beliefs.
In your daily life, you have a set of obligations to be present in, and devote energy to, your various relationships-- with bf, with your job, with your family and friends, etc. Unfortunately, being an introvert means that constitutionally-- even biologically-- there are limits on the amount of energy you can expend in socialization, without needing to "make up" that energy elsewhere in your life. That means that maybe you could spend 5 nights a week hanging out with friends, but by doing that, you'd be taking energy from other areas of your life where it's validly owed-- so maybe you'd end up being tired and unfocused at work, or snappy and unsympathetic with your boyfriend, etc. Or maybe the energy debt would just build until your body took steps to forcibly right things by giving you a migraine or the flu for a few days. One way or another, though, the piper ends up being paid.
As an introvert myself, I can say with some confidence that this is not a rationalization; we're not just being lazy or selfish, we legitimately have a limited capacity to expend social energy over the long term. And since you have a busy life, part of being responsible in your other relationships means prioritizing and planning those expenditures wisely, with a realistic sense of your own limitations, so you don't end up crapping out when other people really need you. Perhaps if you explain it this way to your boyfriend-- I'd love to be a total social butterfly with you, but I just can't go out that much and still be a good girlfriend and worker and friend-- he might be less inclined to blame you the next time you need a few nights at home. As the saying goes, gotta fasten your own airmask before you can take care of other people's.
posted by Bardolph at 10:25 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
One fairly neutral way to address this might be to frame the issue in terms of your capabilities, not your preferences or beliefs.
In your daily life, you have a set of obligations to be present in, and devote energy to, your various relationships-- with bf, with your job, with your family and friends, etc. Unfortunately, being an introvert means that constitutionally-- even biologically-- there are limits on the amount of energy you can expend in socialization, without needing to "make up" that energy elsewhere in your life. That means that maybe you could spend 5 nights a week hanging out with friends, but by doing that, you'd be taking energy from other areas of your life where it's validly owed-- so maybe you'd end up being tired and unfocused at work, or snappy and unsympathetic with your boyfriend, etc. Or maybe the energy debt would just build until your body took steps to forcibly right things by giving you a migraine or the flu for a few days. One way or another, though, the piper ends up being paid.
As an introvert myself, I can say with some confidence that this is not a rationalization; we're not just being lazy or selfish, we legitimately have a limited capacity to expend social energy over the long term. And since you have a busy life, part of being responsible in your other relationships means prioritizing and planning those expenditures wisely, with a realistic sense of your own limitations, so you don't end up crapping out when other people really need you. Perhaps if you explain it this way to your boyfriend-- I'd love to be a total social butterfly with you, but I just can't go out that much and still be a good girlfriend and worker and friend-- he might be less inclined to blame you the next time you need a few nights at home. As the saying goes, gotta fasten your own airmask before you can take care of other people's.
posted by Bardolph at 10:25 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Perhaps if you explain it this way to your boyfriend-- I'd love to be a total social butterfly with you, but I just can't go out that much and still be a good girlfriend and worker and friend-- he might be less inclined to blame you the next time you need a few nights at home.
I am under the impression that guessthis doesn't want to be a social butterfly, so lying about that seems to be a bad idea. There is probably a way to explain that which doesn't say "well, I want to go out, I just cannot", because (if she's anything like me) the truth is "I probably could go out, but I don't want to". I'd say to be sure that you're not letting introversion and laziness take hold, but if you go out twice a week it doesn't seem likely.
If he is making you feel guilty because you don't want to socialise, is it because he thinks you are wrong or because he really wants to go out with you? Neither are good, but they have different ways to respond.
posted by jeather at 11:34 AM on September 9, 2011
I am under the impression that guessthis doesn't want to be a social butterfly, so lying about that seems to be a bad idea. There is probably a way to explain that which doesn't say "well, I want to go out, I just cannot", because (if she's anything like me) the truth is "I probably could go out, but I don't want to". I'd say to be sure that you're not letting introversion and laziness take hold, but if you go out twice a week it doesn't seem likely.
If he is making you feel guilty because you don't want to socialise, is it because he thinks you are wrong or because he really wants to go out with you? Neither are good, but they have different ways to respond.
posted by jeather at 11:34 AM on September 9, 2011
The best advice I can give is to reach and agree to a compromise on this now. It need not be 100% inflexible, but it should be specific. Something like going 2-3 times per week and not generally more. He could plan a lunch one or two days per week during your workday. This would allow him to socialize more than you do, and you have a good reason for not being there.
I know a couple who were divorced over this very issue, so I would really encourage you to compromise on something you both can live with. You'll know you have a problem if he wants to go out increasingly often, invites you, you're not up to it and he just goes anyway. It simply will not work if either of you beats yourself up trying to live up to the other's expectations.
posted by cnc at 12:05 PM on September 9, 2011
I know a couple who were divorced over this very issue, so I would really encourage you to compromise on something you both can live with. You'll know you have a problem if he wants to go out increasingly often, invites you, you're not up to it and he just goes anyway. It simply will not work if either of you beats yourself up trying to live up to the other's expectations.
posted by cnc at 12:05 PM on September 9, 2011
Best answer: One way to start this conversation is by trying to really get exactly what his preferences are and, even more importantly, why. Tell him that you guys really need to work this out but first you want to make sure you really understand his point of view. Ask him, if he got be in charge of the social schedule for your family, what would it look like? why would that be better (for him) than what you have now? similarly, what is the most important part of going out for him? For each thing that he says, reflect back what you think you heard and ask him if you got it right. When you think you have everything, ask him if there is anything else that you should know to help you understand. The key here is to be curious, non-defensive and to reflect everything back to make sure you got it right. No opinions of your own, no problem-solving, no judgement - you just want to understand his view of the situation at this stage.
Step 2 is to ask him to do the same for you - let you tell him what you would like and why it is important, and ask him to reflect back and otherwise just listen and be curious. Don't rush - this may all you do at the first try and come back to the question later.
Step 3 is brainstorming - try to get a bunch of different ideas on table. More ideas are better - they don't have to be good ideas. For example, making a clone of yourself is a good idea but not practical but it might make you think about ways that you could with someone who isn't you.
Step 4 - cross out ideas which are unacceptable, start to blend, merge, fix out what might work.
Step 5 - make an agreement to try out - including a plan for checking in and adjusting or abandoning the plan after you have tried it for a bit.
This is all communication 101 stuff - if you like the idea, your therapist can coach you on how to do it well.
posted by metahawk at 6:24 PM on September 9, 2011
Step 2 is to ask him to do the same for you - let you tell him what you would like and why it is important, and ask him to reflect back and otherwise just listen and be curious. Don't rush - this may all you do at the first try and come back to the question later.
Step 3 is brainstorming - try to get a bunch of different ideas on table. More ideas are better - they don't have to be good ideas. For example, making a clone of yourself is a good idea but not practical but it might make you think about ways that you could with someone who isn't you.
Step 4 - cross out ideas which are unacceptable, start to blend, merge, fix out what might work.
Step 5 - make an agreement to try out - including a plan for checking in and adjusting or abandoning the plan after you have tried it for a bit.
This is all communication 101 stuff - if you like the idea, your therapist can coach you on how to do it well.
posted by metahawk at 6:24 PM on September 9, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks for the continued responses to my questions, guys. I was incommunicado for the weekend but now I'm back and can let you know how helpful you have all been!
bilabial, I think you're definitely onto something with the idea of going out for shorter periods of time, as are Bardophile and jeather - it's so true that when I stay out for a longer time, or later at night, the rest of my life and work suffer and I feel drained and behind with everything. So framing the discussion in this way will be very useful.
davejay, my boyfriend has not specifically said that he thinks badly of me, so you're right, there's definitely a possibility I'm projecting. It's the way he says, "Well, personally, *I* feel like I'm not living my life right if I don't take the opportunity to socialise and have new experiences whenever I can" - the tone makes it feel like a judgement. But this is symptomatic of a bigger issue: we both have a tendency to read too much into one another's tone and to respond too strongly to one another's emotions. We've discussed this, we know it's a problem, and we're working on it together and separately. Asking this question is part of that, I suppose.
metahawk, thanks for laying out the steps - I think on some level I know that this is how good communication works, I just always seem to second-guess myself when I'm thinking about me personally, and not in the abstract.
posted by guessthis at 2:00 AM on September 12, 2011
bilabial, I think you're definitely onto something with the idea of going out for shorter periods of time, as are Bardophile and jeather - it's so true that when I stay out for a longer time, or later at night, the rest of my life and work suffer and I feel drained and behind with everything. So framing the discussion in this way will be very useful.
davejay, my boyfriend has not specifically said that he thinks badly of me, so you're right, there's definitely a possibility I'm projecting. It's the way he says, "Well, personally, *I* feel like I'm not living my life right if I don't take the opportunity to socialise and have new experiences whenever I can" - the tone makes it feel like a judgement. But this is symptomatic of a bigger issue: we both have a tendency to read too much into one another's tone and to respond too strongly to one another's emotions. We've discussed this, we know it's a problem, and we're working on it together and separately. Asking this question is part of that, I suppose.
metahawk, thanks for laying out the steps - I think on some level I know that this is how good communication works, I just always seem to second-guess myself when I'm thinking about me personally, and not in the abstract.
posted by guessthis at 2:00 AM on September 12, 2011
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Similarly, talk about what you feel is an appropriate night out that you'd be comfortable with. How late would you want to stay out? Is the involvement of alcohol a factor? (Never, once a week, or stop at 9pm, etc...)
If you can come up with the constraints that you are comfortable with, you can possibly still participate in spontaneous invitations while still maintaining a sense of planning over what you can control beforehand. You don't have to argue when the invitation comes up, you will both alraedy have an idea of what the answer will be. Just a thought.
posted by like_neon at 5:50 AM on September 9, 2011