Is it time for me to dissolve this marriage, & what should I expect the implications will be on my 10 and 12 yr old sons?
December 6, 2010 9:37 AM Subscribe
"I've changed, now you need to change too."
The end of this month marks my 20th wedding anniversary. I think however it's time for me to initiate the dissolution of this marriage.
I have two children (boys, 10 and 12), and am concerned about the possible effects of this, at this time, on them.
Cue the snowflakes.
Nearly eight years ago my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. She ended up learning that it was primarily caused by a genetic mutation that she had inherited. Her one other sister was diagnosed at the same time.
Together, lock-step, every appointment, every chemo treatment, every cross-country trip for surgery consultations and ultimately surgery I was there
for her. Together. As one. I even gave her injections at home to save her from having to ride in the car.
In spite of having been diagnosed & treated for cancer, I felt that our relationship had survived & frankly was much stronger. In fact, the three years after the last of the surgeries were some of the best of our whole marriage.
I have always been, and still am, a "leave the dishes in the sink, let's go have some fun." kind of person. My wife wasn't so much. She learned though from the cancer experience that life is to be lived & we both enjoyed each other and our family much more post-treatments.
Until about 3 & a half years ago. Anxiety about carcinogens, germs and fear in general of dying caused her to have a bit of a breakdown. While she was dealing with that she became a bit religous. We had both been raised in religous households, but didn't attend church. Our kids were not baptised, and generally both felt that religion was a bit superstitous. During this time a
friend she'd met 6 months earlier through a Cancer support group died from something unrelated to the cancer she had been currently dealing with.
My wife saw that as a sign from God. My wife also started to believe that God was giving her messages about how to live her life. She started attending church weekly. Going to different churches until she found one she liked
enough to bring the kids and me. so we went.
Eventually, that year, she enrolled the kids in catechism and 6 months later my kids were baptised. they were 8 & 6 at the time. It was a little clumsy because of all the newborns, but they did fine.
Then, my wife announces that she wants to write a book about how God speaks to us. She asked if it was okay with me for her to take a year off. A bit reluctantly, I agreed. she's a teacher and can take time off without pay
pretty easily, without fear of losing her job.
So she took year off writing her book, and behaving weirder and weirder (to me). some examples; Since God gives us message constantly, "These two sticks I just found laying on the ground in the form of a cross is a message." "I just saw some pink flip-flops laying on the floor in neighbors garage. they were in the shape of a cross. Gods telling me, though those flip-flops....." I could
go on and on. The short of it it is that she now believed that god pretty much directed every aspect of her life.
For perspective, my religous beliefs are secular humanist, borderline skeptic. Read Thomas Paine to get a good idea of where my head is at. She's told me that I have problems with the church because I was an abused altar boy, but that I just don't remember. Yes I was an altar boy as a kid. No I wasn't abused.
So when I was laid off from my job the following year, I was looking forward to her going back to work. Unknown to me, she requested another year off. While I was uunemployed, trying to start a business, buying groceries on credit, making 401k withdrawals to pay mortgage/taxes etc. etc. etc.
A wise Mefite once wrote... "It stops hurting when you stop banging your head against the wall." So I stopped trying to deal with her. I told her rather ceremoniously while showing her my wedding ring that the ring represented a commitment with a person I felt no longer existed. I took it off & haven't worn it since (coming up on two years). I immediately felt better about the whole situation.
When this happened, she posted an account of it on her (then) cancer support group message board. Many of her friends (through the boards) told her that they too felt she had changed and were very concerned about her new religious leanings. Some recommended she see a psychiatrist.
For the past two years, we've just existed. We don't communicate well at all. I try to talk to her & she gets this dreamy look in her eyes (the stare) & stares at her feet (usually). Sometimes she just laughs. It's really, really bizarre. She makes my family uneasy. She makes some members of her family uneasy. Her old friends don't call or come around much anymore. Her new friends are all through the church.
I've lost any desire to spend any time at all with her. Though she's lost weight and looks better physically than at any time I've known her, I have no physical desire toward her.
Yes - she's in therapy. (therapist #7 currently)
Yes - I've gone to therapy. #2 told me that I'm the sane one. #1 tells me that noone she knows has dealt with/endured the crap I have for as long as I have.
Yes - We've gone to couples counseling. "If you came here thinking that the other person needs to change, you're in the wrong place (#6). #5 told me that this is how she is now, you're going to have to deal with it.
I really liked #3, but my wife didn't so much when the therapist asked her to tell her more about these fantasies about god giving her messages. That appointment lasted all of 40 minutes.
I even got her to sit down with me and her priest. In a nice way he explained that God really doesn't send people messages and that no, she is not a divining rod for his messages to other people. (she actually called a neighbor once and told her that God left her a message with my wife.)
But I really can't stand being around her & cannot at all see spending the rest of my life with her.
The kids.
Whether it's their observations of my behavior toward her or their own reaction to how she is now, my kids are not comfortable with how she is now.
She's taken away books, music, television shows and other things that they were used to because they do not meet her very high expectations of what media they should be consuming. Example; A great story about a mouse that overcomes evil, Newberry Award winning book and author, was taken away because it had fighting in it. I tried to point out to her that it's a story, not real, the mice talk etc. etc, but she insisted. The kids were pretty distraught when she put bags of their books in the trash. The kids physically gravitate to me, and away from her, whenever we're both around.
I could go on, and on, and on with much much more. But I'll stop here.
My questions.
How should I expect my kids to fare should I initiate divorce?
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
My primary concern is for the children. I will do whatever is necessary to ensure they get through this in as healthy a manner as possible.
Yesterday my wife repeated something that she's said to me many times in the last few years. "I've had a physical, emotional, and spiritual transformation."
She followed it by telling me something new. That I now need to change.
I'd really prefer to stay married, but not to the woman she's become. I told her so. She pretty much told me that this is how she is now. She told me that Jesus is her #1 priority in life & that I'm next.
Bonus Question: Do people that have gone through things like this ever change back?
Throwaway email flipflopsfromheaven@gmail.com
Bring it Mefites. I've considered this question for a long time.
Nearly eight years ago my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. She ended up learning that it was primarily caused by a genetic mutation that she had inherited. Her one other sister was diagnosed at the same time.
Together, lock-step, every appointment, every chemo treatment, every cross-country trip for surgery consultations and ultimately surgery I was there
for her. Together. As one. I even gave her injections at home to save her from having to ride in the car.
In spite of having been diagnosed & treated for cancer, I felt that our relationship had survived & frankly was much stronger. In fact, the three years after the last of the surgeries were some of the best of our whole marriage.
I have always been, and still am, a "leave the dishes in the sink, let's go have some fun." kind of person. My wife wasn't so much. She learned though from the cancer experience that life is to be lived & we both enjoyed each other and our family much more post-treatments.
Until about 3 & a half years ago. Anxiety about carcinogens, germs and fear in general of dying caused her to have a bit of a breakdown. While she was dealing with that she became a bit religous. We had both been raised in religous households, but didn't attend church. Our kids were not baptised, and generally both felt that religion was a bit superstitous. During this time a
friend she'd met 6 months earlier through a Cancer support group died from something unrelated to the cancer she had been currently dealing with.
My wife saw that as a sign from God. My wife also started to believe that God was giving her messages about how to live her life. She started attending church weekly. Going to different churches until she found one she liked
enough to bring the kids and me. so we went.
Eventually, that year, she enrolled the kids in catechism and 6 months later my kids were baptised. they were 8 & 6 at the time. It was a little clumsy because of all the newborns, but they did fine.
Then, my wife announces that she wants to write a book about how God speaks to us. She asked if it was okay with me for her to take a year off. A bit reluctantly, I agreed. she's a teacher and can take time off without pay
pretty easily, without fear of losing her job.
So she took year off writing her book, and behaving weirder and weirder (to me). some examples; Since God gives us message constantly, "These two sticks I just found laying on the ground in the form of a cross is a message." "I just saw some pink flip-flops laying on the floor in neighbors garage. they were in the shape of a cross. Gods telling me, though those flip-flops....." I could
go on and on. The short of it it is that she now believed that god pretty much directed every aspect of her life.
For perspective, my religous beliefs are secular humanist, borderline skeptic. Read Thomas Paine to get a good idea of where my head is at. She's told me that I have problems with the church because I was an abused altar boy, but that I just don't remember. Yes I was an altar boy as a kid. No I wasn't abused.
So when I was laid off from my job the following year, I was looking forward to her going back to work. Unknown to me, she requested another year off. While I was uunemployed, trying to start a business, buying groceries on credit, making 401k withdrawals to pay mortgage/taxes etc. etc. etc.
A wise Mefite once wrote... "It stops hurting when you stop banging your head against the wall." So I stopped trying to deal with her. I told her rather ceremoniously while showing her my wedding ring that the ring represented a commitment with a person I felt no longer existed. I took it off & haven't worn it since (coming up on two years). I immediately felt better about the whole situation.
When this happened, she posted an account of it on her (then) cancer support group message board. Many of her friends (through the boards) told her that they too felt she had changed and were very concerned about her new religious leanings. Some recommended she see a psychiatrist.
For the past two years, we've just existed. We don't communicate well at all. I try to talk to her & she gets this dreamy look in her eyes (the stare) & stares at her feet (usually). Sometimes she just laughs. It's really, really bizarre. She makes my family uneasy. She makes some members of her family uneasy. Her old friends don't call or come around much anymore. Her new friends are all through the church.
I've lost any desire to spend any time at all with her. Though she's lost weight and looks better physically than at any time I've known her, I have no physical desire toward her.
Yes - she's in therapy. (therapist #7 currently)
Yes - I've gone to therapy. #2 told me that I'm the sane one. #1 tells me that noone she knows has dealt with/endured the crap I have for as long as I have.
Yes - We've gone to couples counseling. "If you came here thinking that the other person needs to change, you're in the wrong place (#6). #5 told me that this is how she is now, you're going to have to deal with it.
I really liked #3, but my wife didn't so much when the therapist asked her to tell her more about these fantasies about god giving her messages. That appointment lasted all of 40 minutes.
I even got her to sit down with me and her priest. In a nice way he explained that God really doesn't send people messages and that no, she is not a divining rod for his messages to other people. (she actually called a neighbor once and told her that God left her a message with my wife.)
But I really can't stand being around her & cannot at all see spending the rest of my life with her.
The kids.
Whether it's their observations of my behavior toward her or their own reaction to how she is now, my kids are not comfortable with how she is now.
She's taken away books, music, television shows and other things that they were used to because they do not meet her very high expectations of what media they should be consuming. Example; A great story about a mouse that overcomes evil, Newberry Award winning book and author, was taken away because it had fighting in it. I tried to point out to her that it's a story, not real, the mice talk etc. etc, but she insisted. The kids were pretty distraught when she put bags of their books in the trash. The kids physically gravitate to me, and away from her, whenever we're both around.
I could go on, and on, and on with much much more. But I'll stop here.
My questions.
How should I expect my kids to fare should I initiate divorce?
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
My primary concern is for the children. I will do whatever is necessary to ensure they get through this in as healthy a manner as possible.
Yesterday my wife repeated something that she's said to me many times in the last few years. "I've had a physical, emotional, and spiritual transformation."
She followed it by telling me something new. That I now need to change.
I'd really prefer to stay married, but not to the woman she's become. I told her so. She pretty much told me that this is how she is now. She told me that Jesus is her #1 priority in life & that I'm next.
Bonus Question: Do people that have gone through things like this ever change back?
Throwaway email flipflopsfromheaven@gmail.com
Bring it Mefites. I've considered this question for a long time.
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
No. I was thrilled when my parents divorced and I had to endure much less that what your kids are going through.
You and your wife are their role models. Currently your wife doesn't sound like a healthy role model. So it's up to you to show them, by example, how to be happy and enjoy life and that they do not have to put up with crazy shit from significant others.
Good luck.
posted by nomadicink at 9:47 AM on December 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
No. I was thrilled when my parents divorced and I had to endure much less that what your kids are going through.
You and your wife are their role models. Currently your wife doesn't sound like a healthy role model. So it's up to you to show them, by example, how to be happy and enjoy life and that they do not have to put up with crazy shit from significant others.
Good luck.
posted by nomadicink at 9:47 AM on December 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
To be honest, I don't see why you would have a problem getting primary custody of your kids, considering how clear her mental illness has been to both people in the mental health field and people in the religion field.
Yes, people "change back" if they take medication and do therapy to get past their fixed delusional patterns. Your wife seems awfully unlikely to do this, alas. (Something to think about: it is not unusual for schizophrenia to manifest itself for the first time in women at menopause; perhaps something in the course of your wife's cancer treatment triggered a hormone crisis that resulted in an early manifestation?)
"Jesus is my number one priority" is not a delusion, but "God is sending me messages through flipflops" is. The clergy member you saw with her agreed that your wife is not firing on all cylinders, so this isn't about some anti-religious bias of yours.
My heart is breaking for your kids. I really wish you could get them out of this situation. I know a few people who were raised by parents who were experiencing delusions centered around religion, and it was horrible for them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:48 AM on December 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
Yes, people "change back" if they take medication and do therapy to get past their fixed delusional patterns. Your wife seems awfully unlikely to do this, alas. (Something to think about: it is not unusual for schizophrenia to manifest itself for the first time in women at menopause; perhaps something in the course of your wife's cancer treatment triggered a hormone crisis that resulted in an early manifestation?)
"Jesus is my number one priority" is not a delusion, but "God is sending me messages through flipflops" is. The clergy member you saw with her agreed that your wife is not firing on all cylinders, so this isn't about some anti-religious bias of yours.
My heart is breaking for your kids. I really wish you could get them out of this situation. I know a few people who were raised by parents who were experiencing delusions centered around religion, and it was horrible for them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:48 AM on December 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think you need to be explicit with yourself about whether you believe your wife has merely become religious, or you believe your wife has experienced some serious psychological disjunction.
We on metafilter certainly can't tell you for sure either way, but the facts that:
- her online friends also perceived a sudden change in her behavior, and are concerned
- she has decided, without evidence, that you were abused
- her "religious experiences" seem awfully arbitrary
- at least one psychologist viewed her faith as delusional rather than merely non-rational
-- all suggest that the latter is in play. And my impression is that that's your instinct right now, too (right?).
If you believe she has experienced a psychological break of some kind, then "staying together for the kids" seems a lot less likely to be in their interests, and the answer to your question "do people that have gone through things like this ever change back?" includes discussion of medication rather than of deprogramming (medication may, incidentally, in some ways be easier to implement).
posted by foursentences at 9:50 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
We on metafilter certainly can't tell you for sure either way, but the facts that:
- her online friends also perceived a sudden change in her behavior, and are concerned
- she has decided, without evidence, that you were abused
- her "religious experiences" seem awfully arbitrary
- at least one psychologist viewed her faith as delusional rather than merely non-rational
-- all suggest that the latter is in play. And my impression is that that's your instinct right now, too (right?).
If you believe she has experienced a psychological break of some kind, then "staying together for the kids" seems a lot less likely to be in their interests, and the answer to your question "do people that have gone through things like this ever change back?" includes discussion of medication rather than of deprogramming (medication may, incidentally, in some ways be easier to implement).
posted by foursentences at 9:50 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
You say that she has seen therapists, but has she ever been seen by a real, honest-to-god psychiatrist? It sounds like you could be dealing with a serious mental illness. Therapists who specialize in counseling such as couple's therapists, LSW's and even psychologists can sometimes be shockingly dense at recognizing the signs of actual mental disorders, as many times they have been trained to focus on facilitating behavioral change.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 9:51 AM on December 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 9:51 AM on December 6, 2010 [16 favorites]
I've seen plenty of people find faith. I've seen far fewer of 'em find faith, then abandon it. For whatever reason, it's a bit rarer.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. It sounds absolutely harrowing.
As a divorcee:
- How well the kids will fare has a LOT to do with how committed both parents are to acting in a mature, responsible, kind manner. You cannot control how their mother will behave. But if YOU stay committed to being a grown-up (this will be HARD, incidentally), they'll at least have THAT going for them.
- Staying together for the kids - when there are major, irreconcilable problems in a relationship - is a lot like that old Vietnam-era saying about "destroying the village in order to save it". Or, to use another analogy, keeping a gangrenous arm attached so that one doesn't have to learn to tie shoelaces one-handed. It won't help and can be devastating.
- You need to get your personal situation in order before dropping the bomb on her. Get your finances in order (including separate money). Speak with a lawyer, or someone from legal aid. Telling someone you want to divorce them is something you only get ONE SHOT at... don't go in unprepared.
Feel free to MeMail me... I'd be happy to provide any support/info/resources I can. Good luck.
posted by julthumbscrew at 9:52 AM on December 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're going through this. It sounds absolutely harrowing.
As a divorcee:
- How well the kids will fare has a LOT to do with how committed both parents are to acting in a mature, responsible, kind manner. You cannot control how their mother will behave. But if YOU stay committed to being a grown-up (this will be HARD, incidentally), they'll at least have THAT going for them.
- Staying together for the kids - when there are major, irreconcilable problems in a relationship - is a lot like that old Vietnam-era saying about "destroying the village in order to save it". Or, to use another analogy, keeping a gangrenous arm attached so that one doesn't have to learn to tie shoelaces one-handed. It won't help and can be devastating.
- You need to get your personal situation in order before dropping the bomb on her. Get your finances in order (including separate money). Speak with a lawyer, or someone from legal aid. Telling someone you want to divorce them is something you only get ONE SHOT at... don't go in unprepared.
Feel free to MeMail me... I'd be happy to provide any support/info/resources I can. Good luck.
posted by julthumbscrew at 9:52 AM on December 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Your wife is taking away books from young kids who are just discovering the joys of reading?! The worst thing you could do for your children is to allow her to continue to deprive them of rich life experiences that will allow them to enjoy being kids and learn what the world is about. What happens if they get assigned The Giver in 6th grade? She probably won't be okay with that book, so is she going to prevent them from reading it for school?
The kids will adapt if you divorce and you make clear to them what the expectations are. They may have to put up with mom taking their books at her house, but remind them at your house, there will always be books, and more important, there will always be someone who loves them even if they question God, or want to watch scary movies, or have friends who aren't in church.
posted by slow graffiti at 9:52 AM on December 6, 2010 [9 favorites]
The kids will adapt if you divorce and you make clear to them what the expectations are. They may have to put up with mom taking their books at her house, but remind them at your house, there will always be books, and more important, there will always be someone who loves them even if they question God, or want to watch scary movies, or have friends who aren't in church.
posted by slow graffiti at 9:52 AM on December 6, 2010 [9 favorites]
I phrased that poorly -- you explicitly say that at one point she did have a mental breakdown; the question you need to confront head-on is whether her current behaviors are continuations of that breakdown, rather than outgrowths of her religious mechanism for coping with the breakdown. And again, it sounds like you suspect the former.
posted by foursentences at 9:53 AM on December 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by foursentences at 9:53 AM on December 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Therapists who specialize in counseling such as couple's therapists, LSW's and even psychologists can sometimes be shockingly dense at recognizing the signs of actual mental disorders
But it sounds like several of the therapists have been very pointed in identifying the delusional behaviors. As was the clergy member.
I don't think the issue is lack of diagnosis of the delusional patterns--I think that the OP isn't able to convince the wife that others' diagnoses are correct. This is a very frequent issue faced by the family and friends of people experiencing delusions.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:53 AM on December 6, 2010
But it sounds like several of the therapists have been very pointed in identifying the delusional behaviors. As was the clergy member.
I don't think the issue is lack of diagnosis of the delusional patterns--I think that the OP isn't able to convince the wife that others' diagnoses are correct. This is a very frequent issue faced by the family and friends of people experiencing delusions.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:53 AM on December 6, 2010
I am not a psychiatrist, nor a psychologist. Based purely upon anecdotal experience , your wife sounds schizophrenic.
I'm tangentially involved with Cancer research, and know through first-hand experience that Chemo Brain in real. Chemotherapy can cause real, permanent changes to your brain.
Is it possible that chemo triggered latent schizophrenia your wife?
posted by Oktober at 10:00 AM on December 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
I'm tangentially involved with Cancer research, and know through first-hand experience that Chemo Brain in real. Chemotherapy can cause real, permanent changes to your brain.
Is it possible that chemo triggered latent schizophrenia your wife?
posted by Oktober at 10:00 AM on December 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
I would consider taking her to her doctor's for a checkup; see what they say. Then next, a psychiatrist. This sounds scary.
posted by dzaz at 10:01 AM on December 6, 2010
posted by dzaz at 10:01 AM on December 6, 2010
I don't think the issue is lack of diagnosis of the delusional patterns--I think that the OP isn't able to convince the wife that others' diagnoses are correct. This is a very frequent issue faced by the family and friends of people experiencing delusions.
I'm not getting the impression that she has actually been diagnosed with anything at this point, as the OP only mentions various people (therapists and others) as agreeing with him that she is not right in some way, and he doesn't sound like he is too clear on the fact that she may be mentally ill rather than simply having become a "religious nut."
I'd think obtaining a diagnosis, if there is one, would be incredibly important to ensuring he gets custody of his children if they do divorce, even if he can't convince his wife to get the help she needs.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:03 AM on December 6, 2010
I'm not getting the impression that she has actually been diagnosed with anything at this point, as the OP only mentions various people (therapists and others) as agreeing with him that she is not right in some way, and he doesn't sound like he is too clear on the fact that she may be mentally ill rather than simply having become a "religious nut."
I'd think obtaining a diagnosis, if there is one, would be incredibly important to ensuring he gets custody of his children if they do divorce, even if he can't convince his wife to get the help she needs.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:03 AM on December 6, 2010
Your wife's behavior reminds me of growing up with a bi-polar mother. The weight loss combined with the "messages" she's receiving describe what could be a manic episode ramped up into psychosis. IANAP and IANYP. This woman needs a very comprehensive neuro and psychiatric workup BEFORE something requiring a 5150 happens.
posted by Cookbooks and Chaos at 10:12 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Cookbooks and Chaos at 10:12 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
My father had a similar experience with an ex-spouse who developed schizoid symptoms as a young adult, complete with religious secret messages. Do not stay with this woman. Encourage her to seek professional help as much as you can, but get out of there. Bring your children.
posted by tehloki at 10:15 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by tehloki at 10:15 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I too am very concerned about the "signs from God" aspect. It sounds like mental illness may be an overlooked part of this equation -- there is a big difference between 'finding God' and believing you're his special messenger to the world. Even the priest thinks she's over the top.
posted by zug at 10:18 AM on December 6, 2010
posted by zug at 10:18 AM on December 6, 2010
Also, the kids sound uneasy and afraid of her. I imagine getting them out of that environment is only going to do them good.
posted by zug at 10:22 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by zug at 10:22 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'll nth the impressions of everyone else here that your wife sounds far more like someone suffering from mental illness than like someone who's simply found Jesus or had a shift in life priorities.
If this is the case, then before you decide definitely on divorce proceedings, you might spend a month or two looking at her behavior through that lens. Mental illness might change quite a few aspects of your current assessment of the situation. For one thing, it implicitly removes the element of fault that your title (probably justly) implies. If your wife is suffering from a psychiatric disorder, then she may not be capable of changing without medical intervention and/or medication. Looking at this like a mental illness might also mean that your wife might be able to look forward to at least a partial remission of her symptoms if properly treated/medicated. Would you still want divorce if you thought your old wife, the one you loved, might be somewhat recoverable at some point?
Lastly, do be aware that mental illness in your wife would very likely alter the post-divorce picture considerably. She might have at least partial legal custody (especially if she remains undiagnosed), her symptoms might worsen unexpectedly, and as her ex-husband you'd have far less leverage to try to get her treatment than you do now. What would that mean for your children? What rights would you, or they, have in that case?
I think that at a minimum you owe it to your children to consult a psychiatrist and/or social worker who specializes in mental illness, to talk through the avenues available to you. Asking for a divorce is a big, irrevocable step that changes a lot of things, and it's going to be hard to realistically assess the pros and cons while you're still in a state of relative uncertainty about what's going on with your wife
posted by Bardolph at 10:22 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
If this is the case, then before you decide definitely on divorce proceedings, you might spend a month or two looking at her behavior through that lens. Mental illness might change quite a few aspects of your current assessment of the situation. For one thing, it implicitly removes the element of fault that your title (probably justly) implies. If your wife is suffering from a psychiatric disorder, then she may not be capable of changing without medical intervention and/or medication. Looking at this like a mental illness might also mean that your wife might be able to look forward to at least a partial remission of her symptoms if properly treated/medicated. Would you still want divorce if you thought your old wife, the one you loved, might be somewhat recoverable at some point?
Lastly, do be aware that mental illness in your wife would very likely alter the post-divorce picture considerably. She might have at least partial legal custody (especially if she remains undiagnosed), her symptoms might worsen unexpectedly, and as her ex-husband you'd have far less leverage to try to get her treatment than you do now. What would that mean for your children? What rights would you, or they, have in that case?
I think that at a minimum you owe it to your children to consult a psychiatrist and/or social worker who specializes in mental illness, to talk through the avenues available to you. Asking for a divorce is a big, irrevocable step that changes a lot of things, and it's going to be hard to realistically assess the pros and cons while you're still in a state of relative uncertainty about what's going on with your wife
posted by Bardolph at 10:22 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm not getting the impression that she has actually been diagnosed with anything at this point
No, good point. What I should have said was "identification of the delusional patterns," not "diagnosis".
he doesn't sound like he is too clear on the fact that she may be mentally ill rather than simply having become a "religious nut."
H'm. I guess I thought he was trying to lay out the data without imposing his judgment of the situation, but it seems pretty clear to me that she is having some kind of very severe mental illness, and that he knows that (as do the therapists and the clergy member). OP, if you've been on the fence about this, please don't be. Your wife is experiencing delusions.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:23 AM on December 6, 2010
No, good point. What I should have said was "identification of the delusional patterns," not "diagnosis".
he doesn't sound like he is too clear on the fact that she may be mentally ill rather than simply having become a "religious nut."
H'm. I guess I thought he was trying to lay out the data without imposing his judgment of the situation, but it seems pretty clear to me that she is having some kind of very severe mental illness, and that he knows that (as do the therapists and the clergy member). OP, if you've been on the fence about this, please don't be. Your wife is experiencing delusions.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:23 AM on December 6, 2010
How should I expect my kids to fare should I initiate divorce?
They will survive. It might be a rocky road. It took me ~20 years to really understand and forgive my parent for divorcing. But now that I do I feel like a jackass for not catching on sooner.
A lot of it depends on how you and possibly to a greater degree how your wife deals with it. It will be much harder on them if either of you make the other one into the bad guy.
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
You can't know that in advance. If it ends up that your wife snaps out of it and life goes back to good, it's a good lesson in sticking with a loved one through thick and thin. If things get worse, that lesson will be diluted by the conflict in the household.
This also depends on how the story is presented by you and your wife. If you can maintain a warm, friendly, safe plae for the kids, they will probably see that and be able to understand the "staying together for the kids" motivation. Because IMHO, lurching between two homes is a price that can be higher than sticking with the not-so-perfect home you have.
Yesterday my wife repeated something that she's said to me many times in the last few years. "I've had a physical, emotional, and spiritual transformation."
She followed it by telling me something new. That I now need to change.
I'd really prefer to stay married, but not to the woman she's become. I told her so. She pretty much told me that this is how she is now. She told me that Jesus is her #1 priority in life & that I'm next.
Ask her if she thinks Jesus would be cool with that kind of ultimatum. Does Jesus really want followers who were conscripted by force? Since you said "priest" I'm assuming Catholic. How does she reconcile her devotion to religion, while at the same time creating a scenario where she must divorce if you don't change? It would seem that she is ignoring one vow she took in place of another- is that really what the story of Jesus teaches? Doesn't she harm her relationship with Jesus more by breaking a vow she took before him than by adhering to that vow with someone (from her perspective) who hasn't yet been saved?
The opposing viewpoint is that the religion is just one of the things going on. Maybe she has an unhappiness with the marriage and is using religion as a sort of "appeal to authority" to make ending the marriage seem like less her idea and more just what has to be done.
Bonus Question: Do people that have gone through things like this ever change back?
Yes. Depends. If she is in the throes of a breakdown or god forbid some kind of re-occurrence of cancer, getting that repaired should let her return back to normalcy. But on the other hand, sometimes the power of religion is so strong that people stick with it harder rather than admit they were wrong about it in the first place. Sort of deciding that they'd rather be seen as a religious nut rather than a quitter, or just a nut.
posted by gjc at 10:24 AM on December 6, 2010
They will survive. It might be a rocky road. It took me ~20 years to really understand and forgive my parent for divorcing. But now that I do I feel like a jackass for not catching on sooner.
A lot of it depends on how you and possibly to a greater degree how your wife deals with it. It will be much harder on them if either of you make the other one into the bad guy.
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
You can't know that in advance. If it ends up that your wife snaps out of it and life goes back to good, it's a good lesson in sticking with a loved one through thick and thin. If things get worse, that lesson will be diluted by the conflict in the household.
This also depends on how the story is presented by you and your wife. If you can maintain a warm, friendly, safe plae for the kids, they will probably see that and be able to understand the "staying together for the kids" motivation. Because IMHO, lurching between two homes is a price that can be higher than sticking with the not-so-perfect home you have.
Yesterday my wife repeated something that she's said to me many times in the last few years. "I've had a physical, emotional, and spiritual transformation."
She followed it by telling me something new. That I now need to change.
I'd really prefer to stay married, but not to the woman she's become. I told her so. She pretty much told me that this is how she is now. She told me that Jesus is her #1 priority in life & that I'm next.
Ask her if she thinks Jesus would be cool with that kind of ultimatum. Does Jesus really want followers who were conscripted by force? Since you said "priest" I'm assuming Catholic. How does she reconcile her devotion to religion, while at the same time creating a scenario where she must divorce if you don't change? It would seem that she is ignoring one vow she took in place of another- is that really what the story of Jesus teaches? Doesn't she harm her relationship with Jesus more by breaking a vow she took before him than by adhering to that vow with someone (from her perspective) who hasn't yet been saved?
The opposing viewpoint is that the religion is just one of the things going on. Maybe she has an unhappiness with the marriage and is using religion as a sort of "appeal to authority" to make ending the marriage seem like less her idea and more just what has to be done.
Bonus Question: Do people that have gone through things like this ever change back?
Yes. Depends. If she is in the throes of a breakdown or god forbid some kind of re-occurrence of cancer, getting that repaired should let her return back to normalcy. But on the other hand, sometimes the power of religion is so strong that people stick with it harder rather than admit they were wrong about it in the first place. Sort of deciding that they'd rather be seen as a religious nut rather than a quitter, or just a nut.
posted by gjc at 10:24 AM on December 6, 2010
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
My dad used to threaten to throw out my books (he did destroy other things that were valuable to me) and 'distraught' would be a mild term for how that made me feel. Memories of things like this still bring on an emotional reaction, and I'm 31 years old. I used to beg my mother to divorce him (for that and many other reasons; he was also high on the crazy scale). Regardless of who gets primary custody of the children, if you and your wife are living apart, you will be able to create a safe place for them wherever you are living, where they may store anything they don't want her to see or throw out, and that they know is there waiting for them whenever they need a peaceful, non-crazy place to be. Speaking soley from my own experience, this would have been a HUGE help. Even part-time sanity, I think, would be much better for your sons than having no safe haven from someone who obviously makes them uncomfortable.
posted by frobozz at 10:26 AM on December 6, 2010 [27 favorites]
My dad used to threaten to throw out my books (he did destroy other things that were valuable to me) and 'distraught' would be a mild term for how that made me feel. Memories of things like this still bring on an emotional reaction, and I'm 31 years old. I used to beg my mother to divorce him (for that and many other reasons; he was also high on the crazy scale). Regardless of who gets primary custody of the children, if you and your wife are living apart, you will be able to create a safe place for them wherever you are living, where they may store anything they don't want her to see or throw out, and that they know is there waiting for them whenever they need a peaceful, non-crazy place to be. Speaking soley from my own experience, this would have been a HUGE help. Even part-time sanity, I think, would be much better for your sons than having no safe haven from someone who obviously makes them uncomfortable.
posted by frobozz at 10:26 AM on December 6, 2010 [27 favorites]
Go back and have a frank discussion with the priest, just you and him. Since he appears to be the kind of priest who recognizes the difference between mental illness and devotion, he may be able or at least willing to help you get her to seek treatment.
And I wouldn't try to argue over doctrinal minutiae with your wife over any of this stuff; I suspect the whole thing is a red herring covering up deeper issues, and it's unlikely to get through to her. This whole thing falls under the "sickness" paragraph of the "in sickness and in health" clause (which I only point out because you do say that you would prefer to stay married, just not under these circumstances). It's encouraging and, I think, a sign that all hope is not lost that she's still willing to go to therapy and couples counseling. Try to get her some medical attention before taking the divorce plunge.
posted by Gator at 10:37 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
And I wouldn't try to argue over doctrinal minutiae with your wife over any of this stuff; I suspect the whole thing is a red herring covering up deeper issues, and it's unlikely to get through to her. This whole thing falls under the "sickness" paragraph of the "in sickness and in health" clause (which I only point out because you do say that you would prefer to stay married, just not under these circumstances). It's encouraging and, I think, a sign that all hope is not lost that she's still willing to go to therapy and couples counseling. Try to get her some medical attention before taking the divorce plunge.
posted by Gator at 10:37 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Pay a lot of attention to that first comment; the brain is one of the primary places for breast cancer metastasis.
posted by Knowyournuts at 10:38 AM on December 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Knowyournuts at 10:38 AM on December 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
How should I expect my kids to fare should I initiate divorce?
They'll get over it.
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
Absolutely not. My parents prolonged an unhappy marriage "for the sake of the kids", and everybody was much happier when it finally ended. Being raised around adults that are unhappy and resentful towards each other is far more traumatic than the brief unpleasantness of a divorce.
That said, custody is a huge issue, so don't jump into this before you've thoroughly planned it out with an attorney.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:40 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
They'll get over it.
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
Absolutely not. My parents prolonged an unhappy marriage "for the sake of the kids", and everybody was much happier when it finally ended. Being raised around adults that are unhappy and resentful towards each other is far more traumatic than the brief unpleasantness of a divorce.
That said, custody is a huge issue, so don't jump into this before you've thoroughly planned it out with an attorney.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:40 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know of someone whose mother went through a similar extreme religious conversion after a catastrophic car accident in which her husband and the family's pastor were killed. She'd always been religious, and had been in Campus Crusade in college, but after that she grew extremist about Christianity, to the point where her birthday present to one of her sons one year was all of his CDs—destroyed. Apparently they were "evil" and he needed to be saved from their influence. Happy freakin' birthday.
I don't know whether this personality change was due to a head injury sustained in the crash, or just due to her need to feel in control after that happened—and I don't know that she ever actually thought God was speaking directly to her. But what I do know is that her kids grew up with a huge sense of loss and insecurity, because not only was their father gone, but their mother seemed to have become a cruel, irrational person who was no longer on their side.
There aren't a lot of good answers in your situation, but it's probably better that the kids not have to deal with further manifestations of whatever it is she's going through, especially when she's routinely destroying or throwing away their possessions in the name of God. Having a large portion of their toys, books, movies, music, etc. thrown away is a memory that will be with your kids for a long time, and may well influence their choices in a variety of different areas for the rest of their lives. They may go to great lengths to regain the sense of security that she's taking away from them.
posted by limeonaire at 10:44 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't know whether this personality change was due to a head injury sustained in the crash, or just due to her need to feel in control after that happened—and I don't know that she ever actually thought God was speaking directly to her. But what I do know is that her kids grew up with a huge sense of loss and insecurity, because not only was their father gone, but their mother seemed to have become a cruel, irrational person who was no longer on their side.
There aren't a lot of good answers in your situation, but it's probably better that the kids not have to deal with further manifestations of whatever it is she's going through, especially when she's routinely destroying or throwing away their possessions in the name of God. Having a large portion of their toys, books, movies, music, etc. thrown away is a memory that will be with your kids for a long time, and may well influence their choices in a variety of different areas for the rest of their lives. They may go to great lengths to regain the sense of security that she's taking away from them.
posted by limeonaire at 10:44 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
See also frobozz's response above. Wish I could favorite it more times.
posted by limeonaire at 10:49 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 10:49 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
From both my own experience and the experience of a good friend, "staying together for the sake of the children" only prolonged our suffering. In his case, it meant going home to a battle EVERY NIGHT. For me it meant having to cope with Who's Who in Paranoid Delusions every night. I was thrilled when my parents finally divorced so that I could finally feel safe at home again. My friend had to wait until he went to college, but for both of us the change in our behavior was revelatory because we were no longer footmen in a battle not of our choosing.
This is not to say that I didn't still have to deal with issues, and if you are really concerned about your kids coping with the divorce, you can go into counseling with them to help you all work through these issues openly.
posted by miss-lapin at 10:59 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is not to say that I didn't still have to deal with issues, and if you are really concerned about your kids coping with the divorce, you can go into counseling with them to help you all work through these issues openly.
posted by miss-lapin at 10:59 AM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
I really cannot speak to th rest of this, but keep in mind that the kids know EVERYTHING you have posted above. So many parents think that children are completely unaware of what is going on in their own house. This is not true.
posted by Felex at 11:01 AM on December 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Felex at 11:01 AM on December 6, 2010 [6 favorites]
I'm with nomadicink. It was a huge relief to my brother and I when our parents divorced. Kids don't like living around that kind of tension even less than adults don't like it. You can't hide it from them.
You need to take care of yourself to have the energy and resources to take care of your children. God is apparently taking care of your wife, let him.
posted by QIbHom at 11:01 AM on December 6, 2010
You need to take care of yourself to have the energy and resources to take care of your children. God is apparently taking care of your wife, let him.
posted by QIbHom at 11:01 AM on December 6, 2010
I know it can be difficult to persuade someone else to go see a doctor, or even contact someone else's doctor since they can't tell you anything, so how about contacting her oncologist? You could frame it as concerns that the chemotherapy has affected her in some way, and are wondering if that is an avenue to consider. That at least gets something noted on her medical chart (I assume).
Also strongly seconding others that you need to get everything in order and ready for divorce proceeding BEFORE you tell her. Who knows how she may respond, so its better to have a solid exit strategy in place. I do think though, that you should do your best to work on getting a psychiatrist to evaluate her at the same time that you prepare your exit strategy. To my mind, it is your job as a parent to protect your children from what sounds like a mentally-ill mother. I don't think you should delay moving forward with some sort of change (separation at first if you want to allow for her changing back with the help of medication). Consult a lawyer. Consult a mental health professional or social worker to find out what your avenues are to help your wife get an evaluation. Be ready with an exit strategy.
posted by Joh at 11:05 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also strongly seconding others that you need to get everything in order and ready for divorce proceeding BEFORE you tell her. Who knows how she may respond, so its better to have a solid exit strategy in place. I do think though, that you should do your best to work on getting a psychiatrist to evaluate her at the same time that you prepare your exit strategy. To my mind, it is your job as a parent to protect your children from what sounds like a mentally-ill mother. I don't think you should delay moving forward with some sort of change (separation at first if you want to allow for her changing back with the help of medication). Consult a lawyer. Consult a mental health professional or social worker to find out what your avenues are to help your wife get an evaluation. Be ready with an exit strategy.
posted by Joh at 11:05 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I just want to highlight that, with the "abused altar boy" business, your wife is including you in her delusional framework. That suggests that her delusional framework is growing more complex and robust.
(I tend to agree with the analysis that this sounds more like organic mental illness than plain old religious conversion -- and I've known people in both categories.)
I am sympathetic to the argument that this is the "in sickness" part of marriage, but your first responsibility is to your children. In a sense, creating a sane home for your children is the execution of your marriage vows (and, depending on your tradition and choices, language to that effect may have been literal in them as well as implicit.)
"The woman your wife used to be" would likely*, if she were around to ask, say that she would want you to make sure your children were physically, emotionally, and mentally safe, and then that you make sure she got psychiatric treatment for her illness.
*or she might prioritize her own care. But the proportion of people who would say, "If I start showing symptoms of probable serious mental illness, please just tough it out and have the kids tough it out with you, even if I start acting in ways completely out of line with my known values," is, I think, pretty tiny.
posted by endless_forms at 11:07 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
(I tend to agree with the analysis that this sounds more like organic mental illness than plain old religious conversion -- and I've known people in both categories.)
I am sympathetic to the argument that this is the "in sickness" part of marriage, but your first responsibility is to your children. In a sense, creating a sane home for your children is the execution of your marriage vows (and, depending on your tradition and choices, language to that effect may have been literal in them as well as implicit.)
"The woman your wife used to be" would likely*, if she were around to ask, say that she would want you to make sure your children were physically, emotionally, and mentally safe, and then that you make sure she got psychiatric treatment for her illness.
*or she might prioritize her own care. But the proportion of people who would say, "If I start showing symptoms of probable serious mental illness, please just tough it out and have the kids tough it out with you, even if I start acting in ways completely out of line with my known values," is, I think, pretty tiny.
posted by endless_forms at 11:07 AM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'll nth the impressions of everyone else here that your wife sounds far more like someone suffering from mental illness than like someone who's simply found Jesus or had a shift in life priorities.
Your story sounds eerily similar to something some good friends of mine went through a few years back (call them Henry + Laura), although Laura's "illness" had a quicker onset that your wife's, which made it easier to 1. diagnose, 2. take action against.
In their case, after first getting a go ahead from both Laura's doctor and pastor, Henry got her committed to the local hospital's psyche ward. After about a month's drama, she was released on meds and has remained on them (and in therapy) ever since. The marriage has thus far survived and, in fact, seems to be doing very well. She still has her faith in Jesus but it's not considered to be "irrational" anymore.
Bottom line: do something now - you may be surprised at how effective some effective mental health care can be.
Good luck.
posted by philip-random at 11:09 AM on December 6, 2010
Your story sounds eerily similar to something some good friends of mine went through a few years back (call them Henry + Laura), although Laura's "illness" had a quicker onset that your wife's, which made it easier to 1. diagnose, 2. take action against.
In their case, after first getting a go ahead from both Laura's doctor and pastor, Henry got her committed to the local hospital's psyche ward. After about a month's drama, she was released on meds and has remained on them (and in therapy) ever since. The marriage has thus far survived and, in fact, seems to be doing very well. She still has her faith in Jesus but it's not considered to be "irrational" anymore.
Bottom line: do something now - you may be surprised at how effective some effective mental health care can be.
Good luck.
posted by philip-random at 11:09 AM on December 6, 2010
Not a doctor, obviously, but: Your wife has developed a mental illness in much the same way she developed cancer. She sounds very much like my partner's schizophrenic aunt. Not saying she's developed schizophrenia -- who knows what it is -- but it sounds like you're dealing with very similar symptoms.
Which makes the answer to this question very simple:
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
No fucking way. Get them out of that situation. Get them into counseling -- find them a good, sympathetic counselor -- so that they can deal with and learn to understand a) mom's illness and b) mom and dad's divorce. Make sure they have someone neutral to talk to, someone who can advocate for them without taking sides.
Her treatment is not your responsibility. She's the one who's going to have to be responsible for finding effective treatment and sticking with it. Unfortunately, at least in the case of schizophrenia-type illnesses, people dispense with the treatment once they start feeling better because, hey!, they feel better. So protect yourself and your kids and make a good life for them, rather than trying to fix your wife.
Good luck.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:12 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Which makes the answer to this question very simple:
Does staying together for the sake of the kids actually help them?
No fucking way. Get them out of that situation. Get them into counseling -- find them a good, sympathetic counselor -- so that they can deal with and learn to understand a) mom's illness and b) mom and dad's divorce. Make sure they have someone neutral to talk to, someone who can advocate for them without taking sides.
Her treatment is not your responsibility. She's the one who's going to have to be responsible for finding effective treatment and sticking with it. Unfortunately, at least in the case of schizophrenia-type illnesses, people dispense with the treatment once they start feeling better because, hey!, they feel better. So protect yourself and your kids and make a good life for them, rather than trying to fix your wife.
Good luck.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:12 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
My mother was schizophrenic and 40+ years after leaving home and countless hours of therapy it still affects me. And I am still angry at my father who did nothing to protect me and my younger siblings.
I know how difficult it is to have someone committed, I had to do it twice for my mother, but I think you should seriously look in to having her committed for a full psych evaluation.
posted by mareli at 11:19 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I know how difficult it is to have someone committed, I had to do it twice for my mother, but I think you should seriously look in to having her committed for a full psych evaluation.
posted by mareli at 11:19 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
A couple can separate, even divorce, and later reconcile. This may be possible if your wife is able to find and accept treatment for the medical, mental, or emotional issues that seem to be manifesting as religious conviction. Your job right now is to make sure your kids have a safe, stable, nurturing home, even if that means separating from your wife. Her parenting choices are increasingly unhinged and damaging to your kids: protect them from her.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:21 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:21 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I grew up with a mentally ill mother, but my mom was very abusive. My mother's behavior in front of my peers and their parents was a constant source of extreme humiliation. My mom was nutty and we were subject to her every whim. It destroyed my childhood. And my early adulthood. My parents were married and my Dad did next to nothing to solve the problem (therapists, marriage counselors - just like you describe.) What we needed was for Mom's illness to be dealt with head-on and publicly acknowledged. She needed medical evaluations and PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION. We needed her to get that help.
My mom never got any serious help. In her craziness she divorced my dad. She never remarried (despite being an attractive woman) and she's had a tough go of it from what I understand. I wouldn't know personally because I haven't spoken to her in over 15 years.
Please don't get divorced and leave your kids in your (ex) wife's custody. I nth every suggestion that you should push this situation and get your wife immediate medical attention. I agree this could be mental illness -or- mental disturbance brought on by medical causes. TAKE A STAND. Get her help. Make allies of friends, family, and clergy to help you help her.
Fuck the stupid therapists you've seen so far. Me, my parents together, and my mom alone saw quite a few therapists during the years I was growing up. Knowing what I know now, I can not believe someone didn't recommend more serious medical attention for my mom and/or they accepted it when she refused more serious treatment. My brother and I were unsafe. My mother was unsafe. She could have been helped, but nobody wanted to take a stand and force the issue.
If you take a stand now and you can not get your wife serious help, then get divorced and seek custody of your children. But try getting her evaluated medically and psychologically first.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:26 AM on December 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
My mom never got any serious help. In her craziness she divorced my dad. She never remarried (despite being an attractive woman) and she's had a tough go of it from what I understand. I wouldn't know personally because I haven't spoken to her in over 15 years.
Please don't get divorced and leave your kids in your (ex) wife's custody. I nth every suggestion that you should push this situation and get your wife immediate medical attention. I agree this could be mental illness -or- mental disturbance brought on by medical causes. TAKE A STAND. Get her help. Make allies of friends, family, and clergy to help you help her.
Fuck the stupid therapists you've seen so far. Me, my parents together, and my mom alone saw quite a few therapists during the years I was growing up. Knowing what I know now, I can not believe someone didn't recommend more serious medical attention for my mom and/or they accepted it when she refused more serious treatment. My brother and I were unsafe. My mother was unsafe. She could have been helped, but nobody wanted to take a stand and force the issue.
If you take a stand now and you can not get your wife serious help, then get divorced and seek custody of your children. But try getting her evaluated medically and psychologically first.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:26 AM on December 6, 2010 [7 favorites]
Document, document, document. In any way you can, short of illegal taping (check the laws in your state for whether it's legal to record someone without their knowledge).
Get out, and save your children, for their sakes, and for yours.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:45 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Get out, and save your children, for their sakes, and for yours.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:45 AM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Staying together for the kids" never, ever works. I would put money on this. With regard to your particular case as described, it sounds like the kids are frightened and confused, relying on you for their only real nurturance. So. Staying together for the kids never, ever works.
posted by scratch at 11:51 AM on December 6, 2010
posted by scratch at 11:51 AM on December 6, 2010
I think you should look into having her committed (where she could get diagnosed, medicated, and have a chance at recovery), and see what that would take. She sounds like she is progressing towards some very scary things including possibly thinking your kids might be better off with god.
posted by meepmeow at 12:29 PM on December 6, 2010
posted by meepmeow at 12:29 PM on December 6, 2010
She definitely sounds unwell. It is difficult to say if this is a consequence of the cancer and chemotherapy, but that wouldn't surprise me. (The latency wouldn't be inconsistent with a spread of cancer to the brain.)
Only an assessment through professionals is going to provide answers.
I second the poster who said that you have a better chance of getting her into treatment now than after you separate, and an unstable and undiagnosed ex-wife could make your life into a living hell. Explore this now, before you pull the trigger on a divorce.
Note that I am not telling you that shouldn't leave -- but explore this first. This behaviour is characteristic of serious mental illness.
I feel for you. You've been through a lot.
posted by rhombus at 12:30 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Only an assessment through professionals is going to provide answers.
I second the poster who said that you have a better chance of getting her into treatment now than after you separate, and an unstable and undiagnosed ex-wife could make your life into a living hell. Explore this now, before you pull the trigger on a divorce.
Note that I am not telling you that shouldn't leave -- but explore this first. This behaviour is characteristic of serious mental illness.
I feel for you. You've been through a lot.
posted by rhombus at 12:30 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Look, I am a card carrying Charismatic Christian who believes that God speaks today, but in my humble opinion your wife has a mental illness and/or a brain tumor. She is not well. Please call and speak with a psychiatrist. In fact if I were you I would not be leaving the kids alone with her.
Yep, that serious.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:51 PM on December 6, 2010 [15 favorites]
Yep, that serious.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:51 PM on December 6, 2010 [15 favorites]
It really sounds like your wife is mentally ill and there is nothing to be done about that if she refuses to get treatment. My mom is mentally ill and one her symptoms is hyper-religiosity. My parents divorced when I was 2 and my brother and I lived with my dad. This was for the best. It wasn't easy by any means (in fact it was soul-crushingly difficult) but the fact that we had a sane, rational parent in charge was so much better than the alternative. Ymmv. Good luck.
posted by bananafish at 1:10 PM on December 6, 2010
posted by bananafish at 1:10 PM on December 6, 2010
I forgot to put this in my original answer, but there is a kind of urgency here, because people with these symptoms can very suddenly take a bad turn. My half-brother was taken by his mother to Phoenix because she felt god wanted them to be there, and then was moved from house to apartment across the state both to avoid the authorities and because each successive apartment suddenly became inhabited by evil spirits. That's how the divorce/mental health hearing/custody battle began. With my half-brother being led around a strange city in a strange country by a woman mumbling about evil spirits.
posted by tehloki at 1:14 PM on December 6, 2010
posted by tehloki at 1:14 PM on December 6, 2010
Just a quick note: while I nth others above who say the kids should remain in that situation, I just caution mentioning divorce to your wife unless you are prepared to actually take those steps.
Not saying you can't think it, just be careful of what you say.
If people are right and your wife has joined the Catholic church, then of course you know divorce is verboten for Catholics. From the sounds of her behaviour, she may react very very negatively to the suggestion of divorce.
I truly don't want to freak you out, but it is something to bear in mind.
posted by LN at 1:20 PM on December 6, 2010
Not saying you can't think it, just be careful of what you say.
If people are right and your wife has joined the Catholic church, then of course you know divorce is verboten for Catholics. From the sounds of her behaviour, she may react very very negatively to the suggestion of divorce.
I truly don't want to freak you out, but it is something to bear in mind.
posted by LN at 1:20 PM on December 6, 2010
Should NOT remain in that situation. Ah, for a three-minute edit window.
posted by LN at 1:22 PM on December 6, 2010
posted by LN at 1:22 PM on December 6, 2010
I value the role of psychotherapists, but I think any therapist who hears that a client who had breast cancer is experiencing what your wife is experiencing, and doesn't at least suggest that your wife get checked just to make sure that there isn't something going on with that cancer returning might not be doing their job as well as they could be.
There is a chance that something wonderful is going on for her - something spiritually transforming - and it might be difficult to convince her that there might be something terribly physically wrong with her that needs to get checked out. But if you can't convince her to go to a psychiatrist - perhaps it might help to get yourself to one, just to discuss the possibility further.
I am so sorry for what your going through.
posted by anitanita at 1:26 PM on December 6, 2010
There is a chance that something wonderful is going on for her - something spiritually transforming - and it might be difficult to convince her that there might be something terribly physically wrong with her that needs to get checked out. But if you can't convince her to go to a psychiatrist - perhaps it might help to get yourself to one, just to discuss the possibility further.
I am so sorry for what your going through.
posted by anitanita at 1:26 PM on December 6, 2010
I am so sorry for what you are going through, and I will keep you and your kids in my (secular) toughts.
Also, I went on and found this article about brains and religiousity - have a look. I would nth all people telling you to call her oncologist.
Best of luck. It's a sad, but brave, post.
posted by Sijeka at 1:43 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, I went on and found this article about brains and religiousity - have a look. I would nth all people telling you to call her oncologist.
Best of luck. It's a sad, but brave, post.
posted by Sijeka at 1:43 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
To add to the pile-on, I've known people who felt as though they had gone through a religious awakening. This doesn't sound like that - this sounds medical. Call her oncologist tomorrow and start there. This isn't normal and you shouldn't wait it out any more.
I agree with some above posters who have suggested that you avoid leaving the kids alone with her. It sounds like her behavior is escalating. It's an awful thought, but if she's truly not in her right mind she may think she's protecting your kids or bringing them closer to god by hurting them, or worse.
Is there a family member they can stay with for a while? Don't worry about upsetting them - nthing the folks who have said they already know. They do, and they're unsettled, and they're clinging to you because they sense your wife is unstable. Your priority is to get them somewhere safe where they can stay while you deal with getting your wife the medical attention she needs, whether that's with an oncologist or a psychiatrist. They should not be around her right now.
My (also secular) thoughts are with you and your kids.
posted by superfluousm at 2:05 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree with some above posters who have suggested that you avoid leaving the kids alone with her. It sounds like her behavior is escalating. It's an awful thought, but if she's truly not in her right mind she may think she's protecting your kids or bringing them closer to god by hurting them, or worse.
Is there a family member they can stay with for a while? Don't worry about upsetting them - nthing the folks who have said they already know. They do, and they're unsettled, and they're clinging to you because they sense your wife is unstable. Your priority is to get them somewhere safe where they can stay while you deal with getting your wife the medical attention she needs, whether that's with an oncologist or a psychiatrist. They should not be around her right now.
My (also secular) thoughts are with you and your kids.
posted by superfluousm at 2:05 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hi, OP. It's me again. Just one more idea...
Is it possible for you to go on vacation with just your kids for even a few days? Can you risk going away by yourself if taking the kids isn't possible?
I think you need some time away from the daily craziness to get some perspective before you take action. I often wondered why no one did anything concrete about my mom, but you know, it did all progress and sneak up on us over the years. As I read and re-read your Ask, I wondered why the medical angle didn't occur to you sooner, but then, I remembered how it can be when one crazy little thing turns into 2 billion crazy things over time. You're so busy putting out fires there is no time to think sanely.
You need space. You need an opportunity away from the madness to assess how significant the changes in your wife are and over what intervals things have escalated. Then you can do research and start talking to medical and legal professionals about options to help her and/or help your family.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 2:07 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is it possible for you to go on vacation with just your kids for even a few days? Can you risk going away by yourself if taking the kids isn't possible?
I think you need some time away from the daily craziness to get some perspective before you take action. I often wondered why no one did anything concrete about my mom, but you know, it did all progress and sneak up on us over the years. As I read and re-read your Ask, I wondered why the medical angle didn't occur to you sooner, but then, I remembered how it can be when one crazy little thing turns into 2 billion crazy things over time. You're so busy putting out fires there is no time to think sanely.
You need space. You need an opportunity away from the madness to assess how significant the changes in your wife are and over what intervals things have escalated. Then you can do research and start talking to medical and legal professionals about options to help her and/or help your family.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 2:07 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am not being flippant: your wife's behaviour is... well into the arena of the mentally unwell.
I would suggest pursuing the route of marriage guidance. Don't sell it as "My god, you're crazy, let's get help". Sell it as "You've made me realise there are things about out marriage we need to discuss and figure out. How about we go to counselling together?"
posted by Decani at 2:22 PM on December 6, 2010
I would suggest pursuing the route of marriage guidance. Don't sell it as "My god, you're crazy, let's get help". Sell it as "You've made me realise there are things about out marriage we need to discuss and figure out. How about we go to counselling together?"
posted by Decani at 2:22 PM on December 6, 2010
"Staying together for the kids" never, ever works. I would put money on this. With regard to your particular case as described, it sounds like the kids are frightened and confused, relying on you for their only real nurturance. So. Staying together for the kids never, ever works.
That's just plain old false. We can only see it when it doesn't work. When it does work, you don't see it. Some high percentage of married people with children have surely thought "fuck this noise" and then thought better of it, because they don't want to disrupt their children's lives. Hell, a significant portion of the institution of marriage IS staying together for the kids, when there are kids involved.
It doesn't work when there is abuse or outright conflict at the dinner table. Of course. But I don't think this situation is there, yet.
I just don't like the encouragement to abandon one's marriage because the partner is ill, mentally or otherwise. Sets a pretty bad example for the kids.
Not to mention the very real possibility that should a divorce occur, the mother would get some sort of custody. Is it really better to ship them off to Mom's every so often, and have them endure an environment that surely would be more scary because Dad isn't around to keep an eye on things?
posted by gjc at 2:35 PM on December 6, 2010
That's just plain old false. We can only see it when it doesn't work. When it does work, you don't see it. Some high percentage of married people with children have surely thought "fuck this noise" and then thought better of it, because they don't want to disrupt their children's lives. Hell, a significant portion of the institution of marriage IS staying together for the kids, when there are kids involved.
It doesn't work when there is abuse or outright conflict at the dinner table. Of course. But I don't think this situation is there, yet.
I just don't like the encouragement to abandon one's marriage because the partner is ill, mentally or otherwise. Sets a pretty bad example for the kids.
Not to mention the very real possibility that should a divorce occur, the mother would get some sort of custody. Is it really better to ship them off to Mom's every so often, and have them endure an environment that surely would be more scary because Dad isn't around to keep an eye on things?
posted by gjc at 2:35 PM on December 6, 2010
In my experience (not personal, observational) she may change back. I've seen a couple of women around her age endure a kind of mental and emotional breakdown lasting a few years. And then they became something like their old selves again. Not entirely, but largely.
Having said that, I don't think staying together for the sake of the kids is a good plan. Parents provide an example; sometimes they need to provide an example by separating.
posted by londongeezer at 2:38 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having said that, I don't think staying together for the sake of the kids is a good plan. Parents provide an example; sometimes they need to provide an example by separating.
posted by londongeezer at 2:38 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
It doesn't work when there is abuse or outright conflict at the dinner table. Of course. But I don't think this situation is there, yet.
Have you read the comments posted by people who grew up in these circumstances? It is AWFUL to grow up with someone whose whims are so tyrannical and erratic, and it affects you, and therefore your ability to have normal relationships, for the rest of your life.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:40 PM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
Have you read the comments posted by people who grew up in these circumstances? It is AWFUL to grow up with someone whose whims are so tyrannical and erratic, and it affects you, and therefore your ability to have normal relationships, for the rest of your life.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:40 PM on December 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hi! I'm another child of a mentally unwell person who is begging you to understand that, sadly, getting away from a sick person may very well be the only way to help your children. Please do not think of staying married as a way to help your children. Please understand that the circumstances you describe sound harmful, scary, and very, very sad for your children.
I am not going to suggest you get divorced: that's something for you to figure out. Plenty of people have given really good advice about helping your wife find better psychiatric help, and I think you should listen to them. It seems like, right now, it's not clear if there is anything you can do to help your wife or if the only real option available is for you to save yourself and your children by running.
Here's my only suggestion: you may want to talk to a lawyer now. If your wife is sick and unwilling to get help, then it's going to be very important for you to try to get custody. Even if you want to help your wife get well, it may be a good idea for you to find out, now, how best to ensure your children's well-being in case of divorce.
You seem like a loving and caring man. You clearly have the best interests of both your wife and your children in mind. I'm sorry you're facing such painful circumstances, and I wish you all the best. Good luck.
posted by meese at 2:56 PM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I am not going to suggest you get divorced: that's something for you to figure out. Plenty of people have given really good advice about helping your wife find better psychiatric help, and I think you should listen to them. It seems like, right now, it's not clear if there is anything you can do to help your wife or if the only real option available is for you to save yourself and your children by running.
Here's my only suggestion: you may want to talk to a lawyer now. If your wife is sick and unwilling to get help, then it's going to be very important for you to try to get custody. Even if you want to help your wife get well, it may be a good idea for you to find out, now, how best to ensure your children's well-being in case of divorce.
You seem like a loving and caring man. You clearly have the best interests of both your wife and your children in mind. I'm sorry you're facing such painful circumstances, and I wish you all the best. Good luck.
posted by meese at 2:56 PM on December 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Not to mention the very real possibility that should a divorce occur, the mother would get some sort of custody. Is it really better to ship them off to Mom's every so often, and have them endure an environment that surely would be more scary because Dad isn't around to keep an eye on things?
Let me add that this sort of reasoning kept my mother married to my very unwell father for years and years. She was terrified of him getting custody, and so she stayed married. Finally, she left. Even though my biological father did get some visitation rights with me at the start, my life improved so, so much the moment he was gone. Having to spend some of your time with a crazy person is not nearly as bad as having to spend your entire life with a crazy person.
posted by meese at 3:01 PM on December 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
Let me add that this sort of reasoning kept my mother married to my very unwell father for years and years. She was terrified of him getting custody, and so she stayed married. Finally, she left. Even though my biological father did get some visitation rights with me at the start, my life improved so, so much the moment he was gone. Having to spend some of your time with a crazy person is not nearly as bad as having to spend your entire life with a crazy person.
posted by meese at 3:01 PM on December 6, 2010 [5 favorites]
It doesn't work when there is abuse or outright conflict at the dinner table. Of course. But I don't think this situation is there, yet.
Wow, I could not disagree more. Between the mother taking away the children's books and toys because of her religious delusions, and her attempts to convince the father of her delusional system (the "You just think I'm crazy because you were sexually abused" stuff is particularly egregious), I would suggest that this situation is much worse than "conflict at the dinner table."
I think the marriage might could be saved if the wife admits that she is experiencing mental illness, seeks treatment, participates actively in the treatment, and has good luck with the treatment (and my hope is that all of that will happen, for everyone's sake).
Failing that, I don't see how the onus is or should be on the OP to go along with the craziness that seems to be making everyone but the wife and her imaginary friends terribly unhappy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:04 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wow, I could not disagree more. Between the mother taking away the children's books and toys because of her religious delusions, and her attempts to convince the father of her delusional system (the "You just think I'm crazy because you were sexually abused" stuff is particularly egregious), I would suggest that this situation is much worse than "conflict at the dinner table."
I think the marriage might could be saved if the wife admits that she is experiencing mental illness, seeks treatment, participates actively in the treatment, and has good luck with the treatment (and my hope is that all of that will happen, for everyone's sake).
Failing that, I don't see how the onus is or should be on the OP to go along with the craziness that seems to be making everyone but the wife and her imaginary friends terribly unhappy.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:04 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your kids are 10 and 12 and this has been going on for more than three years? They're probably wondering why you're still with this crazy person. If I was that age and was dealing with what they're dealing with I would WANT you to leave and take me with you. If I thought you were staying for my benefit I would probably be either angry that you were making me stay with the crazy or guilty that you had to stay for me.
Tl;dr Your kids will probably be relieved to get away from the fanatical nutjob.
posted by TooFewShoes at 5:06 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tl;dr Your kids will probably be relieved to get away from the fanatical nutjob.
posted by TooFewShoes at 5:06 PM on December 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
What a brutal story. My condolences on your situation.
Nthing the mental professional (and legal) help. Also, document everything going on with her therapy and any diagnoses.
If medications work and she becomes more like her old self, great.
If medications don't work and she becomes more unstable, you will need the documentation that she is mentally unstable to help the kids escape her during your divorce.
posted by benzenedream at 1:20 AM on December 7, 2010
Nthing the mental professional (and legal) help. Also, document everything going on with her therapy and any diagnoses.
If medications work and she becomes more like her old self, great.
If medications don't work and she becomes more unstable, you will need the documentation that she is mentally unstable to help the kids escape her during your divorce.
posted by benzenedream at 1:20 AM on December 7, 2010
Have you read the comments posted by people who grew up in these circumstances? It is AWFUL to grow up with someone whose whims are so tyrannical and erratic, and it affects you, and therefore your ability to have normal relationships, for the rest of your life.
This is absolutely true. I grew up with a parent who had mysterious and vicious attacks of ba
d temper, often set off by things like cutting bread wrongly, or accidentally spilling a drink. It has taken years and years to get to the point where I can handle someone being angry with me without either shrinking away or being convinced that they really really hate me rather than are just a bit annoyed about something I did.
It's not on the same level as your wife, but at the same age as your kids I behaved in exactly the same way - gravitating toward my mother, not wanting to be left alone. Your children are soon to be young adults and they aren't being allowed to make the choices they should be able to make. This is going to be immensely damaging for them and maybe for your relationship with them - they may see it as you not being able to protect them. Whether you should divorce I don't know, but I can tell you that I spent the ten years until I could leave home for good wishing that mine would so I'd never have to see the crazy parent again.
posted by mippy at 5:01 AM on December 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is absolutely true. I grew up with a parent who had mysterious and vicious attacks of ba
d temper, often set off by things like cutting bread wrongly, or accidentally spilling a drink. It has taken years and years to get to the point where I can handle someone being angry with me without either shrinking away or being convinced that they really really hate me rather than are just a bit annoyed about something I did.
It's not on the same level as your wife, but at the same age as your kids I behaved in exactly the same way - gravitating toward my mother, not wanting to be left alone. Your children are soon to be young adults and they aren't being allowed to make the choices they should be able to make. This is going to be immensely damaging for them and maybe for your relationship with them - they may see it as you not being able to protect them. Whether you should divorce I don't know, but I can tell you that I spent the ten years until I could leave home for good wishing that mine would so I'd never have to see the crazy parent again.
posted by mippy at 5:01 AM on December 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
It doesn't work when there is abuse or outright conflict at the dinner table. Of course. But I don't think this situation is there, yet.
She is inventing stories of child sexual* abuse. So far, she's only included her husband in this false history, and has only included him as a victim. This has barreled past "conflict at the dinner table" into "potential lifelong nightmare" territory.
*I acknowledge the OP didn't say sexual abuse per se, but I assert that sexual abuse is implicit in the phrase "abused altar boy".
posted by endless_forms at 7:46 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
She is inventing stories of child sexual* abuse. So far, she's only included her husband in this false history, and has only included him as a victim. This has barreled past "conflict at the dinner table" into "potential lifelong nightmare" territory.
*I acknowledge the OP didn't say sexual abuse per se, but I assert that sexual abuse is implicit in the phrase "abused altar boy".
posted by endless_forms at 7:46 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
a couple people mentioned metastasis. i agree that it's worth considering, as it's not uncommon for breast cancer to metastasize to the brain. people keep saying therapists, but it sounds like she really needs to see a medical doctor. the word therapist, as far as i can tell, is often used to describe people with varying levels of training. some are PhDs, some have masters degrees, psychiatrists are MDs. depending on who you saw, they really may not be equipped to recognize if this is a true neurological problem. please take her to a doctor, and point out the changes in her behavior SINCE having cancer and chemo. the two may be unrelated, but . . . isn't it worth checking into as thoroughly as possible?
posted by lblair at 6:04 PM on December 8, 2010
posted by lblair at 6:04 PM on December 8, 2010
What lblair said. If, for instance, she had something going on in her frontal lobe that could very well affect her behavior.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:23 PM on December 8, 2010
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:23 PM on December 8, 2010
Nthing the folks who said Get those kids outta there! Please, please do this.
I grew up with an amazing mom and a seriously psycho dad. Emotionally volatile, mentally ill but refused therapy, unpredictable and somewhat of a religious zealot. Like many others in similar situations described above, I begged my mom to get us out. She hung in there - trying strategy after strategy, in the hopes that my dad would come back around to the way he used to be. Meanwhile, he kept getting crazier. I was so confused - my mom was a strong lady. Smart. Caring. Reasonable. The kind of parent that drew all the right kind of boundaries, in all other facets of family life. I didn't get why we had to stay in this situation that seemed so harmful. Like Mareli, I'm still reconciling how to get past the anger at my sane parent - the one who should have known better, the one who could have saved us. I kind of got the "stand up for yourself, no one has the right to treat you poorly...except your own family" message.
For all the reasons above, GJC, I couldn't disagree more with your statement:
I just don't like the encouragement to abandon one's marriage because the partner is ill, mentally or otherwise. Sets a pretty bad example for the kids.
This is the exact kind of flawed thinking that trapped my mom and all of us kids in that unhealthy home environment for years. A mentally ill person is not benefiting by you sticking it out. And you're not doing yourself (or your loved ones) any favors by remaining in a toxic environment. "Abandoning" my dad was the only thing that *finally* flipped a switch for him and got him to change his behavior. I'm almost thirty, and it's taken me this long to truly accept that if a situation is unhealthy for me, I'm okay to request different behavior, try to change the situation, and most importantly - that's it's more than okay to remove myself from entirely from a situation that's harmful. What better lesson could you teach your kids? You can set an example. Now.
What a tough situation. I send you strength and hope and courage.
posted by red_rabbit at 11:53 PM on December 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I grew up with an amazing mom and a seriously psycho dad. Emotionally volatile, mentally ill but refused therapy, unpredictable and somewhat of a religious zealot. Like many others in similar situations described above, I begged my mom to get us out. She hung in there - trying strategy after strategy, in the hopes that my dad would come back around to the way he used to be. Meanwhile, he kept getting crazier. I was so confused - my mom was a strong lady. Smart. Caring. Reasonable. The kind of parent that drew all the right kind of boundaries, in all other facets of family life. I didn't get why we had to stay in this situation that seemed so harmful. Like Mareli, I'm still reconciling how to get past the anger at my sane parent - the one who should have known better, the one who could have saved us. I kind of got the "stand up for yourself, no one has the right to treat you poorly...except your own family" message.
For all the reasons above, GJC, I couldn't disagree more with your statement:
I just don't like the encouragement to abandon one's marriage because the partner is ill, mentally or otherwise. Sets a pretty bad example for the kids.
This is the exact kind of flawed thinking that trapped my mom and all of us kids in that unhealthy home environment for years. A mentally ill person is not benefiting by you sticking it out. And you're not doing yourself (or your loved ones) any favors by remaining in a toxic environment. "Abandoning" my dad was the only thing that *finally* flipped a switch for him and got him to change his behavior. I'm almost thirty, and it's taken me this long to truly accept that if a situation is unhealthy for me, I'm okay to request different behavior, try to change the situation, and most importantly - that's it's more than okay to remove myself from entirely from a situation that's harmful. What better lesson could you teach your kids? You can set an example. Now.
What a tough situation. I send you strength and hope and courage.
posted by red_rabbit at 11:53 PM on December 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Apoch at 9:45 AM on December 6, 2010 [36 favorites]