What are the rules when there are no rules?
September 2, 2011 8:23 AM Subscribe
Did I do a bad thing and ruin a good thing or be assertive and stand up for myself? Either way, what's the best way to handle things now?
So I had a very nice date last week with a man I met on an online dating service. We've had a couple of low key dates prior but this was our first big deal date. This came right after a totally disastrous "relationship" with a previous guy who was all hot and heavy and really into me and then stopped calling and turned our last two dates into long conversations about how things would never go any further than they were right then, how he was a terrible boyfriend and how he really wasn't sure if he could ever love anyone, but certainly not me. (some of this was implied). Anyway I broke up with him because he made me feel bad about myself and met current guy one week later.
Current Guy has been really nice and we had an awesome date last week and he even asked me out for both Friday and Saturday of this weekend and he texted me Saturday to say he had a nice time.
And then - radio silence. Cut to Thursday night. As this is Labor Day weekend, all kinds of fun stuff is happening in town and I've heard nothing in terms of firm plans from this guy - just "we'll get together" the last time I saw him. Finally at 10pm on Thursday night (a night that included my 5th flat tire in as many weeks), I broke down and called a friend and made plans with him.
Of course, I get to work this morning and at 10am get a happy phone call (which I didn't answer) from Current Guy wanting to firm up our plans for tonight and tomorrow. So - did I jump the gun because I've had such a shitty week and because I've been burned in the past? Or is it reasonable that when you have vague plans to expect that you will have firmed them up prior to the day of? And now that I've made the other plans, which I'm not going to break because that really would be shitty, what do I say to Current Guy when I call him back that doesn't make it sound like I'm some sort of "Rules" girl but does also make it pretty clear that I really don't know him and some people don't follow through and I didn't want to sit at home alone while there was lots of fun going on.
I'm really glad he called and I'd like to keep seeing him but is unreasonable to think he should have called before today?
So I had a very nice date last week with a man I met on an online dating service. We've had a couple of low key dates prior but this was our first big deal date. This came right after a totally disastrous "relationship" with a previous guy who was all hot and heavy and really into me and then stopped calling and turned our last two dates into long conversations about how things would never go any further than they were right then, how he was a terrible boyfriend and how he really wasn't sure if he could ever love anyone, but certainly not me. (some of this was implied). Anyway I broke up with him because he made me feel bad about myself and met current guy one week later.
Current Guy has been really nice and we had an awesome date last week and he even asked me out for both Friday and Saturday of this weekend and he texted me Saturday to say he had a nice time.
And then - radio silence. Cut to Thursday night. As this is Labor Day weekend, all kinds of fun stuff is happening in town and I've heard nothing in terms of firm plans from this guy - just "we'll get together" the last time I saw him. Finally at 10pm on Thursday night (a night that included my 5th flat tire in as many weeks), I broke down and called a friend and made plans with him.
Of course, I get to work this morning and at 10am get a happy phone call (which I didn't answer) from Current Guy wanting to firm up our plans for tonight and tomorrow. So - did I jump the gun because I've had such a shitty week and because I've been burned in the past? Or is it reasonable that when you have vague plans to expect that you will have firmed them up prior to the day of? And now that I've made the other plans, which I'm not going to break because that really would be shitty, what do I say to Current Guy when I call him back that doesn't make it sound like I'm some sort of "Rules" girl but does also make it pretty clear that I really don't know him and some people don't follow through and I didn't want to sit at home alone while there was lots of fun going on.
I'm really glad he called and I'd like to keep seeing him but is unreasonable to think he should have called before today?
You're stressed out and vastly overthinking this. Neither of you did anything wrong. Tell him, "I'm so sorry, I already have plans for X day. Let's do Y on Z day." If anything, it'll motivate him to set plans firmly ahead of time in the future.
posted by oinopaponton at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by oinopaponton at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
Did you contact him during the week about making plans and he just didn't respond? Or was it that both of you dropped the ball on this one? If the former, I think you're totally off the hook--it's pretty unreasonable to expect an adult you don't know well to leave her weekend plans totally up in the air until Friday morning when she asked for clarification earlier in the week. If the latter, make a note to follow up sooner next time--he may have thought his "let's get together next Friday" was enough planning.
Either way, I'd say something like, "I have plans for tonight, but I'm available Sunday at blah-o'clock if you'd like to get together and do [specific thing]--interested?"
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2011
Either way, I'd say something like, "I have plans for tonight, but I'm available Sunday at blah-o'clock if you'd like to get together and do [specific thing]--interested?"
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2011
maybe he liked you so much that he thought it didn't matter what you guys were doing, as long as you were doing it together.
did you text him this week at all?
while i can understand not breaking plans with your friend, but you accepted dates with him, then made plans with your friend, and now you're breaking those dates. this isn't a case of breaking plans with a friend because you got a date after you made those plans.
posted by nadawi at 8:34 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
did you text him this week at all?
while i can understand not breaking plans with your friend, but you accepted dates with him, then made plans with your friend, and now you're breaking those dates. this isn't a case of breaking plans with a friend because you got a date after you made those plans.
posted by nadawi at 8:34 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you didn't just pick up the phone and call him, then you are some sort of "Rules" girl.
posted by sageleaf at 8:34 AM on September 2, 2011 [40 favorites]
posted by sageleaf at 8:34 AM on September 2, 2011 [40 favorites]
Did you text or call him anytime this week to ask about plans for Labor Day, and he didn't reply? Because if that's what happened, yeah, he should have called before today.
But if you didn't try to follow up with him at least once before making plans with your friend, then I think you jumped the gun.
posted by flex at 8:36 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
But if you didn't try to follow up with him at least once before making plans with your friend, then I think you jumped the gun.
posted by flex at 8:36 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you needed to confirm the plans were on, you were obligated to check in with him before making new plans with another party. He is not more obligated to call than you are. You were absolutely wrong to make plans with this friend, and will be totally in the wrong to cancel with the new guy. Sort this with your friend and stick to the plans you already made.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:36 AM on September 2, 2011 [30 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 8:36 AM on September 2, 2011 [30 favorites]
is unreasonable to think he should have called before today?
Who cares? That's the wrong question. Next time you wander what's up, don't sit there wringing your hands - pick up the damn phone and call him.
posted by fritley at 8:39 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
Who cares? That's the wrong question. Next time you wander what's up, don't sit there wringing your hands - pick up the damn phone and call him.
posted by fritley at 8:39 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
If you needed to confirm the plans were on, you were obligated to check in with him before making new plans with another party. He is not more obligated to call than you are. You were absolutely wrong to make plans with this friend, and will be totally in the wrong to cancel with the new guy. Sort this with your friend and stick to the plans you already made.
I totally agree.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:40 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
I totally agree.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:40 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Finally at 10pm on Thursday night (a night that included my 5th flat tire in as many weeks), I broke down and called a friend and made plans with him.
Was there a time when you called Current Guy and said "hey fun weekend coming up, let's firm up plans"? Because that's assertive, and a good thing. Waiting for him to call and then angrily making other plans when he doesn't call isn't assertive at all.
posted by headnsouth at 8:40 AM on September 2, 2011 [17 favorites]
Was there a time when you called Current Guy and said "hey fun weekend coming up, let's firm up plans"? Because that's assertive, and a good thing. Waiting for him to call and then angrily making other plans when he doesn't call isn't assertive at all.
posted by headnsouth at 8:40 AM on September 2, 2011 [17 favorites]
Or is it reasonable that when you have vague plans to expect that you will have firmed them up prior to the day of?
Well it's certainly not unreasonable to want to know earlier than that what exactly the plans are, and get some indication that they haven't been canceled. But some people do tend to make vague plans and wait until the last second to figure out the details, and it doesn't look like you gave him any indication that you wanted to know more details ahead of time. Since you just met this guy it's probably just a case of different expectations. As others have said you definitely should have contacted him to figure out if he was still planning on meeting you this weekend before you made unbreakable alternate plans. He didn't know that he was making you think the date wasn't going to happen but you did know that you were unalterably canceling the date without telling him.
I'm really glad he called and I'd like to keep seeing him but is unreasonable to think he should have called before today?
If you can't figure out a way to meet him this weekend I would suggest saying that you unfortunately made other plans that you can't break, but that you would like to meet him again on [particular time] for [particular activity]. He may understandably be miffed that you made other plans, but at least he won't think you are completely blowing him off because you are no longer interested. Also I would suggest more directly communicating the kinds of actions you are expecting from him rather than trying to guess why he's doing what he's doing and what that means.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:43 AM on September 2, 2011
Well it's certainly not unreasonable to want to know earlier than that what exactly the plans are, and get some indication that they haven't been canceled. But some people do tend to make vague plans and wait until the last second to figure out the details, and it doesn't look like you gave him any indication that you wanted to know more details ahead of time. Since you just met this guy it's probably just a case of different expectations. As others have said you definitely should have contacted him to figure out if he was still planning on meeting you this weekend before you made unbreakable alternate plans. He didn't know that he was making you think the date wasn't going to happen but you did know that you were unalterably canceling the date without telling him.
I'm really glad he called and I'd like to keep seeing him but is unreasonable to think he should have called before today?
If you can't figure out a way to meet him this weekend I would suggest saying that you unfortunately made other plans that you can't break, but that you would like to meet him again on [particular time] for [particular activity]. He may understandably be miffed that you made other plans, but at least he won't think you are completely blowing him off because you are no longer interested. Also I would suggest more directly communicating the kinds of actions you are expecting from him rather than trying to guess why he's doing what he's doing and what that means.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:43 AM on September 2, 2011
Did I do a bad thing and ruin a good thing or be assertive and stand up for myself?
I wouldn't describe your behavior as "assertive." Assertive would have been calling him to figure out the plan, maybe even coming up with a more firm plan yourself. This seems more like passive-aggressive to me.
posted by grouse at 8:49 AM on September 2, 2011 [23 favorites]
I wouldn't describe your behavior as "assertive." Assertive would have been calling him to figure out the plan, maybe even coming up with a more firm plan yourself. This seems more like passive-aggressive to me.
posted by grouse at 8:49 AM on September 2, 2011 [23 favorites]
Did I jump the gun because I've had such a shitty week and because I've been burned in the past?
Yes.
Or is it reasonable that when you have vague plans to expect that you will have firmed them up prior to the day of?
It's reasonable but not required. You and this guy had plans for tonight. The fact that it wasn't clear what they were - this was not a big factor for him. It could be that the two of you just work differently this way. That's not the end of the world but it's something to be aware of.
And now that I've made the other plans, which I'm not going to break because that really would be shitty, what do I say to Current Guy when I call him back that doesn't make it sound like I'm some sort of "Rules" girl but does also make it pretty clear that I really don't know him and some people don't follow through and I didn't want to sit at home alone while there was lots of fun going on.
Well...here's the thing.
You already had plans, you know? You broke them and made other plans without telling him. I don't think there's really a way to dress that up. Even if you explain to him that some people don't follow through, the fact is that you never called him to give him that chance, you never texted, e-mailed, whatever. You might have a leg to stand on if you'd called him midweek to ask him what was going on and had never heard back.
What I'd do in this situation, if I weren't able to reschedule with the other friend, is maybe ask this guy if he wants to hang out with you and some other folks, and include your other friend in it. That way, everyone wins.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yes.
Or is it reasonable that when you have vague plans to expect that you will have firmed them up prior to the day of?
It's reasonable but not required. You and this guy had plans for tonight. The fact that it wasn't clear what they were - this was not a big factor for him. It could be that the two of you just work differently this way. That's not the end of the world but it's something to be aware of.
And now that I've made the other plans, which I'm not going to break because that really would be shitty, what do I say to Current Guy when I call him back that doesn't make it sound like I'm some sort of "Rules" girl but does also make it pretty clear that I really don't know him and some people don't follow through and I didn't want to sit at home alone while there was lots of fun going on.
Well...here's the thing.
You already had plans, you know? You broke them and made other plans without telling him. I don't think there's really a way to dress that up. Even if you explain to him that some people don't follow through, the fact is that you never called him to give him that chance, you never texted, e-mailed, whatever. You might have a leg to stand on if you'd called him midweek to ask him what was going on and had never heard back.
What I'd do in this situation, if I weren't able to reschedule with the other friend, is maybe ask this guy if he wants to hang out with you and some other folks, and include your other friend in it. That way, everyone wins.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
I kind of DISAGREE with others on here who are saying you should have followed up and confirmed plans for Fri and Sat yourself. He initiated the plans and I think it was his job to confirm BEFORE Friday morning. This is more just on principal of not doing things last minute. But it's pretty standard practice that if at the beginning of the week a guy texts you saying let's do something on Fri and Sat, it's his job to follow up later in the week to confirm. When he doesn't follow up, you're left wondering if things are still on, whether he just flaked, etc. Now...yes...you could have called during the week and followed up yourself which I'm sure would have been totally cool and cleared things up. But you decided to wait which I don't see as you doing anything wrong. At the end of the day, if you really like the guy I would do your best to at least get together with him on one of the days if not both as planned. Can you cancel with your friend? Maybe go out with this guy tonight, and if it goes well you can also go out as planned tomorrow night. Or if you don't wanna break your plans with your friend, then go out with the friend on one night and the new guy on the other night. I'd say for now you could give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say, "well maybe things were already confirmed and I just misunderstood". However if this sort of thing continues to happen, then you know you're dealing with someone who in my opinion...is sort of flaky or wishy washy, and is playing games. Good luck.
posted by ljs30 at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ljs30 at 8:53 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
he even asked me out for both Friday and Saturday of this weekend
If you said yes, it sounds like this was probably confirmation enough for him that you two would be doing something tonight. It wasn't, however, for you. It would have been a good idea for him to call yesterday and confirm plans, but it sounds like you'd definitely agreed to do something. Chalk it up to a miscommunication, apologize for double-booking yourself Friday, and go out with him on Saturday.
Here's how to be assertive in this sort of situation: if he doesn't call to firm up date plans, you call him. Making plans with someone else because he missed your personal deadline to contact you is passive-aggressive. Sure, you can't sit around with an empty schedule waiting for him to call. But you're not going to take control of your dating life if you simply wait for a guy who controls the dates the way you like.
pretty clear that I really don't know him
Well, you just met. This isn't a case of a guy being dealbreakery different, just your communication styles didn't match up this one time. The way to get to know someone is to spend time with him and talk to him, and down the line that will include sorting out personal differences.
I bet this is just a hiccup, and you guys are fine. But if you want something, ask for it.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
If you said yes, it sounds like this was probably confirmation enough for him that you two would be doing something tonight. It wasn't, however, for you. It would have been a good idea for him to call yesterday and confirm plans, but it sounds like you'd definitely agreed to do something. Chalk it up to a miscommunication, apologize for double-booking yourself Friday, and go out with him on Saturday.
Here's how to be assertive in this sort of situation: if he doesn't call to firm up date plans, you call him. Making plans with someone else because he missed your personal deadline to contact you is passive-aggressive. Sure, you can't sit around with an empty schedule waiting for him to call. But you're not going to take control of your dating life if you simply wait for a guy who controls the dates the way you like.
pretty clear that I really don't know him
Well, you just met. This isn't a case of a guy being dealbreakery different, just your communication styles didn't match up this one time. The way to get to know someone is to spend time with him and talk to him, and down the line that will include sorting out personal differences.
I bet this is just a hiccup, and you guys are fine. But if you want something, ask for it.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
If I asked someone out for Friday and Saturday night and he said yes, I'd feel entirely comfortable thinking that we had plans for Friday and Saturday night. I probably would have made more specific plans (time to meet, whether we were having dinner or a movie or whatever) to make sure we both knew when to be ready, but I don't see it as "radio silence" unless you attempted to contact him and he didn't respond.
posted by xingcat at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by xingcat at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I disagree with most people in this thread. Maybe I just have a sensitivity to this because I grew up in a place where nobody ever acted like a flake, and I now live in a place where almost everyone does.
I have found, where I live, that when someone makes vague plans with you, 99.99% of the time, those plans don't end up happening. If someone RSVPs "maybe," 99.99% of the time, they don't show up.
I used to try what people in this thread are suggesting, to keep trying to firm up the plans with them, but it seems to be usually a waste of time.
So, unless I want to walk around irritated my whole life, I have to assume that when someone here makes vague plans with me, it's not an actual attempt to make plans but just a gesture of goodwill and friendliness. And I operate as if the person had never said anything, when I'm making my schedule. This has worked out extremely well.
A good side effect is -- when you put a lot of effort into nailing down flaky people to firm plans, you end up with a lot of flaky people in your life. When you don't put in that effort, you end up with the people who don't behave that way.
I think you did exactly the right thing. I would tell him, "Current guy! I didn't hear from you at all this week to make real plans, so I thought you had changed your mind about wanted to hang out. So, I made other plans for the weekend, but I'd love to hang out next week if you want."
posted by Ashley801 at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [23 favorites]
I have found, where I live, that when someone makes vague plans with you, 99.99% of the time, those plans don't end up happening. If someone RSVPs "maybe," 99.99% of the time, they don't show up.
I used to try what people in this thread are suggesting, to keep trying to firm up the plans with them, but it seems to be usually a waste of time.
So, unless I want to walk around irritated my whole life, I have to assume that when someone here makes vague plans with me, it's not an actual attempt to make plans but just a gesture of goodwill and friendliness. And I operate as if the person had never said anything, when I'm making my schedule. This has worked out extremely well.
A good side effect is -- when you put a lot of effort into nailing down flaky people to firm plans, you end up with a lot of flaky people in your life. When you don't put in that effort, you end up with the people who don't behave that way.
I think you did exactly the right thing. I would tell him, "Current guy! I didn't hear from you at all this week to make real plans, so I thought you had changed your mind about wanted to hang out. So, I made other plans for the weekend, but I'd love to hang out next week if you want."
posted by Ashley801 at 8:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [23 favorites]
Moving forward, it may be useful for you to have a conversation about planning styles/expectations. (Just be sure to talk about it when neither of you are the least bit upset about it!) My partner and I had to do this within the first few months of our dating, because our approach to planning was different enough that it resulted in a few touchy situations -- he treated vague plans (like in the situation you describe) as not-really-plans-at-all until something specific was settled on, while I treated vague plans as the beginning of actually getting something settled.
Once we realized that we were hearing/interpreting statements like "let's think about doing something this Thursday" slightly differently, we started to find a way to communicate a little more clearly with each other, because it was valuable to both of us to avoid generating more conflict around this point than was necessary.
posted by scody at 9:02 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
Once we realized that we were hearing/interpreting statements like "let's think about doing something this Thursday" slightly differently, we started to find a way to communicate a little more clearly with each other, because it was valuable to both of us to avoid generating more conflict around this point than was necessary.
posted by scody at 9:02 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
I think this depends completely on whether you made any attempt to contact him throughout the week. If you did, and he didn't respond, then you definitely did the right thing. He shouldn't expect you to wait on making plans when he isn't answering you. However, if you were also silent all week, then you should have tried to contact him. It's also a but unreasonable for him to wait until the day-of to firm up your plans, so I think either way, you'll be fine.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:06 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by DoubleLune at 9:06 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Do you have plans for the entire weekend with your friend, or could you simply tell Current Guy, "Hey, I made plans with friend for this day because I wasn't sure what was going on, but I could hang with your this other day this weekend. And btw, I'm really sorry this happened. Weren't you telling me about awesome thing happening soon? I'd really like to check that out with you, too."
I think one of the key things here is when you next talk to him, set up a firm plan for seeing him and seeing him again soon. And don't discount the possibility that even though he asked you about plans for the weekend that maybe he was leaving it in your court to contact him and he was waiting by the phone as anxiously and nail-bitingly as you were until he broke down to call you after not hearing from you.
But whatever you do, there's no need to play a who-should-have-called-whom game on this. It's just not necessary.
posted by zizzle at 9:07 AM on September 2, 2011
I think one of the key things here is when you next talk to him, set up a firm plan for seeing him and seeing him again soon. And don't discount the possibility that even though he asked you about plans for the weekend that maybe he was leaving it in your court to contact him and he was waiting by the phone as anxiously and nail-bitingly as you were until he broke down to call you after not hearing from you.
But whatever you do, there's no need to play a who-should-have-called-whom game on this. It's just not necessary.
posted by zizzle at 9:07 AM on September 2, 2011
I think you should tell him that it turns out you have plans with your friend on X night but would he like to hang out on Y night? Or, if it seems appropriate, clear it with your friend and invite him along?
Not knowing what my plans will be at the last minute drives me nuts so I tend to either ask early, or make plans that can incorporate additional people later.
posted by mlle valentine at 9:08 AM on September 2, 2011
Not knowing what my plans will be at the last minute drives me nuts so I tend to either ask early, or make plans that can incorporate additional people later.
posted by mlle valentine at 9:08 AM on September 2, 2011
I agree with DarlingBri and TPS. I'm a dude, if that matters at all in your calculus, and I've gotta say, if I was Current Guy and you called tonight to tell me about these other-plans-with-friends, I would feel like you bailed on me. Maybe not fair, but just to be honest, that's how I would take it.
I think you need to reconsider your commitment that "now that I've made the other plans, which I'm not going to break because that really would be shitty" - because what you've really done is make 2 sets of contradictory plans, which is ALREADY shitty; now you need to minimize the shittiness going forward. You should talk to your friend and explain the situation and see if you can regroup with him later in favor of carrying out your plans with Current Guy. If he is a good friend, he'll understand; the first several dates between a couple is a dicey time; people are paying super-lots of attention to every little thing, and you need to kind of focus on the budding relationship to prevent it from going off the rails for some dumb reason.
If I were in your friend's shoes, I would totally understand this and would definitely shrug it off as no big deal (and moreover, the right thing to do) if you bailed on me and went out with Current Guy. If your relationship with Current Guy ends up going anywhere, everyone can get together and laugh about it later. If not - ah, well, you had to try.
posted by rkent at 9:09 AM on September 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
I think you need to reconsider your commitment that "now that I've made the other plans, which I'm not going to break because that really would be shitty" - because what you've really done is make 2 sets of contradictory plans, which is ALREADY shitty; now you need to minimize the shittiness going forward. You should talk to your friend and explain the situation and see if you can regroup with him later in favor of carrying out your plans with Current Guy. If he is a good friend, he'll understand; the first several dates between a couple is a dicey time; people are paying super-lots of attention to every little thing, and you need to kind of focus on the budding relationship to prevent it from going off the rails for some dumb reason.
If I were in your friend's shoes, I would totally understand this and would definitely shrug it off as no big deal (and moreover, the right thing to do) if you bailed on me and went out with Current Guy. If your relationship with Current Guy ends up going anywhere, everyone can get together and laugh about it later. If not - ah, well, you had to try.
posted by rkent at 9:09 AM on September 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
I think you did the wrong thing, sorry. If you agreed to plans with this guy, making plans with someone else was weird.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, not to sound all rules-y, but you receive the treatment you demand, so I think you're fine to expect plans to be "firmed up" sooner than the Day Of. Otherwise, you're busy, your time is in demand, you have lots of friends, etc. No guy who is truly interested in you is going to give up on you for this. Just make it clear that you did not intend to flake on him, but you are busy and you need firmer plans because you can't wait around. (And you can always call him for a firm-up, as in, "Hey, my friend asked me to do something on Saturday, but I thought we had plans? Let me know. I want to see you, but if we don't have plans, I need to go ahead with something else.")
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:10 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:10 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm really glad he called and I'd like to keep seeing him but is unreasonable to think he should have called before today?
Doesn't matter what I or anyone else in this thread thinks. CALL HIM AND TALK TO HIM. For some reason you seem reluctant to do that and it's not clear why. What's up with that? Think about it, you don't talk to him before making plans that conflict with plans you've already made with him and when he does call, you don't pick up and now you're on the internet asking random strangers. You're refusing to talk to the only other person that matters in this situation.
You two seem to like each other. So talk to each other and work this out. Ya'll obviously have different communication styles on this subject, so you might as well try and clear it up now before more situations spiral into chaos.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on September 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
Doesn't matter what I or anyone else in this thread thinks. CALL HIM AND TALK TO HIM. For some reason you seem reluctant to do that and it's not clear why. What's up with that? Think about it, you don't talk to him before making plans that conflict with plans you've already made with him and when he does call, you don't pick up and now you're on the internet asking random strangers. You're refusing to talk to the only other person that matters in this situation.
You two seem to like each other. So talk to each other and work this out. Ya'll obviously have different communication styles on this subject, so you might as well try and clear it up now before more situations spiral into chaos.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on September 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
Are your plans with Other Friend for Friday night? Saturday? What did you agree to do with Dating Guy? I think a casual, let's see each other next Saturday discussion doesn't require you to keep the entire day free.
I also don't think it is necessarily wrong to bail on Other Friend; at the very least, you can explain this situation and ask him if he would mind if you cancelled. If you do not often do this, and if he is not generally sensitive to this, anyhow.
posted by jeather at 9:15 AM on September 2, 2011
I also don't think it is necessarily wrong to bail on Other Friend; at the very least, you can explain this situation and ask him if he would mind if you cancelled. If you do not often do this, and if he is not generally sensitive to this, anyhow.
posted by jeather at 9:15 AM on September 2, 2011
Scody- my husband and I had the same conversation when we started going out!
I made my needs clear for the first time in my romantic life, he respected that, and treated (treats) me really well even though he still had a tendency to double-book with friends at that time. So yeah, I have to repeat myself that we get the treatment we ask for.
OP, don't be afraid to ask for what you want! It sounds like you are already a gentle compromiser, and you wouldn't take advantage of the ability to ask for these things.
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
I made my needs clear for the first time in my romantic life, he respected that, and treated (treats) me really well even though he still had a tendency to double-book with friends at that time. So yeah, I have to repeat myself that we get the treatment we ask for.
OP, don't be afraid to ask for what you want! It sounds like you are already a gentle compromiser, and you wouldn't take advantage of the ability to ask for these things.
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
This is one of those things that happens when two people don't really trust or know each other.
In these situations of uncertainty, I will usually make tentative plans with a friend who's in the know, and then see what happens. I agree with not having called him to check if plans were still on - if the guy expressed interest in plans for the next weekend, I would like for him to be the one to get in touch to confirm those plans.
The difficulty with that is that you don't know when the person will call, if indeed they call.
I think you jumped the gun, because of your previous crazy-date "relationship" (been there, done that!) and if you really are interested in dating this person, you should cancel with your friend and go see what unfolds with the guy who wants to see you both Friday and Saturday.
You can make it up to your friend, there's nothing wrong with cancelling once in a while, as long as you are honest and can make it up. You may not get a chance to make it up with the new guy.
He may think you are just too busy and not interested.
Just weigh both situations: which friendship is more established and which person knows you best, thus is likely to be more understanding? Take care of the more tenuous but promising romantic possiblity.
posted by Locochona at 9:23 AM on September 2, 2011
In these situations of uncertainty, I will usually make tentative plans with a friend who's in the know, and then see what happens. I agree with not having called him to check if plans were still on - if the guy expressed interest in plans for the next weekend, I would like for him to be the one to get in touch to confirm those plans.
The difficulty with that is that you don't know when the person will call, if indeed they call.
I think you jumped the gun, because of your previous crazy-date "relationship" (been there, done that!) and if you really are interested in dating this person, you should cancel with your friend and go see what unfolds with the guy who wants to see you both Friday and Saturday.
You can make it up to your friend, there's nothing wrong with cancelling once in a while, as long as you are honest and can make it up. You may not get a chance to make it up with the new guy.
He may think you are just too busy and not interested.
Just weigh both situations: which friendship is more established and which person knows you best, thus is likely to be more understanding? Take care of the more tenuous but promising romantic possiblity.
posted by Locochona at 9:23 AM on September 2, 2011
If I have the story straight: New Guy asked you out for Friday AND Saturday and you made Saturday plans with Friend.
Why can't you do all of these plans?
Call New Guy and arrange a nice dinner (or whatever) on Friday night. Say that you'll firm up Saturday plans when you see each other. When you do see each other, explain that you really want to do XYZ with Friend on Saturday, which begins at 5:00 p.m., and ask if New Guy wouldn't mind getting together at a different time for a late lunch.
I think it's too early for New Guy to have full access to all of your Friday night AND all of your Saturday night. If anything, in my opinion, it's more normal to have shorter daylight dates at this point.
posted by cranberrymonger at 9:45 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Why can't you do all of these plans?
Call New Guy and arrange a nice dinner (or whatever) on Friday night. Say that you'll firm up Saturday plans when you see each other. When you do see each other, explain that you really want to do XYZ with Friend on Saturday, which begins at 5:00 p.m., and ask if New Guy wouldn't mind getting together at a different time for a late lunch.
I think it's too early for New Guy to have full access to all of your Friday night AND all of your Saturday night. If anything, in my opinion, it's more normal to have shorter daylight dates at this point.
posted by cranberrymonger at 9:45 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Hey. Girl here. Why can't you just be honest? As in, call him and say, "I'd love to hang out. I confess when I didn't hear from you I thought maybe your plans had changed and said yes to a friend who wanted to hang out. I guess I should have called you to clarify -- not sure why that didn't occur to me. Anyway, I'm totally amped to hang out but I wonder if we could push our plans one day later because I'm a dork who double-scheduled. OR, you could totally come along on Friday, my friends are a fun group and I'm sure we'd all have a good time."
posted by artemisia at 9:58 AM on September 2, 2011 [21 favorites]
posted by artemisia at 9:58 AM on September 2, 2011 [21 favorites]
I would ABSOLUTELY have thought New Guy was going to flake, too! No texts all week? No phone calls? No IM's or quick email... Yep. I would have guessed I was being flakes on too if this was behavior from some random-but-nice internet dude, which is exactly what New Guy is at this point.
Anyone telling you you jumped the gun would also be telling you that should have made back-up plans if your question on Tuesday had been "Guy I met online made plans and then didn't show all weekend! How can I avoid this in the future?" So, HA!
Yes he should have called sooner. Yes he should not have access to your whole weekend.
Follow the good scripts above to keep plans with your friend and only see New Guy for one night, not two. You are doing this EXACTLY right!
posted by jbenben at 10:00 AM on September 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
Anyone telling you you jumped the gun would also be telling you that should have made back-up plans if your question on Tuesday had been "Guy I met online made plans and then didn't show all weekend! How can I avoid this in the future?" So, HA!
Yes he should have called sooner. Yes he should not have access to your whole weekend.
Follow the good scripts above to keep plans with your friend and only see New Guy for one night, not two. You are doing this EXACTLY right!
posted by jbenben at 10:00 AM on September 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
You hardly know this guy. Maybe he's uber laid back. Maybe he's trying to seem cool and not-over-eager. Maybe he took the fact you you didn't call to make plans as a sign of disinterest (and he'll almost definitely take your new plans as one). The only way to tell is to quit being so nervous and just talk to him, rather than sitting around and acting passive.
Well, not to sound all rules-y, but you receive the treatment you demand, so I think you're fine to expect plans to be "firmed up" sooner than the Day Of. Otherwise, you're busy, your time is in demand, you have lots of friends, etc. No guy who is truly interested in you is going to give up on you for this.
That's . . . actually extremely rulesy. It's fine if you only want to be friends with or date people who are hella into planning and "proving" their affection for you through that, but if you care about other points of compatibility, it makes sense to just pick up your damned phone and call someone to confirm plans if you're not sure.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:04 AM on September 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
Well, not to sound all rules-y, but you receive the treatment you demand, so I think you're fine to expect plans to be "firmed up" sooner than the Day Of. Otherwise, you're busy, your time is in demand, you have lots of friends, etc. No guy who is truly interested in you is going to give up on you for this.
That's . . . actually extremely rulesy. It's fine if you only want to be friends with or date people who are hella into planning and "proving" their affection for you through that, but if you care about other points of compatibility, it makes sense to just pick up your damned phone and call someone to confirm plans if you're not sure.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:04 AM on September 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
I kind of agree with Ashley801's perspective that if a week goes by without plans being firmed up, it's understandable that you would consider those plans to be iffy at best. I've certainly had my share of flaky friends who say "let's do X on day Y" and immediately forget about it—it's a fairly frequent subject here on AskMe.
But I also believe that if you want to firm up plans, you are just as capable of initiating that process as the guy is.
posted by adamrice at 10:06 AM on September 2, 2011
But I also believe that if you want to firm up plans, you are just as capable of initiating that process as the guy is.
posted by adamrice at 10:06 AM on September 2, 2011
Anyone telling you you jumped the gun would also be telling you that should have made back-up plans if your question on Tuesday had been "Guy I met online made plans and then didn't show all weekend! How can I avoid this in the future?" So, HA!
I guess I can speak only for myself, but no. I would have said "why didn't you call him earlier?" Which is still what I'm saying.
posted by grouse at 10:07 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
I guess I can speak only for myself, but no. I would have said "why didn't you call him earlier?" Which is still what I'm saying.
posted by grouse at 10:07 AM on September 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
I agree with ashley801 and jenbenben but I would also hasten to add that all of these things in the beginning (crossed communication wires etc) are often the stuff that trips you up later on. He is laissez faire (sp?) And you aren't, wrt plans at least. Maybe other people can make these things work through explicit conversations about planning styles and communication frequency needs, but I've never been able to... so actually maybe you should take their advice (and not mine) and see how it goes!
posted by bquarters at 10:10 AM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by bquarters at 10:10 AM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
You've had a few dates with this guy and he asked you out and you both specifically said you would do something Friday and Saturday. Then on Thursday, because all the details hadn't been ironed out, you made plans with someone else without telling him and without confirming whether you were still on?
I think you're the one being unreasonable, especially since you haven't discussed your communication expectations.
That's not really helpful, though.
You like this guy? You want to keep seeing him?
If I were him, and you told me you were flaking on our plans because you had plans now with some other guy, I'd be put off. That might even be it.
If, on the other hand, you followed through with our plans (your friend will understand--unless this involves expensive tickets to a once in a lifetime event or something), and at the same time you told me how you were feeling and what your expectations were moving forward about firming up details of plans and communicating more frequently and more in advance, that would be fine and I would totally respect that and do my best to work with it going forward.
posted by J. Wilson at 10:10 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think you're the one being unreasonable, especially since you haven't discussed your communication expectations.
That's not really helpful, though.
You like this guy? You want to keep seeing him?
If I were him, and you told me you were flaking on our plans because you had plans now with some other guy, I'd be put off. That might even be it.
If, on the other hand, you followed through with our plans (your friend will understand--unless this involves expensive tickets to a once in a lifetime event or something), and at the same time you told me how you were feeling and what your expectations were moving forward about firming up details of plans and communicating more frequently and more in advance, that would be fine and I would totally respect that and do my best to work with it going forward.
posted by J. Wilson at 10:10 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh and frankly, if you're the type to let people fuck you around, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with "the rules".[...] there are many ways to date and expecting firm plans and definite signs of interest is not horrible or crazy.
This is sort of what I was going to say. For all the stupidity of The Rules, it did make one or two good points for less naturally assertive people. One of those points was that you shouldn't be sitting by the phone waiting for your potential date to decide if he wants to see you, or leaving every day open in case he calls. You should have a life of your own, and be able to make plans for yourself. If someone you've been on only three dates with asks you out tentatively a week ahead of time and hasn't followed up to confirm the plans by the day before the weekend in question, I think it's normal to assume those plans are off. I don't think that's necessarily gender-specific, either. If the OP was a guy I'd think the same thing. To my mind, before you know each other well whoever initiates the plans is sort of in charge of them. It's not manipulative to let people you just started dating (or just started hanging out with as friends, for that matter) know that you prefer solid plans, and if they don't go to the effort to make those with you, they might not get to see you whenever they want. (But then, I'm a plan-things-in-advance type person...)
posted by DestinationUnknown at 10:29 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
This is sort of what I was going to say. For all the stupidity of The Rules, it did make one or two good points for less naturally assertive people. One of those points was that you shouldn't be sitting by the phone waiting for your potential date to decide if he wants to see you, or leaving every day open in case he calls. You should have a life of your own, and be able to make plans for yourself. If someone you've been on only three dates with asks you out tentatively a week ahead of time and hasn't followed up to confirm the plans by the day before the weekend in question, I think it's normal to assume those plans are off. I don't think that's necessarily gender-specific, either. If the OP was a guy I'd think the same thing. To my mind, before you know each other well whoever initiates the plans is sort of in charge of them. It's not manipulative to let people you just started dating (or just started hanging out with as friends, for that matter) know that you prefer solid plans, and if they don't go to the effort to make those with you, they might not get to see you whenever they want. (But then, I'm a plan-things-in-advance type person...)
posted by DestinationUnknown at 10:29 AM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Here's the thing. He asked whether, in principle, you would like to go out this Friday. You said yes. However, this is not the same as "making plans" with you.
Saying you were obligated to honour those plans could easily have resulted in the following scenario: you pencil in Friday and Saturday. By Wednesday, you haven't heard from him. You can't make any plans to do anything with other friends because you have an "obligation" to be on call during those 48 hours.
I used to have tremendous problems with manipulative people, and I learned that they usually tested me very early in their acquaintance with me. Making plans in this exact way was one of the most common patterns they would use to test me. It seems to be one of the classic dangerous corners. What I had to figure out was: maybe this person isn't a manipulator, but if they are, how do I make sure I fail this test so that manipulative people get screened out, but nonmanipulative people still get through?
There was also the issue that, like you, I don't like waiting until the very last minute to be told what the plans are, nor do I like being messed around by flakiness. Flaky or last-minute people with good intentions can still end up establishing a pattern of last-minuteness which can be nearly impossible to break. Talking to them about it never seems to make a difference. What does make a difference, I've found, is not cooperating with flakiness or last-minuteness. What you did was completely consistent with that, and it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. In fact, when I used to have huge problems with getting stood up and messed around, and I talked to people to try and figure out what to do about it, it was pretty well universally agreed that I brought it on myself because I DIDN'T do EXACTLY as you have done.
It would also have been perfectly reasonable for you to call him on Wednesday to sort this out. You can count me among those who think that that would have been most unlikely to get the result you wanted, because 99% of the time vague plans + late followup = no interest. The worst-case scenario is that he didn't intend to follow up at all but goes along with you because you put him on the spot. However, that's a pretty small risk, and one worth taking considering that his response would have been pretty revealing - whether he responded enthusiastically or still kept you waiting, for example.
Anyway, apparently he did want to see you, and you have made plans, so what's done is done. So what you can do now is, call him back. Say "Current Guy, ohnoes! When I didn't hear from you by last night, I thought you'd changed your mind about getting together, so I made plans! I do want to see you, Current Guy, and I'm free on Saturday at [time], but if that doesn't suit you maybe we could get together on Tuesday or Thursday evening?"
Call him back and tell him this now! Don't wait!
There is nothing wrong with you for recognizing ways in which you've been placed in a lower position in the past and tried to avoid that. I totally understand why you are sensitive to this kind of thing and why you feel it's so important for both of you to get it right. When I myself started to recognize the points at which relationships were starting to go wrong for me, and tried to talk about it, I found that I got relentless heaps of blame piled on me. First for "allowing" it to happen in the first place and "teaching" people the wrong ways to treat me. And then I got blamed just as harshly for deciding to do things differently and fly by instruments so as to avoid "teaching" people the wrong ways to treat me. I had to have the courage of my convictions over seemingly trivial social exchanges, and it was hard because as much as I got excoriated for being a "doormat" and "volunteering" to be abused and "bringing it on myself," I was then made out to be totally unreasonable, cold, unempathic and inflexible for not cooperating with the very things that had consistently gotten me victimized in the past. All I can say is that I stuck to my approach and it did work for me, and my life is now filled with respectful friendships.
posted by tel3path at 10:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [16 favorites]
Saying you were obligated to honour those plans could easily have resulted in the following scenario: you pencil in Friday and Saturday. By Wednesday, you haven't heard from him. You can't make any plans to do anything with other friends because you have an "obligation" to be on call during those 48 hours.
I used to have tremendous problems with manipulative people, and I learned that they usually tested me very early in their acquaintance with me. Making plans in this exact way was one of the most common patterns they would use to test me. It seems to be one of the classic dangerous corners. What I had to figure out was: maybe this person isn't a manipulator, but if they are, how do I make sure I fail this test so that manipulative people get screened out, but nonmanipulative people still get through?
There was also the issue that, like you, I don't like waiting until the very last minute to be told what the plans are, nor do I like being messed around by flakiness. Flaky or last-minute people with good intentions can still end up establishing a pattern of last-minuteness which can be nearly impossible to break. Talking to them about it never seems to make a difference. What does make a difference, I've found, is not cooperating with flakiness or last-minuteness. What you did was completely consistent with that, and it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. In fact, when I used to have huge problems with getting stood up and messed around, and I talked to people to try and figure out what to do about it, it was pretty well universally agreed that I brought it on myself because I DIDN'T do EXACTLY as you have done.
It would also have been perfectly reasonable for you to call him on Wednesday to sort this out. You can count me among those who think that that would have been most unlikely to get the result you wanted, because 99% of the time vague plans + late followup = no interest. The worst-case scenario is that he didn't intend to follow up at all but goes along with you because you put him on the spot. However, that's a pretty small risk, and one worth taking considering that his response would have been pretty revealing - whether he responded enthusiastically or still kept you waiting, for example.
Anyway, apparently he did want to see you, and you have made plans, so what's done is done. So what you can do now is, call him back. Say "Current Guy, ohnoes! When I didn't hear from you by last night, I thought you'd changed your mind about getting together, so I made plans! I do want to see you, Current Guy, and I'm free on Saturday at [time], but if that doesn't suit you maybe we could get together on Tuesday or Thursday evening?"
Call him back and tell him this now! Don't wait!
There is nothing wrong with you for recognizing ways in which you've been placed in a lower position in the past and tried to avoid that. I totally understand why you are sensitive to this kind of thing and why you feel it's so important for both of you to get it right. When I myself started to recognize the points at which relationships were starting to go wrong for me, and tried to talk about it, I found that I got relentless heaps of blame piled on me. First for "allowing" it to happen in the first place and "teaching" people the wrong ways to treat me. And then I got blamed just as harshly for deciding to do things differently and fly by instruments so as to avoid "teaching" people the wrong ways to treat me. I had to have the courage of my convictions over seemingly trivial social exchanges, and it was hard because as much as I got excoriated for being a "doormat" and "volunteering" to be abused and "bringing it on myself," I was then made out to be totally unreasonable, cold, unempathic and inflexible for not cooperating with the very things that had consistently gotten me victimized in the past. All I can say is that I stuck to my approach and it did work for me, and my life is now filled with respectful friendships.
posted by tel3path at 10:54 AM on September 2, 2011 [16 favorites]
You should have a life of your own, and be able to make plans for yourself.
Sure, but that should include making plans with potential romantic interests.
The problem with rules-type guidelines are that, even for really passive people, the response they encourage you to take (to assume that the other party isn't interested based on a slim amount of data gathered fairly quickly in the relationship) is a fairly rash one. There's a more sensible middle ground between doggedly chasing a potential romantic partner and stepping back and making them work to prove their interest, and that's openly communicating with them in an honest way. If it's really of primary importance to you to be with someone who both outwardly displays interest in fairly traditional ways and with someone who is very type-A and organized about planning, then it makes sense to, say, do what OP did. But many people have other needs in relationships, too, and that's when not trying to read someone's mind who you hardly know based on slim evidence comes into play.
So yeah, talking. Talking is good.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:01 AM on September 2, 2011
Sure, but that should include making plans with potential romantic interests.
The problem with rules-type guidelines are that, even for really passive people, the response they encourage you to take (to assume that the other party isn't interested based on a slim amount of data gathered fairly quickly in the relationship) is a fairly rash one. There's a more sensible middle ground between doggedly chasing a potential romantic partner and stepping back and making them work to prove their interest, and that's openly communicating with them in an honest way. If it's really of primary importance to you to be with someone who both outwardly displays interest in fairly traditional ways and with someone who is very type-A and organized about planning, then it makes sense to, say, do what OP did. But many people have other needs in relationships, too, and that's when not trying to read someone's mind who you hardly know based on slim evidence comes into play.
So yeah, talking. Talking is good.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:01 AM on September 2, 2011
So - did I jump the gun because I've had such a shitty week and because I've been burned in the past?
No, its just a scheduling thing.
You tell him a buddy called and suggested getting together so you made plans and then you ask him for a different time, because you are looking to get together again with Current Guy.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
No, its just a scheduling thing.
You tell him a buddy called and suggested getting together so you made plans and then you ask him for a different time, because you are looking to get together again with Current Guy.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
another vote for the truth and no blame. "Hi new guy, let's make firm plans this time! When I didn't hear from you I thought maybe we weren't getting together after all, so I made alternate plans, but I'm looking forward to seeing you at X or Y time, what works for you?"
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:56 PM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:56 PM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not unreasonable. I would have done similar. If I haven't heard from you about what's going on this weekend (after you signified intent for wanting to see me a few days ago), I'm gonna figure out other things to do; I'm not going to wait around for you. That teaches people that if they want to see you, then be clear about the logistics - when and where, etc. So you did not do a bad thing and ruin a good thing (don't blame yourself!!) - that should be the least of your worries.
So when you call current guy back, say, "Oh, I didn't hear from you. I'm already going with friend x to ___. But how about we get together on [day] at [time] and do/go to x?" i.e. negotiate another meet up and finish with "Awesome! See you then." and don't wait for him to ask you - it's ok to express that you want to see him and therefore suggest what you guys should do and when. Easy! (And I say easy because it seems like you are bogged down with feeling bad about yourself and the effect of previous bad relationships on you. Dating someone new doesn't have to be complicated, honest.)
posted by foxjacket at 2:17 PM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
So when you call current guy back, say, "Oh, I didn't hear from you. I'm already going with friend x to ___. But how about we get together on [day] at [time] and do/go to x?" i.e. negotiate another meet up and finish with "Awesome! See you then." and don't wait for him to ask you - it's ok to express that you want to see him and therefore suggest what you guys should do and when. Easy! (And I say easy because it seems like you are bogged down with feeling bad about yourself and the effect of previous bad relationships on you. Dating someone new doesn't have to be complicated, honest.)
posted by foxjacket at 2:17 PM on September 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
"I'm sorry, you mentioned us going out Friday and Saturday, but you didn't call me to make firm plans, and so I made other plans for the holiday. I'm disappointed; I wish I'd known that you were still available, as I would have really liked to have seen you. How about we make firm plans for next week, right now?"
disclaimer: this has happened to me, and it was very easy to focus on the 'I'm disappointed and really wanted to see you' part, because she wasn't trying to make me feel bad or blow me off; plus, it taught me that this particular girl preferred firm plans, and was not the type to sit around waiting for other people to take care of her -- a quality I have no small admiration for.
posted by davejay at 2:21 PM on September 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
disclaimer: this has happened to me, and it was very easy to focus on the 'I'm disappointed and really wanted to see you' part, because she wasn't trying to make me feel bad or blow me off; plus, it taught me that this particular girl preferred firm plans, and was not the type to sit around waiting for other people to take care of her -- a quality I have no small admiration for.
posted by davejay at 2:21 PM on September 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?
posted by screamingnotlaughing at 3:00 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by screamingnotlaughing at 3:00 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
« Older Book identification: old study skills book | Higher resolution version of photo of Carl Sagan... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by peacheater at 8:31 AM on September 2, 2011 [12 favorites]