Does this have any hope of not ending in tragedy?
December 2, 2010 9:00 AM Subscribe
Star cross'd lovers facing another hurdle - can I convince him it's worth it to keep trying?
I'm 27, an engineer with a graduate degree, divorcee of 2.5 years and have plenty of dating experience since then. I have a good sense of what I want in life and relationships. R's 29, a military materials technician who went on tour to Afghanistan for 7 months a few years ago, been in the army since 22. Hasn't got a lot of dating experience - didn't date in HS, longest relationship was 3 months and that was last year - not enough time for him and school. His military career has otherwise prevented him from trying to have lasting relationships of any kind because of his moving so much.
Our relationship thus far has been a long story of star cross'd lovers - a month of casual dating before we took a break for 2 months and then became long-distance for 4 because of both our work assignments and a scheduled holiday of his. It was passionate when together but he's not very communicative otherwise (tends to be reserved with all but those closest to him), which led to him not feeling very close to me and he was a bit depressed as well, so we took another break for the last month while he traveled. I thought we were going to break up when we finally met again in person because of his seeming lack of interest, but he wanted to give the relationship a try. He said this was the first time he's ever had someone really want to be in a relationship with him, no matter what life threw in our way. I told him he hurt me and would have to regain my trust, but I was willing to try again.
So we've had a very good past 6 weeks of real in-person dating. I'm very happy with the relationship. He's a good boyfriend, eager to learn and spend time with me. We've got a lot in common, feels like we're cut from the same cloth and when we're together it's a pretty natural fit. I like his friends, family, he fits in well with mine. Great sex life. Things are progressing well and I feel that we're growing closer as we get to know eachother. He seems to feel the same way, that it's slowly but surely coming along.
Last week he found out he's getting reposted next summer, to the next province over. We thought he'd be here a few more years. It is a bit soon to make the call based on what's been a somewhat rocky past and a short but sweet courtship recently. I thought about it, and said if things were going well between us I'd move out there for him, get my own apartment and find another job. I've got savings and a decent amount of luck at finding myself good jobs, I'm ok with making new friends again because this isn't the first time I'd start over. I'm optimistic, prepared, and cautious about not being dependent on him if I go. I like him enough that this price of admission is worth continuing the ride. And he seemed good with this, just smiled and kissed me.
Last night he found out he's got a training program for 50 days from mid-Jan to March, and was given a few options for where to do it, some nearby and some far away and remote (no cell or internet access). He was thinking of picking a remote one, for the adventure. That hurt, that he'd actively choose to break off contact again for a few months right when we're still trying to get to know eachother and when I'm trying to make the decision to leave all behind for him. It feels selfish of him. I told him I need him to pick the closer one, or else I think we will have to break up, because I can't follow someone in good faith who gives little thought to my welfare in return.
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me. I said he'd learn with time. I know it's because he's not used to thinking like he's part of a couple, and the military life's more familiar to him. No relationship is without its rough times though, particularly for a military man, and it requires adaptability and compromise on both sides.
I left him to think about it last night and he'll talk to me tonight. I'm in a lot of turmoil at this point. I feel both validated and guilty for issuing an ultimatum like that. I don't feel this is insurmountable, but I can't speak for him. Part of me simply wants to withdraw and see whether he's willing to bridge the gap here on his own, or if he's chickening out, whether because he doesn't feel strongly enough about me yet or whether he doubts his own capacity to commit despite inexperience. And part of me wants to just keep going, try to work on things and let come what may, despite the obstacles looming in the future.
TL;DR - We've been together a relatively short time but the relationship seems great thus far. Times are going to be difficult ahead and I need him to either show more commitment to me or call it quits. Talking tonight.
So, mefites, please give me your advice and insight on how to proceed with talks this evening, questions I should be asking both him and myself, how I should have approached things with this manly-man type of guy instead. Thanks in advance.
I'm 27, an engineer with a graduate degree, divorcee of 2.5 years and have plenty of dating experience since then. I have a good sense of what I want in life and relationships. R's 29, a military materials technician who went on tour to Afghanistan for 7 months a few years ago, been in the army since 22. Hasn't got a lot of dating experience - didn't date in HS, longest relationship was 3 months and that was last year - not enough time for him and school. His military career has otherwise prevented him from trying to have lasting relationships of any kind because of his moving so much.
Our relationship thus far has been a long story of star cross'd lovers - a month of casual dating before we took a break for 2 months and then became long-distance for 4 because of both our work assignments and a scheduled holiday of his. It was passionate when together but he's not very communicative otherwise (tends to be reserved with all but those closest to him), which led to him not feeling very close to me and he was a bit depressed as well, so we took another break for the last month while he traveled. I thought we were going to break up when we finally met again in person because of his seeming lack of interest, but he wanted to give the relationship a try. He said this was the first time he's ever had someone really want to be in a relationship with him, no matter what life threw in our way. I told him he hurt me and would have to regain my trust, but I was willing to try again.
So we've had a very good past 6 weeks of real in-person dating. I'm very happy with the relationship. He's a good boyfriend, eager to learn and spend time with me. We've got a lot in common, feels like we're cut from the same cloth and when we're together it's a pretty natural fit. I like his friends, family, he fits in well with mine. Great sex life. Things are progressing well and I feel that we're growing closer as we get to know eachother. He seems to feel the same way, that it's slowly but surely coming along.
Last week he found out he's getting reposted next summer, to the next province over. We thought he'd be here a few more years. It is a bit soon to make the call based on what's been a somewhat rocky past and a short but sweet courtship recently. I thought about it, and said if things were going well between us I'd move out there for him, get my own apartment and find another job. I've got savings and a decent amount of luck at finding myself good jobs, I'm ok with making new friends again because this isn't the first time I'd start over. I'm optimistic, prepared, and cautious about not being dependent on him if I go. I like him enough that this price of admission is worth continuing the ride. And he seemed good with this, just smiled and kissed me.
Last night he found out he's got a training program for 50 days from mid-Jan to March, and was given a few options for where to do it, some nearby and some far away and remote (no cell or internet access). He was thinking of picking a remote one, for the adventure. That hurt, that he'd actively choose to break off contact again for a few months right when we're still trying to get to know eachother and when I'm trying to make the decision to leave all behind for him. It feels selfish of him. I told him I need him to pick the closer one, or else I think we will have to break up, because I can't follow someone in good faith who gives little thought to my welfare in return.
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me. I said he'd learn with time. I know it's because he's not used to thinking like he's part of a couple, and the military life's more familiar to him. No relationship is without its rough times though, particularly for a military man, and it requires adaptability and compromise on both sides.
I left him to think about it last night and he'll talk to me tonight. I'm in a lot of turmoil at this point. I feel both validated and guilty for issuing an ultimatum like that. I don't feel this is insurmountable, but I can't speak for him. Part of me simply wants to withdraw and see whether he's willing to bridge the gap here on his own, or if he's chickening out, whether because he doesn't feel strongly enough about me yet or whether he doubts his own capacity to commit despite inexperience. And part of me wants to just keep going, try to work on things and let come what may, despite the obstacles looming in the future.
TL;DR - We've been together a relatively short time but the relationship seems great thus far. Times are going to be difficult ahead and I need him to either show more commitment to me or call it quits. Talking tonight.
So, mefites, please give me your advice and insight on how to proceed with talks this evening, questions I should be asking both him and myself, how I should have approached things with this manly-man type of guy instead. Thanks in advance.
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me. I said he'd learn with time.
No, he won't learn with time. If you want to keep getting hurt over and over hoping that he won't be withholding, then that's your decision to make. On the outside though, it looks like he doesn't like you as much as you wish he would.
You're a young, smart, well-educated woman who makes good money. Get out there and put your eggs in more baskets.
posted by anniecat at 9:11 AM on December 2, 2010 [6 favorites]
No, he won't learn with time. If you want to keep getting hurt over and over hoping that he won't be withholding, then that's your decision to make. On the outside though, it looks like he doesn't like you as much as you wish he would.
You're a young, smart, well-educated woman who makes good money. Get out there and put your eggs in more baskets.
posted by anniecat at 9:11 AM on December 2, 2010 [6 favorites]
So, you've been together less than a year, and there have already been *2* "breaks". And now he's thinking of going somewhere he won't have contact with you for several months? It doesn't seem like he's as invested in this relationship as you, and yet, you've practically got your bags packed to follow him to the next spot. It's not fair to hold him to your standard- "That hurt, that he'd actively choose to break off contact again for a few months ...when I'm trying to make the decision to leave all behind for him". Did he ask you to move for him? Kinda sounds like you came up with that idea all by yourself. It seems like you're building up this relationship in your mind and are then disappointed by the reality of it. Time to take off the rose-colored glasses and evaluate what the relationship has been and is now, not what it could be.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:13 AM on December 2, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:13 AM on December 2, 2010 [10 favorites]
He was thinking of picking a remote one, for the adventure.
You and he want very different things. This is not the right time for you two to be together. I don't blame you one bit for making the ultimatum.
posted by amicamentis at 9:14 AM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
You and he want very different things. This is not the right time for you two to be together. I don't blame you one bit for making the ultimatum.
posted by amicamentis at 9:14 AM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm assuming people, especially in these trying times, don't stay in the armed forces for seven years unless they both enjoy the challenges and hardship and intend to make a long-term go of it.
If you're not into the siren call of big-A Adventure, physical risk, and the like, you should perhaps consider dating guys who aren't making a career of seeking those things. It seems like it would be tough on your well-being.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:15 AM on December 2, 2010
If you're not into the siren call of big-A Adventure, physical risk, and the like, you should perhaps consider dating guys who aren't making a career of seeking those things. It seems like it would be tough on your well-being.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 9:15 AM on December 2, 2010
And part of me wants to just keep going, try to work on things and let come what may, despite the obstacles looming in the future.
And do you realize that he is the one creating some of these obstacles? Please think about that.
posted by amicamentis at 9:15 AM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
And do you realize that he is the one creating some of these obstacles? Please think about that.
posted by amicamentis at 9:15 AM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me.
He knows himself better than you do. He has told you the answer and you are not listening.
posted by emilyw at 9:17 AM on December 2, 2010 [20 favorites]
He knows himself better than you do. He has told you the answer and you are not listening.
posted by emilyw at 9:17 AM on December 2, 2010 [20 favorites]
Best answer: It seems to me like your BF is just really clueless about being in a relationship. You said yourself that he's not used to thinking like a couple. I'd give him the benefit of doubt.
Issuing the ultimatum might not have been the most tactful way of communicating with him. Instead of "You hurt me, think of *Us* or we're breaking up." try "It hurt me that you would consider training in a place where you're unreachable when you have the option to be near me. It's important to me that you stay close so that we can work on our relationship."
I grew up as a US Army kid, my dad had to leave for training a lot and this was back before cell phones and internet. We were lucky if he went to a place where he could call us once a day on a pay phone for 10 minutes, usually it was more like once a week. A lot of the time he was in a classified location; we weren't allowed to know where he was and he wasn't allowed to contact us.
My point is that if you see yourself having a future with him you need to take his career into consideration. Yes, this time he does have a choice and obviously you want him to choose you. If he's ready to get serious he should choose you. Next time though, he might not have the choice. Are you going to be okay with moving to a new place for him and then three months later have him disappear for two months? There were times my mom was basically a single parent, but she knew what she was getting into when my dad joined up. Are you sure you know what you're getting into?
posted by TooFewShoes at 9:20 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Issuing the ultimatum might not have been the most tactful way of communicating with him. Instead of "You hurt me, think of *Us* or we're breaking up." try "It hurt me that you would consider training in a place where you're unreachable when you have the option to be near me. It's important to me that you stay close so that we can work on our relationship."
I grew up as a US Army kid, my dad had to leave for training a lot and this was back before cell phones and internet. We were lucky if he went to a place where he could call us once a day on a pay phone for 10 minutes, usually it was more like once a week. A lot of the time he was in a classified location; we weren't allowed to know where he was and he wasn't allowed to contact us.
My point is that if you see yourself having a future with him you need to take his career into consideration. Yes, this time he does have a choice and obviously you want him to choose you. If he's ready to get serious he should choose you. Next time though, he might not have the choice. Are you going to be okay with moving to a new place for him and then three months later have him disappear for two months? There were times my mom was basically a single parent, but she knew what she was getting into when my dad joined up. Are you sure you know what you're getting into?
posted by TooFewShoes at 9:20 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
whether because he doesn't feel strongly enough about me yet or whether he doubts his own capacity to commit despite inexperience.
No one ever "doubts their own capacity to commit". If he felt stronger for you, he'd make it happen, regardless of obstacles. He's being a total wuss, trying to let you down gently so that he doesn't have to deal with the emotion (from both parties) that will inevitably follow.
posted by Melismata at 9:20 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
No one ever "doubts their own capacity to commit". If he felt stronger for you, he'd make it happen, regardless of obstacles. He's being a total wuss, trying to let you down gently so that he doesn't have to deal with the emotion (from both parties) that will inevitably follow.
posted by Melismata at 9:20 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
...I think we will have to break up...
By which you mean you will have to break up with him. Which is the right thing to do.
posted by griphus at 9:27 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
By which you mean you will have to break up with him. Which is the right thing to do.
posted by griphus at 9:27 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
longest relationship was 3 months
Check your math. His longest relationship has been 7 years with the Army. He's a soldier. That's his relationship. You've finished second in this race. He's eager to jump at training far away from home. You're from a country that doesn't require military service from its citizens. So, he's a volunteer. Not only did he volunteer, he liked it. If he's put in 7 years already, don't count on him changing a thing.
If you like the uniform, maybe you can meet an equally hot boy in the RCMP. Or the Coast Guard.
posted by phoebus at 9:29 AM on December 2, 2010 [8 favorites]
Check your math. His longest relationship has been 7 years with the Army. He's a soldier. That's his relationship. You've finished second in this race. He's eager to jump at training far away from home. You're from a country that doesn't require military service from its citizens. So, he's a volunteer. Not only did he volunteer, he liked it. If he's put in 7 years already, don't count on him changing a thing.
If you like the uniform, maybe you can meet an equally hot boy in the RCMP. Or the Coast Guard.
posted by phoebus at 9:29 AM on December 2, 2010 [8 favorites]
Star cross'd lovers facing another hurdle - can I convince him it's worth it to keep trying?
You could possibly convince him, but why would you want to? You deserve someone who feels the same way you do about the relationship.
posted by nomadicink at 9:39 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
You could possibly convince him, but why would you want to? You deserve someone who feels the same way you do about the relationship.
posted by nomadicink at 9:39 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
a) I don't know if this dude is as into the narrative of this relationship as being very important and dramatic as you are. Could he be trying to let you down easy?
b) Being married to a soldier is HARD. You spend a lot of time alone, because he's off training, or deployed. You spend a lot of time moving from place to place. You are the support person. Your friendships and career come in second place. A lot of the time, your relationship with your partner has to come in second place.
Don't move for this guy until you know him much, much better and your relationship with him is much, much more committed. It's not worth the grief.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:41 AM on December 2, 2010
b) Being married to a soldier is HARD. You spend a lot of time alone, because he's off training, or deployed. You spend a lot of time moving from place to place. You are the support person. Your friendships and career come in second place. A lot of the time, your relationship with your partner has to come in second place.
Don't move for this guy until you know him much, much better and your relationship with him is much, much more committed. It's not worth the grief.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:41 AM on December 2, 2010
He said this was the first time he's ever had someone really want to be in a relationship with him
Not good enough. If he'd said you were the first person he really wanted to be in a relationship with, then it'd be different.
Your time together has been too sporadic, so it's been very honeymoonish, especially the last 6 weeks. Regardless of the other circumstances I don't believe you could possibly know enough about him to pull up stakes and move in order to be with him.
There will be better men out there for you, trust me on this one. So you don't have to make this one into something he's not, i.e., boyfriend/husband material. Yes, you've put some effort into the relationship, but not too much to walk away. So, walk. You won't regret it in the long run.
When you encounter real commitment and character in a man, you'll know it, and it doesn't look anything like this.
Best of luck to you.
posted by sister nunchaku of love and mercy at 9:45 AM on December 2, 2010 [10 favorites]
Not good enough. If he'd said you were the first person he really wanted to be in a relationship with, then it'd be different.
Your time together has been too sporadic, so it's been very honeymoonish, especially the last 6 weeks. Regardless of the other circumstances I don't believe you could possibly know enough about him to pull up stakes and move in order to be with him.
There will be better men out there for you, trust me on this one. So you don't have to make this one into something he's not, i.e., boyfriend/husband material. Yes, you've put some effort into the relationship, but not too much to walk away. So, walk. You won't regret it in the long run.
When you encounter real commitment and character in a man, you'll know it, and it doesn't look anything like this.
Best of luck to you.
posted by sister nunchaku of love and mercy at 9:45 AM on December 2, 2010 [10 favorites]
To you the stars are "cross'd". For him, they're simply showing him the way forward.
Let him go, and move on. It'll be easier for you that way. For him, he's going to do what he wants, regardless.
posted by Citrus at 9:51 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Let him go, and move on. It'll be easier for you that way. For him, he's going to do what he wants, regardless.
posted by Citrus at 9:51 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me.
Believe what people tell you about themselves.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 9:57 AM on December 2, 2010 [12 favorites]
Believe what people tell you about themselves.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 9:57 AM on December 2, 2010 [12 favorites]
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me.
When he tells you something about himself, believe it.
posted by crankylex at 9:59 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
When he tells you something about himself, believe it.
posted by crankylex at 9:59 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Times are going to be difficult ahead and I need him to either show more commitment to me or call it quits.
You answered your own question right there. If you two aren't on the same page commitment-wise, it's time to move on, not to keep trying to make it work.
posted by orange swan at 10:00 AM on December 2, 2010
You answered your own question right there. If you two aren't on the same page commitment-wise, it's time to move on, not to keep trying to make it work.
posted by orange swan at 10:00 AM on December 2, 2010
Also... your word choices give me a sense of you not seeing this relationship as the casual one it probably is to your boyfriend. "Star crossed lovers"? "Does this have any hope of not ending in tragedy"? The expression "star crossed lovers" refers to lovers torn apart by forces beyond their control, such as in the case of Romeo and Juliet, whose respective families were sworn enemies. This guy has chosen a career that will mean tours of duty in far-flung postings, and he's choosing the adventure of one locale rather than another that will mean the two of you can be together more often. And a break up is never a tragedy. It can certainly be hurtful and bitterly disappointing, but it's not tragic. You're just two people who don't want the same things from each other.
Dial back your rhetoric and your expectations, and think about this in realistic, down-to-earth terms.
posted by orange swan at 10:10 AM on December 2, 2010 [12 favorites]
Dial back your rhetoric and your expectations, and think about this in realistic, down-to-earth terms.
posted by orange swan at 10:10 AM on December 2, 2010 [12 favorites]
"He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me" does not equal "He's sorry he made this mistake and he wants to be with you." It means "prepare for more of the same." There may be a reason he's chosen this life and has not had serious relationships.
A month of casual dating, 4 months of long distance dating, two breaks, and six weeks of happiness seems a very slender basis to uproot your life when your fella hasn't even asked you to and has, in fact, indicated that he'd be fine on an adventure away from you.
posted by *s at 10:11 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
A month of casual dating, 4 months of long distance dating, two breaks, and six weeks of happiness seems a very slender basis to uproot your life when your fella hasn't even asked you to and has, in fact, indicated that he'd be fine on an adventure away from you.
posted by *s at 10:11 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The military commitment is really, really REALLY important in this decision. You are OK with looking for new work & meeting new friends in a new place. Will that be the case next time? And the time after that? I have a friend in the military, and they move regularly. It has a *huge* impact on what she can reasonably expect to do work-wise. As you're considering questions of love and commitment and risk, take a few minutes to also consider how a lifestyle that involves regular uprooting factors into your professional expectations for the future.
posted by Ys at 10:27 AM on December 2, 2010
posted by Ys at 10:27 AM on December 2, 2010
When he told you he was going to go to the distant one for the adventure, what was actually happening was that he was laying the groundwork for the dumping that was going to happen once he was far away.
He said, "I am going far away from you for an extended period of time." He said, "I'm not going to stop hurting you." He is beginning the process of trying to dissuade you from making any commitments to him because he isn't nearly as invested in this as you are, and he probably recognizes that.
You're both talking and thinking in terms of "we" and "us," and I would bet a small amount of money that he is not. There is no we, there is no us, and without that sense, then no, your relationship isn't going to overcome obstacles. I've often said that a relationship will only work well if you're a team, if you're both rowing in the same direction. To extend the metaphor a little, this is not a question of rowing in any direction at all - you're the only one doing any rowing, and he's lounging in an inner tube tied to the boat, trailing behind.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:32 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
He said, "I am going far away from you for an extended period of time." He said, "I'm not going to stop hurting you." He is beginning the process of trying to dissuade you from making any commitments to him because he isn't nearly as invested in this as you are, and he probably recognizes that.
You're both talking and thinking in terms of "we" and "us," and I would bet a small amount of money that he is not. There is no we, there is no us, and without that sense, then no, your relationship isn't going to overcome obstacles. I've often said that a relationship will only work well if you're a team, if you're both rowing in the same direction. To extend the metaphor a little, this is not a question of rowing in any direction at all - you're the only one doing any rowing, and he's lounging in an inner tube tied to the boat, trailing behind.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:32 AM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know this sounds harsh, but honestly, you are chasing a guy who doesn't really care about you. A few weeks together and you are ready to drop anything and go anywhere--and you haven't been asked to do so. You are not star-crossed lovers--nothing prevents him from making other choices. A lot of this "romance" is your fantasy. If you have to do 100% of the work to make things happen in your relationship, it's not a relationship.
posted by uans at 10:35 AM on December 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by uans at 10:35 AM on December 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
he's not used to thinking like he's part of a couple
Being part of a couple doesn't require brain re-programing. You either want to be with someone/spend time with someone or you don't. Quite simple.
posted by Neekee at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Being part of a couple doesn't require brain re-programing. You either want to be with someone/spend time with someone or you don't. Quite simple.
posted by Neekee at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me.
Once again: When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time!
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:55 AM on December 2, 2010
Once again: When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time!
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:55 AM on December 2, 2010
I think the best course of action is to relegate him to the friend zone. You can see eachother n hang out while hes in town, but being as his longest ever realtionship has been 3 months and it appears that he's been taking a break from you every 2 months, he's not showing an interest in any committed relationship.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:56 AM on December 2, 2010
posted by WeekendJen at 10:56 AM on December 2, 2010
Sorry. Posted before reading crankylex's comment. But it seems worth repeating.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:56 AM on December 2, 2010
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:56 AM on December 2, 2010
Plus, "star crossed" love really should be kept in books, plays, lifetime movies, etc. In real life, it only "works" during mid adolescence. After that, it only serves to hurt/scar you and keep you away from a real, adult relationship.
posted by Neekee at 11:18 AM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Neekee at 11:18 AM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Ok, I'll give you the military mindset POV.
You two aren't married, but we may as well approach this relationship from that mindset as it's a relationship nonetheless... I've seen many MANY MANY married couples in my time in the service. There are those that make it through all the deployments, moves, and times away from home - and there are those that don't.
The single factor that determines the long term survivability of the relationship is quite frankly how strong the non-military spouse is. Hear me out here, as there's basically two types of spouse:
These are my personal observations over YEARS in the military. There are obviously always going to be exceptions.
1) Independent, strong-willed, no nonsense, schedule-driven, and doesn't have a problem spending time on their own. Understands that more often than not, the military comes first. Understands that orders are orders, and you and your family are going to go where the orders say (there IS a little leeway there from time to time, but it's rare - perhaps this time when he DOES have a choice is one of those opportunities he doesn't realize he should take advantage of). Military spouses accept that keeping up the home front is up to them, and by and large they'll have no support from their deployed spouse. You will likely have to give up your career unless it's something you can always do either remotely or can easily find employ in your field wherever you go.
Then there's type #2) Falls apart as soon as the military member leaves town. Buys a new car without discussing it. Manages to find a way to fight with the military member on a satellite phone every night about every minutia of events going on back home. Can't manage the home-front on their own. Can't accept being alone, and is always suspicious and anxious when they don't hear from the military member. Low self-esteem more often than not. Also a high prevalence of insecurity.
The couples involved in a #2 scenario don't last very long. Not very long at all. I've seen it more times than I can count.
Sooooo, with that in mind - which scenario suits you best? Are you willing to make the sacrifices? Because in the long run - beyond this little 50 day training stint - YOU'RE going to be the one holding down the home-front. You'll be the one that gets more used to having him gone than having him around - but the time you DO spend together ends up being more special because of the absences.
You ready for that?
posted by matty at 11:33 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
You two aren't married, but we may as well approach this relationship from that mindset as it's a relationship nonetheless... I've seen many MANY MANY married couples in my time in the service. There are those that make it through all the deployments, moves, and times away from home - and there are those that don't.
The single factor that determines the long term survivability of the relationship is quite frankly how strong the non-military spouse is. Hear me out here, as there's basically two types of spouse:
These are my personal observations over YEARS in the military. There are obviously always going to be exceptions.
1) Independent, strong-willed, no nonsense, schedule-driven, and doesn't have a problem spending time on their own. Understands that more often than not, the military comes first. Understands that orders are orders, and you and your family are going to go where the orders say (there IS a little leeway there from time to time, but it's rare - perhaps this time when he DOES have a choice is one of those opportunities he doesn't realize he should take advantage of). Military spouses accept that keeping up the home front is up to them, and by and large they'll have no support from their deployed spouse. You will likely have to give up your career unless it's something you can always do either remotely or can easily find employ in your field wherever you go.
Then there's type #2) Falls apart as soon as the military member leaves town. Buys a new car without discussing it. Manages to find a way to fight with the military member on a satellite phone every night about every minutia of events going on back home. Can't manage the home-front on their own. Can't accept being alone, and is always suspicious and anxious when they don't hear from the military member. Low self-esteem more often than not. Also a high prevalence of insecurity.
The couples involved in a #2 scenario don't last very long. Not very long at all. I've seen it more times than I can count.
Sooooo, with that in mind - which scenario suits you best? Are you willing to make the sacrifices? Because in the long run - beyond this little 50 day training stint - YOU'RE going to be the one holding down the home-front. You'll be the one that gets more used to having him gone than having him around - but the time you DO spend together ends up being more special because of the absences.
You ready for that?
posted by matty at 11:33 AM on December 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I disagree with most of the people in this post. I would be open-minded and see what he has to say tonight. It is possible that he wants to change, that he can, and that it might take a bit of time to begin to orient himself toward a relationship (and the military) as opposed to just the military.
I thought Matty has a wise response, too... you have to be realistic about the sort of compromises a life with a military man might entail. If you`re someone who wants to be around the person you love all the time, it may be practical to say good-bye to this man.
You know, the only thing in your post that made me nervous for you was this line:
He said this was the first time he's ever had someone really want to be in a relationship with him, no matter what life threw in our way.
Does that mean, also, that he also really wants to be with you, or does he just want to be with you because you are the first person who wants to be with him?
When he said that he was afraid he would continue to make mistakes and keep hurting you, it really might be sincere, and you really may be the first person to be patient with him, to love him (even with his love of the military) and with your wisdom about relationships (how they can all be hard) and your faith in him, it could work out.
Listen to him tonight, and try to listen without a lot of your desire for the answer you want getting in the way. Listen to him with the ears of the smartest version of yourself, the one that truly understands other humans and the world.
posted by PersonAndSalt at 11:55 AM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
I thought Matty has a wise response, too... you have to be realistic about the sort of compromises a life with a military man might entail. If you`re someone who wants to be around the person you love all the time, it may be practical to say good-bye to this man.
You know, the only thing in your post that made me nervous for you was this line:
He said this was the first time he's ever had someone really want to be in a relationship with him, no matter what life threw in our way.
Does that mean, also, that he also really wants to be with you, or does he just want to be with you because you are the first person who wants to be with him?
When he said that he was afraid he would continue to make mistakes and keep hurting you, it really might be sincere, and you really may be the first person to be patient with him, to love him (even with his love of the military) and with your wisdom about relationships (how they can all be hard) and your faith in him, it could work out.
Listen to him tonight, and try to listen without a lot of your desire for the answer you want getting in the way. Listen to him with the ears of the smartest version of yourself, the one that truly understands other humans and the world.
posted by PersonAndSalt at 11:55 AM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I knew what I was in for regarding a future with a military man. I carefully looked into what kind of woman tends to survive it, and I fit the bill. I'm good with the idea of relocating every few years, being on my own a fair chunk of the time, I'm a person who makes friends wherever I go and I have a good career that lets me have flexibility. I don't fall to pieces easily, I don't put up with nonsense. I'm prepared to go where he goes, whenever possible.
When we were in a LDR, I was perfectly fine on my own, seeing him whenever we had the chance. He was the one to feel like we weren't close enough during that first separation, this with his best friend getting married and moving away after 4 years of best-friend-dom, he was lonely. He doesn't seem to understand the long-term consequences of wanting to have a relationship and still be in the army, hasn't done this before. He just knows that we have a lot of fun together. In some ways he's very mature, and yet in others he's still got a long ways to go, which is proving unexpected.
I reacted too strongly to this situation, and it scared him. I think it requires some discussion that yes my feelings were hurt, but it's not something to run away from. I'm willing to forgive him for hurting me unintentionally, so long as he's ok with talking about it a bit to get over it. It should never be "my way or the high way" - he can make decisions for himself, I would just like to be considered during the decision-making process.
posted by lizbunny at 12:34 PM on December 2, 2010
When we were in a LDR, I was perfectly fine on my own, seeing him whenever we had the chance. He was the one to feel like we weren't close enough during that first separation, this with his best friend getting married and moving away after 4 years of best-friend-dom, he was lonely. He doesn't seem to understand the long-term consequences of wanting to have a relationship and still be in the army, hasn't done this before. He just knows that we have a lot of fun together. In some ways he's very mature, and yet in others he's still got a long ways to go, which is proving unexpected.
I reacted too strongly to this situation, and it scared him. I think it requires some discussion that yes my feelings were hurt, but it's not something to run away from. I'm willing to forgive him for hurting me unintentionally, so long as he's ok with talking about it a bit to get over it. It should never be "my way or the high way" - he can make decisions for himself, I would just like to be considered during the decision-making process.
posted by lizbunny at 12:34 PM on December 2, 2010
Best answer: I've made a rule of thumb for myself about relationships. Obviously there are always times when one person carries more of the weight, especially in long term commited relationships (this isn't one of those, by the way, but you alone are clearly acting like it is) If you find that you're always pulling the weight, that's a problem. Who initiates being together? Who initiates talks about the future? Who initiates displays of affection? Who makes sacrifices, whether life changing big or day to day small? My rule of thumb is that I will put myself out there and even put more out of myself out there than the other person but not more than 110-150%. It's a gutcheck and not scorekeeping. If I'm carrying the weight more than that it's time to pull back. Unintuitively, pulling back can sometimes lead to renewed attraction but when it doesn't, it opens the door for other people to enter your life or old friends to pop back up.
You might want to take some time and invest more energy in your friendships right now.
Meanwhile, a candid conversation without judgement or ultimatums might help convince you that you two have different values. "I heard from you the other day that you really value your job and you're excited to go on this new mission. When you said that you will continue to make mistakes and hurt me, what I heard is that your job wi always come first. Is that right?" If no, listen closely and continue to actively check that you understand correctly. If yes, "I value relationships like our's more highly it sounds like. We're obviously different in how we rank these values. That's okay. I'd like to know where I fit in. I'm doubting my decision to move to be with you and would like more information to help me decide."
posted by Skwirl at 12:39 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
You might want to take some time and invest more energy in your friendships right now.
Meanwhile, a candid conversation without judgement or ultimatums might help convince you that you two have different values. "I heard from you the other day that you really value your job and you're excited to go on this new mission. When you said that you will continue to make mistakes and hurt me, what I heard is that your job wi always come first. Is that right?" If no, listen closely and continue to actively check that you understand correctly. If yes, "I value relationships like our's more highly it sounds like. We're obviously different in how we rank these values. That's okay. I'd like to know where I fit in. I'm doubting my decision to move to be with you and would like more information to help me decide."
posted by Skwirl at 12:39 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: He's also sent me a message saying he's taking things very seriously, and thus wasn't ready to answer me yesterday night. Like I've asked him to, he's been talking with other friends and his padre to gain some perspective. So we will see. I find it encouraging he's willing to think about it.
posted by lizbunny at 12:45 PM on December 2, 2010
posted by lizbunny at 12:45 PM on December 2, 2010
No one ever "doubts their own capacity to commit".
Wrong. There are tons of relationship commitmentphobes out there, of both sexes. They're really a bad risk to try to have relationships with. You can get so caught up in trying to be the Really Special Person they make an exception for and it rarely happens. It sounds like this guy has a pattern of noncommittal relationships. If he says he's going to keep making mistakes and hurting you, it's because he's noticed he has a pattern of mishandling relationships and hurting people.
Once again I'm going to recommend BaggageReclaim, a no-nonsense guide to dealing with the emotionally unavailable partner -- which usually means walking away because you are worth more and deserve better.
This man is committed to his career above all. You sound entirely too ready to change your whole life around for him, but if he's not equally ready to do the same for you, rip off the Band-Aid and move on. Sounds harsh, but if I'd known that years ago then I could have saved myself years of heartache with someone very similar to your boyfriend.
posted by xenophile at 1:00 PM on December 2, 2010
Wrong. There are tons of relationship commitmentphobes out there, of both sexes. They're really a bad risk to try to have relationships with. You can get so caught up in trying to be the Really Special Person they make an exception for and it rarely happens. It sounds like this guy has a pattern of noncommittal relationships. If he says he's going to keep making mistakes and hurting you, it's because he's noticed he has a pattern of mishandling relationships and hurting people.
Once again I'm going to recommend BaggageReclaim, a no-nonsense guide to dealing with the emotionally unavailable partner -- which usually means walking away because you are worth more and deserve better.
This man is committed to his career above all. You sound entirely too ready to change your whole life around for him, but if he's not equally ready to do the same for you, rip off the Band-Aid and move on. Sounds harsh, but if I'd known that years ago then I could have saved myself years of heartache with someone very similar to your boyfriend.
posted by xenophile at 1:00 PM on December 2, 2010
Walk away. You don't want this if you can't deal with separations.
He is committed to his career. Anyone who wants to be committed to him needs to be able to roll with that. People in the military are a different breed, and if he has stayed in that long and plans to keep in, that's just the way it is.
My army town is full of bad marriages and divorces, with all sorts of broken hearts to go round. And even for those in love who are totally committed to each other, it's hard as heck.
If you can't deal with this, break up.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:07 PM on December 2, 2010
He is committed to his career. Anyone who wants to be committed to him needs to be able to roll with that. People in the military are a different breed, and if he has stayed in that long and plans to keep in, that's just the way it is.
My army town is full of bad marriages and divorces, with all sorts of broken hearts to go round. And even for those in love who are totally committed to each other, it's hard as heck.
If you can't deal with this, break up.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:07 PM on December 2, 2010
It should never be "my way or the high way" - he can make decisions for himself, I would just like to be considered during the decision-making process.
The problem is that you're asking for way too much, way too soon. Effectively, you've only been in this relationship for a few months. That's too soon for you to expect to figure in to his decision making process. Why should he give up the chance for a great adventure for an unstable relationship? It wouldn't make any sense. You said that in theory you would move for him at some future date if things were going well -- but that's at some future date, not right now now. It's just plain inappropriate to expect that he will center major career choices he's making right now around such a new, unstable relationship.
posted by yarly at 3:17 PM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
The problem is that you're asking for way too much, way too soon. Effectively, you've only been in this relationship for a few months. That's too soon for you to expect to figure in to his decision making process. Why should he give up the chance for a great adventure for an unstable relationship? It wouldn't make any sense. You said that in theory you would move for him at some future date if things were going well -- but that's at some future date, not right now now. It's just plain inappropriate to expect that he will center major career choices he's making right now around such a new, unstable relationship.
posted by yarly at 3:17 PM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: We talked candidly tonight, and it went very well. Made it clear we're both serious about this relationship and each other, and wouldn't be in it otherwise. He dragged out all the issues into the open and we discussed them, and then talked some more. I feel like I can relax and open up to him now, I don't have to be hesitant to talk with him.
He's opposed to going to that one base nearby for personal reasons, fair enough - it's him that has to be there, not me. I'm ok with him going somewhere else because we've addressed the communication and commitment issues, and if things go awry we will talk, not hide. He knows I respect his career choice and the obligations that entails, and haven't/wouldn't ask him to choose something else.
We're ok, and I feel childish for reacting that way yesterday. No need for such insecurity.
posted by lizbunny at 10:53 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
He's opposed to going to that one base nearby for personal reasons, fair enough - it's him that has to be there, not me. I'm ok with him going somewhere else because we've addressed the communication and commitment issues, and if things go awry we will talk, not hide. He knows I respect his career choice and the obligations that entails, and haven't/wouldn't ask him to choose something else.
We're ok, and I feel childish for reacting that way yesterday. No need for such insecurity.
posted by lizbunny at 10:53 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
I reacted too strongly to this situation, and it scared him.
We're ok, and I feel childish for reacting that way yesterday.
This strikes me as a huge red flag. Not only are you caving on him needing to consider you and compromise (you'll move for him, but he can pick the most remote training spot available?), but it's your fault that you felt that way.
Didn't you say that you needed him to show more commitment? What happened to that?
posted by J. Wilson at 5:56 AM on December 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
We're ok, and I feel childish for reacting that way yesterday.
This strikes me as a huge red flag. Not only are you caving on him needing to consider you and compromise (you'll move for him, but he can pick the most remote training spot available?), but it's your fault that you felt that way.
Didn't you say that you needed him to show more commitment? What happened to that?
posted by J. Wilson at 5:56 AM on December 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
We're ok, and I feel childish for reacting that way yesterday. No need for such insecurity.
Um, no. Sorry. That "childish insecurity" is your natural sense of emotional self-preservation. Dismiss it at your own peril. Your emotional side is trying to prevent a train wreck.
posted by Citrus at 10:30 AM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Um, no. Sorry. That "childish insecurity" is your natural sense of emotional self-preservation. Dismiss it at your own peril. Your emotional side is trying to prevent a train wreck.
posted by Citrus at 10:30 AM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
"He said he's going to keep making these mistakes and hurting me."
Believe what people tell you about themselves.
I'd like to respectfually object to this conclusion that many people in the post have come to. If, in a spell of insecurity, I say to my beloved, "I'm a terrible, worthless person and I'll never come to any good," is it fair for my beloved to make a mental note to themselves saying, "Believe what people tell you about themselves; she'll never come to any good -- she's terrible and worthless."
Who hasn't had these thoughts about themselves before? Who hasn't expressed such insecurities? Just because I may think, at times, "I'm the worst person who ever lived," does that make it true? And if I say it, am I "telling [someone] about [myself]" or just worrying, being self-deprecating, feeling low?
posted by PersonAndSalt at 10:42 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Believe what people tell you about themselves.
I'd like to respectfually object to this conclusion that many people in the post have come to. If, in a spell of insecurity, I say to my beloved, "I'm a terrible, worthless person and I'll never come to any good," is it fair for my beloved to make a mental note to themselves saying, "Believe what people tell you about themselves; she'll never come to any good -- she's terrible and worthless."
Who hasn't had these thoughts about themselves before? Who hasn't expressed such insecurities? Just because I may think, at times, "I'm the worst person who ever lived," does that make it true? And if I say it, am I "telling [someone] about [myself]" or just worrying, being self-deprecating, feeling low?
posted by PersonAndSalt at 10:42 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: That "childish insecurity" is your natural sense of emotional self-preservation.
It still needs a reality check once in a while. I wouldn't have advised someone else to start things off with an ultimatum, yet I did. That kind of "my way or the highway" threat is something to resort to after I'm left with no other choice, when prior discussions have failed to get my S.O. to see how important something is to me. And he reminded me of that - my feelings were valid, but I didn't have to start off with such emotionally violent tactics. Start with conversations (tear-filled if need be), not fights.
Didn't you say that you needed him to show more commitment? What happened to that?
He's generally been far more attentive, engaging and affectionate since our talk, which has improved my feeling of being valued by him and my sense of his commitment. I'd say it's both a result of his improvements in specific things I've requested, and we feel far more comfortable with eachother now after having opened up about things.
And he's chosen the course at the base closest to me, as it turns out. Additional factors and time to think about it were what pushed it into favor.
posted by lizbunny at 3:19 PM on December 6, 2010
It still needs a reality check once in a while. I wouldn't have advised someone else to start things off with an ultimatum, yet I did. That kind of "my way or the highway" threat is something to resort to after I'm left with no other choice, when prior discussions have failed to get my S.O. to see how important something is to me. And he reminded me of that - my feelings were valid, but I didn't have to start off with such emotionally violent tactics. Start with conversations (tear-filled if need be), not fights.
Didn't you say that you needed him to show more commitment? What happened to that?
He's generally been far more attentive, engaging and affectionate since our talk, which has improved my feeling of being valued by him and my sense of his commitment. I'd say it's both a result of his improvements in specific things I've requested, and we feel far more comfortable with eachother now after having opened up about things.
And he's chosen the course at the base closest to me, as it turns out. Additional factors and time to think about it were what pushed it into favor.
posted by lizbunny at 3:19 PM on December 6, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
I couldn't read any further than this. It sounds like this guy isn't really that into you.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on December 2, 2010 [17 favorites]